| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Millennial Reign" |
| Date: |
22 Jan 2006 10:29:02 PM |
| Object: |
The kingdoms of this world become His |
Would anyone care to describe the significance of the following verses.
Do these events occur before those in Revelation 12?
Has this happened, and if so, at what time and in what form?
Revelation 17:15-19 KJV
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and
of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell
upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and
art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast
reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the
dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto
thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name,
small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his
temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and
thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
--
φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν
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| User: "Flowerchild8245" |
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| Title: Re: The kingdoms of this world become His |
22 Jan 2006 11:40:54 PM |
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Millennial Reign wrote:
Would anyone care to describe the significance of the following verses.
Do these events occur before those in Revelation 12?
Has this happened, and if so, at what time and in what form?
Revelation 17:15-19 KJV
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, a=
nd
of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell
upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and
art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast
reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the
dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto
thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name,
small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his
temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, a=
nd
thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
--
=F6=E1=F3=EA=EF=ED=F4=E5=F2 =E5=E9=ED=E1=E9 =F3=EF=F6=EF=E9 =E5=EC=F9=F1=
=E1=ED=E8=E7=F3=E1=ED
*Jerusalem, 70AD:
Why do many expect to see signs of the coming of the Lord without
expecting the Temple in Jerusalem to be destroyed? They say "come
Lord", but "blessed is Jerusalem" without considering Jerusalem in
Jesus' time. After spending quite some time studying the scriptures, I
am convinced the wrath was to be upon His people in His generation, the
same temple, the same pharisees, the same who cried out "Crucify Him,
let his blood be upon us and our children", the same who pierced Him.
They say "come Lord Jesus", then say "Jerusalem is blessed"...as if
this is Jerusalem in our generation being discussed... But it is not,
It was Jerusalem in Jesus' generation, an exceedingly "evil", "wicked",
and "sinfull" generation.
This said the Lord in His day :
Luk 21:22 for these are days of vengeance, TO FULFILL ALL THAT IS
WRITTEN.
Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know
that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea
flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart,
and let not those who are out in the country enter it, for these are
days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.
Luk 3:7 He said therefore to the crowds that came out to be baptized
by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned YOU to flee from THE WRATH TO
COME?
Mat 23:34-36 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes,
some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your
synagogues and persecute from town to town, so that on you may come all
the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to
the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between
the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will
come upon this generation...
Ps...When Jesus said "this generation", He was referring to His
generation.
[] Once upon a time in Jerusalem, in 70AD, just 40 years after Jesus
spoke those words, something happenned...Jerusalem was seiged and
destroyed. They peeled apart every stone in the Temple and took her
gold, it was between the stones and covered the doors. Jerusalem was
plundered of her gold and pearls, her vessels of pure gold, and her
pots of flowers were plundered. This was the place the ark of the
covenant was given to the people and made with hands, and where it
rested was made desolate, the Temple, the men, the women, the children.
The groom took them like a thief in the night! He came unto them and
they didn't even recognise Him! He looked them right in the eye! Oh, He
was so angry! He threw things around once. They had their mind made up,
They refused Him. Stubborn bunch, heads as hard as a rhino, a brood of
vipers. Ever notice how the Pharisees seem to always know Jesus was
talking to them! Their God came, Messiah! He looked into their eyes,
and He cried.
Fourty years later... this happens :
"On that fatal occasion, when the Idumean force was treacherously
admitted into the city by the Zealots, a fearful earthquake took place,
and in the same night a great massacre of the inhabitants of the city
was perpetrated by these brigands. The statement of Josephus is as
follows":
'During the night a terrific storm arose; the wind blew with
tempestuous violence, and the rain fell in torrents; the lightnings
flashed without intermission, accompanied by fearful peals of thunder,
and the quaking earth resounded with mighty bellowings. The universe,
convulsed to its very base, appeared fraught with the destruction of
mankind, and it was easy to conjecture that these were portents of no
trivial calamity.'
[]
Remember, the destruction of the Temple was given, given as a clear
sign before His coming. He scathed the Pharisees and His generation,
there were a wicked bunch in those days, and it was their temple He was
in, the same walls trimmed in gold that Jesus was looking at as an
apostle asked; "Master, Do you see these things?", even some of the
same brood of pharisees and the same generation within it. The temple,
and even the people within it! His people who posessed His Pearls, who
were offered diamonds, but because they refused were given rocks, heavy
rocks. In 0032 Jesus spoke the decree saying "Behold, your house is
left unto you desolate", Jerusalem, the Temple, and His people were
measured that day.
The surrounding areas known as New Testament Palestine being Gentile
nations were left without and not measured, only the temple and the
court were found wanting.
She was like a mother! ...With many sons and daughters, how He loved
her. Her husband came home and caught her in the very act of idolatry.
She was measured in truth and in justice, in the eyes of the Messiah.
