| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Carl" |
| Date: |
30 May 2007 08:11:08 PM |
| Object: |
The Cure Of Evil-speaking |
The following is the text of a sermon from John Wesley centered on the
Biblical passage to speak evil of no man. Recently there have been some
posting on usenet by individuals who have intentionally made it very
difficult to respond with kindness and gentleness so I have been reading
related scripture for guidance and this sermon by John Wesley addresses it
quite well. I hope it helps you as well.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
The Cure of Evil-speaking
by John Wesley
(text from the 1872 edition)
"If thy brother shall sin against thee, go and tell him his fault between
thee
and him alone: If he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if
he
will not hear, take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or
three
witnesses every word may be established. And if he will not hear them, tell
it
to the Church. But if he does not hear the church, let him be to thee as an
heathen man and a publican." Matt. 18:15-17
1. "Speak evil of no man," says the great Apostle: -- As plain a command as,
"Thou shalt do no murder." But who, even among Christians, regards this
command?
Yea, how few are there that so much as understand it? What is evil-speaking?
It is not, as some suppose, the same with lying or slandering. All a man
says may
be as true as the Bible; and yet the saying of it is evil-speaking. For
evil-speaking is neither more nor less than speaking evil of an absent
person; relating something evil, which was really done or said by one that
is not present when it is related. Suppose, having seen a man drunk, or
heard him curse or swear, I tell this when he is absent; it is
evil-speaking. In our language this is also, by an extremely proper name,
termed backbiting. Nor is there any material difference between this and
what we usually style tale-bearing. If the tale be delivered in a soft and
quiet manner (perhaps with expressions of good-will to the person, and of
hope that things may not be quite so bad,) then we call it whispering. But
in whatever manner it be done, the thing is the same; -- the same in
substance, if not in circumstance. Still it is evil-speaking; still this
command, "Speak evil of no man," is trampled under foot; if we relate to
another the fault of a third person, when he is not present to answer for
himself.
2. And how extremely common is this sin, among all orders and degrees of
men! How do high and low, rich and poor, wise and foolish, learned and
unlearned, run
into it continually! Persons who differ from each other in all things else,
nevertheless agree in this. How few are there that can testify before God,
"I am clear in this matter; I have always set a watch before my mouth, and
kept the door of my lips!" What conversation do you hear, of any
considerable length, whereof evil-speaking is not one ingredient? and that
even among persons who, in the general, have the fear of God before their
eyes, and do really desire to have a conscience void of offence toward God
and toward man.
3. And the very commonness of this sin makes it difficult to be avoided. As
we are encompassed with it on every side, so, if we are not deeply sensible
of the
danger, and continually guarding against it, we are liable to be carried
away by the torrent. In this instance, almost the whole of mankind is, as it
were, in a
conspiracy against us. And their example steals upon us, we know not how; so
that we insensibly slide into the imitation of it. Besides, it is
recommended from within as well as from without. There is scarce any wrong
temper in the mind of man, which may not be occasionally gratified by it,
and consequently incline us to it. It gratifies our pride, to relate those
faults of others whereof we think ourselves not to be guilty. Anger,
resentment, and all unkind tempers, are indulged by speaking against those
with whom we are displeased; and, in many cases, by reciting the sins of
their neighbors, men indulge their own foolish and hurtful desires.
4. Evil-speaking is the more difficult to be avoided, because it frequently
attacks us in disguise. We speak thus out of a noble, generous (it is well
if we do not say,) holy indignation, against these vile creatures! We commit
sin from mere hatred of sin! We serve the devil out of pure zeal for God! It
is merely in order to punish the wicked that we run into this wickedness.
"So do the passions" (as one speaks) "all justify themselves," and palm sin
upon us under the veil of holiness!
5. But is there no way to avoid the snare? Unquestionably there is. Our
blessed Lord has marked out a plain way for His followers, in the words
above recited.
None, who warily and steadily walk in this path, will ever fall into
evil-speaking. This rule is either an infallible preventive, or a certain
cure of it. In the preceding verses, our Lord had said, "Woe to the world,
because of offences," -- unspeakable misery will arise in the world from
this baleful fountain: (Offences are all things whereby anyone is turned out
of, or hindered in, the ways of God.): "For it must be that offenses
come," -- Such is the nature of things; such the wickedness, folly, and
weakness of mankind: "But woe to that man," -- miserable is that man, "by
whom the offense cometh." "Wherefore if thy hand, thy foot, thine eye, cause
thee to offend," -- if the most dear enjoyment, the most beloved and useful
person, turn thee out of or hinder thee in the way, "pluck it out," -- cut
them off, and cast them from thee. But how can we avoid giving offense to
some, and being offended at others? Especially, suppose they are quite in
the wrong, and we see it with our own eyes? Our Lord here teaches us how: He
lays down a sure method of avoiding offenses and evil-speaking together. "If
thy brother shall sin against thee, go and tell him of his fault, between
thee and him alone: If he will hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But
if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more, that by the mouth
of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he will not
hear them, tell it to the church: But if he will not hear the Church,
let him be to thee as an heathen man and a publican."
I. 1. First, "If thy brother shall sin against thee, go and tell him of his
fault, between thee and him alone." The most literal way of following this
first rule, where it is practicable, is the best: Therefore, if thou seest
with thine own eyes a brother, a fellow Christian, commit undeniable sin, or
hearest it with thine own ears, so that it is impossible for thee to doubt
the fact, then thy part is plain: Take the very first opportunity of going
to him; and, if thou canst have access, "tell him of his fault between thee
and him alone." Indeed, great care is to be taken that this is done in a
right spirit, and in a right manner. The success of a reproof greatly
depends on the spirit wherein it is given. Be not, therefore, wanting in
earnest prayer to God, that it may be given in a lowly spirit; with a deep,
piercing conviction, that it is God alone who maketh thee to differ; and
that if any good be done by what is now spoken, God doeth it himself. Pray
that he would guard thy heart, enlighten thy mind, and direct thy tongue to
such words as he may please to bless. See that thou speak in a meek as well
as a lowly spirit; for the wrath of man worketh not the
righteousness of God." If he be "overtaken in a fault," he can no otherwise
be restored, than "in the spirit of meekness." If he opposes the truth, yet
he cannot be brought to the knowledge thereof, but by gentleness. Still
speak in a spirit of tender love, "which many waters cannot quench." If love
is not conquered, it conquers all things. Who can tell the force of love?
