The Power Of Faith

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"Carl"
Date:	24 May 2007 08:37:15 PM
Object:	The Power Of Faith

Faith in Jesus Christ is a marvelous thing. Something that frees us from the
penalty of sin. It is joyous and wondrous. Danny Hall writes about the power
of faith.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
THE POWER OF FAITH
By Danny Hall
One of the most frustrating things about being a human being is being a
human being! There are so many times when we just can't seem to do the right
thing, or think the right thing, or make the right decision. Even on our
best days there is always an undercurrent that isn't quite right.
About a week ago I came across a Dennis the Menace cartoon. A box of crayons
is lying on the floor, and there are drawings all over the wall. Dennis' mom
has put him in the corner. Dennis is saying, "Boy, I sure do wish life came
with an eraser!" Have you ever felt like that? So many times I have. The
good news is that there is an eraser. You just have to know where to look
for it.
This is the second message in a series on the statement in Scripture "The
just shall live by faith." This message will focus on the wonderful power of
faith. For the most part we'll study Paul's letter to the Romans, where he
uses this statement "The just shall live by faith" in his theme verses,
1:16-17. In order to understand this statement, we're going to do a quick
survey of the whole book of Romans, just as we surveyed the book of Habakkuk
in the last message (Discovery Paper 4671). Paul uses this statement as a
launch pad for all the rest of his discussion in the book.
Verses 1-17 of chapter 1 are the introduction of the letter, and it is much
longer than Paul's introductions usually are. It begins with powerful
statements about who Jesus Christ is. It talks of Paul's longing to come and
see the Romans and bring the gospel to them. It concludes with this powerful
statement of what the letter is going to be about in verses 16-17, and we'll
come back and study those two verses in just a moment.
In 1:18 Paul launches into a discussion of the plight of man. He talks about
the problem of sin and its downward spiral in life, about how we fail to
acknowledge who God is and give him the glory as our Creator and Lord. That
leads to all kinds of deterioration and destruction of the very moral fabric
of humanity. He spends the rest of chapter 1 talking about that.
In chapter 2 Paul speaks specifically to his Jewish brethren, who came to
believe that by the privileges given them by God as his chosen people, they
were special spiritually. Paul goes through chapter 2 and well into chapter
3 confronting that error. He reminds them that while they do have the Law
and all kinds of special privileges, and they are called by God to be the
conduit of his Messiah, to be the custodians of his truth and a light to the
world, they have abrogated that responsibility. They have become ingrown and
spiritually proud. Just as the pagans outside their nation have, they have
fallen short of what it means to be truly human, to be people who are alive
in God as we all were created to be.
But in 3:21 to the end of chapter 8, Paul gives us the wonderful news that
God has an answer for all the problems of humanity's sinfulness, whether the
pagan's or the Jew's. Paul builds a glorious exposition of who Christ is,
what he has accomplished for us, and how faith in Christ will help us. By
the time Paul gets to chapter 8, we are in a wonderful attitude of praise
and worship for the great salvation God has given us.
Chapters 9-11 have posed all kinds of difficulty for students of the book of
Romans. In these chapters Paul seems to be sidetracking into the problems
connected with the nation of Israel's being set aside as God's people and
the Gentiles' being "grafted in." But when we study our theme verses, we
will see that these chapters play an important part in the argument Paul is
unfolding as to what God is doing. It is directly related to what we learned
in the last message from the book of Habakkuk about trusting God and his
sovereign purposes.
Then in chapters 12-16, Paul finishes with a wonderful explanation of how
our life in Christ impacts us practically, day by day.
In summary, Paul is unfolding the glorious story of what Jesus Christ has
done for us and how it impacts our lives so that we are set free by him.
With that overview in mind, let's go back and look at our theme verses,
1:16-17:
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation
to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it
the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written,
"But the righteous man shall live by faith."
In these two short verses Paul has managed to compress an incredible amount
of wonderful truth. Let's try to unpack it as we look at the key elements of
the verses.
The gospel proclaims Jesus
First Paul says, "I am not ashamed of the gospel.." What possible reason
could there be for him to be ashamed of the gospel? Some have theorized that
perhaps Paul was a rather obscure preacher from an unimportant portion of
the Roman Empire, and he was now planning to go to the capital city of Rome
and begin to proclaim Christ in the face of the powerful might of Rome, to
enter the teeth of the lion, so to speak. He might have been tempted to feel
insignificant in the larger scope of things.
That could be true, but it is not at the heart of what Paul is saying.
Possibly what Paul is speaking of here is his realization of what the plan
of salvation looks like in its entirety. There is no other book in Paul's
writings where he is more passionate and positive about his own Jewishness,
yet brokenhearted about the unbelief of his Jewish brethren. "Paul," we want
to ask, "didn't God promise the Jews, your people, that they would be the
conduit of the Messiah? Aren't they God's chosen people? How is it that now
the Jews seem to be set aside in favor of the Gentiles?"
This hearkens back to Habakkuk. Remember, Habakkuk too was concerned about
the fate of the Jewish nation. God said he would raise up the Chaldeans
(Babylonians) to come in and discipline them. Habakkuk was aghast that God
would raise up Gentiles to discipline the Jews! He couldn't understand and
was actually angry and disillusioned with God. But God told Habakkuk to step
back and take in the bigger picture. The sovereign God of the universe was
working out his purposes, and Habakkuk needed to trust him.
In the same way Paul as a Jew might be tempted to be ashamed of the fact
that the Jews had failed, and that this church he is planning to visit is a
predominantly Gentile church, yet he, a former Pharisee, is the apostle to
the Gentiles! This might seem like a crazy plan to him.
But regardless of the reason he is tempted to feel ashamed, what Paul wants
us to realize is that he is not ashamed, because God is doing something
greater than either Jew or Gentile could ever imagine! God has done
something so significant, so wonderful, so amazing, that it transcends even
the distinction between Jew and Gentile. This is God's sovereign work for
the whole world, which he had always intended for the nation of Israel, now
fulfilled!
The second word I want us to look at in Paul's theme verses is "gospel." We
sometimes equate the word "gospel" with what we call the plan of salvation,
in other words a description of what we believed to become a Christian. But
that's not the way Paul uses the word "gospel." Paul is talking about the
proclamation of who Jesus Christ is--the Son of God, crucified, risen, and
reigning as Lord--the Savior. In the opening five verses of Romans he
writes:
"Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for
the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the
holy Scriptures, concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David
according to the flesh, who was declared the Son of God with power by the
resurrection from the dead, according to the spirit of holiness, Jesus
Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to
bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's
sake."
The gospel is all about Jesus Christ. It is the proclamation of Christ that
draws people to him, and the proclamation of Christ was at the center of all
that Paul was. In 1 Corinthians 2:2, where Paul is reflecting on his first
visit to the Corinthians, he reminds them, "I determined to know nothing
among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified."
The gospel is able to save
Paul then says about this gospel that it is "the power of God for
salvation." The word "power" is the great Greek word dunamis (from which we
have derived our word "dynamite"). That word simply means to be able. It
speaks of the inherent ability of the gospel to do what it's supposed to do.
Paul makes this same point in Galatians 3:10-14, which is the other place
where he quotes the statement "The just shall live by faith":
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is
written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the
book of the Law, to perform them." Now that no one is justified by the Law
before God is evident; for, "The righteous man shall live by faith."
However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "He who practices them
shall live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having
become a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is every one who hangs on
a tree"--in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to
the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through
faith.
Paul reminds us here, as he teaches in Romans, that there is no inherent
power in the Law to make us new or to change our lives. Rather, as the Law
directed us toward holiness in God, it would expose us as being sinful. In
contrast to that, Paul says that the gospel, the message of who Jesus Christ
is and what he has done, is able to save us. The gospel is where we can find
the "eraser" we're looking for. The gospel of Jesus Christ is how things can
be made new, as we trust in him.
One of the manifestations of our spiritual weakness as human beings is that
we tend to settle for less than what God offers. There are at least four
categories that we fall into in this.
Some people's response to their spiritual need is despair. "I can't change
anything. I'm awful. The world is awful. There's no spiritual hope."
Another category is what I call fatalism. "I'm not getting any better, and I
can't do anything about it. I'm just doing what I can." It amounts to
drudgery. There may be those days when an inspirational speaker or a crisis
helps people in this category to rise to the occasion for a moment or two,
so that things go better. But then they fall back into the rut of drudgery
again. A lot of us live this way.
