| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Carl" |
| Date: |
19 Dec 2007 12:52:29 AM |
| Object: |
The Great Battle |
Spiritual warfare is an ongoing event in Christianity. It's occuring every
moment of every day whether we Christians like it or not. God told us to
take the whole armor of God and we should equip ourselves with that armor.
J.C. Ryle wrote about this very subject and it is an interesting read since
he was very passionate on the Biblical topic. I hope you may find it
interesting and enlightening as well.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
THE GREAT BATTLE
by J.C. Ryle
All men ought to love peace. War is an immense evil, though it is a
necessary evil sometimes. Battles are bloody and distressing events,
though sometimes nations cannot maintain their rights without them. But all
men ought to love peace. All ought to pray for a quiet life.
All this is very true, and yet there is one war which it is a positive
duty to carry on; there is one battle which we ought to be always fighting.
The battle I speak of is the battle against the world, the flesh, and the
devil. With these enemies we never ought to be at peace; from this warfare
no man ought ever to seek to be discharged, while he is alive.
Reader, give me your attention for a few minutes, and I will tell you
something about the great battle.
Every professing Christian is the soldier of Christ. He is bound by his
baptism to fight Christ's battle against sin, the world, and the devil. The
man that does not do this, breaks his vow: he is a spiritual defaulter; he
does not fulfil the engagement made for him. The man that does not do this,
is practically renouncing his Christianity. The very fact that he belongs to
a Church, attends a Christian place of worship, and calls himself a
Christian, is a public declaration that he desires to be reckoned a soldier
of Jesus Christ.
Armour is provided for the professing Christian, if he will only use it.
"Take unto you," says Paul to the Ephesians, "the whole armour of God."
"Stand, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the
breast-plate of righteousness." "Take the helmet of salvation, and the
sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God." "Above all, take the shield
of faith" (Ephes. vi. 13-17). And not least, the professing Christian has
the best of leaders, -Jesus the Captain of salvation, through whom he may
be more than conqueror; the best of provisions,-the bread and water of life;
and the best of pay promised to him,-an eternal weight of glory.
All these are ancient things. I will not be drawn off to dwell on them
now.
The one point I want to impress on your soul just now is this,-that if
you want to be saved, you must not only be a soldier, but a victorious
soldier. You must not only profess to fight on Christ's side against sin,
the world, and the devil, but you must actually fight and overcome.
Now this is one grand distinguishing mark of true Christians. Other men
perhaps like to be numbered in the ranks of Christ's army; other men may
have lazy wishes, and languid desires after the crown of glory: but it is
the true Christian alone who does the work of a soldier. He alone fairly
meets the enemies of his soul, really fights with them, and in that fight
overcomes them.
Reader, one great lesson I wish you to learn this day is this,-that if
you would prove you are born again and going to heaven, you must be a
victorious soldier of Christ. If you would make it clear that you have any
title to Christ's precious promises, you must fight the good fight in
Christ's cause, and in that fight you must conquer.
Victory is the only satisfactory evidence that you have a saving
religion. You like good sermons, perhaps; you respect the Bible, and read
it occasionally; you say your prayers night and morning; you have family
prayers, and give to religious societies. I thank God for this: it is
all very good. But how goes the battle? How does the great conflict go on
all this time? Are you overcoming the love of the world and the fear of
man? Are you overcoming the passions, tempers, and lusts of your own heart?
Are you resisting the devil, and making him flee from you? How is it in
this matter? My dear brother or sister, you must either rule or serve sin,
and the devil, and the world. There is no middle course. You must either
conquer or be lost.
I know well it is a hard battle that you have to fight, and I want you
to know it too. You must fight the good fight of faith, and endure
hardships, if you would lay hold of eternal life; you must make up your mind
to a daily struggle, if you would reach heaven. There may be short roads to
heaven invented by man; but ancient Christianity,-the good old way,-is the
way of the cross: the way of conflict. Sin, the world, and the devil must
be actually mortified, resisted, and overcome.
This is the road that saints of old have trodden in, and left their
record on high.
When Moses refused the pleasures of sin in Egypt, and chose affliction
with the people of God,-this was overcoming: he overcame the love of
pleasure.
When Micaiah refused to prophesy smooth things to king Ahab, though
he knew he would be persecuted if he spoke the truth,-this was overcoming:
he overcame the love of ease.
