Religions > Bible > Should Women Keep Silence in the Church? (Revised)
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bible Bob" |
| Date: |
19 Sep 2006 12:38:38 PM |
| Object: |
Should Women Keep Silence in the Church? (Revised) |
Should Women Keep Silence In The Church?
Revised September 19, 2006
There are those who teach that women should not be allowed to teach
the Word of God and that they should keep silence in the church. This
can not be true because God is not a respecter of persons, because
women are ambassadors for Christ, women have been given the ministry
and word of reconciliation, because women have authority to utilize
the manifestations of the spirit, because there are women prophets and
a prophet is a spokesperson for God, etc. . To deny a woman what God
has ordained her to do is wrong because it is contrary to the word of
God, because it prevents her from earning eternal rewards, and because
it robs the body of Christ of her God given abilities.
Any male member of the body of Christ who prevents a female in the
body of Christ from doing what God has called her to do sins against
God, against the Lord Jesus Christ, and against the body of Christ.
Any female member of the body of Christ who prevents a female in the
body of Christ from doing what God has called her to do sins against
God, against the Lord Jesus Christ, and against the body of Christ.
God is not a respecter of persons. The one that doeth wrong shall
receive for the wrong. Sin against God, the Lord Jesus Christ and the
body of Christ is wrong. Therefore, those who desire to please God
should set aside their prejudices and learn what the will of God
concerning women in the church really is. Anyone who has been a child
of God more than a few minutes knows that there are false doctrines
taught by the denominations. The antichrist doctrine that prevents
women from doing what they were called to do is one of those false
doctrines which is based on the oral traditions of men that have been
given preeminence over the word of God.
The following verses say the God is not a respecter of persons.
Act 10:34 KJV
Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that
God is no respecter of persons:
Eph 6:9 KJV
And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening:
knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect
of persons with him.
Col 3:25 KJV
But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath
done: and there is no respect of persons.
Jam 2:1 KJV
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, [the Lord]
of glory, with respect of persons.
Jam 2:9 KJV
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of
the law as transgressors.
1Pe 1:17 KJV
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth
according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here]
in fear:
Not only does the Word of God say that God is not a respecter of
persons, it also says that those who do have respect of persons commit
sin and are convinced of the law as transgressors. Our Father, who
without respect of persons, judgeth according to every man's work. God
does not respect persons, but conditions. Those who meet the
conditions for rewards are rewarded and those who do not meet the
conditions are not rewarded.
Galatians 3:25-29 KJV
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a
schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on
Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs
according to the promise.
All members of the church of God are children of God. There is
neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is
neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ. We are all
heirs according to the promise. We all share with Christ. We were
called to be one; not two or many in the one body of Christ.
Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk
worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one
another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one
hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and
in you all.
We are called to be one as God is one and Christ is one. In every
case in the above verses the word "one" is translated from the
masculine or feminine forms of "eis"; one, the first cardinal numeral,
the emphatic one, even one, one single. The Greek "eis" has three
genders; "eis" (masculine), "mia" (feminine), and "tis" (neuter).
Gender is a classification of nouns, pronouns, and modifiers. The
classification may be masculine, feminine, or neuter in the Greek; or
just masculine and feminine in the Hebrew. Above, body, Spirit, Lord,
baptism, and God masculine while hope and faith are feminine. The
"one" in "every one of us" in the next verse is the masculine "eis".
Ephesians 4:7 KJV
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of
the gift of Christ.
God's grace (which is God's divine favor) is given to every single one
(male or female) according to the measure (Gr. metron, by implication
a limited portion) of the gift of Christ. Male and females get the
same portion because God is not a respecter of persons.
We are reading from Ephesians Four which is on the practical
application side of the book. The first three chapters tell us what
God did through Christ for us and the last three chapters tell what
and how we are to do what God called us to do (male and female).
Verse four-one tells us to "walk worthy" of the calling and the verses
that follow continue that topic.
Ephesians 4:7-11 KJV
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of
the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity
captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first
into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all
heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some,
evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Notice that verses nine and ten are a parenthesis. Words within
parenthesis in the King James Version of the Bible may be a
representation of the figure of speech Parenthesis (from "para,"
beside, and "entithenai," to put or place in). It is an addition by
way of explanation that is complete in itself. The figure is used
when a word or sentence is inserted which is necessary to explain the
context. As to grammar, the context is complete without it, but not
as to clearness and sense (p.470, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible
by E. W, Bullinger). The failure to pay attention to parenthesis (and
the failure of the editors to mark them) has caused no small amount of
misunderstanding. For example, Romans 9:1 through Romans 11:36 is a
parenthesis that is nor marked as such in most Bibles. That means
that to understand the context of Romans 12:1 a person must read
Romans 8 and then Romans 12. Above, verses nine and ten explain verse
eight.
When we read verse 11, we read verse 8 and then verse 11 so that the
gifts given unto men are some apostles, and some prophets, and some
evangelists, and some pastors (shepherds), and teachers. Notice that
the word "some" (translated from the definite article) precedes all
but "teachers." Apostles, prophets, evangelists, and shepherds are
all teachers. By the way, the word "pastor" is translated from
"poimen;" a shepherd (literally or figuratively). The word is used 18
times in the New Testament. This is the only place it is translated
"pastor" and the only occurrence of the word "pastor" in the New
Testament. What we call a "pastor" is what God calls a "shepherd."
Some say that women can not be pastors; shepherds. Does the word of
God say that? No. Contextually, an apostle, prophet, evangelist, or
shepherd may be male or female.
Verse eight says that Christ gave gifts unto "men" where the word
"men" is translated from "anthropos." The gifts that were given to
"men" are named in verse eleven. Does that mean that only "males" are
to benefit from the gifts of Christ? No. The word "anthropos" speaks
about mankind without regard to gender. Both men and women benefit
from the gifts. Both men and women can be the gifts.
A woman who is prevented from performing service to the body of Christ
is not able to earn rewards that her male counterparts are able to
earn because they are not given the opportunity to do so. Christians
are saved by grace. However, eternal rewards are earned by works
performed in service to the body of Christ. Women who are deprived of
the opportunity to serve the body are prevented from earning eternal
rewards. Also, the body of Christ is denied what the woman is able to
supply.
I have read comments by people who blame the Apostle Paul for saying
that women cannot be apostles, prophets, evangelists, or shepherds.
Paul did not say any such thing. The Apostle Paul spoke to the church
by revelation from Jesus Christ which is to say that what Paul spoke
were the words provided by Jesus Christ (Gal 1:12). Jesus Christ did
not preclude women from service to the body; neither did the Apostle
Paul who spoke for Jesus Christ. The reason that people misunderstand
the different sayings of Christ and Paul is because they refuse to
consider "to whom" the two spoke. Christ spoke directly to the lost
sheep of the house of Israel prior to his ascension; then to the
church of God through the apostles and prophets beginning at
Pentecost. There are three classifications of people in the Bible,
Jews, Gentiles, and church of God. A Jew or Gentile that becomes a
child of God is a member of the church of God which is the body of
Christ that live during the dispensation of grace (Eph 3:2) which
began on Pentecost. Those that live between Pentecost and the Parusia
are saved by grace. Those that lived before Pentecost were not saved
by grace because it was not available until it became available on
Pentecost. There are no contradictions between what Christ and Paul
taught because Christ taught it all to different groups of people
during different dispensations.
This "policy" of discriminating against women has been around for
centuries. Think about it. How many millions of women have been
prevented from earning eternal rewards. How many millions of members
of the body of Christ have been denied service and how many millions
of people may not have been saved because women are not allowed to
serve the body of Christ?
The policy existed before the King James Bible was published but for
the sake of illustration let's use a starting date of 1611 when the
KJV Bible was published. How many Christian women have lived since
the year 1611? How many members have been added to the body of Christ
since 1611? How many of the members could have been helped by a woman
had she been allowed to help? How many women have been unable to earn
eternal rewards because they were not allowed to serve? How many
people have lived since the year 1611?