His words are true, and they cut to the bone, and they always come to
pass. This is what He said:
Luke chapter 21:
Luk 21:5-7 And while some were speaking of the temple, how it was
adorned with noble stones and offerings, he said, "As for these things
that you see, the days will come when there will not be left here one
stone upon another that will not be thrown down." And they asked him,
"Teacher, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when
these things are about to take place?"
Luk 21:20-22 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then
know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea
flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart,
and let not those who are out in the country enter it, for these are
days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.
Luk 21:27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with
power and great glory.
This said the LORD:
Micah 1:5-9 All this is against the transgression of Jacob, and
against the sins of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of
Jacob? Is it not Samaria? And what are the high places of Judah? Are
they not Jerusalem? And I will make Samaria into ruins of the field,
planting places for a vineyard. And I will pour down her stones into
the valley, and I will uncover her foundations. And all her carved
images shall be beaten to pieces, and all her gifts for harlotry shall
be burned with fire. And I will make all her idols a desolation. For
she gathered it from the reward of a harlot, and they shall return to
the reward of a harlot. Because of this I will wail and howl; I will go
stripped and naked; I will make a wailing like the jackal, yea, mourn
like the daughters of an ostrich. For her wounds are incurable; for it
has come to Judah; it has reached to the gate of my people, to
Jerusalem.
And this is but touching the surface of the water, the water is deep.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: The kingdoms of this world become His |
22 Jan 2006 11:53:40 PM |
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"Flowerchild8245" <shaqad@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1137994854.588360.274670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Millennial Reign wrote:
Would anyone care to describe the significance of the following verses.
Do these events occur before those in Revelation 12?
Has this happened, and if so, at what time and in what form?
Revelation 17:15-19 KJV
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,
and
of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell
upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and
art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast
reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the
dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto
thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name,
small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his
temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices,
and
thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
--
φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν
Contrary to De-flowered child's usual brand of nonsense, what you are
reading is somewhat past tense, but it is really future tense.
It looks like John is writing about the nativity of Jesus Christ, but, in
effect, John is capitalizing on a turn of phrase that Jesus uses in the
Olivet Discourse--the "Beginning of Sorrows," which actually means
"travails" or "birthpangs," as when Jesus said:
"A woman in labor suffers when she is in labor, but soon forgets the pain of
her suffering for joy that a manchild is born into the world."
So the "Child" being born is a new "manchild," not in the literal sense, but
in the sense of God bringing forth the remnant that will establish a whole
new Israel from the "righteous husband," i.e. the Old Testament believers
and the "compassionate wife," i.e. the New Testament believers. Notice that
John always refers to these future children of both faiths dualistically, as
in, "They keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus
Christ," they "sing the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb," they "are
not defiled with women / for they are virgins."
So, like most things in Revelation, and, indeed, all Bible prophecy, the
text looks like it is about something past, but it is actually about
something future.
Ike
www.eickleberrybook.com
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| User: "Millennial Reign" |
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| Title: Re: The kingdoms of this world become His |
23 Jan 2006 12:16:46 AM |
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On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 23:53:40 -0600, H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
Contrary to De-flowered child's usual brand of nonsense, what you are
reading is somewhat past tense, but it is really future tense.
Akin to the following?
Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his
control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him.
[Hebrews 2:8b ESV]
--
φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: The kingdoms of this world become His |
23 Jan 2006 07:38:36 AM |
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"Millennial Reign" <bring.it.on@revelation.bible> wrote in message
news:zlswe3afmpk3.jcsshx1fxiws$.dlg@40tude.net...
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 23:53:40 -0600, H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
Contrary to De-flowered child's usual brand of nonsense, what you are
reading is somewhat past tense, but it is really future tense.
Akin to the following?
Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside
his
control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him.
[Hebrews 2:8b ESV]
--
φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν
Precisely.
And also,
1Co 15:24-25
"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to
God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority
and power: For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."
Ike
--
"Many shall come saying...'The time draws near:' Go ye not after them."
******************************
"The Character Map: An Introduction to the Introductions in Revelation" is
now available in hardcover, softcover, and ebook editions.
For a synopsis, author bio, an explanation of the real "code" in Revelation,
an excerpt, and links to major sales sites, visit
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
Remove X from address to reply
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: The kingdoms of this world become His |
17 Nov 2006 12:11:03 PM |
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Well done ! While we have had our disagreements, we agree on this one !
Another thing we may, or may not agree on, many make the mistake of thinking
the New Testament / New Covenant(Law / Commandments) speaks of Christians
obeying the "commands / commandments of God / Christ" it is talking about
what Jesus fulfilled, instead of the commands / "suggestions" of the New
Covenant.
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:XNudnV_-V-T88kneRVn-tA@comcast.com...
"Flowerchild8245" <shaqad@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1137994854.588360.274670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Millennial Reign wrote:
Would anyone care to describe the significance of the following verses.
Do these events occur before those in Revelation 12?
