| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Wanda" |
| Date: |
29 Sep 2004 05:37:17 PM |
| Object: |
Some questions on the Bible |
I'm a 'newbie' here at alt.bible; matter of fact, I guess I'm a 'newbie'
about all of this Christian stuff. I mean, I was raised with a Methodist
minister for a father, my mother later became a Baptist minister, (after
they divorced) my grandmother was a minister, my great-grandfather was
one....and it seemed like everyone else was involved in some way with the
church. I've always believed in the existence of God, and in His ability to
perform miracles, and I've always believed that the Bible really is the Word
of God. On a personal level though, I don't think I ever really thought that
His love included me. I've had a pretty rough life, and I guess I figured He
couldn't love someone like me. (At other times I figured He must not love me
too much if He let me go through all I went through.) As I've gotten older
though, I've kind of changed my mind about a lot of things; recently I've
begun to feel a need to really explore this.
Okay, enough background; here's my questions.
1. I'm a very 'giving' person. I'm the type that chooses to be charitable on
a 'personal' level; I give to the people I see begging, and without
reservation. I don't worry about what they're going to do with it, I just
give. On several occasions I've met people online who had a need, and I
could help so I did. I've been in the store and someone overspent, (like a
mother with children) and I'll give her what she was short. I know that a
lot of Christians preach about tithing, but then if someone comes up to them
on the street and says they're hungry, the so-called 'Christian' turns their
back. A lot of people tell me that I'm crazy because I don't know these
people, they might be drunks or drug addicts just scamming people, but I
feel that it's not up to me to judge people that way. Where in the Bible can
I find things on this subject, on charity and what Christians should do?
2. I've been a smoker since I was about 13 years old. (I'm 45) I'm always
hearing that Christians should not smoke because it says in the Bible not
to. When I ask where, I'm pointed to passages which mention that we are made
in His image, and/or that we are God's temple. No one has ever shown me
anything which, to me, directly or indirectly says anything about smoking. I
know it says something about not becoming intoxicated, but it's talking
about drinking; is there anything about smoking?
I had another one, but now I can't remember what it was; I guess that's
enough for now anyway! I've rambled long enough.
TIA,
Wanda
--
The only true wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing.
Socrates
.
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| User: "John D Newport" |
|
| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible |
29 Sep 2004 11:27:08 PM |
|
|
"Wanda" <w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:xOG6d.456304$OB3.156559@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I'm a 'newbie' here at alt.bible; matter of fact, I guess I'm a 'newbie'
about all of this Christian stuff. I mean, I was raised with a Methodist
minister for a father, my mother later became a Baptist minister, (after
they divorced) my grandmother was a minister, my great-grandfather was
one....and it seemed like everyone else was involved in some way with the
church. I've always believed in the existence of God, and in His ability
to
perform miracles, and I've always believed that the Bible really is the
Word
of God. On a personal level though, I don't think I ever really thought
that
His love included me. I've had a pretty rough life, and I guess I figured
He
couldn't love someone like me. (At other times I figured He must not love
me
too much if He let me go through all I went through.) As I've gotten older
though, I've kind of changed my mind about a lot of things; recently I've
begun to feel a need to really explore this.
Okay, enough background; here's my questions.
1. I'm a very 'giving' person. I'm the type that chooses to be charitable
on
a 'personal' level; I give to the people I see begging, and without
reservation. I don't worry about what they're going to do with it, I just
give. On several occasions I've met people online who had a need, and I
could help so I did. I've been in the store and someone overspent, (like a
mother with children) and I'll give her what she was short. I know that a
lot of Christians preach about tithing, but then if someone comes up to
them
on the street and says they're hungry, the so-called 'Christian' turns
their
back. A lot of people tell me that I'm crazy because I don't know these
people, they might be drunks or drug addicts just scamming people, but I
feel that it's not up to me to judge people that way. Where in the Bible
can
I find things on this subject, on charity and what Christians should do?
Christians should freely give to those people. It is a sin for us to know
to
do good and not do it. Unfortunately, we are human and our cynicism
gets in the way. I know I have been guilty of that way too many times.
Holding back is only ok when we know that a particular beggar is lying.