Let's examine the passages used to deprive women of the opportunity to
serve the body of Christ. We will see that these verses are speaking
about specific women in specific circumstances and not to women as
gender.
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
1Ti 2:11 KJV
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 KJV
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the
man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 KJV
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 KJV
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the
transgression.
1Ti 2:15 KJV
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue
in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
We need to understand a very important word before we continue our
study. The word that we need to study is "man." In English we use
the word "man" to refer to a male person or to a human person that can
include women or children when it is used to mean "mankind." The New
Testament was translated from Greek and there are many different words
translated "man" in the Greek. Sometimes "man" is the translation of
the masculine of adjectives or nouns, etc. When it is the translation
of a separate Greek word it is one of the following.
(1) anthropos - an individual of the human race, a man or a woman.
(2) aner - a man, an adult male person, a man in sex and in age.
(3) tis - one, some one, a certain one.
(4) arren - male, of the male sex.
(5) arsen - male, of the male sex.
(6) teleios - what has reached its end, persons of full age, full
grown.
(7) oudies - not any one
In he Bible the word "man" is often put for both sexes, men and
women, by the figure of speech Synecdoche of the Species where words
of a limited and special sense are used with a wider and more
universal meaning p. 624, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible
Explained and Illustrated, by E W Bullinger.
The translators of the KJV were very liberal with the masculine
English pronouns and nouns, maybe a little too liberal. Below is the
verse that people use to say that women are to keep silent in the
church. Does the verse say "women keep silence in the church?" Yes
it does say "Let your women keep silence in the churches, for it not
permitted unto them to speak, etc."
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
Apparent contradictions in the Word of God come from only two sources
or a combination of both. An apparent contradiction stems from either
error in translation or error in understanding. The first step to
understanding what the Word of God says is to read the words in the
Word in context. We will begin at the start of the chapter. Please
note that the words in brackets "[ ]" are the words in italics in the
King James Version of the Bible. They were placed in italics to tell
us that the words were added by the writers of the King James Version.
It was often necessary to "add" words due to the different structures
of the Greek and English languages or when the figure Ellipsis is
used. The words "they are commanded" were added by the translators
and are not needed for the sense.
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
1Co 14:34 KJV (without italics)
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
The words were not needed to translate the sense of the verse. They
were added by the translators for some other purpose. Below is the
English word for word translation of the verse from a Greek
Interlinear.
"Your women in the assemblies let them be silent for it is not
allowed to them to speak but to be in subjection according as also the
law says."
Let's examine the verse in the context.
1Co 14:1 KJV
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye
may prophesy.
The "ye" refers men and women of the church who were Gentiles.
1Co 14:2 KJV
For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but
unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he
speaketh mysteries.
The words "he that speaketh" and "he speaketh" are translated from the
verb "laleo" which does not include the masculine pronoun. The
pronoun was supplied by the translators without placing "he" in
italics. The word "men" is "anthropos" means humans. The word "man"
is from "oudice", and means "not anyone." Therefore, a more accurate
rendering of the verse would be:
For [one] speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto humans, but unto God;
for not anyone understandeth; howbeit in the spirit [one] speaketh
mysteries.
Here is how other versions translate the verse:
1Co 14:2 NASB
For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for
no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.
1Co 14:2 RSV
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no
one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1Co 14:2 ISV
For the person who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to
God. Indeed, no one understands him, because he is speaking secrets in
the Spirit.
1Co 14:3 KJV
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and
exhortation, and comfort.
The pronoun "he" was added by the translators without italics. The
word "men" is from "anthropos" and means humans. The NASB translates
it as follows, translating "anthropos" as men to represent the human
species.
1Co 14:3 NASB
But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation
and consolation.
1Co 14:4 KJV
He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that
prophesieth edifieth the church.
The pronouns "he" should be in italics because there are no pronouns
with the Greek verbs. The NASB supplies the neuter "one" in place of
"he".
1Co 14:4 NASB
One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies
edifies the church.
1Co 14:5 KJV
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied:
for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with
tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
The pronouns "he" should be in italics because there are no pronouns
with the Greek verbs. The NASB replaces "he" with "one" to show that
it is neuter.
1Co 14:5 NASB
Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would
prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in
tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive
edifying.
1Co 14:6 KJV
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I
profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by
knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:7 KJV
And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp,
except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known
what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 KJV
For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself
to the battle?
1Co 14:9 KJV
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be
understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak
into the air.
1Co 14:10 KJV
There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none
of them [is] without signification.
1Co 14:11 KJV
Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him
that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian
unto me.
The NASB supplies "one" in lieu of "he" to show the statement is
neuter.
1Co 14:11 NASB
If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the
one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian
to me.
1Co 14:12 KJV
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek
that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
1Co 14:13 KJV
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he
may interpret.
"Him" is supplied by translator with the verb. The NASB corrects the
problem with "him" but leaves "he" which is not in he Greek text.
The problem here is two theologies. One group says that the person
that speaks in a tongue does the interpreting and the other groups
says a different person supplies the interpretation. In the NASB the
"he" is added to refer back to the one who speaks and so even though a
masculine pronoun is used it is used in a neuter sense because it
relates to the neuter "one".
1Co 14:13 NASB
Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 KJV
For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my
understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 KJV
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the
understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with
the understanding also.
1Co 14:16 KJV
Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that
occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks,
seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Co 14:17 KJV
For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Co 14:18 KJV
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 KJV
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding,
that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words
in an [unknown] tongue.
1Co 14:20 KJV
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye
children, but in understanding be men.
The word "men" from "teleios" means that which has reached its end,
its full age, old people male or female. It means "in understanding
be adults."
1Co 14:21 KJV
In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips
will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear
me, saith the Lord.
The translators added "[men of]" which should not be there because it
reads "with other tongues and other lips will I" speak. God can not
speak with tongues and lips because He doesn't have any. The point
is that God's words are released through the tongues and lips of His
children.
1Co 14:22 KJV
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to
them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that
believe not, but for them which believe.
1Co 14:23 KJV
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all
speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or
unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
Who comprises the whole church? Men and women comprise the whole
church. And we are talking about what is decent and in order.
1Co 14:24 KJV
But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or
[one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
1Co 14:25 KJV
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling
down on [his] face he will worship God, and report that God is in you
of a truth.
1Co 14:26 KJV
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath
a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an
interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 KJV
If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the
most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret.
"If any man" is "If any one" from "tis".
1Co 14:28 KJV
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church;
and let him speak to himself, and to God.
The pronouns "him" is added to the translation of the verb. So the
text reads, But if there be no interpreter, keep silence in the
church.
1Co 14:29 KJV
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
Who are the prophets? Men and women with gift ministries. A prophet
is one who speaks for God. Men and woman are ordained by God to be
prophets. So why would a woman prophet whose job it is to speak for
God keep her mouth shut? Are there women prophets? Yes they are
called prophetesses and there eight verses that speak of them Exo
15:20; Jdg 4:4; 2Ki 22:14; 2Ch 34:22; Neh 6:14; Isa 8:3; Luk 2:36; Rev
2:20 as true or false prophetesses. Were there women that spoke for
God before Christ? Yes. Were there women that spoke for God after
the ascension? Yes. Do women still speak for God? Yes. What are
they called? Prophetesses. If you want to follow a pecking order;
then apostles, prophets, evangelists, and shepherds is the order of
rank. If a woman can be a prophet or an evangelist; why can she not
be a shepherd? Because men say so? Not good enough. What does God
say? Children of God obey God; not men. Moses was a prophet and his
prophet was Aaron. Aaron's sister Miriam was a prophetess that spoke
for God (Ex 15:20,21). A prophet is a man of God. A prophetess is a
woman of God. Deborah was a prophetess and a judge; a woman of God
that spoke for God (Jdg 4:4). Esther was a prophetess that spoke for
God (Est 9:32). Elisabeth the wife of Zacharias and a daughter of
Aaron was a prophetess that spoke for God (Luke 1). The four
daughters of Philip the evangelist were prophetesses that did prophesy
for God telling Paul not to go to Jerusalem (Acts 21). So, there were
prophetesses before Christ and after Christ. A prophetess is a female
prophet. A prophet is one who speaks for God; a man or woman of God.
