The leaven of the Pharisees

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"Doug"
Date:	13 Dec 2007 08:00:21 AM
Object:	The leaven of the Pharisees

When Jesus warned his disciples to "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees",
they misunderstood.
The story is in Matthew 16. The disciples supposed he was referring to the
fact they had forgotten to bring bread. Jesus reminded them of the miracle
of feeding 5,000 people, and of another miracle when he fed 4,000 people,
and of how several baskets of food were taken up afterwards in each case.
He stated that he was not referring to bread, when he said "beware of the
leaven of the Pharisees". Then they realized he was referring to their
doctrine.
So why was the doctrine of the Pharisees like leaven? There is no reference
to the particular doctrine Jesus was referring to. But the story in
Matthew's account indicates what he meant. There was something about their
teachings that was like leaven in a lump of bread. It permeated all their
beliefs, and their lifestyle. It caused them to misunderstand the holy
scriptures, and the message of Jesus.
What was this "leaven"? The comment by Jesus, that he was not referring to
bread, provides a clue. It was the same mistake that the disciples of Jesus
had made! They took his words too literally, when they thought he was
referring to bread. They misunderstood his words on several occasions,
besides this one. Leaven was symbolic of a literal approach. That applies
to their view of the scriptures, and to the words of Jesus. Their literal
reading of the law caused the Pharisees to miss its spiritual meaning.
Literalism permeated the teachings of the Pharisees and the Sadducees. The
Pharisees followed the letter of the law, but failed to comprehend God's
love. Jesus said they omit the weightier matters of the law, judgement,
mercy, and faith, Matt 23:23. They missed the true meaning of the
scriptures, just as the disciples had failed to understand what Jesus
meant, when he mentioned leaven.
The Pharisees received many criticisms from Jesus in Matthew 23. Their
literal interpretations and rules put heavy burdens on people, but they
exempted themselves. They made a show of their own importance, and their
own righteousness. They hindered those who were entering the kingdom of
God. They appeared very righteous and religious outwardly, but inside, they
were full of iniquity. So, Jesus warned against the literal, but
superficial view, the "leaven" of the Pharisees!
Doug
.

User: "Bill M"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	13 Dec 2007 10:49:16 AM

"Doug" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
news:28qdnaNcouNop_zanZ2dnUVZ_rvinZ2d@sentex.net...

When Jesus warned his disciples to "beware of the leaven of the
Pharisees",
they misunderstood.

The story is in Matthew 16. The disciples supposed he was referring to the
fact they had forgotten to bring bread. Jesus reminded them of the miracle
of feeding 5,000 people, and of another miracle when he fed 4,000 people,
and of how several baskets of food were taken up afterwards in each case.

He stated that he was not referring to bread, when he said "beware of the
leaven of the Pharisees". Then they realized he was referring to their
doctrine.

So why was the doctrine of the Pharisees like leaven? There is no
reference
to the particular doctrine Jesus was referring to. But the story in
Matthew's account indicates what he meant. There was something about their
teachings that was like leaven in a lump of bread. It permeated all their
beliefs, and their lifestyle. It caused them to misunderstand the holy
scriptures, and the message of Jesus.

What was this "leaven"? The comment by Jesus, that he was not referring to
bread, provides a clue. It was the same mistake that the disciples of
Jesus
had made! They took his words too literally, when they thought he was
referring to bread. They misunderstood his words on several occasions,
besides this one. Leaven was symbolic of a literal approach. That applies
to their view of the scriptures, and to the words of Jesus. Their literal
reading of the law caused the Pharisees to miss its spiritual meaning.
Literalism permeated the teachings of the Pharisees and the Sadducees. The
Pharisees followed the letter of the law, but failed to comprehend God's
love. Jesus said they omit the weightier matters of the law, judgement,
mercy, and faith, Matt 23:23. They missed the true meaning of the
scriptures, just as the disciples had failed to understand what Jesus
meant, when he mentioned leaven.

The Pharisees received many criticisms from Jesus in Matthew 23. Their
literal interpretations and rules put heavy burdens on people, but they
exempted themselves. They made a show of their own importance, and their
own righteousness. They hindered those who were entering the kingdom of
God. They appeared very righteous and religious outwardly, but inside,
they
were full of iniquity. So, Jesus warned against the literal, but
superficial view, the "leaven" of the Pharisees!

