| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"David W. Barnes" |
| Date: |
10 Dec 2004 08:39:21 PM |
| Object: |
Sound Familiar? |
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders
of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple
matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no
voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the
country to greater danger."
No - it isn't the Republicans, or the White House. It was Herman
Goering at the Nuremberg trials.
.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
12 Dec 2004 05:48:41 PM |
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"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders were
opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But not
everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of the
Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve of
the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise the
Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution. He saw nothing
constitutional about the concept of welfare.
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
12 Dec 2004 06:23:10 PM |
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In article <1102895321.da2f10baf6bfe7a322cc614b32bb82a8@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders were
opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But not
everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of the
Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve of
the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise the
Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution. He saw nothing
constitutional about the concept of welfare.
Trying reading it, for once.
.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
12 Dec 2004 06:31:38 PM |
|
|
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101847%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102895321.da2f10baf6bfe7a322cc614b32bb82a8@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of the
Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve of
the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise the
Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution. He saw nothing
constitutional about the concept of welfare.
Trying reading it, for once.
I guess the founding fathers didn't support a welfare state after all.
.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
12 Dec 2004 05:40:53 PM |
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"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders were
opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But not
everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of the
Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve of
the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise the
Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution. He saw nothing constitution
about the concept of welfare.
.
|
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
12 Dec 2004 06:23:10 PM |
|
|
In article <1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders were
opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But not
everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of the
Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve of
the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise the
Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it. The lies just keep coming with you, don't
they?
He saw nothing constitution
about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
12 Dec 2004 06:36:05 PM |
|
|
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of the
Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve of
the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise the
Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution
which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence,
the money of their constituents." --James Madison, father of the Constitution
.
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
13 Dec 2004 05:15:48 AM |
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Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of the
Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve of
the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise the
Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution
which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence,
the money of their constituents." --James Madison, father of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means in this
quote. Do you think Madison would have been against publicly funded fire
departments? They seem pretty benevolent to me. Are we referring to programs,
or physical objects? Maybe he was talking about building statues.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he wishes he
would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or any other of a million
interpretations.
Your Madison quote could be taken in any of a million ways. I personally
haven't studied this one so I have NO idea what he was saying. Do you have any
evidence that your interpretation is correct?
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
13 Dec 2004 08:24:02 AM |
|
|
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:keuqr0pkj7c0k0cakhmoofg2e7ns878pkb@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of
the Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve of
the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise the
Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution
which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of
benevolence, the money of their constituents." --James Madison, father
of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means in
this quote. Do you think Madison would have been against publicly funded
fire departments? They seem pretty benevolent to me. Are we referring to
programs, or physical objects? Maybe he was talking about building
statues.
He was referring to appropriating $15,000 to assist some French refugees.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he wishes
he would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or any other of
a million interpretations.
It means that he cannot find anything in the Constitution that would allow
such an action.
.
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
13 Dec 2004 03:19:32 PM |
|
|
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:keuqr0pkj7c0k0cakhmoofg2e7ns878pkb@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of
the Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve of
the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise the
Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution
which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of
benevolence, the money of their constituents." --James Madison, father
of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means in
this quote. Do you think Madison would have been against publicly funded
fire departments? They seem pretty benevolent to me. Are we referring to
programs, or physical objects? Maybe he was talking about building
statues.
He was referring to appropriating $15,000 to assist some French refugees.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he wishes
he would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or any other of
a million interpretations.
It means that he cannot find anything in the Constitution that would allow
such an action.
Okay, so Madison was against foreign aid. So am I in many situations. You seem
to be extrapolating an awful lot from his statement.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
.
|
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| User: "Gactimus" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
13 Dec 2004 03:41:58 PM |
|
|
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0q1sr0p1c628kkimr7sk6drrdlsjlr68ls@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:keuqr0pkj7c0k0cakhmoofg2e7ns878pkb@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>, Gactimus
<gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of
the Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve
of the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise
the Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on
it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." --James
Madison, father of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means in
this quote. Do you think Madison would have been against publicly
funded fire departments? They seem pretty benevolent to me. Are we
referring to programs, or physical objects? Maybe he was talking about
building statues.
