| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"The Laughing Philosopher" |
| Date: |
02 Sep 2003 03:41:58 PM |
| Object: |
The Horrors of Early Christian history |
I have always thought that any ideology that got its footing by tyranny
was illegitimate. Dictators arent legitimate: Religious or secular or
atheist.
YOU?
Historical research and writing by The Laughing Philosopher
(And if any of you Protestants feel good, wait till you see my pages on
Luther and Calvin!!)
=F7=F7=F7=F7=F7
All throughout history, 'true believers' have modeled their intolerance
on the intolerance and cruelty of scripture; killing people for the
wrong religious beliefs; burning them for the purpose of torment and
torture. Right from the pages of the Bible, of course)
People took the draconian commands seriously; persecuting, imprisoning,
torturing, and executing those that "hath gone and served other gods".
The scripture called for death and Christians through the centuries have
insisted on killing people for worshipping other gods and serving them.
Scripture was justification; this is just as their scriptures command as
punishment for having gone and served other gods, and worshipped them.
The justification for killing people by burning them to death for not
being Christian is found in the ultimate example of religious
intolerance: The Christian "Lake of Fire", where it is -what you think-
that gets you there. Not for thinking or acting in terms of malice,
harm or deceit, but just for having the wrong worldview and cosmological
perspective. What we in a free society consider one the essential
requirements that define the ethic of liberty, the Bible calls a "wicked
thing'.
THE DARK AGES BEGIN
The real trouble began when the Emperor Constantine converted to
Christianity. In 316 he began his persecutions against religious liberty
and diversity by outlawing Donatism and bannishing it's adherents. In
325, the Council of Nicaea condemned the teachings of Arius.
Constantine warned the Bishops of Arian Christianity that those that
refused to sign the settlement at the Council of Nicaea would be exiled.
Other heretical Christian sects received a letter that informed them
that their meeting places of fellowship and worship were soon to be
confiscated.
Constantine celebrated his conversion by executing 3000 Christians that
didnt agree with his Trinitarian interpretation of Christianity. That
is more than all of the Christians killed by the Romans in the 1st
century, which is more myth than reality. With Constantine's authority
supporting them the trinitarian bishops who signed Nicaea made their
religious authority the law of the empire. From that point on, the
ruling bishops decided who was to become bishop and what the commn folk
could beieve. Constantine intimidated and oppressed the Pagans,
continuing a strategy of confiscating the great wealth that they had
accumulated. He then proceeded to give this wealth he stole, much of it
precious metals and rare gems, to his Bishops.
Constantine kept slavery alive and well in the Empire. In the tradition
of the Bible's laws, slaves were to obey their masters without
question. And to top it off, Constantine passed a law in which a master
may beat his slaves to death. Constantine seemed to promote families of
slaves staying together but unlike Diocletian before him, he allowed the
newborn infants of slaves to be sold. Slaves that were caught escaping
to seek refuge with Pagans had a foot amputated. Slaves of public
service that were caught leaving town were beaten. Slaves who sought
refuge in churches were returned to their owners by the bishops. Under
Constantine, politics got dirtier, religious intolerance expanded and
Diocletian's spies were replaced by a corrupt, fanatic, secret polce
During this period it became popular to co-opt pagan holidays, repacing
the pagan holiday with Christian names in order to convert pagans
without taking their feasts and holidays away. The birthday
celebration of the son of God, Mithras, and feasts of the winter
solstice became Christmas. It is Mithraism, which began over 600 years
before the Jesus story was written, that may be at the heart of the
Jesus story. Mithras was born of a virgin, in front of shepherds, said
'I am the way' and no one experiences salvation without 'drinking my
blood and eating my flesh', was killed and rose after 3 days, and
inteceded for the righteous in the underworld. Changing the names of
gods and feasts may be at the heart of the rise of Christianity. Vernal
equinox celebrations of fertility and renewal became Christian. We
still see the remnants of the Goddess Eoster with her bunnies and her
eggs.
Christianity adopted pagan practices in order to make their religion
easier to convert to. Devotion to relics, kissing holy objects,
genuflection, holy water, collecting bones of saints, ritual burning of
candles and incense were all pagan rituals adopted as ways to convert.
Prayers to a female goddess were changed to prayers to Mary. Prayers to
deities for rain were changed to prayers to Christian saints.
What we witness here in this new Christian world is the antithesis of
religious liberty. This also means the antithesis of free speech and
writing. Other religions were not respected or tolerated and when the
deceptive tactics of co-opting pagan ritual didnt work, violence and
destruction replaced trickery. Pagan beliefs were finally outlawed and
their temples destroyed. Church father Eusebius helped this by
proclaiming that paganism was actually atheism. Eusebius, regarding
Constantine's government, wrote that nations "found rest and respite
from their ancient miseries, a system and method of government for all
states." He also attacked equality of status and democracy as "anarchy
and dissension rather than a form of government."
Constantine's Laws Favoring Christianity:
Codex Theodosianus XVI.ii.1,2
313, 319CE immunity from burdens of municipal administration and
municipal leviews
Codex Theodosianus XVI.viii.1 315CE
Jews who punish apostates (i.e. converts to Christianity) should be
burned alive; converts to Judaism should be burned alive
Codex Theodosianus I.xxvii.1, IV.vii.1 318, 321CE bishops receive same
judicial powers as magistrates
Codex Theodosianus VIII.xvi.1 320CE
removal of Augustus' restrictions on male and female celibates
Codex Theodosianus XVI.ii.2..321CE
legalization of bequests to churches, churches become residuary legatee
of those who die without heir
Codex Theodosianus XVI.ii.7..330CE..imperial funds support the
construction of churches (this occassioned by the Donatist takeover of a
church at Constantine, North Africa)
Constitutiones Sirmondianae 1..333CE
confirmation of juridical validity of episcopal courts
In his own words:
Codex Theodosianus. XVI.v.1:
"It is necessary that the privileges which are bestowed for the
cultivation of religion should be given only to followers of the
Catholic faith. We desire that heretics and schismatics be not only kept
from these privileges, but be subjected to various fines."
Codex Theodosianus XVI.viii.1:
"We wish to make it known to the Jews and their elders and their
patriarchs that if, after the enactment of this law, any one of them
dares to attack with stones or some other manifestation of anger another
who has fled their dangerous sect and attached himself to the worship of
God [Christianity], he must speedily be given to the flames and burn~
together with all his accomplices."
Codex Theodosianus. XVI.x.4:
"It is decreed that in all places and all cities the temples should be
closed at once, and after a general warning, the opportunity of sinning
be taken from the wicked. We decree also that we shall cease from making
sacrifices. And if anyone has committed such a crime, let him be
stricken with the avenging sword. And we decree that the property of the
one executed shall be claimed by the city, and that rulers of the
provinces be punished in the same way, if they neglect to punish such
crimes."
"Moreover, if any one of the population should join their abominable
sect and attend their meetings, he will bear with them the deserved
penalties."
CONSTANTINE'S ANTI-SEMITISM
Constantine also showed vehement antisemitism in his letter regarding
regarding his decree legalizing the keeping of Easter. This can be read
at: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/const1-easter.html
Excerpts from this letter to those "that missed the council":
"....the Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of
crimes, and whose minds were blinded. In rejecting their custom,(1) we
may transmit to our descendants the legitimate mode of celebrating
Easter, which we have observed from the time of the Saviour's Passion to
the present day[according to the day of the week]. We ought not,
therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews,..."
"...we desire, dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the
detestable company of the Jews,..."
"How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are most certainly blinded
by error? for to celebrate the passover twice in one year is totally
inadmissible. But even if this were not so, it would still be your duty
not to tarnish your soul by communications with such wicked people [the
Jews]."
"You should consider not only that the number of churches in these
provinces make a majority, but also that it is right to demand what our
reason approves, and that we should have nothing in common with the
Jews."
CONSTANTINE DIES
When Constantine died, his three sons took over the empire, each
acquiring a particular region. Fighting over power ensued and when all
was finished, only Constantius stood. Constantius, unlike his father
and brothers, was an Arianist Christian. Thinking that he was promoting
the cause of Christianity he exiled trinitarian Bishops. Constantius
also banned pagan ritual sacrifice of animals and made participation in
them a capital offense. Following the examples set down by
Constantius, mobs of Christians attacked Pagan temples and destroyed
their shrines and altars.
Codex Theodosianus. 16.10.2; 341CE:
"Sacrifice Prohibited.": "Let superstition cease and the folly of
sacrifices be abolished. Whoever has dared in the face of the law of the
divine prince, our father [Constantine] ... to make sacrifices, shall
have appropriate penalty, and immediate sentence dealt to him."
Codex Theodosianus. 16.10.4; 346CE:
"All Temples Closed and Sacrifices Forbidden." "but if any one commit
any offense of this sort, let him fall by the avenging sword," and his
property forfeited; judges neglecting to "mete out penalties for these
offenses, they shall be similarly punished."
Imperical Decree. 16.10.6; 356CE:
"Sacrificing and Idolatry Punishable by Death." "We order that all found
guilty of attending sacrifices or of worshipping idols shall suffer
capital punishment."
Constantius banned the intermarriage between Jewsh men and Christian
women. Jewish husbands were to be put to death for seducing Christian
women to embrace Judaism. This action criminalized proselytizing under
penalty of death. Although slavery was extremely common, Constantius
took away the Jews' right to own slaves, especially Christian slaves, in
a time when economic prosperity depended on the slave trade. This put
Jews at a financial disadvantage gave Christians special rights, which
was probably the intent. One has to wonder how many people converted to
receive these special rigts. And to top it off, if a Jewish slaveowner
had his slave circumcized he would be fined and face the possbility of
being executed.
