| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"SkepticsAsk" |
| Date: |
13 Jun 2007 10:55:44 PM |
| Object: |
Skeptic Question #2 |
Paul writes this in his letter to the church at Corinth:
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel,
and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be
emptied of its power.
18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the
discernment of the discerning I will thwart.
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the
debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the
world?
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God
through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to
save those who believe.
22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,
23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and
folly to Gentiles,
24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the
power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of
God is stronger than men.
26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise
according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were
of noble birth.
27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God
chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong;
28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that
are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our
wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.
31 Therefore, as it is written, Let the one who boasts, boast in the
Lord.
So here is my interpretation:
Non-believers who try to understand the rhyme or reason behind the
cross, they will conclude it is foolish. If they try to understand it
without involving God, it will just be a stumbling block to them. One
must yield to God and in some senses leaving their intellect behind,
then they will see the power of God in their life.
First, do you agree with this interpretation? Second, does anyone
even after coming to the Lord really understand why God had to do
things this way? For me, I have not seen any visions, witnessed
miracles like in the Bible, had prophetic dreams, etc.; but I have
sensed God working in my life... I've felt deeply convicted of sin
(Scripture says that is the Holy Spirit's doing), felt a strong desire
to know Him, and at times an unexplainable peace; but no Damascus
road experiences. So my conclusions based on my experience is that
the power of God mentioned here would be these kinds of things that
testify that the Spirit of God is at work verifying my decision to
yield my life to God, in spite of the fact that the cross seems like a
strange way for God to carry out His redemptive plan.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Skeptic Question #2 |
14 Jun 2007 06:39:03 AM |
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On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:55:44 -0000, SkepticsAsk
<skepticsask@gmail.com> spoke thusly:
Paul writes this in his letter to the church at Corinth:
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel,
and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be
emptied of its power.
18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the
discernment of the discerning I will thwart.
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the
debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the
world?
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God
through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to
save those who believe.
22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,
23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and
folly to Gentiles,
24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the
power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of
God is stronger than men.
26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise
according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were
of noble birth.
27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God
chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong;
28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that
are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our
wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.
31 Therefore, as it is written, Let the one who boasts, boast in the
Lord.
So here is my interpretation:
Non-believers who try to understand the rhyme or reason behind the
cross, they will conclude it is foolish. If they try to understand it
without involving God, it will just be a stumbling block to them. One
must yield to God and in some senses leaving their intellect behind,
then they will see the power of God in their life.
First, do you agree with this interpretation? Second, does anyone
even after coming to the Lord really understand why God had to do
things this way? For me, I have not seen any visions, witnessed
miracles like in the Bible, had prophetic dreams, etc.; but I have
sensed God working in my life... I've felt deeply convicted of sin
(Scripture says that is the Holy Spirit's doing), felt a strong desire
to know Him, and at times an unexplainable peace; but no Damascus
road experiences. So my conclusions based on my experience is that
the power of God mentioned here would be these kinds of things that
testify that the Spirit of God is at work verifying my decision to
yield my life to God, in spite of the fact that the cross seems like a
strange way for God to carry out His redemptive plan.
I don't think we can understand everything God does,
or we'd be God. :)
God knew Adam and Eve would sin and it pleased Him
to give us reconciliation through Christ. The cross was
justice served for us and a sacrifice was made for us.
As for signs, we must remember that great signs
typically surrounded great events in the Bible and
certainly, the generation that Christ came to had
experienced a great event and the Apostles were
given these gifts of healing, etc.. as a sign that
Christ did indeed send them and let us remember,
it was they who were in the last days. And others
were given the gifts of tongues and prophesying
and some other gifts.
So while God can and I believe does at times,
heal and do other miracles in our time, I do not
believe that it is a common thing today.
--
Pastor Dave
Expand and go out into the ocean of your faith.
God doesn't do His deepest work in the shallowest
part of the water.
The world says that seeing is believing.
The Bible says that believing is seeing.
Doctrine is not Scripture.
.
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| User: "SkepticsAsk" |
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| Title: Re: Skeptic Question #2 |
14 Jun 2007 12:04:09 AM |
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This statement is amazing:
"For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God
through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to
save those who believe. "
"it pleased God..." through the folly of what we preach...
Here is a definition of folly:
A lack of good sense, understanding, or foresight.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/folly
So it "pleases" God to save those who believe a message that has a
lack of good sense in it, or maybe we can rephrase and say it pleases
God to save those who believe a message that is not sensible to human
wisdom and reason...
