| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Carl" |
| Date: |
27 Jun 2007 09:26:12 PM |
| Object: |
The New World Translation |
The following article is a transcription of part of a discussion between Dr.
Julius R. Mantey and Dr. Walter Martin concerning The New World Translation.
They raise some points that Christians need to know concerning this poor
Bible translation.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION
Dr. Julius R. Mantey was a first rate scholar who studied Greek for more
than 65 years. He was well known for "A Manual Grammar of the Greek New
Testament, which he co-authored with Dr. H.E. Dana. The following is a
discussion that took place between Dr. Martin and Dr. Mantey on the
Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation.
DR. MARTIN: In John 1:1, the New World Translation (NWT) says that "the Word
was a God," referring to Jesus Christ. How would you respond to that?
DR. MANTEY: The Jehovah's Witnesses (JWs) have forgotten entirely what the
order of the sentence indicates - that the "Logos" has the same substance,
nature, or essence as the Father. To indicate that Jesus was just "a god,"
the JWs would have to use a completely different construction in the Greek.
DR. MARTIN: You once had a little difference of opinion with the Watchtower
about this and wrote them a letter. What was their response to your letter?
DR. MANTEY: Well, as a backdrop, I was disturbed because they had misquoted
me in support of their translation. I called their attention to the fact
that the whole body of the New Testament was against their view. Throughout
the New Testament, Jesus is glorified and magnified - yet here they were
denigrating Him and making Him into a little god of a pagan concept.
DR. MARTIN: What was their response to what you said?
DR. MANTEY: They said I could have my opinion and they would retain theirs.
What I wrote didn't phase them a bit.
DR. MARTIN: I don't know whether you're aware of it, but there is not a
single Greek scholar in the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I did
everything I could to find out the names of the translating committee of the
NWT, and the Watchtower wouldn't tell me a thing. Finally, an ex-JW who knew
the committee members
personally told me who they were, and the men on that committee could not
read New Testament Greek; nor could they read Hebrew; nor did they have any
knowledge of systematic theology - except what they had learned from the
Watchtower. Only one of them had been to college, and he had dropped out
after a year. He briefly studied the biblical languages while there.
DR. MANTEY: He was born in Greece, wasn't he?
DR. MARTIN: Yes, he read modern Greek, and I met him when I visited the
Watchtower. I asked him to read John 1:1 in the Greek and then said, "How
would you translate it?" He said: "Well, 'the word was a god."' I said:
"What is the subject of the sentence?" He just looked at me. So I repeated,
"What is the subject of the sentence?" He didn't know. This was the only
person in the Watchtower to read Greek and he didn't know, the subject of
the sentence in John 1:1. And these were the people who wrote back to you
and said their opinion was as good as yours.
DR. MANTEY: That's right.
DR. MARTIN: Often we find JW publications quoting scholars. Do they quote
these people in context?
DR. MANTEY: No. They use this device to fool people into thinking that
scholars agree with the JWs. Out of all the Greek professors, grammarians,
and commentators they have quoted, only one (a Unitarian) agreed that "the
word was a god."
DR. MARTIN: You have been quoted as saying that the translators of the NWT
are diabolical deceivers."
DR. MANTEY: Yes. The translation is deceptive, and I believe it's a terrible
thing for a person to be deceived and go into eternity lost, forever lost
because somebody deliberately misled him by distorting the Scripture!
DR. MARTIN: What would you say to a JW who was looking for the truth?
DR. MANTEY: I would advise him to get a translation other than the NWT,
because ninety-nine percent of the scholars of the world who know Greek and
who have helped translate the Bible are in disagreement with the JWs. People
who are looking for the truth ought to know what the majority of the
scholars really believe. They should not allow themselves to be misled by
the JWs and end up in hell.
-=(END)=-
These words were excerpted from the tape, "Martin and Mantey on The New
World Translation" (catalogue number C-118). Reproduced by written
permission.
.
|
|
| User: "Sarah Kanary" |
|
| Title: Re: The New World Translation |
28 Jun 2007 10:58:17 AM |
|
|
On Jun 27, 10:26 pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
The following article is a transcription of part of a discussion between =
Dr.
Julius R. Mantey and Dr. Walter Martin concerning The New World Translati=
on.
They raise some points that Christians need to know concerning this poor
Bible translation.