A third category we might fall into when settling for less than what God
offers is humanistic pride. People in this category cling to accomplishments
or success to feel good about themselves. It may be in the arts or sports or
their profession. It may be in doing enough community service so everybody
will think they're the most wonderful person in the community. Maybe they
experience this through their children. There's a certain task where they
get a little more accomplished, and people recognize them for that. There is
nothing inherently wrong with that, of course, but some people settle for
that as if that were what life is all about--human applause. Every morning
they get up and run back to the rat race saying, "I've got to work harder,
write a few more lines of code. Maybe we'll go public in the next six months
and I'll be the richest guy on my block!"
The fourth category is religious pride. Some develop an attitude in life of
being the most spiritual person they can be to feel good about themselves.
Every religion, Christian and non-Christian, develops around its faith
system a set of beliefs about what a good Christian (Muslim, Mormon, etc.)
is. We have one in this church. If I were to ask you what a good Christian
looks like, certain behaviors and religious activities, "Christian" things,
which, again, are not bad in themselves, would come to mind: go to church
every Sunday, read the Bible every day, etc. But when we define ourselves by
how many good things we do and come to feel that these things are the
essence of life, then we've settled for less than God offers us.
In contrast to these lesser responses to spiritual need, Paul says,
indirectly in Galatians 3:10-14 and specifically in Romans 1:16, that the
gospel itself is the power of God for salvation. The gospel will give us
something far beyond anything we ever dreamed of. It's what will break the
back of all that despair, drudgery, or pride, whether humanistic or
religious, and set us free to experience the real life that God wants to
offer. The gospel tells us there is something more out there to be had!
There is something real, in relationship with God himself, by which we can
be set free from what holds us down, as we believe. This is the real power
of the gospel.
Life-changing faith
Paul goes on to say in 1:17 that in this powerful gospel, to everyone who
believes, the righteousness of God is revealed. There are basically two
positions on what he means by the righteousness of God. One is that this is
God's own moral quality of righteousness. The other is that this is the
righteousness of God that is given to us. Throughout the book of Romans Paul
actually uses this phrase both ways. Depending on the context, he emphasizes
one meaning or the other. In 3:21ff especially, he uses both meanings when
he talks about God's being shown to be a righteous and just God while also
giving to us his righteousness.
I think, however, that in this theme verse Paul is using the first meaning.
This display of the gospel reveals to us that God himself is a righteous
God. We might question his ways and motives at times, but the gospel, the
finished work of Jesus Christ, declares to the world that God himself is
righteous and he has acted justly in his world, even as he has acted
lovingly and wonderfully and graciously toward all who would believe.
Paul then says the righteousness of God is revealed "from faith to faith."
Now if you were to look up the phrase "from faith to faith" in a number of
commentaries on the book of Romans, you'd find umpteen different opinions on
what it means. The Greek text literally says, "Out of faith unto faith."
Sometimes the interpretation of this phrase is that it's intensifying or
emphasizing the idea of faith. Another interpretation points to the
progression of our walk with God; it begins with faith in Christ and
continues with faith in Christ.
But I'd like to suggest another interpretation. The Greek word for faith is
also the word for faithfulness, and depending on its context, it can be used
that way. For instance, in Romans 3:3, Paul clearly uses this word in
reference to God's faithfulness: "What then? If some did not believe, their
unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?" So, in this
case, I would suggest that "faith to faith" is a hinge phrase in Romans
1:17. The righteousness of God is revealed from his faithfulness to our
faith. That is, based on God's righteous faithfulness to fulfill all his
promises and accomplish his works, we place our faith in him. The powerful
gospel has revealed him this way, and as we encounter his wonderful,
transforming grace, the gospel comes home to us personally and powerfully,
changing our lives.
Real life
That brings us finally to the little statement "The righteous man shall live
by faith." Interestingly, Paul's quote from Habakkuk is not a direct
translation of either the Hebrew text or the Septuagint, the Greek
translation of the Old Testament used in Paul's time. Paul is basically
giving us his own paraphrase.
People have struggled as to how to translate this statement. It is most
often translated as we read it above. But an alternate reading, which you
may find in the margin notes of your Bible, is also compelling: "The just by
faith shall live." There are strong arguments in favor of each, but in light
of the whole course of the argument of Romans, I believe the second reading
fits better. Paul is saying to us, "The just by faith shall live." What he
is inviting us to recognize is that this powerful gospel he is talking
about, and which he is going to explain, gives us something more than just
some sort of new religion--it gives us real life. The pagans can try to find
life in self-indulgence or accomplishment. The Jews can search for it in
religious privilege as well as in the ethnicity, legalism, and social
structure that they have built. You can search for life in whatever you
want, but you will find life only in Christ. The one who is justified by
faith in Christ is the one who lives.
What God is offering to us is life that is outside of the normal human
experience. An interesting study for you to do would be to trace out the
word "life" or "live" in the New Testament using a concordance. The New
Testament concept of life is not mere existence. It is a special kind of
life, a life that is empowered by God himself. What Paul wants us to see is
that in the gospel of Christ, what has kept us in bondage is broken and we
are set free.
At the end of each major section of the book of Romans, Paul's heart breaks
forth in a song of praise. At the end of Romans 8, after his long discourse
on the wonders of Christ and of his salvation, he offers a beautiful song of
praise to God that concludes with these words: "For I am convinced that
neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present,
nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created
thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ
Jesus our Lord" (8:38-39).
At the end of chapter 11, after going through his discussion about how the
gospel is for the Jew and Gentile alike in God's sovereign purposes in the
unfolding plan of salvation, Paul writes: "Oh, the depth of the riches both
of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and
unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became
His counselor? Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to
him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be
the glory forever. Amen" (11:33-36).
At the end of chapter 16, after giving us wonderful instruction about how
the gospel is to impact our life and giving his final greetings to his
friends, he says, "Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my
gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the
mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is
manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the
commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations,
leading to obedience of faith; to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ,
be the glory forever. Amen" (16:25-29).
The power of the gospel is that we can be made new, we can be made alive.
Remember those four categories of settling for less than what God offers?
What the gospel does is turn those things on their heads.
In the place of despair, the gospel offers hope. I will not be forever
caught in the bondage of frailty and sinfulness. I can be set free. There is
hope for new, eternal life and real victory.
In the place of fatalism, the gospel gives joy, a heart of praise and wonder
that God has done something amazing to set us free.
In the place of humanistic pride, the gospel brings peace. I do not have to
get up tomorrow morning and prove myself again. I don't have to accomplish
something so that someone will pat me on the back so I can justify my
existence. God reaches into the turmoil of that rat race and gives me peace.
I am truly loved, eternally welcome in the presence of God.
And finally, in the place of religious pride, there is freedom. I don't have
to worry whether I'm doing enough for God to make the grade, whether I've
put enough money in the plate, whether I need to go feed the poor this
afternoon, or come to church on Wednesday as well as Sunday. We are freed
from that kind of bondage. God's acceptance of us derives from what Jesus
Christ has done on our behalf. Through him we are set free to just be who
God created us to be, fully alive in him.
In the last message we saw that faith means having the perspective of God's
sovereignty. Added to that, we can now see that faith means trusting in the
gospel of Jesus Christ, the power of which break the bonds of our sinfulness
and sets us free to experience the freedom of life in him.
Scripture quotations are taken from New American Standard Bible, � 1960,
1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 The Lockman Foundation.
Used by permission.
Catalog No. 4672
Romans 1:16, 17; Galatians 3:10-14
2nd Message
Danny Hall
June 25, 2000
Copyright � 2000 Discovery Publishing, a ministry of Peninsula Bible Church.
This data file is the sole property of Discovery Publishing, a ministry of
Peninsula Bible Church. It may be copied only in its entirety for
circulation freely without charge. All copies of this data file must contain
the above copyright notice. This data file may not be copied in part,
edited, revised, copied for resale or incorporated in any commercial
publications, recordings, broadcasts, performances, displays or other
products offered for sale, without the written permission of Discovery
Publishing. Requests for permission should be made in writing and addressed
to Discovery Publishing, 3505 Middlefield Rd. Palo Alto, CA. 94306-3695.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	31 May 2007 07:40:07 AM

