| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"IknowHimDoYou" |
| Date: |
22 Jul 2003 10:40:53 AM |
| Object: |
The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4 |
The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4
(this is not for the atheistic evolutionist)
No. 4 God becomes a god of the gaps
The Bible states that God is the Prime Cause of all things: "Yet for us
there is but one God, from whom all things come and for whom we live; and
there is but one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and
through whom we live"(ICor 8:6). Whether or not we understand the
scientific details of creation around us from the viewpoint of physics,
chemistry, biology, astonomy, physiology, or information science, all
phenomena are His handiwork and embody His ideas(Col 2:3).
Evolution is regarded as "fact" by the theistic evolutionist, however, the
evolutionary factors, mutation, selection and isolation are unable to pass
across the boundries separating various kinds: "Nobody, even if he has
many mllions of years(even billions) at his disposal, can run peas and
lentils through a screen and obtain beans". Knowing that this is
absolutely true the theistic evolutionist reaches the point where God is
"switched on" for cover.
The atheistic fomula for evolution is:
Evolution-matter+evolutionary factors(chance and necessity +mutation +
selection+ isolation+death) + very long time periods
Inhe theistic evolution view, God is added:
Theistic Evolution-matter+evolutionary factors(chance and necessity
+mutation + selection+ isolation+death) + very long time periods + God
In either of the two systems God is not the omnipotent Lord of all things
whose Word has to be taken seriously by all men, but He is integrated into
the theistic evolutionary philosophy for convienence(wolf hiding in
sheep's clothing so to speak). The only workspace allotted to Him is that
part which evolution cannot explain with the means at its disposal(and
these are myriad). Therefore He becomes the "God of the gaps" and He
becomes non-absolute and a figment of the dreamer's imagination only.
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| User: "Lane Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4 |
22 Jul 2003 11:47:53 PM |
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"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2207030840530001@pm10-21.kalama.com...
snip
Evolution is regarded as "fact" by the theistic evolutionist, however, the
evolutionary factors, mutation, selection and isolation are unable to pass
across the boundries separating various kinds: "Nobody, even if he has
many mllions of years(even billions) at his disposal, can run peas and
lentils through a screen and obtain beans". Knowing that this is
absolutely true the theistic evolutionist reaches the point where God is
"switched on" for cover.
But we can change wolves into chihuahuas and it didn't even take close
to a million years. Seems you have a problem.
Lane
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| User: "IknowHimDoYou" |
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| Title: Re: The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4 |
23 Jul 2003 10:20:35 AM |
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In article <ZroTa.53075$k85.1918691@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "Lane Lewis"
<lanejlewis@hotmail.com> wrote:
"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2207030840530001@pm10-21.kalama.com...
snip
Evolution is regarded as "fact" by the theistic evolutionist, however, the
evolutionary factors, mutation, selection and isolation are unable to pass
across the boundries separating various kinds: "Nobody, even if he has
many mllions of years(even billions) at his disposal, can run peas and
lentils through a screen and obtain beans". Knowing that this is
absolutely true the theistic evolutionist reaches the point where God is
"switched on" for cover.
But we can change wolves into chihuahuas and it didn't even take close
to a million years. Seems you have a problem.
Lane
________________________________________
Still a dog isn't it?
Lets see you change a horse into a chicken. Then you can crow...
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| User: "Lane Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4 |
23 Jul 2003 01:48:57 PM |
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"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2307030820350001@pm1-43.kalama.com...
In article <ZroTa.53075$k85.1918691@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "Lane Lewis"
<lanejlewis@hotmail.com> wrote:
"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2207030840530001@pm10-21.kalama.com...
snip
Evolution is regarded as "fact" by the theistic evolutionist, however,
the
evolutionary factors, mutation, selection and isolation are unable to
pass
across the boundries separating various kinds: "Nobody, even if he has
many mllions of years(even billions) at his disposal, can run peas and
lentils through a screen and obtain beans". Knowing that this is
absolutely true the theistic evolutionist reaches the point where God
is
"switched on" for cover.
But we can change wolves into chihuahuas and it didn't even take
close
to a million years. Seems you have a problem.
Lane
________________________________________
Still a dog isn't it?
Lets see you change a horse into a chicken. Then you can crow...
I can crow anyway
They are both animals, chordates, mammals, carnivorous, canine, but contrary
to the Chihuahua being once a wolf, the wolf is not a dog nor has it ever
been. Just ask any breeder. Your still a dog rings hollow with out any
substance.
Lane
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4 |
24 Jul 2003 04:33:41 AM |
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(IknowHimDoYou) wrote in
news:IknowHim-2307030820350001@pm1-43.kalama.com:
In article <ZroTa.53075$k85.1918691@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "Lane
Lewis" <lanejlewis@hotmail.com> wrote:
"IknowHimDoYou" < > wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2207030840530001@pm10-21.kalama.com...
snip
Evolution is regarded as "fact" by the theistic evolutionist,
however, the evolutionary factors, mutation, selection and
isolation are unable to pass across the boundries separating
various kinds: "Nobody, even if he has many mllions of years(even
billions) at his disposal, can run peas and lentils through a
screen and obtain beans". Knowing that this is absolutely true the
theistic evolutionist reaches the point where God is "switched on"
for cover.
