| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Carl" |
| Date: |
24 May 2007 08:37:15 PM |
| Object: |
The Power Of Faith |
Faith in Jesus Christ is a marvelous thing. Something that frees us from the
penalty of sin. It is joyous and wondrous. Danny Hall writes about the power
of faith.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
THE POWER OF FAITH
By Danny Hall
One of the most frustrating things about being a human being is being a
human being! There are so many times when we just can't seem to do the right
thing, or think the right thing, or make the right decision. Even on our
best days there is always an undercurrent that isn't quite right.
About a week ago I came across a Dennis the Menace cartoon. A box of crayons
is lying on the floor, and there are drawings all over the wall. Dennis' mom
has put him in the corner. Dennis is saying, "Boy, I sure do wish life came
with an eraser!" Have you ever felt like that? So many times I have. The
good news is that there is an eraser. You just have to know where to look
for it.
This is the second message in a series on the statement in Scripture "The
just shall live by faith." This message will focus on the wonderful power of
faith. For the most part we'll study Paul's letter to the Romans, where he
uses this statement "The just shall live by faith" in his theme verses,
1:16-17. In order to understand this statement, we're going to do a quick
survey of the whole book of Romans, just as we surveyed the book of Habakkuk
in the last message (Discovery Paper 4671). Paul uses this statement as a
launch pad for all the rest of his discussion in the book.
Verses 1-17 of chapter 1 are the introduction of the letter, and it is much
longer than Paul's introductions usually are. It begins with powerful
statements about who Jesus Christ is. It talks of Paul's longing to come and
see the Romans and bring the gospel to them. It concludes with this powerful
statement of what the letter is going to be about in verses 16-17, and we'll
come back and study those two verses in just a moment.
In 1:18 Paul launches into a discussion of the plight of man. He talks about
the problem of sin and its downward spiral in life, about how we fail to
acknowledge who God is and give him the glory as our Creator and Lord. That
leads to all kinds of deterioration and destruction of the very moral fabric
of humanity. He spends the rest of chapter 1 talking about that.
In chapter 2 Paul speaks specifically to his Jewish brethren, who came to
believe that by the privileges given them by God as his chosen people, they
were special spiritually. Paul goes through chapter 2 and well into chapter
3 confronting that error. He reminds them that while they do have the Law
and all kinds of special privileges, and they are called by God to be the
conduit of his Messiah, to be the custodians of his truth and a light to the
world, they have abrogated that responsibility. They have become ingrown and
spiritually proud. Just as the pagans outside their nation have, they have
fallen short of what it means to be truly human, to be people who are alive
in God as we all were created to be.
But in 3:21 to the end of chapter 8, Paul gives us the wonderful news that
God has an answer for all the problems of humanity's sinfulness, whether the
pagan's or the Jew's. Paul builds a glorious exposition of who Christ is,
what he has accomplished for us, and how faith in Christ will help us. By
the time Paul gets to chapter 8, we are in a wonderful attitude of praise
and worship for the great salvation God has given us.
Chapters 9-11 have posed all kinds of difficulty for students of the book of
Romans. In these chapters Paul seems to be sidetracking into the problems
connected with the nation of Israel's being set aside as God's people and
the Gentiles' being "grafted in." But when we study our theme verses, we
will see that these chapters play an important part in the argument Paul is
unfolding as to what God is doing. It is directly related to what we learned
in the last message from the book of Habakkuk about trusting God and his
sovereign purposes.
Then in chapters 12-16, Paul finishes with a wonderful explanation of how
our life in Christ impacts us practically, day by day.
In summary, Paul is unfolding the glorious story of what Jesus Christ has
done for us and how it impacts our lives so that we are set free by him.
With that overview in mind, let's go back and look at our theme verses,
1:16-17:
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation
to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it
the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written,
"But the righteous man shall live by faith."
In these two short verses Paul has managed to compress an incredible amount
of wonderful truth. Let's try to unpack it as we look at the key elements of
the verses.
The gospel proclaims Jesus
First Paul says, "I am not ashamed of the gospel.." What possible reason
could there be for him to be ashamed of the gospel? Some have theorized that
perhaps Paul was a rather obscure preacher from an unimportant portion of
the Roman Empire, and he was now planning to go to the capital city of Rome
and begin to proclaim Christ in the face of the powerful might of Rome, to
enter the teeth of the lion, so to speak. He might have been tempted to feel
insignificant in the larger scope of things.
That could be true, but it is not at the heart of what Paul is saying.
Possibly what Paul is speaking of here is his realization of what the plan
of salvation looks like in its entirety. There is no other book in Paul's
writings where he is more passionate and positive about his own Jewishness,
yet brokenhearted about the unbelief of his Jewish brethren. "Paul," we want
to ask, "didn't God promise the Jews, your people, that they would be the
conduit of the Messiah? Aren't they God's chosen people? How is it that now
the Jews seem to be set aside in favor of the Gentiles?"
This hearkens back to Habakkuk. Remember, Habakkuk too was concerned about
the fate of the Jewish nation. God said he would raise up the Chaldeans
(Babylonians) to come in and discipline them. Habakkuk was aghast that God
would raise up Gentiles to discipline the Jews! He couldn't understand and
was actually angry and disillusioned with God. But God told Habakkuk to step
back and take in the bigger picture. The sovereign God of the universe was
working out his purposes, and Habakkuk needed to trust him.
In the same way Paul as a Jew might be tempted to be ashamed of the fact
that the Jews had failed, and that this church he is planning to visit is a
predominantly Gentile church, yet he, a former Pharisee, is the apostle to
the Gentiles! This might seem like a crazy plan to him.
But regardless of the reason he is tempted to feel ashamed, what Paul wants
us to realize is that he is not ashamed, because God is doing something
greater than either Jew or Gentile could ever imagine! God has done
something so significant, so wonderful, so amazing, that it transcends even
the distinction between Jew and Gentile. This is God's sovereign work for
the whole world, which he had always intended for the nation of Israel, now
fulfilled!
The second word I want us to look at in Paul's theme verses is "gospel." We
sometimes equate the word "gospel" with what we call the plan of salvation,
in other words a description of what we believed to become a Christian. But
that's not the way Paul uses the word "gospel." Paul is talking about the
proclamation of who Jesus Christ is--the Son of God, crucified, risen, and
reigning as Lord--the Savior. In the opening five verses of Romans he
writes:
"Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for
the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the
holy Scriptures, concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David
according to the flesh, who was declared the Son of God with power by the
resurrection from the dead, according to the spirit of holiness, Jesus
Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to
bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's
sake."
The gospel is all about Jesus Christ. It is the proclamation of Christ that
draws people to him, and the proclamation of Christ was at the center of all
that Paul was. In 1 Corinthians 2:2, where Paul is reflecting on his first
visit to the Corinthians, he reminds them, "I determined to know nothing
among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified."