Love can bow down the stubborn neck,
The stone to flesh convert;
Soften, and melt, and pierce and break
An adamantine heart.
Confirm, then, your love toward him, and you will thereby "heap coals of
fire upon his head."
2. But see that the manner also wherein you speak be according to the Gospel
of Christ. Avoid everything in look, gesture, word, and tone of voice, that
savors
of pride or self-sufficiency. Studiously avoid everything magisterial or
dogmatical, everything that looks like arrogance or assuming. Beware of the
most distant approach to disdain, overbearing, or contempt. With equal care
avoid all appearance of anger; and though you use great plainness of speech,
yet let there be no reproach, no railing accusation, no token of any warmth
but that of love. Above all, let there be no shadow of hate or ill-will, no
bitterness or sourness of expression; but use the air and language of
sweetness, as well as gentleness, that all may appear to flow from love in
the heart. And yet this sweetness need not hinder your speaking in the most
serious and solemn manner; as far as may be, in the very words of the
oracles of God (for there are none like them,) and as under the eye of Him
who is coming to judge the quick and dead.
3. If you have not an opportunity of speaking to him in person, or cannot
have access, you may do it by a messenger; by a common friend, in whose
prudence, as
well as uprightness, you can thoroughly confide. Such a person, speaking in
your name, and in the spirit and manner above described, may answer the same
end,
and, in a good degree, supply your lack of service. Only beware you do not
feign the want of opportunity, in order to shun the cross; neither take it
for granted
that you cannot have access, without ever making the trial. Whenever you can
speak in your own person, it is far better. But you should rather do it by
another, than not at all: This way is better than none.
4. But what, if you can neither speak yourself, nor find such a messenger as
you can confide in? If this is really the case, it then only remains to
write. And there may be some circumstances which make this the most
advisable way of speaking. One of these circumstances is, when the person
with whom we have to do is of so warm and impetuous a temper as does not
easily bear reproof, especially from an equal or inferior. But it may be so
introduced and softened in writing as to make it far more tolerable.
Besides, many will read the very same words, which they could not bear to
hear. It does not give so violent a shock to their pride, nor so sensibly
touch their honor. And suppose it makes little impression at first, they
will, perhaps, give it a second reading, and, upon farther consideration,
lay to heart what before they disregarded. If you add your name, this is
nearly the same thing as going to him, and speaking in person. And this
should always be done, unless it be rendered improper by some very
particular reason.
5. It should be well observed, not only that this is a step which our Lord
absolutely commands us to take, but that he commands us to take this step
first, before we attempt any other. No alternative is allowed, no choice of
anything else: This is the way; walk thou in it. It is true, he enjoins us,
if need require, to take two other steps; but they are to be taken
successively after this step, and neither of them before it: Much less are
we to take any other step, either before or beside this. To do anything
else, or not to do this, is, therefore, equally inexcusable.
6. Do not think to excuse yourself for taking an entirely different step, by
saying, "Why, I did not speak to anyone, till I was so burdened that I could
not refrain." You was burdened! It was no wonder you should, unless your
conscience was seared; for you was under the guilt of sin, of disobeying a
plain commandment of God! You ought immediately to have gone, and told "your
brother of his fault between you and him alone." If you did not, how should
you be other than burdened (unless your heart was utterly hardened,) while
you was trampling the command of God under foot, and "hating your brother in
your heart?" And what a way have you found to unburden yourself? God
reproves you for a sin of omission, for not telling your brother of his
fault; and you comfort yourself under His reproof by a sin of commission, by
telling your brother's fault to another person! Ease bought by sin is a dear
purchase! I trust in God, you will have no ease, but will be burdened so
much the more, till you "go to your brother and tell him," and no one else.
7. I know but of one exception to this rule: There may be a peculiar case,
wherein it is necessary to accuse the guilty, though absent, in order to
preserve the innocent. For instance: You are acquainted with the design
which a man has against the property or life of his neighbor. Now, the case
may be so circumstanced, that there is no other way of hindering that design
from taking effect, but the making it known, without delay, to him against
whom it is laid. In this case, therefore, this rule is set aside, as is that
of the Apostle, "Speak evil of no man:" and it is lawful, yea, it is our
bounden duty, to speak evil of an absent person, in order to prevent his
doing evil to others and himself at the same time. But remember, meanwhile
that all evil-speaking is, in its own nature, deadly poison. Therefore if
you are sometimes constrained to use it as a medicine, yet use it with fear
and trembling; seeing it is so dangerous a medicine, that nothing but
absolute necessity can excuse your using it at all. Accordingly, use it as
seldom as possible; never but when there is such a necessity: And even then
use as little of it as is possible; only so much as is necessary for the end
proposed. At all other times, "go and tell him of his fault between thee and
him alone."
II. 1. But what, "if he will not hear?" If he repay evil for good? If he be
enraged rather than convinced? What, if he hear to no purpose, and go on
still in the evil of his way? We must expect this will frequently be the
case; the mildest and tenderest reproof will have no effect; but the
blessing we wished for another will return into our own bosom. And what are
we to do then? Our Lord has given us a clear and full direction. Then "take
with thee one or two more:" This is the second step. Take one or two whom
you know to be of a loving spirit, lovers of God and of their neighbor. See,
likewise, that they be of a lowly spirit, and "clothed with humility." Let
them also be such as are meek and gentle, patient and longsuffering; not apt
to "return evil for evil, or railing for railing, but contrariwise
blessing." Let them be men of understanding, such as are endued with wisdom
from above; and men unbiased, free from partiality, free from prejudice of
any kind. Care should likewise be taken, that both the persons and their
characters be well known to him: And let those that are acceptable to him be
chosen preferable to any others.
2. Love will dictate the manner wherein they should proceed, according to
the nature of the case. Nor can any one particular manner be prescribed for
all cases. But perhaps, in general, one might advise, before they enter upon
the thing itself, let them mildly and affectionately declare that they have
no anger or prejudice toward him, and that it is merely from a principle of
goodwill that they now come, or at all concern themselves with his affairs.