He was referring to appropriating $15,000 to assist some French
refugees.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he wishes
he would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or any other
of a million interpretations.
It means that he cannot find anything in the Constitution that would
allow such an action.
Okay, so Madison was against foreign aid. So am I in many situations.
You seem to be extrapolating an awful lot from his statement.
It has nothing to do with foreign aid. The French refugees were in the
United States. He is objecting to an unconstitutional use of money.
It's great to want to help people, but our Constitution does not authorize
Congress to do so. Their spending authority is itemized in Article I,
Section 8 of the Constitution.
.
|
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
13 Dec 2004 09:15:31 PM |
|
|
In article <1102974118.1eb54193f600eb2c0550f3a230be0c3b@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0q1sr0p1c628kkimr7sk6drrdlsjlr68ls@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:keuqr0pkj7c0k0cakhmoofg2e7ns878pkb@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>, Gactimus
<gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of
the Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve
of the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise
the Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on
it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." --James
Madison, father of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means in
this quote. Do you think Madison would have been against publicly
funded fire departments? They seem pretty benevolent to me. Are we
referring to programs, or physical objects? Maybe he was talking about
building statues.
He was referring to appropriating $15,000 to assist some French
refugees.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he wishes
he would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or any other
of a million interpretations.
It means that he cannot find anything in the Constitution that would
allow such an action.
Okay, so Madison was against foreign aid. So am I in many situations.
You seem to be extrapolating an awful lot from his statement.
It has nothing to do with foreign aid. The French refugees were in the
United States. He is objecting to an unconstitutional use of money.
It's great to want to help people, but our Constitution does not authorize
Congress to do so. Their spending authority is itemized in Article I,
Section 8 of the Constitution.'
Selective reading. I take it you feel we are not currently at war?
.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
14 Dec 2004 08:38:45 AM |
|
|
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:131220041915316741%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102974118.1eb54193f600eb2c0550f3a230be0c3b@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0q1sr0p1c628kkimr7sk6drrdlsjlr68ls@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:keuqr0pkj7c0k0cakhmoofg2e7ns878pkb@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot
flames, and screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The
founders were opposed to using government money for
benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending,
on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal.
But not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author
of the Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so.
Twelve of the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to
revise the Articles of Confederation and the whole convention
worked on it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." --James
Madison, father of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means
in this quote. Do you think Madison would have been against
publicly funded fire departments? They seem pretty benevolent to
me. Are we referring to programs, or physical objects? Maybe he was
talking about building statues.
He was referring to appropriating $15,000 to assist some French
refugees.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he
wishes he would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or
any other of a million interpretations.
It means that he cannot find anything in the Constitution that would
allow such an action.
Okay, so Madison was against foreign aid. So am I in many situations.
You seem to be extrapolating an awful lot from his statement.
It has nothing to do with foreign aid. The French refugees were in the
United States. He is objecting to an unconstitutional use of money.
It's great to want to help people, but our Constitution does not
authorize Congress to do so. Their spending authority is itemized in
Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.'
Selective reading
is what you do best.
.
|
|
|
| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
14 Dec 2004 09:52:12 PM |
|
|
In article <1103035125.7a1dcb1361144623f26e98653f7eb36e@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:131220041915316741%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102974118.1eb54193f600eb2c0550f3a230be0c3b@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0q1sr0p1c628kkimr7sk6drrdlsjlr68ls@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:keuqr0pkj7c0k0cakhmoofg2e7ns878pkb@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot
flames, and screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The
founders were opposed to using government money for
benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending,
on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal.
But not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author
of the Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so.
Twelve of the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to
revise the Articles of Confederation and the whole convention
worked on it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." --James
Madison, father of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means
in this quote. Do you think Madison would have been against
publicly funded fire departments? They seem pretty benevolent to
me. Are we referring to programs, or physical objects? Maybe he was
talking about building statues.
He was referring to appropriating $15,000 to assist some French
refugees.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he
wishes he would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or
any other of a million interpretations.