The gospel is able to save
Paul then says about this gospel that it is "the power of God for
salvation." The word "power" is the great Greek word dunamis (from which we
have derived our word "dynamite"). That word simply means to be able. It
speaks of the inherent ability of the gospel to do what it's supposed to do.
Paul makes this same point in Galatians 3:10-14, which is the other place
where he quotes the statement "The just shall live by faith":
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is
written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the
book of the Law, to perform them." Now that no one is justified by the Law
before God is evident; for, "The righteous man shall live by faith."
However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "He who practices them
shall live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having
become a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is every one who hangs on
a tree"--in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to
the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through
faith.
Paul reminds us here, as he teaches in Romans, that there is no inherent
power in the Law to make us new or to change our lives. Rather, as the Law
directed us toward holiness in God, it would expose us as being sinful. In
contrast to that, Paul says that the gospel, the message of who Jesus Christ
is and what he has done, is able to save us. The gospel is where we can find
the "eraser" we're looking for. The gospel of Jesus Christ is how things can
be made new, as we trust in him.
One of the manifestations of our spiritual weakness as human beings is that
we tend to settle for less than what God offers. There are at least four
categories that we fall into in this.
Some people's response to their spiritual need is despair. "I can't change
anything. I'm awful. The world is awful. There's no spiritual hope."
Another category is what I call fatalism. "I'm not getting any better, and I
can't do anything about it. I'm just doing what I can." It amounts to
drudgery. There may be those days when an inspirational speaker or a crisis
helps people in this category to rise to the occasion for a moment or two,
so that things go better. But then they fall back into the rut of drudgery
again. A lot of us live this way.
A third category we might fall into when settling for less than what God
offers is humanistic pride. People in this category cling to accomplishments
or success to feel good about themselves. It may be in the arts or sports or
their profession. It may be in doing enough community service so everybody
will think they're the most wonderful person in the community. Maybe they
experience this through their children. There's a certain task where they
get a little more accomplished, and people recognize them for that. There is
nothing inherently wrong with that, of course, but some people settle for
that as if that were what life is all about--human applause. Every morning
they get up and run back to the rat race saying, "I've got to work harder,
write a few more lines of code. Maybe we'll go public in the next six months
and I'll be the richest guy on my block!"
The fourth category is religious pride. Some develop an attitude in life of
being the most spiritual person they can be to feel good about themselves.
Every religion, Christian and non-Christian, develops around its faith
system a set of beliefs about what a good Christian (Muslim, Mormon, etc.)
is. We have one in this church. If I were to ask you what a good Christian
looks like, certain behaviors and religious activities, "Christian" things,
which, again, are not bad in themselves, would come to mind: go to church
every Sunday, read the Bible every day, etc. But when we define ourselves by
how many good things we do and come to feel that these things are the
essence of life, then we've settled for less than God offers us.
In contrast to these lesser responses to spiritual need, Paul says,
indirectly in Galatians 3:10-14 and specifically in Romans 1:16, that the
gospel itself is the power of God for salvation. The gospel will give us
something far beyond anything we ever dreamed of. It's what will break the
back of all that despair, drudgery, or pride, whether humanistic or
religious, and set us free to experience the real life that God wants to
offer. The gospel tells us there is something more out there to be had!
There is something real, in relationship with God himself, by which we can
be set free from what holds us down, as we believe. This is the real power
of the gospel.
Life-changing faith
Paul goes on to say in 1:17 that in this powerful gospel, to everyone who
believes, the righteousness of God is revealed. There are basically two
positions on what he means by the righteousness of God. One is that this is
God's own moral quality of righteousness. The other is that this is the
righteousness of God that is given to us. Throughout the book of Romans Paul
actually uses this phrase both ways. Depending on the context, he emphasizes
one meaning or the other. In 3:21ff especially, he uses both meanings when
he talks about God's being shown to be a righteous and just God while also
giving to us his righteousness.
I think, however, that in this theme verse Paul is using the first meaning.
This display of the gospel reveals to us that God himself is a righteous
God. We might question his ways and motives at times, but the gospel, the
finished work of Jesus Christ, declares to the world that God himself is
righteous and he has acted justly in his world, even as he has acted
lovingly and wonderfully and graciously toward all who would believe.
Paul then says the righteousness of God is revealed "from faith to faith."
Now if you were to look up the phrase "from faith to faith" in a number of
commentaries on the book of Romans, you'd find umpteen different opinions on
what it means. The Greek text literally says, "Out of faith unto faith."
Sometimes the interpretation of this phrase is that it's intensifying or
emphasizing the idea of faith. Another interpretation points to the
progression of our walk with God; it begins with faith in Christ and
continues with faith in Christ.
But I'd like to suggest another interpretation. The Greek word for faith is
also the word for faithfulness, and depending on its context, it can be used
that way. For instance, in Romans 3:3, Paul clearly uses this word in
reference to God's faithfulness: "What then? If some did not believe, their
unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?" So, in this
case, I would suggest that "faith to faith" is a hinge phrase in Romans
1:17. The righteousness of God is revealed from his faithfulness to our
faith. That is, based on God's righteous faithfulness to fulfill all his
promises and accomplish his works, we place our faith in him. The powerful
gospel has revealed him this way, and as we encounter his wonderful,
transforming grace, the gospel comes home to us personally and powerfully,
changing our lives.
Real life
That brings us finally to the little statement "The righteous man shall live
by faith." Interestingly, Paul's quote from Habakkuk is not a direct
translation of either the Hebrew text or the Septuagint, the Greek
translation of the Old Testament used in Paul's time. Paul is basically
giving us his own paraphrase.
People have struggled as to how to translate this statement. It is most
often translated as we read it above. But an alternate reading, which you
may find in the margin notes of your Bible, is also compelling: "The just by
faith shall live." There are strong arguments in favor of each, but in light
of the whole course of the argument of Romans, I believe the second reading
fits better. Paul is saying to us, "The just by faith shall live." What he
is inviting us to recognize is that this powerful gospel he is talking
about, and which he is going to explain, gives us something more than just
some sort of new religion--it gives us real life. The pagans can try to find
life in self-indulgence or accomplishment. The Jews can search for it in
religious privilege as well as in the ethnicity, legalism, and social
structure that they have built. You can search for life in whatever you
want, but you will find life only in Christ. The one who is justified by
faith in Christ is the one who lives.
What God is offering to us is life that is outside of the normal human
experience. An interesting study for you to do would be to trace out the
word "life" or "live" in the New Testament using a concordance. The New
Testament concept of life is not mere existence. It is a special kind of
life, a life that is empowered by God himself. What Paul wants us to see is
that in the gospel of Christ, what has kept us in bondage is broken and we
are set free.
