| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Dr Tam" |
| Date: |
03 Apr 2005 11:42:19 PM |
| Object: |
The Orange Order |
I was once invited by a good friend of mine to an Orange celebration in
Glesga on the eve of a big march.In fact these celebrations were going on in
many pubs in the proddy areas of Glasgow.
This was an eye-opener for me. I could see the joviality for sure and most
of them were just having a good time but behind it all I could see a
brain-dead numbness in many of them.I could only describe it as a sort of
retardation - like kids in adult bodies - with a menacing air about them.Now
we heidbangers have our moments but these guys were just out of my league.
Now I am no Catholic and neither am I a proddy (though I was raised C of
Scot in Aberdeen we respect other religions be they anti-Christ or
whatever).This certainly got me thinking about the sort of morons we have
marching about our street. Not that I believe that their Catholic oposite
numbers are any better mind you.Oh for a world without religion run by
Scientists and Engineers in the name of knowledge instead of fairy-tale
Popes and Pastors.
Would they make a better job you may ask? Well could they mess it up any
more than the religious brigade and the arty farties.
Dr Tam
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| User: "Jackie Mulheron" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 08:04:50 AM |
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"Dr Tam" <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:DA34e.15557$1S4.1606940@news.xtra.co.nz...
I was once invited by a good friend of mine to an Orange celebration in
Glesga on the eve of a big march.In fact these celebrations were going on
in
many pubs in the proddy areas of Glasgow.
The "Proddy areas of Glasgow"? Now where would they be?
This was an eye-opener for me. I could see the joviality for sure and most
of them were just having a good time but behind it all I could see a
brain-dead numbness in many of them.I could only describe it as a sort of
retardation - like kids in adult bodies - with a menacing air about
them.Now
we heidbangers have our moments but these guys were just out of my league.
It's the Southern Yoemanry syndrome. They have to _feel_ they have a stake
in the power system of society. They latch on to Government propaganda at
some time in their family's history in order to survive and then convince
themselves that they are not acting slavishly. It's all just free will on
their behalf. They also need an "enemy" in order to again _feel_ better than
others or to convince themselves they are. Hence the "Papes" - the niggahs
in this instance.
How else could one explain people who celebrate William of Orange as a hero
despite the fact he was an ansentee ruler who ordered murder, abandonment of
Scots at Darien and did very little to alleviate the famine as he fought
with France.
The latent aggression you perceive is probably a defensive measure from
knowing deep down that they are wrong (pride and arrogance stop them
admitting they may be watsing their lives).
Now I am no Catholic and neither am I a proddy (though I was raised C of
Scot in Aberdeen we respect other religions be they anti-Christ or
whatever).This certainly got me thinking about the sort of morons we have
marching about our street. Not that I believe that their Catholic oposite
numbers are any better mind you.
How often do you see them?
Oh for a world without religion run by Scientists and Engineers in the
name of knowledge
instead of fairy-tale Popes and Pastors.
Popes and Pastors seem real enough to me. What makes you think scientists
and engineers have universal knowledge?
What makes you think they are all atheists to a person?
Would they make a better job you may ask? Well could they mess it up any
more than the religious brigade and the arty farties.
Wasn't the Soviet Union run by those who din't have time for religion?
Is that the example you apsire to?
.
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| User: "Dr Tam" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 09:44:49 PM |
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"Jackie Mulheron" <JackieMulheron@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3bcsb5F6i8ltuU1@individual.net...
"Dr Tam" <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
Wasn't the Soviet Union run by those who din't have time for religion?
Is that the example you apsire to?
You know that's a good question and one which I thought somebody would ask.
The answer is no.
