| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bear" |
| Date: |
21 Dec 2006 01:51:50 PM |
| Object: |
The Anti-Jewish New Testament |
"Jewish people, who have read the New Testament throughout the history of
Christianity, became well aware of the numerous passages of vicious and
defamatory anti-Jewish polemic within it. On the other hand, Christians, in
general, have been insensitive to the offensive nature of these texts and to
the damage that their usage has done to the Jewish people throughout the
Common Era." (The Anti-Jewish New Testament;
http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html)
"The Gospel of Matthew contains approximately 90 verses of defamatory
anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
A sample of these verses would be:
Condemnation of the Pharisees for rejecting the commandments. (15:3-9)
The disciples of Jesus will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (19:28)
The scribes and Pharisees are repeatedly vilified as hypocrites (23:13-36)
All accepted and taught by the WCG.
"The Gospel of Mark contains approximately 40 verses of defamatory
anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
A sample of these verses would be:
The Pharisees are said to have begun to plan to destroy Jesus (3:6)
The Pharisees are said to be hard-hearted (10:2-5)
The chief priests and council condemn Jesus as deserving death (14:55-65)
All accepted and taught by the WCG.
"The Gospel of Luke contains approximately 60 verses of defamatory
anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
A sample of these verses would be:
The members of the synagogue in Nazareth try to kill Jesus (4:28-30)
The Pharisees are said to have rejected the purposes of God (7:30)
The house of Jerusalem is to be forsaken (13:35a)
All accepted and taught by the WCG.
"The Gospel of John contains approximately 130 verses of defamatory
anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid)
It is said that God's word and God's love is not in the Jews (5:37b-47)
It is said that none of the Jews do (what is written in) the Torah (7:19-24)
The Jews are said to be descendants of their father, the Devil (8:37-59)
All accepted and taught by the WCG.
"The Acts of the Apostles contains approximately 120 verses of defamatory
anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
Some Jews are said to have brought false accusations against Stephen
(6:11-14)
It is said that Jews cannot be forgiven by means of the Torah (13:39d)
Paul is said to have condemned the Jews for never understanding God
(28:25-28)
All accepted and taught by the WCG.
"Within the seven letters written by Paul and the six Pseudo-Pauline and
Deutero-Pauline epistles are found four verses which constitute some of the
most virulent anti-Jewish polemic present in the New Testament." (Ibid)
One of these would be:
Condemning the Jews for killing Jesus and the prophets, and celebrating the
suffering of the Jews now that the "wrath of God" has come upon them (1
Thessalonians 2:13-16)
Accepted and taught by the WCG.
"Can such anti-Jewish language be the "breathed word of G-d", as many
Christians believe the New Testament is, or the "inspired word of G-d", as
many other Christians believe?" (Ibid.)
"Question: What is the source of the common thread of anti-Semitism shared
by the historical acts of persecution of the Jewish people?
"Answer: The New Testament." (Ibid.)
"Today's hand-clapping Jew-loving "new Christians" are evangelical Christian
fundamentalists in disguise, some of whom even profess to be "Torah
Observant". They teach the same anti-Semitic doctrines as have been taught
by "The Church" throughout the Common Era. And while their tactics may have
changed, their agenda and message remain the same." (Ibid.)
It is my opinion that not only was the WCG intolerant of Judaism, but it was
also intolerant of any and all teachings that were at the least little
variance with their own dogma. This is definitely not confined to the WCG
but is found in many sects.
"Other churches were false churches, children of the devil." (A Brief
History of the Worldwide Church of God;
http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm)
"Armstrong viewed himself as God's apostle, leading the one true church.
Armstrong had supreme doctrinal authority." (Ibid.)
"We have all criticized other Christians as false, deceived, children of the
devil." (Ibid.)
"Very sadly, correct as the Worldwide Church of God is in understanding the
application of the new covenant to believers, their HQ and many of their
pastors have been very quietly drifting into amillennialism and "replacement
theology", which doctrinal eschatological interpretations I view as being
extremely inaccurate and having anti-Semitic bias, a bias that has
contributed to anti-Semitism in Europe for 1700 years of church history."
(http://www.unityinchrist.com/author.htm)
As you can see, I am not the only one who noticed this attitude in the WCG.
--
Bear
http://www.the-brights.net/
Both brights and supers merit recognition as citizens and fellow human
beings.
.
|
|
| User: "Bear" |
|
| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
22 Dec 2006 04:19:23 AM |
|
|
"Bear" wrote
: "Jewish people, who have read the New Testament throughout the history of
: Christianity, became well aware of the numerous passages of vicious and
: defamatory anti-Jewish polemic within it. On the other hand, Christians,
in
: general, have been insensitive to the offensive nature of these texts and
to
: the damage that their usage has done to the Jewish people throughout the
: Common Era." (The Anti-Jewish New Testament;
: http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html)
:
: "The Gospel of Matthew contains approximately 90 verses of defamatory
: anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
:
: A sample of these verses would be:
:
: Condemnation of the Pharisees for rejecting the commandments. (15:3-9)
: The disciples of Jesus will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (19:28)
: The scribes and Pharisees are repeatedly vilified as hypocrites (23:13-36)
:
: All accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "The Gospel of Mark contains approximately 40 verses of defamatory
: anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
:
: A sample of these verses would be:
:
: The Pharisees are said to have begun to plan to destroy Jesus (3:6)
: The Pharisees are said to be hard-hearted (10:2-5)
: The chief priests and council condemn Jesus as deserving death (14:55-65)
:
: All accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "The Gospel of Luke contains approximately 60 verses of defamatory
: anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
:
: A sample of these verses would be:
:
: The members of the synagogue in Nazareth try to kill Jesus (4:28-30)
: The Pharisees are said to have rejected the purposes of God (7:30)
: The house of Jerusalem is to be forsaken (13:35a)
:
: All accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "The Gospel of John contains approximately 130 verses of defamatory
: anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid)
:
: It is said that God's word and God's love is not in the Jews (5:37b-47)
: It is said that none of the Jews do (what is written in) the Torah
(7:19-24)
: The Jews are said to be descendants of their father, the Devil (8:37-59)
:
: All accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "The Acts of the Apostles contains approximately 120 verses of defamatory
: anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
:
: Some Jews are said to have brought false accusations against Stephen
: (6:11-14)
: It is said that Jews cannot be forgiven by means of the Torah (13:39d)
: Paul is said to have condemned the Jews for never understanding God
: (28:25-28)
:
: All accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "Within the seven letters written by Paul and the six Pseudo-Pauline and
: Deutero-Pauline epistles are found four verses which constitute some of
the
: most virulent anti-Jewish polemic present in the New Testament." (Ibid)
:
: One of these would be:
:
: Condemning the Jews for killing Jesus and the prophets, and celebrating
the
: suffering of the Jews now that the "wrath of God" has come upon them (1
: Thessalonians 2:13-16)
:
: Accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "Can such anti-Jewish language be the "breathed word of G-d", as many
: Christians believe the New Testament is, or the "inspired word of G-d", as
: many other Christians believe?" (Ibid.)