In 339CE Constantius issued these decrees regarding Jews
Codex Theodosianus, 16.8.6:
"This pertains to women, who live in our weaving factories and whom
Jews, in their foulness, take in marriage. It is decreed that these
women are to be restored to the weaving factories. [Marriages between
Jews and Christian women of the imperial weaving factory are to be
dissolved.]"
"This prohibition [of intermarriage] is to be preserved for the future
lest the Jews induce Christian women to share their shameful lives. If
they do this they will subject themselves to a sentence of death. [The
Jewish husbands are to be punished with death.]"
Codex Theodosianus 16.9.2:
"if any one among the Jews has purchased a slave of another sect or
nation, that slave shall at once be appropriated for the imperial
treasury."
"If, indeed, he shall have circumcised the slave whom he has purchased,
he will not only be fined for the damage done to that slave but he will
also receive capital punishment."
"If, indeed, a Jew does not hesitate to purchase slaves-those who are
members of the faith that is worthy of respect [Christianity] then all
these slaves who are found in his possession shall at once be removed.
No delay shall be occasioned, but he is to be deprived of the possession
of those men who are Christians."
A generation later, in 388, all marriages between Jews and Christians
were forbidden. Constantius also did away with the right of Jews to
possess slaves.
GRATIAN
The young emperor Gratian resented Paganism and its popularity with its
400 temples in Rome alone. Gratian helped move Rome from state supported
Paganism to state supported Christianity. In the Senate there was a
Pagan altar, the Statue of Victory, on which Senators had sworn to serve
and obey the emperor and the laws of the empire. Gratian, with much
persuasion from Bishop Ambrose, sought to remove the statue from the
senate Symmachus, a pagan senator pleaded for tolerance from the
Christians. Symmachus argued for the right of pagans to pass on Rome's
great traditions to their children. Tradition, he pleaded. Ambrose
would have none of this talk of tolerance and urged Gratianan to carry
out his plan. The Statue of Victory was taken down. In 384 and 391,
Pagans sought to restore the statue but Bishop Ambrose prevailed again.
Like so many 'true believers' of Christian history, Ambrose believed in
the forced domination of Christianity over society 'for its own good'.
Ambrose's intolerance went so far as to speak out against any Christian
marrying a Pagan.
A century after Constantine's Council of Nicea, the east's Emperor
Theodosius banned all pagan worship, destroyed their temples and with
Gratian made Christianity the only acceptable religion of the empire. By
formally banning any religion other than Christianity, Europe embarked
on a long journey of religious intolerance that wouldn't be overcome
until the European Enlightenment and the American experiment.
In February of 380 Theodosius and Gratian issued their decree which
wiped out religious diversity and any religious liberty that remained:
Codex Theodosianus 16.1.2:
"It is our desire that all the various nation which are subject to our
clemency and moderation, should continue to the profession of that
religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter,
as it has been preserved by faithful tradition and which is now
professed by the Pontiff Damasus and by Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a
man of apostolic holiness. According to the apostolic teaching and the
doctrine of the Gospel, let us believe in the one diety of the father,
Son and Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity. We
authorize the followers of this law to assume the title Catholic
Christians; but as for the others, since in out judgment they are
foolish madmen, we decree that the shall be branded with the ignominious
name of heretics, and shall not presume to give their conventicles the
name of churches. They will suffer in the first place the chastisement
of divine condemnation an the second the punishment of our authority, in
accordance with the will of heaven shall decide to inflict."
Arianism was again thriving in Constantinople. Theodosius took the
Constantine's Council of Nicea seriously and not only banned Pagan
worship but persecuted Christians that followed the non-trinitarian
teachings of Arius. Theodosius issued a decree in November of 380 and
all Arian churches and properties were confiscated and their meetings
were banned. Gregory of Naziaznus, a leader of the Catholic Nicene
community was given all of the churches stolen by Theodosius. The decree
stated that the Christian Doctrine of the Trinity would be the State
Religion and all of his subjects must adhere to it.
Then in 381CE Theodosius made sure that if any Christian became a Pagan
he lost his rights to make a will.
Codex Theodosianus 16.7.1:
"Wills of Apostate Christians to be Set Aside":
"The right of making a will shall be taken from Christians who become
pagans; and if such persons make wills, they shall be set aside without
regard to circumstances."
As was done to Pagan writings, the writings of Arius were hunted down
and destroyed. According to Theodosius' announcement, heretics were
demented and insane. All across the empire, the church hierarchy
thought all this intolerance was a great idea. Manicheans, who lost
their civil rights and faced death in an edict of 382, disagreed. In
this edict Theodosius also ordered the death penalty for the the
Encratites, who were considered Manich=E6ans in disguise.
Showing a blatant disregard for the concepts of equality and any fair
rule of law, Theodosius then gave the Christian clergy immunity from
trial. He also outlawed all sunday activities of a non-religious
nature. It is during Theodosius' reign that Christmas and Easter become
legal holidays.
Continuing to rule as a dictator, Theodosius contrived to destroy the
lives of those that found Christianity wanting he instituted Codex
Theodosianus 16.7.2; 383CE:
"The Right to Bequeath or Inherit Property Denied Apostates": "We deny
to Christians and the faithful who have adopted pagan rites and religion
all power of making a will in favor of any person whatsoever, in order
that they may be without the Roman law [outlaws]; ... even of enjoying a
will with the power of acquiring an inheritance."
Imperial Decree 16.7.3. 383CE continued:
"The Right of Making a Will Denied Christians Who enter Temples."
Edward Gibbon writes:
"A special commission was granted to
Cynegius, the Praetorian praefect of the
East, and afterwards to the counts Jovius
and Gaudentius, two officers of distinguished
rank in the West, by which they were directed
to shut the temples, to seize or destroy the
instruments of idolatry, to abolish the privileges of the
priests, and to confiscate the
consecrated property for the benefit of the
emperor, of the church, or of the army."
Try, try, and try again. In the February 391. the emperor Theodosius
renewed the ban of any sacrifice, public or private and outlawed the
traditional ceremonies of State still in use in Rome. Theodosius made an
important move to eliminate all religious liberty and diversity by
prohibiting access and shutting down temples and sanctuaries: "nobody
can approach the sacrifical altars, can walk inside the temples or can
worship images forged by human hands." A part of this decree dealt with
backsliders, who, if they became apostate, lost all their inheritance
and testamentary rights. This made it impossible for them to pass their
estate on to their relatives. After Theodosius' decree, the state
confiscated their properties and possessions.
Testamentary Disqualification for Christian Apostates:
Imperial Decree 16.7.4 391CE:
"Those who betray the sacred faith and profane holy baptism are shut off
from association of all and from giving testimony. ... They may not
exercise the right of making a will, nor enter upon any inheritance;
they may not be made anyone's heir."
In June 391, Theodosius issued a decree that legitimized the destruction
of Pagan Temples and shrine. Evangelism already included the
destruction of Pagan temples but now it was legal. Not that it had
stopped zealous monks claiming a higher law in support of their arson
and demolition. Ambrose was certainly pleased with Theodosius'
legalization of the destruction of pagan buildings and the outlawing of
their beliefs. Alexandria's bishop Teophilus began a systematic
campaign of destruction of the pagan temples.
As noted above, as early as "Wills of Apostate Christians to be Set
Aside":
"The right of making a will shall be taken from Christians who become
pagans; and if such persons make wills, they shall be set aside without
regard to circumstances." (Cod. Theod. xvi, 7, 1; 381: cf. Cod. Justin.
i, 7, 2; 382.)
4CE, Cygenius, Praetorian Prefect of the east used soldiers and mobs of
wild zealots for the destruction of Pagan temples.
Richard Fletcher notes in "The Barbarian Conversion",
"Miracles, wonders, exorcisms, temple
torching and shrine smashing were in
themselves acts of evangelization.'
Archeological evidence support all this:
"At the temple of Mercury of Avalon in
Burgandy, pagan statues were smashed
and piled up in a heap of rubble: the coin
series at the site ends in the reign of
Valentinian (364-375)"
Christians loved Theodosius' acts of intolerance and the establishment
of a state religion. Zealous mobs of 'true believers' were incited by
this and joined in to rob and destroy temples and their libraries. Many
beautiful buildings of Grecian architecture were lost along with
writings and of course, liberty.
In Alexandria Teophilis wanted to set an example. With the Prefect
Evagrius and soldiers from the garrison Teophilis started to demolish
the Temple of Serapis. Mobs of zealous Christians joined in the
destruction. Temples were soon destroyed in Petra, Areopolis, Canopus,
Heliopolis, Gaza and many other cities.
In Gaul, one of the most fanatical and most aggressive was Martin,
Bishop of Tours. Martin was confrontational and violent, disrupting
Pagan religious cermonies and destroying their temples, shrines and
altars. Some believe that Martin, like Bishop Teophilis in Alexandria,
used the local garrisons of soldiers to do his dirty work. And after
destroying a temple, Martin would keep the land and build a church on
the pagan ruins.
In November of 392 Theodosius issued another totalitarian decree. In
"Theodosius: The Empire at Bay", historians Williams and Friell write, "
the decree was characterized by an absolute intransigence towards the
local traditions that can be compared to that one of a dictatorial
atheistic regimen which criminalized Easter eggs, the palm, Christmas
cards, Halloween pumpkins and even some universal habits, as a toast ".
This decree instituted the death penalty for carrying out Pagan
practices and rituals and the confiscation of the property that was used
for such practices.
Judaism began to draw the attention of Christian leaders, zealots and
'true believers'. Heretics were demented and insane, Pagans were
persecuted and now Judaism was seen as another work of the devil. But
pagans didnt reject Jesus as the Jews had and 'true believers' saw Jews
as carnal, lustful Christ killers who didnt equate sexuality with filth.
By the 4th century, torchlight meetings were full of slogans regarding
Jews and Jew lovers. Anti-Semitism became a Christian duty to 'true
believers'. Not only would Pagan temples burn, so would Jewish
Synagogues.
