AnonMoos wrote:

"Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote:

The Only "Democracy" in the Middle East where..
No Separation between religion and state.

Big deal -- there's an official state Church in England, and Islam
is the official state religion of most Arab countries.

Non Jews are discriminated in most areas.

Any inhabitant of Israel who volunteers to join the Israeli army
can receive most of those special benefits.

Religious laws dictate the life style of non-religious israeli
citizens.

Most of the time, it's secular Jews who are subject to Jewish
religious restrictions. Each religious community has its own sytem
of laws for "personal status matters" -- it's called the "Millet"
system, and it was inherited from the Ottoman empire.

Even today, after 50 years of independence israel has no
constitution.

Big deal -- the U.K. doesn't have a constitution after 937 years of
independence.

What a wonderful "democracy"

It ain't perfect by any means -- but when you compare it to the
political system of any Arab country, then it looks positively
Periclean!
Just go to go to http://www.freedomhouse.org/ , and you'll find in
the 2001-2002 report there that few Arab countries meet even
miminal standards of basic democracy, and out of the 47
Muslim-majority countries in the world only 1 (one) country is
classified as meeting the standards of a fully "Free" society (this
is Mali, which is not an Arab country, and probably narrowly
escaped being delisted last year when an election dispute
threatened to turn ugly). By contrast, Israel got a "2.0 Free"
ranking in the same report, on a scale where 1.0-2.5 is "Free",
3.0-5.5 is "Partly Free", and 5.5-7.0 is "Not Free". The
highest-ranking Arab country is Jordan, with a 4.0 rating, while
all other Arab countries except Kuwait are firmly in the "Not Free"
category (unless you count Mauretania as being "Arab")
http://www.freedomhouse.org/research/freeworld/2002/essay2002.pdf

you know about as much about "Islamic countries" as you know about
about the Zionists.

"David T" <icne2469nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tr71uvg670nkgg3kfgg7m5fuih2hg59m9e@4ax.com...

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:37:57 -0000, "Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote:

30% of all people under israeli control do not enjoy civil, or even

rights.

And if those 30% wanted peace, there wouldn't be Israeli control. That
point adds nothing to your argument but rather proves that its the
folks trying to destroy Israel that don't believe in democracy.

That's an argument borrowed from Apartheid Afrikaners, when blacks got
penned into time homlands in the desert and revolted. Let the refugees go
home, or at least pay them restitution / compensation and there won't be

revolt. "Destroy Israel" indeed!!!! If israel can only exist by butalizing
those who object being dispossessed without compensation, it needs to be
"destroyed".

Parts of the education system are controlled by the secret services.

Right puppy. Check your tin foil hat, it's slipping.

Since Israel considers itself at war, EVERYTHING is controlled by the
propaganda machine of the secret services.

80% of israel's resources belong to 10% of it's citizens (The Russians

doubt!)

Any shred of proof of that one? Meanwhile, in most of the developed
world -- The USA, England, other parts of Western Europe -- that
percentage is usual or even low. The wealthy are wealthy because,
believe it or not, they control more of the wealth than those who are
not wealthy. That, however, doesn't obviate the concept of democracy.

More then 1000 people are held in administrative custody without being
charged, and with no time limits.

Out of more than 3 million folks, by your own statements above? Pretty
low percenage. The non-democracies of the Arab world are much worse.
80% of political prisoiners are held in Muslim countries, while Islam
is only 20% of the world's population. So the democracy of Israel is
doing much better than your friends.

Comparing yourself to your fellow Semites now, are you? "We are not as
bad as them!!!!" It's a lousy argument to justify brutality towards the
defenceless.

What a wonderful "democracy"

Once again all you've shown is that anti-zionism is just Newspeak for
anti-semitism. All you can do is ignore reality and lie in order to
push your message of hate.

"Hate" indeed!!!! That's what Hitler's goons said when anyone

about their maltreatment of Jews, or redneck Afrikaners and Americans when
anyone complained about their treatment of blacks, etc. etc. ad infinitum.
Also it is well to remember, that Arabs are far purer Semites than today's
Jews, who are mostly Arian Khazars.
We Christian Human Rights advocates are decidedly NOT anti-Semites.