On May 31, 3:37 am, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:

Reminds me of a local-- very popular DJ-- from about 15 years ago.
He was talking about the passage of time and how things change.

He said his son had come home from school and said, "Dad! You'll never
guess what I learned in Music History today!

" Would you believe that Paul McCartney was in a band before "Wings?"
I forget the name of it..."

Might have been me. I had a 20 year career in radio that started when I was
only 13 years old. Actually I kind of doubt it was me but it's pretty
coincidental that I had a similar experience that I spoke of on-air on
several occassions.

Actually, his name is Larry Nelson. But he may have just been telling
your story and personalizing it.

I imagine it's happened on numerous occassions. And for the record, I
never used "Larry Nelson" as an air name so it definitely wasn't me
you heard tell the story.

When I attended college at Florida State University, I was in a record store
looking through the vinyl lp's (records -- those flat circular plastic-like
things with grooves carved into them, for all you young whippersnappers)
when I actually overheard a kid say to his friend:

smirk. The only reason (I think) my son knows what LPs are is that I
gave him half-a-dozen LP collections years ago.

His grandparents have one of those portable LP players, which was how
he listened to the music.

My first record player was a little plastic GE record player that my
parents gave me when I was a kid along with one lp: "Snoopy's
Christmas" by the Royal Guardsmen. I played the title song over and
over and over and over....on Christmas morning until my parents took
it away from me and sent me outside for a while.

"Wow! Like...Paul McCartney used to be in a band called The Beatles or
somethin'..."

No kidding. I was there.

Well, I have been talking with kids on several occasions, and
mentioned the joke. And I have several times gotten the reply, "Oh,
that was , "The Beatles", wasn't it?"

I briefly taught public school in Georgia back in the 80's and used to take
great delight in freaking out the kids by knowing more about the music
artists they listened to than they did. I grew up liking all types of music
(with the exception of gangsta rap, death metal and their various
variations -- and I really hated disco back in the 70's) and thanks to
various relatives and different places I lived as well as visited, my
musical horizons are extremely broad and varied.

The types I don't like include Hip Hop, rap, and-- of all things-- I
don't like opera. (I can't understand the words, so I don't like
opera)

I don't care for most hip-hop but I have found a few hiphop recordings
that I actually like so I can't put it in the "I don't like anything
in that genre" category. Same with opera, although the extremely small
amount of opera I can tolerate and/or like is limited to mostly
Gilbert & Sullivan and Peter Schickele (e.g. - PDQ Bach). Since you've
demonstrated an accute sense of humor you might actually enjoy
Shickele's work with the fictional PDQ Bach. I suggest the "operatta
in one unnatural act" entitled "Hansel & Gretel & Ted & Alice." It's
quite funny. I know people who absolutely can't stand opera who
enjoyed this piece of silliness.

Anyway, I digress...

Larry Nelson said, "times like that, you feel so old!"

(I was trying to explain the "286" to my son awhile back. He listened
and then said, "so it was an early attempt at a computer?" Uh huh! )

286 with a 40meg HD, monochrome monitor (maybe VGA) and a 1200 baud modem.

lol! My first modem (that I recall) was a 360. ??
I FINALLY graduated to a 1200 and thought I had something!

Our first computer came with a 1200 baud but before we used it, a
person in the computer classes we were attending gave us a 2400 baud
modem. That was lightning sped for us then.

I occasionally am asked to repair someone's old PII computer with a
1200 baud modem. I just say, "call me when you get a computer!"

Heck, I learned DOS and BASIC on a Radio Shack TRS-80 with those huge
10-inch floppy discs (or were they 12-inch floppy discs...whatever) and a
monochrome green screen monitor.

Oh, my! Those were the days!
I recall one of the engineers I worked with at Boeing asked me...."I
keep hearing people ask for a color monitor. Why would you want a
color monitor?"

LOL!

I said, "I don't know about a color monitor, but I want the screen to
look like a sheet of typing paper."

The engineer said, "to do that, we will need a full-color monitor."

ROFL!

Which is PART of why the monitor is now full color.