But there was a problem. It was the rule of law in Rome. Under Roman
law any Jew that was a citizen was protected. Therefore it was unlawful
to burn down Jewish Synagogues so Theodosius required the Church to pay
for the damage done by Christians. Bishop Ambrose would have none of
this. Ambrose told Theodosius that he was threatening the Church's
prestige by protecting Synagogues and Jews in such a way and convinced
Theodosius to let the destruction of Jewish Synagogues stand. This led
to more and more Synagogues being burned all across the empire. Jews in
Judea saw their villages set ablaze by 'true believers'. Jews all
across the empire saw their priviledges of citizenship taken away. They
were forbidden to hold public office and military leadership positions.
They were not to proselytize Christians or intermarry with them.
Theodosius acted on many of Ambroses views on Pagans and banned the
Olympic Games because they were, after all, pagan. Theodosius' religious
jihad prompted Pagans in the east to defend their freedom to worship but
Theodosius would have none of that and became even more dangerous.
At a point, Pagans had a friend in the nominally Christian Eugenius in
the west. Talk of restoring the Statue of Victory arose again and with
support from Eugenius. But again, Ambrose and Theodosius would have
none of any pagan tradition and moved against them. After showering
Eugenius' representatives with gifts and telling them that his position
in Rome was secure, Theodosius made war plans. Theodosius had already
made Pagan worship punishable by death, so when moved against Eugenius,
killing him, he wiped out all remnants of religious liberty that he
could find in the western part of the empire.
Temple and Synagogue burning continued under Theodosius as bishops and
monks incited mobs of angry and intolerant Christians to attack the
Pagans and Jews.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>>>>>
After Theodosius I died, his son Arcadius became emperor and a new
player, the vehemently antisemitic John Chrysostom, came onto the scene.
Chrysotom lectured crowds of Christians, incitiing hatred of the Jews,
saying where Jews gathered "there the cross was ridiculed" and "the
grace of the spirit rejected".
In Antioch, Chrysostom delivered his homilies against the Jews. See
Medieval Sourcebook:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/chrysostom-jews6.html
"The Jews are the most worthless of all men... They are perfidious
murderers of Christ. They worship the devil, their religion is a
sickness..."
In describing the Jews and especially the religion of Judaism,
Chrysostom uses loaded words such as "ignoramuses", "impious",
"wretches", "dogs", "Jewish wolves", "bull-headed", "brutes", "wild
beasts", They have driven Christ away. Their Synagogues are "dens of
brigands", the "abode of Satan". They have crucified Christ and their
souls are the "abode of the devil" and "the Jewish Disease" must be
guarded against". Jews are thieves, impure, debauchees, rapacious,
misers, crafty, oppressors of the poor; Israel is dispersed because
they murdered Christ; Jews call the cross an abomination and whose
religion is null and useless to those who know the true faith.
THE LAW OF THEODOSIUS II: Decreed January 31, 439: Novella III:
Concerning Jews, Samaritans, Heretics, And Pagans:
"Wherefore, although according to an old saying [of the Greek
Hippocrates, the "father" of medicine] "no cure is to be applied in
desperate sicknesses," nevertheless, in order that these dangerous sects
which are unmindful of our times may not spread into life the more
freely, in indiscriminate disorder as it were, we ordain by this law to
be valid for all time:
"No Jew - or no Samaritan who subscribes to neither [the Jewish nor the
Christian] religion - shall obtain offices and dignities; to none shall
the administration of city service be permitted; nor shall any one
exercise the office of a defender [that is, overseer] of the city.
Indeed, we believe it sinful that the enemies of the heavenly majesty
and of the Roman laws should become the executors of our laws - the
administration of which they have slyly obtained and that they,
fortified by the authority of the acquired rank, should have the power
to judge or decide as they wish against Christians, yes, frequently even
over bishops of our holy religion themselves, and thus, as it were,
insult our faith."
"Moreover, for the same reason, we forbid that any synagogue shall rise
as a new building. [Fewer synagogues meant less chance of Christians
becoming Jews.] However, the propping up of old synagogues which are now
threatened with imminent ruin is permitted. To these things we add that
he who misleads a slave or a freeman against his will or by punishable
advice, from the service of the Christian religion to that of an
abominable sect and ritual, is to be punished by loss of property and
life. [That is, the Jew who converts any one to Judaism loses life and
property.]"
"On the one hand, whoever has built a synagogue must realize that he has
worked to the advantage of the Catholic church [which will confiscate
the building]; on the other hand, whoever has already secured the badge
of office shall not hold the dignities he has acquired. On the contrary,
he who worms himself into office must remain, as before, in the lowest
rank even though he will have already earned an honorary office. And as
for him who begins the building of a synagogue and is not moved by the
desire of repairing it, he shall be punished by a fine of fifty pounds
gold for his daring. Moreover, if he will have prevailed with his evil
teachings over the faith of another, he shall see his wealth confiscated
and himself soon subjected to a death sentence."
"And since it behooves the imperial majesty to consider everything with
such foresight that the general welfare does not suffer in the least, we
ordain that the tax-paying officeholders of all towns as well as the
provincial civil servants - who are obligated to employ their wealth and
to make public gifts as part of their burdensome and diverse official
and military duties hall remain in their own classes, no matter what
sect they belong to. Let it not appear as if we have accorded the
benefit of exemption to those men, detestable in their insolent
maneuvering, whom we wish to condemn by the authority of this law. [Jews
have to accept financially ruinous public offices without hope of
exemption.]"
"This further limitation is to be observed, namely, that these public
servants from these above mentioned sects shall never, as far as private
affairs are concerned, carry out judicial sentences, nor be wardens of
the jail. This is done in order that Christians, as it sometimes
happens, may not be hidden away and suffer a double imprisonment through
the hatred of the guards- [imprisonment is bad enough without having a
Jewish jailer.] And furthermore it may be doubted that they have been
justly imprisoned."
Under Theodosius II, Cyril became the Bishop of Alexandria in 412, but
not before his supporters and supporters of his rival Timotheus had a
riot. Cyril drove out the Jews and plundered all the Novatian Christian
churches in Alexandria. Novatians had also been persecuted by the
vengeful Decius, the deeply religious, traditionalist, conservative
pagan, Diocletian and the Arian Christian emperor, Flavius Valens. In a
fine example of the persecuted becoming the persecutors, which has been
a continuing theme of Christian history, Valens persecuted Nicene
Trinitarian Christians who had persecuted them. And of course, Valens
persecuted Pagans as almost all Christian leaders had done since
Constantine's persecutions of Pagans. And lets not forget that Arian
Christians were outlawed by the Council of Nicea. 3000 Arian Christian
heads rolled at Constantine's order.
What Cyril was doing to the Novatian Christians and their churches had
160 years of persecution behind it, going back to Decius' edict in 250
and Pope Cornelius' election in 251. Corenelius, in 250, had written
Fabius of Antioch and told him that Novatia was possessed by Satan. The
persecution of heresies by those in power who decide which beliefs are
heresies, just went round and round and round. The persecuted becoming
the persecutors, taking their turns depending on who was deciding what
was heresy at a given time.
Cyril's mobs of hermits, monks amnd zealous Christians plundered
synagogues, burned down libraries, and massacred the Jews and pagans
they met on the way. All this deeply angered the Prefect, Orestes. Mob
violence and riots seemed to be the theme of Alexandria's religious
community at this time. In one riot in which 500 zealous monks invaded
the city to help Cyril, the monk Ammonius hit the Orestes in the head
with a stone. The Prefect executed him and then Cyril celebrates his
martydom.
It wasnt long before Cyril's mob attacked the elderly and celebrated
woman, Hypatia. Hypatia was a Neo-Palatonst, a teacher of philosophy
and a brillant mathematician. To Cyril, Hypatia was a pagan and was
influenced by the devil. Her rare accomplishments for the time and her
prestige made her a perfect target of hatred. In 415 a Christian mob,
reportedly lead by Cyril, murdered Hypatia by dragging her from her
chariot, stripped her flesh from her bones while alive with sharpened
abalone shells, and then threw her body into a fire.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
SOURCES and further reading:
http://community-2.webtv.net/headbands/BIBLIORELIGIOUSLIBER/
.
|
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| User: "J.B." |
|
| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
02 Sep 2003 04:52:34 PM |
|
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"The Laughing Philosopher" <headbands@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:27449-3F550096-685@storefull-2354.public.lawson.webtv.net...
I have always thought that any ideology that got its footing by tyranny
was illegitimate. Dictators arent legitimate: Religious or secular or
atheist.
YOU?
Historical research and writing by The Laughing Philosopher
(And if any of you Protestants feel good, wait till you see my pages on
Luther and Calvin!!)
÷÷÷÷÷
All throughout history, 'true believers' have modeled their intolerance
on the intolerance and cruelty of scripture; killing people for the
wrong religious beliefs; burning them for the purpose of torment and
torture. Right from the pages of the Bible, of course)
People took the draconian commands seriously; persecuting, imprisoning,
torturing, and executing those that "hath gone and served other gods".
The scripture called for death and Christians through the centuries have
insisted on killing people for worshipping other gods and serving them.
Scripture was justification; this is just as their scriptures command as
punishment for having gone and served other gods, and worshipped them.
The justification for killing people by burning them to death for not
being Christian is found in the ultimate example of religious
intolerance: The Christian "Lake of Fire", where it is -what you think-
that gets you there. Not for thinking or acting in terms of malice,
harm or deceit, but just for having the wrong worldview and cosmological
perspective. What we in a free society consider one the essential
requirements that define the ethic of liberty, the Bible calls a "wicked
thing'.
THE DARK AGES BEGIN
The real trouble began when the Emperor Constantine converted to
Christianity. In 316 he began his persecutions against religious liberty
and diversity by outlawing Donatism and bannishing it's adherents. In
325, the Council of Nicaea condemned the teachings of Arius.