The reason is that the Soviet Union was run by an iron first and was a cruel
and brutal regeim - almost as bad as Nazi Germany (some would say worse). I
am not advocating a dictatorship but for people to get educated and have
free thought. The French have stopped religious symbols in schools - would
you call that Sovietism?Yes there is a danger of course that such a
utilitarian society could get out of hand.What is needed is spirituality -
not religion.(BTW spirituality is not equal to spiritualism - that's another
religion). What I mean is that children and adults learn to respect other
humans and animals and live in peace with each other.Of course that may well
be the fundamental teaching of Christianity and if so then that's fine but
we don't need Popes and Bishops,rituals,bended knees,praying and
superstition to go with it. What we really need is positive thinking - for
everybody.Positive thinking without the arrogance - with humility. You don't
need a God or a Saviour (or afterlife) to be a good person.
Now you will probably think 'who is he to say that - he's not so great
himself'.Well here is an example...
Let's take Gene Therapy or even stem-cell research. All the time we hear the
religious right harping on about this.
Let's use logic and reasoning to get an answer. If it is the mothers wish
for the child to be terminated (not saying I agree but if it is her wish)
then why not make use of the stem-cells to save somebody elses life?If all
mothers over-night decide not to have abortions then maybe the practice
should stop. (though we can get stem-cells from bone-marrow - I know). In
days of old the Bishops were part of government supposedly to add a
'spiritual' dimension.As ritual has now taken over in the Churches from any
form of spirituality (were it ever there in the first place) then they have
lost the right to guide others.We have the knowledge to think things out for
ourselves without the interference of religion.
Dr Tam
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| User: "Jackie Mulheron" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
07 Apr 2005 04:46:45 PM |
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"Dr Tam" <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:qYm4e.16003$1S4.1639137@news.xtra.co.nz...
"Jackie Mulheron" <JackieMulheron@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3bcsb5F6i8ltuU1@individual.net...
"Dr Tam" <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
Wasn't the Soviet Union run by those who din't have time for religion?
Is that the example you apsire to?
You know that's a good question and one which I thought somebody would
ask.
The answer is no.
The reason is that the Soviet Union was run by an iron first and was a
cruel
and brutal regeim - almost as bad as Nazi Germany (some would say worse).
Wasn't Stakhanovism based around rational of scientists and engineers?
I am not advocating a dictatorship but for people to get educated and have
free thought.
You were advocating scientists and engineers being top dogs. You gave
changed your option.
The French have stopped religious symbols in schools - would
you call that Sovietism?
Yes. What harm does a piece of cloth do?
Yes there is a danger of course that such a utilitarian society could get
out of hand.What is needed is
spirituality
Where does that firt in with scientists and engineers running things like
you said earlier?
- not religion.(BTW spirituality is not equal to spiritualism - that's
another
religion).
Many religions talk about and involve spirituality. What do you think the
Holy Ghost is?
What I mean is that children and adults learn to respect other
humans and animals and live in peace with each other.
Then why not practice that by respecting that Catholics like having a Pope.
Of course that may well be the fundamental teaching of Christianity and if
so then that's fine but
we don't need Popes and Bishops,rituals,bended knees,praying and
superstition to go with it.
When did you become Pope to tell Catholics that?
What we really need is positive thinking - for everybody.Positive thinking
without the arrogance -
with humility. You don't need a God or a Saviour (or afterlife) to be a
good person.
True but does it make one a good person to denigrate what they presently
believe?
Now you will probably think 'who is he to say that - he's not so great
himself'.Well here is an example...
Let's take Gene Therapy or even stem-cell research. All the time we hear
the
religious right harping on about this.
Let's use logic and reasoning to get an answer. If it is the mothers wish
for the child to be terminated (not saying I agree but if it is her wish)
then why not make use of the stem-cells to save somebody elses life?If all
mothers over-night decide not to have abortions then maybe the practice
should stop. (though we can get stem-cells from bone-marrow - I know). In
days of old the Bishops were part of government supposedly to add a
'spiritual' dimension.As ritual has now taken over in the Churches from
any
form of spirituality (were it ever there in the first place) then they
have
lost the right to guide others.We have the knowledge to think things out
for
ourselves without the interference of religion.
Because they see it as murder.
.
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| User: "Glenallan" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 12:25:38 AM |
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"Dr Tam" <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:DA34e.15557$1S4.1606940@news.xtra.co.nz...
