| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Your Name Here=Harvey" |
| Date: |
14 Dec 2004 04:14:18 AM |
| Object: |
Some erranous facts about Jesus |
I was listening to Glenn Kimball talking about how he spent most
of his life researching ancient texts and documents in which he says
there's a hidden history to Jesus, not known to the general public.
He gives the references in his book - saying that Jesus died at
age 40, not 33 --- therefore our calendar is 7 years early.
Any prophecies are therefore 7 years out.
That Joseph was not a carpenter but an architect and being of
the lineage of David, was wealthy.
That Jesus had 2 brothers and 2 sisters from Joseph's
earlier marriage.
Also that December 25th is not Jesus's birthday, but that was
in March? December 25th was taken over from the pagan worship of
the winter soltice, which the christians took over.
The current bible does not include the text/material used as a
bible, prior our current version.
There are a lot of text/material not included in the current version.
Kimball has written two books - the interview with him was
very interesting.
He's still very much a believer in the bible and christianity.
I was always hoping that the bible and christianity would be true
and correct --- but I simply am not convinced by what I have read,
and what is said/claimed of the bible and christianity.
The christian beliefs and legacy of the bible does not fit in with
current knowledge of the world/etc.
Harvey
.
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
15 Dec 2004 08:55:05 PM |
|
|
"Your Name Here=Harvey" <you@somewhere.not.aus> wrote in message
news:12zvd.27685$9A.513372@news.xtra.co.nz...
I was listening to Glenn Kimball talking about how he spent most
of his life researching ancient texts and documents in which he says
there's a hidden history to Jesus, not known to the general public.
You can read all of the books of the world, but until you LIVE what was
written in the gospels and DO everything from the mouth of God, to receive
the Holy Spirit of truth, you will never KNOW the truth.
cont
Kimball has written two books - the interview with him was
very interesting.
He's still very much a believer in the bible and christianity.
Until he DOES what is in the bible and what was written, he isn't much of a
believer at all, thus anything that he SELLS from his own imaginations or
from various texts is worthless.
cont
I was always hoping that the bible and christianity would be true
and correct --- but I simply am not convinced by what I have read,
and what is said/claimed of the bible and christianity.
The christian beliefs and legacy of the bible does not fit in with
current knowledge of the world/etc.
Obviously, NOT DOING what is commanded, demanded and required in the Bible
and EXPERIENCING GOD firsthand, with your whole life, you will NEVER be
convinced. Modern Christian beliefs and teachings are just as much false as
the wicked and other religions, for they have profaned the truth and name of
Christ with their HYPOCRISY and complacency. The Bible clearly fits in with
the current knowledge of the world, but in order to interpret and understand
it completely, you must LIVE it and receive the Holy Spirit of truth, to
guide you into ALL truths, or you will stay blind to it's truths and REALITY
of today and world events.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Your Name Here=Harvey" <you@somewhere.not.aus> wrote in message
news:12zvd.27685$9A.513372@news.xtra.co.nz...
I was listening to Glenn Kimball talking about how he spent most
of his life researching ancient texts and documents in which he says
there's a hidden history to Jesus, not known to the general public.
He gives the references in his book - saying that Jesus died at
age 40, not 33 --- therefore our calendar is 7 years early.
Any prophecies are therefore 7 years out.
That Joseph was not a carpenter but an architect and being of
the lineage of David, was wealthy.
That Jesus had 2 brothers and 2 sisters from Joseph's
earlier marriage.
Also that December 25th is not Jesus's birthday, but that was
in March? December 25th was taken over from the pagan worship of
the winter soltice, which the christians took over.
The current bible does not include the text/material used as a
bible, prior our current version.
There are a lot of text/material not included in the current version.
Kimball has written two books - the interview with him was
very interesting.
He's still very much a believer in the bible and christianity.
I was always hoping that the bible and christianity would be true
and correct --- but I simply am not convinced by what I have read,
and what is said/claimed of the bible and christianity.
The christian beliefs and legacy of the bible does not fit in with
current knowledge of the world/etc.
Harvey
.
|
|
|
| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
16 Dec 2004 02:46:55 PM |
|
|
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:dO6wd.96$5m3.1@trndny04...
"Your Name Here=Harvey" <you@somewhere.not.aus> wrote in message
news:12zvd.27685$9A.513372@news.xtra.co.nz...
I was listening to Glenn Kimball talking about how he spent most
of his life researching ancient texts and documents in which he says
there's a hidden history to Jesus, not known to the general public.
You can read all of the books of the world, but until you LIVE what was
written in the gospels and DO everything from the mouth of God, to receive
the Holy Spirit of truth, you will never KNOW the truth.
John 16:13 “Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide
you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He
shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come.”
John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father
will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to
your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
We get the truth by listening to the spirit, not by reading some tainted
gospels in a book. The spirit (benevolent multi-dimensional beings) speaks
for and by them/himself. Human books are polluted. The voice in one's own
heart is not. Those who study man's words will be mesmerised by man's words
and will not hear the truth.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
17 Dec 2004 08:01:45 PM |
|
|
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c1f446$0$1123$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
We get the truth by listening to the spirit, not by reading some tainted
gospels in a book. The spirit (benevolent multi-dimensional beings) speaks
for and by them/himself. Human books are polluted. The voice in one's own
heart is not. Those who study man's words will be mesmerised by man's
words and will not hear the truth.
First of all, you don't receive the Holy Spirit of truth, until you repent
from all sin, and in order to know what sin is, you need to study the Word
of God and His commands, demands and requirements. Secondly, there are
demons and devils, as well as angels speaking to you in your mind, and until
you seek, learn and become the righteousness of God, provided in the
scriptures, you won't have the discernment of righteousness to determine
which voice is speaking, whether it be of devils or angels. Man is corrupted
by darkness, ignorance and sin, therefore you cannot trust your own heart or
mind until you have become pure. The gospels contain the truths of God, His
knowledge and wisdom given to men, and in DOING and EXPERIENCING God and HIS
truths contained in the gospels, is how you receive the gifts of the Spirit,
truths, wisdom, knowledge, and righteousness, to purify yourself and even
then, the battle against evil continues in your mind and heart, until you
have overcome it all.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c1f446$0$1123$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:dO6wd.96$5m3.1@trndny04...
