| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"martus" |
| Date: |
25 Mar 2005 02:16:20 AM |
| Object: |
Terri's crucifixion |
Let us unite in horror and suffering on Good Friday with the family,
the real family, the parents, the brother and sister, of Terri
Schiavo, who are going through what the Blessed Mother went through:
watching a child, a dearly close relative, who they want only to care
for, killed before their eyes, watching public officials wash their
hands of it; the death by gruesome means of an innocent.
Oh, goodness, woe: many risk an actual placement in Hell in this case,
and we see the shameful face of the evil one as seldom before in this
dark hour, this darkest hour.
There was the divide over the abortion issue and the crystallization
of positions through that atrocity but this one is more visible, more
cutting, and more acute.
Now we even kill those who are forty years out of the womb!
One can all but see the evil spirit behind the glazed gaze of
"liberal" commentators and commentators of any ilk -- "experts" of any
kind -- as they casually hope for the finality of death. Should we
react hatefully, violently, or in any way wrongly? Of course not.
Please. Follow the example of the Schindlers. Be good. Be kind. But
how the devil tempts us.
Those who know the facts about Terri's awareness, and about the way
she has been treated these past 15 years, and still support death for
her -- still support her wayward "husband" -- are at the least under
the sway of the devil and perhaps evil themselves.
How do we know when evil is present? When wickedness masquerades as
compassion, when there is inaccuracy, when the facts are obscured,
when there is even the depriving her of the sacraments, when there is
evidence that she never said anything to her husband about whether she
would want to live like this, when a case is decided on incomplete,
wrong information, when there is illogical behavior, as with the judge
-- who has tossed out credible testimony that completely reverses the
case and would convince the public that Terri should live and might
even be rehabilitated.
We know there is evil when he won't even hear a live witness or allow
for further investigation!
An evil spirit is here.
This is the cutting edge of goodness and a truly disturbing number of
Americans, especially in the judiciary, media, legislative branch, and
medical fields -- are not on the side of God (Who is a God of life,
truth, and longsuffering).
The death of Terri Schiavo would portend a spiral into areas that we
don't yet imagine and will bring about disaster to large segments of
our "society," as well as those who have been major players.
This is not to hope for such, but simply to make an observation. And
it is also to urge prayer at 3 p.m. Good Friday (prayer and fasting).
With fasting, we can win. With fasting, we can surmount even this
tragedy, if we act quickly.
But there is much damage already. And woe, indeed! Woe forever. We
will not judge individuals, but we will speak in a general way, for it
is important to speak the truth, and the truth is that this goes far
beyond the law or anything of the physical realm; in its badness, this
is supernatural.
Deep shame is yours, those of you who have opted for the side of
death, for disposing of this woman, this woman who can speak enough to
utter words like "help me." You have no idea the darkness that awaits
us.
A commentator on TV who wants to see Terri dead and is upset by
remarks from those who support her says that we are a civil society
and that we must act with civility.
A "civil" society kills a woman who has cognizance?
What blindness! There may not be a precedent, at least not since Nazi
Europe.
No, if there is use of the word "civil" in this case, it is as in
"civil war."
No issue has so quickly concatenated division.
We try not to be dismal; we try to operate from the standpoint of
love. But we also know that there is a spiritual war and that it is
now breaking into the open. How can anyone think calmly of this
husband who denied his wife rehabilitation, who reportedly intimidated
nursing-home staff, who sealed medical information, who wants to so
quickly cremate her body (why so quickly, Michael?), who even delayed
her completely distraught parents from visiting her for five hours --
kept parents away from a dying child, a child they can not even give a
sip of water to?
This is beyond incredible, the hour of the power of darkness: let us
not gloss over that. The judiciary is alarming. The Supreme Court
lacks all compassion. There may be no heroes in government. This is
such a severe case that it is worth a governor or legislator or a
president getting arrested for (as an act of protest or better so that
Terri can be taken custody of). Government leaders needed to take her
out of that hospice through force, if necessary, through federal
agents, through state police, and then do legal battle later --
fighting with a local judge who had no right to rule as he has.
Where are the Christian members of the Supreme Court? Where is the
courage in Congress? Where are those who as Christians should even
give their lives (never mind careers) for another?
Instead, the easy way seems to be the course of this current time and
a part of the overwhelming darkness.
________________________________________________________________________________
Isaiah 59:15-19 (NRSV)
15 Truth is lacking,
and whoever turns from evil is despoiled.
The Lord saw it, and it displeased him
that there was no justice.
16 He saw that there was no one,
and was appalled that there was no one to intervene;
so his own arm brought him victory,
and his righteousness upheld him.
17 He put on righteousness like a breastplate,
and a helmet of salvation on his head;
he put on garments of vengeance for clothing,
and wrapped himself in fury as in a mantle.
18 According to their deeds, so will he repay;
wrath to his adversaries, requital to his enemies;
to the coastlands he will render requital.
19 So those in the west shall fear the name of the Lord,
and those in the east, his glory;
for he will come like a pent-up stream
that the wind of the Lord drives on.
End
times:
http://www.geocities.com/mart1963
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: "Clear and convincing evidence" (Terri) |
25 Mar 2005 03:45:31 PM |
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"By clear and convincing evidence, it was determined she did not want to live under
such burdensome conditions and that she would refuse such medical
treatment-assistance,"
Judge Greer
I wonder why he used the phrase "clear and convincing"?
Was, in REALITY, the evidence "clear and convincing"?
Are we all convinced that a PRACTICING CATHOLIC wished to go against the
teachings of her church as regards the manner of her death AND how her mortal
remains should be disposed of?
I repeat:
"CLEAR AND CONVINCING"
Such a phrase might, perhaps, be acceptable if Greer was referring to the impression
he had of the medical evidence of her physical condition - but most certainly it doesn't
apply to the evidence presented to the court as to what her wishes might have been.
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| User: "Bible Studies with Satan" |
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| Title: Re: "Clear and convincing evidence" (Terri) |
25 Mar 2005 05:58:10 PM |
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me wrote:
"By clear and convincing evidence, it was determined she did not want to live
under such burdensome conditions and that she would refuse such medical
treatment-assistance,"
Judge Greer
I wonder why he used the phrase "clear and convincing"?
Why not educate and read up on the many court cases? Why, indeed. Do you like
being an superstitious and ignorant sharecropper?
Was, in REALITY, the evidence "clear and convincing"?
Are we all convinced that a PRACTICING CATHOLIC wished to go against the
teachings of her church as regards the manner of her death AND how her mortal
remains should be disposed of?
I repeat:
"CLEAR AND CONVINCING"
Such a phrase might, perhaps, be acceptable if Greer was referring to the
impression he had of the medical evidence of her physical condition - but most
certainly it doesn't apply to the evidence presented to the court as to what
her wishes might have been.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Re: "Clear and convincing evidence" (Terri) |
25 Mar 2005 08:12:43 PM |
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Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
"By clear and convincing evidence, it was determined she did not want to live
under such burdensome conditions and that she would refuse such medical
treatment-assistance,"
Judge Greer
I wonder why he used the phrase "clear and convincing"?
Why not educate and read up on the many court cases? Why, indeed. Do you like
being an superstitious and ignorant sharecropper?
So what is the "clear and convincing evidence"?
The law states that, in the absence of a written advanced directive, there must be
"clear and convincing evidence". Do you regard her husband's and a couple of his
friend's/family's declaration that she once expressed an opinion on the matter "clear
and convincing"?
Outside his legal role Greer has stated his personal opinions on whether or not people
in Terri's condition should be kept alive.
A senior British doctor gave evidence to the British House of Lords in 1994 expressing
the opinion that:
"Once a person has lost the ability to enjoy life they should not be kept alive."
Physician-assisted suicide by severely depressed, but not physically ill, has happened
in the Netherlands.
