"Pastor Joey Faust" <faust@kingdombaptist.org> wrote in message
news:euRpd.34250$bP2.23721@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...

If people are born "gay," with no ability to refrain from acting upon
sexual desires for the same sex, this would mean that the Bible is not
inspired by God!

"Thou shalt not worship graven images" - God

"Pastor Joey Faust" <faust@kingdombaptist.org> wrote in message
news:euRpd.34250$bP2.23721@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...

If people are born "gay," with no ability to refrain from acting upon
sexual desires for the same sex, this would mean that the Bible is not
inspired by God!

In the rules of logic we have here the fallacy of "does not connect" as in
comparing things which do not actually lean on, or depend on each other to
be true, as if one fails without the other. The Bible CAN be "inspired by
God"(even by your mistaken idea that *inspired* somehow means "dictated")*
AND people CAN be born homosexuals, neither depends on the other, in order
to be true

*Picaso's "The Woman" was *inspired* by a real woman, but unlike the piece
of art inspired by her, she didn't have both her eyes on the left side of
her nose. Fundamentalists wanting to take the scriptures somehow as God's
(dictated) Word, badly misinterpret 2 Tim.3:16 to defend a heretical
doctrine, that a book written by man is God's dictated word, because this
is the ONE verse which comes closest to saying what they want to be true.

Under the Old Testament,

Fulfilled by Christ, and therefore snipped.

<snip>

Yet, we know that the Bible IS inspired by God. If God calls a
particular action a sin, and punishes people for that action, it
therefore follows that such people are culpable. And any argument which
tries to justify homosexuality by saying that "it is in the genes,"
would also justify bestiality, pedophilia, and many other abominations!

Are we not born with a sinful nature ? Even IF the Bible in the end stated
homosexuality a sin (later this will be addressed)... being born that way,
isn't really a "justification" of any sort.

As society continues to degenerate (many call it "progress"!), the same
argument will increasingly be made for bestiality and pedophilia: "They
can't help themselves. They were born this way." This argument is
already being used.

So we hear claimed / asserted

We can begin to see the sun setting on the horizon:
"American Psychiatric Association Now Wants To Normalize Pedophilia San
Francis - Confirming LifeSite's previous warning about serious on-going
efforts to legitimize adult-child sex, the American Psychiatric
Association (APA) recently sponsored a symposium in which participants
discussed the removal of pedophilia from the psychiatric manual of
mental disorders. Cybercast news Service reports today that
Psychiatrists at the May 19 conference in San Francisco proposed
removing several long-recognized categories of mental illness -
including pedophilia, exhibitionism, fetishism, transvestism, voyeurism
and sadomasochism - from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders (DSM). 'Normalizing' pedophilia would have enormous
implications, especially since civil laws closely follow the scientific
community on social-moral matters, said Linda Ames Nicolosi, NARTH
publications director. 'If pedophilia is deemed normal by psychiatrists,
then how can it remain illegal?' Nicolosi asked. 'It will be a tough
fight to prove in the courts that it should still be against the law.'
Another logical question is how this development would also affect the
battle against currently growing volumes of child porn?" (June 10, 2003,
LifeSiteNews.com)

Idiot argument, everything is "normal" and fairly common place, such
doesn't make everything good / just and something that "should be legal"
(We could open a can of worms here on what your* prized OT says about THIS
topic)

*Not mine, as I see believe Jesus fulfilled *all* OT Laws

When is enough, ENOUGH? When will more Christians awake and say it is
past time to take a stand. The "I was born this way" argument is morally
and rationally flawed!....

Actually, it isn't flawed, I, as many others, have, as concerning their
homosexual siblings, watched my homosexual brother grow up, we are three
years apart in age, me being the older...He was always "odd" from the very
start...

Such is a real education
which leaves no doubt that
they are *born* that way.
Again, see above,
such is no defense, as many make it out to be, rather it is just a fact,
I was born pure hetrosexual, never even went through the so call "no girls
allowed" faze so many (possibly born bi-sexual) boys go through

....It would justify ANY crime, sin or action.