Constantine warned the Bishops of Arian Christianity that those that
refused to sign the settlement at the Council of Nicaea would be exiled.
Other heretical Christian sects received a letter that informed them
that their meeting places of fellowship and worship were soon to be
confiscated.
Constantine celebrated his conversion by executing 3000 Christians that
didnt agree with his Trinitarian interpretation of Christianity. That
is more than all of the Christians killed by the Romans in the 1st
century, which is more myth than reality. With Constantine's authority
supporting them the trinitarian bishops who signed Nicaea made their
religious authority the law of the empire. From that point on, the
ruling bishops decided who was to become bishop and what the commn folk
could beieve. Constantine intimidated and oppressed the Pagans,
continuing a strategy of confiscating the great wealth that they had
accumulated. He then proceeded to give this wealth he stole, much of it
precious metals and rare gems, to his Bishops.
Constantine kept slavery alive and well in the Empire. In the tradition
of the Bible's laws, slaves were to obey their masters without
question. And to top it off, Constantine passed a law in which a master
may beat his slaves to death. Constantine seemed to promote families of
slaves staying together but unlike Diocletian before him, he allowed the
newborn infants of slaves to be sold. Slaves that were caught escaping
to seek refuge with Pagans had a foot amputated. Slaves of public
service that were caught leaving town were beaten. Slaves who sought
refuge in churches were returned to their owners by the bishops. Under
Constantine, politics got dirtier, religious intolerance expanded and
Diocletian's spies were replaced by a corrupt, fanatic, secret polce
During this period it became popular to co-opt pagan holidays, repacing
the pagan holiday with Christian names in order to convert pagans
without taking their feasts and holidays away. The birthday
celebration of the son of God, Mithras, and feasts of the winter
solstice became Christmas. It is Mithraism, which began over 600 years
before the Jesus story was written, that may be at the heart of the
Jesus story. Mithras was born of a virgin, in front of shepherds, said
'I am the way' and no one experiences salvation without 'drinking my
blood and eating my flesh', was killed and rose after 3 days, and
inteceded for the righteous in the underworld. Changing the names of
gods and feasts may be at the heart of the rise of Christianity. Vernal
equinox celebrations of fertility and renewal became Christian. We
still see the remnants of the Goddess Eoster with her bunnies and her
eggs.
Christianity adopted pagan practices in order to make their religion
easier to convert to. Devotion to relics, kissing holy objects,
genuflection, holy water, collecting bones of saints, ritual burning of
candles and incense were all pagan rituals adopted as ways to convert.
Prayers to a female goddess were changed to prayers to Mary. Prayers to
deities for rain were changed to prayers to Christian saints.
What we witness here in this new Christian world is the antithesis of
religious liberty. This also means the antithesis of free speech and
writing. Other religions were not respected or tolerated and when the
deceptive tactics of co-opting pagan ritual didnt work, violence and
destruction replaced trickery. Pagan beliefs were finally outlawed and
their temples destroyed. Church father Eusebius helped this by
proclaiming that paganism was actually atheism. Eusebius, regarding
Constantine's government, wrote that nations "found rest and respite
from their ancient miseries, a system and method of government for all
states." He also attacked equality of status and democracy as "anarchy
and dissension rather than a form of government."
Constantine's Laws Favoring Christianity:
Codex Theodosianus XVI.ii.1,2
313, 319CE immunity from burdens of municipal administration and
municipal leviews
Codex Theodosianus XVI.viii.1 315CE
Jews who punish apostates (i.e. converts to Christianity) should be
burned alive; converts to Judaism should be burned alive
Codex Theodosianus I.xxvii.1, IV.vii.1 318, 321CE bishops receive same
judicial powers as magistrates
Codex Theodosianus VIII.xvi.1 320CE
removal of Augustus' restrictions on male and female celibates
Codex Theodosianus XVI.ii.2..321CE
legalization of bequests to churches, churches become residuary legatee
of those who die without heir
Codex Theodosianus XVI.ii.7..330CE..imperial funds support the
construction of churches (this occassioned by the Donatist takeover of a
church at Constantine, North Africa)
Constitutiones Sirmondianae 1..333CE
confirmation of juridical validity of episcopal courts
In his own words:
Codex Theodosianus. XVI.v.1:
"It is necessary that the privileges which are bestowed for the
cultivation of religion should be given only to followers of the
Catholic faith. We desire that heretics and schismatics be not only kept
from these privileges, but be subjected to various fines."
Codex Theodosianus XVI.viii.1:
"We wish to make it known to the Jews and their elders and their
patriarchs that if, after the enactment of this law, any one of them
dares to attack with stones or some other manifestation of anger another
who has fled their dangerous sect and attached himself to the worship of
God [Christianity], he must speedily be given to the flames and burn~
together with all his accomplices."
Codex Theodosianus. XVI.x.4:
"It is decreed that in all places and all cities the temples should be
closed at once, and after a general warning, the opportunity of sinning
be taken from the wicked. We decree also that we shall cease from making
sacrifices. And if anyone has committed such a crime, let him be
stricken with the avenging sword. And we decree that the property of the
one executed shall be claimed by the city, and that rulers of the
provinces be punished in the same way, if they neglect to punish such
crimes."
"Moreover, if any one of the population should join their abominable
sect and attend their meetings, he will bear with them the deserved
penalties."
CONSTANTINE'S ANTI-SEMITISM
Constantine also showed vehement antisemitism in his letter regarding
regarding his decree legalizing the keeping of Easter. This can be read
at: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/const1-easter.html
Excerpts from this letter to those "that missed the council":
"....the Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of
crimes, and whose minds were blinded. In rejecting their custom,(1) we
may transmit to our descendants the legitimate mode of celebrating
Easter, which we have observed from the time of the Saviour's Passion to
the present day[according to the day of the week]. We ought not,
therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews,..."
"...we desire, dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the
detestable company of the Jews,..."
"How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are most certainly blinded
by error? for to celebrate the passover twice in one year is totally
inadmissible. But even if this were not so, it would still be your duty
not to tarnish your soul by communications with such wicked people [the
Jews]."
"You should consider not only that the number of churches in these
provinces make a majority, but also that it is right to demand what our
reason approves, and that we should have nothing in common with the
Jews."
CONSTANTINE DIES
When Constantine died, his three sons took over the empire, each
acquiring a particular region. Fighting over power ensued and when all
was finished, only Constantius stood. Constantius, unlike his father
and brothers, was an Arianist Christian. Thinking that he was promoting
the cause of Christianity he exiled trinitarian Bishops. Constantius
also banned pagan ritual sacrifice of animals and made participation in
them a capital offense. Following the examples set down by
Constantius, mobs of Christians attacked Pagan temples and destroyed
their shrines and altars.
Codex Theodosianus. 16.10.2; 341CE:
"Sacrifice Prohibited.": "Let superstition cease and the folly of
sacrifices be abolished. Whoever has dared in the face of the law of the
divine prince, our father [Constantine] ... to make sacrifices, shall
have appropriate penalty, and immediate sentence dealt to him."
Codex Theodosianus. 16.10.4; 346CE:
"All Temples Closed and Sacrifices Forbidden." "but if any one commit
any offense of this sort, let him fall by the avenging sword," and his
property forfeited; judges neglecting to "mete out penalties for these
offenses, they shall be similarly punished."
Imperical Decree. 16.10.6; 356CE:
"Sacrificing and Idolatry Punishable by Death." "We order that all found
guilty of attending sacrifices or of worshipping idols shall suffer
capital punishment."
Constantius banned the intermarriage between Jewsh men and Christian
women. Jewish husbands were to be put to death for seducing Christian
women to embrace Judaism. This action criminalized proselytizing under
penalty of death. Although slavery was extremely common, Constantius
took away the Jews' right to own slaves, especially Christian slaves, in
a time when economic prosperity depended on the slave trade. This put
Jews at a financial disadvantage gave Christians special rights, which
was probably the intent. One has to wonder how many people converted to
receive these special rigts. And to top it off, if a Jewish slaveowner
had his slave circumcized he would be fined and face the possbility of
being executed.
In 339CE Constantius issued these decrees regarding Jews
Codex Theodosianus, 16.8.6:
"This pertains to women, who live in our weaving factories and whom
Jews, in their foulness, take in marriage. It is decreed that these
women are to be restored to the weaving factories. [Marriages between
Jews and Christian women of the imperial weaving factory are to be
dissolved.]"
"This prohibition [of intermarriage] is to be preserved for the future
lest the Jews induce Christian women to share their shameful lives. If
they do this they will subject themselves to a sentence of death. [The
Jewish husbands are to be punished with death.]"
Codex Theodosianus 16.9.2:
"if any one among the Jews has purchased a slave of another sect or
nation, that slave shall at once be appropriated for the imperial
treasury."
"If, indeed, he shall have circumcised the slave whom he has purchased,
he will not only be fined for the damage done to that slave but he will
also receive capital punishment."
"If, indeed, a Jew does not hesitate to purchase slaves-those who are
members of the faith that is worthy of respect [Christianity] then all
these slaves who are found in his possession shall at once be removed.
No delay shall be occasioned, but he is to be deprived of the possession
of those men who are Christians."
A generation later, in 388, all marriages between Jews and Christians
were forbidden. Constantius also did away with the right of Jews to
possess slaves.
GRATIAN
The young emperor Gratian resented Paganism and its popularity with its
400 temples in Rome alone. Gratian helped move Rome from state supported
Paganism to state supported Christianity. In the Senate there was a
Pagan altar, the Statue of Victory, on which Senators had sworn to serve
and obey the emperor and the laws of the empire. Gratian, with much
persuasion from Bishop Ambrose, sought to remove the statue from the
senate Symmachus, a pagan senator pleaded for tolerance from the
Christians. Symmachus argued for the right of pagans to pass on Rome's
great traditions to their children. Tradition, he pleaded. Ambrose
would have none of this talk of tolerance and urged Gratianan to carry
out his plan. The Statue of Victory was taken down. In 384 and 391,
Pagans sought to restore the statue but Bishop Ambrose prevailed again.