I was once invited by a good friend of mine to an Orange celebration in
Glesga on the eve of a big march.In fact these celebrations were going on
in
many pubs in the proddy areas of Glasgow.
This was an eye-opener for me. I could see the joviality for sure and most
of them were just having a good time but behind it all I could see a
brain-dead numbness in many of them.I could only describe it as a sort of
retardation - like kids in adult bodies - with a menacing air about
them.Now
we heidbangers have our moments but these guys were just out of my league.
Now I am no Catholic and neither am I a proddy (though I was raised C of
Scot in Aberdeen we respect other religions be they anti-Christ or
whatever).This certainly got me thinking about the sort of morons we have
marching about our street. Not that I believe that their Catholic oposite
numbers are any better mind you.Oh for a world without religion run by
Scientists and Engineers in the name of knowledge instead of fairy-tale
Popes and Pastors.
Would they make a better job you may ask? Well could they mess it up any
more than the religious brigade and the arty farties.
Dr Tam
Surprisingly, you may think, I have never been anywhere
near an Orange Lodge. I just like good tunes and the beating of the
big bass drum. Whit's your excuse.?
G
--
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| User: "Dr Tam" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 01:02:42 AM |
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"Glenallan" <glenallan@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4250cfd4$0$305$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
Surprisingly, you may think, I have never been anywhere
near an Orange Lodge. I just like good tunes and the beating of the
big bass drum. Whit's your excuse.?
G
--
It was education time. I spent about one hour in the Lodge (neede to be
signed in) and the rest of the time
I spent in a huge pub somewhere (I forget where it was).The only way is to
see for yourself.
Dr Tam
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| User: "Steve O" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 06:18:22 AM |
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"Glenallan" <glenallan@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4250cfd4$0$305$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
"Dr Tam" <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:DA34e.15557$1S4.1606940@news.xtra.co.nz...
I was once invited by a good friend of mine to an Orange celebration in
Glesga on the eve of a big march.In fact these celebrations were going on
in
many pubs in the proddy areas of Glasgow.
This was an eye-opener for me. I could see the joviality for sure and
most
of them were just having a good time but behind it all I could see a
brain-dead numbness in many of them.I could only describe it as a sort of
retardation - like kids in adult bodies - with a menacing air about
them.Now
we heidbangers have our moments but these guys were just out of my
league.
I've notoced that too - and the problem seems to become worse as time
passes.
At a rough guess, I'd ascribe it to inbreeding.
Many of these people come from small knit communities and their biases often
prevent them from marrying too far outside their own church.
End result?
Unhealthy inbreeding and subsequent retardation.
.
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| User: "Jackie Mulheron" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 08:09:10 AM |
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"Steve O" <stoboyle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3bcm3vF6au33vU1@individual.net...
"Glenallan" <glenallan@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4250cfd4$0$305$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
"Dr Tam" <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:DA34e.15557$1S4.1606940@news.xtra.co.nz...
I was once invited by a good friend of mine to an Orange celebration in
Glesga on the eve of a big march.In fact these celebrations were going
on in
many pubs in the proddy areas of Glasgow.
This was an eye-opener for me. I could see the joviality for sure and
most
of them were just having a good time but behind it all I could see a
brain-dead numbness in many of them.I could only describe it as a sort
of
retardation - like kids in adult bodies - with a menacing air about
them.Now
we heidbangers have our moments but these guys were just out of my
league.
I've notoced that too - and the problem seems to become worse as time
passes.
I suspect it's a vicious downward spiral arising from their abandonement by
a political middle class who sued to patronise them.
As more members of the middle class desert them for their excesses their
excesses become more pronounced and this more middle class members desert
them.
Howevr that doesn't mean a middle class won't attach themselves to them
again. That's what saved the Irish variety but only because they were
becoming anarchic and a middle class saw a need or an opportunity to attach
themselves to them.
At a rough guess, I'd ascribe it to inbreeding.
Many of these people come from small knit communities and their biases
often prevent them from marrying too far outside their own church.
End result?