If a woman can be a prophet; why not a shepherd? Aquila and Priscilla
were a husband and wife team of evangelists who had a church in their
own home, who were helpers of Paul and who expounded the word more
perfectly to Appolos. If a woman can be an evangelist; why not a
shepherd?
The only reason that women are not allowed to serve the body is
because Satan working through men and women has prevented them from
doing what God called them to do via false doctrines of men.
Depriving women of the opportunity to be what God called them to be is
sin promulgated by Satan. Who do you want to follow; Christ or Satan?
1Co 14:30 KJV
If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first
hold his peace.
"His" is another translation of the verb.
1Co 14:31 KJV
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be
comforted.
Verse 31 says that "all" may prophesy and includes women.
1Co 14:32 KJV
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
The spirits of the men and women prophets are subject to the men and
women prophets.
1Co 14:33 KJV
For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all
churches of the saints.
God is not only not of confusion, but of peace, in all the churches of
the saints and does not prohibit women who serve gift ministries from
speaking.
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
What word is the word "women" translated from? The Greek word is
"gune" and means "woman, a wife". The wives of the prophets are to
keep silent. Verse 35 confirms that these were wives because it says
they are to ask their husbands at home.
1Co 14:35 KJV
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home:
for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36 KJV
What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37 KJV
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him
acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments
of the Lord.
The words "any man" is "any one" from "tis" and are neuter
1Co 14:38 KJV
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
The words "any man" are any one from "tis" are neuter. The word "him"
is part of the translation of the verb.
1Co 14:39 KJV
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with
tongues.
1Co 14:40 KJV
Let all things be done decently and in order.
You can use the same methods to follow gender in the twelfth and
thirteen chapters and get the same results.
We will now examine he verses in First Timothy. Remember, the Word of
God has to be read in context. Remember, too, that the Greek word
translated "woman" is "gune" and means woman, wife while the word that
means "female" is "thelus" as in Rom 1:26,27.
God wrote through Paul to Timothy, the man of God, a prophet and
begins the chapter exhorting people to pray followed by the statement
that He would have all men saved and come unto a knowledge of the
truth. The word "men" in verse four is translated from "anthropos", a
human without regard to gender, There are other words for "male" that
God could have used, but He chose "anthropos" which includes women.
God would have all men and women saved and come unto a knowledge of
the truth.
1Ti 2:1 KJV
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers,
intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 KJV
For kings, and [for] all that are in authority; that we may lead a
quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 KJV
For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 KJV
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of
the truth.
1Ti 2:5 KJV
For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man
Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 KJV
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1Ti 2:7 KJV
Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth
in Christ, [and] lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and
verity.
1Ti 2:8 KJV
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands,
without wrath and doubting.
God wills "men" to pray and here the Greek word for men is "aner", a
male, a husband.
1Ti 2:9 KJV
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel,
with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or
pearls, or costly array;
The word "women" is from "gune" and refers to the wives of the men.
This is established by the verses below that speak of Eve, Adam's
wife, and the giving birth of children which applies to married women.
1Ti 2:10 KJV
But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11 KJV
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 KJV
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the
man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 KJV
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
Who was Eve? Eve was Adam's wife.
1Ti 2:14 KJV
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the
transgression.
1Ti 2:15 KJV
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue
in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
The context and the words used in this section of scripture makes it
clear that the women spoken of are married women. To prohibit women
who have been ordained to the ministry from speaking is not the will
of God. Why would God give the ministry of reconciliation to women or
ordain them as prophets or evangelists or shepherds if they were not
allowed to speak in the church?
In conclusion, man has taken it upon himself to "ordain". People are
"ordained" by denominations usually after completing some courses on
how to run a profitable business called a church. We need to stop and
think and consider where denominations come from. Denominations are
the result of wrong division of the Scriptures. A church group gets
into an argument about whether Adam had a belly button and splits.
Those that believe that Adam had a naval call themselves the First
Church of the Navalites and those left behind call themselves
something else. Both groups start their own Bible colleges and begin
mass producing "pastors" which they ordain to service in the body of
Christ. The "pastors" from the two groups would kill each other to
"defend" the denominational doctrine. Something is wrong with the
church. There is one God, one Lord, one Spirit, and one body; not
many bodies. Men and women are equal in the church of God. God says
they are equal and men say they are not equal. Who are you going to
believe?
Bob
......
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Should Women Keep Silence in the Church? (Revised) |
19 Sep 2006 09:45:55 PM |
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Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com> spake thusly and wrote:
Should Women Keep Silence In The Church
It is not surprising that a deceiving scum like Robert Sowle
who doesn't believe that Jesus is God would not want others
to obey the Bible that he has rejected.
Filth like Robert Sowle can't even begin to defend the stupid
garbage they peddle against a real Christian preacher.
If I had the approval of filthy, profane, low life,
false-christian scum like Robert Sowle I would fear for my soul.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
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| User: "SongBookz" |
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| Title: Re: Should Women Keep Silence in the Church? (Revised) |
19 Sep 2006 10:09:22 PM |
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"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:toa1h2t52i9plg6ls2uq8sbc2fjeu5n4ln@4ax.com...
Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com> spake thusly and wrote:
a real Christian preacher.
Know one?
Didn't think so.
--
Terrell D Lewis
http://www.epigramz.com
http://www.soundclick.com/terrelldlewis
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Should Women Keep Silence in the Church? (Revised) |
19 Sep 2006 10:15:27 PM |
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On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:45:55 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote:
Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com> spake thusly and wrote:
Should Women Keep Silence In The Church
It is not surprising that a deceiving scum like Robert Sowle
who doesn't believe that Jesus is God would not want others
to obey the Bible that he has rejected.
Filth like Robert Sowle can't even begin to defend the stupid
garbage they peddle against a real Christian preacher.
If I had the approval of filthy, profane, low life,
false-christian scum like Robert Sowle I would fear for my soul.
Pastor Winter
Steve,
Thank you for endorsing what I wrote. You speaking against it is
proof that it is true to fact.
Here it is again so that you can read it again.
Should Women Keep Silence In The Church?
Revised September 19, 2006
There are those who teach that women should not be allowed to teach
the Word of God and that they should keep silence in the church. This
can not be true because God is not a respecter of persons, because
women are ambassadors for Christ, women have been given the ministry
and word of reconciliation, because women have authority to utilize
the manifestations of the spirit, because there are women prophets and
a prophet is a spokesperson for God, etc. . To deny a woman what God
has ordained her to do is wrong because it is contrary to the word of
God, because it prevents her from earning eternal rewards, and because
it robs the body of Christ of her God given abilities.
Any male member of the body of Christ who prevents a female in the
body of Christ from doing what God has called her to do sins against
God, against the Lord Jesus Christ, and against the body of Christ.
Any female member of the body of Christ who prevents a female in the
body of Christ from doing what God has called her to do sins against
God, against the Lord Jesus Christ, and against the body of Christ.
God is not a respecter of persons. The one that doeth wrong shall
receive for the wrong. Sin against God, the Lord Jesus Christ and the
body of Christ is wrong. Therefore, those who desire to please God
should set aside their prejudices and learn what the will of God
concerning women in the church really is. Anyone who has been a child
of God more than a few minutes knows that there are false doctrines
taught by the denominations. The antichrist doctrine that prevents
women from doing what they were called to do is one of those false
doctrines which is based on the oral traditions of men that have been
given preeminence over the word of God.
The following verses say the God is not a respecter of persons.