2. I've been a smoker since I was about 13 years old. (I'm 45) I'm always
hearing that Christians should not smoke because it says in the Bible not
to. When I ask where, I'm pointed to passages which mention that we are
made
in His image, and/or that we are God's temple. No one has ever shown me
anything which, to me, directly or indirectly says anything about smoking.
I
know it says something about not becoming intoxicated, but it's talking
about drinking; is there anything about smoking?
I do not think there is any specific scripture against smoking.
It is just those passages that have already been pointed out to you.
Those scriptures do cover anything that is capable of harming your body.
So, yes it is a sin. It is a sin because it is not good for you and Jesus
really
does love you and wants the very best for you.
Sin is anything short of absolute perfection and there is only one person
that is perfect, our Lord Jesus Christ. He gave us a great gift, he died
to pay the eternal penalty for sin. In general, we still will suffer the
natural
consequences of our sins, but the eternal debt to God is paid,
forgiven, forever.
So, what to do? Forgive yourself, love yourself, make an effort to take
good care of your body (temple). When you fail, forgive yourself again,
just like Jesus has, get up and go on trying, again and again, day after
day.
Just do not quit trying, no need to get all wound up about the failures.
It is tough to do at times, our nature does not want to keep forgiving
ourselves, it will be a battle for the rest of our life, but well worth it.
I had another one, but now I can't remember what it was; I guess that's
enough for now anyway! I've rambled long enough.
TIA,
Wanda
--
The only true wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing.
Socrates
.
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| User: "Wanda" |
|
| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible |
01 Oct 2004 04:38:38 PM |
|
|
"John D Newport" <johndnewport@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:wWL6d.8440$Wu1.5363@trnddc02...
"Wanda" <w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:xOG6d.456304$OB3.156559@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
John,
Thank you for your response. I have a question about this part though:
Sin is anything short of absolute perfection and there is only one person
that is perfect, our Lord Jesus Christ. He gave us a great gift, he died
to pay the eternal penalty for sin. In general, we still will suffer the
natural
consequences of our sins, but the eternal debt to God is paid,
forgiven, forever.<<
How can sin be 'anything' short of absolute perfection? That would mean that
even if we rigidly follow every commandment in the Bible, and every opinion
voiced in it about how Christians should live, we're still not going to
heaven because we're still sinners. I've always been under the impression
that when we accept Jesus as our Saviour, we are washed clean.
I'm just trying to understand what you're saying; according to this part:
Forgive yourself, love yourself, make an effort to take
good care of your body (temple). When you fail, forgive yourself again,
just like Jesus has, get up and go on trying, again and again, day after
day.<<
no matter what a person does, they are not going to be able to go to heaven,
because they're always going to be sinning; they're never going to be able
to live a life that is acceptable to God. They will have to be continually
forgiven for the wrongs they are *going* to do.
Isn't that kind of defeatist?
I'm definitely not trying to argue with what you said, I'm sure you know
this stuff better than I do, I'm just not sure that I'm understanding it the
way you meant it.
Wanda
.
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| User: "John D Newport" |
|
| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible |
05 Oct 2004 12:27:53 AM |
|
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"Wanda" <w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:y7k7d.468270$OB3.182750@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
"John D Newport" <johndnewport@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:wWL6d.8440$Wu1.5363@trnddc02...
"Wanda" <w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:xOG6d.456304$OB3.156559@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
John,
Thank you for your response. I have a question about this part though:
Sin is anything short of absolute perfection and there is only one
person
that is perfect, our Lord Jesus Christ. He gave us a great gift, he died
to pay the eternal penalty for sin. In general, we still will suffer the
natural
consequences of our sins, but the eternal debt to God is paid,
forgiven, forever.<<
How can sin be 'anything' short of absolute perfection? That would mean
that
even if we rigidly follow every commandment in the Bible, and every
opinion
voiced in it about how Christians should live, we're still not going to
heaven because we're still sinners. I've always been under the impression
that when we accept Jesus as our Saviour, we are washed clean.
Yes, we are still sinners. I do not know what belief was emphasized
when you were brought up, but when we accept Jesus as our Savior,
it is at least implied that you also accept him as your Lord.
In other words, part of the bargain is we promise to try to be obedient
to his will. We also repent or choose to turn away from sinful behavior.
You need to realize that if these follow-up expectations were not
there, even Satan and his demons could choose to accept Jesus
as their Savior. Of course, he cannot accept Jesus as Lord.