The Dutch Minister of Health said in their parliament that:
"Elderly people, who are not physically ill, but who are tired of life, should be able to go
to their doctor and get suicide pills"
And Christian Barnard, the famous heart-transplant pioneer, said in 1990:
"Doctors should decide when a patient should die, without reference to the patient's
wishes, the wishes of the family, the opinion of other doctors, or any interference from
the law"
Where do you stand in all this?
Complicated, ennit?
Was, in REALITY, the evidence "clear and convincing"?
Are we all convinced that a PRACTICING CATHOLIC wished to go against the
teachings of her church as regards the manner of her death AND how her mortal
remains should be disposed of?
I repeat:
"CLEAR AND CONVINCING"
Such a phrase might, perhaps, be acceptable if Greer was referring to the
impression he had of the medical evidence of her physical condition - but most
certainly it doesn't apply to the evidence presented to the court as to what
her wishes might have been.
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| User: "Bible Studies with Satan" |
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| Title: Re: "Clear and convincing evidence" (Terri) |
25 Mar 2005 08:37:37 PM |
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me wrote:
Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
"By clear and convincing evidence, it was determined she did not want to
live under such burdensome conditions and that she would refuse such medical
treatment-assistance,"
Judge Greer
I wonder why he used the phrase "clear and convincing"?
Why not educate and read up on the many court cases? Why, indeed. Do you like
being an superstitious and ignorant sharecropper?
So what is the "clear and convincing evidence"?
The law states that, in the absence of a written advanced directive, there
must be "clear and convincing evidence". Do you regard her husband's and a
couple of his friend's/family's declaration that she once expressed an opinion
on the matter "clear and convincing"?
It wasn't a declaration. It was testimony in a court of law.
Outside his legal role Greer has stated his personal opinions on whether or
not people in Terri's condition should be kept alive.
A senior British doctor gave evidence to the British House of Lords in 1994
expressing the opinion that:
"Once a person has lost the ability to enjoy life they should not be kept
alive."
Physician-assisted suicide by severely depressed, but not physically ill, has
happened in the Netherlands.
The Dutch Minister of Health said in their parliament that:
"Elderly people, who are not physically ill, but who are tired of life, should
be able to go to their doctor and get suicide pills"
Suicide has a long cultural history in Japanese culture. What has been the
long-term effect?
And Christian Barnard, the famous heart-transplant pioneer, said in 1990:
"Doctors should decide when a patient should die, without reference to the
patient's wishes, the wishes of the family, the opinion of other doctors, or
any interference from the law"
Where do you stand in all this?
Complicated, ennit?
Very important to draw up a living will.
Was, in REALITY, the evidence "clear and convincing"?
Are we all convinced that a PRACTICING CATHOLIC wished to go against the
teachings of her church as regards the manner of her death AND how her
mortal remains should be disposed of?
I repeat:
"CLEAR AND CONVINCING"
Such a phrase might, perhaps, be acceptable if Greer was referring to the
impression he had of the medical evidence of her physical condition - but
most certainly it doesn't apply to the evidence presented to the court as to
what her wishes might have been.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Re: "Clear and convincing evidence" (Terri) |
25 Mar 2005 09:08:41 PM |
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Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
"By clear and convincing evidence, it was determined she did not want to
live under such burdensome conditions and that she would refuse such medical
treatment-assistance,"
Judge Greer
I wonder why he used the phrase "clear and convincing"?
Why not educate and read up on the many court cases? Why, indeed. Do you like
being an superstitious and ignorant sharecropper?
So what is the "clear and convincing evidence"?
The law states that, in the absence of a written advanced directive, there
must be "clear and convincing evidence". Do you regard her husband's and a
couple of his friend's/family's declaration that she once expressed an opinion
on the matter "clear and convincing"?
It wasn't a declaration. It was testimony in a court of law.
Outside his legal role Greer has stated his personal opinions on whether or
not people in Terri's condition should be kept alive.
A senior British doctor gave evidence to the British House of Lords in 1994
expressing the opinion that:
"Once a person has lost the ability to enjoy life they should not be kept
alive."
Physician-assisted suicide by severely depressed, but not physically ill, has
happened in the Netherlands.
The Dutch Minister of Health said in their parliament that:
"Elderly people, who are not physically ill, but who are tired of life, should
be able to go to their doctor and get suicide pills"
Suicide has a long cultural history in Japanese culture. What has been the
long-term effect?
In the mid-90s the suicide rate doubled in the space of 12 months in Japan when they
had an economic downturn.
Maybe those afflicted by a disabling sense of failure should have the right to be
prescribed suicide pills? I mean "failure" is often a lifelong burden for many people.
And Christian Barnard, the famous heart-transplant pioneer, said in 1990:
"Doctors should decide when a patient should die, without reference to the
patient's wishes, the wishes of the family, the opinion of other doctors, or
any interference from the law"
Where do you stand in all this?
Complicated, ennit?
Very important to draw up a living will.
Was, in REALITY, the evidence "clear and convincing"?
Are we all convinced that a PRACTICING CATHOLIC wished to go against the
teachings of her church as regards the manner of her death AND how her
mortal remains should be disposed of?
I repeat:
"CLEAR AND CONVINCING"
Such a phrase might, perhaps, be acceptable if Greer was referring to the
impression he had of the medical evidence of her physical condition - but
most certainly it doesn't apply to the evidence presented to the court as to
what her wishes might have been.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Bring in the psychologists! (Terri) |
25 Mar 2005 08:32:58 PM |
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George Felos, Judge Greer, and Michael Schiavo - all three of them - are making
statements that point to the fact that they are "afflicted" by a narcissistic desire for
power and influence which, if allowed to get out of hand, could well end up in their
activities conjuring up a "mass psychosis" in the American populace which could lead
them to demand that "doctors who kill" being given the leading role in the medical
world.
The is no such thing as a compassionate serial killer.
The Devil has awoken from his sleep. "Euthanasia! Ah! Yes! What a WONDERFUL
opportunity for me!"
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| User: "Bible Studies with Satan" |
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| Title: Re: Bring in the psychologists! (Terri) |
25 Mar 2005 08:40:46 PM |
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me wrote:
George Felos, Judge Greer, and Michael Schiavo - all three of them - are
making statements that point to the fact that they are "afflicted"
Oh yah? The fact? Where do you find your 'facts', on AM radio? Does your pastor
shout 'facts' from his pulpit?
by a
narcissistic desire for power and influence which, if allowed to get out of
hand, could well end up
Oh yah?
in their activities conjuring up a "mass psychosis" in
the American populace which could lead them to demand that "doctors who kill"
being given the leading role in the medical world.
The is no such thing as a compassionate serial killer.
The Devil has awoken from his sleep. "Euthanasia! Ah! Yes! What a WONDERFUL
opportunity for me!"
What exactly is the dogmatic stance to back up your cult of 'life'?
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Re: Bring in the psychologists! (Terri) |
25 Mar 2005 09:27:27 PM |
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Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
George Felos, Judge Greer, and Michael Schiavo - all three of them - are
making statements that point to the fact that they are "afflicted"
Oh yah? The fact? Where do you find your 'facts', on AM radio? Does your pastor
shout 'facts' from his pulpit?
by a
narcissistic desire for power and influence which, if allowed to get out of
hand, could well end up
Oh yah?
in their activities conjuring up a "mass psychosis" in
the American populace which could lead them to demand that "doctors who kill"
being given the leading role in the medical world.
The is no such thing as a compassionate serial killer.
The Devil has awoken from his sleep. "Euthanasia! Ah! Yes! What a WONDERFUL
opportunity for me!"
What exactly is the dogmatic stance to back up your cult of 'life'?
My focus is based on experience.
There is no such thing as a compassionate serial killer.
Under no circumstances should anyone in the medical profession ever participate in
the deliberate ending of a patient's life - even if all the evidence clearly indicates that
there is not a trace of humanity left in the patient.
A survey of British doctors that asked them if they had ever helped a patient die or
ended a patient's life produced a response from numerous doctors who had done so
ONCE. Their "inner" experiences were such that under no circumstances would they
ever do it again.
Some people can raise a gun and blow off a fellow human being's head - and laugh
about it.