To make this the more apparent, they might then calmly attend to your
repetition of your former conversation with him, and to what he said in his
own defense, before they attempted to determine anything. After this they
would be better able to judge in what manner to proceed, "that by the mouth
of two or three witnesses, every word might be established;" that whatever
you have said may have its full force by the additional weight of their
authority.
3. In order to this, may they not, (1.) Briefly repeat what you spoke, and
what he answered? (2.) Enlarge upon, open, and confirm the reasons which you
had
given? (3.) Give weight to your reproof, showing how just, how kind, and how
seasonable it was? And, lastly, enforce the advices and persuasions which
you had annexed to it? And these may likewise hereafter, if need should
require, bear witness of what was spoken.
4. With regard to this, as well as the preceding rule, we may observe that
our Lord gives us no choice, leaves us no alternative, but expressly
commands us to do this, and nothing else in the place of it. He likewise
directs us when to do this; neither sooner nor later; namely, after we have
taken the first, and before we have taken the third step. It is then only
that we are authorized to relate the evil another has done, to those whom we
desire to bear a part with us in this great instance of brotherly love. But
let us have a care how we relate it to any other person, till both these
steps have been taken. If we neglect to take these, or if we take any
others, what wonder if we are burdened still? For we are sinners against
God, and against our neighbor; and how fairly soever we may color it, yet,
if we have any conscience, our sin will find us out, and bring a burden upon
our soul.
III. 1. That we may be thoroughly instructed in this weighty affair, our
Lord has given us a still farther direction: "If he will not hear them,"
then, and not till then, "tell it to the church." This is the third step.
All the question is, how this word, "the church," is here to be understood.
But the very nature of the thing will determine this beyond all reasonable
doubt. You cannot tell it to the national Church, the whole body of men
termed "the Church of England." Neither would it answer any Christian end if
you could; this, therefore, is not the meaning of the word. Neither can you
tell it to that whole body of people in England with whom you have a more
immediate connection. Nor, indeed, would this answer any good end: The word,
therefore, is not to be understood thus. It would not answer any valuable
end to tell the faults of every particular member to the church (if you
would so term it,) the congregation or society, united together in London.
It remains that you tell it to the elder or elders of the church, to those
who are overseers of that flock of Christ to which you both belong, who
watch over yours and his soul, "as they that must give account." And this
should be done, if it conveniently can, in the presence of the person
concerned, and, though plainly, yet with all the tenderness and love which
the nature of the thing will admit. It properly belongs to their office, to
determine concerning the behavior of those under their care, and to rebuke,
according to the demerit of the offense, "with all authority." When,
therefore, you have done this, you have done all which the Word of God, or
the law of love, requireth of you: You are not now partaker of his sin; but
if he perish, his blood is on his own head.
2. Here, also, let it be observed, that this, and no other, is the third
step which we are to take; and that we are to take it in its order after the
other two; not before the second, much less the first, unless in some very
particular circumstance. Indeed, in one case, the second step may coincide
with this: They may be, in a manner, one and the same. The elder or elders
of the church may be so connected with the offending brother, that they may
set aside the necessity, and supply the place, of the one or two witnesses;
so that it may suffice to tell it to them, after you have told it to your
brother, "between you and him alone."
3. When you have done this, you have delivered your own soul. "If he will
not hear the church," if he persist in his sin, "let him be to thee as an
heathen man and a publican." You are under no obligation to think of him any
more; only when you commend him to God in prayer. You need not speak of him
any more, but leave him to his own Master. Indeed, you still owe to him, as
to all other heathens, earnest, tender goodwill. You owe him courtesy, and,
as occasion offers, all the offices of humanity. But have no friendship, no
familiarity with him; no other intercourse than with an open Heathen.
4. But if this be the rule by which Christians walk, which is the land where
Christians live? A few you may possibly find scattered up and down, who make
a
conscience of observing it. But how very few! How thinly scattered upon the
face of the earth! And where is there any body of men that universally walk
thereby?
Can we find them in Europe? Or, to go no farther, in Great Britain or
Ireland? I fear not: I fear we may search these kingdoms throughout, and yet
search in vain. Alas for the Christian world! Alas for Protestants, for
Reformed Christians! O, "who will rise up with me against the wicked?" "Who
will take God's part" against the evil-speakers? Art thou the man? By the
grace of God, wilt thou be one who art not carried away by the torrent? Art
thou fully determined, God being thy helper, from this very hour to set a
watch, a continual "watch, before thy mouth, and keep the door of thy lips?"
From this hour wilt thou walk by this rule, "Speaking evil of no man?" If
thou seest thy brother do evil, wilt thou "tell him of his fault between
thee and him alone?" Afterwards, "take one or two witnesses," and then only
"tell it to the church?" If this be the full purpose of thy heart, then
learn one lesson well, "Hear evil of no man." If there were no hearers,
there would be no speakers, of evil. And is not (according to the vulgar
proverb) the receiver as bad as the thief? If, then, any begin to speak evil
in thy hearing, check him immediately. Refuse to hear the voice of the
charmer, charm he never so sweetly; let him use ever so soft a manner, so
mild an accent, ever so many professions of goodwill for him whom he is
stabbing in the dark, whom he smiteth under the fifth rib! Resolutely refuse
to hear, though the whisperer complain of being "burdened till he speak."
Burdened! thou fool! dost thou travail with thy cursed secret, as a woman
travaileth with child? Go, then, and be delivered of thy burden in the way
the Lord hath ordained! First, "go and tell thy brother of his fault between
thee and him alone.:" next, "take with thee one or two" common friends, and
tell him
in their presence: If neither of these steps take effect, then "tell it to
the church." But, at the peril of thy soul, tell it to no one else, either
before or after, unless in that one exempt case, when it is absolutely
needful to preserve the innocent! Why shouldst thou burden another as well
as thyself, by making him partaker of thy sin?
