| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
02 Aug 2007 12:55:57 AM |
| Object: |
The Doctrine of the Trinity is Biblical |
The Doctrine of the Trinity is Biblical
I feel your pain and I am here to kill your pain so that you can enjoy
your life. Hi, my name is Painkiller Bob, and I am a recovering
trinitarian and though my adiction to the pharmakia of trinitarianism
was not long lived, it left its unholy marks on my ohterwise beautiful
body and mind. I, too, experienced the pain of of always being wrong.
I feel your pain. I, too, experienced the humilation of being laughed
at by sane people. I feel your pain. I, too, suffered the spiritual
indebtedness suffered by those who know not the word of God. I feel
your pain. I would give you a testimony about my shortlived though
painful experiences as an idolator who worked against my God and my
Lord Jesus Christ by worshipping false gods as I was taught to do by
my slavemasters. I am Painkiller Bob and I am here to help you
recover from your addiction. You will no longer have to lick the
scraps thrown on the floor by your masters. You will be free, and
freeer, and freeeer as you learn the truth that will get your out of
your prisons of shame and guilt. I feel your pain.
I have noticed that unlearned trinitarians have been posting about the
biblical doctrine of the trinity ( I refuse to capitalize the names of
false gods). Don't you just love it when by their own words
trinitarians prove that the trinity does not exist? I do. What
follows may cause some of you trinitarians to experience head
spinning, violent streams of green vomit to spew from your mouth,
blood to drip from your eyes, ears, and nose, and other uncomfortable
sensations. I would suggest you cover your monitor screen and
keyboard with Saran wrap before you read further. As an alternative,
you could do a quick repentance, gain forgiveness for committing
idolatry and preaching false doctrines, and then continue reading.
Your keyboard would appreciate it.
"Biblical" means of, relating to, or being in accord with the Bible.
So, if what your talking points are correct the trinity would be of,
relating to, or being in accord with the Bible. What you fail to tell
people is that trinitarians corrupted the text of the Bible so that it
can be used as a source for lies concerning a trinity. For example,
the word set "the Holy Ghost" occurs 89 times in the King James
Version of the Bible. Nearly 60% of the time what the editors
supplied was incorrect. Even the dumbest unlearned trinitarian can
verify this by checking to see whether the Greek definite article
occurs before pneuma in the 89 verses. If the definite article does
not precede pneuma; then the verse should read "holy spirit" not; the
Holy Ghost. Since holy spirit is the agent or gift of God sent by God
it cannot be God Who is the Holy Spirit. In other words the editors
of the King James version used fallacies of accent to deceive readers
into thinking that the gift was the Giver. They did this to come up
with a third person of a trinity.
And here's the good news; there is no third person of a trinity
because there is no Holy Spirit separate from God Who is the Holy
Spirit. Holy Spirit is one of the names or titles of God.
Here's a good question for your unlearned trinitarians. The word set
"the Holy Ghost" occurs 89 times in the New Covenant. It does not
occur even once in the Old Covenant. Didn't the Holy Ghost exist back
in those days? So much for the third person of a trinity being
co-equal and co-eternal with God. The word set "holy spirit" does
occur three times in the Old Covenant but in each case speaks about
the gift or agent of God; not God. Of course the editors tried to get
tricky and convert common nouns to proper nouns, but anyone with two
eyes can see through their deception. Even you might be able to do
it. Here are the verses:
Psa 51:11 KJV
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from
me.
Isa 63:10 KJV
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned
to be their enemy, {and} he fought against them.
Isa 63:11 KJV
Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, {and} his people, {saying},
Where {is} he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of
his flock? where {is} he that put his holy Spirit within him?
The first verse indicates that holy spirit is upon the person speaking
and therefore separate and apart from God, so could not be God which
is why the words are not capitalized. If you read the two verses from
Isaiah carefully you will see that "holy spirit" is separate from God
in both cases and is therefore not God. Spirit should not be
capitalized in any of the verses because it refers to the agent or
gift of God at work in the creation; not to God the Creator Whose
habitation is the spiritual kingdom of the heavens.
The three passages tell us that "holy spirit" did exist before Jesus
Christ and that it was the agent or gift of God at work in the
creation. There is no verse in the Old Covenant that says that God is
the Holy Spirit. If God was not the Holy Spirit in the Old Covenant,
how could God be the Holy Spirit in the New Covenant if God does not
change? The answer is that the Holy Spirit did exist in the Old
Covenant but did not use the name or title then because it was not
necessary. Holy and Spirit is what God is. God was Holy in the Old
Covenant and God was Spirit in the Old Covenant just as God is Holy
and Spirit in the New Covenant. God does not change. God has many
names and titles (most of them occur in the Hebrew of the Old
Covenant.)
The word set "to pneuma to hagion" (lexical form) occurs 22 times in
the Greek. The Greek definite article (to) (lexical form) precedes
the noun pneuma and also precedes the noun hagion which is normally an
adjective that modifies spirit. According to scholars "to pneuma to
hagion" should be understood as "the spirit the holy (spirit)" so that
both articles are included in the English version. After all, if God
saw fit to emphasize both nouns who is man that he should take away
the emphasis put in place by God? Normally, but not always, the word
set "pneuma hagion" where pneuma is the noun and hagion is the
adjective (the adjective follows the noun it modifies in Greek), the
editors translate holy spirit putting the adjective before the noun.
When hagion occurs before pneuma, why did the editors translate holy
spirit instead of spirit holy? In Greek nouns and pronouns must agree
in case gender and neuter. Why did the editors select "he" as the
third person singular pronoun when "it" was more appropriate; or why
"whom" when "which" would be more neuter? What were they trying to
do? Make holy spirit a person? Pneuma is always neuter and cannot be
a he or a she; but can be a that, a which, or an it. Why the
deception unless to "Biblically" document a third person in a trinity?
If the trinity were real and pure and holy would the editors of the
many versions had to use so many tricks to convince their readers?
"Bible" is not a Scriptural word. The word of God does not call
itself the Bible. When you say Bible you are speaking about a version
of the translation of the Greek texts; which edition of the Greek
text? There are over four thousand readings in the Greek texts, which
one is right? A version is not the word of God but an essay that
contains what some men want their readers to think. A version
contains hundreds if not thousands of fallacies of accent and
deliberate additions, omissions, and changes. The English versions
were produced by trinitarians with an agenda - prove the existence of
a trinity no matter what. Then around 1900 when the Pentecostal
movement started things started changing so that some of the modern
versions began correcting some of the errors that were in the previous
versions. But on the whole all of the English versions continue using
the same fallacies of accent. Of the fifty two passages containing
"the Holy Ghost", the NASB corrected five or six. The LITV put the
added article in italic most of the time; but not all of the time.
When unlearned trinitarians say that the doctrine of the trinity is
Biblical they are saying that it is a doctrine based on various books
that contain many errors. Ever notice that trinitarians seem to be
afraid to say or write word of God; they use Biblical or Bible so that
they cannot be pinned down with truth.
The trintiarian conspiracy continues, as it has for hundreds of years,
to draw people into idolatry. Lil ole me ain't going to stop the
devil in his tracks; that's Christ's job. But maybe I can get one or
two of you trinitarians to change gods and begin to be loyal to God
and the Lord Jesus Christ. Find the answer to the following question:
The Holy Spirit which is God the Giver has His habitation in the
heavenlies. The Lord Jesus Christ hangs out there, too. Whenever,
pneuma hagion (lexical form) acts for God or is given by God the
action always takes place on the earth; always, every single time. Did
the third person of the trinity get kicked out of heaven? I will give
you a clue:
Gen 1:1-2 KJV
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness {was }upon
the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters.
God (elohim) is defined by the above verses as the Creator in
relationship to the creation as its Creator. The Creator existed
before the creation and before time and is not subject to time or the
creation but is superior to the creation. God (elohim) is the source
of the spirit which is the invisible moving active force sent by God
to accomplish His will upon the earth. The word spirit should not be
capitalized in verse two because it refers to the agent sent by God
Who is superior to and not subject to the agent He sent. Hence the
spirit is not coequal with God and is not a person; but is an
invisible force with the ability to carry out the will of God on the
earth.
PB
.
|
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| User: "Painkiller Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: The Doctrine of the Trinity is Biblical |
02 Aug 2007 01:24:37 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 01:55:57 -0400, wrote:
The Doctrine of the Trinity is Biblical
I feel your pain and I am here to kill your pain so that you can enjoy
your life. Hi, my name is Painkiller Bob, and I am a recovering
trinitarian and though my adiction to the pharmakia of trinitarianism
was not long lived, it left its unholy marks on my ohterwise beautiful
body and mind. I, too, experienced the pain of of always being wrong.
I feel your pain. I, too, experienced the humilation of being laughed
at by sane people. I feel your pain. I, too, suffered the spiritual
indebtedness suffered by those who know not the word of God. I feel
your pain. I would give you a testimony about my shortlived though
painful experiences as an idolator who worked against my God and my
Lord Jesus Christ by worshipping false gods as I was taught to do by
my slavemasters. But I don't want to. I am Painkiller Bob and I am here to help you
recover from your addiction. You will no longer have to lick the
scraps thrown on the floor by your masters. You will be free, and
freeer, and freeeer as you learn the truth that will get your out of
your prisons of shame and guilt. I feel your pain.
I have noticed that unlearned trinitarians have been posting about the
biblical doctrine of the trinity ( I refuse to capitalize the names of
false gods). Don't you just love it when by their own words
trinitarians prove that the trinity does not exist? I do. What
follows may cause some of you trinitarians to experience head
spinning, violent streams of green vomit to spew from your mouth,
blood to drip from your eyes, ears, and nose, and other uncomfortable
sensations. I would suggest you cover your monitor screen and
keyboard with Saran wrap before you read further. As an alternative,
you could do a quick repentance, gain forgiveness for committing
idolatry and preaching false doctrines, and then continue reading.