Has this happened, and if so, at what time and in what form?
Revelation 17:15-19 KJV
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,
and
of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell
upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast,
and
art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast
reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the
dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward
unto
thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy
name,
small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his
temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices,
and
thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
--
φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν
Contrary to De-flowered child's usual brand of nonsense, what you are
reading is somewhat past tense, but it is really future tense.
It looks like John is writing about the nativity of Jesus Christ, but, in
effect, John is capitalizing on a turn of phrase that Jesus uses in the
Olivet Discourse--the "Beginning of Sorrows," which actually means
"travails" or "birthpangs," as when Jesus said:
"A woman in labor suffers when she is in labor, but soon forgets the pain
of her suffering for joy that a manchild is born into the world."
So the "Child" being born is a new "manchild," not in the literal sense,
but in the sense of God bringing forth the remnant that will establish a
whole new Israel from the "righteous husband," i.e. the Old Testament
believers and the "compassionate wife," i.e. the New Testament believers.
Notice that John always refers to these future children of both faiths
dualistically, as in, "They keep the commandments of God and have the
testimony of Jesus Christ," they "sing the song of Moses and the song of
the Lamb," they "are not defiled with women / for they are virgins."
So, like most things in Revelation, and, indeed, all Bible prophecy, the
text looks like it is about something past, but it is actually about
something future.
Ike
www.eickleberrybook.com
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| User: "Millennial Reign" |
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| Title: Re: The kingdoms of this world become His |
23 Jan 2006 12:03:39 AM |
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On 22 Jan 2006 21:40:54 -0800, Flowerchild8245 wrote:
Millennial Reign wrote:
Would anyone care to describe the significance of the following verses.
Do these events occur before those in Revelation 12?
Has this happened, and if so, at what time and in what form?
Revelation 17:15-19 KJV
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and
of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell
upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and
art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast
reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the
dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto
thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name,
small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his
temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and
thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
*Jerusalem, 70AD:
So can we take it that you believe the kingdoms of the world only became
the kingdoms of the Lord and of Christ (and that his everlasting reign
began) in AD70, or are you referring to some link in other verses in the
passages from Revelation 11?
--
φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν
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| User: "Flowerchild8245" |
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| Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ |
23 Jan 2006 03:51:24 AM |
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*The Revelation of Jesus Christ
This masterpiece of poetry and symbolism is a deep water, the spirit
speaks in a very metaphorical manner. The nature is that it IS A
Revelation of Jesus Christ; Yeshua Messiah, His life and times and
coming into power bringing the kingdom of God to mankind. Presented in
a remarkable fashion of poetry and symbolism, bringing to life the
spiritual battles and events pertaining to Messiah, his birth, life,
death, rising from the dead, and His coming into power and glory, all
in a short story of what John had seen, what was, and what was shortly
to come to pass. It is said scrolls were given to saints in Israel in
69AD, even servants and disciples of Messiah in Jerusalem. Best to
start at page one:
[Rev 1:1-3] The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show
to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known
by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word
of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and
blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the
time is near.
CAPS for emphasis, not shouting:
Take heed, it is; THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST, which God
gave HIM to show to HIS SERVANTS the things that MUST SOON TAKE PLACE.
And saying; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR.
The Spirit speaks in a beautiful and poetic, very symbolic
manner pertaing to the manifestation of Christ into power, a
"disclosure" of events in His battle for Victory. The Spirit sees
things we cannot see and brings them to life in amazing metaphor.
"Revelation" is from the Greek word "apokalupsis", it means :
G602
apokalupsis
ap-ok-al'-oop-sis
From G601; disclosure: - appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be
revealed, revelation.
The great book of symbolism is a fulfillment of O.T. prophecy,
the time was at hand as it was written, and this was not written
yesterday, and it was NOT SEALED as the prophecies of Daniel written
hundreds of years before were , and were pertaining to it. It was to
happen "soon", "without delay", "quickly", because the time was at
hand. Just as Jesus could be heard saying all over town (Jerusalem) in
His time; "The kingdom of God is at hand!", so now about 40 years later
the "disclosure" was given:
Rev 22:10 And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy
of this book, for the time is near.
Even those who pierced Him whould see the signs of His coming
with a sword, and feel His fiery arrows of "lightning", warfare, power,
and vengance, even those, even many of the same who cried out "His
blood be upon us and our children", the same sons and daughters of
Jerusalem that had stood with Him as He was among them in a flesh body,
even that soon. After all, the time WAS at hand:
Rev 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see
him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail
on account of him. Even so. Amen.
A metaphorical zoo too...
The Ancient of Days made all things, having great pride in them!
Animals, plants and trees; valleys, mountains and seas of the Earth.
And all these to please mankind, Himself being quite pleased!