Act 10:34 KJV
Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that
God is no respecter of persons:
Eph 6:9 KJV
And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening:
knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect
of persons with him.
Col 3:25 KJV
But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath
done: and there is no respect of persons.
Jam 2:1 KJV
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, [the Lord]
of glory, with respect of persons.
Jam 2:9 KJV
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of
the law as transgressors.
1Pe 1:17 KJV
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth
according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here]
in fear:
Not only does the Word of God say that God is not a respecter of
persons, it also says that those who do have respect of persons commit
sin and are convinced of the law as transgressors. Our Father, who
without respect of persons, judgeth according to every man's work. God
does not respect persons, but conditions. Those who meet the
conditions for rewards are rewarded and those who do not meet the
conditions are not rewarded.
Galatians 3:25-29 KJV
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a
schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on
Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs
according to the promise.
All members of the church of God are children of God. There is
neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is
neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ. We are all
heirs according to the promise. We all share with Christ. We were
called to be one; not two or many in the one body of Christ.
Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk
worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one
another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one
hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and
in you all.
We are called to be one as God is one and Christ is one. In every
case in the above verses the word "one" is translated from the
masculine or feminine forms of "eis"; one, the first cardinal numeral,
the emphatic one, even one, one single. The Greek "eis" has three
genders; "eis" (masculine), "mia" (feminine), and "tis" (neuter).
Gender is a classification of nouns, pronouns, and modifiers. The
classification may be masculine, feminine, or neuter in the Greek; or
just masculine and feminine in the Hebrew. Above, body, Spirit, Lord,
baptism, and God masculine while hope and faith are feminine. The
"one" in "every one of us" in the next verse is the masculine "eis".
Ephesians 4:7 KJV
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of
the gift of Christ.
God's grace (which is God's divine favor) is given to every single one
(male or female) according to the measure (Gr. metron, by implication
a limited portion) of the gift of Christ. Male and females get the
same portion because God is not a respecter of persons.
We are reading from Ephesians Four which is on the practical
application side of the book. The first three chapters tell us what
God did through Christ for us and the last three chapters tell what
and how we are to do what God called us to do (male and female).
Verse four-one tells us to "walk worthy" of the calling and the verses
that follow continue that topic.
Ephesians 4:7-11 KJV
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of
the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity
captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first
into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all
heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some,
evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Notice that verses nine and ten are a parenthesis. Words within
parenthesis in the King James Version of the Bible may be a
representation of the figure of speech Parenthesis (from "para,"
beside, and "entithenai," to put or place in). It is an addition by
way of explanation that is complete in itself. The figure is used
when a word or sentence is inserted which is necessary to explain the
context. As to grammar, the context is complete without it, but not
as to clearness and sense (p.470, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible
by E. W, Bullinger). The failure to pay attention to parenthesis (and
the failure of the editors to mark them) has caused no small amount of
misunderstanding. For example, Romans 9:1 through Romans 11:36 is a
parenthesis that is nor marked as such in most Bibles. That means
that to understand the context of Romans 12:1 a person must read
Romans 8 and then Romans 12. Above, verses nine and ten explain verse
eight.
When we read verse 11, we read verse 8 and then verse 11 so that the
gifts given unto men are some apostles, and some prophets, and some
evangelists, and some pastors (shepherds), and teachers. Notice that
the word "some" (translated from the definite article) precedes all
but "teachers." Apostles, prophets, evangelists, and shepherds are
all teachers. By the way, the word "pastor" is translated from
"poimen;" a shepherd (literally or figuratively). The word is used 18
times in the New Testament. This is the only place it is translated
"pastor" and the only occurrence of the word "pastor" in the New
Testament. What we call a "pastor" is what God calls a "shepherd."
Some say that women can not be pastors; shepherds. Does the word of
God say that? No. Contextually, an apostle, prophet, evangelist, or
shepherd may be male or female.
Verse eight says that Christ gave gifts unto "men" where the word
"men" is translated from "anthropos." The gifts that were given to
"men" are named in verse eleven. Does that mean that only "males" are
to benefit from the gifts of Christ? No. The word "anthropos" speaks
about mankind without regard to gender. Both men and women benefit
from the gifts. Both men and women can be the gifts.
A woman who is prevented from performing service to the body of Christ
is not able to earn rewards that her male counterparts are able to
earn because they are not given the opportunity to do so. Christians
are saved by grace. However, eternal rewards are earned by works
performed in service to the body of Christ. Women who are deprived of
the opportunity to serve the body are prevented from earning eternal
rewards. Also, the body of Christ is denied what the woman is able to
supply.
I have read comments by people who blame the Apostle Paul for saying
that women cannot be apostles, prophets, evangelists, or shepherds.
Paul did not say any such thing. The Apostle Paul spoke to the church
by revelation from Jesus Christ which is to say that what Paul spoke
were the words provided by Jesus Christ (Gal 1:12). Jesus Christ did
not preclude women from service to the body; neither did the Apostle
Paul who spoke for Jesus Christ. The reason that people misunderstand
the different sayings of Christ and Paul is because they refuse to
consider "to whom" the two spoke. Christ spoke directly to the lost
sheep of the house of Israel prior to his ascension; then to the
church of God through the apostles and prophets beginning at
Pentecost. There are three classifications of people in the Bible,
Jews, Gentiles, and church of God. A Jew or Gentile that becomes a
child of God is a member of the church of God which is the body of
Christ that live during the dispensation of grace (Eph 3:2) which
began on Pentecost. Those that live between Pentecost and the Parusia
are saved by grace. Those that lived before Pentecost were not saved
by grace because it was not available until it became available on
Pentecost. There are no contradictions between what Christ and Paul
taught because Christ taught it all to different groups of people
during different dispensations.
This "policy" of discriminating against women has been around for
centuries. Think about it. How many millions of women have been
prevented from earning eternal rewards. How many millions of members
of the body of Christ have been denied service and how many millions
of people may not have been saved because women are not allowed to
serve the body of Christ?
The policy existed before the King James Bible was published but for
the sake of illustration let's use a starting date of 1611 when the
KJV Bible was published. How many Christian women have lived since
the year 1611? How many members have been added to the body of Christ
since 1611? How many of the members could have been helped by a woman
had she been allowed to help? How many women have been unable to earn
eternal rewards because they were not allowed to serve? How many
people have lived since the year 1611?
Let's examine the passages used to deprive women of the opportunity to
serve the body of Christ. We will see that these verses are speaking
about specific women in specific circumstances and not to women as
gender.
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
1Ti 2:11 KJV
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 KJV
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the
man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 KJV
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 KJV
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the
transgression.
1Ti 2:15 KJV
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue
in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
We need to understand a very important word before we continue our
study. The word that we need to study is "man." In English we use
the word "man" to refer to a male person or to a human person that can
include women or children when it is used to mean "mankind." The New
Testament was translated from Greek and there are many different words
translated "man" in the Greek. Sometimes "man" is the translation of
the masculine of adjectives or nouns, etc. When it is the translation
of a separate Greek word it is one of the following.
(1) anthropos - an individual of the human race, a man or a woman.
(2) aner - a man, an adult male person, a man in sex and in age.
(3) tis - one, some one, a certain one.
(4) arren - male, of the male sex.
(5) arsen - male, of the male sex.
(6) teleios - what has reached its end, persons of full age, full
grown.
(7) oudies - not any one
In he Bible the word "man" is often put for both sexes, men and
women, by the figure of speech Synecdoche of the Species where words
of a limited and special sense are used with a wider and more
universal meaning p. 624, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible
Explained and Illustrated, by E W Bullinger.
The translators of the KJV were very liberal with the masculine
English pronouns and nouns, maybe a little too liberal. Below is the
verse that people use to say that women are to keep silent in the
church. Does the verse say "women keep silence in the church?" Yes
it does say "Let your women keep silence in the churches, for it not
permitted unto them to speak, etc."