At the end of each major section of the book of Romans, Paul's heart breaks
forth in a song of praise. At the end of Romans 8, after his long discourse
on the wonders of Christ and of his salvation, he offers a beautiful song of
praise to God that concludes with these words: "For I am convinced that
neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present,
nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created
thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ
Jesus our Lord" (8:38-39).
At the end of chapter 11, after going through his discussion about how the
gospel is for the Jew and Gentile alike in God's sovereign purposes in the
unfolding plan of salvation, Paul writes: "Oh, the depth of the riches both
of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and
unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became
His counselor? Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to
him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be
the glory forever. Amen" (11:33-36).
At the end of chapter 16, after giving us wonderful instruction about how
the gospel is to impact our life and giving his final greetings to his
friends, he says, "Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my
gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the
mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is
manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the
commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations,
leading to obedience of faith; to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ,
be the glory forever. Amen" (16:25-29).
The power of the gospel is that we can be made new, we can be made alive.
Remember those four categories of settling for less than what God offers?
What the gospel does is turn those things on their heads.
In the place of despair, the gospel offers hope. I will not be forever
caught in the bondage of frailty and sinfulness. I can be set free. There is
hope for new, eternal life and real victory.
In the place of fatalism, the gospel gives joy, a heart of praise and wonder
that God has done something amazing to set us free.
In the place of humanistic pride, the gospel brings peace. I do not have to
get up tomorrow morning and prove myself again. I don't have to accomplish
something so that someone will pat me on the back so I can justify my
existence. God reaches into the turmoil of that rat race and gives me peace.
I am truly loved, eternally welcome in the presence of God.
And finally, in the place of religious pride, there is freedom. I don't have
to worry whether I'm doing enough for God to make the grade, whether I've
put enough money in the plate, whether I need to go feed the poor this
afternoon, or come to church on Wednesday as well as Sunday. We are freed
from that kind of bondage. God's acceptance of us derives from what Jesus
Christ has done on our behalf. Through him we are set free to just be who
God created us to be, fully alive in him.
In the last message we saw that faith means having the perspective of God's
sovereignty. Added to that, we can now see that faith means trusting in the
gospel of Jesus Christ, the power of which break the bonds of our sinfulness
and sets us free to experience the freedom of life in him.
Scripture quotations are taken from New American Standard Bible, ã 1960,
1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 The Lockman Foundation.
Used by permission.
Catalog No. 4672
Romans 1:16, 17; Galatians 3:10-14
2nd Message
Danny Hall
June 25, 2000
Copyright © 2000 Discovery Publishing, a ministry of Peninsula Bible Church.
This data file is the sole property of Discovery Publishing, a ministry of
Peninsula Bible Church. It may be copied only in its entirety for
circulation freely without charge. All copies of this data file must contain
the above copyright notice. This data file may not be copied in part,
edited, revised, copied for resale or incorporated in any commercial
publications, recordings, broadcasts, performances, displays or other
products offered for sale, without the written permission of Discovery
Publishing. Requests for permission should be made in writing and addressed
to Discovery Publishing, 3505 Middlefield Rd. Palo Alto, CA. 94306-3695.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 02:29:30 PM |
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On May 30, 1:13 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2007 19:50:20 -0400, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com>
wrote:
So he's Canadian? That explains quite a bit.
Aw. gee- are we Canucks supposed to cry now or later, fellah?
I thought you said you weren't going to post to me any longer. I guess
that was a dishonest claim on your part as well. I guess it's my
overwhelming charm that brought you back. LOL!
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 08:40:11 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Tue, 29 May 2007 19:50:20 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:27dp53p6grp5uors8hluetql3d58ffho9i@4ax.com...
ONLY as a LAST resort when ALL other attempts to subdue the
perpetrator have failed.
You are unbelievable! You are not an American. I am betting that if
you had wanted to be an American, you'd have moved South and applied
for citizenship.
But you are quite content to sit in Ontario and tell us all about how
things are EVERYWHERE.
So he's Canadian? That explains quite a bit.
"No Spam " is a "female."
Supposedly, a retired psychiatric nurse who needs a good
psychiatrist AND a regimen of meds.
She is another garden-variety psycho who remains undiagnosed and
untreated. Another testament to the failed public health care in
Canada!
john w
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
31 May 2007 01:05:14 PM |
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On Wed, 30 May 2007 18:40:11 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:
She is another garden-variety psycho who remains undiagnosed and
untreated.
Poor short-bus liar= johnnie- you KNOW you have no qualifications, so
stop trying to let on you can diagnose anyone.
Now sit down and take your meds.
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| User: "Rod" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
31 May 2007 01:14:56 AM |
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john w <johnw wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Tue, 29 May 2007 19:50:20 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:27dp53p6grp5uors8hluetql3d58ffho9i@4ax.com...
ONLY as a LAST resort when ALL other attempts to subdue the
perpetrator have failed.
You are unbelievable! You are not an American. I am betting that if
you had wanted to be an American, you'd have moved South and applied
for citizenship.
But you are quite content to sit in Ontario and tell us all about how
things are EVERYWHERE.
So he's Canadian? That explains quite a bit.
"No Spam " is a "female."
Supposedly, a retired psychiatric nurse who needs a good
psychiatrist AND a regimen of meds.
She is another garden-variety psycho who remains undiagnosed and
untreated. Another testament to the failed public health care in
Canada!
Another Weatherly lie.
john w
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
31 May 2007 02:52:35 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 31 May 2007 01:14:56 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
john w <johnw wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Tue, 29 May 2007 19:50:20 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:27dp53p6grp5uors8hluetql3d58ffho9i@4ax.com...
ONLY as a LAST resort when ALL other attempts to subdue the
perpetrator have failed.
You are unbelievable! You are not an American. I am betting that if
you had wanted to be an American, you'd have moved South and applied
for citizenship.
But you are quite content to sit in Ontario and tell us all about how
things are EVERYWHERE.
So he's Canadian? That explains quite a bit.
"No Spam " is a "female."
Supposedly, a retired psychiatric nurse who needs a good
psychiatrist AND a regimen of meds.
She is another garden-variety psycho who remains undiagnosed and
untreated. Another testament to the failed public health care in
Canada!
Another Weatherly lie.
You libel me again.
I gave my honest opinion.
You don't have to agree, but my honest opinion would not be a lie,
by definition.
A "lie", by definition, hating bigot, is "something you say that you
KNOW when you say it is not true."
Prove that I know that what I said about Elaine is not true.
OR apologize.
john w
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 12:09:03 PM |
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On Tue, 29 May 2007 16:23:29 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:
If you break into my home unannounced and uninvited, you will find out
about my "prudence."
We have a local dump in the area, thanks. I take my refuse there.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 12:09:29 PM |
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On Tue, 29 May 2007 16:23:29 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You are a psychopath, and you are a pathological liar.
YOU are not qualified to attempt to diagnose anyone, short bus.
