Religions > Bible > Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes pain to heal Reverend Dave.
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"V" |
| Date: |
02 Jul 2007 10:46:26 AM |
| Object: |
Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes pain to heal Reverend Dave. |
V wrote:
"I am grateful for my friends at alt.atheism. And if I can't study
Buddhism with Buddhists after they ban me from their forums, then I
study Buddhism with atheists." One atheist asked how I can study
Buddhism this way? Well, this is not problem at all. A Buddhist
practice in not in books or limited to any one sangha...a successful
Buddhist practice lies within our hearts.
Reverend Dave:
Nah, (Buddhism) lies within right effort, right mindfulness and right
concentration. Funny you (V) should bring up the word "ego". Your
posts all reek of you flaunting yours. And speaking of charity,
wouldn't it be charitable of you to stop posting to alt.atheism? Like
for example your attachment to posting to alt.atheism even though you
are aware that it causes suffering for those who read.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
V:
Thank you for your reply Reverend Dave, I appreciate your comments. I
am eager to answer your questions as well as comment on your
'simplified approach' to Buddhism. And I hope after reading this my
posts 'will reek a little less' and not be so offensive to you.
In your reply you claim I cause people suffering from asking if they
would like some medicine or if they would like their wounds cleaned or
would like a splinter removed from their foot?
I am sorry if such questions cause people suffering. It is not my
intention to hurt others by having my own opinion and offering help to
the needy.
I argue with no one. If I have the truth, I keep it and use it and
share it. If you do not want it that is OK, I make no demands you
adopt it. If I am wrong and you have the truth I adopt it readily and
now I have the truth as well. Wherever the truth is - that is where I
go.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=532.0
We all know there are a wide range of people and mental conditions
that make up society. Some of these people would not be happy unless I
was dead. So, instead of trying to please personalties - we can be
much better off if we just try to please truth. This is where the sage
advice of 'principles before personalties' comes in handy Reverend
Dave. That way we can leave our egos checked at the door and we all
both have a right to exist in peace.
I'm afraid you are confusing right effort with overblown ego Reverend
Dave. I am never dogmatic about anything I write. I always give others
the right to exist as they wish.
But I do offer some tools for them to get better...but again only if
they wish.
That is not ego my friend...it is humanity.
Are we not put on this earth to try and help each other Reverend Dave?
Isn't that why you went into the ministry, to offer comfort and
spiritual guidance to mankind?
No?
Then are we put here to hurt, injure and kill each other Reverend
Dave?
Now, no one can force another to offer help. Nor can any agree on how
much or how little help to offer if one does in fact offer help.
In trying to balance the approach to helping others, I find 'the
golden rule' a good place to start.
See:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/125b41aa8fd2b87b/cf400bdf88ba1701?lnk=gst&q=conundrum&rnum=7&hl=en#cf400bdf88ba1701
Humans are one of the few species that has to be persuaded to not self-
destruct. All other species work towards the flourishing of their
species...unless they come under the control of humans. Then the
animals start to self-destruct as well.
I'd say you are right as well as wrong in your evaluation of my
efforts at causing others suffering.
But this pain is a good one as they are growth pains to bring about a
new life.
Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes pain to heal
Reverend Dave.
But I wonder what sort of 'reverend' you are, for any monastic or
preacher worth his salt would not need to be lectured on such basics
of the spiritual life.
They know 'the spiritual journey is as walking on a razor's edge' as
the Upanishads remind us.
Let me give you an example we all can relate to.
When you take drugs away from an addict or alcohol away from an
alcoholic, it does cause suffering in the beginning. But once they
detox from drugs, alcohol (or hatred in the spiritually sick atheist's
case) they loose the old drug based delusional state of mind that once
ruled them and are now open to a new life based on inner peace.
For further discussion of the mind manacled atheist see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=509.0
In addition, I force my posts on no one Reverend Dave. I am an
ordinary member at alt.atheism and am free to post as I please. Others
are free to respond as they please. And the only decision others have
about my posts is whether to read them and reply or not? "With the
same material one man builds a palace and another only a hovel."
Russell Cromwell.
The parable of the arrow can also be a help to you Reverend Dave with
pointing you in the right direction.
See:
http://www.csis.hku.hk/~bruce/water75.html
And for others that already seem to posses all the knowledge they
need, they can just skip over my posts without any problem. I do no
damage by asking if they are thirsty.