Some doctors find it "amusing" to "engineer" the deaths of patients (for instance - by
giving them certain anti-biotics that should not be given to patients with CNS disorders)
There are lots of ways to kill people - and get away with it, if one knows the game.
The term 'The Process' is sometimes used in American hospitals when referring to
"doctor-induced" death.
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| User: "Bible Studies with Satan" |
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| Title: Re: Bring in the psychologists! (Terri) |
25 Mar 2005 09:43:52 PM |
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me wrote:
Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
George Felos, Judge Greer, and Michael Schiavo - all three of them - are
making statements that point to the fact that they are "afflicted"
Oh yah? The fact? Where do you find your 'facts', on AM radio? Does your
pastor shout 'facts' from his pulpit?
by a
narcissistic desire for power and influence which, if allowed to get out of
hand, could well end up
Oh yah?
in their activities conjuring up a "mass psychosis" in
the American populace which could lead them to demand that "doctors who
kill" being given the leading role in the medical world.
The is no such thing as a compassionate serial killer.
The Devil has awoken from his sleep. "Euthanasia! Ah! Yes! What a WONDERFUL
opportunity for me!"
What exactly is the dogmatic stance to back up your cult of 'life'?
My focus is based on experience.
There is no such thing as a compassionate serial killer.
Under no circumstances should anyone in the medical profession ever
participate in the deliberate ending of a patient's life - even if all the
evidence clearly indicates that there is not a trace of humanity left in the
patient.
A survey of British doctors that asked them if they had ever helped a patient
die or ended a patient's life produced a response from numerous doctors who
had done so ONCE. Their "inner" experiences were such that under no
circumstances would they ever do it again.
Some people can raise a gun and blow off a fellow human being's head - and
laugh about it.
Some doctors find it "amusing" to "engineer" the deaths of patients (for
instance - by giving them certain anti-biotics that should not be given to
patients with CNS disorders)
There are lots of ways to kill people - and get away with it, if one knows the
game.
The term 'The Process' is sometimes used in American hospitals when referring
to "doctor-induced" death.
Once again, evangelists cannot find dogma to back up their assertions that they
have a right to take dominion over other's life and death decisions.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Opinions about Terri |
25 Mar 2005 08:51:38 PM |
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I wonder why it is that 95% of the crude, abusive remarks are coming from people who
say Terri should die?
Felos did, more or less, liken Bush to Stalin - and called those senior politicians trying to
help Terri "thugs".
Maybe those driven by the increasing "euthanasia frenzy" yearn, in their hearts, for a
"great leader" who will rid the country of the "unfit", etc?
How many people actually declare in their Advanced Directives that if they end up in
Terri's state they want their "food and fluid" to be removed? They can't ask to simply
be given an injection - that would be illegal.
Why is it illegal?
Why is it legal to bring about death by subjecting the body to a regime which causes it
to deteriorate into a physical state that is "distressing" to the sensibilities of many
people?
Day after day the nursing staff enter the patient's room:
"Lips cracking"
"Skin flaking"
"Eyes sinking into their sockets"
"Patient moaning"
Notes the nurse on her report.
When considering a career would you chose medicine if it meant that you would
regularly have to witness the deterioration of a human physical body that could, if
provided with sustenance, be maintained in a "healthier" state?
What kind of people do we want managing our health?
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| User: "Bible Studies with Satan" |
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| Title: Re: Opinions about Terri |
25 Mar 2005 09:16:44 PM |
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me wrote:
I wonder why it is that 95% of the crude, abusive remarks are coming from
people who say Terri should die?
It is exactly the opposite. Wake up!
Meanwhile, FBI agents have arrested a North Carolina man on suspicion of
soliciting offers over the internet to kill Michael Schiavo and Greer. Richard
Alan Meywes of Fairview is accused of offering $250,000 for the killing of
Schiavo and another $50,000 for the "the elimination of the judge who ruled
against Terry."
Meywes was arrested without incident at his home around 5 p.m. Friday on charges
of solicitation of murder and transmission of a threatening communication via
interstate commerce, authorities said.
If convicted, Meywes could face up to 15 years in prison and up to $500,000 in
fines. He is expected to make an initial court appearance Monday in U.S.
District Court in Asheville, North Carolina.
Greer has been under 24-hour protection by two U.S. marshals due to increased
threats against his life by those unhappy with his handling of the Schiavo
case.
On Thursday, police arrested an Illinois man they said robbed a gun store in
Seminole, Florida, as part of an attempt to "rescue Terri Schiavo."
Michael W. Mitchell, 20, faces charges of attempted armed robbery, aggravated
assault and criminal mischief, said Marianne Pasha, spokeswoman for the
Pinellas County Sheriff's
Office.http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/25/schiavo/index.html
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Re: Opinions about Terri |
25 Mar 2005 09:50:38 PM |
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Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
I wonder why it is that 95% of the crude, abusive remarks are coming from
people who say Terri should die?
It is exactly the opposite. Wake up!
Meanwhile, FBI agents have arrested a North Carolina man on suspicion of
soliciting offers over the internet to kill Michael Schiavo and Greer. Richard
Alan Meywes of Fairview is accused of offering $250,000 for the killing of
Schiavo and another $50,000 for the "the elimination of the judge who ruled
against Terry."
Meywes was arrested without incident at his home around 5 p.m. Friday on charges
of solicitation of murder and transmission of a threatening communication via
interstate commerce, authorities said.
If convicted, Meywes could face up to 15 years in prison and up to $500,000 in
fines. He is expected to make an initial court appearance Monday in U.S.
District Court in Asheville, North Carolina.
Greer has been under 24-hour protection by two U.S. marshals due to increased
threats against his life by those unhappy with his handling of the Schiavo
case.
On Thursday, police arrested an Illinois man they said robbed a gun store in
Seminole, Florida, as part of an attempt to "rescue Terri Schiavo."
Michael W. Mitchell, 20, faces charges of attempted armed robbery, aggravated
assault and criminal mischief, said Marianne Pasha, spokeswoman for the
Pinellas County Sheriff's
Office.http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/25/schiavo/index.html
I bet you $50 that either Felos or Greer (or both of them) will be dead by Christmas.
Felos has an excuse - he's more than a little crazy. Greer is the most culpable in all this.
I've no doubt that there's a fair number of people dotted around America who are busy
cleaning their weapons.
The 'Quality of Life' doctor who brought about my severely brain-disabled wife's death
in 1994 in the UK was later sacked after being found "unfit to practice medicine" by
the Royal College of Physicians.
"I have a duty to my patients' souls," he said. "If they deteriorate too much their souls
have difficulty passing over".
He was an Evangelical Christian - my wife was a Catholic.
Terri is a Catholic, Jeb Bush is a Catholic.
The answer lies in "religious sensibilities"
I am an atheist - my wife no longer exists.
Its me that's got the problems, the memories, the gnawing sense of "guilt" that I didn't
violently attack the doctor when he made it plain what he was about.
When the question of ending patients' lives comes up the personalities involved can
demonstrate an alarmingly "pathological" desire to kill that which they disapprove of -
to the extent that they fail to "see" what is obvious to more compassionate people.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Explain this !!! (Terri) |
26 Mar 2005 07:53:04 AM |
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Either this lady has an extraordinary ability to fictionalise in detail the relationship
between Terri and her family - or she is telling the truth.
If she is telling the truth then America is in BIG TROUBLE!
A Visit With Terri Schiavo
Attorney Barbara Weller
This past Christmas Eve day, 2004, I went to visit Terri Schiavo with her parents, Bob
and Mary Schindler, her sister, her niece, and Attorney David Gibbs III. The visit took
place at the Woodside Hospice for about 45 minutes just before noon.
When I knew I was going to visit Terri with her parents, I had no idea what to expect. I
was prepared for the possibility that the Schindlers love their daughter and sister so
much that they might imagine behaviors by Terri that aren't actually evident to others.