When Daniel refused to give up praying, though he knew the den of lions
was prepared for him,-this was overcoming: he overcame the fear of death.
When Matthew rose from the receipt of custom at our Lord's bidding, left
all and followed Him,-this was overcoming: he overcame the love of money.
When Peter and John stood up boldly before the Council and said, "We
cannot but speak the things we have seen and heard"-this was overcoming:
they overcame the fear of man.
When Saul the Pharisee gave up all his prospects of preferment among the
Jews, and preached that Jesus whom he had once persecuted,-this was
overcoming: he overcame the love of man's praise.
Reader, the same kind of thing which these men did you must also do, if
you would be saved. They were men of like passions with yourself, and yet
they overcame: they had as many trials as any you can possibly have, and yet
they overcame. They fought, they wrestled, they struggled: you must do the
same.
What was the secret of their victory? -their faith. They believed on
Jesus, and believing were made strong. They believed on Jesus, and believing
were held up. In all their battles they kept their eyes on Jesus, and He
never left them or forsook them. They overcame by the blood of the Lamb,
and the word of His testimony, and so may you.
Reader, I set these truths before you: I ask you to lay them to heart.
Resolve, by the grace of God, to be an OVERCOMING Christian.
I do fear much for many professing Christians: I see no sign of fighting
in them, much less of victory; they never strike one stroke on the side of
Christ. They are at peace with His enemies: they have no quarrel with sin.
Reader, I warn you this is not Christianity: this is not the way to heaven.
Men and women who hear the Gospel regularly, I often fear much for you.
I fear lest you become so familiar with the sounds of its doctrines, that
insensibly you become dead to its power. I fear lest your religion should
sink down into a little vague talk about your own weakness and corruption,
and a few sentimental expressions about Christ, while real practical
fighting on Christ's side is altogether neglected. Oh, beware of this state
of mind! "Be doers of the Word, and not hearers only." No victory,-no
crown! Fight and overcome!
Young men and women, and especially those who have been brought up in
religious families, I fear much for you. I fear lest you get a habit of
giving way to every temptation. I fear lest you be afraid of saying "No!"
to the world and the devil,-and when sinners entice you, think it least
trouble to consent. Beware, I do beseech you, of giving way. Every
concession will make you weaker. Go into the world resolved to fight
Christ's battle,-and fight your way on.
Believers in the Lord Jesus, of every Church and rank in life, I feel
much for you. I know your course is hard: I know it is a sore battle you
have to fight; I know you are often tempted to say, "It is of no use, and to
lay down your arms altogether."
Cheer up, dear brethren and sisters: take comfort, I entreat you; look
at the bright side of your position. Be encouraged to fight on: the time is
short, the Lord is at hand, the night is far spent. Millions as weak as you
have fought the same fight; not one of all those millions has been finally
led captive by Satan. Mighty are your enemies,-but the Captain of your
salvation is mightier still: His arm, His grace, and His Spirit shall hold
you up. Cheer up: be not cast down.
What though you lose a battle or two? You shall not lose all. What
though you faint sometimes? You shall not be quite cast down. What though
you fall seven times? You shall not be destroyed. Watch against sin, and
sin shall not have dominion over you. Resist the devil, and he shall flee
from you. Come out boldly from the world and the world shall be obliged to
let you go. You shall find yourselves in the end more than conquerors: you
shall overcome.
Reader, let me draw from the whole subject a few words of application,
and then I have done.
For one thing, let me warn all formalists and self-righteous people to
take heed that they are not deceived. You fancy you will go to heaven
because you go regularly to church; you indulge an expectation of eternal
life, because you are always at the Lord's table, and are never missing in
your pew. But where is your repentance? Where is your faith? Where are
your evidences of a new heart? Where is the work of the Spirit? Where are
the proofs that you are fighting the great battle? Oh, formal Christian,
consider these questions! Tremble: tremble, and repent.
For another thing, let me warn all careless members of Churches to
beware lest they trifle their souls into hell. You live on year after year
as if there was no battle to be fought with sin, the world, and the devil;
you pass through life a smiling, laughing, gentleman-like or ladylike
person, and behave as if there was no devil, no heaven, and no hell. Oh,
careless Churchman, or careless Dissenter, careless Episcopalian, careless
Presbyterian, careless Independent, careless Baptist, awake and see eternal
realities in their true light! Awake, and put on the armour of God! Awake,
and fight hard for life! Tremble: tremble, and repent.