If he did, he would be admitting how wrong he has been
and that he will never do.
If you really understand who Jesus is and what he has done for us,
obedience and repentance come easy. Then it does not matter
what version of Christian you are.
There are many that have never come to that point.
They have proclaimed their acceptance of Jesus as Savior
without any real understanding of who he is and what he has done.
Those that have done this are in real trouble. I expect that they are
not saved, but I will let Jesus make that decision. If they are saved,
they are in for appropriate discipline from their perfect heavenly Father.
I'm just trying to understand what you're saying; according to this
part:
Forgive yourself, love yourself, make an effort to take
good care of your body (temple). When you fail, forgive yourself again,
just like Jesus has, get up and go on trying, again and again, day after
day.<<
no matter what a person does, they are not going to be able to go to
heaven,
because they're always going to be sinning; they're never going to be able
to live a life that is acceptable to God. They will have to be continually
forgiven for the wrongs they are *going* to do.
Now for the good part, Jesus's cleansing of us is continuous,
he never stops, at least in this lifetime. When it comes to the
obedience and repentance, he looks at the heart,
not the accomplishments. It is difficult for us to think this way,
but it is easy for Jesus.
Isn't that kind of defeatist?
Sometimes it seems that way, but it is necessary. Our nature
wants to call it defeatist, but remember, we are corrupt,
he is perfect. When we accept Jesus, his perfection as our
Savior is necessary to be our Savior. It is Jesus's perfection
that God the Father sees when he looks at us.
If Jesus is not perfect, he cannot save us. I know,
we want to analyze it all, and we tend to say he did not
do it right, he should have done this or that. If Jesus said it,
it is correct, whether it makes sense to us or not.
That is one place where we practice our faith. That is also why
we must continue to study his word, to make sure that we have
not misunderstood. It is rarely emphasized but we need to
remember that we are still under the curse the tower of Babel.
Our language is still confused and changing. Despite the efforts
of many translators, even a perfect translation is commonly
mistranslated by the reader.
Just watch this newsgroup. You will see many people that
truly love Jesus that are always arguing over what the bible says.
The atheists love it. Some of the arguments get quite nasty.
I'll bet Satan and his demons love it too.
I usually resist answering questions. Much of the time it is just
an athiest that wants to stir up an argument so he can have a good laugh.
In the end, it is OK to disagree with me, I am not perfect, just
forgiven.
I hope that my insight has helped you, not confused you.
I'm definitely not trying to argue with what you said, I'm sure you know
this stuff better than I do, I'm just not sure that I'm understanding it
the
way you meant it.
Wanda
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible |
03 Oct 2004 07:42:38 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:38:38 GMT, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, "Wanda"
<w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> yodeled:
"John D Newport" <johndnewport@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:wWL6d.8440$Wu1.5363@trnddc02...
"Wanda" <w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:xOG6d.456304$OB3.156559@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
John,
Thank you for your response. I have a question about this part though:
Sin is anything short of absolute perfection and there is only one person
that is perfect, our Lord Jesus Christ. He gave us a great gift, he died
to pay the eternal penalty for sin. In general, we still will suffer the
natural
consequences of our sins, but the eternal debt to God is paid,
forgiven, forever.<<
How can sin be 'anything' short of absolute perfection? That would mean that
even if we rigidly follow every commandment in the Bible, and every opinion
voiced in it about how Christians should live, we're still not going to
heaven because we're still sinners. I've always been under the impression
that when we accept Jesus as our Saviour, we are washed clean.
I'm just trying to understand what you're saying; according to this part:
Forgive yourself, love yourself, make an effort to take
good care of your body (temple). When you fail, forgive yourself again,
just like Jesus has, get up and go on trying, again and again, day after
day.<<
no matter what a person does, they are not going to be able to go to heaven,
because they're always going to be sinning; they're never going to be able
to live a life that is acceptable to God. They will have to be continually
forgiven for the wrongs they are *going* to do.
Isn't that kind of defeatist?
I'm definitely not trying to argue with what you said, I'm sure you know
this stuff better than I do, I'm just not sure that I'm understanding it the
way you meant it.