The media and Mr. Schiavo clearly give the impression that Terri is in a coma or
comatose state and engages only in non-purposeful and reflexive movements and
responses. I am a mother and a grandmother, as well as one of the Schindlers'
attorneys, and I could understand how parents might imagine behavior and purposeful
activity that is not really there. I was prepared to be as objective as I could be during
this visit and not to be disappointed at anything I saw or experienced.
I was truly surprised at what I saw from the moment we entered the little room where
Terri is confined. The room is a little wider than the width of two single beds and about
as long as the average bedroom, with plenty of room for us to stand at the foot of her
bed. Terri is on the first floor and there is a lovely view to the outside grounds of the
facility. The room is entered by a short hallway, however, and there is no way for Terri
to see out into the hallway or for anyone in the hallway to observe Terri.
From the moment we entered the room, my impression was that Terri was very
purposeful and interactive and she seemed very curious about the presence of obvious
strangers in her room. Terri was not in bed, but was in her chair, which has a lounge
chair appearance and elevates her head at about a 30-degree angle. She was dressed
and washed, her hair combed, and she was covered with a holiday blanket. There
were no tubes of any kind attached to her body. She was completely free of any
restraints that would have indicated any type of artificial life support. Not even her
feeding tube was attached and functioning when we entered, as she is not fed 24
hours a day.
The thing that surprised me the most about Terri as I took my turn to greet her by the
side of her chair was how beautiful she is. I would have expected to see someone with
a sallow and gray complexion and a sick looking countenance. Instead, I saw a very
pretty woman with a peaches and cream complexion and a lovely smile, which she
even politely extended to me as I introduced myself to her. I was amazed that someone
who had not been outside for so many years and who received such minimal health
care could look so beautiful. She appeared to have an inner light radiating from her
face. I was truly taken aback by her beauty, particularly under the adverse
circumstances in which she has found herself for so many years.
Terri's parents, sister, and niece went immediately to greet Terri when we entered the
room and stood in turn directly beside her head, stroking her face, kissing her and
talking quietly with her. When she heard their voices, and particularly her mother's
voice, Terri instantly turned her head towards them and smiled. Terri established eye
contact with her family, particularly with her mother, who spent the most time with her
during our visit. It was obvious that she recognized the voices in the room with the
exception of one. Although her mother was talking to her at the time, she obviously had
heard a new voice and exhibited a curious demeanor. Attorney Gibbs was having a
conversation near the door with Terri's sister. His voice is very deep and resonant and
Terri obviously picked it up. Her eyes widened as if to say, "What's that new sound I
hear?" She scanned the room with her eyes, even turning her head in his direction,
until she found Attorney Gibbs and the location of the new voice and her eyes rested
momentarily in his direction. She then returned to interacting with her mother.
When her mother was close to her, Terri's whole face lit up. She smiled. She looked
directly at her mother and she made all sorts of happy sounds. When her mother talked
to her, Terri was quiet and obviously listening. When she stopped, Terri started
vocalizing. The vocalizations seemed to be a pattern, not merely random or reflexive at
all. There is definitely a pattern of Terri having a conversation with her mother as best
she can manage. Initially, she used the vocalization of "uh'uh" but without seeming to
mean it as a way of saying "no", just as a repeated speech pattern. She then began to
make purposeful grunts in response to her mother's conversation. She made the same
sorts of sound with her father and sister, but not to the same extent or as delightedly as
with her mother. She made no verbal response to her niece or to Attorney Gibbs and
myself, but she did appear to pay attention to our words to her.
The whole experience was rather moving. Terri definitely has a personality. Her whole
demeanor definitely changes when her mother speaks with her. She lights up and
appears to be delighted at the interaction. She has an entirely different reaction to her
father who jokes with her and has several standing jokes that he uses when he enters
and exits her presence. She appears to merely "tolerate" her father, as a child does
when she says "stop" but really means, "this is fun." When her father greets her, he
always does the same thing. He says, "here comes the hug" and hugs her. He then
says, "you know what's coming next---the kiss." Her father has a scratchy mustache
and both times when he went through this little joke routine with her, she laughed in a
way she did not do with anyone else. When her father is ready to plant the kiss on her
cheek, she immediately makes a face her family calls the "lemon face." She puckers
her lips, screws up her whole face, and turns away from him, as if making ready for the
scratchy assault on her cheek that she knows is coming. She did the exact same thing
both times that her father initiated this little routine joke between the two of them.
The interactions with her family and our appearance in her room appeared to require
some effort and exertion from Terri. From time to time, she would close her eyes as if to
rest. This happened primarily when no one was paying particular attention to her, but
we were talking among ourselves. After a few minutes or when one of the visitors
approached her and started to talk directly to her again, Terri would open her eyes and
begin her grunting sounds again in response to their conversations. Although I
approached her, leaned close and stroked her arms and spoke to her, she did not
verbally respond to me.
Terri's hands are curled up around little soft cylinders that help her not to injure herself. I
understand that these contractures are likely very painful, although there was a time
when Terri was receiving simple motion therapy when her hands and arms relaxed and
were no longer as constricted. When the therapy was discontinued by order of her
guardian and the court, the contractures returned. These contractures would
apparently be avoidable if Terri were given the simple range of motion therapy she
previously received. It is very sad to observe firsthand these conditions that make her
life more difficult, but that would be correctable with little effort.
When we were preparing to leave, the interactions with Terri changed. First, she went
through the joke routine with her father and the "lemon face." When her niece said
goodbye to her, Terri did not react. Nor did she react to me or to Attorney Gibbs when
we said our goodbyes to her. When her sister went to her to say goodbye, Terri's
verbalizations changed dramatically. Instead of the happy grunting and "uh uh" sounds
she had been making throughout the visit, her verbalizations at these goodbyes
changed to a very low and different sound that appeared to come from deep in her
throat and was almost like a growl. She first made the sound when her sister said
goodbye and then, amazingly to me, she made exactly the same sound when her
mother said goodbye to her. It seemed Terri was visibly upset that they were leaving.
She almost appeared to be trying to cling to them, although this impression came only
from her changed facial expression and sounds, since her hands cannot move. It
appeared like she did not want to be alone and knew they were leaving. It was
definitely apparent in the short time I was there that her emotions changed-it was
apparent when she was happy and enjoying herself, when she was amused, when she
was resting from her exertion to communicate, and when she was sad at her guests
leaving. It was readily apparent and surprising that her mood changed so often in a
short 45-minute visit.
I was pleasantly surprised to observe Terri's purposeful and varied behaviors with the
various members of her family and with Attorney Gibbs and myself. I never imagined
Terri would be so active, curious, and purposeful. She watched people intently,
obviously was attempting to communicate with each one in various ways and with
various facial expressions and sounds. She was definitely not in a coma, not even
close. This visit certainly shed more light for me on why the Schindlers are fighting so
hard to protect her, to get her medical care and rehabilitative assistance, and to spend
all they have to protect her life.
I realize that Terri has good days and bad days. There are obviously days when she
does not interact with her family, as they had previously told us. There are also
apparently days when Terri is even more interactive and responsive to them than she
was on the day I visited. Since this visit I am more convinced than ever that the
Schindlers are not just parents who refuse to let go of their daughter. There really is a
lot going on with their daughter and potentially, it seemed obvious to me, Terri could
improve even more with appropriate care and 24 hour a day love that can only come
from a dedicated family. As I watched her, my foremost thought was that on the next
day, Christmas, Terri should not have been confined to her small room in a hospice
center, nice as that room was, but that she should have been gathered around the
Christmas dinner table enjoying the holiday with her family.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Explain this !!! (Terri) |
26 Mar 2005 09:47:21 AM |
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On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:53:04 +0000, after pondering
deep thoughts, "me" <here@now.com> spake thusly:
Either this lady has an extraordinary ability to fictionalise in detail the relationship
between Terri and her family - or she is telling the truth.
If she is telling the truth then America is in BIG TROUBLE!
Has it ever occurred to you, that if someone saw Terri
cry and heard her scream, as another message said, when
she was told her feeding tube was coming out, that no
judge in the world would have pulled that feeding tube?