It means that he cannot find anything in the Constitution that would
allow such an action.
Okay, so Madison was against foreign aid. So am I in many situations.
You seem to be extrapolating an awful lot from his statement.
It has nothing to do with foreign aid. The French refugees were in the
United States. He is objecting to an unconstitutional use of money.
It's great to want to help people, but our Constitution does not
authorize Congress to do so. Their spending authority is itemized in
Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.'
Selective reading
is what you do best.
<Yawn> Childish, aren't you?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Zaghadka" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
14 Dec 2004 07:05:30 AM |
|
|
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <1102974118.1eb54193f600eb2c0550f3a230be0c3b@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0q1sr0p1c628kkimr7sk6drrdlsjlr68ls@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:keuqr0pkj7c0k0cakhmoofg2e7ns878pkb@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>, Gactimus
<gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of
the Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve
of the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise
the Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on
it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." --James
Madison, father of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means in
this quote. Do you think Madison would have been against publicly
funded fire departments? They seem pretty benevolent to me. Are we
referring to programs, or physical objects? Maybe he was talking about
building statues.
He was referring to appropriating $15,000 to assist some French
refugees.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he wishes
he would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or any other
of a million interpretations.
It means that he cannot find anything in the Constitution that would
allow such an action.
Okay, so Madison was against foreign aid. So am I in many situations.
You seem to be extrapolating an awful lot from his statement.
It has nothing to do with foreign aid. The French refugees were in the
United States. He is objecting to an unconstitutional use of money.
It's great to want to help people, but our Constitution does not authorize
Congress to do so. Their spending authority is itemized in Article I,
Section 8 of the Constitution.'
Selective reading. I take it you feel we are not currently at war?
Check *and* mate, dude.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
.
|
|
|
| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
14 Dec 2004 09:52:11 PM |
|
|
In article <e8ptr01vmc71kg7hsmul0pqkeuui6v7s9d@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <1102974118.1eb54193f600eb2c0550f3a230be0c3b@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0q1sr0p1c628kkimr7sk6drrdlsjlr68ls@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:keuqr0pkj7c0k0cakhmoofg2e7ns878pkb@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>, Gactimus
<gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of
the Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve
of the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise
the Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on
it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." --James
Madison, father of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means in
this quote. Do you think Madison would have been against publicly
funded fire departments? They seem pretty benevolent to me. Are we
referring to programs, or physical objects? Maybe he was talking about
building statues.
He was referring to appropriating $15,000 to assist some French
refugees.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he wishes
he would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or any other
of a million interpretations.
It means that he cannot find anything in the Constitution that would
allow such an action.
Okay, so Madison was against foreign aid. So am I in many situations.
You seem to be extrapolating an awful lot from his statement.
It has nothing to do with foreign aid. The French refugees were in the
United States. He is objecting to an unconstitutional use of money.
It's great to want to help people, but our Constitution does not authorize
Congress to do so. Their spending authority is itemized in Article I,
Section 8 of the Constitution.'
Selective reading. I take it you feel we are not currently at war?
Check *and* mate, dude.
Clarify, please.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Zaghadka" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
15 Dec 2004 02:39:50 AM |
|
|
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <e8ptr01vmc71kg7hsmul0pqkeuui6v7s9d@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <1102974118.1eb54193f600eb2c0550f3a230be0c3b@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0q1sr0p1c628kkimr7sk6drrdlsjlr68ls@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:keuqr0pkj7c0k0cakhmoofg2e7ns878pkb@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>, Gactimus
<gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of
the Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve
of the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise
the Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on
it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." --James
Madison, father of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means in
this quote. Do you think Madison would have been against publicly
funded fire departments? They seem pretty benevolent to me. Are we
referring to programs, or physical objects? Maybe he was talking about
building statues.
He was referring to appropriating $15,000 to assist some French
refugees.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he wishes
he would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or any other
of a million interpretations.
It means that he cannot find anything in the Constitution that would
allow such an action.
Okay, so Madison was against foreign aid. So am I in many situations.
You seem to be extrapolating an awful lot from his statement.
