| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Marcia, Bethany and Me" |
| Date: |
16 Feb 2004 01:05:23 PM |
| Object: |
The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
"Michael Paul Johnson" <mpj@ebible.org> wrote in message
news:books/bible/world-english-faq_1076834394@rtfm.mit.edu...
I have a challenge for you, this challenge is not meant to condemn
your work on the World English Bible but rather to assist in it's
work. I am very interested in the work on the "WEB", for it is
derived from the ASV of 1901. My favorite Bibles are the NKJV,
the RSV and the NASB, and that NASB was derived from the
ASV of 1901. I like the NKJV, the RSV and the NASB, although
each has problems, these Bibles tend to have less problems than
other versions, and these Bibles often use English in an eloquent
fashion. The challenge I propose is that you allow me to choose a
handful of Bible verses (I like the number 17, allow me to choose
17 verses), and we publicly discuss and compare these 17 verses
of "my" choosing on these five usenet groups:
1) alt.bible, 2) alt.christnet.bible, 3) alt.christnet.theology,
4) alt.religion.christian.adventist, and 5) alt.religion.christian.baptist
(I am both an Adventist and a Baptist). If you are in agreement to
this, my suggestion is that these 17 verses be presented and
discussed over a 17 week period, that one verse be presented and
discussed each week, and that I will post each chosen verse
early each Sunday (the first day of the week). I understand that
the work on the World English Bible is not complete, so if one
of my chosen verses has not yet been addressed by your
volunteers, perhaps they can involve themselves during that
particular week. May God bless your team's efforts and
provide us with a "Great" World English Bible!!!
Daryl Shawn Kabatoff
Box 7134
Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Canada
S7K 4J1
Note: The flood began on the 17th day of the second month and
the ark came to a rest on the 17th day of the seventh month, it
was 150 days later (Genesis 8:4-5), and still there are 150 days
separating these days in our calendars today.
And note that a threefold cord is not easily broken (Ecclesiastes
4:12). If you agree to the challenge, then I will choose 7 of the 17
verses while Cindy and Donna will each get to pick 5 of the
remaining verses. Cindy and Donna are very Spirit filled individuals,
should they agree to participate, then their involvement would be a
blessing to this challenge and to the development of the World
English Bible.
.
|
|
| User: "Thomas" |
|
| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
16 Feb 2004 07:11:54 PM |
|
|
"Marcia, Bethany and Me" <darylsk@shaw.ca> stumbled into the group
drunkenly, dropped his pants and left the following steaming pile:
volunteers, perhaps they can involve themselves during that
particular week. May God bless your team's efforts and
provide us with a "Great" World English Bible!!!
Daryl Shawn Kabatoff-Documented pedophile and
well-known worshiper of penises
<<<snipped a lot of psycho crap from Shawn "pedophile-boy" Kabatoff>>>
The following (courtesy of Waxy.org) is sort of an unofficial "FAQ"
explaining the psychotic nonsense posted to Usenet by Shawn Daryl
Kabatoff AKA "Dar", AKA "Probababbilities". And now AKA "marcia and
me".
WARNING: Read below before even thinking about responding to this
twit.
http://www.waxy.org/archive/2002/05/21/dar_kaba.shtml#000643
Usenet has the tendency to provide a public forum for those who would
normally be scribbling in a closet. For example, take Daryl "Shawn"
Kabatoff. For the last few years, he's methodically gathered
"statistics" from various sources, ranging from local newspaper
obituary pages to the food court of the Saskatoon Midtown Plaza mall.
With all the raw data he's collected, he's attempting to prove daily
that our full names are in "mathematical harmony" with our birthdays.
His rants normally focus on a single individual he's met or read
about, starting with calculations related to their birthdate and full
names, blending in whatever other personal information about their
family members, spouses, birthplace, and career he's been able to
glean. From there, it descends into a mix of numerology, religious
zealotry, and personal torment. I've never seen anything like it.
With all the prime numbers, Fibonacci sequences and biblical
references, it's like reading the notebooks of Maximillian Cohen and
John Nash combined. Unsurprisingly, several posts unfold to reveal a
history of painful mental illness. If you have some time, take a look.
I've detailed his posting history and a several sample posts below.
Usenet Posting History:
January 27, 1999 to July 5, 2000 as
December 9, 2000 to May 4, 2001 as
Oct 30, 2001 to Oct 31, 2001 as
January 20, 2002 to April 17, 2002 as (original
posts have been
removed from Google Groups archive)
April 26, 2002 to Present as
Selected Posts:
Tessa Lynne Smith
Dastageer Sakhizai and Helen Smith
Brett David Maki
Andrew Meredith Cotton
Kathryn Lee Hipperson
Amanda Dawn Newton
Mona Marie Etcheverry
Tony Peter Nuspl
Lisa Charlene McMillan
Grant Allyn Wood
Comments
scarier still is that saskatoon is my hometown, though not my current
residence. and every single place he's mentioned in his posts (most
notably nervous harold's and the roastary) were either places i've
been (as it's a small city of 200K) or hangouts, ie. the two places
mentioned. chances are i could email some friends back home and find
out if they know of him, they (my friends that is) being of the
broadway-centred slacker ilk. myself, too, until i got out of there.
eh, anyways. thought it odd to see all this. midtown mall. i ate my
meals there, whilst waiting several days in line for star wars episode
one, at the theatre across the street.
posted by andy raad on May 22, 2002 06:20 PM
Fascinating. It's like he's trying to take chaos and bind it into
whatever rules he can find, religious, logical and otherwise. Numbers
and math have a reliable pattern, something that can always be proven
to true or false. People and religion do not. It reminds me of Darren
Aronofsky's movie Pi. It's the story of an paraniod genius who is
trying to find a pattern in Pi. A group that takes interest in his
work is convinced that the existence of Pi, a number whose existence
can be proven but no quantified, is proof of the existence of God.
Kabatoff's hunt for patterns in something as random as name selection
is a way to reconcile his deeply logical thought process with his
conflicting religious views.
posted by matt on May 23, 2002 11:19 AM
Exactly. I probably shouldn't have, but I e-mailed Daryl yesterday,
asking him if he'd be willing to create a numerological analysis for
me. I also asked him if he had seen either Pi or A Beautiful Mind, and
what he thought of them. If he replies, I'll be sure to post it.
posted by Andy Baio on May 23, 2002 11:24 AM
I baked many pumpkin pies for Shawn (he likes pumpkin pies). I rubbed
pumpkin pie all over my breasts for him, and my breasts turned orange.
I am a pumpkin for Shawn.
posted by Trisha Blondie on July 24, 2002 10:41 PM
Um, that's swell. So, you're in love with him?
posted by Andy Baio on July 25, 2002 07:10 AM
Shawn once went to a funeral for a Jehovah Witness that shot himself
and the lemon tarts were very bad, they were not only sour but were
rubbery as well. Shawn said that the guy was some kind of Jehovah
Witness prophet, he saw in advance that the lemon tarts at his funeral
were to be very very bad, and so he shot himself. Shawn said that he
never ate pumpkin pie at a funeral but would like to some day. Shawn
likes pumpkin pie and so I have been practicing to make very good
pumpkin pies.
posted by Trisha Blondie on July 25, 2002 02:49 PM
Shawn said that the lemon tarts were sour, bitter and rubbery.
posted by Trisha Blondie on July 30, 2002 12:32 AM
I don't think this guy takes notes. I think he has Total Recall, and
it has driven him insane...
posted by Todd Smith on December 26, 2002 11:00 AM
Oh... I almost forgot... I didnt spend thousands of dollars a day
tormenting Daryl... We got a deal on tormenting that fiscal year, it
only came to about 37cents a day....
posted by Dr Claw on December 30, 2002 01:56 AM
Mr. Kabatoff attempts to portray himself as a victim, but in fact he
is a violent predatory pedophile who is well known to his local law
enforcement. In his post to multiple newsgroups with the subject
"Collecting Mail For The Coming Anti-Christ", he encourages mothers to
send him photos of their naked daughters. Mr Kabatoff explains, "I
personally did not want photographs being mailed to (the coming
Ant-Christ) that were of underage children unless the parent was
signing consent." He is banned from virtually all the shopping malls
in his community because he stalks young people and sexually harasses
them. He has an extensive arrest record which includes sexual
molestation charges. He's been hospitalized in mental institutions
several times because he likes to accost "nubile cuties." He writes
about his contact with young girls in many posts. Search newsgroup
archives for posts by him containing the word "nubile". As part of his
harrassment, he provides personal details in a public forum, such as
the real names of real children, in these and other posts. About one
girl he met at a mall, he writes, "I wanted Callie in my bed or I
wanted her and her sister dead."