Reader, the great battle must be fought by all who want to be saved.
And more than this, it must be won.
.
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| User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" |
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| Title: Re: The Great Battle |
27 Dec 2007 06:52:02 PM |
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"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fkaf3e$e30$1@news.utelfla.com...
Spiritual warfare is an ongoing event in Christianity. It's occuring every
moment of every day whether we Christians like it or not. God told us to
take the whole armor of God and we should equip ourselves with that armor.
your ALL-LOVING god sure does like war and killing people doesn't he?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Great Battle |
27 Dec 2007 07:27:57 PM |
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On Dec 27, 7:52=A0pm, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <kill...@killgod.com>
wrote:
your ALL-LOVING god sure does like war and killing people doesn't he?
Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
Ps 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and
their
ways are vile; there is no one who does good. (NIV)
[Atheists, whether in opinion or practice, are the greatest fools in
the
world. Those that do not seek God do not understand; they are like
brute-beasts that have no understanding; for man is distinguished from
the
brutes, not so much by the powers of reason as by a capacity for
religion.
The workers of iniquity, whatever they pretend to, have no knowledge;
those
may truly be said to know nothing that do not know God, v. 4. (from
Matthew
Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition)]
Prov 6:16-17
There are six things the Lord hates...a lying tongue... (NIV)
Prov 10:18
He who conceals his hatred has lying lips, and whoever spreads slander
is a
fool. (NIV)
Prov 10:23
A fool finds pleasure in evil conduct, but a man of understanding
delights
in wisdom. (NIV)
Prov 12:16
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an
insult.
(NIV)
Prov 12:22
The Lord detests lying lips, but he delights in men who are truthful.
(NIV)
Prov 13:16
Every prudent man acts out of knowledge, but a fool exposes his folly.
(NIV)
Prov 14:8
The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways, but the
folly of
fools is deception. (NIV)
Prov 14:16
A wise man fears the Lord and shuns evil, but a fool is hotheaded and
reckless. (NIV)
Prov 14:24
The wealth of the wise is their crown, but the folly of fools yields
folly.
(NIV)
Prov 15:2
The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool
gushes
folly. (NIV)
Prov 15:7
The lips of the wise spread knowledge; not so the hearts of fools.
(NIV)
Prov 18:2
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his
own
opinions. (NIV)
Prov 23:9
Do not speak to a fool, for he will scorn the wisdom of your words.
(NIV)
Prov 26:4
Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him
yourself. (NIV)
Prov 26:11
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. (NIV)
Prov 27:3
Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier
than
both. (NIV)
Prov 27:22
Though you grind a fool in a mortar, grinding him like grain with a
pestle,
you will not remove his folly from him. (NIV)
Eccl 7:5
It is better to heed a wise man's rebuke than to listen to the song
of
fools. (NIV)
Eccl 7:6
Like the crackling of thorns under the pot, so is the laughter of
fools.
This too is meaningless. (NIV)
Eccl 7:9
Do not be quickly provoked in your spirit, for anger resides in the
lap of
fools. (NIV)
Rom 1:22
Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools... (NIV)
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
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| User: "rogue" |
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| Title: Re: The Great Battle |
27 Dec 2007 09:46:50 PM |
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On Dec 28, 5:27 am, wrote:
On Dec 27, 7:52 pm, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <kill...@killgod.com>
wrote:
your ALL-LOVING god sure does like war and killing people doesn't he?
CARL
Prov 6:16-17
There are six things the Lord hates...a lying tongue... (NIV)
JERRY
Then you can count on going straight to hell, Carl, for lying about
needing to believe in the Trinity to be saved when the Bible says no
such thing.
CARL
Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
JERRY
Yep, we obviously don't have a clue, do we, Carl? I mean, it's
obvious we're not smart like you and claim that you have to believe
in
the Trinity to be saved, despite the fact that there isn't a single
verse in the bible that supports that claim.
And actually, you don't have to prove or disprove the existence of
God. The burden of proof of God's existence is on the theist anyway,
since they are claiming the supernatural.
What CAN be proven is the factual accuracy of the bible. If the
bible
fails to be historically accurate, it's very likely the bible isn't
true, correct? At least, on history it's not true if you can prove
it's not historically accurate.
And if the bible claims prophecies that obviously could be proven to
have not happened, then the bible would fail on prophecy, correct? I
mean, that's another obvious given.
