| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
24 Jan 2008 03:26:50 AM |
| Object: |
Shake, Ratte and Roll! |
In the fourth century, Chrysostom wrote regarding the
fulfillment of the Olivet prophecy, and his perception
that the destruction of Jerusalem was God's judgment
on the Jews:
"For I will ask them, Did He send the prophets and wise men?
Did they slay them in their synagogue? Was their house left
desolate? Did all the vengeance come upon that generation?
It is quite plain that it was so, and no man gainsays it."
(Homily LXXIV, Sec. 3, A.D.347)
Note: "no man gainsays it".
The above also references Matthew 23:29-28
Athanasius (A.D. 340) wrote (and note the phrase,
"since the coming of our Savior):
"Now observe; that city, since the coming of our Savior,
has had an end, and all the land of the Jews has been
laid waste; so that from the testimony of these things
(and we need no further proof, being assured by our
own eyes of the fact) there must, of necessity, be an
end of the shadow. For as soon as these things were
done, everything was finished, for the altar was broken,
and the veil of the temple was rent; and although the
city was not yet laid waste, the abomination was ready
to sit in the midst of the temple, and the city and those
ancient ordinances to receive their final consummation."
(Athanasius, Festal Letters, VIII)
Note: "everything was finished".
Look at the following Scripture...
Luke 21:20-22
20) And when ye shall see JERUSALEM compassed with
armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21) Then let them which are IN JUDEA flee to the mountains;
and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and
let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22) For *THESE* be the days of vengeance, that *ALL*
THINGS which are WRITTEN may BE FULFILLED.
Jesus said ALL THING WRITTEN would be FULFILLED
at THAT POINT.
And in 70 AD, the Romans burned the Temple and afterward,
tore it apart, stone by stone, to retrieve the melted gold
that ran in between the stones, thereby fulfilling Jesus'
words to the letter (Matthew 24:2).
Note also above, "an end of the shadow".
Now see...
Colossians 2:16-17
1) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink,
or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of
the sabbath days:
2) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body
is of Christ.
This is what he was referring to. He knew it was the
old covenant system that Jesus was talking about and
the judgment upon Jerusalem and the removal of that
system.
Paul here states it as future to him "things to come".
But Athanasius states it as something in the past to him.
It was fulfilled.
Note also, the abomination was ready to be in the temple,
just before this happened, etc..
And when the Romans conquered Jerusalem, they took their
standards and set them up in the East Gate (the East Gate
is where God enters) and they performed sacrifices there.
There is your, "abomination of desolation". Remember,
Jesus told the Christians to flee and FYI, they did flee,
just before the Roman armies reached Jerusalem.
Reread Luke 21:20-22 above and see what Jesus said to do.
The Roman standard had the eagle on it. What did Jesus say?
"For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles
be gathered together." - Matthew 24:28
There are examples of church fathers who believed that
Christ had yet to return. But this idea that what I believe
is some new heretical doctrine, is a false claim and what
I believe is consistent with how many church fathers
viewed the destruction of Jerusalem and it is consistent
with the words of Scripture.
Did you know that in the NT, in the original Greek, even
including Revelation, that there is not one word there,
that speaks of a planet wide destruction? It may read
that way in some English translations, but in the original
Greek, the word for the planet was "kosmos" (used in
Matthew 13:35 and other places) and that word is not
used at all, when describing the coming destruction that
the NT speaks of. It always limits it to a specific region.
We should also remember that the word "see" is not always
used in the ocular sense in the Scriptures and in Rev 1:7,
folks like to say that "every eye will see Him", but they
don't continue on and quote the rest of the verse, which
says, "AND THEY ALSO WHICH PIERCED HIM". Now
since there is NO DOUBT that Christ comes and THEN
the resurrection occurs, those who pierced Him had to
STILL BE ALIVE when He returned!
Jesus used the example of "lightning, shining from the
east to the west". Remember, God enters from the east.
The thing about lightning that shines in the sky, from
east to west, is that it has not touched the ground!
Otherwise, is would be a bolt that came down, not
a flash that lit up the whole sky, from east to west!
This lightning is symbolic and if we read through our
Scriptures, including the Old Testament, we will find
that God used this terminology often to express His
using a people who used the sword (flash of the sword)
for judgment against a nation.
We should also note the following passage, which shows
that the "coming in the clouds" statement is also symbolic
of God's presence in judgment and should not be taken as
Christ literally and bodily riding a cloud, like a cowboy.
Now unless someone can show me where, in history,
it is stated that God literally rode a cloud and it is
recorded, they have no grounds for saying to me,
"Oh yea?! When did THIS happen?!", while pointing
to Matthew 24:30, since the passage I am going to quote,
is a FULFILLED PROPHECY regarding when God used
the Assyrians to conquer Egypt, which they did do.
"The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift
cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt
shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall
melt in the midst of it." - Isaiah 19:1
And no, someone's bad interpretation of some other
passage, does not negate the fact that Scripture does
interpret Scripture, especially like Scriptures. It is not
proper to see statements throughout Scripture that
speak of God's presence in judgment against a nation,
which He would judge by using another nation and
then claim that Jesus, whom we call God, was somehow
speaking to Jews and yet, changed up the rules of
language and how God spoke to them!