So, I guess there is no browny points for that ivy league school you
attended. It does beg the question, why would God oppose and hate the
idea of one boasting in finding Him? Is God conceited?
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Skeptic Question #2 |
14 Jun 2007 06:27:11 AM |
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On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 05:04:09 -0000, SkepticsAsk
<skepticsask@gmail.com> spoke thusly:
This statement is amazing:
"For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God
through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to
save those who believe. "
"it pleased God..." through the folly of what we preach...
Here is a definition of folly:
A lack of good sense, understanding, or foresight.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/folly
So it "pleases" God to save those who believe a message that has a
lack of good sense in it, or maybe we can rephrase and say it pleases
God to save those who believe a message that is not sensible to human
wisdom and reason...
So, I guess there is no browny points for that ivy league school you
attended. It does beg the question, why would God oppose and hate the
idea of one boasting in finding Him? Is God conceited?
The word "folly" is stated from the perspective of those
who ridicule it, not Paul's.
--
Pastor Dave
Expand and go out into the ocean of your faith.
God doesn't do His deepest work in the shallowest
part of the water.
The world says that seeing is believing.
The Bible says that believing is seeing.
Doctrine is not Scripture.
.
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| User: "SkepticsAsk" |
|
| Title: Re: Skeptic Question #2 |
14 Jun 2007 10:25:44 AM |
|
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On Jun 14, 7:27 am, Pastor Dave <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 05:04:09 -0000, SkepticsAsk
<skeptics...@gmail.com> spoke thusly:
This statement is amazing:
"For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God
through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to
save those who believe. "
"it pleased God..." through the folly of what we preach...
Here is a definition of folly:
A lack of good sense, understanding, or foresight.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/folly
So it "pleases" God to save those who believe a message that has a
lack of good sense in it, or maybe we can rephrase and say it pleases
God to save those who believe a message that is not sensible to human
wisdom and reason...
So, I guess there is no browny points for that ivy league school you
attended. It does beg the question, why would God oppose and hate the
idea of one boasting in finding Him? Is God conceited?
The word "folly" is stated from the perspective of those
who ridicule it, not Paul's.
I agree, the death of Christ on the cross I imagine must have been
very important to God otherwise this transaction would have never
taken place in history. Yet the message is a stumbling block to the
Jews and folly to the Gentiles.. Why design such a plan if the
outcome is going to be this? If "freedom of will" is so important to
God, why such a stumbling block? Why is it critical that God take all
credit for salvation?
--
Pastor Dave
Expand and go out into the ocean of your faith.
God doesn't do His deepest work in the shallowest
part of the water.
The world says that seeing is believing.
The Bible says that believing is seeing.
Doctrine is not Scripture.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Skeptic Question #2 |
14 Jun 2007 11:23:14 AM |
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On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:25:44 -0000, SkepticsAsk
<skepticsask@gmail.com> spoke thusly:
On Jun 14, 7:27 am, Pastor Dave <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 05:04:09 -0000, SkepticsAsk
<skeptics...@gmail.com> spoke thusly:
This statement is amazing:
"For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God
through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to
save those who believe. "
"it pleased God..." through the folly of what we preach...
Here is a definition of folly:
A lack of good sense, understanding, or foresight.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/folly
So it "pleases" God to save those who believe a message that has a
lack of good sense in it, or maybe we can rephrase and say it pleases
God to save those who believe a message that is not sensible to human
wisdom and reason...
So, I guess there is no browny points for that ivy league school you
attended. It does beg the question, why would God oppose and hate the
idea of one boasting in finding Him? Is God conceited?
The word "folly" is stated from the perspective of those
who ridicule it, not Paul's.
I agree, the death of Christ on the cross I imagine must have been
very important to God otherwise this transaction would have never
taken place in history. Yet the message is a stumbling block to the
Jews and folly to the Gentiles.. Why design such a plan if the
outcome is going to be this? If "freedom of will" is so important to
God, why such a stumbling block? Why is it critical that God take all
credit for salvation?
Um, maybe because it's all His work? Hello?
What did *you* *do* to make salvation possible
for everyone? Hello?
The following is not an attack on you personally,
but on the ideas commonly expressed and if you
also have them, then I hope the following serves
as a learning tool for you and that you are
blessed by it!
The truth is, that people like to complain because
of their own sin. They don't want to be called to
task for it. You see, in our own minds, we're not
so bad and so, how could God condemn us?
But then, when we deal with people who sin and
the results happen, we tell them that they are
reaping what they sowed.