The fact that you cannot be sinless of your own accord,
is exactly why Jesus' death and resurrection was
necessary. If we could earn our way to Heaven, then it
wouldn't have been necessary. That is not a license to
sin. Read Ephesians 2:8-10.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/1stcentury/
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,
for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly
furnished unto all good works." - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
"If you don't want to reap the fruits of sin,
sta
.
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| User: "SHAQAD" |
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| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible |
30 Sep 2004 12:31:09 AM |
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|
Hi Wanda,
Get a FREE e-Bible from www.e-sword.net it works on/off line and has many
other helpful features.
"the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge".
You can use a search tool to find any word or phrase too, it is the best
layout availiable, Great for Bible study. For instance "smoking" brings up 5
verses in the KJV Bible:
Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was
dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those
pieces.
Exo 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and
the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw
it, they removed, and stood afar off.
Isa 7:4 And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be
fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce
anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah.
And...
Isa 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he
not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
Mat 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not
quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
From what i have read and understand, Feed the Hungry every chance you get,
and you wont go to hell for smoking,-although if you do it alot you may die
sooner, shortening Gods plan for your life, just like people who eat way too
much-or way too little. Also, it is kind of un-professional to witness with
a marlboro dangling out of your mouth, people dont take you seriously, I
know, I smoke too....Lord have mercy.
I feed people who appear poor or hungry too, meeting them at a nearby fast
food place then eating with them, and talking. I have had some say the most
interesting things.....You just never know, you might meet an Angel of the
Lord, but count on great riches in heaven.
Love God and other people and you have acomplished the whole law.
Shaqad
"Wanda" <w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:xOG6d.456304$OB3.156559@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
1. I'm a very 'giving' person. I'm the type that chooses to be charitable
on
a 'personal' level; I give to the people I see begging, and without
reservation. I don't worry about what they're going to do with it, I just
give. On several occasions I've met people online who had a need, and I
could help so I did. I've been in the store and someone overspent, (like a
mother with children) and I'll give her what she was short. I know that a
lot of Christians preach about tithing, but then if someone comes up to
them
on the street and says they're hungry, the so-called 'Christian' turns
their
back. A lot of people tell me that I'm crazy because I don't know these
people, they might be drunks or drug addicts just scamming people, but I
feel that it's not up to me to judge people that way. Where in the Bible
can
I find things on this subject, on charity and what Christians should do?
2. I've been a smoker since I was about 13 years old. (I'm 45) I'm always
hearing that Christians should not smoke because it says in the Bible not
to. When I ask where, I'm pointed to passages which mention that we are
made
in His image, and/or that we are God's temple. No one has ever shown me
anything which, to me, directly or indirectly says anything about smoking.
I
know it says something about not becoming intoxicated, but it's talking
about drinking; is there anything about smoking?
I had another one, but now I can't remember what it was; I guess that's
enough for now anyway! I've rambled long enough.
TIA,
Wanda
--
The only true wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing.
Socrates
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG antivirus software.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/04
.
|
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible |
30 Sep 2004 01:03:43 AM |
|
|
SHAQAD wrote:
Hi Wanda,
Get a FREE e-Bible from www.e-sword.net it works on/off line and has many
other helpful features.
"the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge".
You can use a search tool to find any word or phrase too, it is the best
layout availiable, Great for Bible study. For instance "smoking" brings up 5
verses in the KJV Bible:
Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was
dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those
pieces.
Exo 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and
the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw
it, they removed, and stood afar off.
Isa 7:4 And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be
fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce
anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah.
And...
Isa 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he
not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
Mat 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not
quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
I think she is referring to smoking of cigarettes!
Typical word twisting, so necessary when trying to justify the work of early
fable writers!
From what i have read and understand, Feed the Hungry every chance you get,
and you wont go to hell for smoking,-although if you do it alot you may die
sooner, shortening Gods plan for your life, just like people who eat way too
much-or way too little. Also, it is kind of un-professional to witness with
a marlboro dangling out of your mouth, people dont take you seriously, I
know, I smoke too....Lord have mercy.
I feed people who appear poor or hungry too, meeting them at a nearby fast
food place then eating with them, and talking. I have had some say the most
interesting things.....You just never know, you might meet an Angel of the
Lord, but count on great riches in heaven.
Love God and other people and you have acomplished the whole law.