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
Apparent contradictions in the Word of God come from only two sources
or a combination of both. An apparent contradiction stems from either
error in translation or error in understanding. The first step to
understanding what the Word of God says is to read the words in the
Word in context. We will begin at the start of the chapter. Please
note that the words in brackets "[ ]" are the words in italics in the
King James Version of the Bible. They were placed in italics to tell
us that the words were added by the writers of the King James Version.
It was often necessary to "add" words due to the different structures
of the Greek and English languages or when the figure Ellipsis is
used. The words "they are commanded" were added by the translators
and are not needed for the sense.
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
1Co 14:34 KJV (without italics)
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
The words were not needed to translate the sense of the verse. They
were added by the translators for some other purpose. Below is the
English word for word translation of the verse from a Greek
Interlinear.
"Your women in the assemblies let them be silent for it is not
allowed to them to speak but to be in subjection according as also the
law says."
Let's examine the verse in the context.
1Co 14:1 KJV
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye
may prophesy.
The "ye" refers men and women of the church who were Gentiles.
1Co 14:2 KJV
For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but
unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he
speaketh mysteries.
The words "he that speaketh" and "he speaketh" are translated from the
verb "laleo" which does not include the masculine pronoun. The
pronoun was supplied by the translators without placing "he" in
italics. The word "men" is "anthropos" means humans. The word "man"
is from "oudice", and means "not anyone." Therefore, a more accurate
rendering of the verse would be:
For [one] speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto humans, but unto God;
for not anyone understandeth; howbeit in the spirit [one] speaketh
mysteries.
Here is how other versions translate the verse:
1Co 14:2 NASB
For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for
no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.
1Co 14:2 RSV
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no
one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1Co 14:2 ISV
For the person who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to
God. Indeed, no one understands him, because he is speaking secrets in
the Spirit.
1Co 14:3 KJV
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and
exhortation, and comfort.
The pronoun "he" was added by the translators without italics. The
word "men" is from "anthropos" and means humans. The NASB translates
it as follows, translating "anthropos" as men to represent the human
species.
1Co 14:3 NASB
But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation
and consolation.
1Co 14:4 KJV
He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that
prophesieth edifieth the church.
The pronouns "he" should be in italics because there are no pronouns
with the Greek verbs. The NASB supplies the neuter "one" in place of
"he".
1Co 14:4 NASB
One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies
edifies the church.
1Co 14:5 KJV
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied:
for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with
tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
The pronouns "he" should be in italics because there are no pronouns
with the Greek verbs. The NASB replaces "he" with "one" to show that
it is neuter.
1Co 14:5 NASB
Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would
prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in
tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive
edifying.
1Co 14:6 KJV
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I
profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by
knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:7 KJV
And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp,
except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known
what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 KJV
For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself
to the battle?
1Co 14:9 KJV
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be
understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak
into the air.
1Co 14:10 KJV
There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none
of them [is] without signification.
1Co 14:11 KJV
Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him
that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian
unto me.
The NASB supplies "one" in lieu of "he" to show the statement is
neuter.
1Co 14:11 NASB
If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the
one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian
to me.
1Co 14:12 KJV
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek
that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
1Co 14:13 KJV
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he
may interpret.
"Him" is supplied by translator with the verb. The NASB corrects the
problem with "him" but leaves "he" which is not in he Greek text.
The problem here is two theologies. One group says that the person
that speaks in a tongue does the interpreting and the other groups
says a different person supplies the interpretation. In the NASB the
"he" is added to refer back to the one who speaks and so even though a
masculine pronoun is used it is used in a neuter sense because it
relates to the neuter "one".
1Co 14:13 NASB
Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 KJV
For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my
understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 KJV
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the
understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with
the understanding also.
1Co 14:16 KJV
Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that
occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks,
seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Co 14:17 KJV
For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Co 14:18 KJV
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 KJV
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding,
that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words
in an [unknown] tongue.
1Co 14:20 KJV
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye
children, but in understanding be men.
The word "men" from "teleios" means that which has reached its end,
its full age, old people male or female. It means "in understanding
be adults."
1Co 14:21 KJV
In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips
will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear
me, saith the Lord.
The translators added "[men of]" which should not be there because it
reads "with other tongues and other lips will I" speak. God can not
speak with tongues and lips because He doesn't have any. The point
is that God's words are released through the tongues and lips of His
children.
1Co 14:22 KJV
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to
them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that
believe not, but for them which believe.
1Co 14:23 KJV
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all
speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or
unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
Who comprises the whole church? Men and women comprise the whole
church. And we are talking about what is decent and in order.
1Co 14:24 KJV
But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or
[one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
1Co 14:25 KJV
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling
down on [his] face he will worship God, and report that God is in you
of a truth.
1Co 14:26 KJV
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath
a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an
interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 KJV
If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the
most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret.
"If any man" is "If any one" from "tis".
1Co 14:28 KJV
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church;
and let him speak to himself, and to God.
The pronouns "him" is added to the translation of the verb. So the
text reads, But if there be no interpreter, keep silence in the
church.
1Co 14:29 KJV
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
Who are the prophets? Men and women with gift ministries. A prophet
is one who speaks for God. Men and woman are ordained by God to be
prophets. So why would a woman prophet whose job it is to speak for
God keep her mouth shut? Are there women prophets? Yes they are
called prophetesses and there eight verses that speak of them Exo
15:20; Jdg 4:4; 2Ki 22:14; 2Ch 34:22; Neh 6:14; Isa 8:3; Luk 2:36; Rev
2:20 as true or false prophetesses. Were there women that spoke for
God before Christ? Yes. Were there women that spoke for God after
the ascension? Yes. Do women still speak for God? Yes. What are
they called? Prophetesses. If you want to follow a pecking order;
then apostles, prophets, evangelists, and shepherds is the order of
rank. If a woman can be a prophet or an evangelist; why can she not
be a shepherd? Because men say so? Not good enough. What does God
say? Children of God obey God; not men. Moses was a prophet and his
prophet was Aaron. Aaron's sister Miriam was a prophetess that spoke
for God (Ex 15:20,21). A prophet is a man of God. A prophetess is a
woman of God. Deborah was a prophetess and a judge; a woman of God
that spoke for God (Jdg 4:4). Esther was a prophetess that spoke for
God (Est 9:32). Elisabeth the wife of Zacharias and a daughter of
Aaron was a prophetess that spoke for God (Luke 1). The four
daughters of Philip the evangelist were prophetesses that did prophesy
for God telling Paul not to go to Jerusalem (Acts 21). So, there were
prophetesses before Christ and after Christ. A prophetess is a female
prophet. A prophet is one who speaks for God; a man or woman of God.
If a woman can be a prophet; why not a shepherd? Aquila and Priscilla
were a husband and wife team of evangelists who had a church in their
own home, who were helpers of Paul and who expounded the word more
perfectly to Appolos. If a woman can be an evangelist; why not a
shepherd?
The only reason that women are not allowed to serve the body is
because Satan working through men and women has prevented them from
doing what God called them to do via false doctrines of men.
Depriving women of the opportunity to be what God called them to be is
sin promulgated by Satan. Who do you want to follow; Christ or Satan?
1Co 14:30 KJV
If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first
hold his peace.
"His" is another translation of the verb.
1Co 14:31 KJV
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be
comforted.
Verse 31 says that "all" may prophesy and includes women.
1Co 14:32 KJV
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
The spirits of the men and women prophets are subject to the men and
women prophets.
1Co 14:33 KJV
For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all
churches of the saints.
God is not only not of confusion, but of peace, in all the churches of
the saints and does not prohibit women who serve gift ministries from
speaking.
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
What word is the word "women" translated from? The Greek word is
"gune" and means "woman, a wife". The wives of the prophets are to
keep silent. Verse 35 confirms that these were wives because it says
they are to ask their husbands at home.
1Co 14:35 KJV
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home:
for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36 KJV
What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37 KJV
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him
acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments
of the Lord.