5. O that all you who bear the reproach of Christ, who are in derision
called Methodists, would set an example to the Christian world, so called,
at least in this one instance! Put ye away evil-speaking, talebearing,
whispering: Let none of them proceed out of your mouth! See that you "speak
evil of no man;" of the absent, nothing but good. If ye must be
distinguished, whether ye will or no, let this be the distinguishing mark of
a Methodist: "He censures no man behind his back: By this fruit ye may know
him." What a blessed effect of this self-denial should we quickly feel in
our hearts! How would our "peace flow as a river," when we thus "followed
peace with all men!" How would the love of God abound in our own souls,
while we thus confirmed our love to our brethren! And what an effect would
it have on all that were united together in the name of the Lord Jesus! How
would brotherly love continually increase, when this grand hindrance of it
was removed! All the members of Christ's mystical body would then naturally
care for each other. "If one member suffered, all would suffer with it; if
one was honored, all would rejoice with it;" and everyone would love his
brother "with a pure heart fervently." Nor is this all: But what an effect
might this have, even on the wild unthinking world! How soon would they
descry in us, what they could not find among all the thousands of their
brethren, and cry (as Julian the Apostate to his heathen courtiers,) "See
how these Christians love one another!" By this chiefly would God convince
the world, and prepare them also for His kingdom; as we may easily learn
from those remarkable words in our Lord's last, solemn prayer: "I pray for
them who will believe in me, that they all may be one, as thou, Father, art
in me, and I in thee; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me!"
[John 17:21] The Lord hasten the time! The Lord enable us thus to love one
another, not only "in word and in tongue, but in deed and in truth," even as
Christ hath loved us.
[Edited by Mike Messick, student at Northwest Nazarene College (Nampa, ID),
with corrections by George Lyons for the Wesley Center for Applied
Theology.]
This document (last modified September 30, 1995) from the Christian Classics
Ethereal Library server, at Wheaton College. This version has been designed
for the Wesley homepages on the General Board of Global Ministries, The
United Methodist Church Web Server at http://gbgm-umc.org
.
|
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
|
| Title: Re: The Cure Of Evil-speaking |
31 May 2007 07:46:08 AM |
|
|
"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> spake thusly and wrote:
The following is the text of a sermon from John Wesley centered on the
Biblical passage to speak evil of no man. Recently there have been some
posting on usenet by individuals who have intentionally made it very
difficult to respond with kindness and gentleness so I have been reading
You mean like this one that shows the true nature and
hypocrisy and sickness and obsession of Carl Mccaskey?
Documented criminal activity of Carl Mccaskey of Florida
saints@nettally.com
Some samples of the criminal complaints that I have filed against
Carl Mccaskey include: Durham police IRs 98-26609, 99-13333,
99-82433, 00-27821, and 00-34780
The following is from an old website. I still have the legal
documents that the file names refer to. The IR records that I
reference are part of the public record. Carl Mccaskey is a
sick, obsessed, false-christian liar when he denies his history!
Criminal complaint filed against Carl Mccaskey 4/9/98
nettlogs.txt This file consists of various logs of IRC harassment
by Carl Mccaskey which led to a criminal complaint being filed
with the Durham Police Dept [IR 98-26609] 4/9/98 against Mr.
Mccaskey with Nettally being listed as an accessory.
This file also contains an email from an admin at Nettally.com
stating his intent to support Mr. Mccaskey's IRC harassment and
his reluctance to do anything about his email harassment
fcas0604.txt This is a 6/4/98 FAX that was sent to the FBI and
Durham police regarding another harassing email believed to be
from Carl Mccaskey. This file will have various information
replaced with the * and the content of the email will not be
published here but was included in the original FAX.
This email was confirmed to have originated at nettally.com
per0611.txt This is the text of a 6/11/98 FAX that I sent to the
police and the FBI regarding an email that I received from one of
the trash at Net Tally who has been supporting Carl Mccaskey in
his harassment campaigns. The harassing email, fcas0604.txt, that
he deceitfully referred to in his email was traced to nettally by
the admins of the web/email site that was abused. Mr. Perrine has
now been given notice not to email here again and his email was
forwarded to abuse@cntfl.com.
mca0712.txt This is the content of a 7/12/98 FAX to the FBI and
the police etc. which was also emailed to Sprint and CNTFL abuse
depts. regarding the ongoing malicious harassment from Nettally
and Carl Mccaskey.
mca0713.txt This is the text of my 7/13/98 FAX to the police and
the FBI which contained an email sent to sprint and cntfl
regarding the ongoing harassment by wire from nettally. This is a
continuation of Durham police [IR 98-26609] 4/9/98 and many other
criminal complaints.
mca0713c.txt This is the text of my second 7/13/98 FAX to the
police and the FBI which contained an email sent to sprint and
cntfl regarding the ongoing harassment by wire from nettally.
This is a continuation of Durham police [IR 98-26609] 4/9/98 and
many other criminal complaints.
mca0925.txt This is the 9/25/98 log of another harassment by wire
incident by Carl Mccaskey. The low life trash running
nettally.com are knowingly supportive of Mr. Mccaskey's
harassment campaign
mca1217.txt This is the text of a 12/17/98 complaint emailed to
cntfl regarding additional IRC harassment from nettally.com. I am
deleting the content of the chat so as not to republish
Mccaskey's ramblings.
mca1217a.txt This is the text of an additional 12/17/98 complaint
emailed to cntfl regarding additional IRC harassment from
nettally.com. I am deleting the content of the chat so as not to
republish Mccaskey's ramblings.
mca1218.txt This is the text of an additional 12/18/98 complaint
emailed to cntfl regarding additional IRC harassment from
nettally.com. I am deleting the content of the chat so as not to
republish Mccaskey's ramblings.
mca1218.txt This is the text of a 2/21/99 complaint emailed to
cntfl.com and undernet.org containing the content of my written
statement to the Durham, NC police reported as Durham Police IR
99-13333 regarding this most recent denial of service attack from
nettally.com. I named Carl Mccaskey of Tallahassee, FL as the
suspect.. There were undernet IRCOPs aware of this incident as
well.
12/08/99 Durham, NC Police IR99-82433 Electronic Computer
Harassment complaint filed against Carl Mccaskey with one Mr.
Perrine named as an accessory.