Unhealthy inbreeding and subsequent retardation.
.
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| User: "Glenallan" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 08:07:56 AM |
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"Steve O" <stoboyle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3bcm3vF6au33vU1@individual.net...
I've notoced that too - and the problem seems to become worse as time
passes.
At a rough guess, I'd ascribe it to inbreeding.
Many of these people come from small knit communities and their biases
often prevent them from marrying too far outside their own church.
End result?
Unhealthy inbreeding and subsequent retardation.
I ascribe it to inadequate education and the paucity of
good teachers and role models
I also believe it is linked to the inadequacy of school
meals thereby depriving the brain of nourishment
Glenallan
---------
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 12:18:26 PM |
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"Glenallan" <glenallan@msn.com> wrote in message
news:42513c2f$0$299$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
"Steve O" <stoboyle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3bcm3vF6au33vU1@individual.net...
I've notoced that too - and the problem seems to become worse as time
passes.
At a rough guess, I'd ascribe it to inbreeding.
Many of these people come from small knit communities and their biases
often prevent them from marrying too far outside their own church.
End result?
Unhealthy inbreeding and subsequent retardation.
I ascribe it to inadequate education and the paucity of
good teachers and role models
I also believe it is linked to the inadequacy of school
meals thereby depriving the brain of nourishment
Glenallan
---------
I agree, certainly evident in my part of the country anyways
.
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| User: "Glenallan" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 09:23:21 PM |
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"kathryn" <bob@bobbybobbobthebobster.com> wrote in message
news:d2rst2$d93$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
I also believe it is linked to the inadequacy of school
meals thereby depriving the brain of nourishment
Glenallan
---------
I agree, certainly evident in my part of the country anyways
Yes, I never cease to marvel at the wisdom of some of my observations. ;-)
G
--
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| User: "robert bowman" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 08:17:56 AM |
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Dr Tam wrote:
Oh for a world without religion run by
Scientists and Engineers in the name of knowledge instead of fairy-tale
Popes and Pastors.
You're more or less living in one, if you haven't noticed. Scientists,
engineers, and moneychangers, that is.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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| User: "William McHale" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 09:28:16 AM |
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In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Dr Tam <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
Oh for a world without religion run by
Scientists and Engineers in the name of knowledge instead of fairy-tale
Popes and Pastors.
Would they make a better job you may ask? Well could they mess it up any
more than the religious brigade and the arty farties.
Yes, they could mess it up vastly more than religous ever had. In less than
a Century the supposedly scientific system of Communism made a good run of
killing more people than the Catholics and Protestants have in almost
2000 years (admittedly the Communists had modern technology on their side).
Between Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and the leaders of Korea, communism is responsible
for at least 100 million deaths and perhaps far more.
--
Bill
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| User: "IKnowMoreThanYou" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 09:43:12 AM |
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William McHale wrote:
In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Dr Tam <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz>
wrote:
Oh for a world without religion run by
Scientists and Engineers in the name of knowledge instead of
fairy-tale
Popes and Pastors.
Would they make a better job you may ask? Well could they mess it
up any
more than the religious brigade and the arty farties.
Yes, they could mess it up vastly more than religous ever had. In
less than
a Century the supposedly scientific system of Communism made a good
run of
killing more people than the Catholics and Protestants have in almost
2000 years (admittedly the Communists had modern technology on their
side).
Between Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and the leaders of Korea, communism is
responsible
for at least 100 million deaths and perhaps far more.
Ah, but the non-Christian and atheist usually has a double-standard out
for the above to escape blame; the above were all educated or
influenced by Catholicism or Protestant Christianity at one point in
their lives, so Christianity is still responsible (really, the excuse
has been used often).
--
Bill
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| User: "JPG" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
05 Apr 2005 07:06:51 AM |
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On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:42:19 +1200, "Dr Tam" <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
I was once invited by a good friend of mine to an Orange celebration in
Glesga on the eve of a big march.In fact these celebrations were going on in
many pubs in the proddy areas of Glasgow.
