The Controller



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Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "Andrew W \Paranormal Agnostic"
Date: 06 Dec 2004 01:30:37 AM
Object: The Controller
Religious believers are taught that God is ultimately in control of
everything and will eventually make sure that everything turns out well.
They believe that God must rule everyone with an iron fist and that nothing
can function on it's own without him manipulating everything every step of
the way.
Religious believers obviously don't believe that God is smart enough to
design systems that can function on their own like eco systems and they
don't believe that he can create creatures that can become part of the
process of life and look after themselves.
According to Christianity, humans are like fleas on the back of a dog; more
of a nuisance than anything - a bunch of cosmic refugees.
His creatures have to be constantly cared for and told what to do and how to
behave, and at the end they even have to be saved from destroying
themselves.
Why can't an omnipotent super intelligent god create creatures that are more
capable and competent?
Humans are on the verge of creating robots that can think for themselves and
yet the god of the bible still can't create a single human that can think
for himself.
What's wrong with him?
Either the Christian god is stuck in a time loop or he's a megalomaniac who
can't handle seeing others run their own lives.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.

User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: The Controller 06 Dec 2004 05:36:39 AM
Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic) wrote:


Religious believers are taught that God is ultimately in control of
everything and will eventually make sure that everything turns out
well.

They believe that God must rule everyone with an iron fist and that
nothing can function on it's own without him manipulating everything
every step of the way.

Religious believers obviously don't believe that God is smart enough
to design systems that can function on their own like eco systems and
they don't believe that he can create creatures that can become part
of the process of life and look after themselves.

According to Christianity, humans are like fleas on the back of a dog;
more of a nuisance than anything - a bunch of cosmic refugees.

His creatures have to be constantly cared for and told what to do and
how to behave, and at the end they even have to be saved from
destroying themselves.

Why can't an omnipotent super intelligent god create creatures that
are more capable and competent?

Humans are on the verge of creating robots that can think for
themselves and yet the god of the bible still can't create a single
human that can think for himself.

What's wrong with him?

Either the Christian god is stuck in a time loop or he's a
megalomaniac who can't handle seeing others run their own lives.

I think the problem here lies in how you are defining 'Christianity'.
If, for the sake of argument, we accept the contents of the Bible as
'true' in terms of the events they describe and the meaning they ascribe
to them, then it becomes clear that God's last contact with His creation
was through Jesus, two thousand years ago.
If we accept the New Testament - specifically the Gospels - as the most
important part of the Bible for Christians, as I suspect it probably
should be, then we have a God who sent an avatar to Earth to give a
message to His creation, and who has then left us to our own devices for
two millennia. He has left us our record of Jesus' ministry as
reference, and since then has not interfered at all. This is not the
behaviour of a 'control freak' god.
However, it IS a fact that we are constantly being instructed - cajoled
and threatened - as to how to behave, and that such instruction is given
in the name of Christianity. To a lesser extent now than in past
centuries, true, but the catalogue of demands goes on. We see
'Christianity' represented by the religious right - those who expect us
to comply with their stipulations as to how we must live our lives. We
are bombarded with condemnation and direction in the name of Jesus. We
are judged from day to day according to the supposed standards of the
God of the New Testament. But where does this judgement truly come
from? Who issues these instructions?
They come from us. From humankind - not from God. They come from those
who have adopted the Bible and who exploit it as a weapon. Those who
consider it a political tool - a way to gain influence or, as you say,
to control others. It began early. When Paul decided to cash in on the
life of Jesus and began issuing decrees in his letters, supposedly based
on his 'revelation' on the road to Damascus. When 'St' John wrote his
'Apocalypse', that reworks Jesus/God and portrays Him as a malevolent,
vindictive entity that will destroy our world and consign His own
creation to eternal torment.
What God actually expects of each of us is, ultimately, left to the
individual to decide, through their own conscience. Those preachers and
churches who invoke hellfire and damnation on those who do not comply
with their instructions or their code of conduct speak not for God, but
for themselves. They demand obedience to their own will, not to God's.
Surely God is perfectly capable of contacting each of us directly if He
wishes to do so - though He might well leave it to us to decide whether
or not to listen. The fact that I am able to choose not to offer
allegiance to this God, and so far without coercion, must demonstrate
that He is not a controller - and must surely invalidate the means
employed by some of those who claim to act in His name to gather
followers. If God does not force us, what human can claim that right?
--
Midjis
.
User: "DW Suiter"

Title: Re: The Controller 06 Dec 2004 06:58:30 AM
The true and real God honored by Jesus of Nazareth is far from a controller.
And God does not intervene in the affairs of mankind against the will of
mankind.
God does not control the acts or actions of mankind regardless of what
mankind does. Each person controls his/her own acts by their free will to do
so and their acts are dependent on what the mind knows and believes.
God does fulfill a promise to those who come to learn how to live life
according to the true principles of God. The basic principle on which all
principles of God are built on is the principle of love. Even so, this love
is not as mankind understands. It is a principle, not an emotion. It is
obeyed regardless of how a person "feels."
The will of God is to give for the betterment of mankind, what mankind
needs. This does not include physical matter or physical material. Mankind
was given a pristine physical planet called earth which if respected,
provides for all of mankind's physical needs. Because of mankind's belief in
inequity, the distribution of physical matter such as food is lopsided.
What mankind needs is a better mind created by better principles that are
known, understood, and willingly obeyed. Only in this way will the life man
knows become better.
Religion, not being of God, is a man made replacement for God.
DW Suiter
Son of God
"Midjis" < @ . > wrote in message
news:Xns95B7762512F02ZRHGRGGNVWLDRAVKW@217.32.252.50...

Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic) wrote:


Religious believers are taught that God is ultimately in control of
everything and will eventually make sure that everything turns out
well.

They believe that God must rule everyone with an iron fist and that
nothing can function on it's own without him manipulating everything
every step of the way.

Religious believers obviously don't believe that God is smart enough
to design systems that can function on their own like eco systems and
they don't believe that he can create creatures that can become part
of the process of life and look after themselves.

According to Christianity, humans are like fleas on the back of a dog;
more of a nuisance than anything - a bunch of cosmic refugees.

His creatures have to be constantly cared for and told what to do and
how to behave, and at the end they even have to be saved from
destroying themselves.

Why can't an omnipotent super intelligent god create creatures that
are more capable and competent?

Humans are on the verge of creating robots that can think for
themselves and yet the god of the bible still can't create a single
human that can think for himself.

What's wrong with him?

Either the Christian god is stuck in a time loop or he's a
megalomaniac who can't handle seeing others run their own lives.



I think the problem here lies in how you are defining 'Christianity'.
If, for the sake of argument, we accept the contents of the Bible as
'true' in terms of the events they describe and the meaning they ascribe
to them, then it becomes clear that God's last contact with His creation
was through Jesus, two thousand years ago.

If we accept the New Testament - specifically the Gospels - as the most
important part of the Bible for Christians, as I suspect it probably
should be, then we have a God who sent an avatar to Earth to give a
message to His creation, and who has then left us to our own devices for
two millennia. He has left us our record of Jesus' ministry as
reference, and since then has not interfered at all. This is not the
behaviour of a 'control freak' god.

However, it IS a fact that we are constantly being instructed - cajoled
and threatened - as to how to behave, and that such instruction is given
in the name of Christianity. To a lesser extent now than in past
centuries, true, but the catalogue of demands goes on. We see
'Christianity' represented by the religious right - those who expect us
to comply with their stipulations as to how we must live our lives. We
are bombarded with condemnation and direction in the name of Jesus. We
are judged from day to day according to the supposed standards of the
God of the New Testament. But where does this judgement truly come
from? Who issues these instructions?

They come from us. From humankind - not from God. They come from those
who have adopted the Bible and who exploit it as a weapon. Those who
consider it a political tool - a way to gain influence or, as you say,
to control others. It began early. When Paul decided to cash in on the
life of Jesus and began issuing decrees in his letters, supposedly based
on his 'revelation' on the road to Damascus. When 'St' John wrote his
'Apocalypse', that reworks Jesus/God and portrays Him as a malevolent,
vindictive entity that will destroy our world and consign His own
creation to eternal torment.

What God actually expects of each of us is, ultimately, left to the
individual to decide, through their own conscience. Those preachers and
churches who invoke hellfire and damnation on those who do not comply
with their instructions or their code of conduct speak not for God, but
for themselves. They demand obedience to their own will, not to God's.
Surely God is perfectly capable of contacting each of us directly if He
wishes to do so - though He might well leave it to us to decide whether
or not to listen. The fact that I am able to choose not to offer
allegiance to this God, and so far without coercion, must demonstrate
that He is not a controller - and must surely invalidate the means
employed by some of those who claim to act in His name to gather
followers. If God does not force us, what human can claim that right?

--
Midjis

.


User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic"

Title: Re: The Controller 05 Jan 2005 09:57:47 AM
You seem to be doing a pretty good job of thinking for yourself, which kinda
destroys a goodly chunk of what you seem to be trying to say...
"Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote
in message news:41b40a9a$0$20379$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...


Religious believers are taught that God is ultimately in control of
everything and will eventually make sure that everything turns out well.

They believe that God must rule everyone with an iron fist and that
nothing can function on it's own without him manipulating everything every
step of the way.

Religious believers obviously don't believe that God is smart enough to
design systems that can function on their own like eco systems and they
don't believe that he can create creatures that can become part of the
process of life and look after themselves.

According to Christianity, humans are like fleas on the back of a dog;
more of a nuisance than anything - a bunch of cosmic refugees.

His creatures have to be constantly cared for and told what to do and how
to behave, and at the end they even have to be saved from destroying
themselves.

Why can't an omnipotent super intelligent god create creatures that are
more capable and competent?

Humans are on the verge of creating robots that can think for themselves
and yet the god of the bible still can't create a single human that can
think for himself.

What's wrong with him?

Either the Christian god is stuck in a time loop or he's a megalomaniac
who can't handle seeing others run their own lives.


--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).


"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)

Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner

.


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