It never occurred to the original inventors that the monitor should be
able to re-create real color!

I wonder if early manufacturers of television sets thought that way,
too.
May God bless you,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.

User: "Rod"
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	30 May 2007 10:59:36 AM

john w <johnw wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Tue, 29 May 2007 21:55:47 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

larry4355@adelphia.net wrote:

On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:47:59 -0400,

wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2007 22:24:19 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:

I respect your right to own a gun, I DON'T respect a man that kills
when it can be avoided, and I DON'T like GUN NUTS ! As for your
statements of my immaturity and naivity, at the age of 11 years old I
saw my mother murdered in front of me by a man with a gun.

Have you ever seen anyone DIE like that, CARL ???

I am so sorry to hear this. Rod. It must have been terrible.

Rod that is tragic, especially for a 11 year old to see. But it does
not prove your point. The man that killed (murdered) your mom, was not
defending his home was he?

My point is wasted on someone not recognizing it. THis conversation is
as an end.

You talk about others who get mad simply because YOU disagree with
them!

Now, you are getting mad at those who disagree with you!

I'm not mad at Larry, I'm tired and disgusted of putting up with the
pain and the effort of trying to get thru to others while dealing
with their attacks. It happens that Larry missed the point I was
trying to make, and I was out of patience. Pain has a way of doing that
to you.

It's called "control." You want to establish Truth, and anyone who
wants any must come to you!

You're building a fantasy in your head John, none of the words
you've put in mouth are mine. They are all yours.

Uh uh.

AGAIN, chum, you are INSISTING: "If you just UNDERSTOOD, you would
agree with ME!"

Not necessarily.

Perhaps--- just perhaps, it's YOU who don't understand!

You need to be locked up John. You are so damned nutty
that if it weren't in front of me I wouldn't have believed
it possible !
I was under the impression that Phar Lap was just trying to
make you look bad, but you really are nuttier than a peach
orchard boar !
Maybe one day you'll screw with someone just
as nutty as yourself and they'll part that cavity you call
a brain case with lead, and then you won't be making threats,
telling lies, and having imaginary conversations.
I'm going to do something about you John, you're just to screwed
up to run loose like you are.
Elaine, if you have any of Johns posts with him having conversations
with himself, please email them to me.
Rod
.

User: ""
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	30 May 2007 11:07:53 AM

On May 30, 11:59 am, Rod <kc0...@cableone.net> wrote:

Rod, this isn't "reasoning" with others as you clearly want others to
do with you.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.

User: "Merlin"
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	30 May 2007 11:35:44 AM

dear Rod <kc0...@cableone.net> wrote:

You need to be locked up John.

this is your witness to john of the revelation of jesus christ?
in love with the living gay jesus who teaches us to love and not judge
others for our own sake.
merlin
do you believe in jesus the hetrosexaul mean guy that hates people as
many on here say...
or the gay jesus of love?
christians used to own slaves, christians promoted segregation to this
day. christians started this false war in iraq. christians promote
the voilent torture of prisoners. what a world christianity is
creating so no one can inherit it in the shape it is now?
alt.bible, alt.religion.christian, alt.religion.christian.baptist,
alt.religion.christian.methodist, alt.christnet,
alt.religion.christian.pentecostal, free.christians
.

User: "john w"
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	30 May 2007 03:10:53 PM

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 30 May 2007 10:59:36 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

john w <johnw wrote:

larry4355@adelphia.net wrote:

On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:47:59 -0400,

wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2007 22:24:19 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:

I am so sorry to hear this. Rod. It must have been terrible.

Rod that is tragic, especially for a 11 year old to see. But it does
not prove your point. The man that killed (murdered) your mom, was not
defending his home was he?

My point is wasted on someone not recognizing it. THis conversation is
as an end.

You talk about others who get mad simply because YOU disagree with
them!

Now, you are getting mad at those who disagree with you!

I think you need to allow for other points of view.
You do not.
And merely because you're in pain does not give you license to call
those who disagree with you "non-Christians."
And if that is your view of "love", keep it!
You can argue from now til dooms day, it's still your opinion, based
on flawed reasoning.

It's called "control." You want to establish Truth, and anyone who
wants any must come to you!

You're building a fantasy in your head John, none of the words
you've put in mouth are mine. They are all yours.

Uh uh.

AGAIN, chum, you are INSISTING: "If you just UNDERSTOOD, you would
agree with ME!"

Not necessarily.

Perhaps--- just perhaps, it's YOU who don't understand!

You need to be locked up John. You are so damned nutty
that if it weren't in front of me I wouldn't have believed
it possible !

I think YOU are nutty!
But if you think your two cents will get me locked up, I invite you
to call the Seattle PD, and the "Seattle FBI", like Elaine claims to
have done!

I was under the impression that Phar Lap was just trying to
make you look bad, but you really are nuttier than a peach
orchard boar !

Because you don't believe people should be entitled to defend
themselves in their homes!
You are roughly a suit short of a full deck!

Maybe one day you'll screw with someone just
as nutty as yourself and they'll part that cavity you call
a brain case

Ad hominem! nasty business!
with lead, and then you won't be making threats,

telling lies,

What "lies?"
and having imaginary conversations.

I'm going to do something about you John, you're just to screwed
up to run loose like you are.

I am now sitting here in a puddle of yellow water!

Elaine, if you have any of Johns posts with him having conversations
with himself, please email them to me.

Why shouldn't we talk to ourselves? My self is pretty smart!
tsk tsk

Rod

User: "john w"
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	29 May 2007 09:59:14 AM

x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 28 May 2007 22:24:19 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

Carl wrote:

"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135mi7e4qckp75c@corp.supernews.com...

NOspam@no.spam wrote:
There is no living with a murder.

Defense of one's home and one's family isn't murder (unless you have a
different personal definition than is the norm). At worst it's justifiable
homicide, but in the overwhelmingly majority of cases in the United States,
it is allowable.

Carl, if a man comes at you with a pipe and doesn't stop, you can
take him down with a shot in the leg without killing him.

You stupid person. In the time it will take YOU to aim at and hit his
leg ONCE, you may well have emptied your gun.
In the time it takes YOU to aim at his leg and hit him ONCE, I can
have aimed at his torso or head (both bigger) and hit him enough times
to stop him.
AGAIN, your comments are SPECULATIVE AT BEST, and not realistic!
Those of us who have actually been there, know that you are puffing
smoke!
YOU, sir, are more interested in following your own arbitrary (and
silly) list of RULES than you are interested in survival.
If he comes at

you with a gun the choice has been removed from your hands. You have
taken what I have said completely out of the context in which it was meant.

I respect your right to own a gun, I DON'T respect a man that kills
when it can be avoided, and I DON'T like GUN NUTS !

Define "GUN NUT!" I am suggesting that you consider ANYONE who owns a
gun a "GUN NUT!"
Does it occur to you that you are so biased that you are not RATIONAL?
As for your

statements of my immaturity and naivity, at the age of 11 years old I
saw my mother murdered in front of me by a man with a gun.