:
: "Question: What is the source of the common thread of anti-Semitism
shared
: by the historical acts of persecution of the Jewish people?
: "Answer: The New Testament." (Ibid.)
:
: "Today's hand-clapping Jew-loving "new Christians" are evangelical
Christian
: fundamentalists in disguise, some of whom even profess to be "Torah
: Observant". They teach the same anti-Semitic doctrines as have been
taught
: by "The Church" throughout the Common Era. And while their tactics may
have
: changed, their agenda and message remain the same." (Ibid.)
:
: It is my opinion that not only was the WCG intolerant of Judaism, but it
was
: also intolerant of any and all teachings that were at the least little
: variance with their own dogma. This is definitely not confined to the WCG
: but is found in many sects.
:
: "Other churches were false churches, children of the devil." (A Brief
: History of the Worldwide Church of God;
: http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm)
:
: "Armstrong viewed himself as God's apostle, leading the one true church.
: Armstrong had supreme doctrinal authority." (Ibid.)
:
: "We have all criticized other Christians as false, deceived, children of
the
: devil." (Ibid.)
:
: "Very sadly, correct as the Worldwide Church of God is in understanding
the
: application of the new covenant to believers, their HQ and many of their
: pastors have been very quietly drifting into amillennialism and
"replacement
: theology", which doctrinal eschatological interpretations I view as being
: extremely inaccurate and having anti-Semitic bias, a bias that has
: contributed to anti-Semitism in Europe for 1700 years of church history."
: (http://www.unityinchrist.com/author.htm)
:
: As you can see, I am not the only one who noticed this attitude in the
WCG.
-----------------
Anyone caring to read the whole article "The Anti-Jewish New Testament"
http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html will see that the NT is full of
anti-Jewish polemic.
As I have been saying on this newsgroup for the last few days, no church can
believe and teach the New Testament without being anti-Jewish (anti-Semitic)
to one degree or another. I realize that while some NT churches do attempt
to minimize their anti-Jewish teaching, there is no way to hold to the
teachings of the NT without being anti-Jewish to some degree.
I have been accused of lying and having some grudge against the WCG because
I have been objective enough to see what I just stated above. These
accusations were made because certain people cannot be objective for one
reason or another. If it isn't just egoism that motivates these detractors,
there must be some secrets they would rather we don't know about. They seem
to think they are the most learned men on the planet and therefore no one
should challenge anything they say. I will believe scholars like the author
of "The Anti-Jewish New Testament" before I would believe the backwoods
pundits on this newsgroup.
Unlike these pundits, I am willing to listen to reason. If anyone can show
me how a church can honestly teach the whole plan of God using every verse
in the NT without there being some degree of anti-Jewishness to their
teaching, I will be glad to discuss it.
Of course these egotists are in my killfile so they would have to use my
email should they decide that they wish to have an intellectually honest
dialogue on the subject.
--
Bear
http://www.the-brights.net/
Both brights and supers merit recognition as citizens and fellow human
beings.
.
|
|
|
| User: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?cantc=FF?=" |
|
| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) - alleged inchoate crimes |
22 Dec 2006 08:40:40 AM |
|
|
Bear wrote:
"Bear" misrepresented:
: "Very sadly, correct as the Worldwide Church of God is in understanding the
: application of the new covenant to believers, their HQ and many of their
: pastors have been very quietly drifting into amillennialism and
: "replacement theology", which doctrinal eschatological interpretations I
: view as being extremely inaccurate and having anti-Semitic bias, a bias
: that has contributed to anti-Semitism in Europe for 1700 years of church
: history." (http://www.unityinchrist.com/author.htm)
:
: As you can see, I am not the only one who noticed this attitude in the
WCG.
I have been accused of lying and having some grudge against the WCG because
I have been objective enough to see what I just stated above.
What is stated above is something you took out of context.
It applies neither to the WCG before 1995 nor to the WCG under HWA.
These accusations were made because certain people cannot be objective for one
reason or another.
You are the one who is misrepresenting reality and failing to be objective.
If it isn't just egoism that motivates these detractors,
there must be some secrets they would rather we don't know about.
Really? Let's hear what it is.
The secret is that you are seeking revenge.
Unlike these pundits, I am willing to listen to reason. If anyone can show
me how a church can honestly teach the whole plan of God using every verse
in the NT without there being some degree of anti-Jewishness to their
teaching, I will be glad to discuss it.
No, you rejected that out of hand.
You were already told how the WCG explained away anything against Jews, Judaism, or Judaizing.
The reality is that the WCG was filled with Judophiles.
Anti-Semitism would not have been tolerated.
You are trying to indict for inferred anti-Semitism.
The reality is that anti-Semitism was not there.
Of course these egotists are in my killfile so they would have to use my
email should they decide that they wish to have an intellectually honest
dialogue on the subject.
Is there some secret you wish to hide?
.
|
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
|
| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
22 Dec 2006 11:04:15 AM |
|
|
Bear wrote:
"Bear" wrote
: "Jewish people, who have read the New Testament throughout the history of
: Christianity, became well aware of the numerous passages of vicious and
: defamatory anti-Jewish polemic within it. On the other hand, Christians,
in
: general, have been insensitive to the offensive nature of these texts and
to
: the damage that their usage has done to the Jewish people throughout the
: Common Era." (The Anti-Jewish New Testament;
: http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html)
:
: "The Gospel of Matthew contains approximately 90 verses of defamatory
: anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
:
: A sample of these verses would be:
:
: Condemnation of the Pharisees for rejecting the commandments. (15:3-9)
: The disciples of Jesus will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (19:28)
: The scribes and Pharisees are repeatedly vilified as hypocrites (23:13-36)
:
: All accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "The Gospel of Mark contains approximately 40 verses of defamatory
: anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
:
: A sample of these verses would be:
:
: The Pharisees are said to have begun to plan to destroy Jesus (3:6)
: The Pharisees are said to be hard-hearted (10:2-5)
: The chief priests and council condemn Jesus as deserving death (14:55-65)
:
: All accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "The Gospel of Luke contains approximately 60 verses of defamatory
: anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
:
: A sample of these verses would be:
:
: The members of the synagogue in Nazareth try to kill Jesus (4:28-30)
: The Pharisees are said to have rejected the purposes of God (7:30)
: The house of Jerusalem is to be forsaken (13:35a)
:
: All accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "The Gospel of John contains approximately 130 verses of defamatory
: anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid)
:
: It is said that God's word and God's love is not in the Jews (5:37b-47)
: It is said that none of the Jews do (what is written in) the Torah
(7:19-24)
: The Jews are said to be descendants of their father, the Devil (8:37-59)
:
: All accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "The Acts of the Apostles contains approximately 120 verses of defamatory
: anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
:
: Some Jews are said to have brought false accusations against Stephen
: (6:11-14)
: It is said that Jews cannot be forgiven by means of the Torah (13:39d)
: Paul is said to have condemned the Jews for never understanding God
: (28:25-28)
:
: All accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "Within the seven letters written by Paul and the six Pseudo-Pauline and
: Deutero-Pauline epistles are found four verses which constitute some of
the
: most virulent anti-Jewish polemic present in the New Testament." (Ibid)
:
: One of these would be:
:
: Condemning the Jews for killing Jesus and the prophets, and celebrating
the
: suffering of the Jews now that the "wrath of God" has come upon them (1
: Thessalonians 2:13-16)
:
: Accepted and taught by the WCG.