"Your Name Here=Harvey" <you@somewhere.not.aus> wrote in message
news:12zvd.27685$9A.513372@news.xtra.co.nz...
I was listening to Glenn Kimball talking about how he spent most
of his life researching ancient texts and documents in which he says
there's a hidden history to Jesus, not known to the general public.
You can read all of the books of the world, but until you LIVE what was
written in the gospels and DO everything from the mouth of God, to
receive the Holy Spirit of truth, you will never KNOW the truth.
John 16:13 “Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide
you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He
shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come.”
John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father
will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things
to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
We get the truth by listening to the spirit, not by reading some tainted
gospels in a book. The spirit (benevolent multi-dimensional beings) speaks
for and by them/himself. Human books are polluted. The voice in one's own
heart is not. Those who study man's words will be mesmerised by man's
words and will not hear the truth.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
17 Dec 2004 09:57:51 PM |
|
|
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:dcMwd.51$sh5.6@trndny08...
First of all, you don't receive the Holy Spirit of truth, until you repent
from all sin, and in order to know what sin is, you need to study the Word
of God and His commands, demands and requirements. Secondly, there are
demons and devils, as well as angels speaking to you in your mind, and
until you seek, learn and become the righteousness of God, provided in the
scriptures, you won't have the discernment of righteousness to determine
which voice is speaking, whether it be of devils or angels. Man is
corrupted by darkness, ignorance and sin, therefore you cannot trust your
own heart or mind until you have become pure. The gospels contain the
truths of God, His knowledge and wisdom given to men, and in DOING and
EXPERIENCING God and HIS truths contained in the gospels, is how you
receive the gifts of the Spirit, truths, wisdom, knowledge, and
righteousness, to purify yourself and even then, the battle against evil
continues in your mind and heart, until you have overcome it all.
Pretty much the only thing I've seen come out of people studying bibles is
big-mouthed, small brained, finger-pointing evangelists and preachers.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
19 Dec 2004 03:02:51 PM |
|
|
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c3aabf$0$1121$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Pretty much the only thing I've seen come out of people studying bibles is
big-mouthed, small brained, finger-pointing evangelists and preachers.
That's because the only ones that are in the limelight are the false,
hypocritical and apostate Christians. Just because these evil men who claim
the name of Christ, are evil, liars and deceivers, profaning the name with
their own sins, doesn't mean that the Bible is false or what these wicked
men are revealing is the truth.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c3aabf$0$1121$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:dcMwd.51$sh5.6@trndny08...
First of all, you don't receive the Holy Spirit of truth, until you
repent from all sin, and in order to know what sin is, you need to study
the Word of God and His commands, demands and requirements. Secondly,
there are demons and devils, as well as angels speaking to you in your
mind, and until you seek, learn and become the righteousness of God,
provided in the scriptures, you won't have the discernment of
righteousness to determine which voice is speaking, whether it be of
devils or angels. Man is corrupted by darkness, ignorance and sin,
therefore you cannot trust your own heart or mind until you have become
pure. The gospels contain the truths of God, His knowledge and wisdom
given to men, and in DOING and EXPERIENCING God and HIS truths contained
in the gospels, is how you receive the gifts of the Spirit, truths,
wisdom, knowledge, and righteousness, to purify yourself and even then,
the battle against evil continues in your mind and heart, until you have
overcome it all.
Pretty much the only thing I've seen come out of people studying bibles is
big-mouthed, small brained, finger-pointing evangelists and preachers.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
20 Dec 2004 01:14:14 AM |
|
|
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:%%lxd.1274$sh5.174@trndny08...
That's because the only ones that are in the limelight are the false,
hypocritical and apostate Christians. Just because these evil men who
claim the name of Christ, are evil, liars and deceivers, profaning the
name with their own sins, doesn't mean that the Bible is false or what
these wicked men are revealing is the truth.
One of the reasons I don't trust the bible is because the commandments are
too ambiguous and non-specific. No one can ever be sure what God wants them
to do, and this "holy spirit of truth" person of yours has everyone going in
different directions.
What exactly is it that God wants us to do anyway?
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
21 Dec 2004 09:21:37 PM |
|
|
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c67bc6$0$5131$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
One of the reasons I don't trust the bible is because the commandments are
too ambiguous and non-specific. No one can ever be sure what God wants
them to do, and this "holy spirit of truth" person of yours has everyone
going in different directions.
What exactly is it that God wants us to do anyway?
The commandments are not really ambiguous, for in obedience to them, when
you truly love and respect God, you will respect ALL ways that they can be
interpreted.
The Holy Spirit of truth does NOT have people going in different directions
for in order to receive Him, for His guidance and truths, you need to obey
all of the commands, demands and requirements of God. People going in so
many directions is because of their following their own desires, wants and
imaginations, living in sin, believing lies, heresies and falsehoods and
because of their own sins and darkness and complacency, they do NOT receive
the Holy Spirit of truth, but walk in the ways of their own choosings.
The Bible is a most extraordinary book, for the more you study it and DO
what it says, as you interpret it, with sincerity, commitment and in all
seriousness, you grow closer to God and in each step of maturity, the wisdom
and knowledge increases, so you learn with experience and with the guidance
of the Holy Spirit, having made yourself pure, from repentance and stop
sinning, to lead you where God wants you to be and do what God wants you to
do. But you can't do it casually, it must be a true heartfelt, sincere and
honest commitment.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c67bc6$0$5131$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:%%lxd.1274$sh5.174@trndny08...
That's because the only ones that are in the limelight are the false,
hypocritical and apostate Christians. Just because these evil men who
claim the name of Christ, are evil, liars and deceivers, profaning the
name with their own sins, doesn't mean that the Bible is false or what
these wicked men are revealing is the truth.
One of the reasons I don't trust the bible is because the commandments are
too ambiguous and non-specific. No one can ever be sure what God wants
them to do, and this "holy spirit of truth" person of yours has everyone
going in different directions.
What exactly is it that God wants us to do anyway?
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
22 Dec 2004 02:09:28 AM |
|
|
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:5L5yd.2559$sh5.2480@trndny08...
The commandments are not really ambiguous,
To a normal intelligent human they are quite ambiguous.
For example: Thou shalt not kill.
Kill what? humans? animals? plants?