But we can change wolves into chihuahuas and it didn't even take
close
to a million years. Seems you have a problem.
Lane
________________________________________
Still a dog isn't it?
Lets see you change a horse into a chicken. Then you can crow...
You are still an ape, aren't you?
Don't answer...you're probably just a robot!
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4 |
24 Jul 2003 07:58:47 AM |
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In alt.talk.creationism, Dave Oldridge
<doldridgLEAVETHISOUT@hfx.eastlink.ca> wrote in
<Xns93C242C076D86doldridgsprintca@142.77.1.194>:
IknowHim@leavingsoon.com (IknowHimDoYou) wrote in
news:IknowHim-2307030820350001@pm1-43.kalama.com:
In article <ZroTa.53075$k85.1918691@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "Lane
Lewis" <lanejlewis@hotmail.com> wrote:
"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2207030840530001@pm10-21.kalama.com...
snip
Evolution is regarded as "fact" by the theistic evolutionist,
however, the evolutionary factors, mutation, selection and
isolation are unable to pass across the boundries separating
various kinds: "Nobody, even if he has many mllions of years(even
billions) at his disposal, can run peas and lentils through a
screen and obtain beans". Knowing that this is absolutely true the
theistic evolutionist reaches the point where God is "switched on"
for cover.
But we can change wolves into chihuahuas and it didn't even take
close
to a million years. Seems you have a problem.
Lane
________________________________________
Still a dog isn't it?
Lets see you change a horse into a chicken. Then you can crow...
You are still an ape, aren't you?
Don't answer...you're probably just a robot!
But not nearly as entertaining as Tom Servo.
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| User: "Adam Marczyk" |
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| Title: Re: The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4 |
23 Jul 2003 06:57:32 PM |
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IknowHimDoYou <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2307030820350001@pm1-43.kalama.com...
In article <ZroTa.53075$k85.1918691@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "Lane
Lewis" <lanejlewis@hotmail.com> wrote:
"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2207030840530001@pm10-21.kalama.com...
snip
Evolution is regarded as "fact" by the theistic evolutionist, however,
the evolutionary factors, mutation, selection and isolation are unable
to pass across the boundries separating various kinds: "Nobody, even
if he has many mllions of years(even billions) at his disposal, can
run peas and lentils through a screen and obtain beans". Knowing that
this is absolutely true the theistic evolutionist reaches the point
where God is "switched on" for cover.
But we can change wolves into chihuahuas and it didn't even take
close to a million years. Seems you have a problem.
Still a dog isn't it?
Yup. And humans are still just primates.
Lets see you change a horse into a chicken. Then you can crow...
Evolution does not predict that a horse should be able to change into a
chicken. Your critiques are based simply on misunderstanding.
--
"We have loved the stars too fondly | a.a. #2001
to be fearful of the night." | http://www.ebonmusings.org
--Tombstone epitaph of | e-mail: ebonmuse!hotmail.com
two amateur astronomers, | ICQ: 8777843
quoted in Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_ | PGP Key ID: 0x5C66F737
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4 |
22 Jul 2003 04:07:31 PM |
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(IknowHimDoYou) wrote in
news:IknowHim-2207030840530001@pm10-21.kalama.com:
The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4
(this is not for the atheistic evolutionist)
No. 4 God becomes a god of the gaps
No, that is a consequence of IDism.
The Bible states that God is the Prime Cause of all things: "Yet for
us there is but one God, from whom all things come and for whom we
live; and there is but one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom all things
came and through whom we live"(ICor 8:6). Whether or not we understand
the scientific details of creation around us from the viewpoint of
physics, chemistry, biology, astonomy, physiology, or information
science, all phenomena are His handiwork and embody His ideas(Col
2:3).
Yep. This much is true.
Evolution is regarded as "fact" by the theistic evolutionist, however,
the evolutionary factors, mutation, selection and isolation are unable
to pass across the boundries separating various kinds: "Nobody, even
if he has many mllions of years(even billions) at his disposal, can
run peas and lentils through a screen and obtain beans". Knowing that
this is absolutely true the theistic evolutionist reaches the point
where God is "switched on" for cover.
1. No creationist has ever satisfactorily defined "kind" so that we can
actually use the term. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the word
(miyn) in the original Hebrew meant much the same as what we mean by
species. But due to the superstitious way in which YEC apologists
interpret scripture, it has taken on some sort of absolutist meaning that
they cannot (and will never) actually provide. They don't even know it
themselves. It is a YEC "mystery."
2. There is no demonstrated barrier to continued genetic divergence.
The straw man argument that you cannot get cats from dogs and vice versa
is just that. Nobody anywhere claims that it happened. Therefore, when
YEC apologists claim that scientists have made such claims, they are
LYING.