Dude, get a grip. This is fiction.
The thing that surprised me the most about Terri as I took my turn to greet her by the
side of her chair was how beautiful she is. I would have expected to see someone with
a sallow and gray complexion and a sick looking countenance. Instead, I saw a very
pretty woman with a peaches and cream complexion and a lovely smile, which she
even politely extended to me as I introduced myself to her. I was amazed that someone
who had not been outside for so many years and who received such minimal health
care could look so beautiful. She appeared to have an inner light radiating from her
face. I was truly taken aback by her beauty, particularly under the adverse
circumstances in which she has found herself for so many years.
Dude, have you seen camera shots of Terri on TV? She
does not have, "a lovely smile". Her mouth is hanging
open.
<snip>
And don't you think Terri's lawyer would have had these
people in court? Think about it.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
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| User: "Bible Studies with Satan" |
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| Title: Re: Explain this !!! (Terri) |
26 Mar 2005 10:32:52 AM |
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me wrote:
Either this lady has an extraordinary ability to fictionalise in detail the
relationship between Terri and her family - or she is telling the truth.
If she is telling the truth then America is in BIG TROUBLE!
If she tells this story in a court of law, she's in big trouble for perjury.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: The Schindlers and their supporters |
26 Mar 2005 12:00:19 PM |
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... are examples of the amazing capacity of human beings to love someone who is
being rejected by 4 out of 5 Americans.
Terri Schiavo IS as her family and friends say ... a conscious, communicating
human-being.
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| User: "Bible Studies with Satan" |
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| Title: Re: The Schindlers and their supporters |
26 Mar 2005 12:32:13 PM |
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me wrote:
.. are examples of the amazing capacity of human beings to love someone who is
being rejected by 4 out of 5 Americans.
Terri Schiavo IS as her family and friends say ... a conscious, communicating
human-being.
Their supporters are dominionists who are crusading to replace the US
Consitiution with biblical law. They are the American Taliban and want their
mullahs to exclusively make the life and death decisions for us.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Re: The Schindlers and their supporters |
26 Mar 2005 04:46:07 PM |
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Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
.. are examples of the amazing capacity of human beings to love someone who is
being rejected by 4 out of 5 Americans.
Terri Schiavo IS as her family and friends say ... a conscious, communicating
human-being.
Their supporters are dominionists who are crusading to replace the US
Consitiution with biblical law. They are the American Taliban and want their
mullahs to exclusively make the life and death decisions for us.
So they are a "group of people" with a carefully worked out agenda which involves
telling fantastically complicated lies? Weller just "makes it up" - its not as she says it is?
Here's something from Weller:
'If they so firmly hold onto those ideals they should go drown themselves to save
themselves pain and misery and the world would be rid of these vile murders'
Good enough for me - everybody who wants Terri dead because they fear what it
would be like to be her should go jump off the nearest cliff!
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Corinne |
26 Mar 2005 05:11:19 PM |
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Corinne was in a wheelchair. Her hands shook. She could not feed herself. Her speech
was "all over the place".
The people in the cafe were "discomfitted" by her.
"What's wrong with her?" a woman asked, giving my wife a "not friendly" look.
"Tell the lady, Corinne"
Corinne fixed the woman with a gaze, and said:
"I've got rabies"
...........................
A woman passing by gave her a "nasty" look.
"Toulouse Le Trec doesn't like me," said Corinne
..........................
"Don't bother about diet. Don't bother about physiotherapy," said a neurologist.
"She shakes too much"
..........................
WHY DO PEOPLE "FEEL" SO NEGATIVE TOWARDS DISABLED PEOPLE?
..........................
They wanted my wife dead because they didn't want to be like her.
What the Schindlers are about can be summed up in one single word
LOVE
Can you love someone who is disabled and totally dependent?
Can you look into
their eyes without your mind filling up with propaganda that wants them dead?
The Terri Schiavo saga is all about
PREJUDICE!
A quote from a late nineteenth century newspaper during a media-driven"euthanasia
frenzy"
'I saw a crab euthanasing a sickly fish - doubtless from the highest of motives.'
Corinne comment on this was:
"The crabs get bored walking up and down the beach all day - so they go and talk to
the fish"
Maybe it'll come to the point where the government will employ "Quality of Life" experts
(like Felos) to sort things out?
If, after reading this, you feel like posting a "***** you" sort of response - be careful
when next you are driving - your mind could wander, just for a second, and you could
end up a vegetable.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Re: Explain this !!! (Terri) |
26 Mar 2005 11:53:51 AM |
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Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
Either this lady has an extraordinary ability to fictionalise in detail the
relationship between Terri and her family - or she is telling the truth.
If she is telling the truth then America is in BIG TROUBLE!
If she tells this story in a court of law, she's in big trouble for perjury.
I seem to remember that there was a film some years ago about a woman in an
institution in Australia who was "diagnosed" as having next-to-no intelligence. One of
the staff of the institution, against massive opposition, succeeded in creating a scenario
which led to legal minds agreeing that the woman was of "high intelligence". After
getting out of the institution she went to university and got a degree.
I watched the Terri videos available on the Terrisfight site - I see a conscious
communicating human being.
It is amazing how deep prejudice can go.
The doctors who say she is conscious and aware are spot on.
Terri is being murdered.
If the Schindlers and the woman who wrote this description (and others) are lying then if
Terri were to be kept alive and given a comprehensive examination by world-authorities
their lies would become apparent.
You say:
If she tells this story in a court of law, she's in big trouble for perjury.
Why do you believe she is not telling the truth?
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| User: "Bible Studies with Satan" |
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| Title: Re: Explain this !!! (Terri) |
26 Mar 2005 12:30:22 PM |
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me wrote:
Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
Either this lady has an extraordinary ability to fictionalise in detail the
relationship between Terri and her family - or she is telling the truth.
If she is telling the truth then America is in BIG TROUBLE!
If she tells this story in a court of law, she's in big trouble for perjury.
I seem to remember that there was a film some years ago about a woman in an
institution in Australia who was "diagnosed" as having next-to-no
intelligence. One of the staff of the institution, against massive opposition,
succeeded in creating a scenario which led to legal minds agreeing that the
woman was of "high intelligence". After getting out of the institution she
went to university and got a degree.
I watched the Terri videos available on the Terrisfight site - I see a
conscious communicating human being.
It is amazing how deep prejudice can go.
The doctors who say she is conscious and aware are spot on.
Terri is being murdered.
If the Schindlers and the woman who wrote this description (and others) are
lying then if Terri were to be kept alive and given a comprehensive
examination by world-authorities their lies would become apparent.
You say:
If she tells this story in a court of law, she's in big trouble for perjury.
Why do you believe she is not telling the truth?
Because Terri does not have a cerebral cortex.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Re: Explain this !!! (Terri) |
26 Mar 2005 04:37:11 PM |
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Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
Either this lady has an extraordinary ability to fictionalise in detail the
relationship between Terri and her family - or she is telling the truth.
If she is telling the truth then America is in BIG TROUBLE!
If she tells this story in a court of law, she's in big trouble for perjury.
I seem to remember that there was a film some years ago about a woman in an
institution in Australia who was "diagnosed" as having next-to-no
intelligence. One of the staff of the institution, against massive opposition,
succeeded in creating a scenario which led to legal minds agreeing that the
woman was of "high intelligence". After getting out of the institution she
went to university and got a degree.
I watched the Terri videos available on the Terrisfight site - I see a
conscious communicating human being.
It is amazing how deep prejudice can go.
The doctors who say she is conscious and aware are spot on.
Terri is being murdered.
If the Schindlers and the woman who wrote this description (and others) are
lying then if Terri were to be kept alive and given a comprehensive
examination by world-authorities their lies would become apparent.
You say:
If she tells this story in a court of law, she's in big trouble for perjury.
Why do you believe she is not telling the truth?
Because Terri does not have a cerebral cortex.