Doug

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are
available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable
veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the
invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were
supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They
are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy. And
the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's
belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions
alone.
The Bible is true because the Bible says it is true! This is evidence of
truth???
There is NO - NADA _evidence the Bibles are the word of any Gods. They are
no more than the words of hundreds of errant religious leaders motivated to
impress and control their flock.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence as to their authenticity and
veracity. The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding,
misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not
accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an
insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction.
NONE of the Bibles were written during Jesus' 'CLAIMED LIFE TIME'. Time and
distance was required to allow the creation of fictional stories and the
embellishment of history. There is NO evidence that the claimed Jesus ever
wrote a word!
There is also the matter of the Biblical canon itself. After all, ancient
Israel and the early church knew of many more religious books than the ones
that now constitute the Bible. For example, there were over 50 gospels in
circulation at the time New Testaments were chosen by church leaders, yet
only four made it into the New Testament. Who decided which of the books
would become part of the Christian scriptures, and again, "Why?" Who
decided, "This book belongs... this book doesn't..."? What were their
reasons? What were their motives? How do we know if ANY of them were
authentic? In addition there is evidence that the Bibles were altered by
church leaders to support their personal motives and ambitions.
The fact is, there are no clear records available which document the
church's process of determining which books were acceptable and which books
were unacceptable and why. The general consensus of opinion among scholars
is that the decision was based on whether or not the book agreed with the
prevailing theological thought and motives at the time. In other words, the
only books accepted were the ones that agreed with the opinions, desires and
motives of the church leadership at the time
It is interesting to note that NONE of the Bibles were written during Jesus'
claimed life time. It seems time needed to pass to permit the creation of
tales and the embellishment of history.
According to Bart Ehrman, professor and Chair of the Dept. of Religious
Studies at the University of North Carolina, The Bible is not the error-free
word of any god. There are some 5,700 ancient Greek manuscripts that are the
basis of the modern versions of the New Testament, and scholars have
uncovered more thousands of differences in those texts.
The last 12 verses of the Gospel of Mark appear to have been added to the
text many years later -- and these are the only verses in that book that
mention Christ reappearing after his death.
Another critical passage is in 1 John, which explicitly sets out the Holy
Trinity (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). It is a cornerstone of
Christian theology, and this is the only place where it appears in any of
the Bibles -- and it appears to have been added to the text centuries later,
by an unknown scribe.
For a man who originally believed the Bible was the inspired Word of God,
Ehrman sought the true originals to shore up his faith. The problem: he
found there are NO original manuscripts of ANY of the Bibles - Old or New
Testaments!
If the history of the resurrection of Christ had not really happened, the
message . . . according to the authority of the apostle Paul, had to be
'null and void'. Ehrman slowly came to a horrifying realization: There was
no real historical record. It was, he felt, no more than myths and fables,
told by illiterate men and not set down in writing for decades that
followed.
There is no solid agreement even within the Christian community on the
interpretation of the Bibles. There are 18 English versions alone. There are
thousands of variations and opinions as to the meaning of various Biblical
statements.
If Jesus was God, why did he not leave behind an authentic record of his
rules and commands? Why are there NO Biblical documents written during his
'claimed' time on earth? The Old Testaments were written 'before his birth'.
The New Testaments were written '60 and more years after his death' by men
that could never have known Jesus personally. NONE were written during his
'claimed' life time. Studies by Tony Busby indicate the new testaments were
really not compiled until the third century by the church leadership at the
time.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence as to their authenticity and
veracity. The Bibles contain both historical and scientific errors. They
contain manifest absurdities, unfulfilled prophesies, immoralities,
indecencies, obscenities, atrocities, barbarities, myths, folklore and
legends. They are nothing more than hearsay, myths, contradictions and
implausible tales.
Here is just a small sampling of implausible Bible stories.
The Fallacy of Miracles
Is Jesus divine because of his miracles, particularly that he raised the
dead? If so, then why is he singled out as special when others have done the
same long before? Moses parted the sea, changed a stick into a serpent, and
changed water into blood. Must he not have been divine? We have seen Elisha
do the same sort of miracles as Jesus. Elisha raised the dead,
resurrected himself, healed a leper, fed a hundred people with twenty barley
loaves and a few ears of corn, and healed a blind man (2 Kings 4:35; 13:21;
5:14; 4:44; 6:11), while Elijah made an inexhaustible bowl of flour and an
inexhaustible jar of oil, and also raised the dead (1 Kings 17:14, 22). Why
are they not equal to Jesus, if such miracles denote divinity? Indeed,
someone in the Jewish scriptures far surpasses Jesus in raising up dead
bodies-Ezekiel raised "a great, an immense army", and all in one go (Ezekiel
37:1-10). In fact, the miracle of stopping the sun in its daily rotation
(Joshua 10:12-13) was a vastly greater miracle than just raising a few dead.
The story of creation
A totally illogical Biblical story is the story of creation. It is obviously
pure fiction.
Genesis says that God created first the earth, then the Sun and Moon.
We know from astronomical data that our Sun and Moon is much older than the
earth. And all of these are older by eons than man. Only uneducated
egocentric humans could have written such nonsense.
Biblically, God created the world about six thousand years ago. 'Scientific
Evidence' indicates the Universe, as we now know it, began more than 13
BILLION years ago or more.
In the Bible, the Universe is a firmament and the Earth is a fixed (not to
mention flat) Planet and the Son, Moon and other planets revolve around the
earth. This was believed until modern scientific inquiry showed this was
totally false. We now KNOW the Earth revolves around the Son and the
Universe is over 20 BILLION light years in diameter and is made up of
trillions of Stars and Planets of which our planetary system is a very
miniscule and inconsequential part. There was no concept of a 'Universe' in
Biblical times.
Everything beyond our immediate Son and planets was considered Heaven.
In the Bible the earth is created in the first day, before the Son, Moon and
Stars. Objective scientific evidence is that the Earth did not form until
approximately 10 BILLION YEARS after the beginning of the present Universe
and after the formation of the Son, and many other stars.
The Creation of the World
Genesis
In the beginning of creation, when God made heaven and earth, the earth was
without form and void, with darkness over the face of the abyss, and a
mighty wind that swept over the surface of the waters. God said, Let there
be light, and there was light; and God saw that the light was good, and he
separated light from darkness. He called the light day, and the darkness
night. So evening came, and morning came, the first day. God created light
before he created the Sun and the Moon!
Astronomical evidence shows the Son existed long before the Earth; therefore
the earth was not created before the Son. It is equally obvious that the
writers of that time thought the World was the center the firmament and that
they had no conception of the size and nature of the Universe. Everything
beyond the Sun and Moon was considered to be gods Heaven
God said, Let there be a vault between the waters, to separate water from
water. So God made the vault, and separated the water under the vault from
the water above it, and so it was; and God called the vault heaven. Evening
came, and morning came, a second day.
God said; Let the waters under heaven be gathered into one place, so that
dry land may appear; and so it was. God called the dry land earth, and the
gathering of the waters he called seas; and God saw that it was good. Then
God said, Let the earth produce fresh growth, let there be on the earth
plants bearing seed, fruit-trees bearing fruit each with seed according to
its kind. So it was; the earth yielded fresh growth, plants bearing seed
according to their kind and trees bearing fruit each with seed according to
its king; and God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning came, a
third day.
And this good and loving God created animals that eat other animals (and
man) and poisonous plants and snakes that kill!
God said, Let there be lights in the vault of heaven to separate day from
night, and let them serve as signs both for festivals and for seasons and
years. Let them also shine in the vault of heaven to give light on earth. So
it was; God made the two great lights, the greater to govern the day and the
lesser to govern the night; and with them he made the stars. God put these
lights in the vault of heaven to give light on earth, to govern day and
night, and to separate light from darkness; and God saw that it was good.
Evening came, and morning came, a fourth day.
Ancient man erroneously thought the stars beyond the Sun and Moon to be
Heaven. The Moon was NOT considered a reflection from the light of the Sun
but a lesser light.
God, said, Let the waters teem with countless living creatures, and let