Remember that.
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| User: "Rod" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
02 Jun 2007 11:31:18 AM |
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john w <johnw wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:54:06 -0400, wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
On Tue, 29 May 2007 07:39:18 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:
To purposely kill someone who invades my home IS right.
ONLY as a LAST resort when ALL other attempts to subdue the
perpetrator have failed.
You are unbelievable! You are not an American. I am betting that if
you had wanted to be an American, you'd have moved South and applied
for citizenship.
But you are quite content to sit in Ontario and tell us all about how
things are EVERYWHERE.
Making you an opinionated, narrow-minded, bigot.
And a hater.
Thats right john, I hate murder and those committing it. But in
honesty I have to tell you that the old testament does support your
view. If a man breaks into your home and you kill deliberately, his
blood will be on his own hands, God will hold you guiltless. However,
mans laws may not depending on the circumstances.
I still will not change my view. I will not kill if I have another
alternative.
And your eagerness to do so has gained my contempt...
Rod
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
29 May 2007 09:37:00 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 28 May 2007 14:06:39 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
Carl wrote:
"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:32jl53pnnjaestat44mt1c7620r4kstoo6@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 27 May 2007 16:22:31 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
john w <johnw wrote:
If a man breaks into your home and has a gun, is it wrong to grab
YOUR gun, return fire, and kill the man in order to defend your home
and your loved ones?
If that happens I am going to do all in my power to prevent anyone
dying. If wounding him is called for then I'll do that.
Oh, the hero who has been in that situation 10 times will tell us all
about the "right thing to do".
Well it so happens that I HAVE been in that situation. And the last
thing I was concerned about was shooting a madman in a "non-vital
area". If some whacko is coming after me to do me harm, then he has
put himself in that situation, and his welfare is NOT my concern.
You cowardly deal with a hypothetical you've never deal with before.
Even law enforcement will tell you, "don't worry yourself with where
to hit a perpetrator, and don't worry about "now, where can I best
place just ONE bullet?"
For law enforcement I believe the term is "center mass" usually the chest
area. A 9mm will do a pretty nasty job internally. Extensive training is
normally given to law enforcement officials in this area.
I am in agreement with you, someone claiming they would "shoot to wound" if
an intruder broke into their home and put their family in danger is not only
unrealistic and completely naive,
Oh pompous FOOL ! You don't know me or my mind well to make such
a stupid judgment of me !
It's a matter of conscience for me, not a badge of honor
screaming, "Oh goody ! Someone broke into my house, thats a threat to
my families welfare, now I can say they threatened my family and
legally take there life !" This opens a whole can of worms !
What you said was "I KNOW what I would to!" and "as a matter of
conscience" I'd.... You DO NOT know what you would to UNTIL YOU ARE IN
THE SITUATION.
In fact, I have faced certain death a dozen times, the last time
just a month ago. My actions and reactions were different every single
time.
The time I was faced with danger due to an intruder, I got my gun
before he ever even had a clue what was going on. In about 3 seconds
after I realized there was danger, I had a fully-loaded gun in my
hand, locked and cocked, and one twitch, and he would have been dead.
And AGAIN, the LAST thing I was concerned about was HIS well being!
If you violate MY space, you pay! period!
And what you are now suggesting is that YOU have "the right to your
conscience", but I disagree with your point of view, I DO NOT have the
right to my conscience!
And I DO!
Now
people like weatherly, having more faith in metal and gun powder
than the God they proclaim,
First I want to know where YOU get the RIGHT to give ME those two
choices!
You don't!
AGAIN, you are pretending that anyone with "the proper conscience"
agrees with YOU, not me!
AGAIN, I say, "I don't want to hear what you "WOULD DO." Get into
that situation, where there is gun handy, and if YOU don't get it, he
probably will!
And THEN Tell me what you did!
will be drooling in anticipation of
this kind of violence occurring.
And again, you are so full of CRAP, your eyes are brown.
You have no "conscience". You are a coward. So the intruder finds
your gun (or he's brought a few of his own, and after he shoots and
kills YOU, he devours your wife and your kids!
It' s not a matter of "trusting God." God gave us common sense, and
you aren't using yours!
Tell me Carl or John, where does the new testament tell you to kill
if someone threatens your family ?
Where does it say NOT to?
Any scripture you use -- ANY-- is your interpretation, and I know
THOUSANDS-- perhaps MILLIONS-- who disagree with you.
So your view is not The Truth! Your view is your view, and you are a
coward. Which some of us knew LONG ago.
john w
And please spare me quotes from
the old testament, as only those of circumcision are affected by it's
laws. Gentiles are under the new testament by Grace thru faith, so if
you accept Christ you are answerable by new testament standards. Show
me a teaching of Christ allowing you to kill someone for being a
threat to your family.
Show me where it is forbidden.
AGAIN sport, from the way you have misbehaved this past month or so,
if you thought you had any credibility, you don't.
john w
Rod
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Rod Eastman, a criminal and a liar |
31 May 2007 08:02:11 AM |
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Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter has a history of
I have a history of reporting crime to law enforcement. Rod
Eastman is a sick liar who publishes malicious libel because he
knows that he is not worth suing.
I even have a letter from Senator Helms regarding the matter that
I have put on the website http://www.jnahc.com/legal
All of this because the filthy trash Rod Eastman didn't have the
guts to walk as a Christian! The sick obsessed trash Rod Eastman
has even shown himself willing to commit criminal acts. (Durham
police IR reports 07-004454 and 07-072048)
Rod Eastman has a long history of harassment and stalking and
published threats. Rod Eastman is sick and obsessed and twisted.
Rod Eastman is showing everyone what the devil can do to a weak,
ignorant man who is full of pride.
I think anyone worth convincing can see the malice and dishonesty
from both Charles "Quartus" Stanley, Robert Sowle, and Rod
Eastman. You slime are clearly grasping at straws and lying
because you have an indefensible position.
These filthy, sick, obsessed scum repeatedly publish malicious
libel about me for REPORTING CRIME to federal authorities years
ago when I was the pro se plaintiff in a federal lawsuit.
These filthy trash like Rod Eastman have no problem with Stephen
Adams for actually trying to help real child porn publishers
avoid investigation.
The filthy scum Rod Eastman actually boasted of abusing his
little sister.
These false-christian scum have no problem being filthy
hypocrites and liars because they can't defend the stupid garbage
they believe against a real preacher.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
"That's factual; but not true."- deceiver Robert Sowle 2007
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| User: "Carl" |
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| Title: Re: Rod Eastman, a criminal and a liar |
31 May 2007 01:10:42 PM |
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"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:1lht53plvvd8kgus7s36opkfgv4od05f61@4ax.com...
Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter has a history of
I have a history of reporting crime to law enforcement.