8/08/2000 Durham, NC Police IR2000-27821 Electronic Computer
Stalking/Harassment complaint filed against Carl Mccaskey of
Tallahassee, FL. I provided the police with several IRC logs of
recent contacts as evidence.
10/03/2000 Durham, NC Police IR00-34780 Electronic Computer
Stalking/Harassment complaint filed against Carl Mccaskey of
Tallahassee, FL. I provided the police with IRC logs as evidence
Pastor Steve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
"That's factual; but not true."- deceiver Robert Sowle 2007
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Cure Of Evil-speaking |
31 May 2007 09:06:05 AM |
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On May 31, 8:46 am, Pastor Steve Winter <steve-.NO--S...@-prime.org>
wrote:
"Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> spake thusly and wrote:
The following is the text of a sermon from John Wesley centered on the
Biblical passage to speak evil of no man. Recently there have been some
posting on usenet by individuals who have intentionally made it very
difficult to respond with kindness and gentleness so I have been reading
You mean like this one that shows the true nature and
hypocrisy and sickness and obsession of Carl Mccaskey?
Documented criminal activity of Carl Mccaskey of Florida
sai...@nettally.com
And as usual, Steve Winter has documented no criminal activity
committed by myself. It's his usual falsehoods and libel he routinely
engages in. No law enforcement agency, court or even rationa
individual has accepted Steve Winter's accusations of criminal
activity.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: The Cure Of Evil-speaking |
31 May 2007 08:40:22 AM |
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On Wed, 30 May 2007 21:11:08 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
The following is the text of a sermon from John Wesley centered on the
Biblical passage to speak evil of no man. Recently there have been some
posting on usenet by individuals who have intentionally made it very
difficult to respond with kindness and gentleness so I have been reading
related scripture for guidance and this sermon by John Wesley addresses it
quite well. I hope it helps you as well.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Carl,
Are you one that should read and heed the following; or, is it for the
rest of us?
Bob
---
The Cure of Evil-speaking
by John Wesley
(text from the 1872 edition)
"If thy brother shall sin against thee, go and tell him his fault between
thee
and him alone: If he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if
he
will not hear, take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or
three
witnesses every word may be established. And if he will not hear them, tell
it
to the Church. But if he does not hear the church, let him be to thee as an
heathen man and a publican." Matt. 18:15-17
1. "Speak evil of no man," says the great Apostle: -- As plain a command as,
"Thou shalt do no murder." But who, even among Christians, regards this
command?
Yea, how few are there that so much as understand it? What is evil-speaking?
It is not, as some suppose, the same with lying or slandering. All a man
says may
be as true as the Bible; and yet the saying of it is evil-speaking. For
evil-speaking is neither more nor less than speaking evil of an absent
person; relating something evil, which was really done or said by one that
is not present when it is related. Suppose, having seen a man drunk, or
heard him curse or swear, I tell this when he is absent; it is
evil-speaking. In our language this is also, by an extremely proper name,
termed backbiting. Nor is there any material difference between this and
what we usually style tale-bearing. If the tale be delivered in a soft and
quiet manner (perhaps with expressions of good-will to the person, and of
hope that things may not be quite so bad,) then we call it whispering. But
in whatever manner it be done, the thing is the same; -- the same in
substance, if not in circumstance. Still it is evil-speaking; still this
command, "Speak evil of no man," is trampled under foot; if we relate to
another the fault of a third person, when he is not present to answer for
himself.
2. And how extremely common is this sin, among all orders and degrees of
men! How do high and low, rich and poor, wise and foolish, learned and
unlearned, run
into it continually! Persons who differ from each other in all things else,
nevertheless agree in this. How few are there that can testify before God,
"I am clear in this matter; I have always set a watch before my mouth, and
kept the door of my lips!" What conversation do you hear, of any
considerable length, whereof evil-speaking is not one ingredient? and that
even among persons who, in the general, have the fear of God before their
eyes, and do really desire to have a conscience void of offence toward God
and toward man.
3. And the very commonness of this sin makes it difficult to be avoided. As
we are encompassed with it on every side, so, if we are not deeply sensible
of the
danger, and continually guarding against it, we are liable to be carried
away by the torrent. In this instance, almost the whole of mankind is, as it
were, in a
conspiracy against us. And their example steals upon us, we know not how; so
that we insensibly slide into the imitation of it. Besides, it is
recommended from within as well as from without. There is scarce any wrong
temper in the mind of man, which may not be occasionally gratified by it,
and consequently incline us to it. It gratifies our pride, to relate those
faults of others whereof we think ourselves not to be guilty. Anger,
resentment, and all unkind tempers, are indulged by speaking against those
with whom we are displeased; and, in many cases, by reciting the sins of
their neighbors, men indulge their own foolish and hurtful desires.
4. Evil-speaking is the more difficult to be avoided, because it frequently
attacks us in disguise. We speak thus out of a noble, generous (it is well
if we do not say,) holy indignation, against these vile creatures! We commit
sin from mere hatred of sin! We serve the devil out of pure zeal for God! It
is merely in order to punish the wicked that we run into this wickedness.
"So do the passions" (as one speaks) "all justify themselves," and palm sin
upon us under the veil of holiness!
5. But is there no way to avoid the snare? Unquestionably there is. Our
blessed Lord has marked out a plain way for His followers, in the words
above recited.
None, who warily and steadily walk in this path, will ever fall into
evil-speaking. This rule is either an infallible preventive, or a certain
cure of it. In the preceding verses, our Lord had said, "Woe to the world,
because of offences," -- unspeakable misery will arise in the world from
this baleful fountain: (Offences are all things whereby anyone is turned out
of, or hindered in, the ways of God.): "For it must be that offenses
come," -- Such is the nature of things; such the wickedness, folly, and
weakness of mankind: "But woe to that man," -- miserable is that man, "by
whom the offense cometh." "Wherefore if thy hand, thy foot, thine eye, cause
thee to offend," -- if the most dear enjoyment, the most beloved and useful
person, turn thee out of or hinder thee in the way, "pluck it out," -- cut
them off, and cast them from thee. But how can we avoid giving offense to
some, and being offended at others? Especially, suppose they are quite in
the wrong, and we see it with our own eyes? Our Lord here teaches us how: He
lays down a sure method of avoiding offenses and evil-speaking together. "If
thy brother shall sin against thee, go and tell him of his fault, between
thee and him alone: If he will hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But
if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more, that by the mouth
of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he will not
hear them, tell it to the church: But if he will not hear the Church,
let him be to thee as an heathen man and a publican."