Julius R. Mantey and Philip B. Harner both complained that their works
were used to support the NWT rendition of John 1:1. Of course they
were, they are trinitarians. They were embarrassed and ambushed by
people like Walter Martin, in public yet. They had to backtrack to
save face. P.B. Harner says he never claimed that John 1:1 could say,
"the Word was a god".
What he actually said as quoted in JW literature and what they don't
tell you is: "Perhaps the clause could be translated, 'the Word had
the same nature as God." Elaborating on this point, Philip B. Harner
brought out that the grammatical construction in John 1:1 involves an
anarthrous predicate, that is, a predicate noun without the definite
article "the" preceding the verb, which construction is primarily
qualitative in meaning and indicates that "the logos has the nature of
theos." He further stated: "In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative
force of the predicate is so prominent that the noun [the=B7os'] cannot
be regarded as definite." (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp.
85, 87)
Interestingly, if you look at Walter Martin's "Jehovah of the
Watchtower" right above the ISBN, in the opening pages, it says,
"Scripture quotations are the author's translation of the Greek and
Hebrew, unless otherwise noted." Are you willing to apply the same
standards of critique of translation to him as you apply to those with
whom you disagree?
All their propaganda is addressed at
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/newworldtranslation/john1.1c.htm
http://jehovah.to/exe/discussion/hommel.htm
If you were in the 1st century and wanted to know about Christianity,
would you ask Hymenaeus or Philetus? the Pharisees or Sadducees??
Would you consider ex-Christians as "experts" on Christianity and thus
view it as a "heretical cult" of Judaism? Would this reflect
Christian justice and reasonableness?
------------------------------------------
Do you want to know what Jehovah's Witnesses REALLY teach? Go to the
source
http://www.watchtower.org/
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "sandman" |
|
| Title: Re: The New World Translation |
29 Jun 2007 12:41:41 AM |
|
|
There's only one solution to what is happening.......and that is to inform
the Christian community that all these alternative translations are no
coincidence and whose owners/investors have an agenda.
To cause confusion, to cause friction within the Christian community, and
eventually and gradually write out the Jewish connection to the crucifixion.
And lastly to destroy Christianity. This not what theologians are saying,
but political historians are saying.
Zionists have been enticing evanelical pastors for some time, and likely
fast-tracking those they can blackmail to do their political bidding.
The Zionists are also zeroing in on the evangelicals themselves. They
hustled the new versions by false negatives about the KJV or tearing it
apart.
The NKJV is just another translation, and it's copyright was bought out by
FOX, who also did the books movies, on the mythical (not Biblical) rapture,
and the same people pushed the theory of Jesus being married to Mary M.,
etc..... which is in the Talmud, and promo-ed the Da Vinci
Code. Everything on the TV regarding Christianity is subtle ridiucle.
This is Zionism wooing the evangelicals with one hand, and laughing at them
on the other.
Beware.
We are living in tough times.
"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:f5v686$594$1@news.utelfla.com...
The following article is a transcription of part of a discussion between
Dr. Julius R. Mantey and Dr. Walter Martin concerning The New World
Translation. They raise some points that Christians need to know
concerning this poor Bible translation.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION
Dr. Julius R. Mantey was a first rate scholar who studied Greek for more
than 65 years. He was well known for "A Manual Grammar of the Greek New
Testament, which he co-authored with Dr. H.E. Dana. The following is a
discussion that took place between Dr. Martin and Dr. Mantey on the
Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation.
DR. MARTIN: In John 1:1, the New World Translation (NWT) says that "the
Word was a God," referring to Jesus Christ. How would you respond to that?
DR. MANTEY: The Jehovah's Witnesses (JWs) have forgotten entirely what the
order of the sentence indicates - that the "Logos" has the same substance,
nature, or essence as the Father. To indicate that Jesus was just "a god,"
the JWs would have to use a completely different construction in the
Greek.
DR. MARTIN: You once had a little difference of opinion with the
Watchtower about this and wrote them a letter. What was their response to
your letter?
DR. MANTEY: Well, as a backdrop, I was disturbed because they had
misquoted me in support of their translation. I called their attention to
the fact that the whole body of the New Testament was against their view.
Throughout the New Testament, Jesus is glorified and magnified - yet here
they were denigrating Him and making Him into a little god of a pagan
concept.