Like so many 'true believers' of Christian history, Ambrose believed in
the forced domination of Christianity over society 'for its own good'.
Ambrose's intolerance went so far as to speak out against any Christian
marrying a Pagan.
A century after Constantine's Council of Nicea, the east's Emperor
Theodosius banned all pagan worship, destroyed their temples and with
Gratian made Christianity the only acceptable religion of the empire. By
formally banning any religion other than Christianity, Europe embarked
on a long journey of religious intolerance that wouldn't be overcome
until the European Enlightenment and the American experiment.
In February of 380 Theodosius and Gratian issued their decree which
wiped out religious diversity and any religious liberty that remained:
Codex Theodosianus 16.1.2:
"It is our desire that all the various nation which are subject to our
clemency and moderation, should continue to the profession of that
religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter,
as it has been preserved by faithful tradition and which is now
professed by the Pontiff Damasus and by Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a
man of apostolic holiness. According to the apostolic teaching and the
doctrine of the Gospel, let us believe in the one diety of the father,
Son and Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity. We
authorize the followers of this law to assume the title Catholic
Christians; but as for the others, since in out judgment they are
foolish madmen, we decree that the shall be branded with the ignominious
name of heretics, and shall not presume to give their conventicles the
name of churches. They will suffer in the first place the chastisement
of divine condemnation an the second the punishment of our authority, in
accordance with the will of heaven shall decide to inflict."
Arianism was again thriving in Constantinople. Theodosius took the
Constantine's Council of Nicea seriously and not only banned Pagan
worship but persecuted Christians that followed the non-trinitarian
teachings of Arius. Theodosius issued a decree in November of 380 and
all Arian churches and properties were confiscated and their meetings
were banned. Gregory of Naziaznus, a leader of the Catholic Nicene
community was given all of the churches stolen by Theodosius. The decree
stated that the Christian Doctrine of the Trinity would be the State
Religion and all of his subjects must adhere to it.
Then in 381CE Theodosius made sure that if any Christian became a Pagan
he lost his rights to make a will.
Codex Theodosianus 16.7.1:
"Wills of Apostate Christians to be Set Aside":
"The right of making a will shall be taken from Christians who become
pagans; and if such persons make wills, they shall be set aside without
regard to circumstances."
As was done to Pagan writings, the writings of Arius were hunted down
and destroyed. According to Theodosius' announcement, heretics were
demented and insane. All across the empire, the church hierarchy
thought all this intolerance was a great idea. Manicheans, who lost
their civil rights and faced death in an edict of 382, disagreed. In
this edict Theodosius also ordered the death penalty for the the
Encratites, who were considered Manichæans in disguise.
Showing a blatant disregard for the concepts of equality and any fair
rule of law, Theodosius then gave the Christian clergy immunity from
trial. He also outlawed all sunday activities of a non-religious
nature. It is during Theodosius' reign that Christmas and Easter become
legal holidays.
Continuing to rule as a dictator, Theodosius contrived to destroy the
lives of those that found Christianity wanting he instituted Codex
Theodosianus 16.7.2; 383CE:
"The Right to Bequeath or Inherit Property Denied Apostates": "We deny
to Christians and the faithful who have adopted pagan rites and religion
all power of making a will in favor of any person whatsoever, in order
that they may be without the Roman law [outlaws]; ... even of enjoying a
will with the power of acquiring an inheritance."
Imperial Decree 16.7.3. 383CE continued:
"The Right of Making a Will Denied Christians Who enter Temples."
Edward Gibbon writes:
"A special commission was granted to
Cynegius, the Praetorian praefect of the
East, and afterwards to the counts Jovius
and Gaudentius, two officers of distinguished
rank in the West, by which they were directed
to shut the temples, to seize or destroy the
instruments of idolatry, to abolish the privileges of the
priests, and to confiscate the
consecrated property for the benefit of the
emperor, of the church, or of the army."
Try, try, and try again. In the February 391. the emperor Theodosius
renewed the ban of any sacrifice, public or private and outlawed the
traditional ceremonies of State still in use in Rome. Theodosius made an
important move to eliminate all religious liberty and diversity by
prohibiting access and shutting down temples and sanctuaries: "nobody
can approach the sacrifical altars, can walk inside the temples or can
worship images forged by human hands." A part of this decree dealt with
backsliders, who, if they became apostate, lost all their inheritance
and testamentary rights. This made it impossible for them to pass their
estate on to their relatives. After Theodosius' decree, the state
confiscated their properties and possessions.
Testamentary Disqualification for Christian Apostates:
Imperial Decree 16.7.4 391CE:
"Those who betray the sacred faith and profane holy baptism are shut off
from association of all and from giving testimony. ... They may not
exercise the right of making a will, nor enter upon any inheritance;
they may not be made anyone's heir."
In June 391, Theodosius issued a decree that legitimized the destruction
of Pagan Temples and shrine. Evangelism already included the
destruction of Pagan temples but now it was legal. Not that it had
stopped zealous monks claiming a higher law in support of their arson
and demolition. Ambrose was certainly pleased with Theodosius'
legalization of the destruction of pagan buildings and the outlawing of
their beliefs. Alexandria's bishop Teophilus began a systematic
campaign of destruction of the pagan temples.
As noted above, as early as "Wills of Apostate Christians to be Set
Aside":
"The right of making a will shall be taken from Christians who become
pagans; and if such persons make wills, they shall be set aside without
regard to circumstances." (Cod. Theod. xvi, 7, 1; 381: cf. Cod. Justin.
i, 7, 2; 382.)
4CE, Cygenius, Praetorian Prefect of the east used soldiers and mobs of
wild zealots for the destruction of Pagan temples.
Richard Fletcher notes in "The Barbarian Conversion",
"Miracles, wonders, exorcisms, temple
torching and shrine smashing were in
themselves acts of evangelization.'
Archeological evidence support all this:
"At the temple of Mercury of Avalon in
Burgandy, pagan statues were smashed
and piled up in a heap of rubble: the coin
series at the site ends in the reign of
Valentinian (364-375)"
Christians loved Theodosius' acts of intolerance and the establishment
of a state religion. Zealous mobs of 'true believers' were incited by
this and joined in to rob and destroy temples and their libraries. Many
beautiful buildings of Grecian architecture were lost along with
writings and of course, liberty.
In Alexandria Teophilis wanted to set an example. With the Prefect
Evagrius and soldiers from the garrison Teophilis started to demolish
the Temple of Serapis. Mobs of zealous Christians joined in the
destruction. Temples were soon destroyed in Petra, Areopolis, Canopus,
Heliopolis, Gaza and many other cities.
In Gaul, one of the most fanatical and most aggressive was Martin,
Bishop of Tours. Martin was confrontational and violent, disrupting
Pagan religious cermonies and destroying their temples, shrines and
altars. Some believe that Martin, like Bishop Teophilis in Alexandria,
used the local garrisons of soldiers to do his dirty work. And after
destroying a temple, Martin would keep the land and build a church on
the pagan ruins.
In November of 392 Theodosius issued another totalitarian decree. In
"Theodosius: The Empire at Bay", historians Williams and Friell write, "
the decree was characterized by an absolute intransigence towards the
local traditions that can be compared to that one of a dictatorial
atheistic regimen which criminalized Easter eggs, the palm, Christmas
cards, Halloween pumpkins and even some universal habits, as a toast ".
This decree instituted the death penalty for carrying out Pagan
practices and rituals and the confiscation of the property that was used
for such practices.
Judaism began to draw the attention of Christian leaders, zealots and
'true believers'. Heretics were demented and insane, Pagans were
persecuted and now Judaism was seen as another work of the devil. But
pagans didnt reject Jesus as the Jews had and 'true believers' saw Jews
as carnal, lustful Christ killers who didnt equate sexuality with filth.
By the 4th century, torchlight meetings were full of slogans regarding
Jews and Jew lovers. Anti-Semitism became a Christian duty to 'true
believers'. Not only would Pagan temples burn, so would Jewish
Synagogues.
But there was a problem. It was the rule of law in Rome. Under Roman
law any Jew that was a citizen was protected. Therefore it was unlawful
to burn down Jewish Synagogues so Theodosius required the Church to pay
for the damage done by Christians. Bishop Ambrose would have none of
this. Ambrose told Theodosius that he was threatening the Church's
prestige by protecting Synagogues and Jews in such a way and convinced
Theodosius to let the destruction of Jewish Synagogues stand. This led
to more and more Synagogues being burned all across the empire. Jews in
Judea saw their villages set ablaze by 'true believers'. Jews all
across the empire saw their priviledges of citizenship taken away. They
were forbidden to hold public office and military leadership positions.
They were not to proselytize Christians or intermarry with them.
Theodosius acted on many of Ambroses views on Pagans and banned the
Olympic Games because they were, after all, pagan. Theodosius' religious
jihad prompted Pagans in the east to defend their freedom to worship but
Theodosius would have none of that and became even more dangerous.
At a point, Pagans had a friend in the nominally Christian Eugenius in
the west. Talk of restoring the Statue of Victory arose again and with
support from Eugenius. But again, Ambrose and Theodosius would have
none of any pagan tradition and moved against them. After showering
Eugenius' representatives with gifts and telling them that his position
in Rome was secure, Theodosius made war plans. Theodosius had already
made Pagan worship punishable by death, so when moved against Eugenius,
killing him, he wiped out all remnants of religious liberty that he
could find in the western part of the empire.
Temple and Synagogue burning continued under Theodosius as bishops and
monks incited mobs of angry and intolerant Christians to attack the
Pagans and Jews.