The words "any man" is "any one" from "tis" and are neuter
1Co 14:38 KJV
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
The words "any man" are any one from "tis" are neuter. The word "him"
is part of the translation of the verb.
1Co 14:39 KJV
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with
tongues.
1Co 14:40 KJV
Let all things be done decently and in order.
You can use the same methods to follow gender in the twelfth and
thirteen chapters and get the same results.
We will now examine he verses in First Timothy. Remember, the Word of
God has to be read in context. Remember, too, that the Greek word
translated "woman" is "gune" and means woman, wife while the word that
means "female" is "thelus" as in Rom 1:26,27.
God wrote through Paul to Timothy, the man of God, a prophet and
begins the chapter exhorting people to pray followed by the statement
that He would have all men saved and come unto a knowledge of the
truth. The word "men" in verse four is translated from "anthropos", a
human without regard to gender, There are other words for "male" that
God could have used, but He chose "anthropos" which includes women.
God would have all men and women saved and come unto a knowledge of
the truth.
1Ti 2:1 KJV
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers,
intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 KJV
For kings, and [for] all that are in authority; that we may lead a
quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 KJV
For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 KJV
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of
the truth.
1Ti 2:5 KJV
For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man
Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 KJV
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1Ti 2:7 KJV
Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth
in Christ, [and] lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and
verity.
1Ti 2:8 KJV
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands,
without wrath and doubting.
God wills "men" to pray and here the Greek word for men is "aner", a
male, a husband.
1Ti 2:9 KJV
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel,
with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or
pearls, or costly array;
The word "women" is from "gune" and refers to the wives of the men.
This is established by the verses below that speak of Eve, Adam's
wife, and the giving birth of children which applies to married women.
1Ti 2:10 KJV
But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11 KJV
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 KJV
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the
man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 KJV
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
Who was Eve? Eve was Adam's wife.
1Ti 2:14 KJV
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the
transgression.
1Ti 2:15 KJV
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue
in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
The context and the words used in this section of scripture makes it
clear that the women spoken of are married women. To prohibit women
who have been ordained to the ministry from speaking is not the will
of God. Why would God give the ministry of reconciliation to women or
ordain them as prophets or evangelists or shepherds if they were not
allowed to speak in the church?
In conclusion, man has taken it upon himself to "ordain". People are
"ordained" by denominations usually after completing some courses on
how to run a profitable business called a church. We need to stop and
think and consider where denominations come from. Denominations are
the result of wrong division of the Scriptures. A church group gets
into an argument about whether Adam had a belly button and splits.
Those that believe that Adam had a naval call themselves the First
Church of the Navalites and those left behind call themselves
something else. Both groups start their own Bible colleges and begin
mass producing "pastors" which they ordain to service in the body of
Christ. The "pastors" from the two groups would kill each other to
"defend" the denominational doctrine. Something is wrong with the
church. There is one God, one Lord, one Spirit, and one body; not
many bodies. Men and women are equal in the church of God. God says
they are equal and men say they are not equal. Who are you going to
believe?
Bob
......
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
......
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Should Women Keep Silence in the Church? (Revised) |
20 Sep 2006 09:21:48 AM |
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On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:45:55 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote:
x-tra-extra-read-all-about-it
follow up CORRECTED.
It is not surprising that a deceiving scum
ENOUGH, old man whiner.
Go do the dishes and give the newsgroups a REST.
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Should Women Keep Silence in the Church? (Revised) |
20 Sep 2006 09:41:01 AM |
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spake thusly and wrote:
It is not surprising that a deceiving scum
ENOUGH, old man whiner.
Isn't the polytheistic false-christian scum Merle Elaine Matthews
just as "romanist" as her beloved pope?
The blatant hypocrisy of false-christian scum like Merle Elaine
Matthews says more about them than I ever could. How can these
scum like Merle make such a mockery of the Bible and still expect
to be taken seriously.
So far the deceiving, polytheistic false-christian devilette
Merle Elaine Matthews always changes the subject when she is
asked what the difference is between the trinity that she
worships and the trinity that the pope worships. That is
because, in spite of her ravings against "romanism", she is just
as "romanist" as the pope is and worships the EXACT same
"Romanist" god squad.
In what way is Merle's Roman three headed, idol god squad
different from the popes three headed Roman idol god squad?
In what way is Merle's trinity cult baptism different than the
pope's trinity cult baptism?
Merle can't answer these questions without making major
admissions about her romanist faith, eh?
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Should Women Keep Silence in the Church? (Revised) |
20 Sep 2006 09:52:12 AM |
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On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:41:01 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote:
x-oh-b-quiet: yes
follow ups CORRECTED!
It is not surprising that a deceiving scum
Isn't the polytheistic false-christian scum
The blatant hypocrisy of false-christian scum
So far the deceiving, polytheistic false-christian devilette
Roman three headed, idol god squad
trinity cult baptism
Pastor Winter
poor old man whiner -- what happened, old boy? Did your wife send you
beddy-byes last night without any supper?
Are you in the doghouse AGAIN ?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Should Women Keep Silence in the Church? (Revised) |
20 Sep 2006 12:54:46 AM |
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fake redirect corrected.
Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
snip
a real Christian preacher.
Where? Where?
A real Christian Preacher, like Billy Grahamm, or the Pope.
If I had the approval of filthy, profane, low life,
false-christian scum like
Pastor Winter
I would be concerned, Got that one right.
--
snip hate speech site
Hey real Preacher someone challanged you to a debate, which you would
loose.
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| User: "John Fraser" |
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| Title: Re: Should Women Keep Silence in the Church? (Revised) |
20 Sep 2006 05:05:25 PM |
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Good morning Bob;
This has always been a contentious subject, particularly within those
who the empowerment of women. Just what did Paul mean when he recommended
the women in the Church keep silent?
There are two prevailing thoughts on this subject. The first is if the
women folk didn't understand the message a bishop was speaking about, they
would ask their husbands for an explanation. This can be rather disrupting
and the husband not only has to explain, but will miss other information as
he can only hear or speak; he can't do both at the same time, so he also
misses speaking points because of the distraction.
The second thought is that women are to be submissive; they aren't to
take an active leadership ever men. This viewpoint is an extension of the
family arrangement where the males are in charge. It would be a
contradiction in terms to say I'm in charge of my wife at home, but she is
in charge of me at church.
Can women have leadership roles in church? Sunday School, Nursery, etc.
Some will obviously note that these are motherly in nature and will
therefore resent the lack of empowerment. Similarly, if the men can't
manage their family properly, what makes them think they can pastor a
church?
Cheers,
John
"Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> wrote in message
news:4la0h2l1r1eevl57desk3f1nmns5kd5md6@4ax.com...
Should Women Keep Silence In The Church?
Revised September 19, 2006
There are those who teach that women should not be allowed to teach
the Word of God and that they should keep silence in the church. This
can not be true because God is not a respecter of persons, because
women are ambassadors for Christ, women have been given the ministry
and word of reconciliation, because women have authority to utilize
the manifestations of the spirit, because there are women prophets and
a prophet is a spokesperson for God, etc. . To deny a woman what God
has ordained her to do is wrong because it is contrary to the word of
God, because it prevents her from earning eternal rewards, and because
it robs the body of Christ of her God given abilities.
Any male member of the body of Christ who prevents a female in the
body of Christ from doing what God has called her to do sins against
God, against the Lord Jesus Christ, and against the body of Christ.
Any female member of the body of Christ who prevents a female in the
body of Christ from doing what God has called her to do sins against
God, against the Lord Jesus Christ, and against the body of Christ.
God is not a respecter of persons. The one that doeth wrong shall
receive for the wrong. Sin against God, the Lord Jesus Christ and the
body of Christ is wrong. Therefore, those who desire to please God
should set aside their prejudices and learn what the will of God
concerning women in the church really is. Anyone who has been a child
of God more than a few minutes knows that there are false doctrines
taught by the denominations. The antichrist doctrine that prevents
women from doing what they were called to do is one of those false
doctrines which is based on the oral traditions of men that have been
given preeminence over the word of God.