Shaqad
"Wanda" <w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:xOG6d.456304$OB3.156559@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
1. I'm a very 'giving' person. I'm the type that chooses to be charitable
on
a 'personal' level; I give to the people I see begging, and without
reservation. I don't worry about what they're going to do with it, I just
give. On several occasions I've met people online who had a need, and I
could help so I did. I've been in the store and someone overspent, (like a
mother with children) and I'll give her what she was short. I know that a
lot of Christians preach about tithing, but then if someone comes up to
them
on the street and says they're hungry, the so-called 'Christian' turns
their
back. A lot of people tell me that I'm crazy because I don't know these
people, they might be drunks or drug addicts just scamming people, but I
feel that it's not up to me to judge people that way. Where in the Bible
can
I find things on this subject, on charity and what Christians should do?
2. I've been a smoker since I was about 13 years old. (I'm 45) I'm always
hearing that Christians should not smoke because it says in the Bible not
to. When I ask where, I'm pointed to passages which mention that we are
made
in His image, and/or that we are God's temple. No one has ever shown me
anything which, to me, directly or indirectly says anything about smoking.
I
know it says something about not becoming intoxicated, but it's talking
about drinking; is there anything about smoking?
I had another one, but now I can't remember what it was; I guess that's
enough for now anyway! I've rambled long enough.
TIA,
Wanda
--
The only true wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing.
Socrates
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG antivirus software.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/04
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible |
01 Oct 2004 08:45:44 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:37:17 GMT, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, "Wanda"
<w-jackson@worldnet.att.net> yodeled:
I'm a 'newbie' here at alt.bible; matter of fact, I guess I'm a 'newbie'
about all of this Christian stuff. I mean, I was raised with a Methodist
minister for a father, my mother later became a Baptist minister, (after
they divorced) my grandmother was a minister, my great-grandfather was
one....and it seemed like everyone else was involved in some way with the
church. I've always believed in the existence of God, and in His ability to
perform miracles, and I've always believed that the Bible really is the Word
of God. On a personal level though, I don't think I ever really thought that
His love included me. I've had a pretty rough life, and I guess I figured He
couldn't love someone like me. (At other times I figured He must not love me
too much if He let me go through all I went through.) As I've gotten older
though, I've kind of changed my mind about a lot of things; recently I've
begun to feel a need to really explore this.
Okay, enough background; here's my questions.
1. I'm a very 'giving' person. I'm the type that chooses to be charitable on
a 'personal' level; I give to the people I see begging, and without
reservation. I don't worry about what they're going to do with it, I just
give. On several occasions I've met people online who had a need, and I
could help so I did. I've been in the store and someone overspent, (like a
mother with children) and I'll give her what she was short. I know that a
lot of Christians preach about tithing, but then if someone comes up to them
on the street and says they're hungry, the so-called 'Christian' turns their
back. A lot of people tell me that I'm crazy because I don't know these
people, they might be drunks or drug addicts just scamming people, but I
feel that it's not up to me to judge people that way. Where in the Bible can
I find things on this subject, on charity and what Christians should do?
It is good that you like to give of yourself. A fine
quality indeed. However, works do not save us.
Matthew 7:22-23
22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have
we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have
cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful
works?
23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew
you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't do them, mind you. I
am saying that we are not saved by them.
"Unless a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom
of God." - John 3:3
This was a statement made by Jesus, to a religious
leader. It is a spiritual rebirth that is necessary.
This is a free gift from the Lord. Ask God to have
mercy on you and forgive your sins and save you. Ask
Jesus to come into your heart and change you. Accept
Him as Lord and Saviour. And don't forget the "Lord"
part and what that means. :) You must give your life
to Christ and submit to Him and follow Him wherever He
leads you. Too many people think that it is a "Saviour
only" thing, like it's a "Get out of Hell free card".
It isn't. People like to accept Jesus as their
Saviour, as long as He doesn't interfere with their
lives. Interfering with lives, is exactly what Jesus
will do. :) Those people are not saved. They are
playing with the Lord and He doesn't take kindly to it.
Also read Ephesians 2:8-10. Note that works that mean
anything, as it says in v10 are a RESULT of the saving
faith. They FOLLOW salvation. They do not save, but
we are called to do them.