It doesn't say.
What about in self defence or when there's a war?
It's extremely simplistic and ambiguous.
Simple primitive minds write simplistic commandments for simpletons.
for in obedience to them, when you truly love and respect God, you will
respect ALL ways that they can be interpreted.
When you coerce yourself to love and respect an invisible ruler then you end
up suffering from paranormal Stockholm syndrome.
The Holy Spirit of truth does NOT have people going in different
directions for in order to receive Him,
He? Don't you mean it? There is no gender in the spirit world.
for His guidance and truths, you need to obey all of the commands, demands
and requirements of God.
The same thing happens to mind control victims. They also end up blindly
obeying all of the enslaver's commands, demands and requirements as well.
People going in so many directions is because of their following their own
desires, wants and imaginations,
That is what is called 'free will'. There is nothing wrong with that as long
as you don't hurt anyone in the process.
living in sin, believing lies, heresies and falsehoods and because of
their own sins and darkness and complacency, they do NOT receive the Holy
Spirit of truth, but walk in the ways of their own choosings.
Those are all cult concepts. Christianity is full of them. It's best to
ignore them and just get on with living a decent life.
The Bible is a most extraordinary book,
It's an extraordinary book only for morally devoid simpletons who are in
search of an invisible master to rule them, and are easily impressed by
mystical sounding cult concepts.
for the more you study it and DO what it says, as you interpret it, with
sincerity, commitment and in all seriousness, you grow closer to God and
in each step of maturity, the wisdom and knowledge increases, so you learn
with experience and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, having made
yourself pure, from repentance and stop sinning, to lead you where God
wants you to be and do what God wants you to do. But you can't do it
casually, it must be a true heartfelt, sincere and honest commitment.
The more you study the dark verses in the bible the more it brainwashes you.
The trick is not to start in the first place.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
23 Dec 2004 06:26:19 PM |
|
|
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c92bb7$0$1123$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
To a normal intelligent human they are quite ambiguous.
For example: Thou shalt not kill.
Kill what? humans? animals? plants?
It doesn't say.
What about in self defence or when there's a war?
It's extremely simplistic and ambiguous.
Simple primitive minds write simplistic commandments for simpletons.
Kill anything that has a soul and life's spirit, humans and animals and even
insects if you can help it. Plants were created for food. If you are walking
in the kingdom of God under His protection, you won't be in a situation
where you would need to defend yourself, nor would you be in a war.
cont
When you coerce yourself to love and respect an invisible ruler then you
end up suffering from paranormal Stockholm syndrome.
He is NOT "invisible" when His Spirit is living inside you, for you can
FEEL, SEE and KNOW Him. And when you know Him, there is NO coercion
necessary for you are so much in love with Him, that you are grateful that
He allowed you to know, love and worship Him.
cont
He? Don't you mean it? There is no gender in the spirit world.
Yes, there is gender in the spirit realm.
cont
The same thing happens to mind control victims. They also end up blindly
obeying all of the enslaver's commands, demands and requirements as well.
It is NOT about blindly obeying God, it is about love, respect, honor and
servitude, willingly obeying because it is the RIGHT thing to do and way to
live. Evil men who use mind control, enslave their victims to do evil. God's
ways are always GOOD.
cont
That is what is called 'free will'. There is nothing wrong with that as
long as you don't hurt anyone in the process.
Sin always hurts others, as well as yourself.
cont
Those are all cult concepts. Christianity is full of them. It's best to
ignore them and just get on with living a decent life.
This is true, modern Christianity is full of cultish ways, however, that
doesn't mean that you ignore God because others are evil and sinful. True
Christianity has a very narrow and straight path that brings joy,
contentment, happiness, love, peace, and all things wonderful, powerful and
glorious.
cont
It's an extraordinary book only for morally devoid simpletons who are in
search of an invisible master to rule them, and are easily impressed by
mystical sounding cult concepts.
Obviously, YOU have never read it seriously or perhaps it is too deep for
your small and darkened mind and heart to comprehend.
cont
The more you study the dark verses in the bible the more it brainwashes
you.
The trick is not to start in the first place.
No, living as the Bible teaches FREES you, while living in the ways of the
world is brainwashing, because you believe the lies, falsehoods and
propaganda of the evil ones, evil rulers and evil society. That is why there
is so much suffering, hardship, injustice, oppression, war, violence, theft,
murder, promiscuity, perversions and all matters of evil in the world. What
are the dark verses of the Bible?
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c92bb7$0$1123$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:5L5yd.2559$sh5.2480@trndny08...
The commandments are not really ambiguous,
To a normal intelligent human they are quite ambiguous.
For example: Thou shalt not kill.
Kill what? humans? animals? plants?
It doesn't say.
What about in self defence or when there's a war?
It's extremely simplistic and ambiguous.
Simple primitive minds write simplistic commandments for simpletons.
for in obedience to them, when you truly love and respect God, you will
respect ALL ways that they can be interpreted.
When you coerce yourself to love and respect an invisible ruler then you
end up suffering from paranormal Stockholm syndrome.
The Holy Spirit of truth does NOT have people going in different
directions for in order to receive Him,
He? Don't you mean it? There is no gender in the spirit world.
for His guidance and truths, you need to obey all of the commands,
demands and requirements of God.
The same thing happens to mind control victims. They also end up blindly
obeying all of the enslaver's commands, demands and requirements as well.
People going in so many directions is because of their following their
own desires, wants and imaginations,
That is what is called 'free will'. There is nothing wrong with that as
long as you don't hurt anyone in the process.
living in sin, believing lies, heresies and falsehoods and because of
their own sins and darkness and complacency, they do NOT receive the Holy
Spirit of truth, but walk in the ways of their own choosings.
Those are all cult concepts. Christianity is full of them. It's best to
ignore them and just get on with living a decent life.
The Bible is a most extraordinary book,
It's an extraordinary book only for morally devoid simpletons who are in
search of an invisible master to rule them, and are easily impressed by
mystical sounding cult concepts.
for the more you study it and DO what it says, as you interpret it, with
sincerity, commitment and in all seriousness, you grow closer to God and
in each step of maturity, the wisdom and knowledge increases, so you
learn with experience and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, having
made yourself pure, from repentance and stop sinning, to lead you where
God wants you to be and do what God wants you to do. But you can't do it
casually, it must be a true heartfelt, sincere and honest commitment.