birds fly above the earth across the vault of heaven. God then created the
great sea-monsters and all living creatures that move and swarm in the
waters, according to their kind, and every kind of bird; and God saw that it
was good. So he blessed them and said, be fruitful and increase, fill the
waters of the seas; and let the birds increase on land. Evening came, and
morning came, a fifth day.
And this all loving God created creatures of that kill and eat other
creatures including man.
Archaeological evidence shows that animals evolved from primitive cells over
a period of about four billion years - not in one day!
God said, let the earth bring forth living creatures, according to their
kind: cattle, reptiles, and wild animals, all according to their kind. So it
was; God made wild animals, cattle, and all reptiles, each according to its
kind; and he saw that it was good. Then God said, Let us make man it our
image and likeness to rule the fish in the sea , the birds of heaven, the
cattle, all wild animals on earth, and all reptiles that crawl upon the
earth. So God created man in his own image; in the image of God he created
him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, be
fruitful and increase, fill the earth and subdue it, rule over the fish in
the sea, the birds of heaven, and every living thing that moves upon the
earth. God also said, I give you all plants that bear seed everywhere on
earth, and every tree bearing fruit which yields seed: they shall be yours
for food. All green plants I give for food to the wild animals, to all the
birds of heaven, and to all reptiles on earth, every living creature. So it
was; and God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. Evening came,
and morning came, a sixth day.
And God created animals that need to kill and eat other animals including
man in order to survive. This is a loving and caring God?
Thus heaven and earth were completed with all their mighty throng. On the
sixth day God completed all the work he had been doing, and on the seventh
day he ceased from all his work. God blessed the seventh day and made it
holy, because on that day he ceased from all the work he had set himself to
do and rested.
Why would a God that is not physical but spiritual, get tired and need rest?
If this creator is such a loving and caring guy, why does he permit totally
innocent children to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a
fully developed brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.?
Why are some born idiots and others with super intelligence?
Why does this loving and caring god create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes,
Volcanic Eruptions, Wars, cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions that effect people indiscriminately regardless of
their conduct or religious beliefs? Why does he permit millions of both
young and old to starve to death?
These afflict humans indiscriminately - young and old, atheists and members
of all religious beliefs.
Why did he design humans to suffer the decrepitude and malignancies of old
age? Even those that devote their lives to religious leadership suffer these
punishments of old age.
Why did this caring benevolent god create animals that need to eat other
animals to survive?
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. The objective evidence is that, if there is a
god creator, he has no concern about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
Adam and Eve
In the Bible, there are two different accounts of Adam and Eve's creation.
According to the Priestly (P) history of the 5th or 6th century BC (Genesis
1:1-2:4), God on the sixth day of Creation created all the living creatures
and, "in his own image," man both "male and female." God then blessed the
couple, told them to be "fruitful and multiply," and gave them dominion over
all other living things.
According to the lengthier Yahwist (J) narrative of the 10th century BC
(Genesis 2:5-7, 2:15-4:1, 4:25), God, or Yahweh, created Adam at a time when
the earth was still void, forming him from the earth's dust and breathing
"into his nostrils the breath of life." God then gave Adam the primeval
Garden of Eden to tend but, on penalty of death, commanded him not to eat of
the fruit of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." Subsequently, so that
Adam would not be alone, God created other animals but, finding these
insufficient, put Adam to sleep, took from him a rib, and created a new
companion, Eve. The two were persons of innocence until Eve yielded to the
temptations of the evil serpent and Adam joined her in eating the forbidden
fruit, whereupon they both recognized their nakedness and donned fig leaves
as garments. Immediately, God recognized their transgression and proclaimed
their punishments-for the woman, pain in childbirth and subordination to
man, and, for the man, relegation to an accursed ground with which he must
toil and sweat for his subsistence. Adam died at the age of 930!
In later Christian theology, the concept of original sin (q.v.) took hold-a
sin in which human kind has been held captive since the fall of Adam and
Eve. The doctrine was based on Pauline Scripture but has not been accepted
by a number of Christian sects and interpreters. Why should BILLIONS of
innocent people be punished over thousands of years for this original sin
that they had no part in?
This is both sadistic and ridiculous!
Jonah
As the story is related in the Book of Jonah, the prophet Jonah is called by
God to go to Nineveh (a great Assyrian city) and prophesy disaster because
of the city's wickedness. Jonah, in the story, feels about Nineveh as does
the author of the Book of Nahum-that the city must inevitably be destroyed
because of God's judgment against it. Thus Jonah does not want to prophesy,
because Nineveh might repent and thereby be saved. So he rushes down to
Joppa and takes passage in a ship that will carry him in the opposite
direction, thinking to escape God.
A storm of unprecedented severity strikes the ship, and it shows signs of
breaking up and foundering. Jonah confesses that it is his presence on board
that is causing the storm. At his request, he is thrown overboard, and the
storm subsides.
A "great fish," appointed by God, swallows Jonah, and he stays within the
fish's maw for three days and nights. He prays for deliverance and is
"vomited out" on dry land (ch. 2).
Totally implausible. He would have been digested by the fish in those three
days!
Sodom and Gomorrah
According to the Bible these cities and everyone in them, except Lot and his
family, were destroyed by fire and brimstone for their sinfulness. Lot's
wife was turned into a pillar of salt for disobeying God's command to not
look back at her city of birth being destroyed.
There is no way that EVERYONE in two cities could be so sinful, especially
innocent children, to deserve destruction by fire and brimstone.
Sodom and Gomorrah constituted, along with the cities of Admah, Zeboiim, and
Zoar (Bela), the five biblical "cities of the plain." Destroyed by"brimstone
and fire" because of their wickedness (Genesis 19:24).
Sodom and Gomorrah probably were devastated about 1900 BC by an earthquake
in the Dead Sea area of the Great Rift Valley, an extensive rift extending
from the Jordan River valley in Israel to the Zambezi River system in East
Africa. When the catastrophic destruction occurred, the petroleum and gases
existing in the area probably contributed to the imagery of "brimstone and
fire"
Cruel, inhumane and pure nonsense!
The Tower of Babel
Genesis 11.1 - 11.9
God became concerned that the Tower being built would reach his heaven.
He confounded the builders by giving them different languages so they could
no longer communicate with each other to continue the construction.
Why would this be of any concern to an all powerful God creator and wouldn't
this God creator realize that no tower could possibly reach his spiritual
heaven?
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE to
housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth.
2. How were the 1.7 MILLION species collected in a boat and
cared for by a few people. How did he manage to get them all back to Asia,
Africa, Australia, North America, South America, the Arctic and Antarctic?
3. And this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There
are 1.7 million KNOWN species of animals on this planet. This story is
patently impossible, using only materials and tools available to Noah, to
build an arch large enough to hold all these creatures, together with
suitable environments for each of them to live in, keeping them all
separated so they don't kill and eat each other. And then provide room and
an environment for many hundreds of millions of known species of insects,
plants, molds etc. on this planet?
4. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month
escapade?
5. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of food
and fresh water for the people and thousands of animals for them to survive.
What would the carnivores have eaten? Whatever prey they ate would have gone
extinct. How did they dispose of the thousands of tons of feces? It must
have been one stinking ship!
6. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
7. Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove
returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out
again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive
the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't
germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11.
8. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks as a greater tale than Santa
Claus, The Wizard of Oz, The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
Genesis 6:6
6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was
filled with pain.
7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face
of the earth: men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and
birds of the air-for I am grieved that I have made them."
9 Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he
walked with God.
Genesis 7
1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family,
because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven
[a] of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every
kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind
of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the
earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days
and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living
creature I have made."
6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth. 7