Finally, if you can show that the different books of the bible
contradict each other when discussing the same event, that would be
pretty accurate that the bible is contradictory, correct?
Now, if the bible fails to be historically accurate, fails on
prophecy
and contradicts itself, that would also be a good indicator that
either the God of the bible didn't exist, or that he lacks the power
to protect his word, or that he doesn't really give a rat's ***** about
mankind at all, would that be a correct conclusion, Carl?
We already know from 1 Samuel 15 that the bible contradicts itself in
the same chapter, where we both see that God "repents" making Saul
king and later in the same chapter says that God never repents.
We also know from 1 Samuel 15 that God isn't omniscient, since he
repents making Saul king, and if he were really omniscient to the
level claimed, that he sees all, past, present and future and that he
knows the falling of the sparrow, he would have already known when he
made Saul king that Saul would disobey him later, therefore why
repent
when he already knew it would happen when he appointed Saul?
We know from the failure of the destruction of the island city of
Tyre
that the prophecy about the destruction of Tyre failed because the
description of the coming devastation doesn't match up to what
happened (Like, Nebs failed to take the city at all, and three
chapters later even Ezekiel admits that Nebs failed and the prophecy
didn't happen)
And, we know from the four gospel accounts of the Resurrection
Morning
that the writers couldn't even get their stories straight a little
bit
(who first saw the risen Jesus? Mary in three of the accounts and
Not
Mary in the fourth - do your own research Carl. I have.).
So, those facts about the bible, from the text, indicates that the
bible isn't true. Therefore, either the god of the bible doesn't
exist, or he doesn't have the power to protect his word (or,
considering Tyre, to make his prophecies come true) or the book is
just mankind dithering about gods or godlike beings that don't really
care about mankind at all, if they even existed. Of course, they
*could* have been aliens from other worlds. That's just as likely as
the claim that they were gods, right Carl? ;-)
And, all of this is available to any person who bothers to read the
bible instead of reading the writings of other believers and
accepting
their stories hook, line and sinker, then copying and pasting them
into newsgroups to share the ignorance, right Carl?
So, the bible says that those who say "there is no god" are fools,
but
that's the same bible that can be *proven* NOT to be the word of any
God, Carl. Therefore, since its just the rantings of incompetent,
superstitious shepherds from 2000 years ago, who cares what they say,
right Carl? ;-)
CARL
All of those so-called contradictions have long since been explained.
Mostly it's due to lack of scriptural understanding or willful ignorance.
JERRY
On who's part? The apologetics I have read indicate that it's the
theist who is making up simplistic explanations that don't fit the
situation (Like McDowall's claims about Tyre, for example). I can
easily shred the explanations of nearly all the apologists I have read
(including the CARM site that Bible John was so enamored with and JP
Holding's (AKA Robert Turkel, who is not a scholar but a prison
librarian and who fancies himself the Rush Limbaugh of the Apologetic
set).
In fact, with very little research on the web you can see where
Farrell Till destroys Turkel in a debate on Yahweh's Failed Land
Promise.
CARL
I suggest Christians read the following books which have
answered all of those false contradictions and more:
Hard Sayings of the Bible by Walter C. Kaiser (Editor), Peter H.
Davids (Contributor), F. F. Bruce (Contributor)
Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties by Gleason Archer
JERRY
I don't really have access to books here in Afghanistan, but I've read
some of Gleason Archer's work several years ago and was less than
impressed with him.
Those two are excellent.
Others worth reading and studying:
Difficulties in the Bible by R. A. Torrey
1001 Bible Questions Answered by William L. Pettingill, R. A. Torrey
The Complete Book of Bible Answers by Ron Rhodes
When Critics Ask by Norman Geisler
Exegetical Fallacies by D. A. Carson
Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible by John W. Haley
JERRY
I saw the video clips of Farrell Till trashing Geisler and I have to
say, he's less than impressive as well.
Also some websites that answer many of them and addresses why critics
and skeptics keep bringing the same old tired ones up again even
though they've been answered:
http://www.carm.org/bible_difficulties.htm
JERRY
This one only goes to Deuteronomy. Not helpful in the 1 Samuel 15
contradiction. And I have to say, your use of the CARM site, which I
analyzed for Bible John, really doesn't help you much. The man is
intellectually dishonest with his writings and easily refuted. Here
is a quick example of what he writes regarding the contradictory
Creation accounts in Genesis 1 & 2:
" * Genesis 1
- Day one - heavens and earth are created. "Let there be
light." Day and Night.