The more you study the dark verses in the bible the more it brainwashes
you.
The trick is not to start in the first place.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
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| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
24 Dec 2004 12:17:47 AM |
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"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:LmJyd.10889$fe5.1595@trndny06...
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c92bb7$0$1123$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
To a normal intelligent human they are quite ambiguous.
For example: Thou shalt not kill.
Kill what? humans? animals? plants?
It doesn't say.
What about in self defence or when there's a war?
It's extremely simplistic and ambiguous.
Simple primitive minds write simplistic commandments for simpletons.
Kill anything that has a soul and life's spirit, humans and animals and
even insects if you can help it.
That doesn't sound like a strict law.
Plants were created for food.
Correction. Plants were created to maintain and be part of the natural eco
system.
If you are walking in the kingdom of God under His protection, you won't
be in a situation where you would need to defend yourself, nor would you
be in a war.
But you'd still need to eat, thus the killing. It would be different though
if God could supply us with a proper food source. Then we wouldn't need to
resort to violence and destruction of the land and other life forms to
survive.
He's supposed to be omnipotent and yet he can't even provide a legitimate
and independent source of food for us. How are we ever going to learn to be
loving and compassionate if we have to constantly resort to using violence
on smaller life forms just to survive?
I'm convinced that the bible god and satan are working for the same side.
Why else would satan have been present on earth on the very first day of
creation? It was supposed to be a safe and perfect paradise/haven free of
any dangers.
cont
When you coerce yourself to love and respect an invisible ruler then you
end up suffering from paranormal Stockholm syndrome.
He is NOT "invisible" when His Spirit is living inside you, for you can
FEEL, SEE and KNOW Him.
That can also be a result of paranoid schizophrenia or similar.
And when you know Him, there is NO coercion necessary for you are so much
in love with Him, that you are grateful that He allowed you to know, love
and worship Him.
No comment.
cont
He? Don't you mean it? There is no gender in the spirit world.
Yes, there is gender in the spirit realm.
Why? So they can reproduce sexually? Lol. Now I know what ectoplasm is.
cont
The same thing happens to mind control victims. They also end up blindly
obeying all of the enslaver's commands, demands and requirements as well.
It is NOT about blindly obeying God, it is about love, respect, honor and
servitude, willingly obeying because it is the RIGHT thing to do and way
to live. Evil men who use mind control, enslave their victims to do evil.
God's ways are always GOOD.
You just assume that God's ways are always good but if he's bad then he'll
lie about his intentions and you'll be none the wiser. As it is right now,
we have no idea what the bible God's true intentions are because for some
strange reason he won't tell us. Very suss.
cont
That is what is called 'free will'. There is nothing wrong with that as
long as you don't hurt anyone in the process.
Sin always hurts others, as well as yourself.
The word 'sin' has no meaning what so ever outside the religious fraternity
so we cannot verify whether it hurts anyone or not beyond the mere words of
the loosely worded scriptures.
Breaking laws do most often hurt people but 'laws' and 'sins' are concepts
from two completely different realities.
As for hurting oneself, that's the individual's business and their business
alone.
cont
Those are all cult concepts. Christianity is full of them. It's best to
ignore them and just get on with living a decent life.
This is true, modern Christianity is full of cultish ways, however, that
doesn't mean that you ignore God because others are evil and sinful.
I'm not ignoring the christian god because I want to follow others who are
immoral, I'm censuring the christian god because I can see through all the
fake high and mighty exhortations and subtle (and not so subtle)
immoralities, oppressions and cruelties that it very cleverly promotes
and/or condones.
True Christianity has a very narrow and straight path that brings joy,
contentment, happiness, love, peace, and all things wonderful, powerful
and glorious.
Ah, whether Christianity brings true eternal joy etc. is yet to be verified
and proved. Christianity could just as easily be a paranormal trap. You
can't be too careful in this universe. I recon there's a lot of bad types
out there claiming to be creators of all things while all they want is to
entrap you and screw you over.
cont
It's an extraordinary book only for morally devoid simpletons who are in
search of an invisible master to rule them, and are easily impressed by
mystical sounding cult concepts.
Obviously, YOU have never read it seriously or perhaps it is too deep for
your small and darkened mind and heart to comprehend.
It is far from deep I can assure you. It is only deep in it's own obscure
cult mysticism.
For those who are easily impressed by old mystical riddles and melodramatic
old stories and histories it is probably a good read.
I'm a technically minded person but actually I'm also very interested in the
paranormal and spiritual as well as extra-stellar life forms and their
technologies.
cont
The more you study the dark verses in the bible the more it brainwashes
you.
The trick is not to start in the first place.
No, living as the Bible teaches FREES you, while living in the ways of the
world is brainwashing, because you believe the lies, falsehoods and
propaganda of the evil ones, evil rulers and evil society.
I believe neither and so I live an almost totally free and happy life.
I was never so happy while I was a christian.
That is why there is so much suffering, hardship, injustice, oppression,
war, violence, theft, murder, promiscuity, perversions and all matters of
evil in the world.
What are the dark verses of the Bible?
Verses that promote the acquisition of property and land from others, the
encouragement of mass slaughter and wars between peoples, the killing of
innocent living things to offer as pagan style sacrifices, the blame of sin
being thrust onto people for simply 'missing the mark', the cruel punishment
of being thrown into fire just for foolish disobedience, the disempowerment
and disenfranchisement tactics, the constant dwelling on dark concepts like
death, sin, suffering, submission etc. The list goes on and on.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
21 Dec 2004 09:50:54 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:21:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
pontificated:
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c67bc6$0$5131$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
One of the reasons I don't trust the bible is because the commandments are
too ambiguous and non-specific. No one can ever be sure what God wants
them to do, and this "holy spirit of truth" person of yours has everyone
going in different directions.
What exactly is it that God wants us to do anyway?
The commandments are not really ambiguous,
Well, for some people, "Do not murder" must be really
tough to figure out. :)
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
22 Dec 2004 02:15:08 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5orhs0p1s3urr1vsgr60t994g8opnbahdh@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:21:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
pontificated:
The commandments are not really ambiguous,
Well, for some people, "Do not murder" must be really
tough to figure out. :)
It doesn't say "Do not murder".