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Daryl+Shawn+Kabatoff+dead+or+in+my+bed&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=asqm35%24tjq5j%241%40ID-136124.news.dfncis.de&rnu
He not only curses children and prays for their death in his posts, he
also enjoys attending the funerals of young people: "And so, since
nubile sweeties are found in greatest abundance at the funerals of
high school students, then it is the funerals of high school students
that make the very very best funerals, especially if there is food...
I stuff my face (and my pockets) with all the good food and look at
all the pretty nubile sweeties and have the time of my life..
..http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Daryl+Shawn+Kabatoff+nubile+sex&hl=en&l
r=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=LfXN8.63042%24R53.25142039%40twister.socal.rr.
com&rnum=1
Many of his posts are sent to alt.teens.advice. However, he liberally
spams, floods and crossposts his off-topic threatening and offensive
missives to countless newsgroups. Some people HAVE problems and some
folks ARE problems. Don't dismiss Mr. Kabatoff as a harmless nut. When
he sends these posts to any newgroup, please help by reporting him to
his ISP. Thanks.
posted by nospam on January 5, 2003 04:39 AM
I knew of him when I was attending the University of Saskatchewan.
He'd hang out in the Arts computer lab and all you'd see is screens of
numbers racing by on his laptop. I have an original copy of his
"Collecting Mail for the Coming Anti-Christ" pamphlet, and have seen
him be hauled away by campus security on more than one occasion. My
friends and I refer to him as "Crazy Number Man".
posted by Mr. Somebody on April 10, 2003 11:09 AM
I've been posting to (and about) Shawn for over two years with big
gaps in between. He has seen Pi and didn't like it and didn't think it
resembled him at all. (Wrong, it fits him to a tee) He doesn't have
total recall and has stated that he travels with a lap top to notate
items. Also, he uses "cut n' paste" a lot if you read all the way
through his ramblings. He is anti-social as shown by his angry
statements towards those who, by his own admission, have been kind
(but not kind enough) to him. Still, he's intelligent and seems to be
able to "take a joke" on occassion. That's where I came in.
posted by Gambol on May 19, 2003 02:22
ALOHA
Reply to group
(Unsolicited e-mail is deleted from the server unread
if it comes from anyone not already in my addressbook.
I'll never even see it)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Marcia, Bethany and Me" |
|
| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
16 Feb 2004 07:41:49 PM |
|
|
"Thomas" <isleniceguy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6025fea2.0402161711.4eacca65@posting.google.com...
<snip>
James Takayama posted libel against me using the name
"nospam", now he frequently quotes this libel using
the name "Thomas." -Daryl S. Kabatoff
HALOHA
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
See Hebrews 4, here is New Testament Scripture
in chapter 4 telling us to remember to honor God's 4th
Commandment. The pre-incarnate Jesus created
heaven and earth and provided us with the Ten
Commandments. Then He came to earth in human form
and abided by His Ten Commandments. Then He was
crucified on the 6th day of the week, RESTED in the
tomb on the 7th day of the week, then rose on the first
day of the week to resume His ministry (His WORK).
He rose on a Sunday to resume His work while the
filthy churches teach you that His rising on a Sunday
changes His day of rest to Sunday.
Let us strive to enter that rest and honor what God
desires that we honor rather than continue to strive
to hold onto the things that our are important to
our friends, family and ourselves. -Daryl S. Kabatoff
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Marcia, Bethany and Me" |
|
| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
16 Feb 2004 05:50:11 PM |
|
|
"Marcia, Bethany and Me" <darylsk@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Tv8Yb.530089$X%5.434649@pd7tw2no...
"Michael Paul Johnson" < > wrote in message
news:books/bible/world-english-faq_1076834394@rtfm.mit.edu...
I have a challenge for you, this challenge is not meant to condemn
your work on the World English Bible but rather to assist in it's
work. I am very interested in the work on the "WEB", for it is
derived from the ASV of 1901. My favorite Bibles are the NKJV,
the RSV and the NASB, and that NASB was derived from the
ASV of 1901. I like the NKJV, the RSV and the NASB, although
each has problems, these Bibles tend to have less problems than
other versions, and these Bibles often use English in an eloquent
fashion. The challenge I propose is that you allow me to choose a
handful of Bible verses (I like the number 17, allow me to choose
17 verses), and we publicly discuss and compare these 17 verses
of "my" choosing on these five usenet groups:
1) alt.bible, 2) alt.christnet.bible, 3) alt.christnet.theology,
4) alt.religion.christian.adventist, and 5) alt.religion.christian.baptist
(I am both an Adventist and a Baptist). If you are in agreement to
this, my suggestion is that these 17 verses be presented and
discussed over a 17 week period, that one verse be presented and
discussed each week, and that I will post each chosen verse
early each Sunday (the first day of the week). I understand that
the work on the World English Bible is not complete, so if one
of my chosen verses has not yet been addressed by your
volunteers, perhaps they can involve themselves during that
particular week. May God bless your team's efforts and
provide us with a "Great" World English Bible!!!
Daryl Shawn Kabatoff
Box 7134
Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Canada
S7K 4J1
Note: The flood began on the 17th day of the second month and
the ark came to a rest on the 17th day of the seventh month, it
was 150 days later (Genesis 8:4-5), and still there are 150 days
separating these days in our calendars today.
And note that a threefold cord is not easily broken (Ecclesiastes
4:12). If you agree to the challenge, then I will choose 7 of the 17
verses while Cindy and Donna will each get to pick 5 of the
remaining verses. Cindy and Donna are very Spirit filled individuals,
should they agree to participate, then their involvement would be a
blessing to this challenge and to the development of the World
English Bible.
Actually in some cases it would be necessary to present a verse
in context with the verses before, after or surrounding it. If you
agree to this public inspection of 17 verses or 17 sets of Scripture
while the World English Bible is still being developed, perhaps
a result will be to elicit additional help, resulting in a better
Bible. -Daryl S. Kabatoff
************************************
************************************
************************************
Archive-name: books/bible/world-english-faq
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Last-modified: 6 August 2002
URL: http://ebible.org/bible/web/webfaq.htm
URL: http://ebible.org/bible/web/webfaq.txt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
The World English Bible (WEB) FAQ
Last updated: 6 August 2002
Last change: Added mention of WEBnews mailing list.
This Frequently Asked Questions document covers the following about
the World English Bible (WEB):
Why create yet another English translation of the Holy Bible?
Why is the copyright such a big deal?
Isn't it dangerous not to copyright the WEB?
What is the World English Bible?
Who is behind the WEB Revision work?
What are your qualifications to do translation work?
What is the WEB Translation Philosophy?
What original language texts are you using?
How does the WEB compare to other translations?
What about the King James Only movement?
What makes you think that you can compete with multi-million dollar
publishers?
What kind of editing help do you want?
How do you publish draft portions of the WEB?
How do I join the WEB mailing list?
How do I get off of the WEB mailing list?
How do I change my address on the WEB mailing list?
Is anyone else working on a public domain, Modern English
translation?
When will the WEB be completed?
Can I get a printed copy of the WEB?
Why the name WEB?
Will any major publishers be interested in the WEB?
Why do you use "Yahweh" for God's name in the Old Testament?
Why don't you capitalize pronouns referring to God?
Why do you use contractions?
Where can I get the WEB?
How can I help support the WEB work?
Who Maintains this FAQ?
_____________________________________________________________
Why create yet another English translation of the Holy Bible?
_____________________________________________________________
That is a good question. There are more than 40 English translations of
the Holy Bible. Unfortunately, all of them are either (1) archaic (like
the KJV and ASV of 1901), or (2) covered by copyright restrictions that
prevent unrestricted free posting on the internet or other media (like
the NIV and NASB). The Bible in Basic English (BBE) was in the Public
Domain in the USA (but not all countries) for a while, but its
copyrighted status was restored by GATT. (The BBE used a rather
restricted subset of English, anyway, limiting its accuracy and
readability.) In other words, there is NO OTHER complete translation of
the Holy Bible in normal Modern English that can be freely copied
(except for some limited "fair use") without payment of royalties
and/or publisher permission. This is the vacuum that the World English
Bible is filling.