And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to
escape the waters of the flood. 8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of
birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female,
came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And after
the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.
This is patently ridiculous and impossible. How could they capture and load
over three million animals in a period of seven days???
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the
second month-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and
the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And rain fell on the earth
forty days and forty nights.
13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with
his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. 14 They had with
them every wild animal according to its kind, all livestock according to
their kinds, every creature that moves along the ground according to its
kind and every bird according to its kind, everything with wings. 15 Pairs
of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and
entered the ark. 16 The animals going in were male and female of every
living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the LORD shut him in.
17 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters
increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and
increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the
water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under
the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the
mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. [, 21 Every living thing that
moved on the earth perished-birds, livestock, wild animals, all the
creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry
land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing
on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures
that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the
earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.
This of course would have also killed all the vegetation on Earth!
Genesis 7:6 (New International Version)
6 Noah was "six hundred" years old when the floodwaters came on the earth.
7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to
escape the waters of the flood
Genesis 8
1 But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that
were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters
receded.
3 The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and
fifty days the water had gone down,
4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on
the mountains of Ararat.
5 The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day
of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible
And what did they eat until all the vegetation recovered from the flood???
Genesis 9 God's Covenant with Noah
1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and
increase in number and fill the earth.
2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and
all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground,
and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands.
3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you
the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand
an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an
accounting for the life of his fellow man.
Before man learned how to create a fire, he had no choice but to eat raw
meat!
Samson
Hebrew Shimshon, Israelite hero portrayed in an epic narrative in the Old
Testament (Judg. 13-16). He was a Nazirite (q.v.) and a legendary warrior
whose incredible exploits hint at the weight of Philistine pressure on
Israel during much of the early, tribal period of Israel in Canaan
(1200-1000).
Samson was claimed to possess extraordinary physical strength, and the moral
of his saga relates the disastrous loss of his power to the violation of his
Nazirite vow. Credited with remarkable exploits-e.g., the slaying of a lion
and moving the gates of Gaza-he first broke his religious promises by
feasting with a woman from the neighboring town of Timnah, who was also a
Philistine, one of Israel's mortal enemies. Other remarkable deeds follow;
e.g., his decimating the Philistines in a private war. On another occasion
he repulsed their assault on him at Gaza, where he had gone to visit a
harlot. He finally fell victim to his foes through love of Delilah, a woman
of the valley of Sorek, who beguiled him into revealing the secret of his
strength: his long Nazirite hair. As he slept, Delilah had his hair cut and
betrayed him. He was captured, blinded, and enslaved by the Philistines, but
in the end he was granted his revenge; through the return of his old
strength, he supposedly demolished the great Philistine temple of the god
Dagon, at Gaza, destroying his captors and himself (Judg.16:4-30).
A truly implausible tale!
God created a three level Universe - Heaven above, a flat World resting on
water. Genesis 1:6-10; 7:11; 8:2; 11:11-9; 19:24; 28:12-13; Exodus 20:4;
Numbers 16:30-33; Deuteronomy 33:17.
God created the Sun and the Moon on the fourth day but created light on the
first day! Genesis1:1-9; 14-19
It is claimed that the Eve, first woman, was created from one of Adam's
ribs.
Genesis 3:1-5 Men and women have the same number of ribs on each side of
their body? And in any case why would a god that has created the Universe
and everything in it need to take rib from Adam to create Eve???
The Bibles claim that a talking snake talked Eve into eating the forbidden
fruit.
The Bibles claim that Adam lived 930 years, Seth 912 years, Enosh 905 years,
Kenan910 years, Mahalael 895 years, Jared 962 years, Methuselah 969 years;
Lamech 777 years, and Noah 950 years. Genesis 5:-31; 9:29
God commanded that every baby boy at age of eight days be circumcised.
At that time sterilization (of knives) was unknown and many died of
infection for which they new no cure. Why did this almighty and all caring
God create baby boys with foreskins on their penis that he then required to
be painfully and dangerously removed?
This all caring and loving God sent ten horrible plagues upon the Egyptians
Exodus 7:14-12:32 and in his loving generosity gave Israel the land of the
Canaanites and the Israelites slaughtered every person of seven nations.
Twenty one million, men women and innocent children, were slaughtered
according to the Bible. Exodus 12:1-2
This is a loving god???
According to the verse, Jesus was being tempted by Satan, for forty
days. Assuming that Jesus is God, we are required to believe that God
was tempted by Satan, who was created by God in the first place.
[NIV, Mark 1:12-13]
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all
the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give
you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." Jesus said to
him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your
God, and serve him only.' " [NIV, Matthew 4:8-10] If Jesus is God,
would the Devil promise him that he will give him the kingdoms of the
world when all the all kingdoms of the world were created by and already
belong to God??
======================================================
God in the Bibles classifies bats as birds when anyone with an elementary
knowledge of biology knows that bats are flying MAMMALS!
Letiviticus11:13, 19
This God can't control his temper resulting in killing thousands of people.
Numbers 11:31-35; 25:1-9
He and Moses ordered the Israelites to kill all the male and Female
Medianites who had ever had sex but to spare the young women who were
virgins and keep them for themselves to enjoy. Numbers 31:14-1
Jeremiah:16:1: The word of the LORD came also unto me, saying,
2: Thou shall not take thee a wife, neither shall thou have sons or
daughters in this place.
3: For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the daughters
that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them,
and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land;
4: They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither
shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth:
and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcasses
shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
5: For thus saith the LORD, Enter not into the house of mourning, neither go
to lament nor bemoan them: for I have taken away my peace from this people,
saith the LORD, even loving kindness and mercies.
======================================================
According to the unerring Bible, the earth is the oldest object in the
Universe. (Genesis 1:1), snakes can talk (Genesis 3:1-5), and Man had
dominion over the dinosaurs (Genesis 1:26, 28)."
Really??? The Earth did not come into existence until 10 BILLION years after
the Universe. Man came into existence MILLIONS of years AFTER the extinction
of the Dinosaurs.
======================================================
God is satisfied with his works
[Gen 1:31]
God is dissatisfied with his works.
[Gen 6:6]
God dwells in chosen temples
[2 Chron 7:12,16]
God dwells not in temples
[Acts 7:48]
======================================================
Jesus' claimed last words on the cross, 'My God, my God, why hast thou
forsaken me?' Hardly seems like the words of a god that created and
controlled the whole world and who planned his entry and exit on earth.
More obvious nonsense!
======================================================
Additional Bible nonsense too voluminous to quote fully;
Mt.4:8: Gen. 1:6; Deut. 30.4; Job. 9:6,22:13, 26:11; PSA 75.3, 103.12;
1 Sam 2.8; Isa. 13.5, 40.21-22; Dan 4.10-11; Re. 7.1, 20.8; Psa 93:1, 96:10,
105.5Job. 22.14; Rev. 6.14; Acts 10:11; Rev. 6:13, 8:14; Mat. 2:9; Gen 1:16;
Lev.19.27, 11.7,10-12: Mat. 5:17-19; Luke 16:17; Lev. 19.19; Luke 16:1-9;
Amos 3:6; Isa. 45:7; Lev, 18.22, 20.13; Deut. 13.6; Judges 14.20; 1 Sam
16:21-23, 18.1-3; Sam 1:26, 13:3, 15:37, 16:16-17: Mat. 2:13-15; Luke 2:1-7,
21; Gen. 11.6, 18:21, 27:33; Exod. 9:14, 12:12; Num 33.4; Deut. 3.23; Exod.
18:11; Eccl. 9.5-6, 9:10; Job 7.9-10, 13:28, 14:1-2, 14:1-2, 10-12, 21; Prov
2:18-19; Eccl. 10:17, 17:27, 28, 30, 19.3, 44:9; wisdom 2:1-5
This is just a sampling of ridiculous Bible tales. The Bibles are obviously
a mixture of fiction, fables, folklore and pure nonsense.
And these Bibles were dictated by God??? Then this God must be a demented
idiot.
begin 666 clip_image001.gif
M1TE&.#EA- (%`'<`,2'^&E-O9G1W87)E.B!-:6-R;W-O9G0@3V9F:6-E`"'Y
M! $`````+ $``0`R`@,`@0```(" @-34U $"`P(\C(^IR^T/HYRTVHNSWKS[
M#X;B2):!@*;JRK;N"\?R3-?VC>?ZSO?^#PP*A\2B\8A,*I?,IO,)C4JGU&@!
"`#L`
`
end
.