In fact, if we will use such arguments (blaming everything on DNA), then
it follows that all the people that consider bestiality, pedophilia, and
sodomy (i.e. homosexuality) DISGUSTING should not be ridiculed or
scorned! There is much more evidence that people are NATURALLY BORN with
consciences that HATE the above three sins, than there is evidence that
many are born "gay"! Notice the following words from the Holy Bible:

See above, this premise is flawed, "born that way" justifies nothing, we
*all* come short of the glory of God, because we are "born that way"

Romans 1:26

Sigh,
here we go again,
I *truly* wish people would
*actually <<<<READ>>>*
this text before throwing it up as if it is an "anti-gay text"

Let's look at the true *context* which starts with verse 21 (please read
c a r e f u l l y verses 21-32, for the full context)
Note: the *SIN* being *judged* here is ^^^NOT^^^ homosexuality (which is
here a *punishment*)...
the *SIN* being attacked ? corrupting God by making Him like man, birds,
fourfooted beasts, and creeping things

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for
even their women did change

Important word *change*, to exchange one thing for another.
So, we *must* state with one thing, which was *exchanged* for another (and
this is where "born that way" comes into play)

the NATURAL use into that which is AGAINST NATURE:

So for one born homosexual, (in order to 'sin' here, one EXCHANGES
something for another), what is natural ?

27 And likewise also the men, leaving

Another very important word *leaving*, as in *leaving* one thing for
<<<another>>>
So, again we *must* start with what was,,, so to 'sin' the homosexual
*leaves* what (note they were *never* hetrosexual, so they CAN'T *leave*
where they NEVER WERE

the NATURAL use of the woman,

So what is the homosexual's "NATURAL use of the woman" ???

burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which
is UNSEEMLY, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error
which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God
gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not
convenient;

Going back to the ACTUAL SIN of Romans 1:21-32, that of making the
incorruptible God into corruptible things... these verses are talking
about formally HETROSEXUALS were God *turned over* to homosexuality.

In these verses homosexuality is NOT the sin, but the PUNISHMENT

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION,
implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things
are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them
that do them.

Why skip verses 29-30 ? Because they don't describe *all* homosexuals ? Of
course not, these verses 26-32 describe those sinners who God had punished
by turning them into homosexuals
They do NOT describe homosexuals, they describe the ones who were punished
for misrepresenting God.

<snipped redundancy>

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new
creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Obedient Christians are moved by a great, compelling affection to warn
homosexuals about God's judgment,

And the overweight, the aged, the youth,,,,,

and protect the young minds of
children from their sodomite propaganda
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the
earth.
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Proverbs 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as
keep the law contend with them.
Visit my website
www.kingdombaptist.org

"Pastor Joey Faust" <faust@kingdombaptist.org> wrote in message

Under the Old Testament,

Fulfilled by Christ, and therefore snipped.

<snip>

Yet, we know that the Bible IS inspired by God. If God calls a
particular action a sin, and punishes people for that action, it
therefore follows that such people are culpable. And any argument which
tries to justify homosexuality by saying that "it is in the genes,"
would also justify bestiality, pedophilia, and many other abominations!

Are we not born with a sinful nature ? Even IF the Bible in the end stated
homosexuality a sin (later this will be addressed)... being born that way,
isn't really a "justification" of any sort.

As society continues to degenerate (many call it "progress"!), the same
argument will increasingly be made for bestiality and pedophilia: "They
can't help themselves. They were born this way." This argument is
already being used.