- Day two - Atmospheric waters separated from earth waters.
- Day three - Land appears separating the seas. Vegetation is
made.
- Day four - Sun, moon, stars are made.
- Day five - Sea life and birds are made.
- Day six - Land animals, creeping things, and man (male and
female) are made.
* Genesis 2
States heaven and earth were created. no plant yet on earth, no
rain yet, no man. but, a mist rose watering the surface of the
ground. Then the Lord formed man from dust of the ground and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life. Then God made Eve.
There is no contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2. Genesis 1 is
a detailed explanation of the six days of creation, day by day.
Genesis two is a recap and a more detailed explanation of the sixth
day, the day that Adam and Eve were made. The recap is stated in Gen.
2:4, "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were
created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven." Then,
Moses goes on to detail the creation of Adam and Eve as is seen in
verses 7 thru 24 of Gen. 2. Proof that it is not a creative account
is found in the fact that animals aren't even mentioned until after
the creation of Adam. Why? Probably because their purpose was
designated by Adam. They didn't need to be mentioned until after Adam
was created."
JERRY
What Glenn didn't notice or was intellectually dishonest enough to
intentionally leave out, is that the contradiction is on the *order*
of
creation. In Genesis 1, we see that the whales and all the creatures
of the seas were created on the 5th day, as well as all of the fowl of
the air. Man was created later, on the sixth day.
In Genesis 2, Man was created and THEN all the beasts of the field and
the fowl of the air. Problem was, we saw in the first chapter that
all the fowl of the air were already created BEFORE man was created.
In fact, Glenn's statement: "Proof that it is not a creative account
is found in the fact that animals aren't even mentioned until after
the creation of Adam. Why? Probably because their purpose was
designated by Adam. They didn't need to be mentioned until after Adam
was created."
If they didn't need to be mentioned until after After was created, why
were they mentioned first in the first chapter? Glenn's statement is
actually supportive of the theory that chapter 1 and chapter 2 were
written by two different authors and put together after the fact,
though I'm sure he didn't intend it that way.
CARL
http://www.carm.org/diff/Bible_contradictions.htm
This one doesn't address anything in particular but has this
interesting statement:
"The Originals are Inspired, not the copies."
How does he know? There ARE no originals. Only copies of copies of
copies and the copies show us that the bible has changed over the
years. We can also tell by studying the bible, Carl, that the bible
contains contradictions (showing it's neither reflective of God's
perfection, nor is it protected by God), that it's historically
inaccurate and that it contains failed prophecies.
CARL
http://www.tektonics.org/
JERRY
Turkel, as I mentioned earlier, is a joke. He fancies himself like
Limbaugh and spends his time in a debate attacking and making fun of
his opponent and not addressing the points made. Instead he will
throw out a statement that he can't support and go on with the
attacks. It's the reason he does so little debating, as a
knowledgeable opponent shows that he's unable to address the issues
under debate. He prefers a closed studio, much like his hero, and
wants to screen calls. He "debates" someone by taking their published
work, making fun of it and not giving a chance to the author to rebut
what Turkel has stated. Only the non-discerning reader takes him
seriously. (watching Till kick his ***** around the internet, and
Turkel's growing sputters of outrage were priceless.)
CARL
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/
Doesn't address contradictions/failed prophecies/historical
inaccuracies of the bible except in a very general "the bible is
always right" manner.
In fact, there are a number of better apologetics sites out there.
Heck, even Turkel's very poor attempts are better than christian-
thinktank.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Great Battle |
27 Dec 2007 11:16:36 PM |
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Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
Ps 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and
their ways are vile; there is no one who does good. (NIV)
[Atheists, whether in opinion or practice, are the greatest fools in
the world. Those that do not seek God do not understand; they are like
brute-beasts that have no understanding; for man is distinguished from
the brutes, not so much by the powers of reason as by a capacity for
religion. The workers of iniquity, whatever they pretend to, have no
knowledge; those may truly be said to know nothing that do not know
God, v. 4. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New
Modern Edition)]
Prov 6:16-17
There are six things the Lord hates...a lying tongue... (NIV)
Prov 10:18
He who conceals his hatred has lying lips, and whoever spreads slander
is a fool. (NIV)
Prov 10:23
A fool finds pleasure in evil conduct, but a man of understanding
delights in wisdom. (NIV)
Prov 12:16
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an
insult. (NIV)
Prov 12:22
The Lord detests lying lips, but he delights in men who are truthful.