And it was the gun's fault, right?
When I was in my 30s, I saw a man murdered before my eyes with a gun.
I wasn't turned off of guns. I ran out and bought a gun at my first
opportunity.

Have you ever seen anyone DIE like that, CARL ???

Yes.
And we're RIGHT Back to, "If you had seen the world I have seen, you'd
be 100 % behind me!"
Not necessarily!
Why is it that in your world, everyone who breathes must agree with
you?

I'm not feeling really generous towards you right now, so whether it's
the christian thing to do or not, you can take your opinions and your
guns and poke them up your butt ! And please, by all means squeeze the
TRIGGER !

There's the sort of tolerance for other views that would just make
Jesus so .... PROUD!
You are damaged, so we must all suffer for YOU being damaged!
"Well, when I was 12, I hit my thumb with a hammer! I hit it hard,
too! So I'm here to tell you that hammers are EVIL!
And if you don't want to sin (choose some arbitrary passage to use)
You won't ever use a hammer!
???
I don't think so!

Rod

User: ""
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	29 May 2007 10:54:46 AM

On Tue, 29 May 2007 07:59:14 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Define "GUN NUT!"

John Derieux Weatherly
.

User: "Rod"
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	29 May 2007 01:47:23 PM

john w <johnw wrote:

Carl wrote:

"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135mi7e4qckp75c@corp.supernews.com...

NOspam@no.spam wrote:
There is no living with a murder.

Carl, if a man comes at you with a pipe and doesn't stop, you can
take him down with a shot in the leg without killing him.

You stupid person. In the time it will take YOU to aim at and hit his
leg ONCE, you may well have emptied your gun.

In the time it takes YOU to aim at his leg and hit him ONCE, I can
have aimed at his torso or head (both bigger) and hit him enough times
to stop him.

AGAIN, your comments are SPECULATIVE AT BEST, and not realistic!
Those of us who have actually been there, know that you are puffing
smoke!

YOU, sir, are more interested in following your own arbitrary (and
silly) list of RULES than you are interested in survival.

If he comes at

Define "GUN NUT!" I am suggesting that you consider ANYONE who owns a
gun a "GUN NUT!"

Does it occur to you that you are so biased that you are not RATIONAL?

As for your

statements of my immaturity and naivity, at the age of 11 years old I
saw my mother murdered in front of me by a man with a gun.

And it was the gun's fault, right?

When I was in my 30s, I saw a man murdered before my eyes with a gun.
I wasn't turned off of guns. I ran out and bought a gun at my first
opportunity.

Have you ever seen anyone DIE like that, CARL ???

Yes.

I'll bet you have to......

And we're RIGHT Back to, "If you had seen the world I have seen, you'd
be 100 % behind me!"

Not necessarily!

Oh how will I ever reconcile myself to the fact that the world
isn't willing to kiss my tail end and pat me on my little bald
head ?? Oh, how will I cope with that ??
It isn't about ME, it's about saving lives ! It's about giving an
unrepentant man one more opportunity to do so. It's about following
Christ as closely as one can. That will be a little hard for you to
do Weatherly, in between killings perhaps ??

Why is it that in your world, everyone who breathes must agree with
you?

Pot Kettle Black......

There's the sort of tolerance for other views that would just make
Jesus so .... PROUD!

No, it won't make him proud. But will callousness and disregard for
the value of human life be more pleasing ?? You are such a self
centered cad that it is unreal.

You are damaged, so we must all suffer for YOU being damaged!

Thou arrogant FOOL ! This isn't about what I want for me, it's about
respect and reverence for life, and how you can't go back from a rash
decision when it isn't a good one.

"Well, when I was 12, I hit my thumb with a hammer! I hit it hard,
too! So I'm here to tell you that hammers are EVIL!
And if you don't want to sin (choose some arbitrary passage to use)
You won't ever use a hammer!

This statement above exposes your disregard for any life other than
yours and those close to you. Your callous disregard for the well
being of others is why psychological exams will one day be required
of potential gun owners as well as mental history and criminal checks.

???

I don't think so!

Rod

I'm not out to prevent everyone from gun ownership for protection,
but guys like you don't deserve to own a gun with such a selfish,
self serving attitude and callous disregard for others.
You argument comes from bias itself, as well as mine. And unlike me,
you have a tendency to lose control of your mouth, and have a tendency
to make death threats.
I will do my darned level best to make certain that you, John "short
bus" Weatherly, are never allowed to own a gun, pea shooter, tennis
racket, club, or water pistol for the remainder of your natural life
span, which might be considerably shorter if you run up against someone
just like yourself !
Do you understand this, Short Bus ?
Rod
--
Gal 6:7 Be not tricked; God is not made sport of: for whatever seed a
man puts in, that will he get back as grain.
Gal 6:8 Because he who puts in the seed of the flesh will of the flesh
get the reward of death; but he who puts in the seed of the Spirit will
of the Spirit get the reward of eternal life.
Gal 6:9 And let us not get tired of well-doing; for at the right time
we will get in the grain, if we do not give way to weariness.
Gal 6:10 So then, as we have the chance, let us do good to all men, and
specially to those who are of the family of the faith.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,
the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit,
and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is
greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in
himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he
believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
.

User: "john w"
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	29 May 2007 06:49:27 PM

x-no-archive: yes
On Tue, 29 May 2007 13:47:23 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

john w <johnw wrote:

Carl wrote:

"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135mi7e4qckp75c@corp.supernews.com...

NOspam@no.spam wrote:
There is no living with a murder.

Carl, if a man comes at you with a pipe and doesn't stop, you can
take him down with a shot in the leg without killing him.

You stupid person. In the time it will take YOU to aim at and hit his
leg ONCE, you may well have emptied your gun.

In the time it takes YOU to aim at his leg and hit him ONCE, I can
have aimed at his torso or head (both bigger) and hit him enough times
to stop him.

AGAIN, your comments are SPECULATIVE AT BEST, and not realistic!
Those of us who have actually been there, know that you are puffing
smoke!

YOU, sir, are more interested in following your own arbitrary (and
silly) list of RULES than you are interested in survival.

If he comes at

Define "GUN NUT!" I am suggesting that you consider ANYONE who owns a
gun a "GUN NUT!"

Does it occur to you that you are so biased that you are not RATIONAL?

As for your

statements of my immaturity and naivity, at the age of 11 years old I
saw my mother murdered in front of me by a man with a gun.

And it was the gun's fault, right?

When I was in my 30s, I saw a man murdered before my eyes with a gun.
I wasn't turned off of guns. I ran out and bought a gun at my first
opportunity.

Have you ever seen anyone DIE like that, CARL ???

Yes.

I'll bet you have to......

Yes, I have seen someone shot to death. While I was attending
Pepperdine U. I have referred to it in here several times.