==========>>>>>
After Theodosius I died, his son Arcadius became emperor and a new
player, the vehemently antisemitic John Chrysostom, came onto the scene.
Chrysotom lectured crowds of Christians, incitiing hatred of the Jews,
saying where Jews gathered "there the cross was ridiculed" and "the
grace of the spirit rejected".
In Antioch, Chrysostom delivered his homilies against the Jews. See
Medieval Sourcebook:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/chrysostom-jews6.html
"The Jews are the most worthless of all men... They are perfidious
murderers of Christ. They worship the devil, their religion is a
sickness..."
In describing the Jews and especially the religion of Judaism,
Chrysostom uses loaded words such as "ignoramuses", "impious",
"wretches", "dogs", "Jewish wolves", "bull-headed", "brutes", "wild
beasts", They have driven Christ away. Their Synagogues are "dens of
brigands", the "abode of Satan". They have crucified Christ and their
souls are the "abode of the devil" and "the Jewish Disease" must be
guarded against". Jews are thieves, impure, debauchees, rapacious,
misers, crafty, oppressors of the poor; Israel is dispersed because
they murdered Christ; Jews call the cross an abomination and whose
religion is null and useless to those who know the true faith.
THE LAW OF THEODOSIUS II: Decreed January 31, 439: Novella III:
Concerning Jews, Samaritans, Heretics, And Pagans:
"Wherefore, although according to an old saying [of the Greek
Hippocrates, the "father" of medicine] "no cure is to be applied in
desperate sicknesses," nevertheless, in order that these dangerous sects
which are unmindful of our times may not spread into life the more
freely, in indiscriminate disorder as it were, we ordain by this law to
be valid for all time:
"No Jew - or no Samaritan who subscribes to neither [the Jewish nor the
Christian] religion - shall obtain offices and dignities; to none shall
the administration of city service be permitted; nor shall any one
exercise the office of a defender [that is, overseer] of the city.
Indeed, we believe it sinful that the enemies of the heavenly majesty
and of the Roman laws should become the executors of our laws - the
administration of which they have slyly obtained and that they,
fortified by the authority of the acquired rank, should have the power
to judge or decide as they wish against Christians, yes, frequently even
over bishops of our holy religion themselves, and thus, as it were,
insult our faith."
"Moreover, for the same reason, we forbid that any synagogue shall rise
as a new building. [Fewer synagogues meant less chance of Christians
becoming Jews.] However, the propping up of old synagogues which are now
threatened with imminent ruin is permitted. To these things we add that
he who misleads a slave or a freeman against his will or by punishable
advice, from the service of the Christian religion to that of an
abominable sect and ritual, is to be punished by loss of property and
life. [That is, the Jew who converts any one to Judaism loses life and
property.]"
"On the one hand, whoever has built a synagogue must realize that he has
worked to the advantage of the Catholic church [which will confiscate
the building]; on the other hand, whoever has already secured the badge
of office shall not hold the dignities he has acquired. On the contrary,
he who worms himself into office must remain, as before, in the lowest
rank even though he will have already earned an honorary office. And as
for him who begins the building of a synagogue and is not moved by the
desire of repairing it, he shall be punished by a fine of fifty pounds
gold for his daring. Moreover, if he will have prevailed with his evil
teachings over the faith of another, he shall see his wealth confiscated
and himself soon subjected to a death sentence."
"And since it behooves the imperial majesty to consider everything with
such foresight that the general welfare does not suffer in the least, we
ordain that the tax-paying officeholders of all towns as well as the
provincial civil servants - who are obligated to employ their wealth and
to make public gifts as part of their burdensome and diverse official
and military duties hall remain in their own classes, no matter what
sect they belong to. Let it not appear as if we have accorded the
benefit of exemption to those men, detestable in their insolent
maneuvering, whom we wish to condemn by the authority of this law. [Jews
have to accept financially ruinous public offices without hope of
exemption.]"
"This further limitation is to be observed, namely, that these public
servants from these above mentioned sects shall never, as far as private
affairs are concerned, carry out judicial sentences, nor be wardens of
the jail. This is done in order that Christians, as it sometimes
happens, may not be hidden away and suffer a double imprisonment through
the hatred of the guards- [imprisonment is bad enough without having a
Jewish jailer.] And furthermore it may be doubted that they have been
justly imprisoned."
Under Theodosius II, Cyril became the Bishop of Alexandria in 412, but
not before his supporters and supporters of his rival Timotheus had a
riot. Cyril drove out the Jews and plundered all the Novatian Christian
churches in Alexandria. Novatians had also been persecuted by the
vengeful Decius, the deeply religious, traditionalist, conservative
pagan, Diocletian and the Arian Christian emperor, Flavius Valens. In a
fine example of the persecuted becoming the persecutors, which has been
a continuing theme of Christian history, Valens persecuted Nicene
Trinitarian Christians who had persecuted them. And of course, Valens
persecuted Pagans as almost all Christian leaders had done since
Constantine's persecutions of Pagans. And lets not forget that Arian
Christians were outlawed by the Council of Nicea. 3000 Arian Christian
heads rolled at Constantine's order.
What Cyril was doing to the Novatian Christians and their churches had
160 years of persecution behind it, going back to Decius' edict in 250
and Pope Cornelius' election in 251. Corenelius, in 250, had written
Fabius of Antioch and told him that Novatia was possessed by Satan. The
persecution of heresies by those in power who decide which beliefs are
heresies, just went round and round and round. The persecuted becoming
the persecutors, taking their turns depending on who was deciding what
was heresy at a given time.
Cyril's mobs of hermits, monks amnd zealous Christians plundered
synagogues, burned down libraries, and massacred the Jews and pagans
they met on the way. All this deeply angered the Prefect, Orestes. Mob
violence and riots seemed to be the theme of Alexandria's religious
community at this time. In one riot in which 500 zealous monks invaded
the city to help Cyril, the monk Ammonius hit the Orestes in the head
with a stone. The Prefect executed him and then Cyril celebrates his
martydom.
It wasnt long before Cyril's mob attacked the elderly and celebrated
woman, Hypatia. Hypatia was a Neo-Palatonst, a teacher of philosophy
and a brillant mathematician. To Cyril, Hypatia was a pagan and was
influenced by the devil. Her rare accomplishments for the time and her
prestige made her a perfect target of hatred. In 415 a Christian mob,
reportedly lead by Cyril, murdered Hypatia by dragging her from her
chariot, stripped her flesh from her bones while alive with sharpened
abalone shells, and then threw her body into a fire.
==============
SOURCES and further reading:
http://community-2.webtv.net/headbands/BIBLIORELIGIOUSLIBER/
This is why I truly wish for separation from people like me and people like
you. So that you can demonstrate to all of us where your specie is directed
and how is directed. More than that I'd like to know for how long you will
generate interest for the society that you plan to build and/or maintain.
For you seam to know it all but you don't even understand that nobody 800
years ago would give a ***** (forgive me the word) about your crazy vision
and ambitions. They were just fine the way they were. I'm quite sure that
those that were persecuted were persecuted for reason good enough according
to time. Today we think different, eat different, love different, hate
different, believe different and live according to different grace. There is
absolutely no need for guys like you to judge the actions of this or that
time in history for you are judging according to nothing and know not where
you are heading. To follow you I feel is like to follow a blind person.
Except, I am really at ease with a true blind and I trust him/her more than
I trust you. In fact the real blind is just like any of us and a lot more
careful in taking a good step. Some have grace to sell. Just be quite, would
ya?
Think about your own time and try to understand why you were born. Surely
not to be an example. Quite...shhh.
You are making noise for nothing. Ring the bell if you want more. In the
meantime if you find out how to love people without vision or morality of
any kind, let me know. I'd like to learn how. Be submitted to authority
and...perhaps...perhaps Christians will be able to love you too and pray for
you too so that some of your actions be covered and forgiven (Sorry about
spelling errors).
.
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| User: "Kix Adams" |
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| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
05 Sep 2003 12:43:23 AM |
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(The Laughing Philosopher) wrote in message news:<27449-3F550096-685@storefull-2354.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
I have always thought that any ideology that got its footing by tyranny
was illegitimate. Dictators arent legitimate: Religious or secular or
atheist.
Historical research and writing by The Laughing Philosopher
(And if any of you Protestants feel good, wait till you see my pages on
Luther and Calvin!!)
Gee.. for someone who claims to have your freedom of speech and
liberties so trampled on by Christians you don't seem to have any
trouble at all writing antichrist hate. I have serious doubts that you
have ever really "thought" about anything regarding the TRUTH about
Christianity or Chrisitans. However, I do think it would be
interesting to see if you have the same level of religious hatred
toward Islam. What do you say, surely you can drum up some of this
hate for them.
HINT: Your writing style is just too easy to pick out.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
06 Sep 2003 09:22:12 AM |
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On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 22:43:23 -0700, Kix Adams wrote:
headbands@webtv.net (The Laughing Philosopher) wrote in message
news:<27449-3F550096-685@storefull-2354.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
I have always thought that any ideology that got its footing by tyranny
was illegitimate. Dictators arent legitimate: Religious or secular or
atheist.
Historical research and writing by The Laughing Philosopher
(And if any of you Protestants feel good, wait till you see my pages on
Luther and Calvin!!)
Gee.. for someone who claims to have your freedom of speech and liberties
so trampled on by Christians you don't seem to have any trouble at all
writing antichrist hate. I have serious doubts that you have ever really
"thought" about anything regarding the TRUTH about Christianity or
Chrisitans.
Except that the vast majority of the atheists in alt.atheism *WERE*
christians (myself included... in fact, I spent so much time studying the
bible, I find I *still--after all these years--know more about it than the
average christian who wanders into alt.atheism)
However, I do think it would be interesting to see if you have
the same level of religious hatred toward Islam.