_____________________________________
Why is the copyright such a big deal?
_____________________________________
The copyright laws of most nations and the international treaties
that support them are a mixed blessing. By granting authors and
translators a legal monopoly (for a limited, but very long, time) on the
right of copying and "first sale" of their works, the law makers have
made writing and translating very profitable for some people whose works
are in great demand. This has, no doubt, been a factor in the creation
of many of the good Modern English translations of the Holy Bible that
we now enjoy. The problem with this system, with respect to the Holy
Bible, is that it has had the effect of limiting distribution of God's
Word in modern languages. For example, I cannot legally post copies of
the entire New International Version of the Holy Bible on my web site in
a downloadable, searchable, and readily copiable format without the
permission of the International Bible Society and Zondervan (copyright
owner and publisher). Zondervan won't grant such permission unless they
get a significant royalty (they quoted me $10,000 + $10/copy
distributed) and unless I convince them that my Bible search software is
"good enough" for them. Needless to say, the Bible search software that
I am writing with the intention of distributing as donorware will not
come with the NIV.
The problem of copyright protection of Modern English translations of
the Holy Bible is not just significant on the Internet and various
electronic information services. It also affects people who want to
quote significant portions of Scripture in books, audio tapes, and other
media. This drives up the price of preaching the Gospel. Basic economics
tells us that this is not a good thing when our goal is to fulfill the
Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20). For example, the "free" Bibles that
the Gideons place cost more if they use a modern version, like
Thomas-Nelson's New King James Version, than if they use the (more
difficult to read) King James Version.
Naturally, I'm not suggesting that we abolish the copyright law or
that existing Modern English translations be immediately released to the
Public Domain. I understand the way that the profits from the sales of
the NIV, for example, help fund other language translations at the
International Bible Society (as well as helping to enrich some folks at
Zondervan). I also understand that the business of Bible sales has
helped establish a good supply of Bibles in many parts of the world, in
a variety of formats, sizes, styles, and colors. What we are doing is
liberating at least one Modern English translation of the Holy Bible
from all copyright restrictions -- a translation that is trustworthy,
accurate, and useful for evangelism and discipleship.
Another concern where copyright restrictions come into play is in
translation and creating derivative works. For example, the copyright
notice of the NASB expressly forbids making translations or derivative
works based on the NASB without getting permission from the Lockman
Foundation. I don't know if they would make this easy or hard, expensive
or cheap, but I do know that there will be no need to even ask when
using the WEB.
____________________________________________
Isn't it dangerous not to copyright the WEB?
____________________________________________
No. Copyright protection is intended to protect the income of the
copyright holder's sales of a work, but we are planning to GIVE AWAY the
right to make copies of this version of the Holy Bible to anyone who
wants it, so we have nothing to lose that way. There is some argument
for copyrighting a Bible translation just to retain some legal control
against some evil, cultic revision of a translation. The God's Living
Word translations of John's Gospel and John's letters are copyrighted
only for this reason, for example, even though blanket permission to
make unlimited copies of that translation is published with them. This
legal leverage is so much weaker than God's protection of His own Word
that it is of questionable value. (See Revelation 22:18-19.) The only
other major concern is that somebody might later claim a copyright on
the WEB and remove it from the Public Domain. Because there is a timely
and public declaration of the Public Domain status of the WEB by those
who are working on it, that would not work, and they would not be able
to defend such a bogus copyright claim.
________________________________
What is the World English Bible?
________________________________
The World English Bible is an update of the American Standard Version
of 1901, which is in the Public Domain. The revision is also in the
Public Domain, which sets it apart from other revisions of the ASV, like
the New American Standard Bible and the Revised Standard Version.
The first pass of the translation, which has already been done, was to
convert about 1,000 archaic words and word forms to modern equivalents
using a custom computer program. The second through seventh phases
consist of manual editing and proofreading. The initial manual pass is
to add quotation marks (the ASV of 1901 had none), update other
punctuation, update usage, and spot check the translation against the
original languages in places where the meaning is unclear or significant
textual variants exist. The subsequent passes are to review of the
results of the previous pass. In each pass, volunteers read the current
draft, looking for typos, unclear passages, etc., then report back to
the main editors <editors@ebible.org>, who check the suggestions and
merge the best suggestions into the master draft. As this is going on,
the draft at the WEB web page is updated.
______________________________
Who is behind the WEB editing?
______________________________
Rainbow Missions, Inc., a Colorado nonprofit corporation -- and many
volunteers who are born again and seeking to daily follow the leading
of the Holy Spirit, along with many who have gone before in the creation
of the American Standard Version of the Holy Bible.
_________________________________
Is the WEB a one-man translation?
_________________________________
Many people have been involved in the production and editing of the
World English Bible from a variety of backgrounds. Because this is a
revision of the American Standard Version of the Revised Bible, we
start with the over 50 Evangelical scholars who worked on that
project. They, in turn, relied on the work of those who had gone
before them. We also rely on the work of many scholars who have
found, compiled, combined, and published the excellent and highly
accurate Hebrew and Greek texts from which we work. We also rely on
the excellent lexicons of Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek that are
available to us.
In addition to these excellent references that represent literally
hundreds of years of combined labor by many committed Christian men
and women, we have access to the United Bible Society handbooks on
Bible translation and a large number of other English translations to
compare and consult.
Among the volunteers who have contributed to this project, we have
people who attend various churches, including Baptist, Methodist,
Pentecostal, non-denominational, and many more. This broad
representation helps guard against introducing sectarian bias into
the work. In addition, the novel technique of publishing draft copies
of the World English Bible on the Internet provides additional
protection against bias, because all serious comments are carefully
considered and the wording compared to the original language.
Although we don't demand credentials from people who comment on the
translation by email, we do validate their comments before deciding
what to do with them.
We do have one senior editor who is responsible for decisions
regarding the text, but he is also accountable to several other
Christians. Everyone who has authority to decide on the wording in
the World English Bible believes in the inspiration by the Holy
Spirit of the text as recorded by the original authors. In addition,
we also believe that the Holy Spirit is still active in preserving
the text and helps us in our work to the extent that we let Him.
____________________________________________________
What are your qualifications to do translation work?
____________________________________________________
Volunteers who work on the Bible text must believe that the Holy
Bible is God's Word, and must not be altered in meaning. Good
doctrine comes from the Bible, not the other way around. Among us, we
have a variety of talents, including language scholarship, computer
skills, and many years of study of God's Word. The most important
qualification, however, is the call of God. Master's Degrees are nice
(and I have one), but that is not required of all who work on this. A
good grasp of the English language, an understanding of the
Scriptures, and a deep love for God are all more important.
_______________________________________
What is the WEB Translation Philosophy?
_______________________________________
The WEB must:
* be done with prayer -- specifically prayer for inspiration by the
Holy Spirit.
* be accurate and reliable (Revelation 22:18-19).
* be understandable to the majority of the world's English-speaking
population (and therefore should avoid locale-specific usage).
* be kept in the Public Domain (and therefore be done by volunteers
and/or funded by donations).
* be made available in a short time, because we don't know the exact
time of our Lord's return.
* preserve the essential character of the original 1901 publication.
* use language that is not faddish, but likely to retain its meaning
for some time.
* render God's proper Name in the Old Testament as "Yahweh."
* resolve unclear passages by referring to the original Hebrew and
Greek.
* be done with utmost respect for God and His Word.
* be done by Christians from a variety of denominations and
backgrounds.
* retain (at least for now) the ASV 1901's pronoun capitalization
rules (lower case "he" referring to God).
* retain (at least for now) the ASV 1901's use of "he" when that word
might mean ("he and/or she").
Bible translation (as with any natural language translation) is a
balancing act, where the translators seek to preserve the following:
* The meaning of each thought or sentence.
* The meanings of individual words in their context.
* The shades of meaning implied by word forms, tense, etc.
* The impact and tone of each passage.
* The style of the original authors who were inspired by the Holy
Spirit.
* Faithfulness to the target language (English, in this case).
Note that some of the above goals are at odds with one another, like
preservation of the original style vs. faithfulness to the target
language, and expressing the last bit of the shades of meaning vs.
preserving the impact. Still, it is possible to retain a good balance.