Neurologists who have studied her brain scans are saying things like:
'She has a similar scan to that of a senile, but functioning 75-85 year old'
25% of her Cerebral cortex has been destroyed - not 90% as is often said. Her skull is
not "full of fluid"
All this stuff reminds me of the Millennium disinformation saga.
Nov 98 - 73% of Americans believed the millennium was 1st Jan 2001. By April 99 it
was down to less than 50% - and kept dropping
The neurologist who tested Terri punched her on the forehead - but when she let out a
sound of protest said it was NOT a pain response. Terri does not react to people she
doesn't know - who she senses are not friendly.
The SCHINDLERS AND THEIR FRIENDS MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR!
Are the Schindlers lying, are their lawyers lying - when they describe Terri's ability to
communicate and understand language?
As for my late wife.
"Corinne, do something to show the nurse you are conscious and listening to what we
are saying"
Corinne moves one finger - after having been completely immobile and unresponsive for
several hours.
"She not REALLY conscious" said her consultant.
Some neurologists, "experts" in their field are VERY UNPLEASANT PEOPLE!
That's the way it is.
Felos (the lawyer who started all this) is a EUTHANAZI - he claims he can telepathically
commune with PVS people and they ask him to help them die - how about that?
If it wasn't all so sad it would make an hilarious Monty Python sketch!
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| User: "Bible Studies with Satan" |
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| Title: Re: Explain this !!! (Terri) |
26 Mar 2005 04:46:23 PM |
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me wrote:
Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
Bible Studies with Satan <church@state.org> wrote:
me wrote:
Either this lady has an extraordinary ability to fictionalise in detail
the relationship between Terri and her family - or she is telling the
truth.
If she is telling the truth then America is in BIG TROUBLE!
If she tells this story in a court of law, she's in big trouble for perjury.
I seem to remember that there was a film some years ago about a woman in an
institution in Australia who was "diagnosed" as having next-to-no
intelligence. One of the staff of the institution, against massive
opposition, succeeded in creating a scenario which led to legal minds
agreeing that the woman was of "high intelligence". After getting out of the
institution she went to university and got a degree.
I watched the Terri videos available on the Terrisfight site - I see a
conscious communicating human being.
It is amazing how deep prejudice can go.
The doctors who say she is conscious and aware are spot on.
Terri is being murdered.
If the Schindlers and the woman who wrote this description (and others) are
lying then if Terri were to be kept alive and given a comprehensive
examination by world-authorities their lies would become apparent.
You say:
If she tells this story in a court of law, she's in big trouble for perjury.
Why do you believe she is not telling the truth?
Because Terri does not have a cerebral cortex.
Neurologists who have studied her brain scans are saying things like:
'She has a similar scan to that of a senile, but functioning 75-85 year old'
Where's the html link?
25% of her Cerebral cortex has been destroyed - not 90% as is often said.
Often said? Like in a court of law?
Her
skull is not "full of fluid"
All this stuff reminds me of the Millennium disinformation saga.
Nov 98 - 73% of Americans believed the millennium was 1st Jan 2001. By April
99 it was down to less than 50% - and kept dropping
The neurologist who tested Terri punched her on the forehead - but when she
let out a sound of protest said it was NOT a pain response. Terri does not
react to people she doesn't know - who she senses are not friendly.
The SCHINDLERS AND THEIR FRIENDS MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR!
Are the Schindlers lying, are their lawyers lying - when they describe Terri's
ability to communicate and understand language?
As for my late wife.
"Corinne, do something to show the nurse you are conscious and listening to
what we are saying"
Corinne moves one finger - after having been completely immobile and
unresponsive for several hours.
"She not REALLY conscious" said her consultant.
Some neurologists, "experts" in their field are VERY UNPLEASANT PEOPLE!
That's the way it is.
Felos (the lawyer who started all this) is a EUTHANAZI - he claims he can
telepathically commune with PVS people and they ask him to help them die - how
about that?
If it wasn't all so sad it would make an hilarious Monty Python sketch!
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Terri Schiavo - Have you managed to stay sane? |
27 Mar 2005 10:25:49 PM |
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Have you managed to keep your head above water?
Is your thinking on this matter "sane"?
Do you know what is really happening?
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| User: "Bible Studies with Satan" |
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| Title: Re: Terri Schiavo - Have you managed to stay sane? |
27 Mar 2005 09:48:28 PM |
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me wrote:
Have you managed to keep your head above water?
Is your thinking on this matter "sane"?
Do you know what is really happening?
You shouldn't make fun of her.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Michael Martin (Terri) |
26 Mar 2005 11:57:40 PM |
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MI Supreme Court rescues Michael Martin
The Michigan Supreme Court ruled on 8/22/95 that Mary Martin, wife and legal
guardian of severely disabled Michael Martin, could not be permitted to cause
Michael's death by having "life-sustaining treatment," namely his food and fluids,
withheld. In a 6-1 decision, the Court found that the testimony and affidavit of Mary
Martin, claiming that Michael had said several times prior to his injury that he would
never want to live "like a vegetable," does not constitute clear and convincing
evidence that he would not want to continue living in his present condition.
According to lower court testimony, Michael -- who had suffered a closed head injury in
a 1987 car/train accident -- is not in a persistent vegetative state nor terminally ill, can
carry out some voluntary motor commands, can recognize faces, and can
communicate with other people through head nods. There was also testimony from
various health care providers that Michael seems happy with his environment and that
he has responded with a "no" head shake when asked if there were ever times when
he did not want to go on living.
Yet, in spite of these facts, both a MI probate court and the MI Court of Appeals ruled
that nutrition and hydration could be withheld from Michael. One judge held that
Michael's response indicating that he wanted to go on living was irrelevant given his
impaired condition. Michael's mother, Leeta Martin, and his sister, Patricia Major, in an
attempt to save Michael's life, appealed the case to the state Supreme Court. (For more
background information, see Update, July-August 1994)
Regarding Mary's contention that Michael's pre-accident statements prove that he
would not want to continue living in his present state, the MI Supreme Court cited
conflicting testimony from two of Michael's co-workers indicating that, before the
accident, Michael expressed the wish not to be kept alive if he was ever in a coma or
in a vegetative state. "[O]ur review of the record," the justices wrote, "reveals that
virtually all the witnesses agreed that Mr. Martin is not in a vegetative state and is not
suffering from the type of incapacitation referenced in his expression of a desire not to
continue life-sustaining treatment." [Mary Martin v. Leeta M. Martin and Patricia major,
No. 99699, 99700, MI S. Ct., Slip Op., p. 24]
The Court concluded, "Accordingly, we reverse the Court of Appeals determination
because [Mary Martin’s] testimony and affidavit do not constitute clear and convincing
evidence of Mr. Martin’s preinjury decision to decline life-sustaining medical treatment in
the form of a gastrostomy tube that provides hydration and nutritive support."
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: The Medical Profession |
26 Mar 2005 08:53:36 PM |
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The medical profession is overun with just about the weirdest collection of people
imaginable. No other profession even comes close.
Anyone who thinks that their local hospital is staffed by 100% normal people doesn't
know the score.
There is a fairly common personality type that enjoys causing pain, enjoys being with
people in pain. Such people are often found in the medical profession. Their need to
cause pain and distress to others is satisfied by the work they do.
Surgeons, for instance. Many of them are psychopaths.
Many people consciously train to be surgeons to satisfy their psychopathic impulses in
a way that is of benefit to society and gives them status.
When in the UK they started compiling detailed records they found that in some
hospitals the death rate amongst the elderly who had minor surgery was up to EIGHT
times that found in other hospitals. On investigation they found that the surgeons in the
hospitals with high death rates tended to drink heavily. It was proposed that when
surgeons reported for duty they should be breathalised - they often hadn't recovered
from the previous evenings drinking.
Ciproxin, a wide-spectrum antibiotic, which should never be given to people with CNS
disorders, was being widely used in the late 80s, early 90s to clear beds of the
chronically sick elderly.
"Teams" of really bizarre people appeared in our hospitals.