Hatred? Interesting that when you dredge up what christians have done
through history it's "hatred" instead of "history."
Hm.
What do you say, surely
you can drum up some of this hate for them.
Funny how a bunch of people that try to claim "those weren't us true
christians!" take this all so *personally...
(Can you say "guilty conscience?" I knew you could!)
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "Terry Austin" |
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| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
02 Sep 2003 05:07:25 PM |
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(The Laughing Philosopher) wrote in news:27449-
3F550096-685@storefull-2354.public.lawson.webtv.net:
Historical research and writing by The Laughing Philosopher
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ITYM "The Giggling Retard".
HTH. HAND.
--
Larry Flynt for Governor
Bringing dignity back to the Governor's Mansion
Terry Austin
taustin@hyperbooks.com
.
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| User: "RetroProphet" |
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| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
02 Sep 2003 09:15:13 PM |
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The justification for killing people by burning them to death for not
being Christian is found in the ultimate example of religious
intolerance: The Christian "Lake of Fire", where it is -what you think-
that gets you there. Not for thinking or acting in terms of malice,
harm or deceit, but just for having the wrong worldview and cosmological
perspective. What we in a free society consider one the essential
requirements that define the ethic of liberty, the Bible calls a "wicked
thing'.
I never could understand how anyone who took the Bible literally,
and there are many who do claim to, can stand living in the US.
It's particularly amusing seeing folks trying to present the
10 Commandments as somehow being a cornerstone of American law,
when the First Amendment encourages citizens to break the
First Commandment any way they like.
The key flaw I see in fundamentalists of all stripes is that
they refuse to admit that human civilizations progress.
They don't get that there are hundreds of completely dead
religions that had fundamentalists, too. When they got too
out of touch with the current reality, they disappeared.
Same thing happened to a lot of gods, too. Funny thing.
They never come back. You'd think that losing that last
believer would really get a god to show its stuff...
Thanks for an interesting and well written history lesson.
.
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| User: "€R. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
03 Sep 2003 08:21:03 AM |
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In article <bj3irh01mh8@drn.newsguy.com>, RetroProphet
<RetroProphet_member@newsguy.com> wrote:
The justification for killing people by burning them to death for not
being Christian is found in the ultimate example of religious
intolerance: The Christian "Lake of Fire", where it is -what you think-
that gets you there. Not for thinking or acting in terms of malice,
harm or deceit, but just for having the wrong worldview and cosmological
perspective. What we in a free society consider one the essential
requirements that define the ethic of liberty, the Bible calls a "wicked
thing'.
I never could understand how anyone who took the Bible literally,
and there are many who do claim to, can stand living in the US.
*** The dude that currently lives in the White House is said to take the
Bible literally.
...
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
03 Sep 2003 09:24:09 AM |
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On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 06:21:03 -0700, €R. Measures wrote:
In article <bj3irh01mh8@drn.newsguy.com>, RetroProphet
<RetroProphet_member@newsguy.com> wrote:
The justification for killing people by burning them to death for not
being Christian is found in the ultimate example of religious
intolerance: The Christian "Lake of Fire", where it is -what you think-
that gets you there. Not for thinking or acting in terms of malice,
harm or deceit, but just for having the wrong worldview and
cosmological perspective. What we in a free society consider one the
essential requirements that define the ethic of liberty, the Bible
calls a "wicked thing'.
I never could understand how anyone who took the Bible literally, and
there are many who do claim to, can stand living in the US.
*** The dude that currently lives in the White House is said to take the
Bible literally.
...
That assumes he can read...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
.
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| User: "€R. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
03 Sep 2003 04:41:39 PM |
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In article <pan.2003.09.03.14.24.08.797145@eac.org>, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 06:21:03 -0700, €R. Measures wrote:
In article <bj3irh01mh8@drn.newsguy.com>, RetroProphet
<RetroProphet_member@newsguy.com> wrote:
The justification for killing people by burning them to death for not
being Christian is found in the ultimate example of religious
intolerance: The Christian "Lake of Fire", where it is -what you think-
that gets you there. Not for thinking or acting in terms of malice,
harm or deceit, but just for having the wrong worldview and
cosmological perspective. What we in a free society consider one the
essential requirements that define the ethic of liberty, the Bible
calls a "wicked thing'.
I never could understand how anyone who took the Bible literally, and
there are many who do claim to, can stand living in the US.
*** The dude that currently lives in the White House is said to take the
Bible literally.
...
That assumes he can read...
*** he reportedly can.
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
.
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| User: "emsguy" |
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| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
03 Sep 2003 03:09:23 PM |
|
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RetroProphet <RetroProphet_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<bj3irh01mh8@drn.newsguy.com>...
The justification for killing people by burning them to death for not
being Christian is found in the ultimate example of religious
intolerance: The Christian "Lake of Fire", where it is -what you think-
that gets you there. Not for thinking or acting in terms of malice,
harm or deceit, but just for having the wrong worldview and cosmological
perspective. What we in a free society consider one the essential
requirements that define the ethic of liberty, the Bible calls a "wicked
thing'.
I never could understand how anyone who took the Bible literally,
and there are many who do claim to, can stand living in the US.
You're in the minority. Most Americans still believe that the Bible
is the world of God, and not a fairy tale like you claim.
I take the Bible literally. Jesus said that in the last days there
would be wars and rumors of wars, famines, disease, great natural
disasters, and lots of false Christs that will deceive many. Maybe
you should get your head out of the sand and read watch the local
news. These things are all happening now. Oh yea, Israel became a
nation again after being completely divided as the Bible accurately
predicted. Oh yea, the Jews are the most hated race as the Bible
predicted. Oh yeah, governments and nations are more united than ever
as the Bible predicted. Oh yeah, there is a push for a one world
government just as the Bible predicted. Oh yeah, man is deprived and
sinful just as the Bible teaches. Oh yea, the field of archaelogy has
proven instead of disproven the Bible. Oh yeah, Zechariah 12:10 and
Psalm 22:16 mention the crucifixion of Christian centuries before the
punishment was invented by Romans. Oh yeah, the city of Tyre was
destroyed exactly like the Bible predicted. The list goes on.....
It's particularly amusing seeing folks trying to present the
10 Commandments as somehow being a cornerstone of American law,
when the First Amendment encourages citizens to break the
First Commandment any way they like.
The first amendment was designed to prevent religious persecution as
done by the church of England. All law is based on some grounds of
morality.
The key flaw I see in fundamentalists of all stripes is that
they refuse to admit that human civilizations progress.
They don't get that there are hundreds of completely dead
religions that had fundamentalists, too. When they got too
out of touch with the current reality, they disappeared.
Same thing happened to a lot of gods, too. Funny thing.
They never come back. You'd think that losing that last
believer would really get a god to show its stuff...
The key flaw with skeptics is that they are unwilling to admit a
biased hatred for the principles of Christianity, and they will
promote anything that loosely contradicts Christianity even if it
requires distorting the truth.
Thanks for an interesting and well written history lesson.
.
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| User: "Didymos" |
|
| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
03 Sep 2003 07:57:27 PM |
|
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"emsguy" <emsguy@hogsfan.com> wrote in message
news:be3b68f3.0309031209.74c7c801@posting.google.com...
RetroProphet <RetroProphet_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:<bj3irh01mh8@drn.newsguy.com>...
The justification for killing people by burning them to death for not
being Christian is found in the ultimate example of religious
intolerance: The Christian "Lake of Fire", where it is -what you think-
that gets you there. Not for thinking or acting in terms of malice,
harm or deceit, but just for having the wrong worldview and
cosmological
perspective. What we in a free society consider one the essential
requirements that define the ethic of liberty, the Bible calls a
"wicked
thing'.
I never could understand how anyone who took the Bible literally,
and there are many who do claim to, can stand living in the US.
You're in the minority. Most Americans still believe that the Bible
is the world of God, and not a fairy tale like you claim.
It is, is it? Who appointed you my spokesperson? I am American, and you,
sir, assuredly have no right to speak for me. Do you have some kind of
evidence for your assertion? Or are you just making it up and you go along?
I take the Bible literally.
Which Bible?
Jesus said that in the last days there
would be wars and rumors of wars, famines, disease, great natural
disasters, and lots of false Christs that will deceive many. Maybe
you should get your head out of the sand and read watch the local
news. These things are all happening now. Oh yea, Israel became a
nation again after being completely divided as the Bible accurately
predicted. Oh yea, the Jews are the most hated race as the Bible
predicted. Oh yeah, governments and nations are more united than ever
as the Bible predicted. Oh yeah, there is a push for a one world
government just as the Bible predicted. Oh yeah, man is deprived and
sinful just as the Bible teaches. Oh yea, the field of archaelogy has
proven instead of disproven the Bible. Oh yeah, Zechariah 12:10 and
Psalm 22:16 mention the crucifixion of Christian centuries before the
punishment was invented by Romans. Oh yeah, the city of Tyre was
destroyed exactly like the Bible predicted. The list goes on.....
Can you kindly name the year since Jesus died that there were not, "wars and
rumors of wars, famines, disease, great natural disasters, and lots of false
Christs that will deceive many"? Bet you a glass of your favorite beverage
against a glass of mine you can't name a year when that was not happening.
It's particularly amusing seeing folks trying to present the
10 Commandments as somehow being a cornerstone of American law,
when the First Amendment encourages citizens to break the
First Commandment any way they like.
The first amendment was designed to prevent religious persecution as
done by the church of England.
And what church was tax supported in Massachusetts in 1820? Hint: It was
not the Church of England.
All law is based on some grounds of morality.
Do you really believe that? How about the Nurembug laws? How about Article
58 of the Soviet Criminal Code? How about the Witch codes of Western
Europe? How about the Dred Scott and Plessy vs. Ferguson decisions and the
laws they upheld? How about the Stamp Act? And the Quartering Act? Those
were all assuredly laws, thus qualifying as a subset of your set of "all
law." Were those laws thus "based on some grounds of morality"? Which
"morality" might that be?