:
: "Can such anti-Jewish language be the "breathed word of G-d", as many
: Christians believe the New Testament is, or the "inspired word of G-d", as
: many other Christians believe?" (Ibid.)
:
: "Question: What is the source of the common thread of anti-Semitism
shared
: by the historical acts of persecution of the Jewish people?
: "Answer: The New Testament." (Ibid.)
:
: "Today's hand-clapping Jew-loving "new Christians" are evangelical
Christian
: fundamentalists in disguise, some of whom even profess to be "Torah
: Observant". They teach the same anti-Semitic doctrines as have been
taught
: by "The Church" throughout the Common Era. And while their tactics may
have
: changed, their agenda and message remain the same." (Ibid.)
:
: It is my opinion that not only was the WCG intolerant of Judaism, but it
was
: also intolerant of any and all teachings that were at the least little
: variance with their own dogma. This is definitely not confined to the WCG
: but is found in many sects.
:
: "Other churches were false churches, children of the devil." (A Brief
: History of the Worldwide Church of God;
: http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm)
:
: "Armstrong viewed himself as God's apostle, leading the one true church.
: Armstrong had supreme doctrinal authority." (Ibid.)
:
: "We have all criticized other Christians as false, deceived, children of
the
: devil." (Ibid.)
:
: "Very sadly, correct as the Worldwide Church of God is in understanding
the
: application of the new covenant to believers, their HQ and many of their
: pastors have been very quietly drifting into amillennialism and
"replacement
: theology", which doctrinal eschatological interpretations I view as being
: extremely inaccurate and having anti-Semitic bias, a bias that has
: contributed to anti-Semitism in Europe for 1700 years of church history."
: (http://www.unityinchrist.com/author.htm)
:
: As you can see, I am not the only one who noticed this attitude in the
WCG.
-----------------
Anyone caring to read the whole article "The Anti-Jewish New Testament"
http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html will see that the NT is full of
anti-Jewish polemic.
As I have been saying on this newsgroup for the last few days, no church can
believe and teach the New Testament without being anti-Jewish (anti-Semitic)
to one degree or another. I realize that while some NT churches do attempt
to minimize their anti-Jewish teaching, there is no way to hold to the
teachings of the NT without being anti-Jewish to some degree.
I have been accused of lying and having some grudge against the WCG because
I have been objective enough to see what I just stated above. These
accusations were made because certain people cannot be objective for one
reason or another. If it isn't just egoism that motivates these detractors,
there must be some secrets they would rather we don't know about. They seem
to think they are the most learned men on the planet and therefore no one
should challenge anything they say. I will believe scholars like the author
of "The Anti-Jewish New Testament" before I would believe the backwoods
pundits on this newsgroup.
Unlike these pundits, I am willing to listen to reason. If anyone can show
me how a church can honestly teach the whole plan of God using every verse
in the NT without there being some degree of anti-Jewishness to their
teaching, I will be glad to discuss it.
Of course these egotists are in my killfile so they would have to use my
email should they decide that they wish to have an intellectually honest
dialogue on the subject.
--
Bear
http://www.the-brights.net/
Both brights and supers merit recognition as citizens and fellow human
beings.
It sounds like your arguement is with the WCG, of which I am not a
member! The WCG has been recognized as a Christian cult by the main
stream Christian Church, as long as I have known of it! I recall that
they teach British Israelism, and do not rely on the Blood of Christ
for their salvation! These two basic errors, would render them in my
trash bin alone. I am sure that if we studied more, we could find many
other areas of deviation from the truth!
I have seen some of the post here by one Herberwarmstrong, which are
reprints of the WCG. I have found nothing within them to be edifying,
and the spamming of the forum by a follower of the WCG would indicate
that they as individuals do not respect the boundries of others. This
lack of respect could easily include Jewish individuals whether
believer or not!
I would encourage you to consider that there are many individuals
within the Christian church who have supported the recreation of the
nation of Israel homeland! You are not alone in being persecuted
though for the scriptures say that the world is against us as well.
That there are those who have allowed the church to be used and abused
as an instrument of the world, is no less regretable than that there
were those in the nation of Israel who abused the Son of God, the
Messiah! And yet even at that time there were those in the nation of
Israel who did believe! We who are gentiles, should consider that the
unbelief of some, meant that salvation was brought to us, and that we
should not think more highly of ourselves than we should, less we incur
the same wrath of God that was poured out on unbelieving Israel, and be
cut off!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bear" |
|
| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
23 Dec 2006 03:38:26 AM |
|
|
gatekeeper wrote:
It sounds like your arguement is with the WCG, of which I am not a
member!
I don't have anymore of an argument with the WCG than I do any other
Xian church. In fact, the WCG was a lot less anti-Semitic than most
others. The reason that I finally quit attending the WCG was that they
were changing their doctrines toward orthodoxy Xianity. Therefore I
began attending church with the Church of God (Seventh Day). But I
visited the WCG after I quit going until the Feast of Unleavened Bread
the spring following the changes. The last day of the feast was very
bittersweet for me because I knew that I would be breaking clean of the
WCG and had to say good-bye to many brethren that I love very much.
Thankfully, the WCG wasn't as before and the members could still
socialize with me even though I was a member of another church.
I have seen some of the post here by one Herberwarmstrong, which are
reprints of the WCG. I have found nothing within them to be edifying,
and the spamming of the forum by a follower of the WCG would indicate
that they as individuals do not respect the boundries of others. This
lack of respect could easily include Jewish individuals whether
believer or not!
That isn't what I have been talking about. Everybody seems to overreact
because it is my opinion that any church that teaches the NT without
leaving major portions out is teaching anti-Judaism, which is in my
opinion ant-Semitic.
I would encourage you to consider that there are many individuals
within the Christian church who have supported the recreation of the
nation of Israel homeland! You are not alone in being persecuted
though for the scriptures say that the world is against us as well.
That there are those who have allowed the church to be used and abused
as an instrument of the world, is no less regretable than that there
were those in the nation of Israel who abused the Son of God, the
Messiah! And yet even at that time there were those in the nation of
Israel who did believe! We who are gentiles, should consider that the
unbelief of some, meant that salvation was brought to us, and that we
should not think more highly of ourselves than we should, less we incur
the same wrath of God that was poured out on unbelieving Israel, and be
cut off!