I have noticed how the Spirit speaks often of them in scripture, often
comparing mankind to growing things, grass, flowers, trees, and to
animals, wolfs, sheep, wolfes in sheeps clothing, vipers, dogs, and so
on...many beasts of the air and the field. Nations to mountains and
cities, to valleys and rivers and seas. And many things therein are
mentioned; Arrows of lightning and fire; warfare, clouds and power
very frightening.
Animals each have their own character, Bears front paws are very
strong, the Lion has very strong jaws, Eagles have great eyes, Horses
feel the strength in their leggs, Rams have a very hard head, Monkeys
climb to the top of a trees very fast...and so on. And God likes it!
He likes the way they do what they do, Often comparing the character of
the creation to the character of a man, nation, land, all mankind is
the scriptures.
When the Spirit says "The lamb will sup with the Lion", you can be
sure it's not a literal lion or a literal lamb sharing a legg of lamb,
but a way the Spirit speaks of all creation while speaking to man, a
way of saying "There will be peace among you". When we read about seven
headed dragons or beasts, it is a frightfull power with seven powers or
chief officers, not a literal giant lizard that breathes literal fire
literally having seven heads.
Exquisite symbolism and poetic metaphor pertaining to Yeshua Messiah
bringing the kingdom of God to mankind, becoming a Son of Man. The LORD
came, and His strong arm was victorious over all things and rules for
Him, and having the keys to death and the grave, even death and the
grave were abolished into an obyss of sin, a sea of forgetfulness; the
lake of fire-second death.
Rev 1:9 I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the
kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island
called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 1:10-11 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind
me a loud voice like a trumpet saying, "Write what you see in a book
and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to
Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to
Laodicea."
Rev 1:12-16 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me,
and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the
lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a
golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white like
wool, as white as snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet
were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was
like the roar of many waters. In his right hand he held seven stars,
from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the
sun shining in full strength.
Rev 1:17-20 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he
laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the
last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore,
and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
Write therefore the things that you have seen, those that are and
those that are to
take place after this.
John turned around and seen the Son of Man, and Jesus sad "I HAVE the
keys of death and the grave". This was not a vision, this was the Son
of Man. This was years after Hebrews was written. He had the keys. This
was about fourty years after Jesus rose from the dead, written between
67-70 AD. Im sure John took a few years to write it all down in such a
flawless poetic presentation of symbolism, sneaking a scroll out of his
prison every so often for about three years or so.
[]
12. *Love is the answer, hate is the problem:
Remember this, and this I know, for the Bible tells me so; If you
or I are made able to understand all mysteries and know all
prophecy...it don't mean a thing if you ain't got that swing... called
Love. Enjoy the swing! Above all things, love God, love one another. Be
kind, be cool, be caring, be genuine, be real to eachother.
Mat 22:34-40* But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the
Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them,
which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy
soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
How do we tell God we love him ?
[John 14:15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Lip service is not enough. If one truly loves God with all their
heart, soul, and mind, they will love one another, thats why "loving
one another" is "like it", like the greatest commandment. Because if we
love one another we will not murder them, have their spouse, steal from
them, accuse an innocent person, and we will honor our father's and
mother's. That IS how we tell God we love Him, by keeping His
commandments. The commandments were not given for God to demand things
from us from on high somewhere, and for His glory, but for Man and his
shortcomings.
Shine on. Shine as an ambassador of the kingdom of God, shining with
the light of Christ, and all people bringing their light into the
kingdom of God. (Light so bright there is no night.) The kingdom of
God, the bride, she says; "Who will enter ?, come ye, get in!".
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ |
23 Jan 2006 08:26:59 AM |
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"Flowerchild8245" <shaqad@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1138009884.337539.230640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
*The Revelation of Jesus Christ
This masterpiece of poetry and symbolism is a deep water, the spirit
speaks in a very metaphorical manner. The nature is that it IS A
Revelation of Jesus Christ;
It is not "a Revelation of Jesus Christ."
Given its grammatical form, it is literally, "Jesus' Christ's revelation,"
where the object, the revelation, is possessed by Jesus Christ. In other
words, it is "the Revelation belonging to Jesus Christ," not "the Revelation
about Jesus Christ."
Jesus Christ is already revealed in the Gospels and Epistles.
Revelation is about the unveiling of the church, a subject covered in
another word of which you screwed up the interpretation.
Yeshua Messiah, His life and times and
coming into power bringing the kingdom of God to mankind.
No, it's about Jesus and the church coming IN power into the world, a thing
which has not yet occurred.
Presented in
a remarkable fashion of poetry and symbolism, bringing to life the
spiritual battles and events pertaining to Messiah, his birth, life,
death, rising from the dead, and His coming into power and glory, all
in a short story of what John had seen, what was, and what was shortly
to come to pass.
Nope.
All that was already established in the Gospels and Epistles.
And you didn't get a single statement right.
There is nothing in Revelation about the "spiritual battles and events
pertaining to the Messiah," nothing about "his birth," some things about His
life in terms of His mission between His death and resurrection, and after
His ascension (which is a real wild ride dealing with the three dimensions
of time), and, most of all, there is nothing in there about Jesus "coming
into power," but coming IN power.