Folks, Steve Winter has a long history of claiming to file police reports
which turn out to be false. Which makes me wonder, if he truly has been
filing so many police reports, all of which prove to be false and frivilous,
why hasn't Steve Winter been arrested for filing false statements. Because
if he hasn't then it's probably because he really hasn't filed as many
reports as he claims. Either way, it makes him a prevaricator
extraordinaire.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Rod Eastman, a criminal and a liar |
31 May 2007 10:40:37 PM |
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"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> spake thusly and wrote:
I have a history of reporting crime to law enforcement.
Folks, Steve Winter has a long history of claiming to file police reports
Documented criminal activity of Carl Mccaskey of Florida
saints@nettally.com
Some samples of the criminal complaints that I have filed against
Carl Mccaskey include: Durham police IRs 98-26609, 99-13333,
99-82433, 00-27821, and 00-34780
The following is from an old website. I still have the legal
documents that the file names refer to. The IR records that I
reference are part of the public record. Carl Mccaskey is a
sick, obsessed, false-christian liar when he denies his history!
Criminal complaint filed against Carl Mccaskey 4/9/98
nettlogs.txt This file consists of various logs of IRC harassment
by Carl Mccaskey which led to a criminal complaint being filed
with the Durham Police Dept [IR 98-26609] 4/9/98 against Mr.
Mccaskey with Nettally being listed as an accessory.
This file also contains an email from an admin at Nettally.com
stating his intent to support Mr. Mccaskey's IRC harassment and
his reluctance to do anything about his email harassment
fcas0604.txt This is a 6/4/98 FAX that was sent to the FBI and
Durham police regarding another harassing email believed to be
from Carl Mccaskey. This file will have various information
replaced with the * and the content of the email will not be
published here but was included in the original FAX.
This email was confirmed to have originated at nettally.com
per0611.txt This is the text of a 6/11/98 FAX that I sent to the
police and the FBI regarding an email that I received from one of
the trash at Net Tally who has been supporting Carl Mccaskey in
his harassment campaigns. The harassing email, fcas0604.txt, that
he deceitfully referred to in his email was traced to nettally by
the admins of the web/email site that was abused. Mr. Perrine has
now been given notice not to email here again and his email was
forwarded to abuse@cntfl.com.
mca0712.txt This is the content of a 7/12/98 FAX to the FBI and
the police etc. which was also emailed to Sprint and CNTFL abuse
depts. regarding the ongoing malicious harassment from Nettally
and Carl Mccaskey.
mca0713.txt This is the text of my 7/13/98 FAX to the police and
the FBI which contained an email sent to sprint and cntfl
regarding the ongoing harassment by wire from nettally. This is a
continuation of Durham police [IR 98-26609] 4/9/98 and many other
criminal complaints.
mca0713c.txt This is the text of my second 7/13/98 FAX to the
police and the FBI which contained an email sent to sprint and
cntfl regarding the ongoing harassment by wire from nettally.
This is a continuation of Durham police [IR 98-26609] 4/9/98 and
many other criminal complaints.
mca0925.txt This is the 9/25/98 log of another harassment by wire
incident by Carl Mccaskey. The low life trash running
nettally.com are knowingly supportive of Mr. Mccaskey's
harassment campaign
mca1217.txt This is the text of a 12/17/98 complaint emailed to
cntfl regarding additional IRC harassment from nettally.com. I am
deleting the content of the chat so as not to republish
Mccaskey's ramblings.
mca1217a.txt This is the text of an additional 12/17/98 complaint
emailed to cntfl regarding additional IRC harassment from
nettally.com. I am deleting the content of the chat so as not to
republish Mccaskey's ramblings.
mca1218.txt This is the text of an additional 12/18/98 complaint
emailed to cntfl regarding additional IRC harassment from
nettally.com. I am deleting the content of the chat so as not to
republish Mccaskey's ramblings.
mca1218.txt This is the text of a 2/21/99 complaint emailed to
cntfl.com and undernet.org containing the content of my written
statement to the Durham, NC police reported as Durham Police IR
99-13333 regarding this most recent denial of service attack from
nettally.com. I named Carl Mccaskey of Tallahassee, FL as the
suspect.. There were undernet IRCOPs aware of this incident as
well.
12/08/99 Durham, NC Police IR99-82433 Electronic Computer
Harassment complaint filed against Carl Mccaskey with one Mr.
Perrine named as an accessory.
8/08/2000 Durham, NC Police IR2000-27821 Electronic Computer
Stalking/Harassment complaint filed against Carl Mccaskey of
Tallahassee, FL. I provided the police with several IRC logs of
recent contacts as evidence.
10/03/2000 Durham, NC Police IR00-34780 Electronic Computer
Stalking/Harassment complaint filed against Carl Mccaskey of
Tallahassee, FL. I provided the police with IRC logs as evidence
Pastor Steve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
"That's factual; but not true."- deceiver Robert Sowle 2007
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Rod Eastman, a criminal and a liar |
31 May 2007 11:39:50 PM |
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On Thu, 31 May 2007 23:40:37 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote:
"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> spake thusly and wrote:
I have a history of reporting crime to law enforcement.
Folks, Steve Winter has a long history of claiming to file police reports
Un Documented alledged might of could maybe have I wish it were really criminal activity of Carl Mccaskey of Florida
saints@nettally.com. Well, I did file false police reports. That ought to count for something.
Above and following sentences corrected by BB
Some samples of the false criminal complaints that I have used to lie against
Carl Mccaskey include: Durham police IRs 98-26609, 99-13333,
99-82433, 00-27821, and 00-34780
<snip garbage>
Pastor Steve Winter
Deceiver Steve,
I corrected your sentences for you. Ain't I nice?
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| User: "Rod" |
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| Title: Re: Rod Eastman, a criminal and a liar |
31 May 2007 04:05:25 PM |
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Carl wrote:
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:1lht53plvvd8kgus7s36opkfgv4od05f61@4ax.com...
Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter has a history of
I have a history of reporting crime to law enforcement.
Folks, Steve Winter has a long history of claiming to file police reports
which turn out to be false. Which makes me wonder, if he truly has been
filing so many police reports, all of which prove to be false and frivilous,
why hasn't Steve Winter been arrested for filing false statements. Because
if he hasn't then it's probably because he really hasn't filed as many
reports as he claims. Either way, it makes him a prevaricator
extraordinaire.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Yes Carl, but in all honesty I did threaten to whip on him
twice and repented, whatever else he says, when he says I
threatened him he is being truthful.
Rod
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Rod Eastman, a criminal and a liar |
31 May 2007 05:52:53 PM |
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On May 31, 5:05 pm, Rod <kc0...@cableone.net> wrote:
Carl wrote:
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--S...@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:1lht53plvvd8kgus7s36opkfgv4od05f61@4ax.com...