Different balance points are chosen by different translation committees.
Indeed, many translations can be characterized by the weight the
translators gave to each of the above items. For example, The Amplified
Bible excels at getting the meaning across, but falls down hard on
impact, style preservation, and faithfulness to the target language. The
New Living Translation excels at preserving the meanings of entire
thoughts, impact, and faithfulness to the target language, but loses
some of the style and shades of meaning. The New International Version
excels at most of the above, but loses some elements of style and some
of the subtleties of wording. The World English Bible attempts to
balance all of the above with a fairly literal translation.
Some people like to use the terms "formal equivalent" and "dynamic
equivalent." Neither of these exactly describe what we are doing, since
we have borrowed ideas from both, but I suppose that we are closer to
formal equivalence than dynamic equivalence.
___________________________________________
What original language texts are you using?
___________________________________________
Since this is primarily an update of the 1901 edition, the choices made
by the original 50 or so Evangelical scholars that made this translation
hold unless reference is made to the original languages to help with
places where the Elizabethan English is not clear, or where major
textual variants are known to exist. In this case, we are using the
Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, also called The Stuttgart Bible, in the
Old Testament, and the Byzantine Majority Text as published for use with
The Online Bible in the New Testament (M-Text). This choice of Greek
text is very close to what the KJV translators used, but does take
advantage of some more recently discovered manuscripts. Although there
are good scholarly arguments both for and against using the Byzantine
Majority Text over the "Alexandrian" text based on the dating and
critical editing work of Nestle and Aland and published by the United
Bible Societies (UBS), we find the following to be compelling reasons:
* The UBS text has a lot of "dropout" errors relative to the M-Text.
Diligent scribes with a respect for God's Word are more likely to miss
copying something (i.e. by skipping a line, etc.) than to make up a line
to add in.
* Different scribes copying the same passage aren't all likely to
make the same mistakes at the same places, even though some mistakes are
likely to be copied over many times.
* When a scribe had a choice of manuscripts to copy, he would normally
copy the one that he trusted the most, thus causing the most trusted
text to be copied more often.
* The UBS text relies heavily on the dating of the media upon which
the text was written, but those texts that are used more and trusted
more would both be copied more often and worn out from use sooner.
* The UBS text is heavily weighted to a small number of manuscripts
relative to those available to us.
* The UBS text is heavily weighted to a small number of manuscripts
relative to those available to us, and relies heavily on one manuscript
that was pulled from a trash can at a monastery.
* The Holy Spirit takes an active interest in preserving what He has
inspired.
* In those few sections where the M-Text and UBS text differ
significantly, I have taken my question of textual choice directly to
God, and God chose to answer me by confirming in several different ways
that reading which the M-Text rendered. The main passage in question is
in Mark 16, but there are others, too. While I certainly don't claim to
be infallible, I do know when to say, "Yes, Sir" and follow the
direction I see the Lord pointing me in.
_______________________________________________
How does the WEB compare to other translations?
_______________________________________________
The WEB is different enough to avoid copyright infringement, but
similar enough to avoid incurring the wrath of God. By "different
enough," I mean that the wording is about as different from any one
Modern English translation as the current translations differ from each
other. By "similar enough," I mean that the meaning is preserved and
that the Gospel still cuts to the very soul. It is most similar to the
ASV of 1901, of course, but I suppose that similarities will be found
with other translations.
The WEB doesn't capitalize pronouns pertaining to God. This is similar
to the NRSV and NIV, and the same as the original ASV of 1901. Note that
this is an English style decision, because Hebrew has no such thing as
upper and lower case, and the oldest Greek manuscripts were all upper
case. I kind of prefer the approach of the KJV, NKJV, and NASB of
capitalizing these pronouns, because I write that way most of the time
and because it is a way of offering greater honor to God. I admit that
it is kind of a throw-back to the Olde English practice of capitalizing
pronouns referring to the king. This is archaic, because we don't
capitalize pronouns that refer to our president. It is also true that
choosing to capitalize pronouns relating to God causes some difficulties
in translating the coronation psalms, where the psalm was initially
written for the coronation of an earthly king, but which also can
equally well be sung or recited to the praise of the King of Kings.
Capitalizing pronouns relating to God also makes for some strange
reading where people were addressing Jesus with anything but respect.
In any case, in the presence of good arguments both ways, we have
decided to leave these as they were in the ASV 1901 (which also gives us
fewer opportunities to make mistakes).
The WEB, like the ASV of 1901, breaks the KJV tradition by printing
God's proper Name in the Old Testament with a spelling closest to what
we think it was pronounced like, instead of rendering that Name as
"LORD" or "GOD" (with all caps or small caps). The current scholarly
consensus has shifted from spelling this Name as "Jehovah" to spelling
it as "Yahweh." There are a couple of other English translations that
use "Yahweh," so this is not new, per se, but it does set it off a
little from other translations.
Because World English Bible (WEB) uses the Majority Text as the basis
for the New Testament, you may notice the following differences in
comparing the WEB to other translations:
* The order of Matthew 23:13 and 14 is reversed in some translations.
* Luke 17:36 and Acts 15:34, which are not found in the majority of
the Greek Manuscripts (and are relegated to footnotes in the WEB) may
be included in some other translations.
* Romans 14:24-26 in the WEB may appear as Romans 16:25-27 in other
translations.
* 1 John 5:7-8 may read differently in some translations.
________________________________________
What about the King James Only movement?
________________________________________
May God open their eyes and give them a sound understanding.
If you prefer the King James Version of the Holy Bible, then, by all
means, read it and do it. I think that the KJV was a wonderful
Contemporary English translation of the Holy Bible when it came out. It
has been mightily used by God and has had (and continues to have) a
profoundly good impact. Unfortunately, the evolution of the English
language continually erodes its value as time goes on. It is now outsold
by the excellent New International Version, for many good reasons.
I guess that there are a few people that seem to believe that the KJV
is more accurate than the original Hebrew and Greek of the Holy Bible,
and that all the other versions are tainted with heresy and conspiracy.
I've read some of their literature. I found it to be some of the most
non-Christian and illogical literature that I have endured, thus further
proving the claim that the KJV is the only valid Bible to be wrong, at
least in my mind. I guess I've now put myself on record as being a
heretic in their eyes, but I must follow God, rather than men.
___________________________________________________________________
What makes you think that you can compete with multi-million dollar
publishers?
___________________________________________________________________
Indeed, throwing another Modern English translation into the "market"
to "compete" with solid translations like the NIV and publishing giants
like Zondervan sounds as silly. It sounds like that, perhaps, until you
consider that the primary target for the WEB is royalty-free
distribution of the Holy Bible in unlimited copies made by many people
using many computers, tape recorders, photocopiers, and presses all over
the world. This is a "market" that the "giants" have excluded themselves
from. Indeed, if they change that policy (don't hold your breath waiting
for them to), we win, anyway. If we win this area, that is enough to
justify this effort. If we do an excellent job, the WEB might possibly
start competing in more conventional areas (like printed Bibles in
bookstores), but not because of any significant effort or marketing on
our part. After all, the bookstores have lots of Bibles in Modern
English, already.
Once you look at the whole picture of what is going on, the
multi-million dollar publishers and Bible translators really don't have
much of an effect on us, nor do we have much of an effect on them. The
result of the combined efforts of both is simply more complete
availability of the Holy Bible in Modern English.
Of course, it does take considerable effort to pull off a decent Bible
translation -- even a language update like the WEB. Fortunately, there
are lots of people willing to volunteer some time to help with this
cause, and the Internet helps bring those people together.
The real bottom line, though, is that this is God's project, and He is
fully capable of providing everything that we need to accomplish His
goals.
______________________________________
What kind of editing help do you want?
______________________________________
Specifically, we need people who will read drafts of WEB chapters
carefully, checking the following things, and email suggestions for
improvements in the following areas:
* Typos & spelling errors.
* Punctuation errors.
* Grammar & usage errors.
* Unclear wording or wording that may be misunderstood.
* Wording that varies in meaning from other good Bible translations
(realizing that some will vary due to "textual variants" in the
underlying original languages).
* Wording that may inadvertently be "too close" to any copyrighted
Modern English translation for too many verses in a row (thus
risking charges of copyright infringement).