User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	13 Dec 2007 10:15:19 AM

"Doug" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
news:28qdnaNcouNop_zanZ2dnUVZ_rvinZ2d@sentex.net...

When Jesus warned his disciples to "beware of the leaven of the
Pharisees",
they misunderstood.

Yeah?
So did you.
Jesus was commenting on rationalism versus faith.
When Jesus had fewer resources and more work to do, He had more of a
miracle.
When Jesus had more resources and less work to do, He had less of a miracle.
[snip]

Their
literal interpretations and rules put heavy burdens on people, but they
exempted themselves.

[snip]
Nonsense.
The subject was NOT literalism versus figurative.
It was rationalism versus faith.
Next time, read the specifics of the story instead of making up your own
story using Jesus as an red herring.
Ike
.

User: "Doug"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	13 Dec 2007 11:09:33 AM

On December 13, 2007 11:15 am, H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
<xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote:

"Doug" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
news:28qdnaNcouNop_zanZ2dnUVZ_rvinZ2d@sentex.net...

When Jesus warned his disciples to "beware of the leaven of the
Pharisees",
they misunderstood.

Yeah?

So did you.

Jesus was commenting on rationalism versus faith.

One thing you don't need to worry about, is being labelled "rational".
I have difficulty making sense of your views. :-)
Doug
.

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	13 Dec 2007 12:42:26 PM

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:09:33 -0500, Doug <tcc@sentex.net>
said the following:

On December 13, 2007 11:15 am, H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
<xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote:

"Doug" <tcc@sentex.net> wrote in message
news:28qdnaNcouNop_zanZ2dnUVZ_rvinZ2d@sentex.net...

When Jesus warned his disciples to "beware of the leaven of the
Pharisees",
they misunderstood.

Yeah?

So did you.

Jesus was commenting on rationalism versus faith.

One thing you don't need to worry about, is being labelled "rational".

I have difficulty making sense of your views. :-)

Doug

Yes Doug, after all, you're the rational one!
I mean how else would we have known that
when Jesus said "this generation", that He
REALLY MEANT (because you zipped back
in time and read His mind) all generations?!
I mean, it doesn't matter that this would mean
that He basically said nothing, as long as YOU
get to claim that it's all about YOU! And that
is perfectly rational, right?! Much more rational
than assuming that when Jesus said that, that
He actually meant that generation, as He did
every other time He said it!
<chuckle>
--
God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called.
.

User: "Sensi"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	13 Dec 2007 11:42:28 AM

Doug wrote:

Sensi:
Since Jesus is a miracle worker in the sense that he can
change one way of thinking into another I'm going to say the
bread is symbolic of *knowledge* and is given as a means to
feed a malnourished crowd who is hungry for the spirit of
Truth and knowledge that would sustain their mind, heart and
soul. Knowing that is what the body of Christ is noted for
as he gives and feeds them heart, mind and soul they would
obviously have *understood* and therefore after they ate the
Miracle spiritual food of Jesus they would also have their
baskets filled that would have in a heavenly way have been
*taken upwards.*

He stated that he was not referring to bread, when he said "beware of the
leaven of the Pharisees". Then they realized he was referring to their
doctrine.

Sensi:
Oh, puffed up doctrine. Bad stuff, causes much harm to the
mind, heart and soul.

So why was the doctrine of the Pharisees like leaven? There is no reference
to the particular doctrine Jesus was referring to. But the story in
Matthew's account indicates what he meant. There was something about their
teachings that was like leaven in a lump of bread. It permeated all their
beliefs, and their lifestyle. It caused them to misunderstand the holy
scriptures, and the message of Jesus.

Sensi:
Jesus is still a miracle worker in that *respect.*

What was this "leaven"? The comment by Jesus, that he was not referring to
bread, provides a clue. It was the same mistake that the disciples of Jesus
had made! They took his words too literally, when they thought he was
referring to bread. They misunderstood his words on several occasions,
besides this one. Leaven was symbolic of a literal approach. That applies
to their view of the scriptures, and to the words of Jesus. Their literal
reading of the law caused the Pharisees to miss its spiritual meaning.
Literalism permeated the teachings of the Pharisees and the Sadducees. The
Pharisees followed the letter of the law, but failed to comprehend God's
love. Jesus said they omit the weightier matters of the law, judgement,
mercy, and faith, Matt 23:23. They missed the true meaning of the
scriptures, just as the disciples had failed to understand what Jesus
meant, when he mentioned leaven.

Sensi:
Heavy weightier matters tend to press the heart, mind and
soul into a solid form where not even Jesus could have
taught them about the spirit of love, forgiveness with His
honorable approach of sincerity. They were more caught up
with paper rules from the scribes who they had placed their
faith in as being more knowledgeable than Jesus.

The Pharisees received many criticisms from Jesus in Matthew 23. Their
literal interpretations and rules put heavy burdens on people, but they
exempted themselves. They made a show of their own importance, and their
own righteousness. They hindered those who were entering the kingdom of
God. They appeared very righteous and religious outwardly, but inside, they
were full of iniquity. So, Jesus warned against the literal, but
superficial view, the "leaven" of the Pharisees!

Sensi:
In agreement there!

