Religions > Bible > Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix.
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"V" |
| Date: |
14 Apr 2007 08:38:54 AM |
| Object: |
Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix. |
BG writes
We're all beings made of body and spirit. There is no need to deny a
"God" in order to explain the body and no need to invent a "God" in
order to explain the spirit. We just are. We've always been. We'll
always be.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
V:
Talk of spiritual studies?
Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix.
I am not always referring to organized religion when I use such terms.
Atheist or not, there are many unseen and supernatural mysteries in
the world. The spiritual studies deals with such mysteries, for the
root of spiritualism is that of the unseen and the force behind it
all.
There are many flavors of atheists...natural atheists, personal
atheists, explicit atheists, implicit atheists weak atheists, strong
atheists, discovery atheists, reactionary atheists, indoctrinated
atheists and of course the bad ***** atheists with attitude aka BAAWA
varieties. But the defining characteristic that leads an atheist to
peace is whether they are a 'spiritual based atheist' or 'defiance
based atheist.''
I have to laugh sometimes when I read the fantasies of atheists that
think atheism will take over the world. It would take a different
brand of atheist to persuade many to change if they investigate the
online atheists of the usenet to any degree.
A lot of atheists I run into make their intellect their God. They do
not know that academic smarts are not the same as peace smarts. Until
they can transcend their ego they will never find the answer (peace)
they seek. It is the same for those that think money is all that is
standing between them and happiness. So it goes for the ego and
intellect based person that is devoid of spiritual values. Always
remember...one thing only goes so far with giving a person a good
life.
Seek balance.
Spiritual growth as well as humans are not perfect, but we can all do
better at being humane if we try.
One atheists gave his views on this subject of discussing spiritual
tools to live by:
AK writes:
"What is spirit or spirituality? Without knowing what you mean by the
word, one can't know what you mean. Why study something for which you
not only have no evidence, but not even a definition?"
Yes, spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the
wind is hard to define. Since spiritual matters deal with the unseen
and the unknown, how can we define them perfectly? If we could do that
they would not be spiritual studies. You can't see why one person is
loving and kind and another person is a fiend of perennial shame, hate
and destruction. Nor can you see what made the hate monger change into
a kind and loving human.
We can describe spiritual concepts and the journey that made the
change possible, but it is impossible to put our finger on it all
exactly. Spiritual growth is a journey that is a never ending, an
imperfect process in this life. But just as we can see the effects of
the wind, while being blind to its source; we can most definitely see
the difference in people that incorporate spiritual values within
their lives when compared to people that live a life devoid of any
spiritual values.
Their are many fields of spiritual studies. We can separate the
studies into two main fields; the corporeal and the meta-corporeal.
Some of these studies deal with energy fields, meditative states of
consciousness, out of body and near death accounts, psychic research,
etc. Most of my work is in the corporal realm. I leave the advanced
studies to those better qualified for it than myself. Britain and the
US both have centers for psychic research. Plenty of information is
out there if you are interested in studying it.
"No man is so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other
counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for
a master." Ben Jonson
No one said we have to 'investigate it all,' but we do have to give it
some thought if we wish to be at peace. A Hindu sage once told me
"Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside
forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness
falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies
to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires." As
such without effort the defiance based atheists sinks deeper and
deeper into sickness and tragedy as time goes by.
That is the beauty of being a freethinker. We can think for ourselves.
As such, when we get a toolbox we can decide which tools to use for
the job. Some tools are used a lot, other tools are left alone for the
time being, and still others are trashed when we see they are broken
and useless. Traditional freethinkers do not accept me as one of their
group, since I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to
garner wisdom to live at peace. Traditional freethinkers do not like
anything that comes from religion. Kind of a misnomer isn't it...I'm a
freethinker...but I must block out everything that comes from religion
and spiritual traditions and whatever other prejudice I wish to inject
into the equation?
Psychologist William James once said,
"A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely
rearranging their prejudices."
When we limit prejudice we can open our minds to truth and peace. And
realize the truth of Blake's words that "all deities reside within the
human breast." Yes, if it is religion that an atheists need to adopt,
they only have to look as far as the religion of humanity. But just
paying secular humanism lip service will not do any good. Our talk of
spiritual values must match our actions.
See: http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=380.0
We can also get some insight into 'spiritual' with the classification
of the two main categories that the Catholics define. The first area
deals with material or corporal efforts.