The following verses say the God is not a respecter of persons.
Act 10:34 KJV
Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that
God is no respecter of persons:
Eph 6:9 KJV
And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening:
knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect
of persons with him.
Col 3:25 KJV
But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath
done: and there is no respect of persons.
Jam 2:1 KJV
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, [the Lord]
of glory, with respect of persons.
Jam 2:9 KJV
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of
the law as transgressors.
1Pe 1:17 KJV
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth
according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here]
in fear:
Not only does the Word of God say that God is not a respecter of
persons, it also says that those who do have respect of persons commit
sin and are convinced of the law as transgressors. Our Father, who
without respect of persons, judgeth according to every man's work. God
does not respect persons, but conditions. Those who meet the
conditions for rewards are rewarded and those who do not meet the
conditions are not rewarded.
Galatians 3:25-29 KJV
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a
schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on
Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs
according to the promise.
All members of the church of God are children of God. There is
neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is
neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ. We are all
heirs according to the promise. We all share with Christ. We were
called to be one; not two or many in the one body of Christ.
Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk
worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one
another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one
hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and
in you all.
We are called to be one as God is one and Christ is one. In every
case in the above verses the word "one" is translated from the
masculine or feminine forms of "eis"; one, the first cardinal numeral,
the emphatic one, even one, one single. The Greek "eis" has three
genders; "eis" (masculine), "mia" (feminine), and "tis" (neuter).
Gender is a classification of nouns, pronouns, and modifiers. The
classification may be masculine, feminine, or neuter in the Greek; or
just masculine and feminine in the Hebrew. Above, body, Spirit, Lord,
baptism, and God masculine while hope and faith are feminine. The
"one" in "every one of us" in the next verse is the masculine "eis".
Ephesians 4:7 KJV
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of
the gift of Christ.
God's grace (which is God's divine favor) is given to every single one
(male or female) according to the measure (Gr. metron, by implication
a limited portion) of the gift of Christ. Male and females get the
same portion because God is not a respecter of persons.
We are reading from Ephesians Four which is on the practical
application side of the book. The first three chapters tell us what
God did through Christ for us and the last three chapters tell what
and how we are to do what God called us to do (male and female).
Verse four-one tells us to "walk worthy" of the calling and the verses
that follow continue that topic.
Ephesians 4:7-11 KJV
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of
the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity
captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first
into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all
heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some,
evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Notice that verses nine and ten are a parenthesis. Words within
parenthesis in the King James Version of the Bible may be a
representation of the figure of speech Parenthesis (from "para,"
beside, and "entithenai," to put or place in). It is an addition by
way of explanation that is complete in itself. The figure is used
when a word or sentence is inserted which is necessary to explain the
context. As to grammar, the context is complete without it, but not
as to clearness and sense (p.470, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible
by E. W, Bullinger). The failure to pay attention to parenthesis (and
the failure of the editors to mark them) has caused no small amount of
misunderstanding. For example, Romans 9:1 through Romans 11:36 is a
parenthesis that is nor marked as such in most Bibles. That means
that to understand the context of Romans 12:1 a person must read
Romans 8 and then Romans 12. Above, verses nine and ten explain verse
eight.
When we read verse 11, we read verse 8 and then verse 11 so that the
gifts given unto men are some apostles, and some prophets, and some
evangelists, and some pastors (shepherds), and teachers. Notice that
the word "some" (translated from the definite article) precedes all
but "teachers." Apostles, prophets, evangelists, and shepherds are
all teachers. By the way, the word "pastor" is translated from
"poimen;" a shepherd (literally or figuratively). The word is used 18
times in the New Testament. This is the only place it is translated
"pastor" and the only occurrence of the word "pastor" in the New
Testament. What we call a "pastor" is what God calls a "shepherd."
Some say that women can not be pastors; shepherds. Does the word of
God say that? No. Contextually, an apostle, prophet, evangelist, or
shepherd may be male or female.
Verse eight says that Christ gave gifts unto "men" where the word
"men" is translated from "anthropos." The gifts that were given to
"men" are named in verse eleven. Does that mean that only "males" are
to benefit from the gifts of Christ? No. The word "anthropos" speaks
about mankind without regard to gender. Both men and women benefit
from the gifts. Both men and women can be the gifts.
A woman who is prevented from performing service to the body of Christ
is not able to earn rewards that her male counterparts are able to
earn because they are not given the opportunity to do so. Christians
are saved by grace. However, eternal rewards are earned by works
performed in service to the body of Christ. Women who are deprived of
the opportunity to serve the body are prevented from earning eternal
rewards. Also, the body of Christ is denied what the woman is able to
supply.
I have read comments by people who blame the Apostle Paul for saying
that women cannot be apostles, prophets, evangelists, or shepherds.
Paul did not say any such thing. The Apostle Paul spoke to the church
by revelation from Jesus Christ which is to say that what Paul spoke
were the words provided by Jesus Christ (Gal 1:12). Jesus Christ did
not preclude women from service to the body; neither did the Apostle
Paul who spoke for Jesus Christ. The reason that people misunderstand
the different sayings of Christ and Paul is because they refuse to
consider "to whom" the two spoke. Christ spoke directly to the lost
sheep of the house of Israel prior to his ascension; then to the
church of God through the apostles and prophets beginning at
Pentecost. There are three classifications of people in the Bible,
Jews, Gentiles, and church of God. A Jew or Gentile that becomes a
child of God is a member of the church of God which is the body of
Christ that live during the dispensation of grace (Eph 3:2) which
began on Pentecost. Those that live between Pentecost and the Parusia
are saved by grace. Those that lived before Pentecost were not saved
by grace because it was not available until it became available on
Pentecost. There are no contradictions between what Christ and Paul
taught because Christ taught it all to different groups of people
during different dispensations.
This "policy" of discriminating against women has been around for
centuries. Think about it. How many millions of women have been
prevented from earning eternal rewards. How many millions of members
of the body of Christ have been denied service and how many millions
of people may not have been saved because women are not allowed to
serve the body of Christ?
The policy existed before the King James Bible was published but for
the sake of illustration let's use a starting date of 1611 when the
KJV Bible was published. How many Christian women have lived since
the year 1611? How many members have been added to the body of Christ
since 1611? How many of the members could have been helped by a woman
had she been allowed to help? How many women have been unable to earn
eternal rewards because they were not allowed to serve? How many
people have lived since the year 1611?
Let's examine the passages used to deprive women of the opportunity to
serve the body of Christ. We will see that these verses are speaking
about specific women in specific circumstances and not to women as
gender.
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
1Ti 2:11 KJV
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 KJV
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the
man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 KJV
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 KJV
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the
transgression.
1Ti 2:15 KJV
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue
in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
We need to understand a very important word before we continue our
study. The word that we need to study is "man." In English we use
the word "man" to refer to a male person or to a human person that can
include women or children when it is used to mean "mankind." The New
Testament was translated from Greek and there are many different words
translated "man" in the Greek. Sometimes "man" is the translation of
the masculine of adjectives or nouns, etc. When it is the translation
of a separate Greek word it is one of the following.
(1) anthropos - an individual of the human race, a man or a woman.
(2) aner - a man, an adult male person, a man in sex and in age.
(3) tis - one, some one, a certain one.
(4) arren - male, of the male sex.
(5) arsen - male, of the male sex.
(6) teleios - what has reached its end, persons of full age, full
grown.
(7) oudies - not any one
In he Bible the word "man" is often put for both sexes, men and
women, by the figure of speech Synecdoche of the Species where words
of a limited and special sense are used with a wider and more
universal meaning p. 624, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible
Explained and Illustrated, by E W Bullinger.