(NIV)
Prov 13:16
Every prudent man acts out of knowledge, but a fool exposes his folly.
(NIV)
Prov 14:8
The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways, but the
folly of fools is deception. (NIV)
Prov 14:16
A wise man fears the Lord and shuns evil, but a fool is hotheaded and
reckless. (NIV)
Prov 14:24
The wealth of the wise is their crown, but the folly of fools yields
folly. (NIV)
Prov 15:2
The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool
gushes folly. (NIV)
Prov 15:7
The lips of the wise spread knowledge; not so the hearts of fools.
(NIV)
Prov 18:2
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his
own opinions. (NIV)
Prov 23:9
Do not speak to a fool, for he will scorn the wisdom of your words.
(NIV)
Prov 26:4
Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him
yourself. (NIV)
Prov 26:11
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. (NIV)
Prov 27:3
Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier
than both. (NIV)
Prov 27:22
Though you grind a fool in a mortar, grinding him like grain with a
pestle, you will not remove his folly from him. (NIV)
Eccl 7:5
It is better to heed a wise man's rebuke than to listen to the song of
fools. (NIV)
Eccl 7:6
Like the crackling of thorns under the pot, so is the laughter of
fools. This too is meaningless. (NIV)
Eccl 7:9
Do not be quickly provoked in your spirit, for anger resides in the
lap of fools. (NIV)
Rom 1:22
Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools... (NIV)
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
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| User: "rogue" |
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| Title: Re: The Great Battle |
28 Dec 2007 03:24:34 AM |
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On Dec 28, 9:16 am, wrote:
CARL
Prov 6:16-17
There are six things the Lord hates...a lying tongue... (NIV)
JERRY
Then you can count on going straight to hell, Carl, for lying about
needing to believe in the Trinity to be saved when the Bible says no
such thing.
CARL
Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
JERRY
Yep, we obviously don't have a clue, do we, Carl? I mean, it's
obvious we're not smart like you and claim that you have to believe
in
the Trinity to be saved, despite the fact that there isn't a single
verse in the bible that supports that claim.
And actually, you don't have to prove or disprove the existence of
God. The burden of proof of God's existence is on the theist anyway,
since they are claiming the supernatural.
What CAN be proven is the factual accuracy of the bible. If the
bible
fails to be historically accurate, it's very likely the bible isn't
true, correct? At least, on history it's not true if you can prove
it's not historically accurate.
And if the bible claims prophecies that obviously could be proven to
have not happened, then the bible would fail on prophecy, correct? I
mean, that's another obvious given.
Finally, if you can show that the different books of the bible
contradict each other when discussing the same event, that would be
pretty accurate that the bible is contradictory, correct?
Now, if the bible fails to be historically accurate, fails on
prophecy
and contradicts itself, that would also be a good indicator that
either the God of the bible didn't exist, or that he lacks the power
to protect his word, or that he doesn't really give a rat's ***** about
mankind at all, would that be a correct conclusion, Carl?
We already know from 1 Samuel 15 that the bible contradicts itself in
the same chapter, where we both see that God "repents" making Saul
king and later in the same chapter says that God never repents.
We also know from 1 Samuel 15 that God isn't omniscient, since he
repents making Saul king, and if he were really omniscient to the
level claimed, that he sees all, past, present and future and that he
knows the falling of the sparrow, he would have already known when he
made Saul king that Saul would disobey him later, therefore why
repent
when he already knew it would happen when he appointed Saul?
We know from the failure of the destruction of the island city of
Tyre
that the prophecy about the destruction of Tyre failed because the
description of the coming devastation doesn't match up to what
happened (Like, Nebs failed to take the city at all, and three
chapters later even Ezekiel admits that Nebs failed and the prophecy
didn't happen)
And, we know from the four gospel accounts of the Resurrection
Morning
that the writers couldn't even get their stories straight a little
bit
(who first saw the risen Jesus? Mary in three of the accounts and
Not
Mary in the fourth - do your own research Carl. I have.).