In my opinion, your very last sentence is anti-Semitic.
--
Bear
http://www.the-brights.net/
Both brights and supers merit recognition as citizens and fellow human
beings.
.
|
|
|
| User: "gatekeeper" |
|
| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
23 Dec 2006 03:49:49 AM |
|
|
Bear wrote:
gatekeeper wrote:
It sounds like your arguement is with the WCG, of which I am not a
member!
I don't have anymore of an argument with the WCG than I do any other
Xian church. In fact, the WCG was a lot less anti-Semitic than most
others. The reason that I finally quit attending the WCG was that they
were changing their doctrines toward orthodoxy Xianity. Therefore I
began attending church with the Church of God (Seventh Day). But I
visited the WCG after I quit going until the Feast of Unleavened Bread
the spring following the changes. The last day of the feast was very
bittersweet for me because I knew that I would be breaking clean of the
WCG and had to say good-bye to many brethren that I love very much.
Thankfully, the WCG wasn't as before and the members could still
socialize with me even though I was a member of another church.
I have seen some of the post here by one Herberwarmstrong, which are
reprints of the WCG. I have found nothing within them to be edifying,
and the spamming of the forum by a follower of the WCG would indicate
that they as individuals do not respect the boundries of others. This
lack of respect could easily include Jewish individuals whether
believer or not!
That isn't what I have been talking about. Everybody seems to overreact
because it is my opinion that any church that teaches the NT without
leaving major portions out is teaching anti-Judaism, which is in my
opinion ant-Semitic.
I would encourage you to consider that there are many individuals
within the Christian church who have supported the recreation of the
nation of Israel homeland! You are not alone in being persecuted
though for the scriptures say that the world is against us as well.
That there are those who have allowed the church to be used and abused
as an instrument of the world, is no less regretable than that there
were those in the nation of Israel who abused the Son of God, the
Messiah! And yet even at that time there were those in the nation of
Israel who did believe! We who are gentiles, should consider that the
unbelief of some, meant that salvation was brought to us, and that we
should not think more highly of ourselves than we should, less we incur
the same wrath of God that was poured out on unbelieving Israel, and be
cut off!
In my opinion, your very last sentence is anti-Semitic.
--
Bear
http://www.the-brights.net/
Both brights and supers merit recognition as citizens and fellow human
beings.
Nope, my best friend outside the Church, is a Jew who survived Dachau!
I am hardly anti-Semitic! I am aware that there were certain men who
did not Love God, who called for the Crucifixtion of Christ! These
were a mixed band of Jews and Gentiles, and as we were told, some of
them saw Him when He returned in 70 AD, and I suspect they had a flash
of insight that they had made a collosal error! A major opps!
They I am sure, had some explaining to do! Now the rest of us, are
faced with the same decision they made! They made it on a national
level, we make it on a personal level! So who do you say Jesus is, and
do you trust Him for the forgiveness of your Sins?
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! Whosoever will, may
come in!
Gatekeeper
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bear" |
|
| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
23 Dec 2006 03:57:16 AM |
|
|
gatekeeper wrote:
Nope, my best friend outside the Church, is a Jew who survived Dachau!
I am hardly anti-Semitic! I am aware that there were certain men who
did not Love God, who called for the Crucifixtion of Christ! These
were a mixed band of Jews and Gentiles, and as we were told, some of
them saw Him when He returned in 70 AD, and I suspect they had a flash
of insight that they had made a collosal error! A major opps!
They I am sure, had some explaining to do! Now the rest of us, are
faced with the same decision they made! They made it on a national
level, we make it on a personal level! So who do you say Jesus is, and
do you trust Him for the forgiveness of your Sins?
I say the real Jesus is Barabbas and no, I don't trust a dead man for
anything.
--
Bear
http://www.the-brights.net/
Both brights and supers merit recognition as citizens and fellow human
beings.
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
09 Jan 2007 04:03:13 AM |
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Bear wrote:
gatekeeper wrote:
Nope, my best friend outside the Church, is a Jew who survived Dachau!
I am hardly anti-Semitic! I am aware that there were certain men who
did not Love God, who called for the Crucifixtion of Christ! These
were a mixed band of Jews and Gentiles, and as we were told, some of
them saw Him when He returned in 70 AD, and I suspect they had a flash
of insight that they had made a collosal error! A major opps!
They I am sure, had some explaining to do! Now the rest of us, are
faced with the same decision they made! They made it on a national
level, we make it on a personal level! So who do you say Jesus is, and
do you trust Him for the forgiveness of your Sins?
I say the real Jesus is Barabbas
exactly correct.
The evidence is overwhelming that the underlying aramaic tale is an
account of one `yeshua bar abba` , the Barabbas character, attempting
to fulfill the prescription in sefer Zekaryah and effect divine
intervention.
the neo-platonic /gnostic and neo-pythagorean revision in koine (not
classical) greek which transforms Jews into antagonists and Romans into
protagonists.
examination of the most archaic manuscripts viz.
p56,66,75(kakourgos),104 indicate a work in transition moving AWAY from
a Judaic oriented story toward a greek story.
fossilized passages such as that of John 11:48-50 explain precisely the
circumstances for his HUMAN death:
"we found this fellow pereverting the nation, and forbidding to give
tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is an anointed, a king."
and no, I don't trust a dead man for
anything.
--
Bear
http://www.the-brights.net/
Both brights and supers merit recognition as citizens and fellow human
beings.
.
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| User: "Zorro" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
09 Jan 2007 08:57:18 PM |
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"Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" <hasatan@grex.cyberspace.org> wrote in message
news:1168336992.867114.74010@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
Bear wrote:
gatekeeper wrote:
Nope, my best friend outside the Church, is a Jew who survived Dachau!
I am hardly anti-Semitic! I am aware that there were certain men who
did not Love God, who called for the Crucifixtion of Christ! These
were a mixed band of Jews and Gentiles, and as we were told, some of
them saw Him when He returned in 70 AD, and I suspect they had a flash
of insight that they had made a collosal error! A major opps!
They I am sure, had some explaining to do! Now the rest of us, are
faced with the same decision they made! They made it on a national
level, we make it on a personal level! So who do you say Jesus is, and
do you trust Him for the forgiveness of your Sins?
I say the real Jesus is Barabbas
exactly correct.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
so you pray.