2. I've been a smoker since I was about 13 years old. (I'm 45) I'm always
hearing that Christians should not smoke because it says in the Bible not
to. When I ask where, I'm pointed to passages which mention that we are made
in His image, and/or that we are God's temple. No one has ever shown me
anything which, to me, directly or indirectly says anything about smoking. I
know it says something about not becoming intoxicated, but it's talking
about drinking; is there anything about smoking?
Smoking is wrong, since it harms the temple of God
(1 Cor 3:16-17).
I had another one, but now I can't remember what it was; I guess that's
enough for now anyway! I've rambled long enough.
Well, post it later. :)
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,
for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly
furnished unto all good works." - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that
genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible |
30 Sep 2004 01:01:33 AM |
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Wanda wrote:
I'm a 'newbie' here at alt.bible; matter of fact, I guess I'm a 'newbie'
about all of this Christian stuff. I mean, I was raised with a Methodist
minister for a father, my mother later became a Baptist minister, (after
they divorced) my grandmother was a minister, my great-grandfather was
one....and it seemed like everyone else was involved in some way with the
church. I've always believed in the existence of God, and in His ability to
perform miracles, and I've always believed that the Bible really is the Word
of God. On a personal level though, I don't think I ever really thought that
His love included me. I've had a pretty rough life, and I guess I figured He
couldn't love someone like me. (At other times I figured He must not love me
too much if He let me go through all I went through.) As I've gotten older
though, I've kind of changed my mind about a lot of things; recently I've
begun to feel a need to really explore this.
Okay, enough background; here's my questions.
1. I'm a very 'giving' person. I'm the type that chooses to be charitable on
a 'personal' level; I give to the people I see begging, and without
reservation. I don't worry about what they're going to do with it, I just
give. On several occasions I've met people online who had a need, and I
could help so I did. I've been in the store and someone overspent, (like a
mother with children) and I'll give her what she was short. I know that a
lot of Christians preach about tithing, but then if someone comes up to them
on the street and says they're hungry, the so-called 'Christian' turns their
back. A lot of people tell me that I'm crazy because I don't know these
people, they might be drunks or drug addicts just scamming people, but I
feel that it's not up to me to judge people that way. Where in the Bible can
I find things on this subject, on charity and what Christians should do?
2. I've been a smoker since I was about 13 years old. (I'm 45) I'm always
hearing that Christians should not smoke because it says in the Bible not
to. When I ask where, I'm pointed to passages which mention that we are made
in His image, and/or that we are God's temple.
We are asked to justify these frightful passages, these infamous laws of war,
because the Bible is the word of God. As a matter of fact, there never was,
and there never can be, an argument even tending to prove the inspiration of
any book whatever. In the absence of positive evidence, analogy and
experience, argument is simply impossible, and at the very
best, can amount only to a useless agitation of the air. The instant we admit
that a book is too sacred to be doubted, or even reasoned about, we are mental
serfs. It is infinitely absurd to suppose that a god would address a
communication to intelligent beings, and yet make it a crime, to be punished in
eternal flames, for them to use their intelligence for the purpose of
understanding his communication. If we have the right to use our reason, we
certainly have the right to act in accordance with it, and no god can have the
right to punish us for such action.
[Robert Green Ingersoll]
No one has ever shown me
anything which, to me, directly or indirectly says anything about smoking. I
know it says something about not becoming intoxicated, but it's talking
about drinking; is there anything about smoking?
I had another one, but now I can't remember what it was; I guess that's
enough for now anyway! I've rambled long enough.
TIA,
Wanda
--
The only true wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing.
Socrates
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| User: "SHAQAD" |
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| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible |
01 Oct 2004 12:12:19 AM |
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Theese were eyewitness giving account, not a clever fable.
2Pe 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known
to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were
eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the
voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with
whom I am well pleased,"
2Pe 1:18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were
with him on the holy mountain.
God will have mercy on who ever He wants to, For he said to Moses, "I will
have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I
will have compassion".
Just maybe, if He likes you enough, He will have mercy on you, even if you
dont believe He even exists.
Shaqad
---------------------------------------------------------
Get a FREE e-Bible from www.e-sword.net it works on/off line and has many
other helpful features.
the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge.
---------------------------------------------------------
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:415BA13D.F1F6B6F7@netvigator.com...