So, those facts about the bible, from the text, indicates that the
bible isn't true. Therefore, either the god of the bible doesn't
exist, or he doesn't have the power to protect his word (or,
considering Tyre, to make his prophecies come true) or the book is
just mankind dithering about gods or godlike beings that don't really
care about mankind at all, if they even existed. Of course, they
*could* have been aliens from other worlds. That's just as likely as
the claim that they were gods, right Carl? ;-)
And, all of this is available to any person who bothers to read the
bible instead of reading the writings of other believers and
accepting
their stories hook, line and sinker, then copying and pasting them
into newsgroups to share the ignorance, right Carl?
So, the bible says that those who say "there is no god" are fools,
but
that's the same bible that can be *proven* NOT to be the word of any
God, Carl. Therefore, since its just the rantings of incompetent,
superstitious shepherds from 2000 years ago, who cares what they say,
right Carl? ;-)
CARL
All of those so-called contradictions have long since been explained.
Mostly it's due to lack of scriptural understanding or willful ignorance.
JERRY
On who's part? The apologetics I have read indicate that it's the
theist who is making up simplistic explanations that don't fit the
situation (Like McDowall's claims about Tyre, for example). I can
easily shred the explanations of nearly all the apologists I have read
(including the CARM site that Bible John was so enamored with and JP
Holding's (AKA Robert Turkel, who is not a scholar but a prison
librarian and who fancies himself the Rush Limbaugh of the Apologetic
set).
In fact, with very little research on the web you can see where
Farrell Till destroys Turkel in a debate on Yahweh's Failed Land
Promise.
CARL
I suggest Christians read the following books which have
answered all of those false contradictions and more:
Hard Sayings of the Bible by Walter C. Kaiser (Editor), Peter H.
Davids (Contributor), F. F. Bruce (Contributor)
Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties by Gleason Archer
JERRY
I don't really have access to books here in Afghanistan, but I've read
some of Gleason Archer's work several years ago and was less than
impressed with him.
Those two are excellent.
Others worth reading and studying:
Difficulties in the Bible by R. A. Torrey
1001 Bible Questions Answered by William L. Pettingill, R. A. Torrey
The Complete Book of Bible Answers by Ron Rhodes
When Critics Ask by Norman Geisler
Exegetical Fallacies by D. A. Carson
Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible by John W. Haley
JERRY
I saw the video clips of Farrell Till trashing Geisler and I have to
say, he's less than impressive as well.
Also some websites that answer many of them and addresses why critics
and skeptics keep bringing the same old tired ones up again even
though they've been answered:
http://www.carm.org/bible_difficulties.htm
JERRY
This one only goes to Deuteronomy. Not helpful in the 1 Samuel 15
contradiction. And I have to say, your use of the CARM site, which I
analyzed for Bible John, really doesn't help you much. The man is
intellectually dishonest with his writings and easily refuted. Here
is a quick example of what he writes regarding the contradictory
Creation accounts in Genesis 1 & 2:
" * Genesis 1
- Day one - heavens and earth are created. "Let there be
light." Day and Night.
- Day two - Atmospheric waters separated from earth waters.
- Day three - Land appears separating the seas. Vegetation is
made.
- Day four - Sun, moon, stars are made.
- Day five - Sea life and birds are made.
- Day six - Land animals, creeping things, and man (male and
female) are made.
* Genesis 2
States heaven and earth were created. no plant yet on earth, no
rain yet, no man. but, a mist rose watering the surface of the
ground. Then the Lord formed man from dust of the ground and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life. Then God made Eve.
There is no contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2. Genesis 1 is
a detailed explanation of the six days of creation, day by day.
Genesis two is a recap and a more detailed explanation of the sixth
day, the day that Adam and Eve were made. The recap is stated in Gen.
2:4, "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were
created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven." Then,
Moses goes on to detail the creation of Adam and Eve as is seen in
verses 7 thru 24 of Gen. 2. Proof that it is not a creative account
is found in the fact that animals aren't even mentioned until after
the creation of Adam. Why? Probably because their purpose was
designated by Adam. They didn't need to be mentioned until after Adam
was created."
JERRY
What Glenn didn't notice or was intellectually dishonest enough to
intentionally leave out, is that the contradiction is on the *order*
of
creation. In Genesis 1, we see that the whales and all the creatures
of the seas were created on the 5th day, as well as all of the fowl of
the air. Man was created later, on the sixth day.
In Genesis 2, Man was created and THEN all the beasts of the field and
the fowl of the air. Problem was, we saw in the first chapter that
all the fowl of the air were already created BEFORE man was created.