The evidence is overwhelming that the underlying aramaic tale is an
account of one `yeshua bar abba` , the Barabbas character, attempting
to fulfill the prescription in sefer Zekaryah and effect divine
intervention.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"imaginiative reasoning"
the neo-platonic /gnostic and neo-pythagorean revision in koine (not
classical) greek which transforms Jews into antagonists and Romans into
protagonists.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Transforms? The record clearly shows nothing of the sort. "imaginative
reasoning" comes up short every time.
examination of the most archaic manuscripts viz.
p56,66,75(kakourgos),104 indicate a work in transition moving AWAY from
a Judaic oriented story toward a greek story.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Reality is that it was a 'neutral' story from the get go and continues
thusly ... neither being judaic nor gentile in nature.
fossilized passages such as that of John 11:48-50 explain precisely the
circumstances for his HUMAN death:
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Envy.
"we found this fellow pereverting the nation, and forbidding to give
tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is an anointed, a king."
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
And the record elsewhere refuted their assertion .... Mat 22:17, Mark 12.14
and Luke 20:22.
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the
things which be God's.?"
and no, I don't trust a dead man for
anything
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
It's trust in what the live man stated prior to ... becoming a dead man.
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
10 Jan 2007 02:47:11 AM |
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Zorro wrote:
"Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]"
news:1168336992.867114.74010@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
Bear wrote:
gatekeeper wrote:
level, we make it on a personal level! So who do you say Jesus is, and
do you trust Him for the forgiveness of your Sins?
I say the real Jesus is Barabbas
exactly correct.
The evidence is overwhelming that the underlying aramaic tale is an
account of one `yeshua bar abba` , the Barabbas character, attempting
to fulfill the prescription in sefer Zekaryah and effect divine
intervention.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"imaginiative reasoning"
the yeshua character [the one speaking aramaic, not the "logos"]
follows Zekaryah as a script, as Libertarius has put it.
he and his military organization occupy the temple ("Jesus and the
moneychangers").
in the kindlier greek version no one is killed, no blood is spilled,
and the weapon was merely a rope.
the neo-platonic /gnostic and neo-pythagorean revision in koine (not
classical) greek which transforms Jews into antagonists and Romans into
protagonists.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Transforms?
yes ; notice P104 is adding verse by verse the replacement of israel
with an international body `ioudaioi tou en krupto`.
examination of the most archaic manuscripts viz.
p56,66,75(kakourgos),104 indicate a work in transition moving AWAY from
a Judaic oriented story toward a greek story.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Reality is that it was a 'neutral' story
it is actually a composite of several stories and several disparate
characters from the area of Egypt, Cappodocia (Mithra), Syria, the
Lebanon and a visitor to India, Appollonius of Tyana.
the original story however is of one character, a torah observant Jew
who is inspired by sefer Zekaryah to attempt to cleanse the temple and
effect divine intervention.
neither being judaic nor gentile in nature.
the main character is an aramaic speaking torah observant Jew.
your ignorance is appalling.
fossilized passages such as that of John 11:48-50 explain precisely the
circumstances for his HUMAN death:
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Envy.
that might work for one who presumes that yeshua was anti-judaic but
the fact is the priests had convened in John 11:48 to attempt to
protect yeshua and yet prevent a roman massacre. you simply can't read
the passage in english much less greek.
and you still don't understand the meaning of `ethnos`.
"we found this fellow pereverting the nation, and forbidding to give
tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is an anointed, a king."
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
And the record elsewhere refuted their assertion .... Mat 22:17, Mark 12.14
and Luke 20:22.
an
obvious fabrication in response to what the crowds of Jerusalem and the
roman government --and `yeshua` himself-- considered indisputable:
"forbidding tribute to caesar, saying that he himself is an anointed
[one], a king."
Mat 22:17
"what thinkest thou, is it lawful to give tribute unto caesar or not?"
Immediately we notice that, whether or not the Gospels are histories to
any degree, the conflict of Rome against Jew is prominent.
in this case, the incident of the passage in the Gospels delineating
the conflict is sufficient: who came with the coin ? who showed the
coin to `yeshua` to trap him ? the passage is obviously a pro-Roman
(classical culture/greek) editor.
if a Roman tax collector had arrived with some soldiers the passage
would be more believable. as i was told in the middle east competing
whorehouses are always calling the police on their competitors.
he and his military organization occupy the temple ("Jesus and the
moneychangers").
in the kindlier greek version no one is killed, no blood is spilled,
and the weapon was merely a rope.
no one disputes that he cleared and occupied the temple (a capital
offense).
why is he then allegedly telling his new subjects to pay tribute to
caesar?
obviously there is more than one yeshua character --the radical yehudi
and the greek gnostic are two of them.
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
10 Jan 2007 02:50:35 AM |
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Bear wrote:
gatekeeper wrote:
unbelief of some, meant that salvation was brought to us, and that we
should not think more highly of ourselves than we should, less we incur
the same wrath of God that was poured out on unbelieving Israel, and be
cut off!
In my opinion, your very last sentence is anti-Semitic.
ridiculous in light of yechezqel 20:44 and 36:22
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
11 Jan 2007 12:03:27 AM |
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Bear wrote:
"Bear" wrote
: "Jewish people, who have read the New Testament throughout the history of
: Christianity, became well aware of the numerous passages of vicious and
: defamatory anti-Jewish polemic within it. On the other hand, Christians,
in
: general, have been insensitive to the offensive nature of these texts and
to
: the damage that their usage has done to the Jewish people throughout the
: Common Era." (The Anti-Jewish New Testament;
: http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html)
:
: "The Gospel of Matthew contains approximately 90 verses of defamatory
: anti-Jewish polemic." (Ibid.)
:
: A sample of these verses would be:
:
: Condemnation of the Pharisees for rejecting the commandments. (15:3-9)
: The disciples of Jesus will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (19:28)
: The scribes and Pharisees are repeatedly vilified as hypocrites (23:13-36)
The first question should be, is the narrative true? Defamation
includes the requirement that the statements be false. If all that is
said of Rasputin were true, nobody could "defame" him.
And if it's true, nobody should care whether the Jews get their toes
stepped on. Goodness knows, every other people in history demonstrates
their human frailty. Why not the Jews?
Anyone caring to read the whole article "The Anti-Jewish New Testament"
http://www.messiahtruth.com/anti.html will see that the NT is full of
anti-Jewish polemic.
My gracious! And the Jewish websites are not full of anti-Muslim
polemic? And anti-German polemic?
The most anti-"Jewish" document in all existence is the Old Testament -
the holy "Tanach" of the Jews. You look into the so-called saints of
the Jews, and you find they are adulterers, murderers of women and
children, worshipers of idols, betrayers, infanticides, robbers,
butchers, fratricides, liars, rapists, traitors, and the most bigoted
racists in history. - all of it ordered or approved by their "God."
What does it matter that the Jews murdered a handful - or a few
thousand - Christians? The histories revered by Jews show not that
they are "flawed," but that they worship degradation and evil.
The fact that Jews think the Old Testament saints were Godly is the
worst condemnation anyone could hurl at the Jews. Beside the ancient
Hebrews, even the Nazis look good.
Unlike these pundits, I am willing to listen to reason. If anyone can show
me how a church can honestly teach the whole plan of God using every verse
in the NT without there being some degree of anti-Jewishness to their
teaching, I will be glad to discuss it.