The key flaw I see in fundamentalists of all stripes is that
they refuse to admit that human civilizations progress.
They don't get that there are hundreds of completely dead
religions that had fundamentalists, too. When they got too
out of touch with the current reality, they disappeared.
Same thing happened to a lot of gods, too. Funny thing.
They never come back. You'd think that losing that last
believer would really get a god to show its stuff...
The key flaw with skeptics is that they are unwilling to admit a
biased hatred for the principles of Christianity, and they will
promote anything that loosely contradicts Christianity even if it
requires distorting the truth.
And fundamentalists don't lie? Or distort the truth? Would you like a
couple dozen quick examples of blatant falsehood by fundamentalists?
Thanks for an interesting and well written history lesson.
Not really a "well written history lesson," but rather a misguided and
biased attempt to reinterpret the past to fit into a modern world view. A
"free society"? In the 4th century? "[T]he ethic of liberty"? In
classical antiquity? Those notion were 1600 years in the future. The notion
of "religious liberty" is modern, in fact the notion of liberty in any
aspect of life is modern, and Constantine and his worldview were ancient.
Quite obviously, Constantine could not possibly have begun "his persecutions
against religious liberty" for the very good reason that no such liberty
existed anywhere in the ancient world. And obviously, the :"trouble" was in
place long before Constantine. If by "trouble" the Laughing Philosopher
means bloody persecution and war fought for ideological reasons, Constantine
had a long and bloody tradition to follow. Christian Europe was savage.
But that is not a characteristic set of behaviors limited to Europe or
Christians. Perhaps Laughing Philosopher might read some history of the
rest of the world, and then compare Europe savagery with other cultures.
But I try to give credit where credit is due. Laughing Philospher did
actually cite some sources, and that is very much to his credit. But who
still cites Gibbon? Geez . . . . surely he can do better than Gibbon for an
honest assessment of the collapse of the Western Empire.
.
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| User: "emsguy" |
|
| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
04 Sep 2003 01:02:51 PM |
|
|
"Didymos" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<X5w5b.7466$tw6.6729@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"emsguy" <emsguy@hogsfan.com> wrote in message
news:be3b68f3.0309031209.74c7c801@posting.google.com...
RetroProphet <RetroProphet_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:<bj3irh01mh8@drn.newsguy.com>...
The justification for killing people by burning them to death for not
being Christian is found in the ultimate example of religious
intolerance: The Christian "Lake of Fire", where it is -what you think-
that gets you there. Not for thinking or acting in terms of malice,
harm or deceit, but just for having the wrong worldview and
cosmological
perspective. What we in a free society consider one the essential
requirements that define the ethic of liberty, the Bible calls a
"wicked
thing'.
I never could understand how anyone who took the Bible literally,
and there are many who do claim to, can stand living in the US.
You're in the minority. Most Americans still believe that the Bible
is the world of God, and not a fairy tale like you claim.
It is, is it? Who appointed you my spokesperson? I am American, and you,
sir, assuredly have no right to speak for me. Do you have some kind of
evidence for your assertion? Or are you just making it up and you go along?
I did not say every American. I said "most" meaning that you atheists
are a small vocal minority. If you think we are nuts for believing
the Bible then you believe some of the greatest minds in society are
nuts.
I take the Bible literally.
Which Bible?
The infallible word of God containing books from Genesis to
Revelation. Despite numerous efforts to destroy the Bible, it has
survived from the King James Version onward.
Jesus said that in the last days there
would be wars and rumors of wars, famines, disease, great natural
disasters, and lots of false Christs that will deceive many. Maybe
you should get your head out of the sand and read watch the local
news. These things are all happening now. Oh yea, Israel became a
nation again after being completely divided as the Bible accurately
predicted. Oh yea, the Jews are the most hated race as the Bible
predicted. Oh yeah, governments and nations are more united than ever
as the Bible predicted. Oh yeah, there is a push for a one world
government just as the Bible predicted. Oh yeah, man is deprived and
sinful just as the Bible teaches. Oh yea, the field of archaelogy has
proven instead of disproven the Bible. Oh yeah, Zechariah 12:10 and
Psalm 22:16 mention the crucifixion of Christian centuries before the
punishment was invented by Romans. Oh yeah, the city of Tyre was
destroyed exactly like the Bible predicted. The list goes on.....
Can you kindly name the year since Jesus died that there were not, "wars and
rumors of wars, famines, disease, great natural disasters, and lots of false
Christs that will deceive many"? Bet you a glass of your favorite beverage
against a glass of mine you can't name a year when that was not happening.
I don't recall any point in history where you see so many different
brands of Christianity, and wackos claiming that they are Jesus
Christ. Even so, this is the only point in history where ALL the
pieces of prediction are coming together. Also, wars, disease, and
natural disaster have a more catastrophe impact than ever before.
Look how quickly Sars traveled due to modern transportation. Would
this have happened with every year in history? Take these predictions
coppled with every other end day prediction, and you will fin it quite
difficult to write Bible prophecy off as concidence.
It's particularly amusing seeing folks trying to present the
10 Commandments as somehow being a cornerstone of American law,
when the First Amendment encourages citizens to break the
First Commandment any way they like.
The first amendment was designed to prevent religious persecution as
done by the church of England.
And what church was tax supported in Massachusetts in 1820? Hint: It was
not the Church of England.
Since when does tax qualify as persecution? The Church of England
would not even allow people to read Bibles.
All law is based on some grounds of morality.
Do you really believe that? How about the Nurembug laws? How about Article
58 of the Soviet Criminal Code? How about the Witch codes of Western
Europe? How about the Dred Scott and Plessy vs. Ferguson decisions and the
laws they upheld? How about the Stamp Act? And the Quartering Act? Those
were all assuredly laws, thus qualifying as a subset of your set of "all
law." Were those laws thus "based on some grounds of morality"? Which
"morality" might that be?
I'm not familiar with all these laws, but I'm confident that if you
trace the roots, you will find a ground of morality. For example,
Nurembug laws would be based on a morality that teaches blonde blue
eyed people have more value than other races.
The key flaw I see in fundamentalists of all stripes is that
they refuse to admit that human civilizations progress.
They don't get that there are hundreds of completely dead
religions that had fundamentalists, too. When they got too
out of touch with the current reality, they disappeared.
Same thing happened to a lot of gods, too. Funny thing.
They never come back. You'd think that losing that last
believer would really get a god to show its stuff...
The key flaw with skeptics is that they are unwilling to admit a
biased hatred for the principles of Christianity, and they will
promote anything that loosely contradicts Christianity even if it
requires distorting the truth.
And fundamentalists don't lie? Or distort the truth? Would you like a
couple dozen quick examples of blatant falsehood by fundamentalists?
Thanks for an interesting and well written history lesson.
Not really a "well written history lesson," but rather a misguided and
biased attempt to reinterpret the past to fit into a modern world view. A
"free society"? In the 4th century? "[T]he ethic of liberty"? In
classical antiquity? Those notion were 1600 years in the future. The notion
of "religious liberty" is modern, in fact the notion of liberty in any
aspect of life is modern, and Constantine and his worldview were ancient.
Quite obviously, Constantine could not possibly have begun "his persecutions
against religious liberty" for the very good reason that no such liberty
existed anywhere in the ancient world. And obviously, the :"trouble" was in
place long before Constantine. If by "trouble" the Laughing Philosopher
means bloody persecution and war fought for ideological reasons, Constantine
had a long and bloody tradition to follow. Christian Europe was savage.
But that is not a characteristic set of behaviors limited to Europe or
Christians. Perhaps Laughing Philosopher might read some history of the
rest of the world, and then compare Europe savagery with other cultures.
But I try to give credit where credit is due. Laughing Philospher did
actually cite some sources, and that is very much to his credit. But who
still cites Gibbon? Geez . . . . surely he can do better than Gibbon for an
honest assessment of the collapse of the Western Empire.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Therion Ware" |
|
| Title: Re: The Horrors of Early Christian history |
04 Sep 2003 01:08:37 PM |
|
|
On 4 Sep 2003 11:02:51 -0700 in alt.atheism, emsguy
(emsguy@hogsfan.com (emsguy)) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
"Didymos" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<X5w5b.7466$tw6.6729@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"emsguy" <emsguy@hogsfan.com> wrote in message
news:be3b68f3.0309031209.74c7c801@posting.google.com...
RetroProphet <RetroProphet_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:<bj3irh01mh8@drn.newsguy.com>...
The justification for killing people by burning them to death for not
being Christian is found in the ultimate example of religious
intolerance: The Christian "Lake of Fire", where it is -what you think-
that gets you there. Not for thinking or acting in terms of malice,
harm or deceit, but just for having the wrong worldview and
cosmological
perspective. What we in a free society consider one the essential
requirements that define the ethic of liberty, the Bible calls a
"wicked
thing'.
I never could understand how anyone who took the Bible literally,
and there are many who do claim to, can stand living in the US.
You're in the minority. Most Americans still believe that the Bible
is the world of God, and not a fairy tale like you claim.
It is, is it? Who appointed you my spokesperson? I am American, and you,
sir, assuredly have no right to speak for me. Do you have some kind of
evidence for your assertion? Or are you just making it up and you go along?
I did not say every American. I said "most" meaning that you atheists
are a small vocal minority. If you think we are nuts for believing
the Bible then you believe some of the greatest minds in society are
nuts.
I take the Bible literally.
Which Bible?
The infallible word of God containing books from Genesis to
Revelation. Despite numerous efforts to destroy the Bible, it has
survived from the King James Version onward.
In it's original english, presumably.
Jesus, to coin a phase, you people are *so* fucking stupid and
self-obsessed it is, almost, untrue. But alas...
[snip]
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
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