And, as always, the "shortly come to pass" is a perspective and relative
term, depending on the nature of what "was," what "is," and what "will be"
as continuously rotating terms, a fact that the ignorant and unlearned
continue to ignore, to their destruction.
It is said scrolls were given to saints in Israel in
69AD, even servants and disciples of Messiah in Jerusalem. Best to
start at page one:
[Rev 1:1-3] The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show
to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known
by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word
of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and
blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the
time is near.
CAPS for emphasis, not shouting:
Take heed, it is; THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST, which God
gave HIM to show to HIS SERVANTS the things that MUST SOON TAKE PLACE.
And saying; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR.
First of all, there are about a dozen elements of this passage of which you
have no knowledge.
1) The first three verses are the scribes introduction, written in the third
person.
2) The scribe, like everyone else, assumed that John was speaking of "now,"
when John was speaking of "then."
3) The scribes lays out the hierarchy of seven, i.e. God gave the revelation
to Jesus, who dispatched an angel, who gave it to John, who dictated it to
the scribe, to be delivered to the "readers" of the seven churches, to be
read to the congregations, i.e. the seven churches themselves.
4) In this introduction, the scribe lays out the three types of sections in
Revelation, making it a triune book:
The Word of God = The chronological scroll.
The Testimony of Jesus Christ = the seven letters.
The Things John Saw = the seven supplemental visions scattered throughout
Revelation.
5) The scribe specifically details the manner in which Revelation is
conveyed, using the phrase "esemanen apostolis," "esemanen" being the root
of the modern word "semantic," and "apistolis" meaning "dispatched."
So, the entire book was semantically dispatched, conveyed in a manner that
the unlearned and unstable, such as yourself, do wrest, guessing what things
in Revelation mean instead of taking the time to research each and every
symbolism, device, reference, etc. means before drawing any false
conclusions, such as the fact that Revelation is not about the past, but
about the future.
The Spirit speaks in a beautiful and poetic, very symbolic
manner pertaing to the manifestation of Christ into power, a
"disclosure" of events in His battle for Victory. The Spirit sees
things we cannot see and brings them to life in amazing metaphor.
"Revelation" is from the Greek word "apokalupsis", it means :
G602
apokalupsis
ap-ok-al'-oop-sis
From G601; disclosure: - appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be
revealed, revelation.
Now that you deliberately left out the actual definition of "apokalupsis"
and jumped to the root meaning, go back and get it right.
Apokalupsis literally means "to snatch away the veil."
And there is indeed a veil to be removed--from the bride, not from Jesus
Christ. The facts surrounding Jesus Christ are known. It is the destiny of
the church which is unknown.
As I said before, Revelation is about the unveiling of the church, NOT Jesus
Christ, except to the extent that one must know what Jesus Christ has going
for Him to know what the church has going for it.
This alone makes the context future tense, not past tense.
The great book of symbolism is a fulfillment of O.T. prophecy,
the time was at hand as it was written, and this was not written
yesterday, and it was NOT SEALED as the prophecies of Daniel written
hundreds of years before were , and were pertaining to it.
Yo, idiot: The "great book" is a construct of Old Testament prophecies.
Or didn't you notice that John is constantly citing Old Testament
prophecies.
And what are a bunch of Old Testament prophecies, already fulfilled in their
time, doing in a book that is supposedly about our times?
There is that "reiteration" thing, which the unlearned and unstable are
willingly ignorant of.
It was to
happen "soon", "without delay", "quickly", because the time was at
hand. Just as Jesus could be heard saying all over town (Jerusalem) in
His time; "The kingdom of God is at hand!", so now about 40 years later
the "disclosure" was given:
Quickly, in short order, in a rush, from "en taxai," i.e. "like a flood," in
reference to swiftness, not imminence.
It's not "soon."
Rev 22:10 And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy
of this book, for the time is near.
Even those who pierced Him whould see the signs of His coming
with a sword, and feel His fiery arrows of "lightning", warfare, power,
and vengance, even those, even many of the same who cried out "His
blood be upon us and our children", the same sons and daughters of
Jerusalem that had stood with Him as He was among them in a flesh body,
even that soon. After all, the time WAS at hand:
"a" time was at hand, but "the" time was not at hand.
And you must have never heard that the resurrection is of the just and
unjust. If Jesus is coming with the "clouds," i.e. the witnesses, guess who
is on the "earth?" The unjust. In other words, if the saints throughout time
are coming with Jesus Christ, the "other team" is coming with Satan.
But this you are also willingly ignorant of.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see
him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail
on account of him. Even so. Amen.
A metaphorical zoo too...
And Jesus has not come with the "clouds," i.e. the witnesses, EVERY eye has
not seen Him return, those who pierced Him have NOT been raised in the
resurrection of the unjust, and all the tribes of the earth have not mourned
upon seeing Him.