But why don't we say that to ourselves? Hmmm...
I smell hypocrisy in the air!
Furthermore, we look at bad acts and say that God
should act. That He should make justice! And then,
when it comes time to pay for our own sins, we say
that a just God would not do such a thing. Hmmmm...
I smell hypocrisy in the air!
If God is just, then He must require perfect justice!
Guess what? That means YOU!
So now we have two options, since God is perfect
and cannot tolerate sin in heaven, since that would
make it like NYC and since He is Holy.
1) Pay for our own sins. Hello Hell!
2) A sacrifice that would pay for our sins for us,
must be made.
Now what happens?
If #1 is done, then God must be evil, because I am
good and so, how can He punish me? After all, all
of those sins I committed shouldn't count. Or is it
because I just committed what *I* consider to be
"little sins" and so, God should live with a little sin
in heaven, right?
Of course, as Christians, we know that #1 is stupid.
If #2 is done, then God is evil and cruel, because
He made Jesus suffer for us and no Holy God
would do that! of course, this leaves us with no
payment for our sins and to pay for them ourselves.
So #2 is stupid as well.
But what of a third option? That God can just forgive us?
Well, there's a problem here. We demanded that God be just,
remember? And so we hypocritically demand that God just
"forgive us", while at the same time, in our criminal courts,
demand that justice means that people pay for their sins!
Hmmm... and why would God forgive those who don't
repent? As humans, we don't even forgive those who
do repent! But we expect more from God, right? So
He should bring those into Heaven, who will not forgive
those who repent, yet we claim to repent, even though
we don't on our own and then He should just forgive us
anyway, because no payment should be required for
our sins. And of course, we only apply this to ourselves,
because when others sin, we want them to pay for it.
Hmmm... I smell hypocrisy in the air!
The truth is, that all of these arguments are self serving
and are quite stupid!
If God is just, as we even require, then justice must
be done!
Now pick which one you want.
1) You pay for your own sins, which you could never do.
2) God pays for them for you, in Christ, which satisfies
the fact that a perfect God would require perfect
justice.
Now the reality is, that here we have God, who satisfies
OUR punishment FOR US and yet we complain?!? Huh?!?
And what does it mean that He did this? That he is cruel?
No! It means that He is so loving and so merciful, that
He paid the debt FOR US, in the person of Christ!!!
We love our children and we would suffer for them
if we could. And we say that this is a noble and
admirable quality in a parent. And yet, when God
does it, it is perverse?!? WHAT?!?
Hmmm... I smell hypocrisy in the air! (:
God is just.
God requires justice.
A perfect God can do no less.
God loves you and so, did for you what
you could not do and what He was under
no obligation to do. He is not the one
who sinned!
On top of the Ark of the Covenant,
which contained the Ten Commandments,
was the Mercy Seat! God showed us even
then, that He was willing to cover our sins
with His mercy and would do just that an
did do just that!
Hosea said...
"For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice;
and the knowledge of God more than
burnt offerings." - Hosea 6:6
And Jesus repeated it to the people,
to show them that they should have
known this all along. If they had
only shown mercy, then God would
have too.
"But go ye and learn what that meaneth,
I will have mercy, and not sacrifice:
for I am not come to call the righteous,
but sinners to repentance." - Matthew 9:13
If only they had known the time of their salvation!
--
Pastor Dave
Expand and go out into the ocean of your faith.
God doesn't do His deepest work in the shallowest
part of the water.
The world says that seeing is believing.
The Bible says that believing is seeing.
Doctrine is not Scripture.
.
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| User: "SkepticsAsk" |
|
| Title: Re: Skeptic Question #2 |
15 Jun 2007 08:38:25 AM |
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|
On Jun 14, 12:23 pm, Pastor Dave <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:25:44 -0000, SkepticsAsk
<skeptics...@gmail.com> spoke thusly:
[deleted]
I agree, the death of Christ on the cross I imagine must have been
very important to God otherwise this transaction would have never
taken place in history. Yet the message is a stumbling block to the
Jews and folly to the Gentiles.. Why design such a plan if the
outcome is going to be this? If "freedom of will" is so important to
God, why such a stumbling block? Why is it critical that God take all
credit for salvation?
Um, maybe because it's all His work? Hello?
What did *you* *do* to make salvation possible
for everyone? Hello?
The following is not an attack on you personally,
but on the ideas commonly expressed and if you
also have them, then I hope the following serves
as a learning tool for you and that you are
blessed by it!