Besides, anyone with more than two brain cells knows that murdering someone
is going to be bad.
We have comprehensive state and federal laws now. We don't need some ancient
Jews telling us what to do.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
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| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
23 Dec 2004 06:14:29 PM |
|
|
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c92d0c$0$4537$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
It doesn't say "Do not murder".
Besides, anyone with more than two brain cells knows that murdering
someone is going to be bad.
We have comprehensive state and federal laws now. We don't need some
ancient Jews telling us what to do.
I would hope that your morality would be the wisdom that keeps you from
killing rather than needing man's laws and consequences.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c92d0c$0$4537$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5orhs0p1s3urr1vsgr60t994g8opnbahdh@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:21:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
pontificated:
The commandments are not really ambiguous,
Well, for some people, "Do not murder" must be really
tough to figure out. :)
It doesn't say "Do not murder".
Besides, anyone with more than two brain cells knows that murdering
someone is going to be bad.
We have comprehensive state and federal laws now. We don't need some
ancient Jews telling us what to do.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
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| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
23 Dec 2004 10:47:32 PM |
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"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:FbJyd.4984$He3.4220@trndny05...
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41c92d0c$0$4537$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
It doesn't say "Do not murder".
Besides, anyone with more than two brain cells knows that murdering
someone is going to be bad.
We have comprehensive state and federal laws now. We don't need some
ancient Jews telling us what to do.
I would hope that your morality would be the wisdom that keeps you from
killing rather than needing man's laws and consequences.
Of course. I have plenty of morality. Laws are more for moral half-wits and
anti-social degenerates.
I have never had any desire to hurt anyone. It's not in my 'human nature'.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
22 Dec 2004 06:25:26 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:15:08 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5orhs0p1s3urr1vsgr60t994g8opnbahdh@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:21:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
pontificated:
The commandments are not really ambiguous,
Well, for some people, "Do not murder" must be really
tough to figure out. :)
It doesn't say "Do not murder".
Yes, it does. "You shall not murder".
Besides, anyone with more than two brain cells knows that murdering someone
is going to be bad.
Am I the one who said the commandments are ambiguous?
No, it wasn't me, now was it.
We have comprehensive state and federal laws now. We don't need some ancient
Jews telling us what to do.
State and federal laws, huh? Is that why women kill
their unborn babies here and call it freedom of choice?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
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| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
22 Dec 2004 01:42:28 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4rpis055sbf233mgt9s67738np6uotvkvn@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:15:08 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5orhs0p1s3urr1vsgr60t994g8opnbahdh@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:21:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
It doesn't say "Do not murder".
Yes, it does. "You shall not murder".
Where? Quote please.
Besides, anyone with more than two brain cells knows that murdering
someone
is going to be bad.
Am I the one who said the commandments are ambiguous?
No, it wasn't me, now was it.
No, obviously you don't have enough brain cells to see such.
We have comprehensive state and federal laws now. We don't need some
ancient
Jews telling us what to do.
State and federal laws, huh? Is that why women kill
their unborn babies here and call it freedom of choice?
A foetus is the product of the bearer. The bearer has the right to do with
it what she chooses.
Has God ever protested against such? To my knowledge no.
It's only dumb superstitious men who protest against it. They think that God
puts a soul into the foetus even though it has no experience of life yet.
Now. What other laws do we need from the christian bible?
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
22 Dec 2004 06:55:46 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:42:28 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4rpis055sbf233mgt9s67738np6uotvkvn@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:15:08 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5orhs0p1s3urr1vsgr60t994g8opnbahdh@4ax.com...
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:21:37 GMT, while scaling the Mt.
It doesn't say "Do not murder".
Yes, it does. "You shall not murder".
Where? Quote please.
Exodus 20:13
Besides, anyone with more than two brain cells knows that murdering
someone is going to be bad.
Am I the one who said the commandments are ambiguous?
No, it wasn't me, now was it.
No, obviously you don't have enough brain cells to see such.
Insulting me isn't going to cure your inability to
comprehend simple statements.
We have comprehensive state and federal laws now. We don't need some
ancient Jews telling us what to do.
State and federal laws, huh? Is that why women kill
their unborn babies here and call it freedom of choice?
A foetus is the product of the bearer. The bearer has the right to do with
it what she chooses.
Sure, now it's property. They used to say that about
blacks.
Has God ever protested against such? To my knowledge no.
You should read your Bible more often, instead of
reading about it.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
|
|
| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
23 Dec 2004 05:23:14 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:so5ks0l8s8akagfd43kt6ukoej4gjq30g0@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:42:28 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
It doesn't say "Do not murder".
Yes, it does. "You shall not murder".
Where? Quote please.
Exodus 20:13
It says "Thou shalt not kill" (KJV).
It doesn't mention murder.
No, obviously you don't have enough brain cells to see such.
Insulting me isn't going to cure your inability to
comprehend simple statements.
I didn't want to insult you actually but you sort of led me into it. Sorry.
I comprehend the statements just fine, but I also see through them.
I know human nature and I can see the scribe's distortions and flawed
simplistic thinking between the lines. They are over simplified stories, and
when you really look at it you can see the simplistic human thinking and
human violent tendencies and prejudices reflected all through the scriptures
and the bible. You cannot deny that.
State and federal laws, huh? Is that why women kill
their unborn babies here and call it freedom of choice?
A foetus is the product of the bearer. The bearer has the right to do with
it what she chooses.
Sure, now it's property. They used to say that about
blacks.
The blacks referred to were all older than foetuses. They already had life
experience. They knew what was happening to them and therefore they suffered
much. That was true cruelty.
Has God ever protested against such? To my knowledge no.
You should read your Bible more often, instead of
reading about it.
I have tried reading the bible - many times - and it sucked every time.
And, no god has ever protested against abortion.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
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| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
23 Dec 2004 06:27:12 PM |
|
|
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41caaaa1$0$7078$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
It says "Thou shalt not kill" (KJV).
It doesn't mention murder.
There is NO difference between killing and murder.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41caaaa1$0$7078$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:so5ks0l8s8akagfd43kt6ukoej4gjq30g0@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:42:28 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
It doesn't say "Do not murder".
Yes, it does. "You shall not murder".