DR. MARTIN: What was their response to what you said?
DR. MANTEY: They said I could have my opinion and they would retain
theirs. What I wrote didn't phase them a bit.
DR. MARTIN: I don't know whether you're aware of it, but there is not a
single Greek scholar in the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I did
everything I could to find out the names of the translating committee of
the NWT, and the Watchtower wouldn't tell me a thing. Finally, an ex-JW
who knew the committee members
personally told me who they were, and the men on that committee could not
read New Testament Greek; nor could they read Hebrew; nor did they have
any knowledge of systematic theology - except what they had learned from
the Watchtower. Only one of them had been to college, and he had dropped
out after a year. He briefly studied the biblical languages while there.
DR. MANTEY: He was born in Greece, wasn't he?
DR. MARTIN: Yes, he read modern Greek, and I met him when I visited the
Watchtower. I asked him to read John 1:1 in the Greek and then said, "How
would you translate it?" He said: "Well, 'the word was a god."' I said:
"What is the subject of the sentence?" He just looked at me. So I
repeated, "What is the subject of the sentence?" He didn't know. This was
the only person in the Watchtower to read Greek and he didn't know, the
subject of the sentence in John 1:1. And these were the people who wrote
back to you and said their opinion was as good as yours.
DR. MANTEY: That's right.
DR. MARTIN: Often we find JW publications quoting scholars. Do they quote
these people in context?
DR. MANTEY: No. They use this device to fool people into thinking that
scholars agree with the JWs. Out of all the Greek professors, grammarians,
and commentators they have quoted, only one (a Unitarian) agreed that "the
word was a god."
DR. MARTIN: You have been quoted as saying that the translators of the NWT
are diabolical deceivers."
DR. MANTEY: Yes. The translation is deceptive, and I believe it's a
terrible thing for a person to be deceived and go into eternity lost,
forever lost because somebody deliberately misled him by distorting the
Scripture!
DR. MARTIN: What would you say to a JW who was looking for the truth?
DR. MANTEY: I would advise him to get a translation other than the NWT,
because ninety-nine percent of the scholars of the world who know Greek
and who have helped translate the Bible are in disagreement with the JWs.
People who are looking for the truth ought to know what the majority of
the scholars really believe. They should not allow themselves to be misled
by the JWs and end up in hell.
-=(END)=-
These words were excerpted from the tape, "Martin and Mantey on The New
World Translation" (catalogue number C-118). Reproduced by written
permission.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The New World Translation |
29 Jun 2007 09:20:31 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:41:41 -0700, "sandman" <sandman@hotmail.com>
wrote:
There's only one solution to what is happening.......and that is to inform
the Christian community that all these alternative translations are no
coincidence and whose owners/investors have an agenda.
In this case to promote the watchtower. Nothing more. Nothing less.
To cause confusion, to cause friction within the Christian community, and
eventually and gradually write out the Jewish connection to the crucifixion.
And lastly to destroy Christianity. This not what theologians are saying,
but political historians are saying.
This seems to be what YOU are saying. Nothing more.
Zionists have been enticing evanelical pastors for some time, and likely
fast-tracking those they can blackmail to do their political bidding.
Oooooh, another "plot!" Ooooooh! And there is a commie under every
bush! What a bunch of horse dung!
The Zionists are also zeroing in on the evangelicals themselves. They
hustled the new versions by false negatives about the KJV or tearing it
apart.
Complete balogna. New translations are new translations. Less than a
half-dozen of them were translated with "agendas" other than to do a
more accurate and up-to-date translation in today's English.
The NKJV is just another translation, and it's copyright was bought out by
FOX, who also did the books movies, on the mythical (not Biblical) rapture,
Which shows you don't know your Bible, since the concept we call "the
rapture" IS Biblical.
and the same people pushed the theory of Jesus being married to Mary M.,
etc..... which is in the Talmud, and promo-ed the Da Vinci
Code. Everything on the TV regarding Christianity is subtle ridiucle.
This is Zionism wooing the evangelicals with one hand, and laughing at them
on the other.
Beware.
Not of modern Bible translations. We can readily see the
counterfeits. The good translations like the NKJV, NIV, NAB, etc are
just fine, despite your conspiracy theories.>
We are living in tough times.
That we can agree about.
Checker
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