The truth is, that people like to complain because
of their own sin. They don't want to be called to
task for it. You see, in our own minds, we're not
so bad and so, how could God condemn us?
But then, when we deal with people who sin and
the results happen, we tell them that they are
reaping what they sowed.
Sure, but reaping eternal torment in hell?
But why don't we say that to ourselves? Hmmm...
I smell hypocrisy in the air!
Furthermore, we look at bad acts and say that God
should act. That He should make justice! And then,
when it comes time to pay for our own sins, we say
that a just God would not do such a thing. Hmmmm...
I smell hypocrisy in the air!
If God is just, then He must require perfect justice!
But even our justice system has various degrees of punishment.
This is a one size fits all crimes bill.
Guess what? That means YOU!
So now we have two options, since God is perfect
and cannot tolerate sin in heaven, since that would
make it like NYC and since He is Holy.
To me, the only way that I can reconcile such a truth as this is what
you say above. That is, on the other side of eternity, no sin can
coexist with God. And maybe it is as simple as that. The only thing
about this is that it becomes a blind faith trust in Bible, its
declaration as to what is fair, and then leaves a person's rational
mind outside the door per say in terms of their own concept of right
and wrong.
1) Pay for our own sins. Hello Hell!
2) A sacrifice that would pay for our sins for us,
must be made.
Now what happens?
If #1 is done, then God must be evil, because I am
good and so, how can He punish me? After all, all
of those sins I committed shouldn't count. Or is it
because I just committed what *I* consider to be
"little sins" and so, God should live with a little sin
in heaven, right?
Of course, as Christians, we know that #1 is stupid.
If #2 is done, then God is evil and cruel, because
He made Jesus suffer for us and no Holy God
would do that! of course, this leaves us with no
payment for our sins and to pay for them ourselves.
So #2 is stupid as well.
But what of a third option? That God can just forgive us?
Well, there's a problem here. We demanded that God be just,
remember? And so we hypocritically demand that God just
"forgive us", while at the same time, in our criminal courts,
demand that justice means that people pay for their sins!
I don't have an issue with people paying for their sins.. But this is
a payment that no one can bear, eternal torment in hell.
Hmmm... and why would God forgive those who don't
repent? As humans, we don't even forgive those who
do repent! But we expect more from God, right? So
He should bring those into Heaven, who will not forgive
those who repent, yet we claim to repent, even though
we don't on our own and then He should just forgive us
anyway, because no payment should be required for
our sins. And of course, we only apply this to ourselves,
because when others sin, we want them to pay for it.
I guess it is kind of like this.. Lets say I have a son who has
offended me. I truly want to restore our relationship, but I don't
want to wait forever. In fact, I will give him exactly 30 days to
tell me he is sorry for what he did. In 30 day, if he doesn't, I will
burn him at the stake in such a horrible way that he will wish he is
dead. But instead, I will pull him off the stake before death,
maintain his vitals, and repeat this for a long as I'm alive... From
a human perspective, do you not see anything wrong with this? Is this
perfect justice?
[deleted]
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Skeptic Question #2 |
15 Jun 2007 09:58:41 AM |
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|
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:38:25 -0000, SkepticsAsk
<skepticsask@gmail.com> spoke thusly:
On Jun 14, 12:23 pm, Pastor Dave <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:25:44 -0000, SkepticsAsk
<skeptics...@gmail.com> spoke thusly:
[deleted]
I agree, the death of Christ on the cross I imagine must have been
very important to God otherwise this transaction would have never
taken place in history. Yet the message is a stumbling block to the
Jews and folly to the Gentiles.. Why design such a plan if the
outcome is going to be this? If "freedom of will" is so important to
God, why such a stumbling block? Why is it critical that God take all
credit for salvation?
Um, maybe because it's all His work? Hello?
What did *you* *do* to make salvation possible
for everyone? Hello?
The following is not an attack on you personally,
but on the ideas commonly expressed and if you
also have them, then I hope the following serves
as a learning tool for you and that you are
blessed by it!
The truth is, that people like to complain because
of their own sin. They don't want to be called to
task for it. You see, in our own minds, we're not
so bad and so, how could God condemn us?
But then, when we deal with people who sin and
the results happen, we tell them that they are
reaping what they sowed.
Sure, but reaping eternal torment in hell?
I'm not convinced that's what it is. Take a look at
the following verse...
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot
kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to
destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28
I have come to believe, or at least am leaning toward
the belief that it is a once and for all destruction.
But why don't we say that to ourselves? Hmmm...
I smell hypocrisy in the air!