--
Pastor Frank

PETITION TO WORLD LEADERS
We the undersigned want justice, and have the appalling death toll of
Zionist aggression, oppression, occupation and colonialism in the Middle
East declared a "Crime against Humanity" which must be punished. We want
human rights respected, occupation made illegal, and the appalling
conditions imposed on occupied civilian populations lifted.
We want an International Court with power to resolve territorial
disputes established NOW, so that the dispossessed and ethnically cleansed
can sue for redress, instead of having to resort to suicide bombing to

scant attention to their plight. Any government conducting or supporting
colonialism or other human rights abuses, must be declared a rogue state

their leaders and perpetrators must face criminal charges. Supporting,
encouraging or financing human and civil rights abusers must be considered
a hate crime.



---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.547 / Virus Database: 340 - Release Date: 12/2/03

David T <icne2469nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<49n1tvojd51cg55cqd6pqlddid1045mf7s@4ax.com>...

Though I don't expect it, I do request you to quit your repeated
lying.

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:37:57 -0000, "Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote:

The Only "Democracy" in the Middle East where..

No Separation between religion and state.

Exactly how? People of all religions are citizens, vote and have equal
rights. That's separation.

A clear seperation is apparent when you view the squawlor and
discriminaton against the Arabs. Government jobs, funding for housing,
infrastucture and the like are all distributed along ethnic lines.

Non Jews are discriminated in most areas.

Not true. Arabs are often discriminated against, but every democracy
has problems with discrimination. You charge means there are no
democracies. Actually there aren't, just forms of democratic
republics, but that's probably beyone you.

Discrimnation along ethnic and religous lines are an everyday event in
Israel, even amongst the Jews themselves, where Shephardic Jews are
discrimnated against by the Akanazi majority.

Religious laws dictate the life style of non-religious israeli citizens.

Yup, and something Shinui is fighting to change. Also note, the laws
only affect non-religious Jews. Arab stores have their own hours,
Rabbis have no control over marriages of other religions, and each
religion has its own freedoms.

Even so, explain how laws about when Jewish stores can be open
violates a democracy. Did the old Massachusetts (and other States)
Blue Laws mean the US wasn't a democracy? If the Knesset ever wishes
to take the power away from the Rabbis it can. That's democracy.
Unlike Iran where the religious council has absolute authority and
power.

A rather pathetic attempt at making store hours a description of
life-style. Childish and hardly worth the reply.

Even today, after 50 years of independence israel has no constitution.

England's been a nation much longer and still has no constitution.
Both have a basic set of laws that count as a constitution. In Israel,
they're not surprisingly called the Basic Laws
(http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles/const-intro-93.htm)

Now please explain to me how England isn't a democracy because it
lacks a constitution.

A simple explaination, it should be right up your alley then,
Constitutions are declarations of rights for a state's citizenry, they
don't define a democracy, they lay out the rights of the citizens and
are supposed to create universality for the citizens. That is why
Zionists will never be able to create a Constitution, unless they
complete their ethnic cleansing of the state.

30% of all people under israeli control do not enjoy civil, or even human
rights.

And if those 30% wanted peace, there wouldn't be Israeli control. That
point adds nothing to your argument but rather proves that its the
folks trying to destroy Israel that don't believe in democracy.

A complete lack of answering the 30% rights issue, and an obvious
reply of a Zionist, a classic example of a self-fulfilling paranoid
delusion.

Parts of the education system are controlled by the secret services.

Right puppy. Check your tin foil hat, it's slipping.

80% of israel's resources belong to 10% of it's citizens (The Russians no
doubt!)

Any shred of proof of that one? Meanwhile, in most of the developed
world -- The USA, England, other parts of Western Europe -- that
percentage is usual or even low. The wealthy are wealthy because,
believe it or not, they control more of the wealth than those who are
not wealthy. That, however, doesn't obviate the concept of democracy.