I. 1. First, "If thy brother shall sin against thee, go and tell him of his
fault, between thee and him alone." The most literal way of following this
first rule, where it is practicable, is the best: Therefore, if thou seest
with thine own eyes a brother, a fellow Christian, commit undeniable sin, or
hearest it with thine own ears, so that it is impossible for thee to doubt
the fact, then thy part is plain: Take the very first opportunity of going
to him; and, if thou canst have access, "tell him of his fault between thee
and him alone." Indeed, great care is to be taken that this is done in a
right spirit, and in a right manner. The success of a reproof greatly
depends on the spirit wherein it is given. Be not, therefore, wanting in
earnest prayer to God, that it may be given in a lowly spirit; with a deep,
piercing conviction, that it is God alone who maketh thee to differ; and
that if any good be done by what is now spoken, God doeth it himself. Pray
that he would guard thy heart, enlighten thy mind, and direct thy tongue to
such words as he may please to bless. See that thou speak in a meek as well
as a lowly spirit; for the wrath of man worketh not the
righteousness of God." If he be "overtaken in a fault," he can no otherwise
be restored, than "in the spirit of meekness." If he opposes the truth, yet
he cannot be brought to the knowledge thereof, but by gentleness. Still
speak in a spirit of tender love, "which many waters cannot quench." If love
is not conquered, it conquers all things. Who can tell the force of love?
Love can bow down the stubborn neck,
The stone to flesh convert;
Soften, and melt, and pierce and break
An adamantine heart.
Confirm, then, your love toward him, and you will thereby "heap coals of
fire upon his head."
2. But see that the manner also wherein you speak be according to the Gospel
of Christ. Avoid everything in look, gesture, word, and tone of voice, that
savors
of pride or self-sufficiency. Studiously avoid everything magisterial or
dogmatical, everything that looks like arrogance or assuming. Beware of the
most distant approach to disdain, overbearing, or contempt. With equal care
avoid all appearance of anger; and though you use great plainness of speech,
yet let there be no reproach, no railing accusation, no token of any warmth
but that of love. Above all, let there be no shadow of hate or ill-will, no
bitterness or sourness of expression; but use the air and language of
sweetness, as well as gentleness, that all may appear to flow from love in
the heart. And yet this sweetness need not hinder your speaking in the most
serious and solemn manner; as far as may be, in the very words of the
oracles of God (for there are none like them,) and as under the eye of Him
who is coming to judge the quick and dead.
3. If you have not an opportunity of speaking to him in person, or cannot
have access, you may do it by a messenger; by a common friend, in whose
prudence, as
well as uprightness, you can thoroughly confide. Such a person, speaking in
your name, and in the spirit and manner above described, may answer the same
end,
and, in a good degree, supply your lack of service. Only beware you do not
feign the want of opportunity, in order to shun the cross; neither take it
for granted
that you cannot have access, without ever making the trial. Whenever you can
speak in your own person, it is far better. But you should rather do it by
another, than not at all: This way is better than none.
4. But what, if you can neither speak yourself, nor find such a messenger as
you can confide in? If this is really the case, it then only remains to
write. And there may be some circumstances which make this the most
advisable way of speaking. One of these circumstances is, when the person
with whom we have to do is of so warm and impetuous a temper as does not
easily bear reproof, especially from an equal or inferior. But it may be so
introduced and softened in writing as to make it far more tolerable.
Besides, many will read the very same words, which they could not bear to
hear. It does not give so violent a shock to their pride, nor so sensibly
touch their honor. And suppose it makes little impression at first, they
will, perhaps, give it a second reading, and, upon farther consideration,
lay to heart what before they disregarded. If you add your name, this is
nearly the same thing as going to him, and speaking in person. And this
should always be done, unless it be rendered improper by some very
particular reason.
5. It should be well observed, not only that this is a step which our Lord
absolutely commands us to take, but that he commands us to take this step
first, before we attempt any other. No alternative is allowed, no choice of
anything else: This is the way; walk thou in it. It is true, he enjoins us,
if need require, to take two other steps; but they are to be taken
successively after this step, and neither of them before it: Much less are
we to take any other step, either before or beside this. To do anything
else, or not to do this, is, therefore, equally inexcusable.
6. Do not think to excuse yourself for taking an entirely different step, by
saying, "Why, I did not speak to anyone, till I was so burdened that I could
not refrain." You was burdened! It was no wonder you should, unless your
conscience was seared; for you was under the guilt of sin, of disobeying a
plain commandment of God! You ought immediately to have gone, and told "your
brother of his fault between you and him alone." If you did not, how should
you be other than burdened (unless your heart was utterly hardened,) while
you was trampling the command of God under foot, and "hating your brother in
your heart?" And what a way have you found to unburden yourself? God
reproves you for a sin of omission, for not telling your brother of his
fault; and you comfort yourself under His reproof by a sin of commission, by
telling your brother's fault to another person! Ease bought by sin is a dear
purchase! I trust in God, you will have no ease, but will be burdened so
much the more, till you "go to your brother and tell him," and no one else.
7. I know but of one exception to this rule: There may be a peculiar case,
wherein it is necessary to accuse the guilty, though absent, in order to
preserve the innocent. For instance: You are acquainted with the design
which a man has against the property or life of his neighbor. Now, the case
may be so circumstanced, that there is no other way of hindering that design
from taking effect, but the making it known, without delay, to him against
whom it is laid. In this case, therefore, this rule is set aside, as is that
of the Apostle, "Speak evil of no man:" and it is lawful, yea, it is our
bounden duty, to speak evil of an absent person, in order to prevent his
doing evil to others and himself at the same time. But remember, meanwhile
that all evil-speaking is, in its own nature, deadly poison. Therefore if
you are sometimes constrained to use it as a medicine, yet use it with fear
and trembling; seeing it is so dangerous a medicine, that nothing but
absolute necessity can excuse your using it at all. Accordingly, use it as
seldom as possible; never but when there is such a necessity: And even then
use as little of it as is possible; only so much as is necessary for the end
proposed. At all other times, "go and tell him of his fault between thee and
him alone."