And your Talmud, based as it is on the Old Testament, is just as bad.
One saint in the Talmud went out and tried and hung eighty "witches in
one day." (Sanhedrin 45b) No doubt all those ladies got fair trials
with full opportunity to confront and question their accusers.
Of course these egotists are in my killfile
Satan has them on his list, and they never will be missed. Like the
friend of vile Iscariot who died when he was kissed, Satan has them in
his killfile and they'll soon cease to exist.
Remember how Moses kept an "enemies" list of races he planned to wipe
out? And it was all ordered by the Jewish "God."
so they would have to use my
email should they decide that they wish to have an intellectually honest
dialogue on the subject.
An "intellectually honest dialogue" with Satan would be like a dry swim
across the Hellespont.
TCross
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
11 Jan 2007 03:31:23 AM |
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Carol Valentine as Terry Cross wrote:
the holy "Tanach" of the Jews. You look into the so-called saints of
the Jews, and you find they are adulterers, murderers of women and
children, worshipers of idols, betrayers, infanticides, robbers,
butchers, fratricides, liars, rapists, traitors, and the most bigoted
racists in history. - all of it ordered or approved by their "God."
apparently Carol Valentine's idea of "intellectual honesty" ?
What does it matter that the Jews murdered a handful - or a few
thousand - Christians? The histories revered by Jews show not that
they are "flawed," but that they worship degradation and evil.
The fact that Jews think the Old Testament saints were Godly is the
worst condemnation anyone could hurl at the Jews. Beside the ancient
Hebrews, even the Nazis look good.
shouldn't that be "Japanese" or "Anglo Americans" or "Germans" ...?
apparently Carol Valentine's idea of "intellectual honesty" ?
And your Talmud, based as it is on the Old Testament, is just as bad.
One saint in the Talmud went out and tried and hung eighty "witches in
one day." (Sanhedrin 45b) No doubt all those ladies got fair trials
with full opportunity to confront and question their accusers.
apparently Carol Valentine's idea of "intellectual honesty" ?
An "intellectually honest dialogue" with Satan would be like a dry swim
across the Hellespont.
TCross
don't you have any fear of `karma` ...?
the significance of `logos` as `eikon`-ic is not without a relation to
`techne` and `physik`.
the nasty things you say about the jewish people are simply the narrow
and deep abcesses of your fermenting `psyche`/psuche [your romanization
preferred]
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
11 Jan 2007 11:53:27 PM |
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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
The fact that Jews think the Old Testament saints were Godly is the
worst condemnation anyone could hurl at the Jews. Beside the ancient
Hebrews, even the Nazis look good.
shouldn't that be "Japanese" or "Anglo Americans" or "Germans" ...?
apparently Carol Valentine's idea of "intellectual honesty" ?
I don't know - I never met the woman, and I doubt you have.
And your Talmud, based as it is on the Old Testament, is just as bad.
One saint in the Talmud went out and tried and hung eighty "witches in
one day." (Sanhedrin 45b) No doubt all those ladies got fair trials
with full opportunity to confront and question their accusers.
apparently Carol Valentine's idea of "intellectual honesty" ?
If you are so obsessed with her, maybe you should seek her out.
An "intellectually honest dialogue" with Satan would be like a dry swim
across the Hellespont.
TCross
don't you have any fear of `karma` ...?
What is that - another Hebrew God? One of the Talmud sages?
No, I have no fear of any of your superstitions.
the nasty things you say about the jewish people are simply ...
I have said nothing nasty about Jewish people except that their own
choice of holy books is the worst defamation anyone has hurled at them.
No one has insulted them as much as their own religion.
TCross
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
12 Jan 2007 05:31:53 AM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
The fact that Jews think the Old Testament saints were Godly is the
worst condemnation anyone could hurl at the Jews. Beside the ancient
Hebrews, even the Nazis look good.
shouldn't that be "Japanese" or "Anglo Americans" or "Germans" ...?
apparently Carol Valentine's idea of "intellectual honesty" ?
I don't know - I never met the woman,
this is the "Terry" Carol speaking ?
don't you have any fear of `karma` ...?
What is that - another Hebrew God?
One of the Talmud sages?
just when we thought we'd seen the depths of your ignorance, you add
more depth.
No, I have no fear of any of your superstitions.
which superstitions are those, Carol ?
the nasty things you say about the jewish people are simply ...
I have said nothing nasty about Jewish people except that their own
choice of holy books is the worst defamation anyone has hurled at them.
No one has insulted them as much as their own religion.
TCross
so what you're trying to say in your barely intelligible manner is that
the jews are innocent victims of evil non-jews who captured them and
coerced them into judaism ...?
when you're alone at night (or dawn, i should say, after returning from
"work"), do you play tapes of applause and pretend you are receiving
the Nobel prize for various fields ...?
does Carol get upset if Terry has more prizes ?
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
12 Jan 2007 11:42:59 PM |
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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
so what you're trying to say in your barely intelligible manner is that
the jews are innocent victims of evil non-jews who captured them and
coerced them into judaism ...?
Not quite. Most Jews are the victims of their parents and their
rabbis, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis, thinking they
are better than all other people, and they are hated by all their
inferiors.
That is the poisonous formula preached by Ezra - you remember, the
humanitarian who drove all the Gentile women and children off to the
wilderness because they had made the mistake of having Jewish husbands
and fathers.
Makes the heart go pitter pat just to think of a god-fearing man
willing to make such sacrifice for the love of his God.
TCross
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| User: "Weatherwax" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
15 Jan 2007 10:05:44 AM |
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"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Not quite. Most Jews are the victims of their parents and their
rabbis, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis, thinking they
are better than all other people, and they are hated by all their
inferiors.
Not quite. Most Christians are the victims of their parents and religious
teachers, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis, thinking they are
better than all other people, and they are hated by everybody.
--Wax
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
15 Jan 2007 11:05:14 AM |
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Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Not quite. Most Jews are the victims of their parents and their
rabbis, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis, thinking they
are better than all other people, and they are hated by all their
inferiors.
Not quite.
With those words of introduction, one would expect a logical rebuttal.
Most Christians are the victims of their parents and religious
teachers, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis, thinking they are
better than all other people, and they are hated by everybody.
Instead, all we get is a change of subject. How quaint.
TCross
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
17 Jan 2007 02:39:25 AM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Not quite. Most Jews are the victims of their parents and their
rabbis, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis, thinking they
are better than all other people, and they are hated by all their
inferiors.
Not quite.
With those words of introduction, one would expect a logical rebuttal.
Most Christians are the victims of their parents and religious
teachers, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis, thinking they are
better than all other people, and they are hated by everybody.
Instead, all we get is a change of subject. How quaint.
TCross
what the poster demonstrated is that your analysis is superficial and
can be applied to any group.