Your keyboard would appreciate it.
"Biblical" means of, relating to, or being in accord with the Bible.
So, if what your talking points are correct the trinity would be of,
relating to, or being in accord with the Bible. What you fail to tell
people is that trinitarians corrupted the text of the Bible so that it
can be used as a source for lies concerning a trinity. For example,
the word set "the Holy Ghost" occurs 89 times in the King James
Version of the Bible. Nearly 60% of the time what the editors
supplied was incorrect. Even the dumbest unlearned trinitarian can
verify this by checking to see whether the Greek definite article
occurs before pneuma in the 89 verses. If the definite article does
not precede pneuma; then the verse should read "holy spirit" not; the
Holy Ghost. Since holy spirit is the agent or gift of God sent by God
it cannot be God Who is the Holy Spirit. In other words the editors
of the King James version used fallacies of accent to deceive readers
into thinking that the gift was the Giver. They did this to come up
with a third person of a trinity.
And here's the good news; there is no third person of a trinity
because there is no Holy Spirit separate from God Who is the Holy
Spirit. Holy Spirit is one of the names or titles of God.
Here's a good question for your unlearned trinitarians. The word set
"the Holy Ghost" occurs 89 times in the New Covenant. It does not
occur even once in the Old Covenant. Didn't the Holy Ghost exist back
in those days? So much for the third person of a trinity being
co-equal and co-eternal with God. The word set "holy spirit" does
occur three times in the Old Covenant but in each case speaks about
the gift or agent of God; not God. Of course the editors tried to get
tricky and convert common nouns to proper nouns, but anyone with two
eyes can see through their deception. Even you might be able to do
it. Here are the verses:
Psa 51:11 KJV
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from
me.
Isa 63:10 KJV
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned
to be their enemy, {and} he fought against them.
Isa 63:11 KJV
Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, {and} his people, {saying},
Where {is} he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of
his flock? where {is} he that put his holy Spirit within him?
The first verse indicates that holy spirit is upon the person speaking
and therefore separate and apart from God, so could not be God which
is why the words are not capitalized. If you read the two verses from
Isaiah carefully you will see that "holy spirit" is separate from God
in both cases and is therefore not God. Spirit should not be
capitalized in any of the verses because it refers to the agent or
gift of God at work in the creation; not to God the Creator Whose
habitation is the spiritual kingdom of the heavens.
The three passages tell us that "holy spirit" did exist before Jesus
Christ and that it was the agent or gift of God at work in the
creation. There is no verse in the Old Covenant that says that God is
the Holy Spirit. If God was not the Holy Spirit in the Old Covenant,
how could God be the Holy Spirit in the New Covenant if God does not
change? The answer is that the Holy Spirit did exist in the Old
Covenant but did not use the name or title then because it was not
necessary. Holy and Spirit is what God is. God was Holy in the Old
Covenant and God was Spirit in the Old Covenant just as God is Holy
and Spirit in the New Covenant. God does not change. God has many
names and titles (most of them occur in the Hebrew of the Old
Covenant.)
The word set "to pneuma to hagion" (lexical form) occurs 22 times in
the Greek. The Greek definite article (to) (lexical form) precedes
the noun pneuma and also precedes the noun hagion which is normally an
adjective that modifies spirit. According to scholars "to pneuma to
hagion" should be understood as "the spirit the holy (spirit)" so that
both articles are included in the English version. After all, if God
saw fit to emphasize both nouns who is man that he should take away
the emphasis put in place by God? Normally, but not always, the word
set "pneuma hagion" where pneuma is the noun and hagion is the
adjective (the adjective follows the noun it modifies in Greek), the
editors translate holy spirit putting the adjective before the noun.
When hagion occurs before pneuma, why did the editors translate holy
spirit instead of spirit holy? In Greek nouns and pronouns must agree
in case gender and neuter. Why did the editors select "he" as the
third person singular pronoun when "it" was more appropriate; or why
"whom" when "which" would be more neuter? What were they trying to
do? Make holy spirit a person? Pneuma is always neuter and cannot be
a he or a she; but can be a that, a which, or an it. Why the
deception unless to "Biblically" document a third person in a trinity?
If the trinity were real and pure and holy would the editors of the
many versions had to use so many tricks to convince their readers?
"Bible" is not a Scriptural word. The word of God does not call
itself the Bible. When you say Bible you are speaking about a version
of the translation of the Greek texts; which edition of the Greek
text? There are over four thousand variant readings in the Greek texts, which
one is right? A version is not the word of God but an essay that
contains what some men want their readers to think. A version
contains hundreds if not thousands of fallacies of accent and
deliberate additions, omissions, and changes. The English versions
were produced by trinitarians with an agenda - prove the existence of
a trinity no matter what. Then around 1900 when the Pentecostal
movement started things started changing so that some of the modern
versions began correcting some of the errors that were in the previous
versions. But on the whole all of the English versions continue using
the same fallacies of accent. Of the fifty two passages containing
"the Holy Ghost", the NASB corrected five or six. The LITV put the
added article in italic most of the time; but not all of the time.
When unlearned trinitarians say that the doctrine of the trinity is
Biblical they are saying that it is a doctrine based on various books
that contain many errors. Ever notice that trinitarians seem to be
afraid to say or write word of God; they use Biblical or Bible so that
they cannot be pinned down with truth.
The trintiarian conspiracy continues, as it has for hundreds of years,
to draw people into idolatry. Lil ole me ain't going to stop the
devil in his tracks; that's Christ's job. But maybe I can get one or
two of you trinitarians to change gods and begin to be loyal to God
and the Lord Jesus Christ. Find the answer to the following question:
The Holy Spirit which is God the Giver has His habitation in the
heavenlies. The Lord Jesus Christ hangs out there, too. Whenever,
pneuma hagion (lexical form) acts for God or is given by God the
action always takes place on the earth; always, every single time. Did
the third person of the trinity get kicked out of heaven? I will give
you a clue:
Gen 1:1-2 KJV
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness {was }upon
the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters.
God (elohim) is defined by the above verses as the Creator in
relationship to the creation as its Creator. The Creator existed
before the creation and before time and is not subject to time or the
creation but is superior to the creation. God (elohim) is the source
of the spirit which is the invisible moving active force sent by God
to accomplish His will upon the earth. The word spirit should not be
capitalized in verse two because it refers to the agent sent by God
Who is superior to and not subject to the agent He sent. Hence the
spirit is not coequal with God and is not a person; but is an
invisible force with the ability to carry out the will of God on the
earth.
PB
If one is not a trinitarian can he be saved? If one is not a
trinitarian will he burn as a crispy critter in a mythical hell
invented by trinitarians?
.
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|
| User: "Carl" |
|
| Title: Re: The Doctrine of the Trinity is Biblical |
07 Aug 2007 08:33:39 PM |
|
|
Glenn wrote:
"Mark T" <moi@herethereanderywhere60> wrote in message
news:46b8151e@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"widdle Chucky Stamford" <shell__stamf...@cox.net> wrote:
People who actually submit to the word of God
"I luv my bible!" - Widdle Chucky
The Bible taken in totality and via sola scriptura teaches the Trinity.
<clip 12 page 6,600 word filibuster>
Wrong: The Bible taken in totality and via sola scriptura teaches the
doctrine of a triune god is false.
Actually the unarguable fact remains that the Bible taken in totality and
via sola scriptura teaches the Trinity. Again the fact that you are unable
to refute the points brought up by Dr. Ankerberg and Dr. Weldon show beyond
a reasonable doubt that you cannot refute them nor the Biblical doctrine of
the Trinity and instead have to resort to intellectual dishonesty as well as
intellectual cowardice. But that's the norm for those who deny Biblical
truth and embrace heresies like you. I will keep you in my prayers, my
friend.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
What Does the Bible Reveal About the Trinity?
by Dr. John Ankerberg, Dr. John Weldon
PART 1
When we speak of the Trinity, we must do so with caution and modesty, for,
as St. Augustine saith, "Nowhere else are more dangerous errors made, or is
research more difficult, or discovery more fruitful." -St. Thomas Aquinas,
Summa Theologies, ia q. xxi, 1272
All we ask you to understand is that Trinitarian theology was not derived
from pagan sources. It was derived from biblical passages where honest,
godly men said, "Hey, 2 Peter says there is a Person called the Father, and
he's God. And Acts 5 says there is a Person called the Spirit, and he's God.
And John 1 says there's a Person called the Word and he's God." You've got
Three Persons, and Deuteronomy 6 says, "There is only one God." Logical
conclusion: the Three Persons, somehow, are the One God. That's how
Trinitarian theology started. Not with the pagans. -Dr. Walter Martin,
responding to Dr. Robert Sabin, President of the Apostolic Bible Institute
of St. Paul, Minnesota, on "The John Ankerberg Show"
The biblical doctrine of the Trinity is vital to understand because it
concerns who God is, that is, a proper realization of the nature of God as
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. To understand the Trinity is to understand God
as He has revealed Himself to be.
Why is this important? Because if we are to worship God "in spirit and in
truth" (John 4:24), as Jesus commanded, we must know and worship the one
true God as He really is. To fail to do this is to fail to know and worship
God-and this cannot bring Him glory. Thus, those who reject the Trinity by
definition deny the true nature of God.