Corporal works of mercy.
To feed the hungry.
To give drink to the thirsty.
To clothe the naked.
To harbour the harbourless.
To visit the sick.
To ransom the captive.
To bury the dead.
Spiritual works of mercy are:
To instruct the ignorant.
To counsel the doubtful.
To admonish sinners.
To bear wrongs patiently.
To forgive offenses willingly.
To comfort the afflicted.
To pray for the living and the dead.
Sometimes spiritual practitioners forget they are spiritual beings
residing in a physical body living in a physical world and must do
work in both spiritual and physical areas to live a balanced and
healthy life.
Change is internal
It seems that many spiritual practitioners get stuck with looking for
hope of change someplace else other than within us. All change is
ultimately internal in nature, but we have hopes that someone else
will do it for us, rather than we doing it ourselves. Even many
religious practitioners feel that any good change in their lives will
come from the outside -- as a gift from God / gods without much effort
from ones own self to change.
Now, some people talk of enlightenment or miracles happening, but even
these areas of great change still must be ultimately rooted inside the
person, as no one can beat them over the head with them and force the
change upon the individual. One thing to be mindful of is that once we
do change life will still not be perfect. As the old Buddhist saying
goes: Before enlightenment you chop wood and carry water ~ After
enlightenment you chop wood and carry water. So, develop all the
positive changes you can in your life, but be sure to look at such
changes in proportion and not as some magic bullet to nirvana. True
happiness and serenity is composed of many qualities and not just
one.
Without spiritual values, the atheist is sunk. The conundrum of the
mind manacled, defiance based, spiritually sick atheist is this. They
need spiritual values to be at peace - yet their own defiance blocks
them from seeking and finding these values.
The atheist that only has a foundation of ego and hate will never find
peace. If any theist questioning their faith should wonder onto
alt.atheism, for instance, they could see this for themselves with
many spiritually sick example members and their projection of this
spiritual sickness and self hate onto others.
What is missing in these atheists lives?
Do they need to get religion?
Not necessarily.
As we see, many people claiming to be religious are just as bad off as
atheists or sometimes worse.
"People that practice religion are worried about going to hell -
people that practice spirituality have already been to hell and don't
want to go back."
Spiritual values is what they are short on.
Such atheists full of defiance and devoid of spiritual values are
'dogmatic skeptics', whereas atheists that are open to spiritual
values are of the order of 'skeptical skeptics.' The spiritual based
atheists have not forgotten 'All Deities reside within the human
breast' as Blake wrote. There is a world of difference between the two
types of atheists...a night and day difference. The spiritual based
atheists 'deifies humanity and peace' the defiance based atheist
'deifies their ego' and loses any connection with humanity and becomes
a haggard, shell of a human.
Also See : http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix. |
14 Apr 2007 07:05:31 PM |
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"V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1176557934.297588.101630@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
BG writes
We're all beings made of body and spirit. There is no need to deny a
"God" in order to explain the body and no need to invent a "God" in
order to explain the spirit. We just are. We've always been. We'll
always be.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
V:
Talk of spiritual studies?
Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix.
Of course they don't!
Atheists deal with the real world as demonstrated by physical facts.
We don't believe in mythical spirits for which there is NO objective
verifiable evidence.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix. |
15 Apr 2007 05:41:12 AM |
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On 15 apr, 02:05, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
"V" <v...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1176557934.297588.101630@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
BG writes
We're all beings made of body and spirit. There is no need to deny a
"God" in order to explain the body and no need to invent a "God" in
order to explain the spirit. We just are. We've always been. We'll
always be.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
V:
Talk of spiritual studies?
Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix.
Of course they don't!
Atheists deal with the real world as demonstrated by physical facts.
We don't believe in mythical spirits for which there is NO objective
verifiable evidence.- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven
I am trying to explain to V whay spiritual would mean in a
materialistic filisophy
(the realm of the human mind)
almost nobody realizes this
I do notknow whether you saw Ho's post about numbers
(I think he posted it twice)
Numbers are also completely spirtual:)
Peter van Velzen
Atheist and materialist
April 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix. |
15 Apr 2007 06:46:24 AM |
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On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 07:38:54 -0700, V wrote:
Spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix.
DUH.
What part of "atheism" is giving you so much trouble? The letters?
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
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