Hence, the story is not over.
The story hasn't even begun.
The Ancient of Days made all things, having great pride in them!
Animals, plants and trees; valleys, mountains and seas of the Earth.
And all these to please mankind, Himself being quite pleased!
If you think Revelation is about "animals, plants, trees, valleys,
mountains, and seas," you truly are ignorant of the contents of the book.
Every one of these things has a symbolic meaning established in the
scriptures.
Learn the scriptures and you learn the meanings, and vice versa.
You don't know either.
I have noticed how the Spirit speaks often of them in scripture, often
comparing mankind to growing things, grass, flowers, trees, and to
animals, wolfs, sheep, wolfes in sheeps clothing, vipers, dogs, and so
on...many beasts of the air and the field. Nations to mountains and
cities, to valleys and rivers and seas. And many things therein are
mentioned; Arrows of lightning and fire; warfare, clouds and power
very frightening.
Animals each have their own character, Bears front paws are very
strong, the Lion has very strong jaws, Eagles have great eyes, Horses
feel the strength in their leggs, Rams have a very hard head, Monkeys
climb to the top of a trees very fast...and so on. And God likes it!
He likes the way they do what they do, Often comparing the character of
the creation to the character of a man, nation, land, all mankind is
the scriptures.
Everything you just said is a lot of ignorant guesswork. If you're not going
to do your homework, shut up about what you do not know.
When the Spirit says "The lamb will sup with the Lion", you can be
sure it's not a literal lion or a literal lamb sharing a legg of lamb,
but a way the Spirit speaks of all creation while speaking to man, a
way of saying "There will be peace among you". When we read about seven
headed dragons or beasts, it is a frightfull power with seven powers or
chief officers, not a literal giant lizard that breathes literal fire
literally having seven heads.
OK, ignorant one: Interpret the text, and I'm not talking about
"impressions;" I'm talking about specific references and specific meanings:
"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down
with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and
a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their
young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the
ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned
child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
"They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth
shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."
Exquisite symbolism and poetic metaphor pertaining to Yeshua Messiah
bringing the kingdom of God to mankind, becoming a Son of Man. The LORD
came, and His strong arm was victorious over all things and rules for
Him, and having the keys to death and the grave, even death and the
grave were abolished into an obyss of sin, a sea of forgetfulness; the
lake of fire-second death.
None of which is accomplished yet.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they
that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,
even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and
power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things
are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all
things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also
himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be
all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise
not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
*************************************************************************
Rev 1:9 I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the
kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island
called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 1:10-11 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind
me a loud voice like a trumpet saying, "Write what you see in a book
and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to
Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to
Laodicea."
Rev 1:12-16 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me,
and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the
lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a
golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white like
wool, as white as snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet
were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was
like the roar of many waters. In his right hand he held seven stars,
from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the
sun shining in full strength.
Rev 1:17-20 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he
laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the
last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore,
and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
Write therefore the things that you have seen, those that are and
those that are to
take place after this.
****************************************************************************
Now specifically interpret each and every saying in these passages.
1) What do they mean.
2) Where do they come from.
3) To what do they refer.
DO NOT cite a bunch of random verses as if they are evidence of anything if
you DON'T know the form and function of the texts.
[snip]
Let's just scrap the rest of the impressionistic garbage.
The bottom line is you haven't a clue as to what any of this is about, but
come saying stupid feminine-minded things like "oh, isn't this lovely" and
"oh, isn't that beautiful," all sayings to mask your ignorance.
It's no wonder Paul said he doesn't suffer a woman to teach, with women like
you setting back every advancement about two centuries at least.
Ike
--
"Many shall come saying...'The time draws near:' Go ye not after them."
******************************
"The Character Map: An Introduction to the Introductions in Revelation" is
now available in hardcover, softcover, and ebook editions.
For a synopsis, author bio, an explanation of the real "code" in Revelation,
an excerpt, and links to major sales sites, visit
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
Remove X from address to reply
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| User: "baba" |
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| Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ |
23 Jan 2006 07:24:47 PM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Gq-dndwTCtYteknenZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Flowerchild8245" <shaqad@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1138009884.337539.230640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
*The Revelation of Jesus Christ
{(much snippage for relevancy)}
Let's just scrap the rest of the impressionistic garbage.
The bottom line is you haven't a clue as to what any of this is about, but
come saying stupid feminine-minded things like "oh, isn't this lovely" and
"oh, isn't that beautiful," all sayings to mask your ignorance.
It's no wonder Paul said he doesn't suffer a woman to teach, with women
like you setting back every advancement about two centuries at least.
Ike
--
"Many shall come saying...'The time draws near:' Go ye not after them."
******************************
--------------------->
Way to go Ike...But just one thing, Jerry (flowerchildxxxx) is a guy...