* Questions that come up with respect to specific portions of the
translation.
* Inconsistencies in style, usage, or translation.
Note that all suggestions made in line with the above mentioned
translation philosophy will be seriously considered. There is no
guarantee, of course, that any suggestion will result in a change,
especially in those areas that involve judgment calls, because we are
likely to get conflicting suggestions for the same passage. If in doubt,
suggest or ask, anyway. We want to eradicate as many of the above
problems that tend to distract from the meaning and message of the Holy
Bible.
_____________________________________________
How do you publish draft portions of the WEB?
_____________________________________________
Draft portions of the WEB are published in the WEB mailing list, at
http://ebible.org/bible/web, in ftp://ebible.org/pub/new, and in
the unmoderated Usenet news groups alt.bible and alt.christnet.bible.
Once the WEB translation is done, we plan to continue it as a daily
Bible reading list.
___________________________________
How do I join the WEB mailing list?
___________________________________
There are actually three mailing lists that can properly be called the
WEB mailing list:
bible -- Daily World English Bible readings and some announcements
hnv -- Daily HNV readings and some announcements
webnews -- News about status of World English Bible translation and
publication.
The easy way (if you have access to the World Wide Web) is to visit
http://ebible.org/subscribe.htm and follow the instructions there.
If you can't do the above, send mail to with the
single line in the body of the message (not the subject) with
"subscribe" followed by the list name, like:
subscribe bible
Expect somewhere around 4 chapters of the Holy Bible per day, along
with related material (like this FAQ, the glossary, and announcements
pertaining to the WEB).
_________________________________________
How do I get off of the WEB mailing list?
_________________________________________
Visit http://ebible.org/subscribe.htm and follow the instructions
there, or send mail to with the single line in the
body of the message (not the subject) saying "unsubscribe" followed by
the list name, like:
unsubscribe bible
If you don't have access to the account you are unsubscribing from,
then add your old email address to the line, like
unsubscribe bible
but substitute your own email address for . If that
doesn't work, email for help from a real person (but
please be patient, as I have a serious backlog of email, and don't read
it every day).
___________________________________________________
How do I change my address on the WEB mailing list?
___________________________________________________
Just unsubscribe from the old address and subscribe from the new
address, using the instructions, above.
______________________________________________________________________
Is anyone else working on a public domain, Modern English
translation?
______________________________________________________________________
Yes. Dr. Maurice Robinson is overseeing another project to revise the
ASV into what he is calling the Modern American Standard Version (MASV).
That project is not on quite as ambitious schedule, but it should be
worth looking at when it is done. There are now some other works, too,
like the Updated King James Version at
http://www.geocities.com/updatedkjv/. People often ask if we are aware
of the New English Translation (http://www.netbible.org), and we are,
but it is not Public Domain. They do allow free downloads for personal
use, though, and there is a lot of scholarly work that went into that
translation.
_______________________________
When will the WEB be completed?
_______________________________
The New Testament, Psalms, and Proverbs are finished (but we will
still consider well-justified edits and typo corrections). We
have no estimate of the completion date of the Old Testament,
yet.
____________________________________
Can I get a printed copy of the WEB?
____________________________________
You can get a bound, printed copy of of the New Testament plus
Psalms and Proverbs of the World English Bible by ordering it on
line at https://www12.secure-website.net/~ebible/buy.htm or by
ordering it from a book store. Order ISBN 0-9703344-0-0.
_________________
Why the name WEB?
_________________
World: because God's Word is to the whole world, and this translation
is to be read by English-speaking people all over the world.
English: a language spoken by about 10% of the people in the world.
Bible: God's Holy Book.
WEB: This translation of the Holy Bible travels by way of the World-Wide
Web, aided by its copyright-free status.
___________________________________________________
Will any major publishers be interested in the WEB?
___________________________________________________
Several publishers that don't already own rights to another modern
English translation of the Holy Bible are likely to be interested.
____________________________________________________________
Why do you use "Yahweh" for God's name in the Old Testament?
____________________________________________________________
"Yahweh" is the most probable best transliteration of this most holy
proper name from the Hebrew consonants YOD HE WAW HE, or YHWH. This holy
name is sometimes rendered "Jehovah" based on the mixture of the vowels
for "Adonai" (Lord) with the consonants "YHWH" as it is written in some
later Hebrew manuscripts. The original Hebrew manuscripts had no vowels,
and we believe that the vowels for "adonai" were added to reflect the
tradition of avoiding pronouncing God's name, and saying "Lord" instead,
and was not an indication of how the name should be pronounced by those
so bold as to actually utter God's name. This is a break from the
tradition of the KJV and others that use "LORD" or "GOD" with all caps
or small caps to translate "YHWH", and use "Lord" (normal mixed case) to
translate "Adonai" and "God" (normal mixed case) to translate "Elohim."
That tradition gets really confusing in some places, especially since
"Yahweh" is used in conjunction with "Lord" and "God" in many places in
the Old Testament. Since God's proper name really is separate from the
titles "Lord" and "God" in the original Hebrew, we wanted the English
translation to reflect that fact, even when read aloud.
In some places, "Yah," a shortened version of God's Name is used. This
is how it is written in the Hebrew manuscripts in those places. As a
concession to strong tradition, the Hebrew Names Version of the World
English Bible uses "LORD" or "GOD" (all capital letters) for "Yahweh."
___________________________________________________
Why don't you capitalize pronouns referring to God?
___________________________________________________
In Hebrew, there is no such thing as upper and lower case. The
original Greek manuscripts were written in all upper case letters.
Therefore, this is mostly a question of English style more than a
question of conforming to the original language texts. English style
is a moving target, and there is not widespread agreement on
capitalization of pronouns referring to God. In the time of the King
James Version, it was common practice to capitalize pronouns pertaining
to any king or other national leader. Since God is the King of Kings,
it only made sense to capitalize pronouns referring to God. In modern
English, we don't do that, even when writing very respectfully. In
modern English, it is considered correct to either capitalize or not
capitalize pronouns referring to God, but the practice should be
consistent within a book. Other contemporary translations of the Holy
Bible into English are pretty much evenly split between capitalizing
and not capitalizing these pronouns.
There are three other translational issues involved. One is that it
seems rather awkward to translate quotations of people who were deriding
Jesus Christ, and who at that point didn't believe that He was the
spotless Son of God, capitalizing the pronouns they used to refer to
Him. The New American Standard Bible handles this by putting in a
footnote to explain that they capitalized the pronouns because of who
Jesus Christ is, not who the speaker thought He was.
Another issue is that in some of the coronation psalms, it was clear
that the psalm was originally written for the coronation of an earthly
king (i. e. King Solomon), but the psalm applies and is used more often
to sing praises to the King of Kings. In that case, it is difficult to
choose which case to use for the pronouns. By not capitalizing pronouns
pertaining to God, we as translators preserve the ambiguity of the
original Scriptures and leave the application to the Holy Spirit and
the reader.
The third translational issue is a more practical one. Because the
World English Bible is an update of the American Standard Version of
1901, which does not capitalize pronouns referring to God, it would have
required reviewing all pronouns in the Bible for capitalization,
determining from the context which referred to God and which did not.
Even when done carefully, there is a risk of making errors in the
process, and in some cases (such as those mentioned above), footnotes
would be in order to explain the ambiguities that would be totally
unnecessary without the capitalization.
Therefore, we have decided to retain the ASV's capitalization rules
in the Bible text.
____________________________
Why do you use contractions?
____________________________
Because the Greek New Testament was written not in the formal
written register of the language, but in the informal register of
the language used by common people, we have decided to use the less
formal spoken register of the English language. This sounds much
more natural when read aloud. The primary difference noticeable
between spoken or informal written English and formal written
English is the greater use of contractions.
________________________
Where can I get the WEB?
________________________
At http://ebible.org/bible/web (or http://WorldEnglishBible.org).
____________________________________
How can I help support the WEB work?
____________________________________
1. You can pray for everyone who works on it, that they would be
sensitive to the Holy Spirit and correctly handle God's Holy Word, and
that God would abundantly provide everything needed for this work.
2. You can partner with us, helping us to make the World English
Bible freely available by sending tax-deductible donations to:
Rainbow Missions
PO BOX 275
MESA CO 81643-0275
USA
Rainbow Missions gets its name from the rainbow that is a sign of the
covenant between God and Noah, the rainbow around God's throne, and
the rainbow that suddenly appeared in the clear blue sky right after I
asked God what to name this ministry.