Doug

User: "Doug"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	14 Dec 2007 05:45:41 AM

On December 13, 2007 12:42 pm, Sensi <sensi-4N-sight@yayhoo.com> wrote:

Doug wrote:

I agree, bread is a symbol of knowledge. Jesus used wheat as a symbol of his
word in the parable of the sower, and bread is made from wheat. And the
manna that the Israelites ate in the wilderness for 40 years was called
bread [Exodus 16:15, 32]. Its purpose was to teach them "that man doth not
live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of
the LORD doth man live." [Deuteronomy 8:3]
While bread is the symbol of spiritual knowledge, "leaven" is an ingredient
that has to be added during its preparation. Certain kinds of "leaven"
should be avoided.
In the Jewish annual holy following the Passover, all leaven had to be
removed from their houses for 7 days.
Exodus 12:15
Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put
away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from
the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from
Israel.

He stated that he was not referring to bread, when he said "beware of the
leaven of the Pharisees". Then they realized he was referring to their
doctrine.

Sensi:
Oh, puffed up doctrine. Bad stuff, causes much harm to the
mind, heart and soul.

Paul referred to leaven as an evil ingredient, that we need to get rid of.
He mentioned "old leaven", and "the leaven of malice and wickedness". He
spoke of the unleavened bread of "sincerity and truth".
1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the
leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity
and truth.

So why was the doctrine of the Pharisees like leaven? There is no
reference to the particular doctrine Jesus was referring to. But the
story in Matthew's account indicates what he meant. There was something
about their teachings that was like leaven in a lump of bread. It
permeated all their beliefs, and their lifestyle. It caused them to
misunderstand the holy scriptures, and the message of Jesus.

Sensi:
Jesus is still a miracle worker in that *respect.*

It is amazing to discover the hidden meaning in his words when the symbols
are understood.

What was this "leaven"? The comment by Jesus, that he was not referring
to bread, provides a clue. It was the same mistake that the disciples of
Jesus had made! They took his words too literally, when they thought he
was referring to bread. They misunderstood his words on several
occasions, besides this one. Leaven was symbolic of a literal approach.
That applies to their view of the scriptures, and to the words of Jesus.
Their literal reading of the law caused the Pharisees to miss its
spiritual meaning. Literalism permeated the teachings of the Pharisees
and the Sadducees. The Pharisees followed the letter of the law, but
failed to comprehend God's love. Jesus said they omit the weightier
matters of the law, judgement, mercy, and faith, Matt 23:23. They missed
the true meaning of the scriptures, just as the disciples had failed to
understand what Jesus meant, when he mentioned leaven.

The Pharisees received many criticisms from Jesus in Matthew 23. Their
literal interpretations and rules put heavy burdens on people, but they
exempted themselves. They made a show of their own importance, and their
own righteousness. They hindered those who were entering the kingdom of
God. They appeared very righteous and religious outwardly, but inside,
they were full of iniquity. So, Jesus warned against the literal, but
superficial view, the "leaven" of the Pharisees!

Sensi:
In agreement there!

Doug
.

User: "Sensi"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	14 Dec 2007 10:34:38 PM

Doug wrote:

On December 13, 2007 12:42 pm, Sensi <sensi-4N-sight@yayhoo.com> wrote:

Doug wrote:

I agree, bread is a symbol of knowledge. Jesus used wheat as a symbol of his
word in the parable of the sower, and bread is made from wheat. And the
manna that the Israelites ate in the wilderness for 40 years was called
bread [Exodus 16:15, 32]. Its purpose was to teach them "that man doth not
live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of
the LORD doth man live." [Deuteronomy 8:3]

While bread is the symbol of spiritual knowledge, "leaven" is an ingredient
that has to be added during its preparation. Certain kinds of "leaven"
should be avoided.

In the Jewish annual holy following the Passover, all leaven had to be
removed from their houses for 7 days.

Sensi:
That's why I think "House" is symbolic of the mind and
heart. Which would make sense as to why Jesus was always
going into his house....He was turning *inward* away from
the crowd, entering into his closet so to speak making sure
no pharisee leaven was present within him.
I'm sure he kept a clean house. ;-)

Exodus 12:15
Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put
away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from
the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from
Israel.

He stated that he was not referring to bread, when he said "beware of the
leaven of the Pharisees". Then they realized he was referring to their
doctrine.

Sensi:
Oh, puffed up doctrine. Bad stuff, causes much harm to the
mind, heart and soul.

Paul referred to leaven as an evil ingredient, that we need to get rid of.
He mentioned "old leaven", and "the leaven of malice and wickedness". He
spoke of the unleavened bread of "sincerity and truth".

1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the
leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity
and truth.

Sensi:
Makes sense to me.

So why was the doctrine of the Pharisees like leaven? There is no
reference to the particular doctrine Jesus was referring to. But the
story in Matthew's account indicates what he meant. There was something
about their teachings that was like leaven in a lump of bread. It
permeated all their beliefs, and their lifestyle. It caused them to
misunderstand the holy scriptures, and the message of Jesus.

Sensi:

Jesus is still a miracle worker in that *respect.*

It is amazing to discover the hidden meaning in his words when the symbols
are understood.

Sensi:
It truly is. And then to discover the same hidden meanings
of symbols are hidden in our dreams is an ominous discovery.

What was this "leaven"? The comment by Jesus, that he was not referring
to bread, provides a clue. It was the same mistake that the disciples of
Jesus had made! They took his words too literally, when they thought he
was referring to bread. They misunderstood his words on several
occasions, besides this one. Leaven was symbolic of a literal approach.
That applies to their view of the scriptures, and to the words of Jesus.
Their literal reading of the law caused the Pharisees to miss its
spiritual meaning. Literalism permeated the teachings of the Pharisees
and the Sadducees. The Pharisees followed the letter of the law, but
failed to comprehend God's love. Jesus said they omit the weightier
matters of the law, judgement, mercy, and faith, Matt 23:23. They missed
the true meaning of the scriptures, just as the disciples had failed to
understand what Jesus meant, when he mentioned leaven.

The Pharisees received many criticisms from Jesus in Matthew 23. Their
literal interpretations and rules put heavy burdens on people, but they
exempted themselves. They made a show of their own importance, and their
own righteousness. They hindered those who were entering the kingdom of
God. They appeared very righteous and religious outwardly, but inside,
they were full of iniquity. So, Jesus warned against the literal, but
superficial view, the "leaven" of the Pharisees!

Sensi:
In agreement there!

Doug

User: " ::: good news :::"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees /// hypocrisy	14 Dec 2007 08:37:38 AM

In
news:bb170612-c27f-4d6f-8460-eeac91b18b7f@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
roymock@gmail.com <roymock@gmail.com> typed:

On Dec 14, 4:13 am, Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
Good point, Donna.