"group" = functionally distinct identity
you will never get to the bottom of these things, that is certain.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
17 Jan 2007 08:56:26 AM |
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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Not quite. Most Jews are the victims of their parents and their
rabbis, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis, thinking they
are better than all other people, and they are hated by all their
inferiors.
Not quite.
With those words of introduction, one would expect a logical rebuttal.
Most Christians are the victims of their parents and religious
teachers, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis, thinking they are
better than all other people, and they are hated by everybody.
Instead, all we get is a change of subject. How quaint.
TCross
what the poster demonstrated is that your analysis is superficial and
can be applied to any group.
Only one identifiable group holds as an element of faith the tenet that
the group and its members are hated by all the rest of humanity. Do
you know what that group is?
Second clue: That tenet of faith became one of the foundation
principles of a nation, and is still used to justify war crimes against
a second group.
Still guessing?
Third clue: That tenet of faith has deluded the group into the doctrine
that it is uniquely qualified to teach all other groups the virtue of
"tolerance."
Oh, come on, the clock is running out.
OK, fourth clue: That tenet of faith has deluded the group into
building monuments to its own suffering all around the world on
government money, and requiring all other groups to express guilt for
that suffering.
Still wondering?
TCross
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| User: "Weatherwax" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
17 Jan 2007 11:51:39 AM |
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"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Not quite. Most Jews are the victims of their parents
and their rabbis, who train them into crazy racism and
neurosis, thinking they are better than all other people,
and they are hated by all their inferiors.
Not quite.
With those words of introduction, one would expect a logical
rebuttal.
Most Christians are the victims of their parents and religious
teachers, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis,
thinking they are better than all other people, and they are
hated by everybody.
Instead, all we get is a change of subject. How quaint.
TCross
what the poster demonstrated is that your analysis is superficial
and can be applied to any group.
Only one identifiable group holds as an element of faith the tenet that
the group and its members are hated by all the rest of humanity. Do
you know what that group is?
That group is Christians. You are referring to Matthew 10:22, "And ye
shall be hated of all men for my name's sake." There are several other
passages to the same effect, such as Matthew 24:9, Luke 6:22, Luke 21:17,
John 15:18, 1 John 3:13.
Second clue: That tenet of faith became one of the foundation
principles of a nation, and is still used to justify war crimes against
a second group.
Now you are referring to Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of
all nations." That has been used to justify Christian imperialism all over
the world. Particularly in Asia, Africa, and North and South America.
Christians believe that they have a sacred duty to convert everybody else to
their way of thinking. This is what has caused them to be hated in every
non-Christian nation which they had tried to subdue.
Still guessing?
Your clues are too easy.
Third clue: That tenet of faith has deluded the group into the doctrine
that it is uniquely qualified to teach all other groups the virtue of
"tolerance."
An exact description of Christianity. Christian churches send missionaries
into every continent in the world to convert them and tell them how humble
Christians are.
Oh, come on, the clock is running out.
OK, fourth clue: That tenet of faith has deluded the group into
building monuments to its own suffering all around the world on
government money, and requiring all other groups to express
guilt for that suffering.
I don't know why Christians like to portray themselves as suffering. They
have caused much more misery than they have endured, yet several Christian
countries erect monuments to Christian saints and martyrs, and declare
holidays in their honor.
Still wondering?
Too easy.
TCross
--Wax
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
17 Jan 2007 11:12:07 PM |
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Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Not quite. Most Jews are the victims of their parents
and their rabbis, who train them into crazy racism and
neurosis, thinking they are better than all other people,
and they are hated by all their inferiors.
Not quite.
With those words of introduction, one would expect a logical
rebuttal.
Most Christians are the victims of their parents and religious
teachers, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis,
thinking they are better than all other people, and they are
hated by everybody.
Instead, all we get is a change of subject. How quaint.
TCross
what the poster demonstrated is that your analysis is superficial
and can be applied to any group.
Only one identifiable group holds as an element of faith the tenet that
the group and its members are hated by all the rest of humanity. Do
you know what that group is?
That group is Christians.
I don't recall a quote from any present-day religious leaders state
that.
You are referring to Matthew 10:22, "And ye
shall be hated of all men for my name's sake." There are several other
passages to the same effect, such as Matthew 24:9, Luke 6:22, Luke 21:17,
John 15:18, 1 John 3:13.
That never became an article of Christian faith. You should support
your claim.
TCross
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| User: "Weatherwax" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
19 Jan 2007 01:33:54 PM |
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"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Not quite. Most Jews are the victims of their parents
and their rabbis, who train them into crazy racism and
neurosis, thinking they are better than all other people,
and they are hated by all their inferiors.
Not quite.
With those words of introduction, one would expect a logical
rebuttal.
Most Christians are the victims of their parents and religious
teachers, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis,
thinking they are better than all other people, and they are
hated by everybody.
Instead, all we get is a change of subject. How quaint.
TCross
what the poster demonstrated is that your analysis is superficial
and can be applied to any group.
Only one identifiable group holds as an element of faith the tenet that
the group and its members are hated by all the rest of humanity. Do
you know what that group is?
That group is Christians.
I don't recall a quote from any present-day religious leaders state
that.
Keep you ears open and you will hear it all the time.
You are referring to Matthew 10:22, "And ye
shall be hated of all men for my name's sake." There are several other
passages to the same effect, such as Matthew 24:9, Luke 6:22, Luke 21:17,
John 15:18, 1 John 3:13.
That never became an article of Christian faith. You should support
your claim.
It is from the Holy Bible, which some Christians call "the word of God." Do
you reject the word of God?
--Wax
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
21 Jan 2007 11:11:54 PM |
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Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Weatherwax wrote:
It is from the Holy Bible, which some Christians call "the word of God." Do
you reject the word of God?
she doesn't have any coherent basis for her ideas.
all her comments on the NT are superficial and eclectic --she has no
idea what is going on in the New Testament.
it's more likely her views are a mixture of second-hand interpretations
[as opposed to source studies of].
in the main she tends toward "theosophy", particularly that strain
which believes in dualism of soul/body [observe how she calls body and
blood a "shell" for something]
accompanied by a theory of "evolution" --not biological but "soul"
evolution.
in this cosmology the Jews are restraining humans from evolving into
the next "progressive" stage.
some theosophists imagine that , at an astrological "intersection",
"THE" Maitreya will come and "fix things".
in such a cosmology the Jews are first "overcome" and then "left
behind" --we know what that means
so that humans can finally be "detoxified".
cf. Alice Bailey i am describing an actual cosmological perspective as
alien as it might seem to you
or look into "Atlantean" cosmologies and notice the condition of
"Lemurians"
"New Age" applies to all sorts of ideologies.
Some are "multi-cult" some are "multi-cult" to the exclusion of some
cults.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
20 Jan 2007 01:22:23 AM |
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Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
Weatherwax wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote
Not quite. Most Jews are the victims of their parents
and their rabbis, who train them into crazy racism and
neurosis, thinking they are better than all other people,
and they are hated by all their inferiors.