Consider several examples of professedly Christian religions that forcefully
reject what the Bible teaches. By denying the biblical teaching on the
Trinity, Jehovah's Witnesses make Jesus merely a creation of Jehovah and the
Holy Spirit merely Jehovah's impersonal force. Thus, Jesus "was actually a
creature of God" who earned his own salvation and immortality 1 and the Holy
Spirit "is not a person at all but is God's invisible active force by means
of which God carries out his holy will and work."2
In rejecting the Trinity, Jehovah's Witnesses founder C. T. Russell
blasphemously stated that the God of Christianity "is plainly not Jehovah
but the ancient deity, hoary with the iniquity of the ages-Baal, the Devil
Himself."3 Second Watchtower president Judge Rutherford declared in a
similar fashion, "The doctrine of the Trinity is a false doctrine and is
promulgated by Satan for the purpose of defaming Jehovah's name" and for
keeping others from "learning the truth of Jehovah and his Son, Jesus
Christ." Indeed, "God-fearing persons find it a bit difficult to love and
worship a complicated, freakish-looking three-headed God."4 Surely teachings
that caricature God in this manner do not bring to Him honor and glory.
In a similar fashion, Mormons maintain that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
are not immortal, but were individual spirit-men created by the sexual union
of their parent deities, each of whom then later evolved into Godhood.5
Mormonism thus rejects the unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by
teaching tritheism, or a belief in three separate Gods.
Indeed, Mormons are ultimately polytheists who reject the concept of one
true God. As a standard text of Mormon doctrine declares:
As pertaining to this universe, there are three Gods: the Father, Son, and
Holy Ghost. To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the
only Gods we worship. But in addition there is an infinite number of holy
personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to
exaltation [that is, Godhood] and are thus gods.6
Mary Baker Eddy was the founder of Christian Science, another group that
claims to be truly Christian. Yet in her Science and Health with Key to the
Scriptures, the bible of Christian Science, she writes:
The theory of three persons in one God (that is, a personal Trinity or
Tri-unity) suggests polytheism, rather than the one ever-present I Am. The
name Elohim is in the plural, but this plurality of Spirit does not imply
more than one God, nor does it imply three persons in one.7
Victor Paul Wierwille, founder of The Way International, reveals additional
common consequences of rejection of the Trinity: a denial not only of the
person of Jesus Christ but also of His atoning Work on the cross. Wierwille
argues as follows:
Through the years, the more and more I carefully researched God's Word for
knowledge, the less and less I found to substantiate a trinity. Even though
I had always accepted the idea of a three-in-one-God, I continually found
evidence in the Word of God which undermined a Christian trinity. [Further]
If Jesus Christ is God we have not yet been redeemed. Our very redemption is
dependent on Jesus Christ's being a man and not God. So how then did a
trinitarian doctrine come about? It gradually evolved and gained momentum in
late 1st, 2nd, and 3rd centuries as pagans, who had converted to
Christianity, brought to Christianity some of their pagan beliefs and
practices. Trinitarianism then was confirmed at Nicaea in 325 by Church
bishops out of political expediency.8
In essence, the reason the Trinity is important to understand according to
its biblical and theological formulation is that failure to do so can lead
to heretical views about who God is. This in turn can lead to rejection of
the one true God and worship of a false god. But if the Bible is clear on
anything, it is clear that faith in and worship of a false god is powerless
to save people from their sins. Jesus Himself emphasized the importance of
having an accurate knowledge of God when He said, "And this is eternal life,
that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast
sent" (John 17:3).
God warned Israel through the prophet Hosea, "My people are destroyed from
lack of knowledge" and "You shall acknowledge no God but me, no Savior
except me" (Hosea 4:6; 13:4). As their history so amply demonstrates, the
Israelites were spiritually ruined because they had rejected the true
knowledge of God and had turned to false gods and idols. Unfortunately, in a
similar manner, those who deliberately reject the Trinity, knowing in
advance what the Bible teaches about it, only reveal their own lack of
salvation (1 Cor. 2:14). In other words, no one can consistently dishonor
what the Holy Spirit has revealed in Scripture as to the true nature of God
and logically claim to be a Christian.
Notes
1 Q.v., "Jesus Christ," Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, Aid to Bible
Understanding (Brooklyn, NY: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1971), pp.
437, 918; Anthony A. Hoekema, The Four Major Cults (Grand Rapids, MI:
Eerdmans, 1970), p. 295 citing Let God Be True (1952), p. 74.
2 Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, Things in Which It Is Impossible for
God to Lie (Brooklyn, NY: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1965), p. 269.
3 C. T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures- Vol. 7: The Finished Mystery, p.
410 cited by Wilton M. Nelson and Richard K. Smith, "Jehovah's Witnesses" in
David J. Hesselgrave, ed., Dynamic Religious Movements: Case Studies of
Rapidly Growing Religious Movements Around the World (Grand Rapids: Baker,
1978), p. 181.
4 Cited by Charles S. Braden, These Also Believe: A Study of Modern American
Cults and Minority Religious Movements (New York: Macmillan, 1970), p. 371
quoting Judge Rutherford's Uncovered (Brooklyn, NY: Watchtower Bible and
Tract Society, 1937), pp. 48-49; Let God Be True (1946), pp. 82-83, 93.
5 See John Ankerberg, John Weldon, Behind the Mask of Mormonism (Eugene, OR:
Harvest House, 1996), chap. 10.
6 Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1977), pp.
270, 576-577.
7 Mary Baker Eddy, Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures (Boston,
MA: The First Church of Christ, Scientist 1971), pp. 256, 515.
8 Victor Paul Wierwille, Jesus Christ Is Not God (New Knoxville, OH:
American Christian Press, 1975), pp. 2-3, 6-7, 25.
PART 2
What is the Trinity?
God has revealed that He is three persons or centers of consciousness within
one Godhead. Because the concept cannot be fully comprehended does not mean
the doctrine cannot be accurately described or defined; however, precision
here requires some technicality. One good definition of the Trinity is
provided by noted church historian Philip Schaff:
God is one in three persons or hypostases [that is, distinct persons of the
same nature], each person expressing the whole fullness of the Godhead, with
all his attributes. The term persona is taken neither in the old sense of a
mere personation or form of manifestation (prosopon, face, mask), nor in the
modern sense of an independent, separate being or individual, but in a sense
which lies between these two conceptions, and thus avoids Sabellianism on
the one hand, and Tritheism on the other. [Sabellianism taught that God was
one person only who existed in three different forms or manifestations;
tritheism refers to a belief in three separate gods.] The divine persons are
in one another, and form a perpetual intercommunication and motion within
the divine essence. Each person has all the divine attributes which are
inherent in the divine essence, but each has also a characteristic
individuality or property, which is peculiar to the person, and cannot be
communicated; the Father is unbegotten, the Son begotten, the Holy Ghost is
proceeding. In this Trinity there is no priority or posteriority of time, no
superiority or inferiority of rank, but the three persons are coeternal and
coequal.1
It is important to note here that the Bible teaches both monotheism and
trinitarianism. It teaches a monotheistic view-that there is only one true
God-and a trinitarian view-that this one true God exists eternally as three
persons. This triunity of God was defended from earliest times as Christian
theologians and apologists were careful both to safeguard the unity of God
against tritheism and also to maintain the respective deity of the three
persons. As Gregory of Nyssa stated in his letter to Ablabius, "To say that
there are three gods is wicked. Not to bear witness to the deity of the Son
and the Spirit is ungodly and absurd. Therefore one God must be confessed by
us according to the witness of Scripture, 'Hear Israel, the Lord your God is
one Lord' (Deuteronomy 6:4), even if the word 'deity' extends through the
holy trinity."2
In his Christian Theology, Millard J. Erickson offers six points that must
be included in a proper understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity:
1. There is only one God.
2. Each person in the Godhead is equally deity.
3. The threeness and oneness of God constitute a paradox or an
antinomy-merely an apparent contradiction, not a genuine one. This is
because God's threeness and oneness do not exist in the same respect-that
is, they are not simultaneously affirming and denying the same thing at the
same time and in the same manner. God's oneness refers to the divine
essence; His threeness to the plurality of persons.
4. The Trinity is eternal-there have always been three persons, each of whom
is eternally divine. One or more of the persons did not come into being at a
point in time or at some point in time become divine. There has never been
any change in the essential divine nature of the triune God. He is and will
be what He has always been forever.
5. The function of one member in the Trinity may for a time be subordinate
to one or both of the other members, although this does not mean He is in
anyway inferior in essence. Each person of the Trinity has had, for a period
of time, a particular function unique to Himself. In other words, the
particular function that is sometimes unique to a given person in the
Trinity is only a temporary role exercised for a given purpose. It does not
represent a change in His status or essence. When the second person of the
Trinity incarnated and became Jesus Christ, He did not become less than the
Father, although He did become subordinate to the Father functionally. In
like manner, the Holy Spirit is now subordinated to the ministry of the Son
(John 14-16), as well as to the will of the Father, but He is not less than
they are. Certain examples may illustrate this. A wife may have a
subordinate role to a husband, but she is also his equal. Equals in some
business enterprise may elect one of their number to serve as head or a
chairperson for a period, without any change in rank. During World War II,
the highest ranking member of an aircraft, the pilot, would nevertheless
carefully subordinate his decisions to the bombardier, a lower ranking
officer.
6. Finally, the Trinity is incomprehensible. Even when we are in heaven and
fully redeemed, we will still not totally comprehend God because it is
impossible that a finite creature could ever fully comprehend an infinite
being. Thus, "Those aspects of God which we never fully comprehend should be
regarded as mysteries that go beyond our reason rather than as paradoxes
which conflict with reason."3
This last point takes us to our next question.
Why is the Trinity a mystery?