Rod<kc0...@cableone.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter has a history of
I have a history of reporting crime to law enforcement.
Folks, Steve Winter has a long history of claiming to file police reports
which turn out to be false. Which makes me wonder, if he truly has been
filing so many police reports, all of which prove to be false and frivilous,
why hasn't Steve Winter been arrested for filing false statements. Because
if he hasn't then it's probably because he really hasn't filed as many
reports as he claims. Either way, it makes him a prevaricator
extraordinaire.
May God bless,
Carl
website --http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog --http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Yes Carl, but in all honesty I did threaten to whip on him
twice and repented, whatever else he says, when he says I
threatened him he is being truthful.
Considering how many times Steve Winter claims to have filed police
reports and considering the overwhelming number of them were false and
frivilous (perhaps all of them), one true report may be taken as yet
another false report by the Durham PD considering the source (Steve
Winter). I believe the fable of the Boy Who Cried Wolf comes to mind.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: Rod Eastman, a criminal and a liar |
01 Jun 2007 08:01:39 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 31 May 2007 16:05:25 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
Carl wrote:
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:1lht53plvvd8kgus7s36opkfgv4od05f61@4ax.com...
Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter has a history of
I have a history of reporting crime to law enforcement.
Folks, Steve Winter has a long history of claiming to file police reports
which turn out to be false. Which makes me wonder, if he truly has been
filing so many police reports, all of which prove to be false and frivilous,
why hasn't Steve Winter been arrested for filing false statements. Because
if he hasn't then it's probably because he really hasn't filed as many
reports as he claims. Either way, it makes him a prevaricator
extraordinaire.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Yes Carl, but in all honesty I did threaten to whip on him
twice and repented, whatever else he says, when he says I
threatened him he is being truthful.
Rod
In spite of the fact that you give every indication of being a very
unbalanced individual with anger and hate issues...
last I checked, it's not against the law to threaten to whup up on
somebody.
Cassius Clay (aka Muhammed Ali) used to threaten to "whup" everybody
who offered to whup up on him. He was never arrested.
john w
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| User: "Rod" |
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| Title: Re: Steve Winter, possible klansman |
31 May 2007 10:15:36 AM |
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Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter has a history of
Bible Bob said;
Steve,
Is it legal for you to have a firearm since you repeatedly manifest
your mental illness on Usenet? Is it true that the Grand Wizard won't
allow you to attend meetings without a gun? I think you put too much
starch in your hood and cape. Do you guys wear underwear under your
robes or do you wear nothing under them so you will be ready for your
next victim? Were any of the children in your child porn collection
black? Is it true that klan members are all impotent bi-sexual males
who like men, women, and children? Did you participate in the
November 3, 1979 Greensboro events or the Durham cross burnings? Are
you getting along with Danny Barrett and Virgil Griffin or are you
siding with only one of them? Which one is your drinking buddy? Is
Virgil the Jesus you talk about?
Is this true Winter ? Are you a klansman ?
Rod
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| User: "Rod" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
27 May 2007 07:53:51 PM |
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Rod wrote:
john w <johnw wrote:
If a man breaks into your home and has a gun, is it wrong to grab
YOUR gun, return fire, and kill the man in order to defend your home
and your loved ones?
If that happens I am going to do all in my power to prevent anyone
dying. If wounding him is called for then I'll do that. If wounding him
can prevent him from harming my family then I'll do that, but killing
is the very LAST resort. You cannot undo a killing.
Rod
--
Gal 6:7 Be not tricked; God is not made sport of: for whatever seed a
man puts in, that will he get back as grain.
Gal 6:8 Because he who puts in the seed of the flesh will of the flesh
get the reward of death; but he who puts in the seed of the Spirit will
of the Spirit get the reward of eternal life.
Gal 6:9 And let us not get tired of well-doing; for at the right time
we will get in the grain, if we do not give way to weariness.
Gal 6:10 So then, as we have the chance, let us do good to all men, and
specially to those who are of the family of the faith.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,
the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit,
and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is
greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in
himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he
believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
26 May 2007 09:09:28 PM |
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On Fri, 25 May 2007 15:04:14 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:
If we can be require to take up arms to defend our nation, we are
equally obligated to take up arms in our homes, to defend our
families.
Gun fetish AGAIN, perv?
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
25 May 2007 04:59:25 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 25 May 2007 19:19:06 GMT, (Michael)
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
In article <f378ss$i1f$1@news.utelfla.com>, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135e1nbb0ud88ae@corp.supernews.com...
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim wrote:
May God bless,
Carl
ah, another brainwashed christian moron.
At least he is gifted with a brain to be washed, and here you
have been railing and hurling insults and vulgarities against
a God that you say doesn't exist ! You want to discuss brain
washing and lameness, lets start with you ! What kind of
morons enter the christian groups and rail against a God they
say cannot, or does not exist ? What manner of idiot expends
valuable life force energy trying to shove disbelief in the
Christian God down our throats while all the time
whining and complaining because a christian
somewhere, sometime gave him back what he so generously handed
out to others ? It's because you're not in control of your own
mind, and looking for a fight.
We don't respect or want your lack of faith, or your stupidity here. Go
back to your own and wallow in your garbage to your hearts content.
Rod, I know that person makes you upset, but please remember Romans 12:17:
"Never pay back evil for evil to anyone"
Try to not engage in ad hominem attack. If you don't mind, I would like to
share something that helps me whenever I come across someone very
disagreeable, even disgusting in their posts that may make me angry -- step
away from the keyboard and stop for a short prayer asking God for calm and a
clear mind and the best words possible in which to respond. He has really
helped me in the past with disagreeable folks like this.
Good advice; however, do not also overlook:
John Mark 11:15* And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the
temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and
overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold
doves
precisely!
Jesus was no milk toast. HE was no "mild-mannered" limp-wristed
person. When it was called for, He got loud. When it was called for,
He used ad hominem. When it was called for (twice), He got VIOLENT.
IT has been said "He never fought back. When they struck Him, He
accepted the blows."
Elsewhere it says, "they tried to lay hands on Him", but He passed
through their midst untouched. He did not "lay down and allow Himself
to be victimized. In whatever form, He RESISTED.
He may even have resisted VIOLENTLY.
When it was His time, He went "like a lamb to the slaughter."
When it was NOT His time, He didn't go at all.
john w
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
25 May 2007 04:56:30 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:11:36 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135e1nbb0ud88ae@corp.supernews.com...
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim wrote:
May God bless,
Carl
ah, another brainwashed christian moron.
At least he is gifted with a brain to be washed, and here you
have been railing and hurling insults and vulgarities against
a God that you say doesn't exist ! You want to discuss brain
washing and lameness, lets start with you ! What kind of
morons enter the christian groups and rail against a God they
say cannot, or does not exist ? What manner of idiot expends
valuable life force energy trying to shove disbelief in the
Christian God down our throats while all the time
whining and complaining because a christian
somewhere, sometime gave him back what he so generously handed
out to others ? It's because you're not in control of your own
mind, and looking for a fight.