It has nothing to do with foreign aid. The French refugees were in the
United States. He is objecting to an unconstitutional use of money.
It's great to want to help people, but our Constitution does not authorize
Congress to do so. Their spending authority is itemized in Article I,
Section 8 of the Constitution.'
Selective reading. I take it you feel we are not currently at war?
Check *and* mate, dude.
Clarify, please.
I mean that if you and Gactimus are playing chess, you win. Unequivocally.
It comes from too much competitive formal debate in my life. I know this isn't
actually a competition.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
.
|
|
|
| User: "David W. Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
15 Dec 2004 09:20:15 PM |
|
|
In article <60uvr05t7ftfqjj7a8s2apev8ea8pqhlvf@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <e8ptr01vmc71kg7hsmul0pqkeuui6v7s9d@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot
flames,
and screamed...
In article <1102974118.1eb54193f600eb2c0550f3a230be0c3b@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0q1sr0p1c628kkimr7sk6drrdlsjlr68ls@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:keuqr0pkj7c0k0cakhmoofg2e7ns878pkb@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot
flames,
and screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus
<gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The
founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent
causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending,
on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal.
But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author
of
the Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so.
Twelve
of the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise
the Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on
it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." --James
Madison, father of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means in
this quote. Do you think Madison would have been against publicly
funded fire departments? They seem pretty benevolent to me. Are we
referring to programs, or physical objects? Maybe he was talking
about
building statues.
He was referring to appropriating $15,000 to assist some French
refugees.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he
wishes
he would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or any other
of a million interpretations.
It means that he cannot find anything in the Constitution that would
allow such an action.
Okay, so Madison was against foreign aid. So am I in many situations.
You seem to be extrapolating an awful lot from his statement.
It has nothing to do with foreign aid. The French refugees were in the
United States. He is objecting to an unconstitutional use of money.
It's great to want to help people, but our Constitution does not
authorize
Congress to do so. Their spending authority is itemized in Article I,
Section 8 of the Constitution.'
Selective reading. I take it you feel we are not currently at war?
Check *and* mate, dude.
Clarify, please.
I mean that if you and Gactimus are playing chess, you win. Unequivocally.
Got it. Here is another example. According to a very specific reading
of the Constitution, Bush isn't the Commander and Chief of the Marines
or Air Force. I wonder how Bush feels about that?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Zaghadka" |
|
| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
16 Dec 2004 01:35:51 AM |
|
|
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <60uvr05t7ftfqjj7a8s2apev8ea8pqhlvf@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <e8ptr01vmc71kg7hsmul0pqkeuui6v7s9d@4ax.com>, Zaghadka
<zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot
flames,
and screamed...
In article <1102974118.1eb54193f600eb2c0550f3a230be0c3b@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0q1sr0p1c628kkimr7sk6drrdlsjlr68ls@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:keuqr0pkj7c0k0cakhmoofg2e7ns878pkb@4ax.com:
Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot
flames,
and screamed...
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041623101824%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102894853.a3c8bab72184026fb617e51f8d97e3e0@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041525465169%spam@aol.com:
In article
<1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus
<gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The
founders
were opposed to using government money for benevolent
causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending,
on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal.
But
not everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author
of
the Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so.
Twelve
of the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise
the Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on
it.
James Madison was the father of the Constitution.
You said he authored it.
I corrected myself.
He saw nothing constitution about the concept of welfare.
Except when the actual word was used?
Not welfare as you imagine it.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on
objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." --James
Madison, father of the Constitution
Unfortunately, I have no idea what "objects of benevolence" means in
this quote. Do you think Madison would have been against publicly
funded fire departments? They seem pretty benevolent to me. Are we
referring to programs, or physical objects? Maybe he was talking
about
building statues.
He was referring to appropriating $15,000 to assist some French
refugees.
Hell, what does "I cannot undertake" mean? Does it mean that he
wishes
he would, or that God demands that he cannot undertake, or any other
of a million interpretations.
It means that he cannot find anything in the Constitution that would
allow such an action.