As the Medical Ombudsman for Wales said in July 1994:
"There are teams of medical personel who should be utterly ashamed of the way they
treat fellow human beings"
Then they began to "popularize" the concept of Euthanasia.
They simply wanted the right to decide when patients should die, as per Dr Christian
Barnard's 1990 statement at a Euthanasia conference in the Netherlands in 1990:
'Doctors shoudl decide when a patient should die, without reference to the patient's
wishes, the wishes of the family, the opinion of other doctors, or any interference from
the law'
The problem was that our then Conservative government was hand-in-glove with the
medical profession and supported its aims - especially the Minister of Health Virginia
Bottomley.
The idea was to create a situation where the populace would accept that part of a
doctor's job involved killing their patients when they thought it necessary.
When Labour got in they changed everything, are still changing things.
One problem is that none-medically trained people were put in charge of hospitals
under the Conservative TRUST system - they did not understand the systems that had
been built up over a hundred years or so to keep down cross-infection - so working
practices were completely altered - resulting in the rise of hospital acquired infection.
Hospitals rapidly became sources of disease pollution for the local populace.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: This should make you think (Terri) |
26 Mar 2005 05:43:18 PM |
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http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/johansen200503160848.asp
BAD MEDICINE
And, quite apart from the question of Terri’s therapy and care, it is entirely likely that
Terri has never been properly diagnosed. Terri is usually described as being in a
Persistent Vegetative State (PVS), and indeed Judge Greer ruled as a finding of fact
that she is PVS; but this diagnosis and finding were arrived at in a way that has many
neurologists expressing surprise and dismay.
I have spent the past ten days recruiting and interviewing neurologists who are willing
to come forward and offer affidavits or declarations concerning new testing and
examinations for Terri. In addition to the 15 neurologists’ affidavits Gibbs had in time to
present in court, I have commitments from over 30 others who are willing to testify that
Terri should have new and additional testing, and new examinations by unbiased
neurologists. Almost 50 neurologists all say the same thing: Terri should be reevaluated,
Terri should be reexamined, and there are grave doubts as to the accuracy of Terri’s
diagnosis of PVS. All of these neurologists are board-certified; a number of them are
fellows of the prestigious American Academy of Neurology; several are professors of
neurology at major medical schools.
So how can Judge Greer ignore the opinions of so many qualified neurologists, some of
whom are leaders in the field? The answer is that Michael Schiavo, his attorney George
Felos, and Judge Greer already have the diagnosis they want.
Terri’s diagnosis was arrived at without the benefit of testing that most neurologists
would consider standard for diagnosing PVS. One such test is MRI (Magnetic
Resonance Imaging). MRI is widely used today, even for ailments as simple as knee
injuries — but Terri has never had one. Michael has repeatedly refused to consent to
one. The neurologists I have spoken to have reacted with shock upon learning this
fact. One such neurologist is Dr. Peter Morin. He is a researcher specializing in
degenerative brain diseases, and has both an M.D. and a Ph.D. in biochemistry from
Boston University.
In the course of my conversation with Dr. Morin, he made reference to the standard
use of MRI and PET (Positron Emission Tomography) scans to diagnose the extent of
brain injuries. He seemed to assume that these had been done for Terri. I stopped him
and told him that these tests have never been done for her; that Michael had refused
them.
There was a moment of dead silence.
“That’s criminal,” he said, and then asked, in a tone of utter incredulity: “How can he
continue as guardian? People are deliberating over this woman’s life and death and
there’s been no MRI or PET?” He drew a reasonable conclusion: “These people
[Michael Schiavo, George Felos, and Judge Greer] don’t want the information.”
Dr. Morin explained that he would feel obligated to obtain the information in these tests
before making a diagnosis with life and death consequences. I told him that CT
(Computer-Aided Tomography) scans had been done, and were partly the basis for the
finding of PVS. The doctor retorted, “Spare no expense, eh?” I asked him to explain the
comment; he said that a CT scan is a much less expensive test than an MRI, but it
“only gives you a tenth of the information an MRI does.” He added, “A CT scan is useful
only in pretty severe cases, such as trauma, and also during the few days after an
anoxic (lack of oxygen) brain injury. It’s useful in an emergency-room setting. But if the
question is ischemic injury [brain damage caused by lack of blood/oxygen to part of the
brain] you want an MRI and PET. For subsequent evaluation of brain injury, the CT is
pretty useless unless there has been a massive stroke.”
Other neurologists have concurred with Dr. Morin’s opinion. Dr. Thomas Zabiega, who
trained at the University of Chicago, said, “Any neurologist who is objective would say
‘Yes’” to the question, “Should Terri be given an MRI?”
But in spite of the lack of advanced testing, such as an MRI, attorney George Felos
has claimed that Terri’s cerebral cortex has “liquefied,” and doctors for Michael Schiavo
have claimed, on the basis of the CT scans, that parts of Terri’s cerebral cortex “have
been replaced by fluid.” The problem with such contentions is that the available
evidence can’t support them. Dr. Zabiega explained that “a CT scan can’t resolve the
kind of detail needed” to make such a pronouncement: “A CT scan is like a blurry
photograph.” Dr. William Bell, a professor of neurology at Wake Forest University
Medical School, agrees: “A CT scan doesn’t give much detail. In order to see it on a
CT, you have to have massive damage.” Is it possible that Terri has that sort of
“massive” brain damage? According to Dr. Bell, that isn’t likely. Sometimes, he said,
even patients who are PVS have a “normal or near normal” MRI.
So why hasn’t an MRI been done for Terri? That question has never been satisfactorily
answered. George Felos has argued that an MRI can’t be done because of thalamic
implants that were placed in Terri’s skull during the last attempt at therapy, dating back
to 1992. But Felos’s contention ignores the fact that these implants could be removed.
Indeed, the doctor who put them in instructed Michael to have them removed. Michael
has never done so.
The most obvious possible explanation for what would otherwise be inexplicable
behavior is that Michael Schiavo, George Felos, and Judge Greer don’t want to admit
any information that would upset the diagnosis they already have. Dr. Morin, when told
that Michael had refused an MRI, and that Judge Greer had confirmed the decision,
said: “He refused a non-invasive test? People trying to do the right thing want the best
and most complete information available. We don't have that in Terri’s case.” Dr. Bell
agreed with this assessment, saying, “It seems as though they’re fearful of any
additional information.”
THE CRANFORD DIAGNOSIS
Doctors for Michael Schiavo have said that an MRI and PET are not necessary for
Terri because PVS is primarily a “clinical” diagnosis, that is, one arrived at on the basis
of examination of the patient, rather than by relying on tests. And the neurologists I
have spoken to agree on the clinical nature of the diagnosis, while insisting that
advanced tests nonetheless are a necessary part of it. But the star medical witness for
Michael Schiavo, Dr. Ronald Cranford of the University of Minnesota, has repeatedly
dismissed calls for MRI testing, and his opinion has prevailed.
Dr. Cranford was the principal medical witness brought in by Schiavo and Felos to
support their position that Terri was PVS. Judge Greer was obviously impressed by
Cranford’s résumé: Cranford travels throughout the country testifying in cases involving
PVS and brain impairment. He is widely recognized by courts as an expert in these
issues, and in some circles is considered “the” expert on PVS. His clinical judgment has
carried the day in many cases, so it is relevant to examine the manner in which he
arrived at his judgment in Terri’s case. But before that, one needs to know a little about
Cranford’s background and perspective: Dr. Ronald Cranford is one of the most
outspoken advocates of the “right to die” movement and of physician-assisted suicide
in the U.S. today.
In published articles, including a 1997 op-ed in the Minneapolis–St. Paul Star Tribune,
he has advocated the starvation of Alzheimer’s patients. He has described PVS
patients as indistinguishable from other forms of animal life. He has said that PVS
patients and others with brain impairment lack personhood and should have no
constitutional rights. Perusing the case literature and articles surrounding the “right to
die” and PVS, one will see Dr. Cranford’s name surface again and again. In almost
every case, he is the one claiming PVS, and advocating the cessation of nutrition and
hydration.