_______________________
Who Maintains this FAQ?
_______________________
This FAQ is maintained by Michael Paul Johnson. Please mail comments
or suggestions to . This page is kept at
http://ebible.org/bible/web/webfaq.htm.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
16 Feb 2004 05:59:37 PM |
|
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:50:11 GMT, "Marcia, Bethany and
Me" <darylsk@shaw.ca> spake thusly:
This Frequently Asked Questions document covers the following about
the World English Bible (WEB):
Why create yet another English translation of the Holy Bible?
Why create yet another English translation of the Holy Bible?
_____________________________________________________________
That is a good question. There are more than 40 English translations of
the Holy Bible. Unfortunately, all of them are either (1) archaic (like
the KJV and ASV of 1901),
The translators of the KJV chose Elizabethan English
intentionally. It allows a more accurate translation.
Greek and Hebrew have many inflections which don't
translate well, or at all, into modern English. Not
only this, but the texts that a Bible are translated
from are of the utmost importance. Any Bible
translated from Minority, or Alexandrian Texts, is a
corrupted Bible.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"Paleontologists are traditionally famous (or infamous)
for reconstructing whole animals from the debris of
death. Mostly they cheat. ...If any event in life's
history resembles man's creation myths, it is this
sudden diversification of marine life when
multicellular organisms took over as the dominant
actors in ecology and evolution. Baffling (and
embarrassing) to Darwin, this event still dazzles us
and stands as a major biological revolution on a par
with the invention of self-replication
and the origin of the eukaryotic cell." (Bengtson,
Stefan, "The Solution to a Jigsaw Puzzle," Nature, vol.
345 (June 28, 1990), pp. 765-766)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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|
| User: "Marshall, Will, and Holly" |
|
| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
17 Feb 2004 09:07:56 AM |
|
|
"Marcia, Bethany and Me" <darylsk@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<Tv8Yb.530089$X%5.434649@pd7tw2no>...
"Michael Paul Johnson" <mpj@ebible.org> wrote in message
news:books/bible/world-english-faq_1076834394@rtfm.mit.edu...
I have a challenge for you, this challenge is not meant to condemn
your work on the World English Bible but rather to assist in it's
work. I am very interested in the work on the "WEB", for it is
derived from the ASV of 1901. My favorite Bibles are the NKJV,
the RSV and the NASB, and that NASB was derived from the
ASV of 1901. I like the NKJV, the RSV and the NASB, although
each has problems, these Bibles tend to have less problems than
other versions, and these Bibles often use English in an eloquent
fashion. The challenge I propose is that you allow me to choose a
handful of Bible verses (I like the number 17, allow me to choose
17 verses), and we publicly discuss and compare these 17 verses
of "my" choosing on these five usenet groups:
1) alt.bible, 2) alt.christnet.bible, 3) alt.christnet.theology,
4) alt.religion.christian.adventist, and 5) alt.religion.christian.baptist
(I am both an Adventist and a Baptist). If you are in agreement to
this, my suggestion is that these 17 verses be presented and
discussed over a 17 week period, that one verse be presented and
discussed each week, and that I will post each chosen verse
early each Sunday (the first day of the week). I understand that
the work on the World English Bible is not complete, so if one
of my chosen verses has not yet been addressed by your
volunteers, perhaps they can involve themselves during that
particular week. May God bless your team's efforts and
provide us with a "Great" World English Bible!!!
Daryl Shawn Kabatoff
Box 7134
Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Canada
S7K 4J1
Note: The flood began on the 17th day of the second month and
the ark came to a rest on the 17th day of the seventh month, it
was 150 days later (Genesis 8:4-5), and still there are 150 days
separating these days in our calendars today.
And note that a threefold cord is not easily broken (Ecclesiastes
4:12). If you agree to the challenge, then I will choose 7 of the 17
verses while Cindy and Donna will each get to pick 5 of the
remaining verses. Cindy and Donna are very Spirit filled individuals,
should they agree to participate, then their involvement would be a
blessing to this challenge and to the development of the World
English Bible.
Tell me, what do think Jesus' Zodiac sign is? Have you done his chart
so we know when he returns and can play numbers in Vegas?
.
|
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|
| User: "Marcia, Bethany and Me" |
|
| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
17 Feb 2004 10:36:29 AM |
|
|
"Marshall, Will, and Holly" <marshallwillandholly@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:729091d2.0402170707.133f2972@posting.google.com...
"Marcia, Bethany and Me" <darylsk@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:<Tv8Yb.530089$X%5.434649@pd7tw2no>...
"Michael Paul Johnson" <mpj@ebible.org> wrote in message
news:books/bible/world-english-faq_1076834394@rtfm.mit.edu...
I have a challenge for you, this challenge is not meant to condemn
your work on the World English Bible but rather to assist in it's
work. I am very interested in the work on the "WEB", for it is
derived from the ASV of 1901. My favorite Bibles are the NKJV,
the RSV and the NASB, and that NASB was derived from the
ASV of 1901. I like the NKJV, the RSV and the NASB, although
each has problems, these Bibles tend to have less problems than
other versions, and these Bibles often use English in an eloquent
fashion. The challenge I propose is that you allow me to choose a
handful of Bible verses (I like the number 17, allow me to choose
17 verses), and we publicly discuss and compare these 17 verses
of "my" choosing on these five usenet groups:
1) alt.bible, 2) alt.christnet.bible, 3) alt.christnet.theology,
4) alt.religion.christian.adventist, and 5)
alt.religion.christian.baptist
(I am both an Adventist and a Baptist). If you are in agreement to
this, my suggestion is that these 17 verses be presented and
discussed over a 17 week period, that one verse be presented and
discussed each week, and that I will post each chosen verse
early each Sunday (the first day of the week). I understand that
the work on the World English Bible is not complete, so if one
of my chosen verses has not yet been addressed by your
volunteers, perhaps they can involve themselves during that
particular week. May God bless your team's efforts and
provide us with a "Great" World English Bible!!!
Daryl Shawn Kabatoff
Box 7134
Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Canada
S7K 4J1
Note: The flood began on the 17th day of the second month and
the ark came to a rest on the 17th day of the seventh month, it
was 150 days later (Genesis 8:4-5), and still there are 150 days
separating these days in our calendars today.
And note that a threefold cord is not easily broken (Ecclesiastes
4:12). If you agree to the challenge, then I will choose 7 of the 17
verses while Cindy and Donna will each get to pick 5 of the
remaining verses. Cindy and Donna are very Spirit filled individuals,
should they agree to participate, then their involvement would be a
blessing to this challenge and to the development of the World
English Bible.
Tell me, what do think Jesus' Zodiac sign is? Have you done his chart
so we know when he returns and can play numbers in Vegas?
You denigrate my work with the mathematics of Scripture by
falsely associating it with astrology. It is hypocritical, for you
are caught up in pagan traditions that have been introduced
into the Christian churches that are linked to the phases of the
moon and the placement of the sun. People repeatedly violated
God's 9th Commandment and had me tortured in psychiatric
facilities, they used my interest in math as one of the reasons
to do this to me. Now you violate God's 9th Commandment
and claim that my work with numbers is divination and is
similar to astrology. I am not fortune telling but am instead
going to the past, to the time when a person was born,
and finding evidence that God provided the individual with
both their life (their birthday) and also with their name
(Isaiah 45:4, Ephesians 3:15).
It was people representing Christian churches who were
upset with my words and lobbied my abusive parents to
have me tortured, then these Protestants and Catholics
sat on psychiatric appeal panel hearings and repeatedly
denied my release and repeatedly gave permission to
predominantly Hindu psychiatrists to torture me. And
it is Protestants and Catholics who continue to violate
God's 9th Commandment and continue to try to make
my life most difficult now. If you want fortune telling
from me, you are compassionless and evil, so I predict
God is goink to spread you people out like dung. You
people made me lose many years of my life, I begged and
begged in vain to break free of the cycle of psychiatric
abuse, I lost summer after summer after summer to
psychiatric torture, and now you probababbly
hypocritically condemn my work while sipping drinks
from the deck of a cruise ship.