Okay, so Madison was against foreign aid. So am I in many situations.
You seem to be extrapolating an awful lot from his statement.
It has nothing to do with foreign aid. The French refugees were in the
United States. He is objecting to an unconstitutional use of money.
It's great to want to help people, but our Constitution does not
authorize
Congress to do so. Their spending authority is itemized in Article I,
Section 8 of the Constitution.'
Selective reading. I take it you feel we are not currently at war?
Check *and* mate, dude.
Clarify, please.
I mean that if you and Gactimus are playing chess, you win. Unequivocally.
Got it. Here is another example. According to a very specific reading
of the Constitution, Bush isn't the Commander and Chief of the Marines
or Air Force. I wonder how Bush feels about that?
*****, I would imagine. But then again, he seems like the kind of guy who
is frequently *****. I don't buy his little act, I buy the way he couldn't
contain himself in that first debate. What an *****.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
13 Dec 2004 05:10:38 AM |
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David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames,
and screamed...
In article <1102891403.d7fb2c572c8b6fbdbb30c2cfab068877@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041252112296%spam@aol.com:
"promote the general welfare"
Which has nothing ot do with the welfare state. The founders were
opposed to using government money for benevolent causes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Says you.
Says Thomas Jefferson.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the
Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects
of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Point? Thomas Jefferson was a great man. A great liberal. But not
everything he said became law.
My mistake. The quote was actually from James Madison, author of the
Constitution.
Now one person wrote the Constitution? I don't think so. Twelve of
the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise the
Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on it.
I believe he meant "Father of the Constitution" which is an apellation often
attributed to Madison because of his critical involvement in the Bill of
Rights. Madison had great influence on the Constitution of the Republic.
Gactimus, you might want to wait a few more seconds before hitting the "post"
button. Seriously.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
13 Dec 2004 05:03:13 AM |
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Ray Fischer bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
What I do know is that America was founded on Liberalism,
Which has nothing in common with modern liberalism.
It had everything in common with modern liberalism.
I don't recall legalized abortion,
"secure the blessings of liberty"
debatable
creating a welfare state,
"promote the general welfare"
debatable
and advancing
the cause of militant homosexuality
"No state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws."
not debatable, but marriage should never have been made a matter of law. It is
a major separation of church and state failure. Sea captains being able to
marry people NEVER made sense to me, instinctually.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "Zaghadka" |
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| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
13 Dec 2004 05:00:30 AM |
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Gactimus bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot flames, and
screamed...
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:cpi1p6$r3n$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0kunr09dnev0aifcm7b30kjh5e1pudll5u@4ax.com:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot
flames, and screamed...
Finally, do you really think the
agenda put foward by the liberals is what is best for America?
Absolutely. The agenda put forward by liberals IS America.
I don't know that the agenda put forth by what Republicans *call*
liberals is any good. I think in many places it isn't.
What I do know is that America was founded on Liberalism,
Which has nothing in common with modern liberalism.
It had everything in common with modern liberalism.
I don't recall legalized abortion, creating a welfare state, and advancing
the cause of militant homosexuality on the Founding Father's agenda.
Militants hurt people. I never worry about catching a bullet from "Buddy the
fag" on my way to the same chapel where he wants to be married.
You're playing fast and loose with the English language, dude.
--
Zag
Guns cause crime
like flies cause garbage
...bumper sticker
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
12 Dec 2004 01:58:17 PM |
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In article <1102876319.0ed2c7b18ab980785fd2d62a3ef2c00d@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:cpi1p6$r3n$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0kunr09dnev0aifcm7b30kjh5e1pudll5u@4ax.com:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white hot
flames, and screamed...
Finally, do you really think the
agenda put foward by the liberals is what is best for America?
Absolutely. The agenda put forward by liberals IS America.
I don't know that the agenda put forth by what Republicans *call*
liberals is any good. I think in many places it isn't.
What I do know is that America was founded on Liberalism,
Which has nothing in common with modern liberalism.
It had everything in common with modern liberalism.
I don't recall legalized abortion, creating a welfare state, and advancing
the cause of militant homosexuality on the Founding Father's agenda.