So we hear claimed / asserted

We can begin to see the sun setting on the horizon:
"American Psychiatric Association Now Wants To Normalize Pedophilia San
Francis - Confirming LifeSite's previous warning about serious on-going
efforts to legitimize adult-child sex, the American Psychiatric
Association (APA) recently sponsored a symposium in which participants
discussed the removal of pedophilia from the psychiatric manual of
mental disorders. Cybercast news Service reports today that
Psychiatrists at the May 19 conference in San Francisco proposed
removing several long-recognized categories of mental illness -
including pedophilia, exhibitionism, fetishism, transvestism, voyeurism
and sadomasochism - from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders (DSM). 'Normalizing' pedophilia would have enormous
implications, especially since civil laws closely follow the scientific
community on social-moral matters, said Linda Ames Nicolosi, NARTH
publications director. 'If pedophilia is deemed normal by psychiatrists,
then how can it remain illegal?' Nicolosi asked. 'It will be a tough
fight to prove in the courts that it should still be against the law.'
Another logical question is how this development would also affect the
battle against currently growing volumes of child porn?" (June 10, 2003,
LifeSiteNews.com)

Idiot argument, everything is "normal" and fairly common place, such
doesn't make everything good / just and something that "should be legal"
(We could open a can of worms here on what your* prized OT says about THIS
topic)

*Not mine, as I see believe Jesus fulfilled *all* OT Laws

When is enough, ENOUGH? When will more Christians awake and say it is
past time to take a stand. The "I was born this way" argument is morally
and rationally flawed!....

Actually, it isn't flawed, I, as many others, have, as concerning their
homosexual siblings, watched my homosexual brother grow up, we are three
years apart in age, me being the older...He was always "odd" from the very
start...

Such is a real education
which leaves no doubt that
they are *born* that way.
Again, see above,
such is no defense, as many make it out to be, rather it is just a fact,
I was born pure hetrosexual, never even went through the so call "no girls
allowed" faze so many (possibly born bi-sexual) boys go through

....It would justify ANY crime, sin or action.

In fact, if we will use such arguments (blaming everything on DNA), then
it follows that all the people that consider bestiality, pedophilia, and
sodomy (i.e. homosexuality) DISGUSTING should not be ridiculed or
scorned! There is much more evidence that people are NATURALLY BORN with
consciences that HATE the above three sins, than there is evidence that
many are born "gay"! Notice the following words from the Holy Bible:

See above, this premise is flawed, "born that way" justifies nothing, we
*all* come short of the glory of God, because we are "born that way"

Romans 1:26

Sigh,
here we go again,
I *truly* wish people would
*actually <<<<READ>>>*
this text before throwing it up as if it is an "anti-gay text"

Let's look at the true *context* which starts with verse 21 (please read
c a r e f u l l y verses 21-32, for the full context)
Note: the *SIN* being *judged* here is ^^^NOT^^^ homosexuality (which is
here a *punishment*)...
the *SIN* being attacked ? corrupting God by making Him like man, birds,
fourfooted beasts, and creeping things

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for
even their women did change

Important word *change*, to exchange one thing for another.
So, we *must* state with one thing, which was *exchanged* for another (and
this is where "born that way" comes into play)

the NATURAL use into that which is AGAINST NATURE:

So for one born homosexual, (in order to 'sin' here, one EXCHANGES
something for another), what is natural ?

27 And likewise also the men, leaving

Another very important word *leaving*, as in *leaving* one thing for
<<<another>>>
So, again we *must* start with what was,,, so to 'sin' the homosexual
*leaves* what (note they were *never* hetrosexual, so they CAN'T *leave*
where they NEVER WERE

the NATURAL use of the woman,

So what is the homosexual's "NATURAL use of the woman" ???

burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which
is UNSEEMLY, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error
which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God
gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not
convenient;

Going back to the ACTUAL SIN of Romans 1:21-32, that of making the
incorruptible God into corruptible things... these verses are talking
about formally HETROSEXUALS were God *turned over* to homosexuality.

In these verses homosexuality is NOT the sin, but the PUNISHMENT

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION,
implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things
are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them
that do them.

Why skip verses 29-30 ? Because they don't describe *all* homosexuals ? Of
course not, these verses 26-32 describe those sinners who God had punished
by turning them into homosexuals
They do NOT describe homosexuals, they describe the ones who were punished
for misrepresenting God.