Before we discuss what the Bible teaches about the Trinity, we must remember
that this doctrine is something finite minds can never fully comprehend. The
Trinity may be logically defined, but this is partly the problem because
"the infinite truth of the Godhead lies far beyond the boundaries of logic,
which deals only with finite truths and categories."4 In other words, as an
infinite being, God can never be fully understood by any finite person. If
we can't understand something as basic as particle physics, who would argue
we should be able to rationally comprehend all that an infinite God is? As
Dorothy L. Sayers once stated in Current Religious Thought (1957), "Why do
you complain that the proposition God is three in one is obscure and
mystical and yet acquiesce meekly in the physicist's fundamental formula,
'two P minus PQ equals IH over two Pi where I equals the square root of
minus one' when you know quite well that the square root of minus one is
paradoxical and Pi is incalculable?"
Consider that an ant could never comprehend all that a human being is, even
if it tried. Yet, if a human being could somehow become an ant, it might be
able to explain enough about what a human is so that the ant could gain
something of an understanding as to what a human is.
When we consider that God is, quite literally, infinitely removed from men,
the parallel suffers immeasurably. All we can truly understand about God is
what He has revealed to us in the Bible. And while this does give us a great
deal of accurate information, it obviously does not give us exhaustive
information that plumbs the depths of His infinity. Indeed, one of the
glories of eternal salvation (John 5:24; 6:47) will be that finite creatures
will forever learn wondrous things about the inexhaustible glories and
perfections of an infinite God. This heavenly knowledge will make the things
learned on earth pale in contrast.
The problems inherent in fully comprehending the doctrine of the Trinity are
also inherent in the person of Jesus Christ. The doctrine known as the
hypostatic union assimilates all the biblical data in order to accurately
describe the nature of the Incarnation. It declares that Jesus is
undiminished deity and full humanity in one person. Jesus Christ is both God
and man. Jesus is not part human and part divine-He is fully man and fully
God.
Because of this He has two natures, one divine and one human. But He is not
two persons-He is not schizophrenic. Further, He is one person with two
different kinds of consciousness (divine and human). Also, He is one person
with two wills (if He truly has two natures, then He must have two wills,
one human and one divine); however, Jesus Christ never had a conflict of
wills.
Christ's two natures were not altered by their union within the one person
of Christ. Both divine and human characteristics and deeds may be attributed
to the person of Christ under any of His names, whether divine or human.
Also, both the human and divine natures of Christ may be manifested during a
single event. Finally, the union of Christ's two natures was not altered by
His death, burial, resurrection, or ascension but will remain throughout
eternity.5
The above material illustrates the importance of precision for accurately
formulating the biblical data-and also how easily misconceptions might arise
concerning the nature of God. This is why God encourages and commands us to
"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not
need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15).
Christians should therefore study the doctrine of the Trinity to know how to
effectively deal with the biblical data and answer the arguments of those in
opposition: "And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be
kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must
gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading
them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses
and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his
will" (2 Timothy 2:24-26).
Thomas à Kempis stated Christian priorities eloquently when he wrote:
Grant to us, O Lord, to know that which is worth knowing, to love that which
is worth loving, to praise that which pleaseth Thee most, to esteem that
which is most precious unto Thee, and to dislike whatsoever is evil in Thy
eyes. Grant us with true judgment to distinguish things that differ, and
above all to search out and to do what is well pleasing unto Thee, through
Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
Christians can please God by accepting what God has revealed and what the
Church has formulated historically that is in accordance with biblical
teaching.
Must we believe in the Trinity in order to be saved?
Prior knowledge of the Trinity, especially in its theological formulation,
is not necessary for a person to be saved. But once saved, it is vital for
Christians to know the true nature of the God who has so graciously pardoned
them. This explains why the Church has always recognized the importance of a
proper understanding of God and maintained that those who reject the
scriptural view of God, as long as they do so, cannot be saved.
The great Athanasian Creed of the Church declares,
So the Father is God: the Son is God: and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet
they are not three Gods: but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord: the
Son is Lord: and the Holy Ghost is Lord. And yet not three Lords: but one
Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity: to acknowledge
every Person by himself to be God and Lord: So are we forbidden by the
Catholic Religion: to say. There be three Gods or three Lords. The Father is
made of none: neither created, nor begotten, the Son is of the Father alone:
not made, nor created: but begotten. Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the
Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten: but proceeding... the whole
three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as
aforesaid: the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be
worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the
Trinity.6
Noted Church historian Philip Schaff comments as follows concerning the
creed's placing of a divine curse or anathema on those who reject the
Trinity. He points out the Athanasian Creed
..begins and ends with the solemn declaration that the catholic [i.e.,
universal] faith in the Trinity and the Incarnation is the indispensable
condition of salvation, and that those who reject it will be lost forever.
This anathema, in its natural historical sense, is not merely a solemn
warning against the great danger of heresy, nor, on the other hand, does it
demand, as a condition of salvation, a full knowledge, and assent to, the
logical statement of the doctrines set forth (this would condemn the great
mass even of Christian believers). But it does mean to exclude from heaven
all who reject the divine truth therein taught. It requires everyone who
would be saved to believe in the only true and living God: Father, Son, and
Holy Ghost, one in essence, three in persons, and in one Jesus Christ, very
God and very man in one person.7
As Vladimir Lossky once put boldly in The Mystical Theology of the Eastern
Church, "Between the Trinity and Hell there lies no other choice."8
In fact, it is noteworthy that an examination of religions that claim to be
Christian yet deny the Trinity invariably reveals that they also deny other
key Christian doctrines, such as salvation by grace through faith alone. In
other words, without a proper respect for Scripture and its understanding of
God, it is unlikely one will get much else correct biblically. Throughout
its history, the Christian church has maintained that in order to be
faithful to the teaching of the New Testament, one must affirm at a minimum
the following doctrines: 1) the doctrine of the trinity; 2) the doctrine of
salvation by grace through faith; 3) the doctrine of the incarnation and
sinlessness of Christ; and 4) the sacrificial death, atonement, and
resurrection of Christ. It is almost exclusively true that those who deny
point one, the Trinity, also deny point two and often points three or four
as well.
As Dr. Harold O. J. Brown points out in his excellent historical survey
Heresies, modalism, for example, makes the event of redemption almost a
charade. Why? Because if the Son of God is not a distinct person, as
modalism teaches, He can hardly represent us before God the Father. And if
Jesus Christ is not a real, separate person from God the Father-One who can
stand before Him, address Him and intercede for us-then what happens to the
concept of substitutionary atonement? If Christ does not exist as a separate
person, how did He pay for our sins on the cross to satisfy the justice of
God the Father? Thus, Dr. Brown correctly states, "Where modalism prevails,
the concept of... vicarious atonement, will necessarily be absent, and so
modalism is sometimes adopted by those who object to the doctrine of
vicarious atonement."9
In other words, if there is no Trinity then there is no incarnation and no
objective redemption or salvation. There is no one who is acting as a
mediator between God and man. When the Trinity has been denied, the other
chief articles logically related to it such as atonement, regeneration, and
so on are almost always altered or abandoned. This is why theologian Loraine
Boettner concludes,
In the nature of the case, anti-trinitarianism inevitably leads to a
radically different system of religion. Historically the Church has always
refused to recognize as Christians those who rejected the doctrine of
Trinity. Also, historically, every great revival of Christianity down
through the ages has been a revival of adhesion to fullest Trinitarianism.
It is not too much to say, therefore, that the Trinity is the point on which
all Christian ideas and interests focus, at once the beginning and the end
of all true insight into Christianity.10
Notes
1 Philip Schaff, ed., rev. by David S. Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom:
With a History and Critical Notes-Vol. 1: The History of the Creeds (Grand
Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983). The Greek term was transliterated by the
authors.
2 "Gregory of Nyssato Ablabius," in William G. Rusch, trans. and ed., The
Trinitarian Controversy (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1980), pp. 149,
151-152.
3 Millard J. Erickson, Christian Theology (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1986,
one vol. edition), pp. 337-338.
4 Schaff, ed., p. 38.
5 For a good discussion see Robert Glenn Gromacki, The Virgin Birth:
Doctrine of Deity (New York: Thomas Nelson, 1974), chaps 9, 11-13.
6 Cited in E. Calvin Beisner, God in Three Persons (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale,
1984), pp. 12-13.
7 Schaff, ed., pp. 39-40.
8 Vladimir Lossky, The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church (1957), p.
66.
9 Dr. Harold O. J. Brown, Heresies (Doubleday, 1984), pp. 99-100.
10 Loriane Boettner, Studies in Theology (Nutley, NJ: Presbyterian and
Reformed, 1980), p. 139.
PART 3
Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?
How do we know that the doctrine of the Trinity is biblical? That the
Trinity is a biblical doctrine can be seen from five simple statements
supported by the Bible. And, since the Jehovah's Witnesses are one group so
adamantly opposed to the doctrine as being something "pagan,"
"unreasonable," and "of the devil," we thought it might be instructive to
begin by citing their own Bible, the New World Translation (1970 edition),
in support of the doctrine. Thus, even the New World Translation teaches the
doctrine of the Trinity. In the scriptures below, the term "Holy Spirit" is
not capitalized because Jehovah's Witnesses believe that "holy spirit" is
merely God's active, impersonal force, not a true person. (For those who
have never done so, looking up these scriptures during your time of personal
Bible study will be a rewarding learning process.)
1. There is only one true God: "For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men" (1 Tim. 2:5 NWT; cf. Deut. 4:35, 6:4; Isa. 43:10).
2. The Father is God: "There is actually to us one God the Father" (1 Cor.
8:6 NWT; cf. John 17:1-3; 2 Cor. 1:3; Phil. 2:11; Col. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:2).
3. Jesus Christ, the Son, is God: "but he [Jesus] was also calling God his
own Father, making himself equal to God": (John 5:18 NWT); "In answer,
Thomas said to him [Jesus]: 'My Lord and my God!'" (John 20:28 NWT, cf. Isa.
9:6; John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Titus 2:13; 2 Pet. 1:1).