This was an eye-opener for me. I could see the joviality for sure and most
of them were just having a good time but behind it all I could see a
brain-dead numbness in many of them.I could only describe it as a sort of
retardation - like kids in adult bodies - with a menacing air about them.Now
we heidbangers have our moments but these guys were just out of my league.
Now I am no Catholic and neither am I a proddy (though I was raised C of
Scot in Aberdeen we respect other religions be they anti-Christ or
whatever).This certainly got me thinking about the sort of morons we have
marching about our street. Not that I believe that their Catholic oposite
numbers are any better mind you.Oh for a world without religion run by
Scientists and Engineers in the name of knowledge instead of fairy-tale
Popes and Pastors.
Would they make a better job you may ask? Well could they mess it up any
more than the religious brigade and the arty farties.
Dr Tam
What possible interest could sectarian hate groups be to atheists, other than
more justification for consigning religion to the garbage can of history.
.
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 08:22:44 AM |
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Up the long ladder and down the short rope
To Hell with King Billie and God bless the Pope.
BAM
"Dr Tam" <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:DA34e.15557$1S4.1606940@news.xtra.co.nz...
I was once invited by a good friend of mine to an Orange celebration in
Glesga on the eve of a big march.In fact these celebrations were going on
in
many pubs in the proddy areas of Glasgow.
This was an eye-opener for me. I could see the joviality for sure and most
of them were just having a good time but behind it all I could see a
brain-dead numbness in many of them.I could only describe it as a sort of
retardation - like kids in adult bodies - with a menacing air about
them.Now
we heidbangers have our moments but these guys were just out of my league.
Now I am no Catholic and neither am I a proddy (though I was raised C of
Scot in Aberdeen we respect other religions be they anti-Christ or
whatever).This certainly got me thinking about the sort of morons we have
marching about our street. Not that I believe that their Catholic oposite
numbers are any better mind you.Oh for a world without religion run by
Scientists and Engineers in the name of knowledge instead of fairy-tale
Popes and Pastors.
Would they make a better job you may ask? Well could they mess it up any
more than the religious brigade and the arty farties.
Dr Tam
.
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| User: "Mad Jack" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 05:53:51 PM |
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"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:T7b4e.19110$UW6.16050@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Up the long ladder and down the short rope
To Hell with King Billie and God bless the Pope.
BAM
And if that doesn't do,
We'll tear him in two.
And send him to hell with his red white and blue.
Mad JAck
"Dr Tam" <ProfTam@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:DA34e.15557$1S4.1606940@news.xtra.co.nz...
I was once invited by a good friend of mine to an Orange celebration in
Glesga on the eve of a big march.In fact these celebrations were going on
in
many pubs in the proddy areas of Glasgow.
This was an eye-opener for me. I could see the joviality for sure and
most
of them were just having a good time but behind it all I could see a
brain-dead numbness in many of them.I could only describe it as a sort of
retardation - like kids in adult bodies - with a menacing air about
them.Now
we heidbangers have our moments but these guys were just out of my
league.
Now I am no Catholic and neither am I a proddy (though I was raised C of
Scot in Aberdeen we respect other religions be they anti-Christ or
whatever).This certainly got me thinking about the sort of morons we have
marching about our street. Not that I believe that their Catholic oposite
numbers are any better mind you.Oh for a world without religion run by
Scientists and Engineers in the name of knowledge instead of fairy-tale
Popes and Pastors.
Would they make a better job you may ask? Well could they mess it up any
more than the religious brigade and the arty farties.
Dr Tam
.
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: The Orange Order |
04 Apr 2005 07:08:27 PM |
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"Mad Jack" <jswartz@lighthouse.net> wrote in message
news:D7mdneFmpJYaWMzfRVn-ig@lighthouse.net...
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:T7b4e.19110$UW6.16050@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Up the long ladder and down the short rope
To Hell with King Billie and God bless the Pope.
BAM
And if that doesn't do,
We'll tear him in two.
And send him to hell with his red white and blue.
Mad JAck
That's it!
BAM
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