Furthermore, we look at bad acts and say that God
should act. That He should make justice! And then,
when it comes time to pay for our own sins, we say
that a just God would not do such a thing. Hmmmm...
I smell hypocrisy in the air!
If God is just, then He must require perfect justice!
But even our justice system has various degrees
of punishment. This is a one size fits all crimes bill.
Sin is sin, period. God does not tolerate sin, period.
And there are places that you either qualify to enter,
or you do not. Unfortunately for man, none of us
qualify. But through Christ, we can. Now it is up
to each person. We want to complain, but yet,
when God provides a very simple means to be
forgiven, we still complain some more and reject it.
Hmmm...
But see above, since your comment is based on
the idea that there is eternal torment in Hell.
Guess what? That means YOU!
So now we have two options, since God is perfect
and cannot tolerate sin in heaven, since that would
make it like NYC and since He is Holy.
To me, the only way that I can reconcile such a truth as this is what
you say above. That is, on the other side of eternity, no sin can
coexist with God. And maybe it is as simple as that. The only thing
about this is that it becomes a blind faith trust in Bible, its
declaration as to what is fair, and then leaves a person's rational
mind outside the door per say in terms of their own concept of right
and wrong.
Actually, it is simple logic. If you have a place of
eternal bliss, how can it be that sinners are there,
who would ruin it? We all like to dream of that
eternal place of bliss, but none of us want to face
up to what we are. Again, isn't that hypocritical?
In other words, start focusing on *yourself* and
what you're doing, instead of God and what you
think He should be doing, which would rely on
the false claim that you would be able to judge
God. Then you will find the answers to your
questions.
1) Pay for our own sins. Hello Hell!
2) A sacrifice that would pay for our sins for us,
must be made.
Now what happens?
If #1 is done, then God must be evil, because I am
good and so, how can He punish me? After all, all
of those sins I committed shouldn't count. Or is it
because I just committed what *I* consider to be
"little sins" and so, God should live with a little sin
in heaven, right?
Of course, as Christians, we know that #1 is stupid.
If #2 is done, then God is evil and cruel, because
He made Jesus suffer for us and no Holy God
would do that! of course, this leaves us with no
payment for our sins and to pay for them ourselves.
So #2 is stupid as well.
But what of a third option? That God can just forgive us?
Well, there's a problem here. We demanded that God be just,
remember? And so we hypocritically demand that God just
"forgive us", while at the same time, in our criminal courts,
demand that justice means that people pay for their sins!
I don't have an issue with people paying for their sins..
But this is a payment that no one can bear, eternal
torment in hell.
Well, you could, if you live on forever and cannot die. :)
But as I said, I don't think that's what it is.
Hmmm... and why would God forgive those who don't
repent? As humans, we don't even forgive those who
do repent! But we expect more from God, right? So
He should bring those into Heaven, who will not forgive
those who repent, yet we claim to repent, even though
we don't on our own and then He should just forgive us
anyway, because no payment should be required for
our sins. And of course, we only apply this to ourselves,
because when others sin, we want them to pay for it.
I guess it is kind of like this.. Lets say I have a son who has
offended me. I truly want to restore our relationship, but I don't
want to wait forever. In fact, I will give him exactly 30 days to
tell me he is sorry for what he did. In 30 day, if he doesn't, I will
burn him at the stake in such a horrible way that he will wish he is
dead. But instead, I will pull him off the stake before death,
maintain his vitals, and repeat this for a long as I'm alive... From
a human perspective, do you not see anything wrong with this? Is this
perfect justice?
Actually, your premise is off. First of all, we are not
all God's children. Secondly, your premise assumes
that we were already going to Heaven and God took
it away from us. In other words, your putting the
blame on God if you go to Hell, instead of you.
The premise should be more like:
People outside your dwelling place are going to be nuked.
But you have built a place for them, so that they can be
saved and you have offered it to them. However, since
you do not wish to have a place that resembles gang land,
your requirement is that they must believe that you have
done this and must leave their gang world outside of
your dwelling place.
Now, if they refuse to do this, whose fault is it that
they got nuked and end up living in torment from
the radioactivity poisoning, remembering that it is
*your* place that *you* built and you don't owe
anyone anything. But out of love, you decide to
make the offer, which does not mean that you
should have to let people make it into gang land
and make it into a place of fear.
--
Pastor Dave
Expand and go out into the ocean of your faith.
God doesn't do His deepest work in the shallowest
part of the water.
The world says that seeing is believing.
The Bible says that believing is seeing.
Doctrine is not Scripture.
.
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