The translators of the KJV were very liberal with the masculine
English pronouns and nouns, maybe a little too liberal. Below is the
verse that people use to say that women are to keep silent in the
church. Does the verse say "women keep silence in the church?" Yes
it does say "Let your women keep silence in the churches, for it not
permitted unto them to speak, etc."
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
Apparent contradictions in the Word of God come from only two sources
or a combination of both. An apparent contradiction stems from either
error in translation or error in understanding. The first step to
understanding what the Word of God says is to read the words in the
Word in context. We will begin at the start of the chapter. Please
note that the words in brackets "[ ]" are the words in italics in the
King James Version of the Bible. They were placed in italics to tell
us that the words were added by the writers of the King James Version.
It was often necessary to "add" words due to the different structures
of the Greek and English languages or when the figure Ellipsis is
used. The words "they are commanded" were added by the translators
and are not needed for the sense.
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
1Co 14:34 KJV (without italics)
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
The words were not needed to translate the sense of the verse. They
were added by the translators for some other purpose. Below is the
English word for word translation of the verse from a Greek
Interlinear.
"Your women in the assemblies let them be silent for it is not
allowed to them to speak but to be in subjection according as also the
law says."
Let's examine the verse in the context.
1Co 14:1 KJV
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye
may prophesy.
The "ye" refers men and women of the church who were Gentiles.
1Co 14:2 KJV
For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but
unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he
speaketh mysteries.
The words "he that speaketh" and "he speaketh" are translated from the
verb "laleo" which does not include the masculine pronoun. The
pronoun was supplied by the translators without placing "he" in
italics. The word "men" is "anthropos" means humans. The word "man"
is from "oudice", and means "not anyone." Therefore, a more accurate
rendering of the verse would be:
For [one] speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto humans, but unto God;
for not anyone understandeth; howbeit in the spirit [one] speaketh
mysteries.
Here is how other versions translate the verse:
1Co 14:2 NASB
For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for
no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.
1Co 14:2 RSV
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no
one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1Co 14:2 ISV
For the person who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to
God. Indeed, no one understands him, because he is speaking secrets in
the Spirit.
1Co 14:3 KJV
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and
exhortation, and comfort.
The pronoun "he" was added by the translators without italics. The
word "men" is from "anthropos" and means humans. The NASB translates
it as follows, translating "anthropos" as men to represent the human
species.
1Co 14:3 NASB
But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation
and consolation.
1Co 14:4 KJV
He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that
prophesieth edifieth the church.
The pronouns "he" should be in italics because there are no pronouns
with the Greek verbs. The NASB supplies the neuter "one" in place of
"he".
1Co 14:4 NASB
One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies
edifies the church.
1Co 14:5 KJV
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied:
for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with
tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
The pronouns "he" should be in italics because there are no pronouns
with the Greek verbs. The NASB replaces "he" with "one" to show that
it is neuter.
1Co 14:5 NASB
Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would
prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in
tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive
edifying.
1Co 14:6 KJV
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I
profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by
knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:7 KJV
And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp,
except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known
what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 KJV
For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself
to the battle?
1Co 14:9 KJV
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be
understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak
into the air.
1Co 14:10 KJV
There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none
of them [is] without signification.
1Co 14:11 KJV
Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him
that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian
unto me.
The NASB supplies "one" in lieu of "he" to show the statement is
neuter.
1Co 14:11 NASB
If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the
one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian
to me.
1Co 14:12 KJV
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek
that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
1Co 14:13 KJV
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he
may interpret.
"Him" is supplied by translator with the verb. The NASB corrects the
problem with "him" but leaves "he" which is not in he Greek text.
The problem here is two theologies. One group says that the person
that speaks in a tongue does the interpreting and the other groups
says a different person supplies the interpretation. In the NASB the
"he" is added to refer back to the one who speaks and so even though a
masculine pronoun is used it is used in a neuter sense because it
relates to the neuter "one".
1Co 14:13 NASB
Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 KJV
For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my
understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 KJV
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the
understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with
the understanding also.
1Co 14:16 KJV
Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that
occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks,
seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Co 14:17 KJV
For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Co 14:18 KJV
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 KJV
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding,
that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words
in an [unknown] tongue.
1Co 14:20 KJV
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye
children, but in understanding be men.
The word "men" from "teleios" means that which has reached its end,
its full age, old people male or female. It means "in understanding
be adults."
1Co 14:21 KJV
In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips
will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear
me, saith the Lord.
The translators added "[men of]" which should not be there because it
reads "with other tongues and other lips will I" speak. God can not
speak with tongues and lips because He doesn't have any. The point
is that God's words are released through the tongues and lips of His
children.
1Co 14:22 KJV
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to
them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that
believe not, but for them which believe.
1Co 14:23 KJV
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all
speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or
unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
Who comprises the whole church? Men and women comprise the whole
church. And we are talking about what is decent and in order.
1Co 14:24 KJV
But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or
[one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
1Co 14:25 KJV
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling
down on [his] face he will worship God, and report that God is in you
of a truth.
1Co 14:26 KJV
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath
a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an
interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 KJV
If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the
most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret.
"If any man" is "If any one" from "tis".
1Co 14:28 KJV
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church;
and let him speak to himself, and to God.
The pronouns "him" is added to the translation of the verb. So the
text reads, But if there be no interpreter, keep silence in the
church.
1Co 14:29 KJV
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
Who are the prophets? Men and women with gift ministries. A prophet
is one who speaks for God. Men and woman are ordained by God to be
prophets. So why would a woman prophet whose job it is to speak for
God keep her mouth shut? Are there women prophets? Yes they are
called prophetesses and there eight verses that speak of them Exo
15:20; Jdg 4:4; 2Ki 22:14; 2Ch 34:22; Neh 6:14; Isa 8:3; Luk 2:36; Rev
2:20 as true or false prophetesses. Were there women that spoke for
God before Christ? Yes. Were there women that spoke for God after
the ascension? Yes. Do women still speak for God? Yes. What are
they called? Prophetesses. If you want to follow a pecking order;
then apostles, prophets, evangelists, and shepherds is the order of
rank. If a woman can be a prophet or an evangelist; why can she not
be a shepherd? Because men say so? Not good enough. What does God
say? Children of God obey God; not men. Moses was a prophet and his
prophet was Aaron. Aaron's sister Miriam was a prophetess that spoke
for God (Ex 15:20,21). A prophet is a man of God. A prophetess is a
woman of God. Deborah was a prophetess and a judge; a woman of God
that spoke for God (Jdg 4:4). Esther was a prophetess that spoke for
God (Est 9:32). Elisabeth the wife of Zacharias and a daughter of
Aaron was a prophetess that spoke for God (Luke 1). The four
daughters of Philip the evangelist were prophetesses that did prophesy
for God telling Paul not to go to Jerusalem (Acts 21). So, there were
prophetesses before Christ and after Christ. A prophetess is a female
prophet. A prophet is one who speaks for God; a man or woman of God.
If a woman can be a prophet; why not a shepherd? Aquila and Priscilla
were a husband and wife team of evangelists who had a church in their
own home, who were helpers of Paul and who expounded the word more
perfectly to Appolos. If a woman can be an evangelist; why not a
shepherd?
The only reason that women are not allowed to serve the body is
because Satan working through men and women has prevented them from
doing what God called them to do via false doctrines of men.
Depriving women of the opportunity to be what God called them to be is
sin promulgated by Satan. Who do you want to follow; Christ or Satan?
1Co 14:30 KJV
If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first
hold his peace.
"His" is another translation of the verb.
1Co 14:31 KJV
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be
comforted.
Verse 31 says that "all" may prophesy and includes women.
1Co 14:32 KJV
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
The spirits of the men and women prophets are subject to the men and
women prophets.
1Co 14:33 KJV
For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all
churches of the saints.
God is not only not of confusion, but of peace, in all the churches of
the saints and does not prohibit women who serve gift ministries from
speaking.
1Co 14:34 KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law.
What word is the word "women" translated from? The Greek word is
"gu | |