We don't respect or want your lack of faith, or your stupidity here. Go
back to your own and wallow in your garbage to your hearts content.
Rod, I know that person makes you upset, but please remember Romans 12:17:
"Never pay back evil for evil to anyone"
I've been doing that, and little by little, the light is shining
through. I'm severely learning disabled, and where it may take one
person seeing or hearing something once or twice, it may take me
hearing or reading something a hundred times before it "penetrates",
if it ever does.
It is also much more constructive if the person giving the lesson
is giving it in a pleasant manner. To have a person say, "Hey, John!
Stupid! Listen!"
Is not going to be received.
And there are plenty of evil people, demonic and just plain mentally
sick, who are HAPPY to bait us, and then say, "see, you LET me make
you mad!"
Try to not engage in ad hominem attack.
Right on! You aimed that at another. I will take it and apply it to
me.
I agree with this exception. I don't believe that we should be
coddling, or be nice to, the demonic.
And when we believe we are dealing with the demonic (walksalone,
Phar Lap, Liberatirus, SheBlew, ujb, Steve Winters, and others), that
is demonic in my opinion, and kind words are not effective, and I
believe counter-scriptural.
If you don't mind, I would like to
share something that helps me whenever I come across someone very
disagreeable, even disgusting in their posts that may make me angry -- step
away from the keyboard and stop for a short prayer asking God for calm and a
clear mind and the best words possible in which to respond. He has really
helped me in the past with disagreeable folks like this.
Well, bear in mind, as well, Carl, that we each have our own approach.
What might be sin for you might not be sin (willful disobedience) for
Bob Jackson.
I'd say hand out the advice freely and with prayer. But don't
necessarily expect the other to take things quite the way you do.
Example: I hear a lot of criticism of Billy Graham for his ministry.
"Why doesn't he.....?" Why doesn't he.......? Why does he......?
"I don't like how he......?" "He should .... more, and he should.....
less!"
God gave Billy a very unique ministry, unlike any other! I wouldn't
second guess Billy Graham. I would leave him with God with prayer!
He's not doing it this way or that way or the other way because God
has given Billy a different path to walk.
God bless!
john w
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
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| User: "Carl" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
25 May 2007 09:40:04 PM |
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"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:ucme535tn0it3tuf8d837a09ojvh2um5tp@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:11:36 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135e1nbb0ud88ae@corp.supernews.com...
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim wrote:
May God bless,
Carl
ah, another brainwashed christian moron.
At least he is gifted with a brain to be washed, and here you
have been railing and hurling insults and vulgarities against
a God that you say doesn't exist ! You want to discuss brain
washing and lameness, lets start with you ! What kind of
morons enter the christian groups and rail against a God they
say cannot, or does not exist ? What manner of idiot expends
valuable life force energy trying to shove disbelief in the
Christian God down our throats while all the time
whining and complaining because a christian
somewhere, sometime gave him back what he so generously handed
out to others ? It's because you're not in control of your own
mind, and looking for a fight.
We don't respect or want your lack of faith, or your stupidity here.
Go
back to your own and wallow in your garbage to your hearts content.
Rod, I know that person makes you upset, but please remember Romans 12:17:
"Never pay back evil for evil to anyone"
I've been doing that, and little by little, the light is shining
through. I'm severely learning disabled, and where it may take one
person seeing or hearing something once or twice, it may take me
hearing or reading something a hundred times before it "penetrates",
if it ever does.
It is also much more constructive if the person giving the lesson
is giving it in a pleasant manner. To have a person say, "Hey, John!
Stupid! Listen!"
Is not going to be received.
And there are plenty of evil people, demonic and just plain mentally
sick, who are HAPPY to bait us, and then say, "see, you LET me make
you mad!"
Try to not engage in ad hominem attack.
Right on! You aimed that at another. I will take it and apply it to
me.
I agree with this exception. I don't believe that we should be
coddling, or be nice to, the demonic.
I believe we should be as firm and solid as a brick wall when it comes to
opposing evil. But I also believe we should not succumb to the temptation of
stooping to their level either in regards to how they behave towards
Christians (i.e. - ad hominem attacks, slander, personal insults, lies,
etc.). It's easy to cry out "yer ugly and yer mama dresses ya funny" but
it's hard to stay focused on the points at hand and to respond civilly,
intelligently and scripturally. That's why I recommend that when someone
gets the blood pressure up too high and finds themself angry at someone on
Usenet (or some other computer communication method) to take a little time
to step away from the keyboard, do some deep breathing exercises and pray a
short prayer asking God for calm, peace and a proper response. In my case,
it works!
If you don't mind, I would like to
share something that helps me whenever I come across someone very
disagreeable, even disgusting in their posts that may make me angry --
step
away from the keyboard and stop for a short prayer asking God for calm and
a
clear mind and the best words possible in which to respond. He has really
helped me in the past with disagreeable folks like this.
Well, bear in mind, as well, Carl, that we each have our own approach.
What might be sin for you might not be sin (willful disobedience) for
Bob Jackson.
Well, I offer what works for me as something for others to try at least. I
can't see prayer being something that doesn't work for any Christian.
I'd say hand out the advice freely and with prayer. But don't
necessarily expect the other to take things quite the way you do.
I am not naive to think that everyone is the same as I. That's silly. But I
just know it's worked for me and it was suggested to me by a brother who got
it from another brother...and so on. It's not exactly an original
idea/method. :-)
Example: I hear a lot of criticism of Billy Graham for his ministry.
"Why doesn't he.....?" Why doesn't he.......? Why does he......?
"I don't like how he......?" "He should .... more, and he should.....
less!"
God gave Billy a very unique ministry, unlike any other! I wouldn't
second guess Billy Graham. I would leave him with God with prayer!
Yeah, but if something worked well for you and you had the opportunity to
share it with Billy, wouldn't you? If it worked for him for his benefit,
wouldn't that be a blessing for both of you? And if it didn't work for
Billy, even the effort, done in love would still be a blessing. Just a
thought.
He's not doing it this way or that way or the other way because God
has given Billy a different path to walk.
I think we are both expressing valid points, equally valid and true just
differently.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
26 May 2007 01:28:00 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 25 May 2007 22:40:04 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:ucme535tn0it3tuf8d837a09ojvh2um5tp@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:11:36 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135e1nbb0ud88ae@corp.supernews.com...
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim wrote:
May God bless,
Carl
ah, another brainwashed christian moron.