Where? Quote please.
Exodus 20:13
It says "Thou shalt not kill" (KJV).
It doesn't mention murder.
No, obviously you don't have enough brain cells to see such.
Insulting me isn't going to cure your inability to
comprehend simple statements.
I didn't want to insult you actually but you sort of led me into it.
Sorry.
I comprehend the statements just fine, but I also see through them.
I know human nature and I can see the scribe's distortions and flawed
simplistic thinking between the lines. They are over simplified stories,
and when you really look at it you can see the simplistic human thinking
and human violent tendencies and prejudices reflected all through the
scriptures and the bible. You cannot deny that.
State and federal laws, huh? Is that why women kill
their unborn babies here and call it freedom of choice?
A foetus is the product of the bearer. The bearer has the right to do
with
it what she chooses.
Sure, now it's property. They used to say that about
blacks.
The blacks referred to were all older than foetuses. They already had life
experience. They knew what was happening to them and therefore they
suffered much. That was true cruelty.
Has God ever protested against such? To my knowledge no.
You should read your Bible more often, instead of
reading about it.
I have tried reading the bible - many times - and it sucked every time.
And, no god has ever protested against abortion.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
23 Dec 2004 10:35:59 PM |
|
|
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AnJyd.4092$sh5.2222@trndny08...
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41caaaa1$0$7078$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
It says "Thou shalt not kill" (KJV).
It doesn't mention murder.
There is NO difference between killing and murder.
So if I kill a fly then that's murder?
Lol.
Really Dore, I would expect a bit better from a direct offspring of the
creator of all the universe.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
|
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
23 Dec 2004 08:17:53 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:23:14 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:so5ks0l8s8akagfd43kt6ukoej4gjq30g0@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:42:28 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
It doesn't say "Do not murder".
Yes, it does. "You shall not murder".
Where? Quote please.
Exodus 20:13
It says "Thou shalt not kill" (KJV).
It doesn't mention murder.
Ratsach is the Hebrew word there and it speaks of
murder. A murderer may say, "Yea, I killed him". Does
that mean he's not guilty of murder? And btw, not all
translations say "kill". Some actually say "murder".
No, obviously you don't have enough brain cells to see such.
Insulting me isn't going to cure your inability to
comprehend simple statements.
I didn't want to insult you actually but you sort of led me into it. Sorry.
I comprehend the statements just fine, but I also see through them.
I know human nature and I can see the scribe's distortions and flawed
simplistic thinking between the lines. They are over simplified stories, and
when you really look at it you can see the simplistic human thinking and
human violent tendencies and prejudices reflected all through the scriptures
and the bible. You cannot deny that.
These are claims, not proof.
State and federal laws, huh? Is that why women kill
their unborn babies here and call it freedom of choice?
A foetus is the product of the bearer. The bearer has the right to do with
it what she chooses.
Sure, now it's property. They used to say that about
blacks.
The blacks referred to were all older than foetuses. They already had life
experience. They knew what was happening to them and therefore they suffered
much. That was true cruelty.
And yet, they were still considered property. All
you've proved, is that it is not a question of whether
or not it is a human life, but rather, whether or not
people will recognize it as such, due to their own
selfish reasons.
Has God ever protested against such? To my knowledge no.
You should read your Bible more often, instead of
reading about it.
I have tried reading the bible - many times - and it sucked every time.
And, no god has ever protested against abortion.
God states that the life in the womb is formed by Him
and gives a punishment for those who cause a woman to
lose her unborn child. But no, He couldn't be against
abortion, right? (:
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
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| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
23 Dec 2004 10:00:22 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9kkls01ef1v3trm7fgf26f0b4smutlhk8a@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:23:14 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
Exodus 20:13
It says "Thou shalt not kill" (KJV).
It doesn't mention murder.
Ratsach is the Hebrew word there and it speaks of
murder. A murderer may say, "Yea, I killed him". Does
that mean he's not guilty of murder? And btw, not all
translations say "kill". Some actually say "murder".
If it's murder then why not say murder?
Why is the KJV and others using incorrect and loose wording?
Who are the idiots who did the translating anyway?
Not everyone has the time to research the meaning of every word in a canon,
and if it's supposed to be a simple book of law then such absurd
convolutions should not be necessary.
Isn't a book of law supposed to be thorough and accurate?
How can you govern a world with a bunch of terse and loosely worded verses
and parables?
I comprehend the statements just fine, but I also see through them.
I know human nature and I can see the scribe's distortions and flawed
simplistic thinking between the lines. They are over simplified stories,
and
when you really look at it you can see the simplistic human thinking and
human violent tendencies and prejudices reflected all through the
scriptures
and the bible. You cannot deny that.
These are claims, not proof.
Religious beliefs are what are all about claims.
Mine are not claims but observations. Anyone with a bit of moral human
fibre, character and intelligence can plainly see that christianity is
nothing more than oppression, violence and hidden immorality hiding behind a
giant invisible strawman.
The blacks referred to were all older than foetuses. They already had life
experience. They knew what was happening to them and therefore they
suffered >>much. That was true cruelty.
And yet, they were still considered property. All
you've proved, is that it is not a question of whether
or not it is a human life, but rather, whether or not
people will recognize it as such, due to their own
selfish reasons.
In an over populated world where everyone has money problems it is actually
crueller to bring a child into the world and let it grow up and likely die
from a drug overdose or disease. An abortion is a far more humane way to
save an unwanted baby the agony of a potentially bad life. It is also a much
more humane way than the way the christian god kills grownups and children.
Besides, a person should only raise children if they really love children,
otherwise they'll be a bad parent (like the christian god). But that
shouldn't stop the individual from experiencing some good things in life
like sex. It's not like they're hurting others with what they're doing like
some people do.
I have tried reading the bible - many times - and it sucked every time.
And, no god has ever protested against abortion.
God states that the life in the womb is formed by Him
A god didn't say that, some ancient superstitious men did. That's all that
is in the bible - superstitious men's pious assumptions and passionate
mystical visions.
and gives a punishment for those who cause a woman to
lose her unborn child. But no, He couldn't be against
abortion, right? (:
Bullcrap. Punishment my left shoe.