4. The Holy Spirit is a person, is eternal, and is therefore God: "However,
when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all
the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he
hears he will speak and he will declare to you the things coming" (John
16:13 NWT, emphasis added). The Holy Spirit is also eternal: "How much more
will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered
himself without blemish to God" (Heb. 9:14 NWT). The Holy Spirit is
therefore God: "But Peter said: 'Ananias, why has Satan emboldened you to
play false to the holy spirit?' You have played false, not to men, but to
God" (Acts 5:3, 4 NWT, emphasis added).
5. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons with equal
authority: "Baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and of the
Holy Spirit"; "Now I exhort you, brothers, through our Lord Jesus Christ and
through the love of the spirit, that you exert yourselves with me in prayers
to God for me"; "The undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus Christ and the
love of God and the sharing in the holy spirit be with all of you" (Matt.
28:19; Rom. 15:30; 2 Cor. 13:14 NWT).
In Scripture, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are clearly
distinguished as separate persons, yet there is only one God. Thus, "There
is... one Spirit... one Lord [Jesus]... one God and Father of all" (Eph.
4:4-6; cf., 1 Cor. 12:4-11). Further, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are
never identified as one person only, as modern modalists such as the United
Pentecostal Church/ "Jesus Only" groups teach. For example, in John 6:38
(KJV) Jesus says, "I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the
will of Him that sent me." Because will is the essence of personality, we
certainly have two personalities here.
In addition, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are so dearly and consistently
linked in Scripture that to assume God is not three Persons makes it
impossible to understand some passages. For example, consider the following
Scriptures: Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matt.
28:19).
For this reason I kneel before the Father... I pray that out of his glorious
riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner
being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith (Eph.
3:14,16,17a).
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the
fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all (2 Cor. 13:14).
But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray
in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy
of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life (Jude 20, 21).
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal
Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts
that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God (Heb. 9:14).
I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the
Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me (Rom. 15:30).
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed
us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a
deposit, guaranteeing what is to come (2 Cor. 1:21, 22).
Give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ
Jesus. Do not put out the Spirit's fire (1 Thess. 5:18, 19).
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not
because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved
us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he
poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior (Titus 3:3-6).
There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different
kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working,
but the same God works all of them in all men (1 Cor. 12:4-6).
For through him [Jesus] we both have access to the Father by one Spirit
(Eph. 2:18; cf., 3:11-16).
In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy
temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a
dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit (Eph. 2:21-22).
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord,
because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying
work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth (2 Thess. 2:13,14).
(See also Rom. 14:17,18; 15:13-17; 1 Cor. 6:11,17-19; 2 Cor. 3:4-6; Gal.
2:21-3:2; Eph. 5:18-20; Phil. 2:1,6; Col. 1:6-8; 1 Thess. 1:1,5; 4:2,8; 2
Thess. 3:5; 1 John 3:23,24.)
To further illustrate, try answering the following questions without
concluding that the Bible teaches the doctrine of the Trinity:
1. Who raised Jesus from the dead? The Father (Rom. 6:4)? The Son (John
2:19-21; 10:17,18)? The Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:11)? Or God (Acts 3:26; 1 Thess.
1:10; Heb. 13:20; Acts 13:30; 17:31)?
2. Who does the Bible say is God? The Father (Eph. 4:6)? The Son (Titus
2:13; John 1:1,14; 20:28)? The Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3,4)? Or God (Deut. 4:35;
Isa. 45:18)?
3. Who created the world? The Father (Eph. 3:9-14; 4:6)? The Son (Col.
1:16,17; John 1:1-3)? The Holy Spirit (Gen. 1:2; Psa. 104:30)? Or God (Gen.
1:1; Heb. 11:3)?
4. Who saves and regenerates man? The Father (1 Pet. 1:3)? The Son (John
5:21,4:14)? The Holy Spirit (John 3:6, Titus 3:5)? Or God (1 John 3:9)?
5. Who justifies man? The Father (Jer. 23:6, cf. 2 Cor. 5:19)? The Son (Rom.
5:9; 10:4; 2 Cor. 5:19, 21)? The Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:11; Gal. 5:5)? Or God
(Rom. 4:6; 9:33)?
6. Who sanctifies man? The Father (Jude 1)? The Son (Titus 2:14)? The Holy
Spirit (1 Pet. 1:2)? Or God (Ex. 31:13)?
7. Who propitiated God's just anger against man for his sins? The Father (1
John 4:14; John 3:16; 17:5; 18:11)? The Son (Matt. 26:28; John 1:29; 1 John
2:2)? The Holy Spirit (Heb. 9:14)? Or God (2 Cor.5:19,21; Acts 20:28; 1 John
4:10)?
So, although one member of the Trinity may have a more prominent part in a
specific action or role such as creating or redeeming, all three persons are
still involved. What this means is that it is proper for purposes of
illustration to substitute (or include) any specific person of the Trinity
in any event in the Old Testament or New Testament where the term "God" is
used. In fact, Scripture itself does this. In Acts 28:25, 26 the Holy Spirit
is said to speak to Isaiah, but in Isaiah 6:8,9 the speaker of the same
words is said to be God.
PART 4
Does Scripture declare the deity of Jesus Christ?
Many cults and liberal theologians reject the deity of Christ and the
Trinity as scriptural teachings only due to their own biases. But it is
significant that even some Unitarians who reject the Trinity nevertheless
confess that it is a biblical teaching based on "its obvious sense, its
natural meaning" as found in Scripture. These words of George E. Ellis, a
nineteenth century Unitarian leader, illustrate the biases of
anti-trinitarian groups and liberals who refuse to accept the Trinity on
personal-not biblical-grounds. Ellis confesses, "Only that kind of
ingenious, special, discriminative, and in candor I must add, forced
treatment, which it receives from us liberals can make the book teach
anything but Orthodoxy."1
No less an authority than the great Princeton theologian B. B. Warfield
pointed out that the doctrine of the Trinity "is rather everywhere
presupposed" in Scripture.2
As E. Calvin Beisner, author of God in Three Persons, states,
The testimony of the New Testament to the deity of Christ is unanimous....
Were there no passages at all which directly call Christ God, we would still
have a great weight of evidence that is the New Testament conception of him,
for in all senses he is depicted as precisely parallel to God the Father. C.
F. D. Moule wrote: "Far more impressive than any single passage are two
implicit Christological 'pointers.'" At first is the fact that, in the
greetings of the Pauline epistles. God and Christ are brought into a single
formula. It requires an effort of imagination to grasp the enormity that
this must have seemed to a non-Christian Jew. It must have administered a
shock comparable (if the analogy may be allowed without irreverence) to our
finding a religious Cuban today indicting a message from God-and-"Che"
Guevara....
The other Christological pointer, evidenced early, because in the undeniably
genuine Pauline epistles is the fact that Paul seems to experience Christ as
any theist reckons to understand God-that is, as personal, but as more than
individual: as more than a person. This is evidenced by certain uses (though
admittedly not all) of the well known incorporative formulae, "in
Christ,...3
Please consider the following scriptures. These clearly teach that Jesus
Christ is God. Indeed, only overwhelming evidence in favor of Christ's deity
would have convinced skeptical, staunchly monotheistic, and initially
frightened Jews to proclaim His deity to a hostile Jerusalem and later the
world.
1. John 1:1, 14- "The Word was God... The Word became flesh and made his
dwelling among us."
2. John 1:18- "The only begotten God."
3. John 20:28- Thomas said to him [Jesus] "My Lord and my God."
4. Titus 2:13- "Our great God and Savior Jesus Christ."
5. Hebrews 1:8- But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last
for ever and ever."
6. 2 Peter 1:1- "Our God and Savior Jesus Christ."
7. 1 John 5:20- "Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."
8. Colossians 2:9- "In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily
form."
9. Isaiah 9:6- "For to us a child is born... and he will be called... Mighty
God."
10. Isaiah 7:14/Matthew 1:23- "Immanuel"-which means, "God with us."
11. Hebrews 1:3- "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact
repre- sentation of His being...."
12. Colossians 1:15, 16- "He is the image of the invisible God... by him all
things were created."
13. Acts 20:28- The church was purchased with the blood of God.
14. 2 Corinthians 4:4- "Christ, who is the image of God."
15. Romans 9:5- "Christ, who is God over all, forever praised."
16. 1 Corinthians 1:24- "Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
17. 2 Thessalonians 1:12- "Our God and Lord Jesus Christ."
18. Philippians 2:6- "being in very nature God." (The Greek could be
literally translated "continuing to subsist in the form of God.") 4
In light of these scriptures and more, can any thinking person logically
deny that the Bible teaches Jesus Christ is God?
Notes
1 In E. Calvin Beisner, God in Three Persons (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale, 1984),
p. 25.
2 Ibid., p. 26.
3 Ibid., pp. 33-34.
4 Ibid., p. 30.
.
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| User: "Glenn" |
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| Title: Re: The Doctrine of the Trinity is Not Biblical |
07 Aug 2007 08:43:20 PM |
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Carl wrote:
Glenn wrote:
"Mark T" <moi@herethereanderywhere60> wrote in message
news:46b8151e@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"widdle Chucky Stamford" <shell__stamf...@cox.net> wrote:
People who actually submit to the word of God
"I luv my bible!" - Widdle Chucky
The Bible taken in totality and via sola scriptura teaches the Trinity.
<clip 12 page 6,600 word filibuster>
Wrong: The Bible taken in totality and via sola scriptura teaches the
doctrine of a triune god is false.
Actually the unarguable fact ....
Unarguable? Oh come now!
"FACT"?? LOL!
<clip 12 page 6,600 word filibuster again!>
-----
A SCRIPTURAL DOCTRINE OF GOD
Any scriptural "Doctrine of God" must account for every word,
description and explanation He has given to reveal Himself, His Spirit
and His Son to His People; and omit the theories and doctrines of men
which are not supported by or found in His Word.