Abortion was legal then. They didn't need to address it. Besides,
they wrote a Constitution, not every law on the books. Get an
education and get back to us.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
12 Dec 2004 02:22:10 PM |
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"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041158178244%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102876319.0ed2c7b18ab980785fd2d62a3ef2c00d@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:cpi1p6$r3n$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0kunr09dnev0aifcm7b30kjh5e1pudll5u@4ax.com:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white
hot flames, and screamed...
Finally, do you really think the
agenda put foward by the liberals is what is best for America?
Absolutely. The agenda put forward by liberals IS America.
I don't know that the agenda put forth by what Republicans *call*
liberals is any good. I think in many places it isn't.
What I do know is that America was founded on Liberalism,
Which has nothing in common with modern liberalism.
It had everything in common with modern liberalism.
I don't recall legalized abortion, creating a welfare state, and
advancing the cause of militant homosexuality on the Founding Father's
agenda.
Abortion was legal then.
Proof please.
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
12 Dec 2004 02:46:30 PM |
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In article <1102882930.0d09db81aafbbef7ea6f54512560c12d@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041158178244%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102876319.0ed2c7b18ab980785fd2d62a3ef2c00d@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:cpi1p6$r3n$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0kunr09dnev0aifcm7b30kjh5e1pudll5u@4ax.com:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white
hot flames, and screamed...
Finally, do you really think the
agenda put foward by the liberals is what is best for America?
Absolutely. The agenda put forward by liberals IS America.
I don't know that the agenda put forth by what Republicans *call*
liberals is any good. I think in many places it isn't.
What I do know is that America was founded on Liberalism,
Which has nothing in common with modern liberalism.
It had everything in common with modern liberalism.
I don't recall legalized abortion, creating a welfare state, and
advancing the cause of militant homosexuality on the Founding Father's
agenda.
Abortion was legal then.
Proof please.
History.
In the United States, abortion laws began to appear in the 1820s.
Read this:
http://womenshistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa012200.htm
.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
12 Dec 2004 03:21:41 PM |
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"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041246301822%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102882930.0d09db81aafbbef7ea6f54512560c12d@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041158178244%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102876319.0ed2c7b18ab980785fd2d62a3ef2c00d@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:cpi1p6$r3n$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0kunr09dnev0aifcm7b30kjh5e1pudll5u@4ax.com:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white
hot flames, and screamed...
Finally, do you really think the
agenda put foward by the liberals is what is best for America?
Absolutely. The agenda put forward by liberals IS America.
I don't know that the agenda put forth by what Republicans
*call* liberals is any good. I think in many places it isn't.
What I do know is that America was founded on Liberalism,
Which has nothing in common with modern liberalism.
It had everything in common with modern liberalism.
I don't recall legalized abortion, creating a welfare state, and
advancing the cause of militant homosexuality on the Founding
Father's agenda.
Abortion was legal then.
Proof please.
History.
In the United States, abortion laws began to appear in the 1820s.
Read this:
http://womenshistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa012200.htm
Abortion was only legal before the fetus could be felt. Even then the
legality of abortion was a state issue.
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Sound Familiar? |
12 Dec 2004 05:25:44 PM |
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In article <1102886501.9c797b1048dd78f5bd423410740f6f17@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041246301822%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102882930.0d09db81aafbbef7ea6f54512560c12d@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:121220041158178244%spam@aol.com:
In article <1102876319.0ed2c7b18ab980785fd2d62a3ef2c00d@bubbanews>,
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:cpi1p6$r3n$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0kunr09dnev0aifcm7b30kjh5e1pudll5u@4ax.com:
David W. Barnes bolted into alt.world, wreathed in wicked, white
hot flames, and screamed...
Finally, do you really think the
agenda put foward by the liberals is what is best for America?
Absolutely. The agenda put forward by liberals IS America.
I don't know that the agenda put forth by what Republicans
*call* liberals is any good. I think in many places it isn't.
What I do know is that America was founded on Liberalism,
Which has nothing in common with modern liberalism.
It had everything in | | | | | |