Apparently his old website with a pix of his ugly mug is no longer up,
but you can listen to him and his high pitch whining here:
http://www.mixposure.com/song.php?songid=4443
(BTW, Jerry Berry, still too slow...)
If you Google him you'll see he changes his understanding about as often as
he changes his pants.
Regards,
baba
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ |
23 Jan 2006 08:17:04 PM |
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"baba" <bbdd@terra.spoof.net> wrote in message
news:XifBf.9928$SC1.4755@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Gq-dndwTCtYteknenZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Flowerchild8245" <shaqad@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1138009884.337539.230640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
*The Revelation of Jesus Christ
{(much snippage for relevancy)}
Let's just scrap the rest of the impressionistic garbage.
The bottom line is you haven't a clue as to what any of this is about,
but come saying stupid feminine-minded things like "oh, isn't this
lovely" and "oh, isn't that beautiful," all sayings to mask your
ignorance.
It's no wonder Paul said he doesn't suffer a woman to teach, with women
like you setting back every advancement about two centuries at least.
Ike
--
"Many shall come saying...'The time draws near:' Go ye not after them."
******************************
--------------------->
Way to go Ike...But just one thing, Jerry (flowerchildxxxx) is a guy...
Apparently his old website with a pix of his ugly mug is no longer up,
but you can listen to him and his high pitch whining here:
http://www.mixposure.com/song.php?songid=4443
(BTW, Jerry Berry, still too slow...)
If you Google him you'll see he changes his understanding about as often
as he changes his pants.
Regards,
baba
Oh, man, the whole thing sounds way to scary to me.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
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| User: "baba" |
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| Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ |
23 Jan 2006 09:17:24 PM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6MOdnUjr7vyAE0jeRVn-qw@comcast.com...
"baba" <bbdd@terra.spoof.net> wrote in message
news:XifBf.9928$SC1.4755@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Gq-dndwTCtYteknenZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Flowerchild8245" <shaqad@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1138009884.337539.230640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
*The Revelation of Jesus Christ
{(much snippage for relevancy)}
Let's just scrap the rest of the impressionistic garbage.
The bottom line is you haven't a clue as to what any of this is about,
but come saying stupid feminine-minded things like "oh, isn't this
lovely" and "oh, isn't that beautiful," all sayings to mask your
ignorance.
It's no wonder Paul said he doesn't suffer a woman to teach, with women
like you setting back every advancement about two centuries at least.
Ike
--
"Many shall come saying...'The time draws near:' Go ye not after them."
******************************
--------------------->
Way to go Ike...But just one thing, Jerry (flowerchildxxxx) is a guy...
Apparently his old website with a pix of his ugly mug is no longer up,
but you can listen to him and his high pitch whining here:
http://www.mixposure.com/song.php?songid=4443
(BTW, Jerry Berry, still too slow...)
If you Google him you'll see he changes his understanding about as often
as he changes his pants.
Regards,
baba
Oh, man, the whole thing sounds way to scary to me.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
------------------->
not too bad a song really, but he plays so slow it sounds like a funeral
procession.
If you decide to waste some time Googling him search for "Shaqad" or
"show4jerry" under newsgroups.
You'll see then that he comes to a different conclusion every 3 or 4 months
(which wouldn't be so bad if he was growing from his reading, but it seems
he's growing in reverse, soon he'll implode ;-)
-baba
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| User: "baba" |
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| Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ |
23 Jan 2006 09:26:34 PM |
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"baba" <bbdd@terra.spoof.net> wrote in message
news:wYgBf.6180$vp6.3201@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6MOdnUjr7vyAE0jeRVn-qw@comcast.com...
"baba" <bbdd@terra.spoof.net> wrote in message
news:XifBf.9928$SC1.4755@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <Xeickleberrybooks@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Gq-dndwTCtYteknenZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Flowerchild8245" <shaqad@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1138009884.337539.230640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
*The Revelation of Jesus Christ
{(much snippage for relevancy)}
Let's just scrap the rest of the impressionistic garbage.
The bottom line is you haven't a clue as to what any of this is about,
but come saying stupid feminine-minded things like "oh, isn't this
lovely" and "oh, isn't that beautiful," all sayings to mask your
ignorance.
It's no wonder Paul said he doesn't suffer a woman to teach, with women
like you setting back every advancement about two centuries at least.
Ike
--
"Many shall come saying...'The time draws near:' Go ye not after them."
******************************
--------------------->
Way to go Ike...But just one thing, Jerry (flowerchildxxxx) is a guy...
Apparently his old website with a pix of his ugly mug is no longer up,
but you can listen to him and his high pitch whining here:
http://www.mixposure.com/song.php?songid=4443
(BTW, Jerry Berry, still too slow...)
If you Google him you'll see he changes his understanding about as often
as he changes his pants.
Regards,
baba
Oh, man, the whole thing sounds way to scary to me.
Ike
www.eickleberrybooks.com
------------------->
not too bad a song really, but he plays so slow it sounds like a funeral
procession.