Donna has NO good points, because Donna is up to making converts for her
Arian sect.
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
.

User: " ::: good news :::"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees /// hypocrisy	14 Dec 2007 09:01:02 AM

In news:5sfipiF194pikU1@mid.individual.net,
::: good news ::: <veralein@lycos.com> typed:

In
news:bb170612-c27f-4d6f-8460-eeac91b18b7f@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
roymock@gmail.com <roymock@gmail.com> typed:

On Dec 14, 4:13 am, Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
Good point, Donna.

Donna has NO good points, because Donna is up to making converts for
her Arian sect.

http://www.liontracks.org/roarlion/christns.htm
http://76.162.173.93/guest/ar-mp3/ar-how-to-spot-a-counterfeit.mp3
If anyone teaches a different doctrine, and doesn't consent to sound
words, the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is
according to godliness, he is conceited, knowing nothing, but obsessed
with arguments, disputes, and word battles, from which come envy,
strife, reviling, evil suspicions, constant friction of people of
corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is
a means of gain. Withdraw yourself from such. (1 Timothy 6:3-5 WEB)
.

User: " ::: good news :::"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees /// hypocrisy	15 Dec 2007 09:44:02 AM

In
news:3c0d7740-658f-4a18-a544-7aeef287f661@p1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com,
roymock@gmail.com <roymock@gmail.com> typed:

On Dec 15, 2:01 am, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote:

Innews:5sfipiF194pikU1@mid.individual.net,
::: good news ::: <veral...@lycos.com> typed:

In
news:bb170612-c27f-4d6f-8460-eeac91b18b7f@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
roym...@gmail.com <roym...@gmail.com> typed:

On Dec 14, 4:13 am, Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
Good point, Donna.

Donna has NO good points, because Donna is up to making converts for
her Arian sect.

http://www.liontracks.org/roarlion/christns.htm

http://76.162.173.93/guest/ar-mp3/ar-how-to-spot-a-counterfeit.mp3

I appreciate the alert regards to that world view. But that should
not deter us from using them to our advantage. E.g. Paul at Mars Hill
used an inscription as leverage to explain the gospel (Act 17:22ff).

If anyone teaches a different doctrine, and doesn't consent to sound
words, the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which
is according to godliness, he is conceited, knowing nothing, but
obsessed with arguments, disputes, and word battles, from which come
envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, constant friction of people
of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that
godliness is a means of gain. Withdraw yourself from such. (1
Timothy 6:3-5 WEB)

I'm not sure how applicable that passage is on this occassion.

The "gain" in view here (1Tim 6:3-10), is not prostelyzing, but
material gain (vv. 7-9) predicated by "the love of money" (v.10). The
NIV has "godliness is a means to financial gain" (v.5), which not
literal but makes sense with the verses that follow.

Yes, material gain - exactly as the verses teach us. I believe in them.
Why else should someone come to a Christian newsgroup, teach a false
doctrine and try to make converts for that? Donna is no Christian and
thus be led by someone else if not by God. Maybe she is misdirected by
her husband. But we cannot see why he is doing this, and the Scriptures
say why.
She - like any other sectarian - is no lover of people, no lover of the
truth, no lover of God, because she does not listen what God says. This
is because she does not have a connection to him.
So if she does not post here for others, not for the truth, not for
God - what else for?

Cheers.

--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
.

User: " ::: good news :::"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees /// hypocrisy	14 Dec 2007 09:04:33 AM

In news:5sfk5fF18h0cgU1@mid.individual.net,
::: good news ::: <veralein@lycos.com> typed:

In news:5sfipiF194pikU1@mid.individual.net,

good news ::: <veralein@lycos.com> typed:

In
news:bb170612-c27f-4d6f-8460-eeac91b18b7f@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
roymock@gmail.com <roymock@gmail.com> typed:

On Dec 14, 4:13 am, Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
Good point, Donna.

Donna has NO good points, because Donna is up to making converts for
her Arian sect.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Arianism.html

http://www.liontracks.org/roarlion/christns.htm

http://76.162.173.93/guest/ar-mp3/ar-how-to-spot-a-counterfeit.mp3

If anyone teaches a different doctrine, and doesn't consent to sound
words, the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which
is according to godliness, he is conceited, knowing nothing, but
obsessed with arguments, disputes, and word battles, from which come
envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, constant friction of people
of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that
godliness is a means of gain. Withdraw yourself from such. (1 Timothy
6:3-5 WEB)

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	13 Dec 2007 08:33:46 AM

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:00:21 -0500, Doug <tcc@sentex.net>
said the following:

Actually, there is quite a bit that refers to it
in Scripture and if you study the Bible properly,
part of that is immersing yourself in those people,
at that time and before and that would also involve
studying the peoples that they dealt with, especially
the Romans, which yes, had an influence on this.
This is why I say (no offense) that Futurists look at
Scripture as if it were written to skip the people who
wrote it and whom it was written to, to instead look
at it with their "21st century Gentile" glasses on.
I am not trying to insult you Doug, really, but answer
me this...
How much time have you personally spent researching
those peoples at that time, to understand how they
wrote, spoke and thought and lived and I mean right
down to the details of every day life, so much so,
that you could zip back in time and aside from the
need to learn the language natively, fit right in?
If you have not done that, then with all due respect
(and I say this to everybody), you cannot possibly
understand properly the word of God.
It was not written yesterday and it was not written
by Gentiles in America!
Again, no disrespect intended and I believe
that your message came from your heart
and out of love and I am not disputing
everything you said.
--
When Christianity becomes religion it leaves the heart hungry.
.

User: "Doug"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	13 Dec 2007 09:55:07 AM

On December 13, 2007 09:33 am, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:00:21 -0500, Doug <tcc@sentex.net>
said the following:

Preterism permeates all you say like leaven permeates through a loaf of
bread! It must be an example of those things Jesus warned against, as it is
based upon an absurdly limited, superficial, and literal perspective on the
statement of Jesus, that all the events he foretold would occur in "this
generation". Jesus referred to himself, as he represents that generation,
and he remains alive to this day, and is the *only* one in that generation
who has been made immortal.
1 Timothy 6:15-17
....Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate,
the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach
unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power
everlasting.
Doug
.

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	13 Dec 2007 12:34:26 PM

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:55:07 -0500, Doug <tcc@sentex.net>
said the following:

On December 13, 2007 09:33 am, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:00:21 -0500, Doug <tcc@sentex.net>
said the following:

Preterism permeates all you say like leaven permeates
through a loaf of bread!

So I'll take that as you have spent ZERO time investigating
and just don't give a damn what the facts are, because as
you said, your doctrine "permeates all you say, like leaven
permeates through a loaf of bread".
--
It's hard to stumble when you're down on your knees.
.