In fact, Glenn's statement: "Proof that it is not a creative account
is found in the fact that animals aren't even mentioned until after
the creation of Adam. Why? Probably because their purpose was
designated by Adam. They didn't need to be mentioned until after Adam
was created."
If they didn't need to be mentioned until after After was created, why
were they mentioned first in the first chapter? Glenn's statement is
actually supportive of the theory that chapter 1 and chapter 2 were
written by two different authors and put together after the fact,
though I'm sure he didn't intend it that way.
CARL
http://www.carm.org/diff/Bible_contradictions.htm
This one doesn't address anything in particular but has this
interesting statement:
"The Originals are Inspired, not the copies."
How does he know? There ARE no originals. Only copies of copies of
copies and the copies show us that the bible has changed over the
years. We can also tell by studying the bible, Carl, that the bible
contains contradictions (showing it's neither reflective of God's
perfection, nor is it protected by God), that it's historically
inaccurate and that it contains failed prophecies.
CARL
http://www.tektonics.org/
JERRY
Turkel, as I mentioned earlier, is a joke. He fancies himself like
Limbaugh and spends his time in a debate attacking and making fun of
his opponent and not addressing the points made. Instead he will
throw out a statement that he can't support and go on with the
attacks. It's the reason he does so little debating, as a
knowledgeable opponent shows that he's unable to address the issues
under debate. He prefers a closed studio, much like his hero, and
wants to screen calls. He "debates" someone by taking their published
work, making fun of it and not giving a chance to the author to rebut
what Turkel has stated. Only the non-discerning reader takes him
seriously. (watching Till kick his ***** around the internet, and
Turkel's growing sputters of outrage were priceless.)
CARL
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/
Doesn't address contradictions/failed prophecies/historical
inaccuracies of the bible except in a very general "the bible is
always right" manner.
In fact, there are a number of better apologetics sites out there.
Heck, even Turkel's very poor attempts are better than christian-
thinktank.
.
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| User: "Merlin" |
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| Title: Re: The Great Battle |
28 Dec 2007 09:13:07 AM |
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dear wrote:
Ps 14:1; 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God ." (NIV)
why does the bible call people names?
why does the bible insult so many people?
why is the bible so mean spirited as you show here?
where is the love in the bible?
where is the hope in the bible?
where is jesus love in the bible?
calling people fools is important to whom?
calling people fools proves what to god?
calling people fools is acceptable to jesus?
does not this meaness justify abu greb?
does not this insulting nature help with gitmo torture?
does not this treatment of others allow water boarding?
and what christian in america would even quote the old testament.
as not one christian in america obeys all ten commandments.
we don't keep the sabbath, we worship someone other than yahew who is
not declared to be yahew?
this is the great disconnect in modern american christianity.
there is no charity unless someone pays for it.
there is no charity unless the person is a christian.
there is no charity for the whole world god created.
in love with the living loving gay jesus,
merlin
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: The Great Battle |
20 Dec 2007 08:04:50 AM |
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On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 01:52:29 -0500, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
Spiritual warfare is an ongoing event in Christianity. It's occuring every
moment of every day whether we Christians like it or not. God told us to
take the whole armor of God and we should equip ourselves with that armor.
J.C. Ryle wrote about this very subject and it is an interesting read since
he was very passionate on the Biblical topic. I hope you may find it
interesting and enlightening as well.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Carl,
And you - as your mentors, John Wolf and John MacArthur would say are
a "spiritual terrorist" who does not use the sword of the spirit as an
offensive weapon as God demands in the passages you are speaking of.
Rather you use Satan's dagger of deception. The armor of God is for
defense against spiritual terrorists like yourself who work for
principalities, powers, the rulers of darkness of this age (of
lawlessness), spiritual wickedness in the high places.
Eph 6:11-18 KJV
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand
against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against
principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of
this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be
able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and
having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able
to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit,
which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and
watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all
saints;
You think you do service for God; think on what Jesus said:
Joh 16:1-3 KJV
1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be
offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh,
that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known
the Father, nor me.
You would put people out of the church for not believing what you
demand they believe. That makes you the evil one. It is you that
adds to the requirements for salvation and it is you that demands
death for those who do not believe the non-scriptural doctrine of the
Trinity that you worship in lieu of God.
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
Nothing so completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity
himself, than straightforward and simple integrity in another.
Charles Caleb Colton, author and clergyman (1780-1832)
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