What I do with the multitude of posts that I come across that offer me
little in the area of peace promotion?
I just go onto the next post and leave it in peace.
I suggest you and others do the same and do not let your peace be
disturbed by what anyone writes.
I can tell you I don't.
See my post on justified anger and releasing it Reverend Dave:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=613.0
Sure tearing others down appeals to one's ego and pride, but so did
torturing insects when we were kids Reverend Dave. When we grow up we
need a different way to find self worth.
As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds
and water these seeds within you as well.
As you give so you receive.
Is that from the bible or karma?
No, it is just universal law Reverend Dave.
Do we like to be beaten down?
Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down others, we are headed
in a direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well
as others peace. It takes no energy from me to pass something by and
leave it alone in peace. But it takes my energy as well as my peace to
pick something up to destroy it.
When I posted this paragraph earlier Reverend Dave, an atheist piped
to accuse me of hypocrisy, telling me that I destroy a potato when I
pick it up to eat it.
Natural law dictates I must eat, but there is no law that says I must
spew venom from my mouth to destroy others.
If atheists can get over fishing for red herrings and get onto bigger
fish to fry they will see a world of difference in their peace
practice Reverend Dave.
The destruction of inner peace by destroying potatoes comes about when
I destroy my neighbors crop field of potatoes by poisoning them to
bankrupt him in order to take over his farmland...it does not come
about by eating a potato.
The God of Nature gives me potatoes to eat, the God of inner Peace
tells me to not eat potatoes in excess or to destroy others if I wish
to be at peace. I cannot see either God, I know not how they work, I
just know they are.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
If you have trouble with your own ego demanding you control others
Reverend Dave, remember no one says we have to be the humblest think
on this earth. The only question is did we 'make an effort to be
humble today' if we wish to be truth based and at peace?
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=529.0
I heard a story one time in a Yoga lecture that illustrates this point
of our direction with humility reverend. "Range is of the ego - Form
is of the soul." The only thing we need to be concerned with is how is
our form when it comes to our practice Reverend Dave.
Drawing from secular humanism as well as theist based spiritual
traditions I do ask if other humans I come into contact with would
like a drink and if they are thirsty if they look parched.
I would do the same for a dog, so I would offer no less for you
Reverend Dave.
Lets ask some 'H word' questions to look at our motivational
foundation Reverend Dave.
Do we 'Hurt' others out of 'Hatred' or are our actions fueled by the
need to 'Help Humanity' from our basis of 'Humility' within Reverend
Dave?
When you claim I have a big ego, you again may be confused and instead
of looking at right effort and right actions, you see nothing but
personalities here as our directions both differ.
You see in your limited use of the eightfold path you left out the
most important part of the equation...rightness of direction in our
actions as they affect others.
Funny thing happened to me Reverend Dave, as I was writing this post,
both members of my family asked me separately what I was writing.
I told them I was replying to a 'Reverend Dave' on the topic of
spiritual sickness.
They both asked the same thing - 'Is Reverend Dave a real Reverend?'
I answered them, "I don't know, since he is not one for right speech."
This is the problem Reverend Dave with the spiritually sick, mind
manacled, defiance based atheists. Sure they have plenty of right
concentration, right mindfulness and right effort...but all their
right concentration, right mindfulness and right effort are based in
hatred, lies and sickness.
When we are pointed in the WRONG DIRECTION via our Wrong Actions,
Wrong Speech, Wrong Livelihood, Wrong Intention and Wrong View we can
do great harm to others.
Socrates expressed this in Plato's Crito:
"My friend Crito, your zeal is invaluable, if a right one; but if
wrong, the greater the zeal the greater the evil..."
When you conveniently skirted over the other 5 components of the
eightfold path, you gave away your own direction and hate based agenda
Reverend Dave.
Honor dies were interest lies Reverend Dave and the interest of
atheist is the destruction of religion through their ego based
foundation of hatred and ill will.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=470.0
http://www.churcharson.com/act_now/
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/588a8ee1562bdf70/a0360253fa900f98?lnk=gst&q=finding+comic+relief&rnum=1&hl=en#a0360253fa900f98
The eightfold path is a matched set and the ONLY way it works is as a
matched set Reverend Dave.
1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
Let me leave you with my discussion of a similar topic from an earlier
post.