II. 1. But what, "if he will not hear?" If he repay evil for good? If he be
enraged rather than convinced? What, if he hear to no purpose, and go on
still in the evil of his way? We must expect this will frequently be the
case; the mildest and tenderest reproof will have no effect; but the
blessing we wished for another will return into our own bosom. And what are
we to do then? Our Lord has given us a clear and full direction. Then "take
with thee one or two more:" This is the second step. Take one or two whom
you know to be of a loving spirit, lovers of God and of their neighbor. See,
likewise, that they be of a lowly spirit, and "clothed with humility." Let
them also be such as are meek and gentle, patient and longsuffering; not apt
to "return evil for evil, or railing for railing, but contrariwise
blessing." Let them be men of understanding, such as are endued with wisdom
from above; and men unbiased, free from partiality, free from prejudice of
any kind. Care should likewise be taken, that both the persons and their
characters be well known to him: And let those that are acceptable to him be
chosen preferable to any others.
2. Love will dictate the manner wherein they should proceed, according to
the nature of the case. Nor can any one particular manner be prescribed for
all cases. But perhaps, in general, one might advise, before they enter upon
the thing itself, let them mildly and affectionately declare that they have
no anger or prejudice toward him, and that it is merely from a principle of
goodwill that they now come, or at all concern themselves with his affairs.
To make this the more apparent, they might then calmly attend to your
repetition of your former conversation with him, and to what he said in his
own defense, before they attempted to determine anything. After this they
would be better able to judge in what manner to proceed, "that by the mouth
of two or three witnesses, every word might be established;" that whatever
you have said may have its full force by the additional weight of their
authority.
3. In order to this, may they not, (1.) Briefly repeat what you spoke, and
what he answered? (2.) Enlarge upon, open, and confirm the reasons which you
had
given? (3.) Give weight to your reproof, showing how just, how kind, and how
seasonable it was? And, lastly, enforce the advices and persuasions which
you had annexed to it? And these may likewise hereafter, if need should
require, bear witness of what was spoken.
4. With regard to this, as well as the preceding rule, we may observe that
our Lord gives us no choice, leaves us no alternative, but expressly
commands us to do this, and nothing else in the place of it. He likewise
directs us when to do this; neither sooner nor later; namely, after we have
taken the first, and before we have taken the third step. It is then only
that we are authorized to relate the evil another has done, to those whom we
desire to bear a part with us in this great instance of brotherly love. But
let us have a care how we relate it to any other person, till both these
steps have been taken. If we neglect to take these, or if we take any
others, what wonder if we are burdened still? For we are sinners against
God, and against our neighbor; and how fairly soever we may color it, yet,
if we have any conscience, our sin will find us out, and bring a burden upon
our soul.
III. 1. That we may be thoroughly instructed in this weighty affair, our
Lord has given us a still farther direction: "If he will not hear them,"
then, and not till then, "tell it to the church." This is the third step.
All the question is, how this word, "the church," is here to be understood.
But the very nature of the thing will determine this beyond all reasonable
doubt. You cannot tell it to the national Church, the whole body of men
termed "the Church of England." Neither would it answer any Christian end if
you could; this, therefore, is not the meaning of the word. Neither can you
tell it to that whole body of people in England with whom you have a more
immediate connection. Nor, indeed, would this answer any good end: The word,
therefore, is not to be understood thus. It would not answer any valuable
end to tell the faults of every particular member to the church (if you
would so term it,) the congregation or society, united together in London.
It remains that you tell it to the elder or elders of the church, to those
who are overseers of that flock of Christ to which you both belong, who
watch over yours and his soul, "as they that must give account." And this
should be done, if it conveniently can, in the presence of the person
concerned, and, though plainly, yet with all the tenderness and love which
the nature of the thing will admit. It properly belongs to their office, to
determine concerning the behavior of those under their care, and to rebuke,
according to the demerit of the offense, "with all authority." When,
therefore, you have done this, you have done all which the Word of God, or
the law of love, requireth of you: You are not now partaker of his sin; but
if he perish, his blood is on his own head.
2. Here, also, let it be observed, that this, and no other, is the third
step which we are to take; and that we are to take it in its order after the
other two; not before the second, much less the first, unless in some very
particular circumstance. Indeed, in one case, the second step may coincide
with this: They may be, in a manner, one and the same. The elder or elders
of the church may be so connected with the offending brother, that they may
set aside the necessity, and supply the place, of the one or two witnesses;
so that it may suffice to tell it to them, after you have told it to your
brother, "between you and him alone."
3. When you have done this, you have delivered your own soul. "If he will
not hear the church," if he persist in his sin, "let him be to thee as an
heathen man and a publican." You are under no obligation to think of him any
more; only when you commend him to God in prayer. You need not speak of him
any more, but leave him to his own Master. Indeed, you still owe to him, as
to all other heathens, earnest, tender goodwill. You owe him courtesy, and,
as occasion offers, all the offices of humanity. But have no friendship, no
familiarity with him; no other intercourse than with an open Heathen.
4. But if this be the rule by which Christians walk, which is the land where
Christians live? A few you may possibly find scattered up and down, who make
a
conscience of observing it. But how very few! How thinly scattered upon the
face of the earth! And where is there any body of men that universally walk
thereby?
Can we find them in Europe? Or, to go no farther, in Great Britain or
Ireland? I fear not: I fear we may search these kingdoms throughout, and yet
search in vain. Alas for the Christian world! Alas for Protestants, for
Reformed Christians! O, "who will rise up with me against the wicked?" "Who
will take God's part" against the evil-speakers? Art thou the man? By the
grace of God, wilt thou be one who art not carried away by the torrent? Art
thou fully determined, God being thy helper, from this very hour to set a
watch, a continual "watch, before thy mouth, and keep the door of thy lips?"