Before we use the Term "God" to describe our idea and understanding of
Him, we should first define that term "God." When we use the Term "God"
what do we mean?
We use the Term "God" to mean both "Kind of Being" and "Absolute Ruler."
Are these meanings supported in Scripture?
KIND OF BEING
Jesus used the Term "God" to mean "Kind of Being." (John 4:24 KJV) "God
is a Spirit." Some translations omit "a", and some indicate that the
term "is" is inserted as implied. Regardless, Jesus is telling us what
"Kind of Being God IS. "God is a Spirit (Being)."
John uses the Term "God" to acknowledge and confess that Jesus is his
Ruler: "My Lord and my God." John 20:28.
Jesus uses the Term "God" to confirm that His Father is His Ruler: [KJV]
John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, 'I
ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God'."
LORD AND RULER
"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make
thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength
out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies." Ps 110:1-2, 1 Cor
15:24-28
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered
up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall
have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies
under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But
when he saith all things are put under him, it is
manifest that he is excepted which did put all things
under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then
shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put
all things under him, that God may be all in all.
God the Father has given ALL Power and ALL authority to His Son, Jesus
our Messiah, and seated Him on His Throne to Rule. That this event was
prior to the "beginning' is made clear by John, (John 1:1-3) and
acknowledged by Christ. Mat 28:18.
Therefore, as acknowledged by Thomas, Jesus is both our Lord and our
God, and He will reign as our God until His God has put all things in
subjection to Him. Ps 110:1-2. 1 Cor 15:28.
THE SON OF GOD
[KJV] Psalms 2:7-12 "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto
me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Mat 1:18-21, Acts
13:33, Isa 9:6, Heb 1:5, 5:5.
THE SPIRIT OF GOD
[KJV] Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy
Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall
overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of
thee shall be called the Son of God."
(God is Spirit." John 4:24, 1 John 4:2.)
It is clear in the context, when the messenger of God the Father
announces the birth of His Son to the Virgin Mary, that the phrases "The
Holy Ghost", "the power of the Highest" are referring to God the Father.
THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST
[KJV] Philippians 1:19 "For I know that this shall turn to my salvation
through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ."
Romans 8:9, 1 Peter 1:11.
TWO PERSONS
God the Father and the Spirit of God is one single, unique, individual
Being.
The Son of God, Jesus, our Messiah and the Spirit of Christ is one,
single, unique, individual Being.
[KJV] John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the
world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Jesus, the Son, "came forth from the Father." This event is clearly
before the 'beginning', and "Father" and "Son" indicate two, single,
unique, individual Beings.
Jesus, The Son, "came forth from the Father" and was with His Father
before the 'beginning.' John 1:1-3 et al. As His Father is Spirit, so
the Son is Spirit. Jesus the Son of Man, son of Mary, was 'begotten' in
the Flesh in about BC 4 to 3 AD, being the First Child of Mary and the
Only Child Fathered by God the Father.
Therefore, the scripture confirms Jesus is God by at least three
scriptural Truths:
a) Jesus is God by NATURE
Jesus is the Son of God
(Psalms 2:7 Acts 13:33, Isa 9:6, Mat 1:18, Heb 1:5.)
There is no Child which is NOT
the same Nature as the Parent!
God is Eternal Spirit, therefore
God's Son is Eternal Spirit
God is Divine, therefore
God's Son is Divine.
Every essence of God's Being
Is the essence of God's Son
b) Jesus is God by DEFINITION.
God the Father said to His Son:
"The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit thou at my right hand,
until I make thine enemies thy
footstool." Ps 110:1-2
Since the term "God" means
"Omnipotent Ruler", and
Since God His Father made Him Ruler,
Then Christ is God.
c) Jesus is God IN FACT
Jesus demonstrated that He had been
given all authority. Mat 7:29, et al.
Jesus said of Himself;
"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."
Mat 9:6, 28:18
and:
"Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,
even the Father;
when he shall have put down all rule
and all authority and power. 1 Cor 15:24-28.
Now, since it is clear, and undeniable, that God the Father gave His son
both to sit in His (God the Father's) Throne to Rule, and He (God the
Father) gave His Son the ALL Authority and ALL Power to Rule, and
Since it is demonstrated that Jesus, the Son of God DID and DOES
exercise that power and authority, then Jesus is God.
The Word of God states that Jesus is God by NATURE, by DEFINITION, and
IN FACT.
TWO BEINGS, UNIQUE, INDIVIDUAL
Since is is clear, and undeniable, that
1.) Jesus received Authority and Power to rule from His Father, and that,
2.) He (Jesus) will put down all power and authority,
Therefore Jesus the Son, and God the Father, are not the same being.
[KJV] Hebrews 5:8 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the
things which he suffered."
HOW MANY GODS?
[KJV] Exodus 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Isa 41:23.
The Spirit of God clearly acknowledges that there are other "gods."
[KJV] Jeremiah 16:20 "Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are
no gods?
A man may make for himself a false 'god,' which is not 'a God' and
certainly not "God."
[KJV] Galatians 4:8 "Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service
unto them which by nature are no gods."
Again, acknowledging that there are 'other gods'; which those who do not
know "God" worship and serve; and which are not 'a God', and certainly
not "God" (since they did not know God).
However, both the Spirit of God and Jesus acknowledged the existence of
other gods:
[KJV] Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children
of the most High." John 10:34.
The Children of god are "gods." The difference between "other gods which
are no god" and gods who are children of the most High, is that we are
'gods' by being born of the Spirit of God.
ONE GOD
When using the term "God" to mean "Absolute Ruler" we will need to
acknowledge that there can be, and is, only "One Absolute Ruler."
In order to do that we will need to be clear of our definition of the
term "One."
This term "one" may be used to indicate 'unity' in the sense of being
'in agreement', of 'working for a common purpose'; or it may be used to
indicate a singularity, a single unit, numerical "1."
[KJV] Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his
mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." It
is clear in the context that "one" means 'common purpose,' "in
agreement" and "unified;" not singular, or "1."
In the same way, when Jesus said "I and my Father are one," (John 10:30)
His meaning is "of a common purpose," "in agreement" and "unified."
Since "I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me." John 8:28.
[KJV] John 8:29 "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not
left me alone; for I do always those things that please him."
BEFORE God the Father gave ALL POWER AND ALL AUTHORITY to His Son, there
was one God, the Father.
WHILE the Son rules and exercises ALL POWER AND ALL AUTHORITY there is
one God, the Son.
AFTER Jesus the Son puts down ALL POWER AND ALL AUTHORITY there will be
only one God, the Father.
"And when all things shall be subdued unto [Jesus] him, then shall the
Son also himself be subject unto him [The Father] that put all things
under [the Son] him, that God [The Father] may be all in all." 1 Cor 15:28.
[KJV] Mark 12:32 "And the scribe said unto him, Well,
Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God;
and there is none other but he."
[KJV] I Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God,
the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and
one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we
by him."
[KJV] Ephesians 4:6 "One God and Father of all, who is
above all, and through all, and in you all."
[KJV] I Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" Deu 6:4
The Lord our God is not a 'triune god.'
Glenn
His witness
--
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
Note, the site at xprt.net will close 1Sept07 and open as
www.thelittlebookopened.org [Key words:] "The Little Book";
Glenn McClary, servitum, gaedhealic, oldwetdog
.
|
|
|
| User: "Vernono O Here @there" |
|
| Title: Re: The Doctrine of the Trinity is Not Biblical |
07 Aug 2007 09:28:18 PM |
|
|
"Glenn" <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:f9b73q01baa@enews4.newsguy.com...
Carl wrote:
Glenn wrote:
"Mark T" <moi@herethereanderywhere60> wrote in message
news:46b8151e@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"widdle Chucky Stamford" <shell__stamf...@cox.net> wrote:
People who actually submit to the word of God
"I luv my bible!" - Widdle Chucky
The Bible taken in totality and via sola scriptura teaches the Trinity.
<clip 12 page 6,600 word filibuster>
Wrong: The Bible taken in totality and via sola scriptura teaches the
doctrine of a triune god is false.
Actually the unarguable fact ....
Unarguable? Oh come now!
"FACT"?? LOL!
<clip 12 page 6,600 word filibuster again!>
-----
A SCRIPTURAL DOCTRINE OF GOD
Any scriptural "Doctrine of God" must account for every word,
description and explanation He has given to reveal Himself, His Spirit
and His Son to His People; and omit the theories and doctrines of men
which are not supported by or found in His Word.
Before we use the Term "God" to describe our idea and understanding of
Him, we should first define that term "God." When we use the Term "God"
what do we mean?
We use the Term "God" to mean both "Kind of Being" and "Absolute Ruler."
Are these meanings supported in Scripture?
KIND OF BEING
Jesus used the Term "God" to mean "Kind of Being." (John 4:24 KJV) "God
is a Spirit." Some translations omit "a", and some indicate that the
term "is" is inserted as implied. Regardless, Jesus is telling us what
"Kind of Being God IS. "God is a Spirit (Being)."
John uses the Term "God" to acknowledge and confess that Jesus is his
Ruler: "My Lord and my God." John 20:28.
Jesus uses the Term "God" to confirm that His Father is His Ruler: [KJV]
John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, 'I
ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God'."
LORD AND RULER
"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make
thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength
out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies." Ps 110:1-2, 1 Cor
15:24-28
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered
up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall
have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies
under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But
when he saith all things are put under him, it is
manifest that he is excepted which did put all things
under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then
shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put
all things under him, that God may be all in all.
God the Father has given ALL Power and ALL authority to His Son, Jesus
our Messiah, and seated Him on His Throne to Rule. That this event was
prior to the "beginning' is made clear by John, (John 1:1-3) and
acknowledged by Christ. Mat 28:18.