Marshall, Will, and Holly, are each of you responsible
for these words you uttered? -Daryl S. Kabatoff
.
|
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|
| User: "The Last Church" |
|
| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
17 Feb 2004 11:03:58 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:36:29 GMT, "Marcia, Bethany and Me"
<darylsk@shaw.ca> wrote:
People repeatedly violated and had me tortured in psychiatric
facilities, It was people representing Christian churches
who were upset with my words and lobbied my abusive
parents to have me tortured, then these Protestants
and Catholics sat on psychiatric appeal panel hearings
and repeatedly denied my release and repeatedly gave
permission to predominantly Hindu psychiatrists to torture me.
And You people made me lose many years of my life.
I begged and begged in vain to break free of the cycle of
psychiatric abuse. I lost summer after summer after summer
to psychiatric torture. -Daryl S. Kabatoff
A man in the nut house was talking to a new patient. He ask
the new guy what psychological illness he had. The new guy exclaimed,
Sir I have no such illness! The older patient told the new guy, "
Sir, if you haven't got one, you better make one up because until
these people cure you of something, they will never let you go."
It is the old "catch 22". I guess it took you along time to figure
that out Daryl. What label did they tag you with?
Michael
..
In the mind of Christ,
Michael
**
A preacher is the blind
leading the blind...
The Last Church
http://www.thelastchurch.org
michael@thelastchurch.org
alt.religion.thelastchurch
alt.religion.the-last-church
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| User: "Thomas" |
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| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
17 Feb 2004 05:55:00 PM |
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:36:29 GMT, "Marcia, Bethany and Me"
<darylsk@shaw.ca> wrote:
o
psychiatric torture, and now you probababbly
hypocritically condemn my work while sipping drinks
from the deck of a cruise ship.
Marshall, Will, and Holly, are each of you responsible
for these words you uttered? -Daryl S. Kabatoff
No, no Daryl, it's Marshall Takayama, Will James and Holly Nospam you
moronic scumbag. <smirk>
Why not take yourself and your perverted, vulgar ranting's out of here
and leave these poor people alone? Come back to a.d.w. where you can
get your butt kicked daily by friends.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.............................................
ALOHA
Reply to group
(Unsolicited e-mail is deleted from the server unread
if it comes from anyone not already in my addressbook.
I'll never even see it)
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| User: "Daryl S. Kabatoff" |
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| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
19 Feb 2004 12:04:52 AM |
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"Thomas" <mauicop@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36a53016qdu9bfc1c0lh67ekojbd7uon03@4ax.com...
<snip>
James Takayama posted libel against me using the name
"nospam", now he frequently quotes this libel using
the name "Thomas." -Daryl S. Kabatoff
HALOHA
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
See Hebrews 4, here is New Testament Scripture
in chapter 4 telling us to remember to honor God's 4th
Commandment. The pre-incarnate Jesus created
heaven and earth and provided us with the Ten
Commandments. Then He came to earth in human form
and abided by His Ten Commandments. Then He was
crucified on the 6th day of the week, RESTED in the
tomb on the 7th day of the week, then rose on the first
day of the week to resume His ministry (His WORK).
He rose on a Sunday to resume His work while the
filthy churches teach you that His rising on a Sunday
changes His day of rest to Sunday.
Let us strive to enter that rest and honor what God
desires that we honor rather than continue to strive
to hold onto the things that our are important to
our friends, family and ourselves. -Daryl S. Kabatoff
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| User: "The Last Church" |
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| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
16 Feb 2004 09:32:26 PM |
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:05:23 GMT, "Marcia, Bethany and Me"
<darkest@shaw.ca> wrote: Nothing much
"Orthodox Christians assembled the Bible not to bring all the gospels
together, but rather to hide the truth. From the plethora of Christian
gospels, Bishop Irenaeus compiled the first list of biblical writings
that resemble today's New Testament around 180 C.E. By 393 and 397,
Bishop Athanasius had a similar list ratified by the Church councils
of Hippo and Carthage. By prohibiting and burning any other writings,
the Catholic Church eventually gave the impression that this Bible and
its four canonized Gospels represented the only original Christian
view. And yet, as late as 450, Theodore of Cyrrhus said that there
were at least 200 different gospels circulating in his own diocese.
Even the Catholic Encyclopedia now admits that the "idea of a complete
and clear-cut canon of the New Testament existing from the
beginning... has no foundation in history."
"You know, it's very interesting to think of the history of
Christianity. During the first five centuries, there were lots of
Christianities, lots of ways of being Christian. And then, in the
period of Theodosius in the fourth century, the only religion allowed
in the Roman Empire was the Christian religion, and the only form of
Christianity allowed in the Roman Empire was the Christianity of
Byzantium's throne."
"From the very first centuries, what was to become Christian orthodoxy
vehemently suppressed those Christians of psychic, shamanic, or
visionary temperament called the Gnostics. The authorities of the
early institutional Church soon established a strict orthodoxy of
doctrine against to which all contrary views were stigmatized as
heretical. When in 313 the Emperor Constantine made Christianity the
official state religion, attempting to syncretize it with various
sun-god cults, Christianity was left to deal with the many cults that
swarmed within the Roman Empire. The monotheistic zeal to convert and
eradicate the diversity of polytheism gave the Church an authoritarian
character that has plagued the West ever since with schisms, councils,
inquisitions, and witch-hunts..."
"It may truly be said that the blackest and bloodiest records that
history can show us are the attacks of the Orthodox Church upon the
Gnostic mystics."
"The persecuted primitive Church of the second century was to become
in the fourth century itself the persecutor, and whereas in the
earlier period Gnostics had been able to engage in theological dispute
with the orthodox, later they were sought out, excommunicated, and
sometimes burnt alive for their heresy."
"... Christians burned down one of the world's greatest libraries in
Alexandria, said to have housed 700,000 rolls. All the books of the
Gnostic Basilides, Porphyry's 36 volumes, papyrus rolls of 27 schools
of the Mysteries, and 270,000 ancient documents gathered by Ptolemy
Philadelphus were burned. Ancient academies of learning were closed.
Education for anyone outside of the Church came to an end..."
"When the great library at Alexandria was ransacked by Christian
fanatics in 387... an inestimable wealth of gnostic literature must
have been destroyed. Until the nineteenth century the main source of
knowledge of Gnosticism was, ironically, in the writings of the Church
Fathers, who in their refutations summarised gnostic texts and often
quoted at length from them.
In the nineteenth and present centuries a number of original gnostic
texts came to light, the most sensational find being an entire library
of fifty-two texts discovered at Nag Hammadi in Upper Egypt in 1946.
These, scholars later ascertained, had belonged to an ascetic
Christian community which, fearing discovery by the ecclesiastical
authorities and the consequences of being charged with heresy, had
sealed up their forbidden library in a large jar and buried it in the
sand beneath a cliff near their monastery in about the year 360."
The truth is set free on earth.
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| User: "Thomas" |
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| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
16 Feb 2004 07:22:56 PM |
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:05:23 GMT, "Marcia, Bethany and Me" stumbled
drunkenly into the group, dropped his pants and left the following
steaming pile:
volunteers, perhaps they can involve themselves during that
particular week. May God bless your team's efforts and
provide us with a "Great" World English Bible!!!
Daryl Shawn Kabatoff-Documented pedophile and
well-known penis worshiper.
<<<snipped a lot of psycho crap from Shawn "pedophile-boy" Kabatoff>>>
The following (courtesy of Waxy.org) is sort of an unofficial "FAQ"
explaining the psychotic nonsense posted to Usenet by Shawn Daryl
Kabatoff AKA "Dar", AKA "Probababbilities". And now AKA "marcia and
me".
WARNING: Read below before even thinking about responding to this
twit.
http://www.waxy.org/archive/2002/05/21/dar_kaba.shtml#000643
Usenet has the tendency to provide a public forum for those who would
normally be scribbling in a closet. For example, take Daryl "Shawn"
Kabatoff. For the last few years, he's methodically gathered
"statistics" from various sources, ranging from local newspaper
obituary pages to the food court of the Saskatoon Midtown Plaza mall.
With all the raw data he's collected, he's attempting to prove daily
that our full names are in "mathematical harmony" with our birthdays.
His rants normally focus on a single individual he's met or read
about, starting with calculations related to their birthdate and full
names, blending in whatever other personal information about their
family members, spouses, birthplace, and career he's been able to
glean. From there, it descends into a mix of numerology, religious
zealotry, and personal torment. I've never seen anything like it.