When are you christians going to grow out of this primitive and childish
'accusation / punishment / submission / reward' game? It's really getting
old.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
24 Dec 2004 11:49:46 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:00:22 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9kkls01ef1v3trm7fgf26f0b4smutlhk8a@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:23:14 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
Exodus 20:13
It says "Thou shalt not kill" (KJV).
It doesn't mention murder.
Ratsach is the Hebrew word there and it speaks of
murder. A murderer may say, "Yea, I killed him". Does
that mean he's not guilty of murder? And btw, not all
translations say "kill". Some actually say "murder".
If it's murder then why not say murder?
Because to kill can be to murder. I just provided an
example of that. All you are doing here, is confirming
that you are dense.
I comprehend the statements just fine, but I also see through them.
I know human nature and I can see the scribe's distortions and flawed
simplistic thinking between the lines. They are over simplified stories,
and
when you really look at it you can see the simplistic human thinking and
human violent tendencies and prejudices reflected all through the
scriptures
and the bible. You cannot deny that.
These are claims, not proof.
Religious beliefs are what are all about claims.
Mine are not claims but observations.
They are claims based on opinion.
The blacks referred to were all older than foetuses. They already had life
experience. They knew what was happening to them and therefore they
suffered >>much. That was true cruelty.
And yet, they were still considered property. All
you've proved, is that it is not a question of whether
or not it is a human life, but rather, whether or not
people will recognize it as such, due to their own
selfish reasons.
In an over populated world where everyone has money problems it is actually
crueller to bring a child into the world and let it grow up and likely die
from a drug overdose or disease.
You don't know what the child's life would be like and
frankly, by your logic, your mother should not have
given birth to you. You also fail to recognize that
the world is not overpopulated. There's plenty of
space out there. People just tend to pack together.
The reality is, that the entire population of the world
could stand in Jacksonville, FL, twice over.
An abortion is a far more humane way to
save an unwanted baby the agony of a potentially bad life.
The real problem here is that we have mothers who don't
want their babies. What does that say about them? And
murdering a baby is never a "more humane" solution.
But maybe we should keep that in mind, should you ever
be down on your luck. We'll just say that it would be
more humane to murder you instead of letting you live
that way and besides, the world is overpopulated
anyway.
I have tried reading the bible - many times - and it sucked every time.
And, no god has ever protested against abortion.
God states that the life in the womb is formed by Him
A god didn't say that, some ancient superstitious men did. That's all that
is in the bible - superstitious men's pious assumptions and passionate
mystical visions.
That is opinion, not proof.
and gives a punishment for those who cause a woman to
lose her unborn child. But no, He couldn't be against
abortion, right? (:
Bullcrap. Punishment my left shoe.
When are you christians going to grow out of this primitive and childish
'accusation / punishment / submission / reward' game? It's really getting
old.
Your claim was in error. Instead of admitting that,
you rant. According to you, there should be no
punishment. So you'll have no problem with my coming
to your house to murder your family and afterward,
you'll tell the judge that I should not be punished,
right? After all, it would be just "a game" that the
system needs to recognize as "primitive and childish"
and one that is "getting really old", right?
Isn't it amazing that man complains if God metes out
justice, but when man is hurt by man, man cries out for
justice through the court system, thereby making
himself a hypocrite.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
.
|
|
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| User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
24 Dec 2004 05:22:08 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:d5los0hu2153s736g55rgsbo5dmff0i1bc@4ax.com...
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:00:22 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
If it's murder then why not say murder?
Because to kill can be to murder.
We're not interested in 'can be's'.
You cannot base laws on 'can be's'.
Laws must have no loose or ambiguous wording because then they can be
misinterpreted and people will then go around calling each other 'sinners'
willy nilly and starting wars, which is exactly what's been happening all
these centuries.
I just provided an
example of that. All you are doing here, is confirming
that you are dense.
Really? Are you sure? Think again.
Religious beliefs are what are all about claims.
Mine are not claims but observations.
They are claims based on opinion.
So are yours, only yours are not original. Your opinions are merely taken
from other people's claims, opinions and visions and then later sanctioned
by religio-political governments.
In an over populated world where everyone has money problems it is
actually
crueller to bring a child into the world and let it grow up and likely die
from a drug overdose or disease.
You don't know what the child's life would be like and
frankly, by your logic, your mother should not have
given birth to you.
Lol. Thanks mate.
You also fail to recognize that
the world is not overpopulated. There's plenty of
space out there.
Hmm. It's just that much of it is desert and thus useless.
A lot of it is also bush and forest but we need those otherwise we won't
have any oxygen to breath.
People just tend to pack together.
The reality is, that the entire population of the world
could stand in Jacksonville, FL, twice over.
An abortion is a far more humane way to
save an unwanted baby the agony of a potentially bad life.
The real problem here is that we have mothers who don't
want their babies. What does that say about them?
Wanting a baby is not a quality or virtue. Some people like raising children
and others like doing other things. It's all a matter of personal interest.
And
murdering a baby is never a "more humane" solution.
Abortion is not murder. Murder is forcibly and violently taking a person's
life against their will. A foetus doesn't have any will yet.
And abortion is more humane than waiting for the foetus to grow up and then
killing it.
But maybe we should keep that in mind, should you ever
be down on your luck. We'll just say that it would be
more humane to murder you instead of letting you live
that way and besides, the world is overpopulated
anyway.
Once a person has grown up and experienced life it's too late, but that's
never stopped the christian god and his zealous followers from killing.
A god didn't say that, some ancient superstitious men did. That's all that
is in the bible - superstitious men's pious assumptions and passionate
mystical visions.
That is opinion, not proof.
You as a christian believer shouldn't talk about proof.
Bullcrap. Punishment my left shoe.
When are you christians going to grow out of this primitive and childish
'accusation / punishment / submission / reward' game? It's really getting
old.
Your claim was in error. Instead of admitting that,
you rant.
You blindly assume that your claims *must* always be the only true ones.
I believe that's what could be called bigotry and arrogance.
According to you, there should be no
punishment.
Punishment has been proven rather ineffective as a deterrent.
Education would be a far better option.
So you'll have no problem with my coming
to your house to murder your family and afterward,
you'll tell the judge that I should not be punished,
right?
You would need to be re-educated, not just cruelly punished and then hope
that you'll miraculously change.