Therefore, as acknowledged by Thomas, Jesus is both our Lord and our
God, and He will reign as our God until His God has put all things in
subjection to Him. Ps 110:1-2. 1 Cor 15:28.
THE SON OF GOD
[KJV] Psalms 2:7-12 "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto
me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Mat 1:18-21, Acts
13:33, Isa 9:6, Heb 1:5, 5:5.
THE SPIRIT OF GOD
[KJV] Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy
Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall
overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of
thee shall be called the Son of God."
(God is Spirit." John 4:24, 1 John 4:2.)
It is clear in the context, when the messenger of God the Father
announces the birth of His Son to the Virgin Mary, that the phrases "The
Holy Ghost", "the power of the Highest" are referring to God the Father.
THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST
[KJV] Philippians 1:19 "For I know that this shall turn to my salvation
through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ."
Romans 8:9, 1 Peter 1:11.
TWO PERSONS
God the Father and the Spirit of God is one single, unique, individual
Being.
The Son of God, Jesus, our Messiah and the Spirit of Christ is one,
single, unique, individual Being.
[KJV] John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the
world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Jesus, the Son, "came forth from the Father." This event is clearly
before the 'beginning', and "Father" and "Son" indicate two, single,
unique, individual Beings.
Jesus, The Son, "came forth from the Father" and was with His Father
before the 'beginning.' John 1:1-3 et al. As His Father is Spirit, so
the Son is Spirit. Jesus the Son of Man, son of Mary, was 'begotten' in
the Flesh in about BC 4 to 3 AD, being the First Child of Mary and the
Only Child Fathered by God the Father.
Therefore, the scripture confirms Jesus is God by at least three
scriptural Truths:
a) Jesus is God by NATURE
Jesus is the Son of God
(Psalms 2:7 Acts 13:33, Isa 9:6, Mat 1:18, Heb 1:5.)
There is no Child which is NOT
the same Nature as the Parent!
God is Eternal Spirit, therefore
God's Son is Eternal Spirit
God is Divine, therefore
God's Son is Divine.
Every essence of God's Being
Is the essence of God's Son
b) Jesus is God by DEFINITION.
God the Father said to His Son:
"The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit thou at my right hand,
until I make thine enemies thy
footstool." Ps 110:1-2
Since the term "God" means
"Omnipotent Ruler", and
Since God His Father made Him Ruler,
Then Christ is God.
c) Jesus is God IN FACT
Jesus demonstrated that He had been
given all authority. Mat 7:29, et al.
Jesus said of Himself;
"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."
Mat 9:6, 28:18
and:
"Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,
even the Father;
when he shall have put down all rule
and all authority and power. 1 Cor 15:24-28.
Now, since it is clear, and undeniable, that God the Father gave His son
both to sit in His (God the Father's) Throne to Rule, and He (God the
Father) gave His Son the ALL Authority and ALL Power to Rule, and
Since it is demonstrated that Jesus, the Son of God DID and DOES
exercise that power and authority, then Jesus is God.
The Word of God states that Jesus is God by NATURE, by DEFINITION, and
IN FACT.
TWO BEINGS, UNIQUE, INDIVIDUAL
Since is is clear, and undeniable, that
1.) Jesus received Authority and Power to rule from His Father, and that,
2.) He (Jesus) will put down all power and authority,
Therefore Jesus the Son, and God the Father, are not the same being.
[KJV] Hebrews 5:8 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the
things which he suffered."
HOW MANY GODS?
[KJV] Exodus 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Isa 41:23.
The Spirit of God clearly acknowledges that there are other "gods."
[KJV] Jeremiah 16:20 "Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are
no gods?
A man may make for himself a false 'god,' which is not 'a God' and
certainly not "God."
[KJV] Galatians 4:8 "Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service
unto them which by nature are no gods."
Again, acknowledging that there are 'other gods'; which those who do not
know "God" worship and serve; and which are not 'a God', and certainly
not "God" (since they did not know God).
However, both the Spirit of God and Jesus acknowledged the existence of
other gods:
[KJV] Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children
of the most High." John 10:34.
The Children of god are "gods." The difference between "other gods which
are no god" and gods who are children of the most High, is that we are
'gods' by being born of the Spirit of God.
ONE GOD
When using the term "God" to mean "Absolute Ruler" we will need to
acknowledge that there can be, and is, only "One Absolute Ruler."
In order to do that we will need to be clear of our definition of the
term "One."
This term "one" may be used to indicate 'unity' in the sense of being
'in agreement', of 'working for a common purpose'; or it may be used to
indicate a singularity, a single unit, numerical "1."
[KJV] Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his
mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." It
is clear in the context that "one" means 'common purpose,' "in
agreement" and "unified;" not singular, or "1."
In the same way, when Jesus said "I and my Father are one," (John 10:30)
His meaning is "of a common purpose," "in agreement" and "unified."
Since "I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me." John
8:28.
[KJV] John 8:29 "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not
left me alone; for I do always those things that please him."
BEFORE God the Father gave ALL POWER AND ALL AUTHORITY to His Son, there
was one God, the Father.
WHILE the Son rules and exercises ALL POWER AND ALL AUTHORITY there is
one God, the Son.
AFTER Jesus the Son puts down ALL POWER AND ALL AUTHORITY there will be
only one God, the Father.
"And when all things shall be subdued unto [Jesus] him, then shall the
Son also himself be subject unto him [The Father] that put all things
under [the Son] him, that God [The Father] may be all in all." 1 Cor
15:28.
[KJV] Mark 12:32 "And the scribe said unto him, Well,
Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God;
and there is none other but he."
[KJV] I Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God,
the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and
one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we
by him."
[KJV] Ephesians 4:6 "One God and Father of all, who is
above all, and through all, and in you all."
[KJV] I Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" Deu 6:4
The Lord our God is not a 'triune god.'
Glenn
His witness
--
An entity that is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent is bye definition,
God. There is ONE GOD.
Three ( representations) fill that definition.
Get off the stupid, really stupid semantics which indicate ONLY a non
Christian attitude.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn" |
|
| Title: Re: The Doctrine of the Trinity is Not Biblical |
07 Aug 2007 10:09:14 PM |
|
|
Vernono O wrote:
"Glenn" <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:f9b73q01baa@enews4.newsguy.com...
Carl wrote:
Glenn wrote:
"Mark T" <moi@herethereanderywhere60> wrote in message
news:46b8151e@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
"widdle Chucky Stamford" <shell__stamf...@cox.net> wrote:
People who actually submit to the word of God
"I luv my bible!" - Widdle Chucky
The Bible taken in totality and via sola scriptura teaches the Trinity.
<clip 12 page 6,600 word filibuster>
Wrong: The Bible taken in totality and via sola scriptura teaches the
doctrine of a triune god is false.
Actually the unarguable fact ....
Unarguable? Oh come now!
"FACT"?? LOL!
<clip 12 page 6,600 word filibuster again!>
-----
A SCRIPTURAL DOCTRINE OF GOD
Any scriptural "Doctrine of God" must account for every word,
description and explanation He has given to reveal Himself, His Spirit
and His Son to His People; and omit the theories and doctrines of men
which are not supported by or found in His Word.
Before we use the Term "God" to describe our idea and understanding of
Him, we should first define that term "God." When we use the Term "God"
what do we mean?
We use the Term "God" to mean both "Kind of Being" and "Absolute Ruler."
Are these meanings supported in Scripture?
KIND OF BEING
Jesus used the Term "God" to mean "Kind of Being." (John 4:24 KJV) "God
is a Spirit." Some translations omit "a", and some indicate that the
term "is" is inserted as implied. Regardless, Jesus is telling us what
"Kind of Being God IS. "God is a Spirit (Being)."
John uses the Term "God" to acknowledge and confess that Jesus is his
Ruler: "My Lord and my God." John 20:28.
Jesus uses the Term "God" to confirm that His Father is His Ruler: [KJV]
John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, 'I
ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God'."
LORD AND RULER
"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make
thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength
out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies." Ps 110:1-2, 1 Cor
15:24-28
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered
up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall
have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies
under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But
when he saith all things are put under him, it is
manifest that he is excepted which did put all things
under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then
shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put
all things under him, that God may be all in all.
God the Father has given ALL Power and ALL authority to His Son, Jesus
our Messiah, and seated Him on His Throne to Rule. That this event was
prior to the "beginning' is made clear by John, (John 1:1-3) and
acknowledged by Christ. Mat 28:18.
Therefore, as acknowledged by Thomas, Jesus is both our Lord and our
God, and He will reign as our God until His God has put all things in
subjection to Him. Ps 110:1-2. 1 Cor 15:28.
THE SON OF GOD
[KJV] Psalms 2:7-12 "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto
me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Mat 1:18-21, Acts
13:33, Isa 9:6, Heb 1:5, 5:5.
THE SPIRIT OF GOD
[KJV] Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy
Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall
overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of
thee shall be called the Son of God."
(God is Spirit." John 4:24, 1 John 4:2.)
It is clear in the context, when the messenger of God the Father
announces the birth of His Son to the Virgin Mary, that the phrases "The
Holy Ghost", "the power of the Highest" are referring to God the Father.
THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST
[KJV] Philippians 1:19 "For I know that this shall turn to my salvation
through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ."
Romans 8:9, 1 Peter 1:11.
TWO PERSONS
God the Father and the Spirit of God is one single, unique, individual
Being.
The Son of God, Jesus, our Messiah and the Spirit of Christ is one,
single, unique, individual Being.
[KJV] John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the
world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Jesus, the Son, "came forth from the Father." This event is clearly
before the 'beginning', and "Father" and "Son" indicate two, single,
unique, individual Beings.