Rampant capitalism is far from being a democractic institution,

capitalism in itself is more a dictorial institution, where the power
focuses into larger and larger corporations controlled by the
officers. Something akin to Commmunism where more of the control goes
to the higher ranking party members, in the end corruption
disintigrates the structure. When viewing the corruption of the last
few years in the US, and the ease with which US justice was bought, a
similar situation is taking place in the US.

More then 1000 people are held in administrative custody without being
charged, and with no time limits.

Out of more than 3 million folks, by your own statements above? Pretty
low percenage. The non-democracies of the Arab world are much worse.
80% of political prisoiners are held in Muslim countries, while Islam
is only 20% of the world's population. So the democracy of Israel is
doing much better than your friends.

Care to garner a scrap of proof to back your claims?

Thought not.

Like it or not the legal systems in Muslim countries are working, the
crime rates in these countries are miniscule by comparison. In the US
1 in 10 people have been jailed for more than 6 months in their life,
towit they're criminals.

And from the group of 3 million that states Israel shouldn't exist and
that the suicide bombings of civilians is just. Yes, I think there are
too many folks in custody without being charged, but again that's a
different point that democracy. It's a question of being in a war
zone. Were prisoners of war in any other war charged in courts of law
or were they held until the end of the war?

When Israel answers to their obvious war crimes, crimes against
humanity, etc. etc. then there maybe an argument made against the
suicide bombers, as of now the Arabs are fighting the overwhelming
oppression with the most effective weapon they have. Self sacrifice in
a war is as old as there was war, most noteably in WWII and Vietnam,
where human bombs were weapons of last resort.

israel is the only country that has a law allowing interrogators to use
torture!!!

1) Show me that law. 2) The *N reports torture is regularly used in
Arab countries. As for one additional piece of fun, look at appendix 4
of http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engact400082003. It lists
countries with reported use of electro-torture (including Canada. Yes,
Canada). Look at how many democracies are listed. Also note that
Israel isn't.

Well with that pathetic logic you can then justify the Holocaust.

Hardly suprising given the obvious parallels between Zionism and
Nazism.

All mass media channels are held by a handful of families.

Have you heard of Rupert Murdoch? How about the tight control of media
by governments and corporations in Europe and the US? Meanwhile, if
you lived here you'd know how many international stations are on cable
and satellite. If I understood Arabic I could watch news from Egypt,
Jordan (actually they also broadcast in English), Syria and elsewhere.
We get CNN, FoxNews, BBC, Skynews and Russian news.

Show me an Arab country where most people can get more than the
government's media or a democracy with more access to international
information.

The remark about control of media is most likely a reference about the
control of the majority of minds in a supposedly free country, and the
vast majority of the population watches the mainstream media.

in israel, the government has the right to shut down a newspaper.

Nope, but it does have the right to censor papers. Is Germany not a
democracy because it has laws that can shut down cults, people who
espouse violent anti-semitism, and for other reasons? Is England not a
democracy because the government says no English media can discuss the
rumours Prince Charles' possible bisexual activities?

Censorship is just another divergence from Freedom of the Press,
religating the truth to something that the government controls, a
clear parallel is with Nazism and Communism.

Non Jewish citizens are forbidden from buying state owned land.

No, puppy, everyone's forbidden from buying state owned land. That's
why it is State owned. It is held in trust for the people and by the
Basic Laws (remember them?) can't be sold.

However, Jews and non-Jews alike have leased State owned land.

What a wonderful "democracy"

Once again all you've shown is that anti-zionism is just Newspeak for
anti-semitism. All you can do is ignore reality and lie in order to
push your message of hate.

Mindless obedience is what you're displaying, the oppressive socialist
movements of the last century were laden full with folks like
yourself, your latent racism is now displayed for all.

Ahhhh the
wonders of the internet, Zionist filth like yourself can no longer
hide the evil deeds. The time is coming to an end for the US and
Israel's reign of terror, the corrupt systems will cave in on
themselves over the next decade. Who knows, at the end of it all
democracy may take hold in these two nations as well, you never know.

great replies David
you destroyed one by one the lies of the poor ignorant Yass .