<snipped redundancy>

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new
creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Obedient Christians are moved by a great, compelling affection to warn
homosexuals about God's judgment,

And the overweight, the aged, the youth,,,,,

and protect the young minds of
children from their sodomite propaganda
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the
earth.
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Proverbs 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as
keep the law contend with them.
Visit my website
www.kingdombaptist.org

"Pastor Joey Faust" <faust@kingdombaptist.org> wrote in message
news:euRpd.34250$bP2.23721@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...

If people are born "gay," with no ability to refrain from acting upon
sexual desires for the same sex, this would mean that the Bible is not
inspired by God!

In the rules of logic we have here the fallacy of "does not connect" as in
comparing things which do not actually lean on, or depend on each other to
be true, as if one fails without the other. The Bible CAN be "inspired by
God"(even by your mistaken idea that *inspired* somehow means "dictated")*
AND people CAN be born homosexuals, neither depends on the other, in order
to be true

*Picaso's "The Woman" was *inspired* by a real woman, but unlike the piece
of art inspired by her, she didn't have both her eyes on the left side of
her nose. Fundamentalists wanting to take the scriptures somehow as God's
(dictated) Word, badly misinterpret 2 Tim.3:16 to defend a heretical
doctrine, that a book written by man is God's dictated word, because this is
the ONE verse which comes closest to saying what they want to be true.

"Pastor Joey Faust" <faust@kingdombaptist.org> wrote in message
news:euRpd.34250$bP2.23721@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...

If people are born "gay," with no ability to refrain from acting upon
sexual desires for the same sex, this would mean that the Bible is not
inspired by God!

In the rules of logic we have here the fallacy of "does not connect" as in
comparing things which do not actually lean on, or depend on each other to
be true, as if one fails without the other. The Bible CAN be "inspired by
God"(even by your mistaken idea that *inspired* somehow means "dictated")*
AND people CAN be born homosexuals, neither depends on the other, in order
to be true

*Picaso's "The Woman" was *inspired* by a real woman, but unlike the piece
of art inspired by her, she didn't have both her eyes on the left side of
her nose. Fundamentalists wanting to take the scriptures somehow as God's
(dictated) Word, badly misinterpret 2 Tim.3:16 to defend a heretical
doctrine, that a book written by man is God's dictated word, because this
is the ONE verse which comes closest to saying what they want to be true.

Under the Old Testament,

Fulfilled by Christ, and therefore snipped.

<snip>

Yet, we know that the Bible IS inspired by God. If God calls a
particular action a sin, and punishes people for that action, it
therefore follows that such people are culpable. And any argument which
tries to justify homosexuality by saying that "it is in the genes,"
would also justify bestiality, pedophilia, and many other abominations!

Are we not born with a sinful nature ? Even IF the Bible in the end stated
homosexuality a sin (later this will be addressed)... being born that way,
isn't really a "justification" of any sort.

As society continues to degenerate (many call it "progress"!), the same
argument will increasingly be made for bestiality and pedophilia: "They
can't help themselves. They were born this way." This argument is
already being used.

So we hear claimed / asserted

We can begin to see the sun setting on the horizon:
"American Psychiatric Association Now Wants To Normalize Pedophilia San
Francis - Confirming LifeSite's previous warning about serious on-going
efforts to legitimize adult-child sex, the American Psychiatric
Association (APA) recently sponsored a symposium in which participants
discussed the removal of pedophilia from the psychiatric manual of
mental disorders. Cybercast news Service reports today that
Psychiatrists at the May 19 conference in San Francisco proposed
removing several long-recognized categories of mental illness -
including pedophilia, exhibitionism, fetishism, transvestism, voyeurism
and sadomasochism - from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders (DSM). 'Normalizing' pedophilia would have enormous
implications, especially since civil laws closely follow the scientific
community on social-moral matters, said Linda Ames Nicolosi, NARTH
publications director. 'If pedophilia is deemed normal by psychiatrists,
then how can it remain illegal?' Nicolosi asked. 'It will be a tough
fight to prove in the courts that it should still be against the law.'
Another logical question is how this development would also affect the
battle against currently growing volumes of child porn?" (June 10, 2003,
LifeSiteNews.com)

Idiot argument, everything is "normal" and fairly common place, such
doesn't make everything good / just and something that "should be legal"
(We could open a can of worms here on what your* prized OT says about THIS
topic)

*Not mine, as I see believe Jesus fulfilled *all* OT Laws

When is enough, ENOUGH? When will more Christians awake and say it is
past time to take a stand. The "I was born this way" argument is morally
and rationally flawed!....