Jesus, The Son, "came forth from the Father" and was with His Father
before the 'beginning.' John 1:1-3 et al. As His Father is Spirit, so
the Son is Spirit. Jesus the Son of Man, son of Mary, was 'begotten' in
the Flesh in about BC 4 to 3 AD, being the First Child of Mary and the
Only Child Fathered by God the Father.
Therefore, the scripture confirms Jesus is God by at least three
scriptural Truths:
a) Jesus is God by NATURE
Jesus is the Son of God
(Psalms 2:7 Acts 13:33, Isa 9:6, Mat 1:18, Heb 1:5.)
There is no Child which is NOT
the same Nature as the Parent!
God is Eternal Spirit, therefore
God's Son is Eternal Spirit
God is Divine, therefore
God's Son is Divine.
Every essence of God's Being
Is the essence of God's Son
b) Jesus is God by DEFINITION.
God the Father said to His Son:
"The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit thou at my right hand,
until I make thine enemies thy
footstool." Ps 110:1-2
Since the term "God" means
"Omnipotent Ruler", and
Since God His Father made Him Ruler,
Then Christ is God.
c) Jesus is God IN FACT
Jesus demonstrated that He had been
given all authority. Mat 7:29, et al.
Jesus said of Himself;
"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."
Mat 9:6, 28:18
and:
"Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,
even the Father;
when he shall have put down all rule
and all authority and power. 1 Cor 15:24-28.
Now, since it is clear, and undeniable, that God the Father gave His son
both to sit in His (God the Father's) Throne to Rule, and He (God the
Father) gave His Son the ALL Authority and ALL Power to Rule, and
Since it is demonstrated that Jesus, the Son of God DID and DOES
exercise that power and authority, then Jesus is God.
The Word of God states that Jesus is God by NATURE, by DEFINITION, and
IN FACT.
TWO BEINGS, UNIQUE, INDIVIDUAL
Since is is clear, and undeniable, that
1.) Jesus received Authority and Power to rule from His Father, and that,
2.) He (Jesus) will put down all power and authority,
Therefore Jesus the Son, and God the Father, are not the same being.
[KJV] Hebrews 5:8 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the
things which he suffered."
HOW MANY GODS?
[KJV] Exodus 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Isa 41:23.
The Spirit of God clearly acknowledges that there are other "gods."
[KJV] Jeremiah 16:20 "Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are
no gods?
A man may make for himself a false 'god,' which is not 'a God' and
certainly not "God."
[KJV] Galatians 4:8 "Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service
unto them which by nature are no gods."
Again, acknowledging that there are 'other gods'; which those who do not
know "God" worship and serve; and which are not 'a God', and certainly
not "God" (since they did not know God).
However, both the Spirit of God and Jesus acknowledged the existence of
other gods:
[KJV] Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children
of the most High." John 10:34.
The Children of god are "gods." The difference between "other gods which
are no god" and gods who are children of the most High, is that we are
'gods' by being born of the Spirit of God.
ONE GOD
When using the term "God" to mean "Absolute Ruler" we will need to
acknowledge that there can be, and is, only "One Absolute Ruler."
In order to do that we will need to be clear of our definition of the
term "One."
This term "one" may be used to indicate 'unity' in the sense of being
'in agreement', of 'working for a common purpose'; or it may be used to
indicate a singularity, a single unit, numerical "1."
[KJV] Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his
mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." It
is clear in the context that "one" means 'common purpose,' "in
agreement" and "unified;" not singular, or "1."
In the same way, when Jesus said "I and my Father are one," (John 10:30)
His meaning is "of a common purpose," "in agreement" and "unified."
Since "I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me." John
8:28.
[KJV] John 8:29 "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not
left me alone; for I do always those things that please him."
BEFORE God the Father gave ALL POWER AND ALL AUTHORITY to His Son, there
was one God, the Father.
WHILE the Son rules and exercises ALL POWER AND ALL AUTHORITY there is
one God, the Son.
AFTER Jesus the Son puts down ALL POWER AND ALL AUTHORITY there will be
only one God, the Father.
"And when all things shall be subdued unto [Jesus] him, then shall the
Son also himself be subject unto him [The Father] that put all things
under [the Son] him, that God [The Father] may be all in all." 1 Cor
15:28.
[KJV] Mark 12:32 "And the scribe said unto him, Well,
Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God;
and there is none other but he."
[KJV] I Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God,
the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and
one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we
by him."
[KJV] Ephesians 4:6 "One God and Father of all, who is
above all, and through all, and in you all."
[KJV] I Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" Deu 6:4
The Lord our God is not a 'triune god.'
An entity that is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent is bye definition,
God. There is ONE GOD.
Three ( representations) fill that definition.
Speaking of 'stupid," perhaps you need to reconsider your belief in
trinity doctrine. Consider the FACT that is was one of the First
Judgments/rulings of the 'religius establishment' after it had been
taken over py the pagan man-god Constantine in AD 325 then imposed upon
Christianity by Threat of punishment in 388.
Get off the stupid, really stupid semantics which indicate ONLY a non
Christian attitude.
"Semantics"? You man like the entire doctrine of three persons in one being?
Glenn
His witness
--
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
Note, the site at xprt.net will close 1Sept07 and open as
www.thelittlebookopened.org [Key words:] "The Little Book";
Glenn McClary, servitum, gaedhealic, oldwetdog
.
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| User: "Vernono O Here @there" |
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| Title: Re: The Doctrine of the Trinity is Not Biblical |
07 Aug 2007 10:15:49 PM |
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|
"Glenn" <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:f9bc4s0i36@enews2.newsguy.com...
Vernono O wrote:
Correct, only that The Father, the spirit and the son are omnipotent,
omnipresent ant omniscient.
AND????
Are any of the three above other than as defined?
There is one God.
Disagree? If so, you are neither Christian or Jew.
.
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| User: "Glenn" |
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| Title: Re: The Doctrine of the Trinity is Not Biblical |
07 Aug 2007 10:30:21 PM |
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Vernono O wrote:
"Glenn" <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:f9bc4s0i36@enews2.newsguy.com...
Vernono O wrote:
Correct, only that The Father, the spirit and the son are omnipotent,
omnipresent ant omniscient.
AND????
Are any of the three above other than as defined?
There is one God.
Disagree? If so, you are neither Christian or Jew.
Your conclusions are based on delusion, and wrong too.
Glenn
His witness
--
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
Note, the site at xprt.net will close 1Sept07 and open as
www.thelittlebookopened.org [Key words:] "The Little Book";
Glenn McClary, servitum, gaedhealic, oldwetdog
.
|
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| User: "Vernono O Here @there" |
|
| Title: Re: The Doctrine of the Trinity is Not Biblical |
07 Aug 2007 10:57:43 PM |
|
|
"Glenn" <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:f9bdce118rg@enews1.newsguy.com...
Vernono O wrote:
"Glenn" <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:f9bc4s0i36@enews2.newsguy.com...
Vernono O wrote:
Correct, only that The Father, the spirit and the son are omnipotent,
omnipresent ant omniscient.
AND????
Are any of the three above other than as defined?
There is one God.
Disagree? If so, you are neither Christian or Jew.
Your conclusions are based on delusion, and wrong too.
Are any of the three as defined?
.
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| User: "Glenn" |
|
| Title: Re: The Doctrine of the Trinity is Not Biblical |
07 Aug 2007 11:58:42 PM |
|
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Vernono O wrote:
"Glenn" <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:f9bdce118rg@enews1.newsguy.com...
Vernono O wrote:
"Glenn" <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:f9bc4s0i36@enews2.newsguy.com...
Vernono O wrote:
Correct, only that The Father, the spirit and the son are omnipotent,
omnipresent ant omniscient.
AND????
Are any of the three above other than as defined?
There is one God.
Disagree? If so, you are neither Christian or Jew.
Your conclusions are based on delusion, and wrong too.
Are any of the three as defined?
Your definition of "One" is based on trinity doctrine, not scripture.
Your definition of "God" is based on trinity doctrine, not scripture.
It is your conclusion that is false.
First, the Spirit of God IS God, not a 'person' of a triune Being.
Second, There is no Child of any being which is not the same Essence and
Nature as the Parent: Therefore, Jesus the Son of God is the same
Essence and Nature of His Father, God.
God the Father is Eternal Spirit, therefore the Son is Eternal Spirit.
God the Father is Omnipotent, therefore the Son is Omnipotent.
God the Father is (Being Type) Deity, therefore the Son of God is (being
type) Deity.
God the Father gave His Son ALL Power and ALL authority and told Him to
reign: Therefore the Son is (Title of Authority) God. Ps 110:1-2, Mt
24:28, 1 Cor 15:24-28.
A Scriptural Doctrine of God
http://tinyurl.com/2lw6ev
Glenn
His witness
--
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
Note, the site at xprt.net will close 1Sept07 and open as
www.thelittlebookopened.org [Key words:] "The Little Book";
Glenn McClary, servitum, gaedhealic, oldwetdog
.
|
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| User: "Vernono O Here @there" |
|
| Title: Re: The Doctrine of the Trinity is Not Biblical |
08 Aug 2007 10:25:48 AM |
|
|
"Glenn" <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:f9bii40o2s@enews2.newsguy.com...
Vernono O wrote:
"Glenn" <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:f9bdce118rg@enews1.newsguy.com...
Vernono O wrote:
"Glenn" <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:f9bc4s0i36@enews2.newsguy.com...
Vernono O wrote:
Correct, only that The Father, the spirit and the son are omnipotent,
omnipresent ant omniscient.
AND????
Are any of the three above other than as defined?
There is one God.
Disagree? If so, you are neither Christian or Jew.
Your conclusions are based on delusion, and wrong too.
Are any of the three as | | | | | | | | | | |