After all, it would be just "a game" that the
system needs to recognize as "primitive and childish"
and one that is "getting really old", right?
Isn't it amazing that man complains if God metes out
justice,
Who? Who exactly is 'God' anyway?
but when man is hurt by man, man cries out for
justice through the court system, thereby making
himself a hypocrite.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Some erranous facts about Jesus |
25 Dec 2004 06:03:29 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 10:22:08 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:d5los0hu2153s736g55rgsbo5dmff0i1bc@4ax.com...
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:00:22 +1100, while scaling the
Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> pontificated:
If it's murder then why not say murder?
Because to kill can be to murder.
We're not interested in 'can be's'.
You cannot base laws on 'can be's'.
Laws must have no loose or ambiguous wording because then they can be
misinterpreted and people will then go around calling each other 'sinners'
willy nilly and starting wars, which is exactly what's been happening all
these centuries.
It is not "loose and ambiguous"and continuing to label
it as such is not going to help you any. Unless you
are extremely dense, or severely retarded, it is a very
simple concept to understand.
Note the phrase here, in which the death penalty is
prescribed for killers who have committed murder...
"Whoso killeth any person, THE MURDERER shall be put to
death..." - Numbers 35:30
1) The original Hebrew word means "murder".
2) It is very easy to understand that when someone says
they killed someone, whether or not it was murder.
a) If they broke into their house and attacked their
family, that is a self defense killing.
b) If they killed a person just for fun, that is
murder.
c) If it was an accidental killing, that is an accident
and not murder.
3) The Law breaks down the Commandment for you and tell
you when it is murder and when it isn't (Num 35:10-23;
Deut 19:1-13).
I just provided an
example of that. All you are doing here, is confirming
that you are dense.
Really? Are you sure? Think again.
I am not going to argue this with you over and over
again. I have proved my position to be Biblical and
have destroyed your claim of ambiguity.
Religious beliefs are what are all about claims.
Mine are not claims but observations.
They are claims based on opinion.
So are yours, only yours are not original.
So you admit that you lied and that your comments
really are claims based on your opinion and now your
defense is that you think they're "original"? That is
another deception piled on top of the first one. Do
you really think that no one has ever claimed what you
have? Please. <chuckle>
Your opinions are merely taken
from other people's claims, opinions and visions and then later sanctioned
by religio-political governments.
There is another claim on your part, which is based on
your opinion. I do not review what governments do, to
form my opinion about what the Bible says. In fact, I
try not to have an opinion at all and nowhere did my
opinion enter into this conversation. I stated
Biblical fact and backed it up.
In an over populated world where everyone has money problems it is
actually
crueller to bring a child into the world and let it grow up and likely die
from a drug overdose or disease.
You don't know what the child's life would be like and
frankly, by your logic, your mother should not have
given birth to you.
Lol. Thanks mate.
It's true. Using your logic, that is.
You also fail to recognize that
the world is not overpopulated. There's plenty of
space out there.
Hmm. It's just that much of it is desert and thus useless.
Not true. There are many deserts, but people do live
in them.
A lot of it is also bush and forest but we need those otherwise we won't
have any oxygen to breath.
It was all bush and forest at one time. Much of where
I live was marsh and swamp. So what? I'm living here,
aren't I? :)
Ever seen to Montana? There's lots of space out there.
And imagine NY State as a big NYC. You don't think we
could fit billions there, given the fact that 10
million people (give or take a million) live in NYC?
People just tend to pack together.
The reality is, that the entire population of the world
could stand in Jacksonville, FL, twice over.
No response?
An abortion is a far more humane way to
save an unwanted baby the agony of a potentially bad life.
The real problem here is that we have mothers who don't
want their babies. What does that say about them?
Wanting a baby is not a quality or virtue. Some people like raising children
and others like doing other things. It's all a matter of personal interest.
Not when it comes down to already being pregnant. Once
the baby is on its way, personal interests need to be
put aside, for the sake of the child. Unless your
parents were awful, you need to sit down with your
parents and let them try to explain to you what it
means to have a child and what sacrifices are involved
and if they truly do love you, you'll find that they
didn't consider them sacrifices,when compared with the
gift they were given in you.
You write as one who is young and doesn't have a child
and has no concept of what being a parent means.
Watching your baby be born, is a life changing moment
that no words can describe. Your whole world changes,
literally in an instant and everything becomes about
that child.
And
murdering a baby is never a "more humane" solution.
Abortion is not murder. Murder is forcibly and violently taking a person's
life against their will. A foetus doesn't have any will yet.
I have old you already, that a persons will has nothing
to do with it and I have backed that up with the
definition of murder. A person may be begging you to
shoot them and it would still be murder, so their will
is irrelevant. Murder is the taking of a life with
malice aforethought. And it doesn't have to be
violent, but abortion is very violent.
If you're going to keep spouting out the same disproved
nonsense, instead of acknowledging the facts I have
presented, then you can argue with yourself. I do not
consider a discussion to be progressing, when I have to
keep responding with the same statements, because you
keep repeating the same words and ignore my responses
to them.
And abortion is more humane than waiting for the foetus to grow up and then
killing it.
Making silly comparisons does not help your argument.
I do not advocate murdering a child, whether born or
not.
But maybe we should keep that in mind, should you ever
be down on your luck. We'll just say that it would be
more humane to murder you instead of letting you live
that way and besides, the world is overpopulated
anyway.
Once a person has grown up and experienced life it's too late, but that's
never stopped the christian god and his zealous followers from killing.
1) Here once again, you fear that your argument cannot
stand on its own merits and attack God. That is a
cowardly fashion in which to debate.
2) Why is it too late? And at what point after birth,
do you consider it to be too late?
A god didn't say that, some ancient superstitious men did. That's all that
is in the bible - superstitious men's pious assumptions and passionate
mystical visions.
That is opinion, not proof.
You as a christian believer shouldn't talk about proof.
And here you go again. Now you attack me personally.
Bullcrap. Punishment my left shoe.
When are you christians going to grow out of this primitive and childish
'accusation / punishment / submission / reward' game? It's really getting
old.
Your claim was in error. Instead of admitting that,
you rant.
You blindly assume that your claims *must* always be the only true ones.
I believe that's what could be called bigotry and arrogance.
The fact is, that you ranted and attacked, nothing
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