And we're RIGHT Back to, "If you had seen the world I have seen, you'd
be 100 % behind me!"

Not necessarily!

Exactly correct!
And if someone breaks into my home, it's about me not trying to
figure out why he's there; I'm intent on saving my life.
It's about giving an

unrepentant man one more opportunity to do so.

Tell you what. He can repent if he survives.
AGAIN, you having NEVER BEEN in that situation, you're going to
PRESUME to be so foolish that you KNOW what you would do!
And if you are not man enough to defend your family, then you
shouldn't have a family!
It's about following

Christ as closely as one can.

It's about following in the way you best understand.
And all you are saying is that you understand better than I do.
And I reject that.
That will be a little hard for you to

do Weatherly, in between killings perhaps ??

???
You self-righteous BIGOT! You HATER!
I have never shot a single person in my entire life!
IN FACT, when I DID have an intruder, I pulled out my gun, and he
settled down. Was I prepared to kill him? You bet! But I didn't have
to! When I pulled my gun, he got very quiet.
I meant business, he knew it, and he settled down until the police
came and hauled him away.
So you see, you DON'T know! I pulled my gun, and last time I was
aware, he's still alive, bothering other people!
But he asked me a critical qusetion: Are you going to shoot me?
I told him, "take one more step towards me, and YES! I will shoot
you!"
He didn't take another step towards me.

Why is it that in your world, everyone who breathes must agree with
you?

Pot Kettle Black......

I didn't say you have to agree. I said you are trying to DECREE how
we must all behave!
I said you don't know how we should behave, because you haven't
lived it yet!
I have!
And I disagree with you on the best thing to do!

There's the sort of tolerance for other views that would just make
Jesus so .... PROUD!

No, it won't make him proud. But will callousness and disregard for
the value of human life be more pleasing ?? You are such a self
centered cad that it is unreal.

And you know me SO well over a chat line!
smirk.
You liberal limp-wrists crack me up!

You are damaged, so we must all suffer for YOU being damaged!

Thou arrogant FOOL ! This isn't about what I want for me, it's about
respect and reverence for life,

It's about your opinion being superior to all others! And it's
not! It's just your opinion!
and how you can't go back from a rash

decision when it isn't a good one.

I will live with that decision the way I have lived with all the
decisions I have ever made.

This statement above exposes your disregard for any life other than
yours and those close to you.

You are ridiculous!
Fine! Don't own guns! That is your choice! But don't interfere
with MY right to defend myself!
Your callous disregard for the well

being of others is why psychological exams will one day be required
of potential gun owners as well as mental history and criminal checks.

And if I don't agree with YOU, I have "callous disregard".
First of all, genius, it's "callousED disregard!"
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
john w

???

I don't think so!

Rod

User: ""
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	30 May 2007 12:13:04 PM

On Tue, 29 May 2007 16:49:27 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

moron johnnie-------
.

User: "Rod"
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	30 May 2007 08:36:26 AM

john w <johnw wrote:

Carl wrote:

"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135mi7e4qckp75c@corp.supernews.com...

NOspam@no.spam wrote:
There is no living with a murder.

Carl, if a man comes at you with a pipe and doesn't stop, you can
take him down with a shot in the leg without killing him.

You stupid person. In the time it will take YOU to aim at and hit his
leg ONCE, you may well have emptied your gun.

In the time it takes YOU to aim at his leg and hit him ONCE, I can
have aimed at his torso or head (both bigger) and hit him enough times
to stop him.

AGAIN, your comments are SPECULATIVE AT BEST, and not realistic!
Those of us who have actually been there, know that you are puffing
smoke!

YOU, sir, are more interested in following your own arbitrary (and
silly) list of RULES than you are interested in survival.

If he comes at

Define "GUN NUT!" I am suggesting that you consider ANYONE who owns a
gun a "GUN NUT!"

Does it occur to you that you are so biased that you are not RATIONAL?

As for your

statements of my immaturity and naivity, at the age of 11 years old I
saw my mother murdered in front of me by a man with a gun.

And it was the gun's fault, right?

When I was in my 30s, I saw a man murdered before my eyes with a gun.
I wasn't turned off of guns. I ran out and bought a gun at my first
opportunity.

Have you ever seen anyone DIE like that, CARL ???

Yes.

I'll bet you have to......

Yes, I have seen someone shot to death. While I was attending
Pepperdine U. I have referred to it in here several times.

And we're RIGHT Back to, "If you had seen the world I have seen, you'd
be 100 % behind me!"

Not necessarily!

Exactly correct!

And if someone breaks into my home, it's about me not trying to
figure out why he's there; I'm intent on saving my life.

It's about giving an

unrepentant man one more opportunity to do so.

Tell you what. He can repent if he survives.

AGAIN, you having NEVER BEEN in that situation, you're going to
PRESUME to be so foolish that you KNOW what you would do!

And if you are not man enough to defend your family, then you
shouldn't have a family!

Perhaps thats why you no longer have a family...

It's about following

Christ as closely as one can.

It's about following in the way you best understand.

Christ gets shoved to the side......

And all you are saying is that you understand better than I do.

I DO !

And I reject that.

Just like you reject hundreds of others that have tried to reason
with you, just as you also shoved Christ aside...

That will be a little hard for you to

do Weatherly, in between killings perhaps ??

???
You self-righteous BIGOT! You HATER!

You homicidal ***** !

I have never shot a single person in my entire life!

The more I read, the more I wonder.......

IN FACT, when I DID have an intruder, I pulled out my gun, and he
settled down. Was I prepared to kill him? You bet! But I didn't have
to! When I pulled my gun, he got very quiet.

Thank you for proving my point! Your statement above has made this
entire miserable conversation worth all the trouble! If a homicidal
maniac like you can exert some self control, the world will be better
off.
Acceptance of personal responsibility goes a long way. Now if the
other gun nuts here can follow your lead and control their itchy
trigger fingers and premature urge to kill we may save some
lives.
Rod
.

User: ""
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	30 May 2007 08:59:58 AM

On May 30, 9:36 am, Rod <kc0...@cableone.net> wrote:

john w <johnw wrote:

And all you are saying is that you understand better than I do.

I DO !

Maybe. Maybe not.

And I reject that.

Just like you reject hundreds of others that have tried to reason
with you, just as you also shoved Christ aside...

Just like you try to reason with others?

That will be a little hard for you to

do Weatherly, in between killings perhaps ??

???
You self-righteous BIGOT! You HATER!

You homicidal ***** !

And this is an example of your reasoning skills?
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.

User: "john w"
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	30 May 2007 11:10:41 AM

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 30 May 2007 08:36:26 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

john w <johnw wrote:

Carl wrote:

"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135mi7e4qckp75c@corp.supernews.com...

NOspam@no.spam wrote:
There is no living with a murder.

Carl, if a man comes at you with a pipe and doesn't stop, you can
take him down with a shot in the leg without killing him.