From this hour wilt thou walk by this rule, "Speaking evil of no man?" If
thou seest thy brother do evil, wilt thou "tell him of his fault between
thee and him alone?" Afterwards, "take one or two witnesses," and then only
"tell it to the church?" If this be the full purpose of thy heart, then
learn one lesson well, "Hear evil of no man." If there were no hearers,
there would be no speakers, of evil. And is not (according to the vulgar
proverb) the receiver as bad as the thief? If, then, any begin to speak evil
in thy hearing, check him immediately. Refuse to hear the voice of the
charmer, charm he never so sweetly; let him use ever so soft a manner, so
mild an accent, ever so many professions of goodwill for him whom he is
stabbing in the dark, whom he smiteth under the fifth rib! Resolutely refuse
to hear, though the whisperer complain of being "burdened till he speak."
Burdened! thou fool! dost thou travail with thy cursed secret, as a woman
travaileth with child? Go, then, and be delivered of thy burden in the way
the Lord hath ordained! First, "go and tell thy brother of his fault between
thee and him alone.:" next, "take with thee one or two" common friends, and
tell him
in their presence: If neither of these steps take effect, then "tell it to
the church." But, at the peril of thy soul, tell it to no one else, either
before or after, unless in that one exempt case, when it is absolutely
needful to preserve the innocent! Why shouldst thou burden another as well
as thyself, by making him partaker of thy sin?
5. O that all you who bear the reproach of Christ, who are in derision
called Methodists, would set an example to the Christian world, so called,
at least in this one instance! Put ye away evil-speaking, talebearing,
whispering: Let none of them proceed out of your mouth! See that you "speak
evil of no man;" of the absent, nothing but good. If ye must be
distinguished, whether ye will or no, let this be the distinguishing mark of
a Methodist: "He censures no man behind his back: By this fruit ye may know
him." What a blessed effect of this self-denial should we quickly feel in
our hearts! How would our "peace flow as a river," when we thus "followed
peace with all men!" How would the love of God abound in our own souls,
while we thus confirmed our love to our brethren! And what an effect would
it have on all that were united together in the name of the Lord Jesus! How
would brotherly love continually increase, when this grand hindrance of it
was removed! All the members of Christ's mystical body would then naturally
care for each other. "If one member suffered, all would suffer with it; if
one was honored, all would rejoice with it;" and everyone would love his
brother "with a pure heart fervently." Nor is this all: But what an effect
might this have, even on the wild unthinking world! How soon would they
descry in us, what they could not find among all the thousands of their
brethren, and cry (as Julian the Apostate to his heathen courtiers,) "See
how these Christians love one another!" By this chiefly would God convince
the world, and prepare them also for His kingdom; as we may easily learn
from those remarkable words in our Lord's last, solemn prayer: "I pray for
them who will believe in me, that they all may be one, as thou, Father, art
in me, and I in thee; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me!"
[John 17:21] The Lord hasten the time! The Lord enable us thus to love one
another, not only "in word and in tongue, but in deed and in truth," even as
Christ hath loved us.
[Edited by Mike Messick, student at Northwest Nazarene College (Nampa, ID),
with corrections by George Lyons for the Wesley Center for Applied
Theology.]
This document (last modified September 30, 1995) from the Christian Classics
Ethereal Library server, at Wheaton College. This version has been designed
for the Wesley homepages on the General Board of Global Ministries, The
United Methodist Church Web Server at http://gbgm-umc.org
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Cure Of Evil-speaking |
31 May 2007 09:16:38 AM |
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On May 31, 9:40 am, Bible Bob <bible...@saintly.com> wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2007 21:11:08 -0400, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com>
wrote:
The following is the text of a sermon from John Wesley centered on the
Biblical passage to speak evil of no man. Recently there have been some
posting on usenet by individuals who have intentionally made it very
difficult to respond with kindness and gentleness so I have been reading
related scripture for guidance and this sermon by John Wesley addresses it
quite well. I hope it helps you as well.
May God bless,
Carl
website --http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog --http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Carl,
Are you one that should read and heed the following; or, is it for the
rest of us?
Bob, I attempted to make it clear in my introduction that I read
Biblical passages for help and also read John Wesley's sermon on it. I
implied that I am attempting to implement was is being taught. To
answer your second question, the sermon is for all.
May God bless,
Carl
website --http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog --http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: The Cure Of Evil-speaking |
31 May 2007 11:54:45 AM |
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On 31 May 2007 07:16:38 -0700, wrote:
On May 31, 9:40 am, Bible Bob <bible...@saintly.com> wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2007 21:11:08 -0400, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com>
wrote:
The following is the text of a sermon from John Wesley centered on the
Biblical passage to speak evil of no man. Recently there have been some
posting on usenet by individuals who have intentionally made it very
difficult to respond with kindness and gentleness so I have been reading
related scripture for guidance and this sermon by John Wesley addresses it
quite well. I hope it helps you as well.
May God bless,
Carl
website --http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog --http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Carl,
Are you one that should read and heed the following; or, is it for the
rest of us?
Bob, I attempted to make it clear in my introduction that I read
Biblical passages for help and also read John Wesley's sermon on it. I
implied that I am attempting to implement was is being taught. To
answer your second question, the sermon is for all.
May God bless,
Carl
website --http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog --http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Carl,
Well and good.
While I don't agree with all of Wesley's writings; he did write some
good and useful stuff.
There is a fine line that is hard to walk on when it comes to speaking
evil. All of us step off it from time to time. Corinthians speaks
about calculating evil (thinketh no evil). We would be wise to ask
ourselves whether we are calculating evil or recognizing obvious works
of the flesh before we speak. If we can succeed even seventy percent
of the time to do that; then we will hurt a lot less people and not
have to suffer the guilt of knowing we have done wrong to another.
Bob
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| User: "Merlin" |
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| Title: Re: The Cure Of Evil-speaking |
31 May 2007 12:52:09 PM |
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how can you cure evil speaking, when you act evil by claiming speaking
is evil?
you have put down in your title..... so how do you complain about
insults and insult at the same time?
is this not another oxycontent? like love the sinner and hate
the............. to hate is evil period.
it is evil to call things evil? no? yes?
merlin
alt.bible, alt.christnet, alt.religion.christian,
alt.religion.christian.baptist, alt.religion.christian.methodist,
alt.christnet, alt.religion.christian.pentecostal, free.christians
.
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