Maybe something in it for you Reverend Dave. And if you start
practicing the 'entire eightfold path' with a goal to 'bring inner
peace to you and to all mankind,' I guarantee you will make great
progress on your spiritual journey Reverend Dave.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
If you have any further questions Reverend Dave, feel free to write me
direct at
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes painto heal Reverend Dave. |
02 Jul 2007 07:07:01 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:46:26 +0000, V wrote:
I argue with no one.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
Shut up.
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"Behold the foul stench of Skeletor's breakfast burrito!"
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes pain to heal Reverend Dave. |
02 Jul 2007 03:14:35 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:46:26 -0000, V <vfr44@aol.com> wrote:
We all know there are a wide range of people and mental conditions
that make up society. Some of these people would not be happy unless I
was dead. So, instead of trying to please personalties - we can be
much better off if we just try to please truth. This is where the sage
advice of 'principles before personalties' comes in handy Reverend
Dave. That way we can leave our egos checked at the door and we all
both have a right to exist in peace.
I'm afraid you are confusing right effort with overblown ego Reverend
Dave. I am never dogmatic about anything I write. I always give others
the right to exist as they wish.
But I do offer some tools for them to get better...but again only if
they wish.
That is not ego my friend...it is humanity.
HO! <whack!>
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
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| User: "Stan-O" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes pain to heal Reverend Dave. |
02 Jul 2007 07:51:10 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:14:35 -0400, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
That is not ego my friend...it is humanity.
HO! <whack!>
I've seen you post this a couple of times. Has it got something to do
with the Prodigy song "Smack My ***** Up"?
.
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes pain to heal Reverend Dave. |
10 Jul 2007 07:18:32 AM |
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On Jul 2, 8:51?pm, Stan-O <lct...@ungo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:14:35 -0400, raven1
<quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
That is not ego my friend...it is humanity.
HO! <whack!>
I've seen you post this a couple of times. Has it got something to do
with the Prodigy song "Smack My ***** Up"?
No,
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/e68c16f92e062cf4/#
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes painto heal Reverend Dave. |
10 Jul 2007 02:59:06 PM |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 05:18:32 -0700, V wrote:
No
HO!!! <WHACK>
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"Warned you we tried! Listen you did not! Now screwed
we will all be!"
http://www.sequentialpictures.com/moviestarwarsepisode3.html
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes pain to heal Reverend Dave. |
08 Jul 2007 06:52:51 AM |
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On Jul 2, 8:51?pm, Stan-O <lct...@ungo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:14:35 -0400, raven1
<quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
That is not ego my friend...it is humanity.
HO! <whack!>
I've seen you post this a couple of times. Has it got something to do
with the Prodigy song "Smack My ***** Up"?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/e68c16f92e062cf4/6048aa207c13d917?lnk=gst&q=repetition&rnum=1&hl=en#6048aa207c13d917
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes painto heal Reverend Dave. |
08 Jul 2007 10:46:42 AM |
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On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 04:52:51 -0700, V wrote:
On Jul 2, 8:51?pm, Stan-O <lct...@ungo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:14:35 -0400, raven1
<quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
That is not ego my friend...it is humanity.
HO! <whack!>
I've seen you post this a couple of times. Has it got something to do
with the Prodigy song "Smack My ***** Up"?
http://ho.whack
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys
on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING
like Shakespeare!" - Blair Houghton
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes pain to heal Reverend Dave. |
02 Jul 2007 08:45:26 PM |
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On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 20:51:10 -0400, Stan-O <lctaht@ungo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:14:35 -0400, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
That is not ego my friend...it is humanity.
HO! <whack!>
I've seen you post this a couple of times. Has it got something to do
with the Prodigy song "Smack My ***** Up"?
No, it has everything to do with Zen Buddhism.
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
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| User: "Stan-O" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes pain to heal Reverend Dave. |
03 Jul 2007 05:26:16 AM |
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On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 21:45:26 -0400, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 20:51:10 -0400, Stan-O <lctaht@ungo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:14:35 -0400, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
That is not ego my friend...it is humanity.
HO! <whack!>
I've seen you post this a couple of times. Has it got something to do
with the Prodigy song "Smack My ***** Up"?
No, it has everything to do with Zen Buddhism.
OK, but the song was the first thing that popped into my head.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual growth is like first aid...it sometimes causes painto heal Reverend Dave. |
02 Jul 2007 05:28:21 PM |
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V wrote:
V wrote:
<WHACK>
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