At least he is gifted with a brain to be washed, and here you
have been railing and hurling insults and vulgarities against
a God that you say doesn't exist ! You want to discuss brain
washing and lameness, lets start with you ! What kind of
morons enter the christian groups and rail against a God they
say cannot, or does not exist ? What manner of idiot expends
valuable life force energy trying to shove disbelief in the
Christian God down our throats while all the time
whining and complaining because a christian
somewhere, sometime gave him back what he so generously handed
out to others ? It's because you're not in control of your own
mind, and looking for a fight.
We don't respect or want your lack of faith, or your stupidity here.
Go
back to your own and wallow in your garbage to your hearts content.
Rod, I know that person makes you upset, but please remember Romans 12:17:
"Never pay back evil for evil to anyone"
I've been doing that, and little by little, the light is shining
through. I'm severely learning disabled, and where it may take one
person seeing or hearing something once or twice, it may take me
hearing or reading something a hundred times before it "penetrates",
if it ever does.
It is also much more constructive if the person giving the lesson
is giving it in a pleasant manner. To have a person say, "Hey, John!
Stupid! Listen!"
Is not going to be received.
And there are plenty of evil people, demonic and just plain mentally
sick, who are HAPPY to bait us, and then say, "see, you LET me make
you mad!"
Try to not engage in ad hominem attack.
Right on! You aimed that at another. I will take it and apply it to
me.
I agree with this exception. I don't believe that we should be
coddling, or be nice to, the demonic.
I believe we should be as firm and solid as a brick wall when it comes to
opposing evil. But I also believe we should not succumb to the temptation of
stooping to their level either in regards to how they behave towards
Christians (i.e. - ad hominem attacks, slander, personal insults, lies,
etc.). It's easy to cry out "yer ugly and yer mama dresses ya funny" but
it's hard to stay focused on the points at hand and to respond civilly,
intelligently and scripturally. That's why I recommend that when someone
gets the blood pressure up too high and finds themself angry at someone on
Usenet (or some other computer communication method) to take a little time
to step away from the keyboard, do some deep breathing exercises and pray a
short prayer asking God for calm, peace and a proper response. In my case,
it works!
If you don't mind, I would like to
share something that helps me whenever I come across someone very
disagreeable, even disgusting in their posts that may make me angry --
step
away from the keyboard and stop for a short prayer asking God for calm and
a
clear mind and the best words possible in which to respond. He has really
helped me in the past with disagreeable folks like this.
Well, bear in mind, as well, Carl, that we each have our own approach.
What might be sin for you might not be sin (willful disobedience) for
Bob Jackson.
Well, I offer what works for me as something for others to try at least. I
can't see prayer being something that doesn't work for any Christian.
I'd say hand out the advice freely and with prayer. But don't
necessarily expect the other to take things quite the way you do.
I am not naive to think that everyone is the same as I. That's silly. But I
just know it's worked for me and it was suggested to me by a brother who got
it from another brother...and so on. It's not exactly an original
idea/method. :-)
Example: I hear a lot of criticism of Billy Graham for his ministry.
"Why doesn't he.....?" Why doesn't he.......? Why does he......?
"I don't like how he......?" "He should .... more, and he should.....
less!"
God gave Billy a very unique ministry, unlike any other! I wouldn't
second guess Billy Graham. I would leave him with God with prayer!
Yeah, but if something worked well for you and you had the opportunity to
share it with Billy, wouldn't you? If it worked for him for his benefit,
wouldn't that be a blessing for both of you? And if it didn't work for
Billy, even the effort, done in love would still be a blessing. Just a
thought.
He's not doing it this way or that way or the other way because God
has given Billy a different path to walk.
I think we are both expressing valid points, equally valid and true just
differently.
I think you came around again!
;-)
I am suggesting-- absolutely pass on whatever you find works. I myself
have had to get the pride in check when I give my best advice, and
then notice that the person isn't taking it.
"That end result isn't up to me; it's up to the Holy Spirit."
And virtually any time we find "our feelings hurt" because our POV
wasn't heard or wasn't followed, we must ask ourselves how our
EMOTIONS got involved to begin with!
???
And as for your suggestion of passing on information to Billy Graham,
I haven't done that, but I have certainly stated my views to any
number of great scholars, and was THANKED.
So your point IS taken, and I WAS making A DIFFERENT POINT!
That looks like this:
John w = 1
Carl = 1
;-)
That is called "an equal exchange". Jesus said "love one another." We
just did, calmly, like two adults, trying to HELP the other guy, and
NOT just trying "to be heard."
James said, "correct each other in love." We've also managed to do
THAT!
Be well!
john w
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
26 May 2007 09:07:41 PM |
|
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On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:56:30 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I've been doing that, and little by little, the light is shining
through. I'm severely learning disabled,
--- yet you also claim to be so 'superior in your level of
edumacayshun; what a joke you are, Legion.
.
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| User: "Diogenes" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
25 May 2007 02:10:53 AM |
|
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Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message <135e1nbb0ud88ae@corp.supernews.com>
We don't respect or want your lack of faith,
That's because you don't want to face the inconvenient truth that your beliefs
are so violently at odds with reality, as illustrated every day by the type of
news clips that SheBlewHim posts.
or your stupidity here.
Can't stand the competition, eh?
Go back to your own and wallow in your garbage to your hearts content.
Too bad for you that what *you* want is totally irrelevant to the way Usenet
works. If you don't want to read posts you don't like, then don't. Nobody is
forcing you to read anything.
--
If I was in charge of the universe, St Jude's
Hospital for Children would not need to exist
Posted with JSNewsreader Preview 0.9.7.3338
[ Followup-To: alt.religion.christian ]
.
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| User: "Carl" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
25 May 2007 01:42:03 PM |
|
|
"Diogenes" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:46571891$0$2380$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
<135e1nbb0ud88ae@corp.supernews.com>
We don't respect or want your lack of faith,
That's because you don't want to face the inconvenient truth that your
beliefs
are so violently at odds with reality, as illustrated every day by the
type of
news clips that SheBlewHim posts.
Actually Christianity is not at odds with reality, Christianity is not
conformed with worldly things and you are unable and/or unwilling to
comprehend that.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
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| User: "Diogenes" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
25 May 2007 08:53:20 AM |
|
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Carl <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message <f37alt$jf2$1@news.utelfla.com>
"Diogenes" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:46571891$0$2380$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
are so violently at odds with reality, as illustrated every day by the
type of
news clips that SheBlewHim posts.
Actually Christianity is not at odds with reality, Christianity is not
conformed with worldly things and you are unable and/or unwilling to
comprehend that.
No, I am quite aware of that point of view, having championed it for over two
decades. I comprehend it, I just don't believe it. Christianity is at odds with
reality, meaning it has implications that are directly and unambiguously
contradicted by reality. It is not a matter of being above reality, it is a
matter of it being unrealistic. The hubris and insufferable conceit of
Christians that like to pretend everyone that disagrees with them is somehow
limited in intelligence and understanding is easily reveal | | | |