Wanda wrote:
I'm a 'newbie' here at alt.bible; matter of fact, I guess I'm a 'newbie'
about all of this Christian stuff. I mean, I was raised with a Methodist
minister for a father, my mother later became a Baptist minister, (after
they divorced) my grandmother was a minister, my great-grandfather was
one....and it seemed like everyone else was involved in some way with
the
church. I've always believed in the existence of God, and in His ability
to
perform miracles, and I've always believed that the Bible really is the
Word
of God. On a personal level though, I don't think I ever really thought
that
His love included me. I've had a pretty rough life, and I guess I
figured He
couldn't love someone like me. (At other times I figured He must not
love me
too much if He let me go through all I went through.) As I've gotten
older
though, I've kind of changed my mind about a lot of things; recently
I've
begun to feel a need to really explore this.
Okay, enough background; here's my questions.
1. I'm a very 'giving' person. I'm the type that chooses to be
charitable on
a 'personal' level; I give to the people I see begging, and without
reservation. I don't worry about what they're going to do with it, I
just
give. On several occasions I've met people online who had a need, and I
could help so I did. I've been in the store and someone overspent, (like
a
mother with children) and I'll give her what she was short. I know that
a
lot of Christians preach about tithing, but then if someone comes up to
them
on the street and says they're hungry, the so-called 'Christian' turns
their
back. A lot of people tell me that I'm crazy because I don't know these
people, they might be drunks or drug addicts just scamming people, but I
feel that it's not up to me to judge people that way. Where in the Bible
can
I find things on this subject, on charity and what Christians should do?
2. I've been a smoker since I was about 13 years old. (I'm 45) I'm
always
hearing that Christians should not smoke because it says in the Bible
not
to. When I ask where, I'm pointed to passages which mention that we are
made
in His image, and/or that we are God's temple.
We are asked to justify these frightful passages, these infamous laws of
war,
because the Bible is the word of God. As a matter of fact, there never
was,
and there never can be, an argument even tending to prove the inspiration
of
any book whatever. In the absence of positive evidence, analogy and
experience, argument is simply impossible, and at the very
best, can amount only to a useless agitation of the air. The instant we
admit
that a book is too sacred to be doubted, or even reasoned about, we are
mental
serfs. It is infinitely absurd to suppose that a god would address a
communication to intelligent beings, and yet make it a crime, to be
punished in
eternal flames, for them to use their intelligence for the purpose of
understanding his communication. If we have the right to use our reason,
we
certainly have the right to act in accordance with it, and no god can have
the
right to punish us for such action.
[Robert Green Ingersoll]
No one has ever shown me
anything which, to me, directly or indirectly says anything about
smoking. I
know it says something about not becoming intoxicated, but it's talking
about drinking; is there anything about smoking?
I had another one, but now I can't remember what it was; I guess that's
enough for now anyway! I've rambled long enough.
TIA,
Wanda
--
The only true wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing.
Socrates
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG antivirus software.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/04
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible -- MYTHS |
01 Oct 2004 12:27:13 PM |
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SHAQAD wrote:
Theese were eyewitness giving account, not a clever fable.
2Pe 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths
===>So, you accept the opinion of a phony writer fraudulently writing in
the name of "Peter" as FACT?
Do you realize 2 Peter was not accepted by the early Christian churches?
EUSEBIUS wrote:
"And Peter, on whom the Church of Christ is built,
'against which the gates of hell shall not prevail,'
has left one acknowledged epistle;
perhaps also a second, but this is disputed." (HE 6.25.8)
Eusebius lists two reasons:
(1) writers whom he respected did not regard it as canonical,
(2) it was never quoted by what he calls 'the ancient presbyters'.
The author is writing at a time when there is an apparent Church
structure and when the promises made by Saul/Paul about the
imminent coming of Christ in his lifetime was already known
to have not happened. -- L.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible |
07 Oct 2004 12:28:12 AM |
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Don't bother to question the bible - question your sanity!
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| User: "SHAQAD" |
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| Title: Re: Some questions on the Bible |
10 Oct 2004 12:35:33 AM |
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Dear Wanda,
Its time for me to quit.
--Shaqad
---------------------------------------------------------
Get a FREE e-Bible from www.e-sword.net it works on/off line and has many
other helpful features.
the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge.
---------------------------------------------------------
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG antivirus software.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/04
.
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