You stupid person. In the time it will take YOU to aim at and hit his
leg ONCE, you may well have emptied your gun.

In the time it takes YOU to aim at his leg and hit him ONCE, I can
have aimed at his torso or head (both bigger) and hit him enough times
to stop him.

AGAIN, your comments are SPECULATIVE AT BEST, and not realistic!
Those of us who have actually been there, know that you are puffing
smoke!

YOU, sir, are more interested in following your own arbitrary (and
silly) list of RULES than you are interested in survival.

If he comes at

Define "GUN NUT!" I am suggesting that you consider ANYONE who owns a
gun a "GUN NUT!"

Does it occur to you that you are so biased that you are not RATIONAL?

As for your

statements of my immaturity and naivity, at the age of 11 years old I
saw my mother murdered in front of me by a man with a gun.

And it was the gun's fault, right?

When I was in my 30s, I saw a man murdered before my eyes with a gun.
I wasn't turned off of guns. I ran out and bought a gun at my first
opportunity.

Have you ever seen anyone DIE like that, CARL ???

Yes.

I'll bet you have to......

Yes, I have seen someone shot to death. While I was attending
Pepperdine U. I have referred to it in here several times.

And we're RIGHT Back to, "If you had seen the world I have seen, you'd
be 100 % behind me!"

Not necessarily!

Exactly correct!

And if someone breaks into my home, it's about me not trying to
figure out why he's there; I'm intent on saving my life.

It's about giving an

unrepentant man one more opportunity to do so.

Tell you what. He can repent if he survives.

AGAIN, you having NEVER BEEN in that situation, you're going to
PRESUME to be so foolish that you KNOW what you would do!

And if you are not man enough to defend your family, then you
shouldn't have a family!

Perhaps thats why you no longer have a family...

There you go! You're losing your point, so you attack my family!
You are a coward!
Low blow!

It's about following

Christ as closely as one can.

It's about following in the way you best understand.

Christ gets shoved to the side......

And all you are saying is that you understand better than I do.

I DO !

And I reject that.

Just like you reject hundreds of others that have tried to reason
with you, just as you also shoved Christ aside...

That will be a little hard for you to

do Weatherly, in between killings perhaps ??

???
You self-righteous BIGOT! You HATER!

You homicidal ***** !

I have never shot a single person in my entire life!

The more I read, the more I wonder.......

IN FACT, when I DID have an intruder, I pulled out my gun, and he
settled down. Was I prepared to kill him? You bet! But I didn't have
to! When I pulled my gun, he got very quiet.

Thank you for proving my point! Your statement above has made this
entire miserable conversation worth all the trouble! If a homicidal
maniac like you can exert some self control, the world will be better
off.

Acceptance of personal responsibility goes a long way. Now if the
other gun nuts here can follow your lead and control their itchy
trigger fingers and premature urge to kill we may save some
lives.

Rod

User: ""
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	30 May 2007 12:26:29 PM

On Wed, 30 May 2007 09:10:41 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: permission denied
On Wed, 30 May 2007 08:36:26 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

john w <johnw wrote:

Carl wrote:

"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135mi7e4qckp75c@corp.supernews.com...

NOspam@no.spam wrote:
There is no living with a murder.

Carl, if a man comes at you with a pipe and doesn't stop, you can
take him down with a shot in the leg without killing him.

You stupid person. In the time it will take YOU to aim at and hit his
leg ONCE, you may well have emptied your gun.

In the time it takes YOU to aim at his leg and hit him ONCE, I can
have aimed at his torso or head (both bigger) and hit him enough times
to stop him.

AGAIN, your comments are SPECULATIVE AT BEST, and not realistic!
Those of us who have actually been there, know that you are puffing
smoke!

YOU, sir, are more interested in following your own arbitrary (and
silly) list of RULES than you are interested in survival.

If he comes at

Define "GUN NUT!" I am suggesting that you consider ANYONE who owns a
gun a "GUN NUT!"

Does it occur to you that you are so biased that you are not RATIONAL?

As for your

statements of my immaturity and naivity, at the age of 11 years old I
saw my mother murdered in front of me by a man with a gun.

And it was the gun's fault, right?

When I was in my 30s, I saw a man murdered before my eyes with a gun.
I wasn't turned off of guns. I ran out and bought a gun at my first
opportunity.

Have you ever seen anyone DIE like that, CARL ???

Yes.

I'll bet you have to......

Yes, I have seen someone shot to death. While I was attending
Pepperdine U. I have referred to it in here several times.

And we're RIGHT Back to, "If you had seen the world I have seen, you'd
be 100 % behind me!"

Not necessarily!

Exactly correct!

And if someone breaks into my home, it's about me not trying to
figure out why he's there; I'm intent on saving my life.

It's about giving an

unrepentant man one more opportunity to do so.

Tell you what. He can repent if he survives.

AGAIN, you having NEVER BEEN in that situation, you're going to
PRESUME to be so foolish that you KNOW what you would do!

And if you are not man enough to defend your family, then you
shouldn't have a family!

Perhaps thats why you no longer have a family...

There you go! You're losing your point, so you attack my family!

You have attacked lots of innocent people in here, old man
weatherless. Tit for tat.

You are a coward!

No, YOU are the coward here, short bus. I guarantee that if you EVER
met any of us face to face, you'd run with your demon's tail between
your slimy, bowed legs.

Low blow!

Well, you've delivered enough low blows, so you're in our shoes now,
old boy - how do you like the fit?

It's about following

Christ as closely as one can.

It's about following in the way you best understand.

Christ gets shoved to the side......

And all you are saying is that you understand better than I do.

I DO !

And I reject that.

Just like you reject hundreds of others that have tried to reason
with you, just as you also shoved Christ aside...

That will be a little hard for you to

do Weatherly, in between killings perhaps ??

???
You self-righteous BIGOT! You HATER!

You homicidal ***** !

I have never shot a single person in my entire life!

The more I read, the more I wonder.......

IN FACT, when I DID have an intruder, I pulled out my gun, and he
settled down. Was I prepared to kill him? You bet! But I didn't have
to! When I pulled my gun, he got very quiet.

Thank you for proving my point! Your statement above has made this
entire miserable conversation worth all the trouble! If a homicidal
maniac like you can exert some self control, the world will be better
off.

Acceptance of personal responsibility goes a long way. Now if the
other gun nuts here can follow your lead and control their itchy
trigger fingers and premature urge to kill we may save some
lives.

Rod

User: "Rod"
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	30 May 2007 11:57:36 AM

john w <johnw wrote:

Carl wrote:

"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135mi7e4qckp75c@corp.supernews.com...

NOspam@no.spam wrote:
There is no living with a murder.

Carl, if a man comes at you with a pipe and doesn't stop, you can
take him down with a shot in the leg without killing him.

You stupid person. In the time it will take YOU to aim at and hit his
leg ONCE, you may well have emptied your gun.