Actually, it isn't flawed, I, as many others, have, as concerning their
homosexual siblings, watched my homosexual brother grow up, we are three
years apart in age, me being the older...He was always "odd" from the very
start...

Such is a real education
which leaves no doubt that
they are *born* that way.
Again, see above,
such is no defense, as many make it out to be, rather it is just a fact,
I was born pure hetrosexual, never even went through the so call "no girls
allowed" faze so many (possibly born bi-sexual) boys go through

....It would justify ANY crime, sin or action.

In fact, if we will use such arguments (blaming everything on DNA), then
it follows that all the people that consider bestiality, pedophilia, and
sodomy (i.e. homosexuality) DISGUSTING should not be ridiculed or
scorned! There is much more evidence that people are NATURALLY BORN with
consciences that HATE the above three sins, than there is evidence that
many are born "gay"! Notice the following words from the Holy Bible:

See above, this premise is flawed, "born that way" justifies nothing, we
*all* come short of the glory of God, because we are "born that way"

Romans 1:26

Sigh,
here we go again,
I *truly* wish people would
*actually <<<<READ>>>*
this text before throwing it up as if it is an "anti-gay text"

Let's look at the true *context* which starts with verse 21 (please read
c a r e f u l l y verses 21-32, for the full context)
Note: the *SIN* being *judged* here is ^^^NOT^^^ homosexuality (which is
here a *punishment*)...
the *SIN* being attacked ? corrupting God by making Him like man, birds,
fourfooted beasts, and creeping things

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for
even their women did change

Important word *change*, to exchange one thing for another.
So, we *must* state with one thing, which was *exchanged* for another (and
this is where "born that way" comes into play)

the NATURAL use into that which is AGAINST NATURE:

So for one born homosexual, (in order to 'sin' here, one EXCHANGES
something for another), what is natural ?

27 And likewise also the men, leaving

Another very important word *leaving*, as in *leaving* one thing for
<<<another>>>
So, again we *must* start with what was,,, so to 'sin' the homosexual
*leaves* what (note they were *never* hetrosexual, so they CAN'T *leave*
where they NEVER WERE

the NATURAL use of the woman,

So what is the homosexual's "NATURAL use of the woman" ???

burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which
is UNSEEMLY, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error
which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God
gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not
convenient;

Going back to the ACTUAL SIN of Romans 1:21-32, that of making the
incorruptible God into corruptible things... these verses are talking
about formally HETROSEXUALS were God *turned over* to homosexuality.

In these verses homosexuality is NOT the sin, but the PUNISHMENT

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION,
implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things
are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them
that do them.

Why skip verses 29-30 ? Because they don't describe *all* homosexuals ? Of
course not, these verses 26-32 describe those sinners who God had punished
by turning them into homosexuals
They do NOT describe homosexuals, they describe the ones who were punished
for misrepresenting God.

<snipped redundancy>

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new
creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Obedient Christians are moved by a great, compelling affection to warn
homosexuals about God's judgment,

And the overweight, the aged, the youth,,,,,

and protect the young minds of
children from their sodomite propaganda
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the
earth.
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Proverbs 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as
keep the law contend with them.
Visit my website
www.kingdombaptist.org

In our last episode,
<euRpd.34250$bP2.23721@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>,
the lovely and talented Pastor Joey Faust
broadcast on alt.politics.homosexuality:

If people are born "gay," with no ability to refrain from acting upon
sexual desires for the same sex, this would mean that the Bible is not
inspired by God!

And it isn't.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:18:50 +0000, Pastor Joey Faust
<faust@kingdombaptist.org> wrote in message
news:<euRpd.34250$bP2.23721@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>:

Yet, we know that the Bible IS inspired by God.

And just how do we know that?