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	13 Dec 2007 12:39:58 PM

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:55:07 -0500, Doug <tcc@sentex.net>
said the following:

On December 13, 2007 09:33 am, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:00:21 -0500, Doug <tcc@sentex.net>
said the following:

Preterism permeates all you say like leaven permeates through a loaf of
bread! It must be an example of those things Jesus warned against, as it is
based upon an absurdly limited, superficial, and literal perspective on the
statement of Jesus, that all the events he foretold would occur in "this
generation". Jesus referred to himself, as he represents that generation,
and he remains alive to this day, and is the *only* one in that generation
who has been made immortal.

1 Timothy 6:15-17
...Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate,
the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach
unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power
everlasting.

Doug

Your pride is your master. But hey, nothing from then
matters, because you have your doctrine that says that
it's all about you and your time! And of course Jesus
came in the 1st century, because His time machine
broke. I mean after all, He really meant to speak to
you, in the 21st century, right? So He came and just
pretended to talk to the people in front of Him, because
He was really ignoring them, just to talk to you today!
And yes, sure, "this generation" means all of
the generations since He walked the Earth!
But wait... lemme guess... somehow, that means
that it will all culminate in "this generation" today!
But gee, that can't be, because as you said, that phrase,
"this generation" can't possibly mean a single generation,
so I'm sure that you have never said an "Amen!", when
a preacher said, "We're the generation that is in the
last days!", right?
And of course, the last days are all days since Jesus right?
I mean, they'd have to be, because to say that we today
are in the last days and they weren't, would be hypocritical
to your "this generation" view! <chuckle>
Here's the bottom line... You keep whining and CLAIMING
that "this generation" means "all generations since Jesus",
but never, NOT ONCE, have you pointed to a verse that
actually says what you claim!
But hey Doug, who gives a damn if the Bible actually says it
because YOU, DOUG said it and that's ALL we mere mortals
need to know, is that DOUG said it! Bawahahaha!!!
--
Who's more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?
- Obi Wan Kenobe
.

User: "Doug"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	14 Dec 2007 09:58:06 AM

On December 13, 2007 01:39 pm, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:55:07 -0500, Doug <tcc@sentex.net>
said the following:

On December 13, 2007 09:33 am, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:00:21 -0500, Doug <tcc@sentex.net>
said the following:

Preterism permeates all you say like leaven permeates through a loaf of
bread! It must be an example of those things Jesus warned against, as it
is based upon an absurdly limited, superficial, and literal perspective on
the statement of Jesus, that all the events he foretold would occur in
"this generation". Jesus referred to himself, as he represents that
generation, and he remains alive to this day, and is the *only* one in
that generation who has been made immortal.

1 Timothy 6:15-17
...Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only
Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach
unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power
everlasting.

Doug

Your pride is your master. But hey, nothing from then
matters, because you have your doctrine that says that
it's all about you and your time! And of course Jesus
came in the 1st century, because His time machine
broke. I mean after all, He really meant to speak to
you, in the 21st century, right? So He came and just
pretended to talk to the people in front of Him, because
He was really ignoring them, just to talk to you today!

And yes, sure, "this generation" means all of
the generations since He walked the Earth!

But wait... lemme guess... somehow, that means
that it will all culminate in "this generation" today!

But gee, that can't be, because as you said, that phrase,
"this generation" can't possibly mean a single generation,
so I'm sure that you have never said an "Amen!", when
a preacher said, "We're the generation that is in the
last days!", right?

And of course, the last days are all days since Jesus right?
I mean, they'd have to be, because to say that we today
are in the last days and they weren't, would be hypocritical
to your "this generation" view! <chuckle>

Here's the bottom line... You keep whining and CLAIMING
that "this generation" means "all generations since Jesus",
but never, NOT ONCE, have you pointed to a verse that
actually says what you claim!

It is so easy to refute Preterism, it only takes one sentence! Jesus remains
part of the generation which he referred to as "this generation", and since
he was raised from the grave, that generation has not passed away. Of
course, to one who thinks that everyone who lived in the first century
remains alive, either in heaven or hell, that won't make sense! But
scripture says Jesus is the *only* one who has immortality. The saints of
every age will be made alive at his coming. The doctrine that the
resurrection is past already is clearly refuted in the scriptures:
2 Timothy 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is
Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the
resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this
seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth
the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Doug
.

User: "Pastor Dave"
Title: Re: The leaven of the Pharisees	14 Dec 2007 09:52:34 PM

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:58:06 -0500, Doug <tcc@sentex.net>
said the following:

Your pride is your master. But hey, nothing from then
matters, because you have your doctrine that says that
it's all about you and your time! And of course Jesus
came in the 1st century, because His time machine
broke. I mean after all, He really meant to speak to
you, in the 21st century, right? So He came and just
pretended to talk to the people in front of Him, because
He was really ignoring them, just to talk to you today!

And yes, sure, "this generation" means all of
the generations since He walked the Earth!

But wait... lemme guess... somehow, that means
that it will all culminate in "this generation" today!

But gee, that can't be, because as you said, that phrase,
"this generation" can't possibly mean a single generation,
so I'm sure that you have never said an "Amen!", when
a preacher said, "We're the generation that is in the
last days!", right?

And of course, the last days are all days since Jesus right?
I mean, they'd have to be, because to say that we today
are in the last days and they weren't, would be hypocritical
to your "this generation" view! <chuckle>

Here's the bottom line... You keep whining and CLAIMING
that "this generation" means "all generations since Jesus",
but never, NOT ONCE, have you pointed to a verse that
actually says what you claim!

It is so easy to refute Preterism

And yet, you never do it!

it only takes one sentence! Jesus remains part of the
generation which he referred to as "this generation"

You are a seriously stupid man if you think that is
a refutation! That is a claim, not proof!
"The Bible says that elephants have three eyes."
Now according to you, it's true, because a claim
is all that's needed to prove that something is
in the Bible!
Fact: While you keep CLAIMING that "all generations
are the "this generation" that Jesus spoke of,
all you do is continue whining and CLAIMING
that "this generation" means "all generations
since Jesus". But never, NOT ONCE, have
you pointed to a verse that actually says what
you claim!
Now either you can, or you can't! If you can, then do it!
If you can't, then stop insulting my intelligence!
And btw, when you tell people how it's all about your
generation and claim that "this is the worse generation
ever", do you mean "all generations since Jesus"?
No, of course not! And yet, you expect me to buy into
your crap?!
Now put up or shut up!
<snip verses>
Trying to insult me with passages, is proof of
your evil intent! It's your way of trying to
automatically discredit me, to avoid dealing
with the fact that you have ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING backing you up, you liar!
--
The Last Days were in the first century:
"And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom
of heaven is AT HAND." - Matthew 3:2
.