In the time it takes YOU to aim at his leg and hit him ONCE, I can
have aimed at his torso or head (both bigger) and hit him enough times
to stop him.

AGAIN, your comments are SPECULATIVE AT BEST, and not realistic!
Those of us who have actually been there, know that you are puffing
smoke!

YOU, sir, are more interested in following your own arbitrary (and
silly) list of RULES than you are interested in survival.

If he comes at

Define "GUN NUT!" I am suggesting that you consider ANYONE who owns a
gun a "GUN NUT!"

Does it occur to you that you are so biased that you are not RATIONAL?

No. I believe it was from the shock of watching you have a
conversation with yourself in a reply to me. I had thought
about interrupting the conversation you were having with
yourself, but I finally decided that I had bought the ticket,
I may as well watch the show....
Is there any beer in fridge ?

As for your

statements of my immaturity and naivity, at the age of 11 years old I
saw my mother murdered in front of me by a man with a gun.

And it was the gun's fault, right?

When I was in my 30s, I saw a man murdered before my eyes with a gun.
I wasn't turned off of guns. I ran out and bought a gun at my first
opportunity.

I can just imagine. This is great stuff ! That incident didn't
arouse you sexually, did it ? I mean, I've read articles about
would be serial killers getting sexually aroused by crimes like
the one you witnessed, and having a strange sexual relationship
with their handguns....

Have you ever seen anyone DIE like that, CARL ???

Yes.

I'll bet you have to......

Yes, I have seen someone shot to death. While I was attending
Pepperdine U. I have referred to it in here several times.

Sorry, I must have missed that one.....

And we're RIGHT Back to, "If you had seen the world I have seen, you'd
be 100 % behind me!"

By all means, continue without me......

Not necessarily!

Exactly correct!

And if someone breaks into my home, it's about me not trying to
figure out why he's there; I'm intent on saving my life.

It's about giving an

unrepentant man one more opportunity to do so.

Tell you what. He can repent if he survives.

AGAIN, you having NEVER BEEN in that situation, you're going to
PRESUME to be so foolish that you KNOW what you would do!

And if you are not man enough to defend your family, then you
shouldn't have a family!

It's about following

Christ as closely as one can.

It's about following in the way you best understand.
And all you are saying is that you understand better than I do.

And I reject that.

That will be a little hard for you to

do Weatherly, in between killings perhaps ??

???
You self-righteous BIGOT! You HATER!
I have never shot a single person in my entire life!

Yea, I am bigoted in this respect and plan to stay that way..
Allow me to quote you from above;

When I was in my 30s, I saw a man murdered before my eyes with a
gun. I wasn't turned off of guns. I ran out and bought a gun at my
first opportunity.

Does this tell anyone anything ???

IN FACT, when I DID have an intruder, I pulled out my gun, and he
settled down. Was I prepared to kill him? You bet! But I didn't have
to! When I pulled my gun, he got very quiet.

I meant business, he knew it, and he settled down until the police
came and hauled him away.

So you see, you DON'T know! I pulled my gun, and last time I was
aware, he's still alive, bothering other people!

That is right, you don't know ! And the situation is compounded
when the thief / home invader finds that he is confronted by a
man with a gun that has conversations with himself.
Insanity is unpredictable.

But he asked me a critical qusetion: Are you going to shoot me?
I told him, "take one more step towards me, and YES! I will shoot
you!"

He didn't take another step towards me.

Why is it that in your world, everyone who breathes must agree with
you?

Pot Kettle Black......

Okay. At this point I have to guess who you r having the
conversation with, and I think it is you again...
The pot kettle black is mine...
The rest is you...
Is their any beer in the fridge ?? Halfway into the show
and I'm missing the better parts.......

There's the sort of tolerance for other views that would just make
Jesus so .... PROUD!

Shocking, isn't it ? That someone could have a view as narrow as
your own ??

No, it won't make him proud. But will callousness and disregard for
the value of human life be more pleasing ?? You are such a self
centered cad that it is unreal.

And you know me SO well over a chat line!

Yes, and I'm glad you're in Washington......

smirk.

You liberal limp-wrists crack me up!

You crack yourself up........

You are damaged, so we must all suffer for YOU being damaged!

Thou arrogant FOOL ! This isn't about what I want for me, it's about
respect and reverence for life,

It's about your opinion being superior to all others! And it's
not! It's just your opinion!

and how you can't go back from a rash

decision when it isn't a good one.

I will live with that decision the way I have lived with all the
decisions I have ever made.

But someone else will die. You're far to unstable to be allowed to
make that decision.

"Well, when I was 12, I hit my thumb with a hammer! I hit it hard,
too! So I'm here to tell you that hammers are EVIL!

No...YOU are evil, and insane as well.

And if you don't want to sin (choose some arbitrary passage to use)
You won't ever use a hammer!

This statement above exposes your disregard for any life other than
yours and those close to you.

You are ridiculous!
Fine! Don't own guns! That is your choice! But don't interfere
with MY right to defend myself!

You're fricking nuts, I AM going to interfere with your attraction to
violence whether you like it or not ! I'm going to shove up your butt
and back down your throat, you psychological miscreant ! Then you're
going to be FORCED into treatment, and locked away in a padded cell
with all the rubber guns you can handle !

Your callous disregard for the well

being of others is why psychological exams will one day be required
of potential gun owners as well as mental history and criminal checks.

And if I don't agree with YOU, I have "callous disregard".
First of all, genius, it's "callousED disregard!"

It's amazing, you can complain about my misuse of the english
language but not think twice about taking a life.
It's plain to see where your priorities lie.
Rod
.

User: "john w"
Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith	30 May 2007 08:55:53 PM

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 30 May 2007 11:57:36 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
� 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

john w <johnw wrote:

Carl wrote:

"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135mi7e4qckp75c@corp.supernews.com...

NOspam@no.spam wrote:
There is no living with a murder.

Carl, if a man comes at you with a pipe and doesn't stop, you can
take him down with a shot in the leg without killing him.

You stupid person. In the time it will take YOU to aim at and hit his
leg ONCE, you may well have emptied your gun.

In the time it takes YOU to aim at his leg and hit him ONCE, I can
have aimed at his torso or head (both bigger) and hit him enough times
to stop him.

AGAIN, your comments are SPECULATIVE AT BEST, and not realistic!
Those of us who have actually been there, know that you are puffing
smoke!

YOU, sir, are more interested in following your own arbitrary (and
silly) list of RULES than you are interested in survival.

If he comes at

Define "GUN NUT!" I am suggesting that you consider ANYONE who owns a
gun a "GUN NUT!"

Does it occur to you that you are so biased that you are not RATIONAL?

As for your

statements of my immaturity and naivity, at the age of 11 years old I
saw my mother murdered in front of me by a man with a gun.

And it was the gun's fault, right?

When I was in my 30s, I saw a man murdered before my eyes with a gun.
I wasn't turned off of guns. I ran out and bought a gun at my first
opportunity.