If you decide to waste some time Googling him search for "Shaqad" or
"show4jerry" under newsgroups.
You'll see then that he comes to a different conclusion every 3 or 4
months (which wouldn't be so bad if he was growing from his reading, but
it seems he's growing in reverse, soon he'll implode ;-)
-baba
example:
Jerry
Jul 30 2003, 9:15 pm show options
Newsgroups: alt.bible.prophecy
From: (Jerry) - Find messages by this author
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:01:06 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Jul 30 2003 9:01 pm
Subject: Re: **JERUSALEM TOUTED AS WORLD'S CAPITAL***
Re: **JERUSALEM TOUTED AS WORLD'S CAPITAL***
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Wed, Jul 30, 2003, 6:04pm (PDT+3) From:
Unia...@Cy-cit-Rot.ca (Cy the Rot)
"Jerry" <> wrote in message
news:9841-3F283A73-42@storefull-2333.public.lawson.webtv.net...
And so it will be.
It has been said,Christ Jesus the LORD will govern the nations
through 1000 years of peace from Jerusalem,then after the 1000
years,Almighty GOD will bring the Holy City to Earth,living with men,on
the new earth,forever.
Jerry
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ |
23 Jan 2006 11:52:39 PM |
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"baba" <bbdd@terra.spoof.net> wrote in message
news:55hBf.6184$vp6.1379@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
[snip]
Re: **JERUSALEM TOUTED AS WORLD'S CAPITAL***
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Wed, Jul 30, 2003, 6:04pm (PDT+3) From:
Unia...@Cy-cit-Rot.ca (Cy the Rot)
"Jerry" <show4je...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9841-3F283A73-42@storefull-2333.public.lawson.webtv.net...
And so it will be.
It has been said,Christ Jesus the LORD will govern the nations
through 1000 years of peace from Jerusalem,then after the 1000
years,Almighty GOD will bring the Holy City to Earth,living with men,on
the new earth,forever.
Jerry
Actually, there is one more conflict at the end of the millennium, the
battle of Gog, Magog, and Hamen-Gog, which means "high ones, thousands of
high ones, nations of high ones." This battle occurs when Satan is released
and gathers forces against God one last time, committing his seventh and
final sin.
With this, God reigns fire on the earth, fulfilling those "other" prophecies
of the destruction of the earth.
The universe is then transformed, incorporating that which is holy, and
repelling that which is unholy. This establishes the eternal "unity" within
and the eternal "disunity" without.
What John sees as the "holy city" and "the bride" is one huge metaphorical
construct called "New Jerusalem." The funny part is, Paul says "Jerusalem
which is above is mother of us all," which is a marvelous revelation in
itself--the construct that comes into existence at the end of the story is
actually the construct that has been with us since the beginning of the
story, or, as God says to Job, "Where were you when I laid the foundations
of the earth...when the morning stars and the sons of God shouted for
joy..."
In other words, eternity is not a ray into the future, but an eternal line
going in both directions, and that which is established at the end of the
story has always existed.
This is pretty heady stuff, but the implications are wonderful beyond
compare.
But that's the end of the story, and the grandest part of it.
First, we have to get through the awful beginning of it.
Ike
--
"Many shall come saying...'The time draws near:' Go ye not after them."
******************************
"The Character Map: An Introduction to the Introductions in Revelation" is
now available in hardcover, softcover, and ebook editions.
For a synopsis, author bio, an explanation of the real "code" in Revelation,
an excerpt, and links to major sales sites, visit
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
Remove X from address to reply
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ |
23 Jan 2006 05:50:57 AM |
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Yes! A witness . Christ is come ,Christ in you the hope of glory. The
kingdom of God is inside of us. Peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. The
righteousness of God which is in Christ Jesus. Jesus appeared to Saul,
after Jesus had died rose agin and sat down at the right hand of the
Father. He appeared to Saul. who had been a very religious man if one
could have been righteouse by the law he should have been. But he with
zeal thougfht he was doing the work of God persecuting the body of
Christ in the earth at that time. Jesus said to him why persecutest
thou me? There was a transformation that took place in the man Saul on
that day. That great light. which is Christ Jesus came in and all the
darkness had to go from him. we were being rulled by the prince of
darkness, until he comes and translates us out of the kingdom of
darkness into the kingdom of his dear Son. He has called us out of
darkness into the kingdom of God. To be a light in a dark place. but
until he did call me I could not see the kingdom of God. He siad you
must be born agin to see the kingdom of God. Paul counted all he knew
before as dung. We cannot serve two masters. I am thankful for the law
of the spirit of life inChrist Jesus that has made me free from the
law of sin and of death. We are made alive to share this good news to
all who will listen.
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Re: Evidences of a world wide flood in history!
Num 25, World English Bible
Re: The Flood in the Legends of the World & THREATS
Exodus 19, World English Bible
The Acts of the Apostles 14, World English Bible
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