Not quite.
With those words of introduction, one would expect a logical
rebuttal.
Most Christians are the victims of their parents and religious
teachers, who train them into crazy racism and neurosis,
thinking they are better than all other people, and they are
hated by everybody.
Instead, all we get is a change of subject. How quaint.
TCross
what the poster demonstrated is that your analysis is superficial
and can be applied to any group.
Only one identifiable group holds as an element of faith the tenet that
the group and its members are hated by all the rest of humanity. Do
you know what that group is?
That group is Christians.
I don't recall a quote from any present-day religious leaders state
that.
Keep you ears open and you will hear it all the time.
You are referring to Matthew 10:22, "And ye
shall be hated of all men for my name's sake." There are several other
passages to the same effect, such as Matthew 24:9, Luke 6:22, Luke 21:17,
John 15:18, 1 John 3:13.
That never became an article of Christian faith. You should support
your claim.
It is from the Holy Bible, which some Christians call "the word of God." Do
you reject the word of God?
We are not dicussing my religious views. The "Bible" is not the basis
for most Christianity for most people - thank God.
TCross
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| User: "Bible Believer" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
20 Jan 2007 08:54:25 AM |
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On 19 Jan 2007 23:22:23 -0800, "Terry Cross"
<tcross77@hotmail.com> claimed:
It is from the Holy Bible, which some Christians call
"the word of God." Do you reject the word of God?
We are not dicussing my religious views. The "Bible"
is not the basis for most Christianity for most people
- thank God.
Huh???
--
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
21 Jan 2007 02:32:32 AM |
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Bible Believer wrote:
On 19 Jan 2007 23:22:23 -0800, "Terry Cross"
<tcross77@hotmail.com> claimed:
It is from the Holy Bible, which some Christians call
"the word of God." Do you reject the word of God?
We are not dicussing my religious views. The "Bible"
is not the basis for most Christianity for most people
- thank God.
Huh???
yes, you observe correctly ; she claims the source for her "Jesus"
character is external to the New Testament.
yet in justifying her hatred for Jews she regularly cites several New
Testament passages.
she doesn't understand any greek or hebrew of course.
to better understand her views one might read the Carol Valentine
website.
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
21 Jan 2007 02:45:39 AM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
We are not dicussing my religious views
.
this is PRECISELY what is being discussed.
The "Bible" is not the basis
for most Christianity for most people - thank God.
TCross
you have numerous problems in your above statement, even aside from the
claim that Christianity is not based on "The Bible".
of course the name "Jesus" is now a composite for notions selectively
lifted from the texts,
but it remains that the [Jewish] texts are the source.
the NT has several characters and several layers, the most recent being
the neo-pythagorean and `notzrim` gnostic sect versions [of Judaism
incidentally] which are strikingly similar to the story of Appollonius
of Tyana.
nevertheless in using the name "Jesus" one is referencing the aramaic
`yeshua` ,
which is the primary story in the NT, that of a nationalist torah
observant yehudi.
the yeshua barabbas in Matthew 5:17-18 viewed his mission in the
context of torah and TaNaKh
as in
Luke 24:27
Luke 24:45
John 5:39
John 10:35
Luke 4:21
Mark 14:49
Mark 12:24
Matthew 26:56
what you have, or, rather, the character you SELECT from the texts is
the anti-semitic `iesous` character of John chapt 8, 14:6 and 17:17.
he is a neo-pythagorist.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
22 Jan 2007 12:55:55 AM |
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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
We are not dicussing my religious views
this is PRECISELY what is being discussed.
The "Bible" is not the basis
for Christianity for most people - thank God.
TCross
you have numerous problems in your above statement, even aside from the
claim that Christianity is not based on "The Bible".
It is simply not. The Mosaic code has been abandoned by Christianity.
The horror most people feel of "Fundamenalists" is occasioned by the
recent attempt by many Protestants to reinstate Mosaic Law.
The notion is a disaster.
of course the name "Jesus" is now a composite for notions selectively
lifted from the texts,
The name Jesus is obviously not Judaic.
but it remains that the [Jewish] texts are the source.
Though written in Greek. How strange.
the NT has several characters and several layers, the most recent being
the neo-pythagorean and `notzrim` gnostic sect versions [of Judaism
incidentally] which are strikingly similar to the story of Appollonius
of Tyana.
nevertheless in using the name "Jesus" one is referencing the aramaic
`yeshua` ,
which is the primary story in the NT, that of a nationalist torah
observant yehudi.
Satan can barely use English, so pretends to polyglotism to cover his
deficiency.
the yeshua barabbas in Matthew 5:17-18 viewed his mission in the
context of torah and TaNaKh
as in
Luke 24:27
Luke 24:45
John 5:39
John 10:35
Luke 4:21
Mark 14:49
Mark 12:24
Matthew 26:56
If the New Testament is a composit, any literal approach to the New
Testament must be abandoned.
So abandon it.
what you have, or, rather, the character you SELECT from the texts is
the anti-semitic `iesous` character of John chapt 8, 14:6 and 17:17.
he is a neo-pythagorist.
Jesus rejected Moses and his priests in many more passages, as a Jewish
religious leader never would. You cannot have it both ways.
TCross
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
24 Jan 2007 10:13:37 PM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
If
syllogism follows:
the New Testament is a composit, any literal approach to the New
Testament must be abandoned.
'literal' is inaccurate and in the first place NOT a valid method to
approach any text ; `pshat` or "plain intended meaning" would be the
only accurate methodology, and such relies on context, and includes
metaphor, poetry, idioms, simile, etc.
as for "composite" that is false ; the "Jesus" of 3rd century CE
mediterranean is indeed a "composite" or an IDEOGRAM ; the "New
Testament" jesus / `iesou` / `yeshua ` is not, as the NT is an amalgam
of sections of texts superimposed on a translated aramaic text.
So abandon it.
yes you should ; and as you "abandon" it you automatically abandon any
basis for this anti-judaic "Jesus" character you have re-invented.
what you have, or, rather, the character you SELECT from the texts is
the anti-semitic `iesous` character of John chapt 8, 14:6 and 17:17.
he is a neo-pythagorist.
Jesus rejected Moses and his priests in many more passages, as a Jewish
religious leader never would. You cannot have it both ways.
Luke 24:27 "24:27 Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he
interpreted to them the things about himself in all the scriptures [the
TaNaKh]"
Matthew Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do
...."
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| User: "Jonathan Schattke" |
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| Title: Re: The Anti-Jewish New Testament (revised) |
20 Jan 2007 02:22:43 PM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
We are not dicussing my religious views. The "Bible" is not the basis
for most Christianity for most people - thank God.
Indeed, it is the Pope. Good to know your root of belief, Terry. You
prove what you love, and it's not the eternal Yehvah.
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