Or did God also literally ride horses?
"O Lord, were You displeased with the rivers,
Was Your anger against the rivers, was Your
wrath against the sea, that You rode on Your
horses, your chariots of salvation? Your bow
was made quite ready; Oaths were sworn over
Your arrows." - Habakkuk 3:8-9
Or did God literally shake heaven and earth in
the days of Zerubabbel?
Now note the "end times" type language, that ignorant
Futurists claim is all about them! The only problem
for them here, is v23!
Haggai 2:20-23
20) And again the word of the LORD came to Haggai
on the twenty-fourth day of the month, saying,
21) Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying:
I will shake heaven and earth.
22) I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms;
I will destroy the strength of the Gentile kingdoms.
I will overthrow the chariots
and those who ride in them;
The horses and their riders shall come down,
every one by the sword of his brother.
23) In that day, says the LORD of hosts, I will take you,
Zerubbabel My servant, the son of Shealtiel, says
the Lord, and will make you like a signet ring;
for I have chosen you, says the Lord of hosts.
Now gee, I wonder... Given that the phrase "heaven
and earth is often used in Scripture to note kingdoms
and even the Mosaic economy (actually read the OT,
people!), could it be this same type of symbolic language
that the writer of Hebrews was noting, in regard to
what was to be removed, which was the Mosaic system?
Is it possible for Futurists to comprehend this, especially
given how he starts off?
Hebrews 12:23-27
23) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and
to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than
that of Abel.
25) See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they
escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much
more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that
speaketh from heaven:
26) Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath
promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth
only, but also heaven.
27) And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing
of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made,
that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Things that are made, are hand built. Thus the Lord says;
"What house will ye build Me?"
Now since He says, "once more", it stands to reason that
He's done it before, amen? Now read Haggai again.
St. Athanasius: "Now, however, that the devil, that tyrant
against the whole world, is slain, we do not approach a
temporal feast, my beloved, but an eternal and heavenly.
Not in shadows do we shew it forth, but we come to it in
truth. For they being filled with the flesh of a dumb lamb,
accomplished the feast, and having anointed their door-posts
with the blood, implored aid against the destroyer. For
no more does death reign; but instead of death henceforth
is life, since our Lord said, 'I am the life;' so that
everything is filled with joy and gladness; as it is
written, 'The Lord reigneth, let the earth rejoice.'
For when death reigned, 'sitting down by the rivers of
Babylon, we wept,' and mourned, because we felt the
bitterness of captivity; but now that death and the kingdom
of the devil is abolished, everything is entirely filled
with joy and gladness. And God is no longer known only
in Judaea, but in all the earth, 'their voice hath gone
forth, and the knowledge of Him hath filled all the earth.'
(Letter 256, Part 3)
I have proved that many of these so called "church fathers"
did believe that Christ returned in 70 AD, that death had
been conquered, that the abomination of desolation and
Daniel's 70 weeks were fulfilled, etc., etc.. But those who
demanded to see this evidence, now run away from it
and lie and claim it never happened, so that they can
cower away and renege on their word, in which they
promised to admit they were wrong, when they said that
no "church father" believed these things.
Now one can agree, or disagree with them, but the point
is, what they said in the quotes I provided, proves that
my belief goes back father than the Dispy doctrine.
Agreed that many of them also believed in a future to
them, physically literal return of Christ, but at best,
that makes them Partial Preterists, not Dispensational
Futurists! And I find it humorous that these Futurists
would scoff at me, pretending that quoting them
speaking of a future to them return, negates what
I quoted about a 70 AD return, thereby attempting
to pit them against themselves, while all the while,
that very same Futurist who does this, believes in
multiple comings of the Lord and a rapture, in which
Jesus supposedly comes invisibly! And yet, I am to
be his whipping post, because I say that Jesus returned
in 70 AD and they didn't physically, literally see Him
riding a cloud?!? How do you spell "H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E-S"?!?
I believe that Jesus returned. And I believe He spoke
of only one return. You can agree, or disagree, but
it won't change my belief, nor the fact that Jesus
Himself never once spoke of multiple returns and
that is being read into the writings of the Apostles,
as if they somehow trump Jesus. (:
There is more to see also...
Historical evidence of the return of Jesus being the
judgment on Jerusalem and the surrounding area.
Heavenly phenomena:
* A star resembling a sword
* A comet (Halley's Comet)
* A bright light shining around the altar and the temple
* A vision of chariots and soldiers running around
among the clouds and all cities of Palestine.
Earthly phenomena (reported by priests)
* A quaking
* A great noise
* The sounds of a great multitude saying,
"Let us remove hence."
Read the testimonies and get more detailed information at
the following link...
http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/chariots-in-clouds.html
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
The Last Days were in the first century:
Revelation 1:1,3
1) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God
gave unto him, to show unto his servants things
WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS;
and he sent and signified it by his angel unto
his servant John:
2) Who bare record of the word of God, and of
the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things
that he saw.
3) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear
the words of this prophecy, and keep those things
which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.
--
Exchange between Marge and Geoffrey the butler
on "Fresh Prince" (both African American):
Marge: "My brother, you have been oppressed,
repressed and suppressed. Don't you know
you can be free?"
Geoffrey: "I have known freedom. I don't like
the health plan."
.
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