In the cases of Paul Brophy, Nancy Jobes, Nancy Cruzan, and Christine Busalucci,
Cranford was the doctor behind the efforts to end their lives. Each of these people was
brain-damaged but not dying; nonetheless, he advocated death for all, by dehydration
and starvation. Nancy Cruzan did not even require a feeding tube: She could be
spoon-fed. But Cranford advocated denying even that, saying that even spoon-feeding
constituted “medical treatment” that could be licitly withdrawn.
In cases where other doctors don’t see it, Dr. Cranford seems to have a knack for
finding PVS. Cranford also diagnosed Robert Wendland as PVS. He did so in spite of
the fact that Wendland could pick up specifically colored pegs or blocks and hand
them to a therapy assistant on request. He did so in spite of the fact that Wendland
could operate and maneuver an ordinary wheelchair with his left hand and foot, and an
electric wheelchair with a joystick, of the kind that many disabled persons (most
famously Dr. Stephen Hawking) use. Dr. Cranford dismissed these abilities as
meaningless. Fortunately for Wendland, the California supreme court was not
persuaded by Cranford’s assessment.
Expert witnesses in court are supposed to be unbiased: disinterested in the outcome of
the case. Part of the procedure in qualifying expert witnesses is establishing that they
are objective and unbiased. But given Dr. Cranford’s history of advocacy in the “right to
die” and euthanasia movements, and given his track record of almost always coming
down on the side of PVS and removal of nutrition and hydration, one might question his
objectivity. Indeed, the Schindlers’ attorneys attempted to do so in the 2002 evidentiary
hearing at which Cranford testified, but went unheard. Organizations such as the
International Task Force on Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide submitted amicus curiae
(friend of the court) briefs in the appellate proceedings in Terri’s case, demonstrating
Cranford’s bias in detail. But these arguments also seemed to fall on deaf ears.
Some neurologists who also consult in legal cases were not surprised at the handling of
Dr. Cranford’s expert testimony. In theory, they said, the expert witness is supposed to
be objective, but, as Dr. Bell explained, “the way it really works is that an attorney
carefully selects an expert that will give him the outcome he desires.” He related that he
has been asked by attorneys to serve as an expert. “I have looked over medical
records,” he said, “and told attorneys what I thought.” But on occasion, he said, his
opinion was “obviously not what they wanted to hear” and “they moved on to another
expert.” Bell acknowledged that Cranford is “a highly accomplished and experienced
speaker,” but said that in him the court “likely found a highly prejudiced expert.”
Neurologists who are familiar with diagnosing and treating PVS and other brain injuries
have told me that PVS is a notoriously difficult diagnosis to make. It requires a great
deal of time spent with the patient over several days or weeks. The reason for this, as
Dr. Bell explained, is that brain-injured patients have severely disrupted sleep/wake
cycles. Dr. Mack Jones, a neurologist in Ft. Walton Beach, Fla., added that patients
with severe brain injury will have greatly varying levels of alertness: “Two independent
examiners may get an entirely different impression depending on when and how long
he/she has spent performing the examination. For example, one examiner may
unknowingly attempt to evaluate the patient during a stage of sleep. Another examiner,
by chance, may find a more responsive patient simply because [the patient is] now
more aroused.” Dr. Morin concurred, saying that in his experience “the attention of
brain-injured patients is very erratic,” and that because of this he has “seen inadequate
assessments even by experienced neurologists.” Because of these difficulties, the
American Academy of Neurology has made it clear that it can take months for a
physician to establish with confidence the diagnosis of PVS. A 1996 British Medical
Journal study, conducted at England’s Royal Hospital for Neurodisability, concluded
that there was a 43-percent error rate in the diagnosis of PVS. Inadequate time spent
by specialists evaluating patients was listed as a contributing factor for the high
incidence of errors.
So, did Dr. Cranford, or any of the doctors testifying for Michael Schiavo, spend months
evaluating Terri? No. To be fair, none of the doctors appearing for the Schindlers spent
months with Terri either. But it is hardly coincidental that the doctors who spent the
most time with Terri came to the conclusion that she is not PVS. The doctors brought in
by the Schindlers spent approximately 14 hours examining Terri over more than two
weeks; their conclusion was that Terri is not PVS, and that she may benefit from
therapy.
In marked contrast, Dr. Cranford examined Terri on one occasion, for approximately 45
minutes. Another doctor for Michael Schiavo, Dr. Peter Bambikidis of the Cleveland
Clinic Foundation in Ohio, examined Terri for about half an hour. When Dr. Bell learned
of the cursory nature of these exams, he said: “You can’t do this. To make a diagnosis
of PVS based on one examination is fallacious.” In Cranford’s examination, described
by one witness as “brutal,” he discounted evidence under his own eyes of Terri’s
responsiveness. At one point, Dr. Cranford struck Terri very hard on the forehead
between her eyes. Terri recoiled and moaned, seemingly in pain. In his court testimony,
Cranford dismissed the reaction and moan as a “reflex.”
"I asked Dr. Bell if he thought a moan uttered after a painful blow could be a reflex. "It's
highly unlikely," he replied. He qualified his answer by noting that he had not actually
seen the video of the exam, but he believes that the description of Terri's reaction is
not consistent with a reflex. "A moan is not a reflex," Bell said. "A wince or grimace is
not a reflex." "
By the very definition of Persistent Vegetative State, the patient must exhibit no
“evidence of awareness of self or environment” or “ability to interact with others.” As one
neurologist put it, if a patient shows “any response to the outside world, the patient isn’t
in a PVS.” All it takes, according to Dr. Jones, is “only one examiner to discover the
presence of higher brain function and the naysayers’ opinions are, by the very definition
of PVS, null and void.”
TERRI’S FUTURE — AND THE ISSUE OF TRUTH
Given the difficulty of diagnosing PVS, the high rate of error, the obvious bias of the
doctor whose judgment forms the basis of the judge’s ruling that Terri is PVS, and the
growing outcry from the neurological community, how is it that Judge Greer’s ruling has
been sustained? The answer is that in our legal system, once a judge has ruled on a
matter of fact, it is very difficult to revisit such a ruling. The lawyers’ rule of thumb is that
trial courts hear and rule on questions of fact, and appellate courts rule on questions of
law; it’s unusual for an appellate court to overturn a lower court’s ruling because of an
issue of fact.
That’s why, at every turn in this case, the Schindlers have had to try to undo the faulty
rulings of fact previously issued by Judge Greer. They’ve had to go back before Judge
Greer himself and try to convince him that he was wrong, and should undo his own
rulings. Judge Greer has proven unwilling to do so. The higher courts, unwilling to
overturn a trial judge’s rulings of fact, have no interest in granting new hearings.
Michael Schiavo and George Felos have no interest in revisiting Terri’s diagnosis, as
that ruling provides the whole legal basis of their ability to end her life. Dr. Cranford has
no interest in seeing his own diagnosis called into question. Dr. Bell lamented that at
this point, "medical realities are no longer governing this case." He added that it
seemed to him that medical issues concerning the care of the patient had been
subsumed by legal issues. In our courts, he added, "once a decision is made they don't
want additional information."
The whole history of Terri’s case over the past few years can be summed up as the
efforts of the Schindlers, and those who value Terri’s life, to try to introduce additional
information before the courts and other authorities. Some of this information consists of
facts and arguments that were ignored or dismissed without adequate consideration;
some has been the result of advances in the diagnosis and treatment of brain injuries
over the last five years. On the side of Michael Schiavo, George Felos, and Judge
Greer, their efforts have consisted almost entirely in trying to prevent any new
information from being presented or considered.
The legal system’s willful blindness to facts cannot succeed forever. The truth has a
way of coming out. But will it do so in time to save Terri Schiavo? Dr. Morin said to me,
towards the end of our conversation, that “the law can find a way to do the right thing if
it wants to.” The problem so far is that those who have the power to do the right thing | | | | | | | | | | | |