With all the prime numbers, Fibonacci sequences and biblical
references, it's like reading the notebooks of Maximillian Cohen and
John Nash combined. Unsurprisingly, several posts unfold to reveal a
history of painful mental illness. If you have some time, take a look.
I've detailed his posting history and a several sample posts below.
Usenet Posting History:
January 27, 1999 to July 5, 2000 as
December 9, 2000 to May 4, 2001 as
Oct 30, 2001 to Oct 31, 2001 as
January 20, 2002 to April 17, 2002 as (original
posts have been
removed from Google Groups archive)
April 26, 2002 to Present as
Selected Posts:
Tessa Lynne Smith
Dastageer Sakhizai and Helen Smith
Brett David Maki
Andrew Meredith Cotton
Kathryn Lee Hipperson
Amanda Dawn Newton
Mona Marie Etcheverry
Tony Peter Nuspl
Lisa Charlene McMillan
Grant Allyn Wood
Comments
scarier still is that saskatoon is my hometown, though not my current
residence. and every single place he's mentioned in his posts (most
notably nervous harold's and the roastary) were either places i've
been (as it's a small city of 200K) or hangouts, ie. the two places
mentioned. chances are i could email some friends back home and find
out if they know of him, they (my friends that is) being of the
broadway-centred slacker ilk. myself, too, until i got out of there.
eh, anyways. thought it odd to see all this. midtown mall. i ate my
meals there, whilst waiting several days in line for star wars episode
one, at the theatre across the street.
posted by andy raad on May 22, 2002 06:20 PM
Fascinating. It's like he's trying to take chaos and bind it into
whatever rules he can find, religious, logical and otherwise. Numbers
and math have a reliable pattern, something that can always be proven
to true or false. People and religion do not. It reminds me of Darren
Aronofsky's movie Pi. It's the story of an paraniod genius who is
trying to find a pattern in Pi. A group that takes interest in his
work is convinced that the existence of Pi, a number whose existence
can be proven but no quantified, is proof of the existence of God.
Kabatoff's hunt for patterns in something as random as name selection
is a way to reconcile his deeply logical thought process with his
conflicting religious views.
posted by matt on May 23, 2002 11:19 AM
Exactly. I probably shouldn't have, but I e-mailed Daryl yesterday,
asking him if he'd be willing to create a numerological analysis for
me. I also asked him if he had seen either Pi or A Beautiful Mind, and
what he thought of them. If he replies, I'll be sure to post it.
posted by Andy Baio on May 23, 2002 11:24 AM
I baked many pumpkin pies for Shawn (he likes pumpkin pies). I rubbed
pumpkin pie all over my breasts for him, and my breasts turned orange.
I am a pumpkin for Shawn.
posted by Trisha Blondie on July 24, 2002 10:41 PM
Um, that's swell. So, you're in love with him?
posted by Andy Baio on July 25, 2002 07:10 AM
Shawn once went to a funeral for a Jehovah Witness that shot himself
and the lemon tarts were very bad, they were not only sour but were
rubbery as well. Shawn said that the guy was some kind of Jehovah
Witness prophet, he saw in advance that the lemon tarts at his funeral
were to be very very bad, and so he shot himself. Shawn said that he
never ate pumpkin pie at a funeral but would like to some day. Shawn
likes pumpkin pie and so I have been practicing to make very good
pumpkin pies.
posted by Trisha Blondie on July 25, 2002 02:49 PM
Shawn said that the lemon tarts were sour, bitter and rubbery.
posted by Trisha Blondie on July 30, 2002 12:32 AM
I don't think this guy takes notes. I think he has Total Recall, and
it has driven him insane...
posted by Todd Smith on December 26, 2002 11:00 AM
Oh... I almost forgot... I didnt spend thousands of dollars a day
tormenting Daryl... We got a deal on tormenting that fiscal year, it
only came to about 37cents a day....
posted by Dr Claw on December 30, 2002 01:56 AM
Mr. Kabatoff attempts to portray himself as a victim, but in fact he
is a violent predatory pedophile who is well known to his local law
enforcement. In his post to multiple newsgroups with the subject
"Collecting Mail For The Coming Anti-Christ", he encourages mothers to
send him photos of their naked daughters. Mr Kabatoff explains, "I
personally did not want photographs being mailed to (the coming
Ant-Christ) that were of underage children unless the parent was
signing consent." He is banned from virtually all the shopping malls
in his community because he stalks young people and sexually harasses
them. He has an extensive arrest record which includes sexual
molestation charges. He's been hospitalized in mental institutions
several times because he likes to accost "nubile cuties." He writes
about his contact with young girls in many posts. Search newsgroup
archives for posts by him containing the word "nubile". As part of his
harrassment, he provides personal details in a public forum, such as
the real names of real children, in these and other posts. About one
girl he met at a mall, he writes, "I wanted Callie in my bed or I
wanted her and her sister dead."
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Daryl+Shawn+Kabatoff+dead+or+in+my+bed&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=asqm35%24tjq5j%241%40ID-136124.news.dfncis.de&rnu
He not only curses children and prays for their death in his posts, he
also enjoys attending the funerals of young people: "And so, since
nubile sweeties are found in greatest abundance at the funerals of
high school students, then it is the funerals of high school students
that make the very very best funerals, especially if there is food...
I stuff my face (and my pockets) with all the good food and look at
all the pretty nubile sweeties and have the time of my life..
..http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Daryl+Shawn+Kabatoff+nubile+sex&hl=en&l
r=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=LfXN8.63042%24R53.25142039%40twister.socal.rr.
com&rnum=1
Many of his posts are sent to alt.teens.advice. However, he liberally
spams, floods and crossposts his off-topic threatening and offensive
missives to countless newsgroups. Some people HAVE problems and some
folks ARE problems. Don't dismiss Mr. Kabatoff as a harmless nut. When
he sends these posts to any newgroup, please help by reporting him to
his ISP. Thanks.
posted by nospam on January 5, 2003 04:39 AM
I knew of him when I was attending the University of Saskatchewan.
He'd hang out in the Arts computer lab and all you'd see is screens of
numbers racing by on his laptop. I have an original copy of his
"Collecting Mail for the Coming Anti-Christ" pamphlet, and have seen
him be hauled away by campus security on more than one occasion. My
friends and I refer to him as "Crazy Number Man".
posted by Mr. Somebody on April 10, 2003 11:09 AM
I've been posting to (and about) Shawn for over two years with big
gaps in between. He has seen Pi and didn't like it and didn't think it
resembled him at all. (Wrong, it fits him to a tee) He doesn't have
total recall and has stated that he travels with a lap top to notate
items. Also, he uses "cut n' paste" a lot if you read all the way
through his ramblings. He is anti-social as shown by his angry
statements towards those who, by his own admission, have been kind
(but not kind enough) to him. Still, he's intelligent and seems to be
able to "take a joke" on occassion. That's where I came in.
posted by Gambol on May 19, 2003 02:22
ALOHA
Reply to group
(Unsolicited e-mail is deleted from the server unread
if it comes from anyone not already in my addressbook.
I'll never even see it)
.
|
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| User: "Marcia, Bethany and Me" |
|
| Title: Re: The Great World English Bible Challenge!!! |
17 Feb 2004 03:01:24 AM |
|
|
"Thomas" <mauicop@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2r230d56mk1er5ip0euh4h5ipumka26uu@4ax.com...
<snip>
James Takayama posted libel against me using the name
"nospam", now he frequently quotes this libel using
the name "Thomas." -Daryl S. Kabatoff
HALOHA
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
See Hebrews 4, here is New Testament Scripture
in chapter 4 telling us to remember to honor God's 4th
Commandment. The pre-incarnate Jesus created
heaven and earth and provided us with the Ten
Commandments. Then He came to earth in human form
and abided by His Ten Commandments. Then He was
crucified on the 6th day of the week, RESTED in the
tomb on the 7th day of the week, then rose on the first
day of the week to resume His ministry (His WORK).
He rose on a Sunday to resume His work while the
filthy churches teach you that His rising on a Sunday
changes His day of rest to Sunday.
Let us strive to enter that rest and honor what God
desires that we honor rather than continue to strive
to hold onto the things that our are important to
our friends, family and ourselves. -Daryl S. Kabatoff
.
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