The atheistic fomula for evolution is:
Evolution-matter+evolutionary factors(chance and necessity +mutation +
selection+ isolation+death) + very long time periods
Inhe theistic evolution view, God is added:
Theistic Evolution-matter+evolutionary factors(chance and necessity
+mutation + selection+ isolation+death) + very long time periods + God
In either of the two systems God is not the omnipotent Lord of all
things whose Word has to be taken seriously by all men, but He is
integrated into the theistic evolutionary philosophy for
convienence(wolf hiding in sheep's clothing so to speak). The only
Speak for yourself about why YOU believe (or don't believe) in God. But
please do not take it upon yourself to speak for me. You will only
embarass yourself by lying in God's name again.
1. It is my belief that there is no part of the physical universe that
is exempt from God's sovereignty. I have never suggested otherwise.
2. Science cannot rule on things that God has done unless God does them
in a manner that is directly visible to the scientific method. Only
rarely does He do that and we call that kind of thing a special miracle.
3. As for wolves hiding in sheeps' clothing, I'll put my money on it
referring to so-called ministers who stand in pulpits and urge lies upon
their congregations, all the while preening themselves in their three
piece suits and telling everone how "holy" they are.
workspace allotted to Him is that part which evolution cannot explain
with the means at its disposal(and these are myriad). Therefore He
becomes the "God of the gaps" and He becomes non-absolute and a
figment of the dreamer's imagination only.
Wrong. The workspace allotted to Him is the whole enchilada. You have
completely misunderstood the theistic evolutionist's understanding here
and have, in fact substituted a kind of deist version as a straw man.
--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667
Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
.
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| User: "Adam Marczyk" |
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| Title: Re: The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4 |
22 Jul 2003 12:23:10 PM |
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IknowHimDoYou <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2207030840530001@pm10-21.kalama.com...
The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4
(this is not for the atheistic evolutionist)
No. 4 God becomes a god of the gaps
[...]
Now *this* is the most ludicrously ironic claim of all. It is the theistic
evolutionists who see God's hand at work everywhere in nature at all times.
It is the *creationists* who make God into a god of the gaps by insisting
that his work is *different* from the normal processes of nature, and by
asserting that God's work can be seen where science does not have all the
answers (your recent hit-and-run posts on abiogenesis are an excellent
example of this). Of course, the problem with such a god is that he shrinks
as the gaps do.
More on this can be seen here:
http://talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/jun03.html#hon2
http://talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/mar03.html#hon2
--
"We have loved the stars too fondly | a.a. #2001
to be fearful of the night." | http://www.ebonmusings.org
--Tombstone epitaph of | e-mail: ebonmuse!hotmail.com
two amateur astronomers, | ICQ: 8777843
quoted in Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_ | PGP Key ID: 0x5C66F737
----------------------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4 |
22 Jul 2003 10:54:05 AM |
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In alt.talk.creationism, (IknowHimDoYou) copied
the following from some web site that he didn't bother to give credit
to:
The Consequences of Theistic Evolution 4
(this is not for the atheistic evolutionist)
No. 4 God becomes a god of the gaps
The Bible states that God is the Prime Cause of all things: "Yet for us
there is but one God, from whom all things come and for whom we live; and
there is but one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and
through whom we live"(ICor 8:6). Whether or not we understand the
scientific details of creation around us from the viewpoint of physics,
chemistry, biology, astonomy, physiology, or information science, all
phenomena are His handiwork and embody His ideas(Col 2:3).
Which is consistent with theistic evolution.
Evolution is regarded as "fact" by the theistic evolutionist, however, the
evolutionary factors, mutation, selection and isolation are unable to pass
across the boundries separating various kinds: "Nobody, even if he has
many mllions of years(even billions) at his disposal, can run peas and
lentils through a screen and obtain beans".
That is nonsense told by someone who does not understand or care to
understand what God's Creation looks like. It is a lie of proud
ignorance.
Knowing that this is
absolutely true the theistic evolutionist reaches the point where God is
"switched on" for cover.
False.
The atheistic fomula for evolution is:
Evolution-matter+evolutionary factors(chance and necessity +mutation +
selection+ isolation+death) + very long time periods
Inhe theistic evolution view, God is added:
Theistic Evolution-matter+evolutionary factors(chance and necessity
+mutation + selection+ isolation+death) + very long time periods + God
In either of the two systems God is not the omnipotent Lord of all things
whose Word has to be taken seriously by all men, but He is integrated into
the theistic evolutionary philosophy for convienence(wolf hiding in
sheep's clothing so to speak). The only workspace allotted to Him is that
part which evolution cannot explain with the means at its disposal(and
these are myriad). Therefore He becomes the "God of the gaps" and He
becomes non-absolute and a figment of the dreamer's imagination only.
Whereas Young Earth Creationists merely reject evidence, lie about
history, and keep God locked into what they can understand. The God of a
YEC is a very small and powerless god who cannot do any more than the
YEC can imagine.
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