| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Carl" |
| Date: |
24 May 2007 08:37:15 PM |
| Object: |
The Power Of Faith |
Faith in Jesus Christ is a marvelous thing. Something that frees us from the
penalty of sin. It is joyous and wondrous. Danny Hall writes about the power
of faith.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
THE POWER OF FAITH
By Danny Hall
One of the most frustrating things about being a human being is being a
human being! There are so many times when we just can't seem to do the right
thing, or think the right thing, or make the right decision. Even on our
best days there is always an undercurrent that isn't quite right.
About a week ago I came across a Dennis the Menace cartoon. A box of crayons
is lying on the floor, and there are drawings all over the wall. Dennis' mom
has put him in the corner. Dennis is saying, "Boy, I sure do wish life came
with an eraser!" Have you ever felt like that? So many times I have. The
good news is that there is an eraser. You just have to know where to look
for it.
This is the second message in a series on the statement in Scripture "The
just shall live by faith." This message will focus on the wonderful power of
faith. For the most part we'll study Paul's letter to the Romans, where he
uses this statement "The just shall live by faith" in his theme verses,
1:16-17. In order to understand this statement, we're going to do a quick
survey of the whole book of Romans, just as we surveyed the book of Habakkuk
in the last message (Discovery Paper 4671). Paul uses this statement as a
launch pad for all the rest of his discussion in the book.
Verses 1-17 of chapter 1 are the introduction of the letter, and it is much
longer than Paul's introductions usually are. It begins with powerful
statements about who Jesus Christ is. It talks of Paul's longing to come and
see the Romans and bring the gospel to them. It concludes with this powerful
statement of what the letter is going to be about in verses 16-17, and we'll
come back and study those two verses in just a moment.
In 1:18 Paul launches into a discussion of the plight of man. He talks about
the problem of sin and its downward spiral in life, about how we fail to
acknowledge who God is and give him the glory as our Creator and Lord. That
leads to all kinds of deterioration and destruction of the very moral fabric
of humanity. He spends the rest of chapter 1 talking about that.
In chapter 2 Paul speaks specifically to his Jewish brethren, who came to
believe that by the privileges given them by God as his chosen people, they
were special spiritually. Paul goes through chapter 2 and well into chapter
3 confronting that error. He reminds them that while they do have the Law
and all kinds of special privileges, and they are called by God to be the
conduit of his Messiah, to be the custodians of his truth and a light to the
world, they have abrogated that responsibility. They have become ingrown and
spiritually proud. Just as the pagans outside their nation have, they have
fallen short of what it means to be truly human, to be people who are alive
in God as we all were created to be.
But in 3:21 to the end of chapter 8, Paul gives us the wonderful news that
God has an answer for all the problems of humanity's sinfulness, whether the
pagan's or the Jew's. Paul builds a glorious exposition of who Christ is,
what he has accomplished for us, and how faith in Christ will help us. By
the time Paul gets to chapter 8, we are in a wonderful attitude of praise
and worship for the great salvation God has given us.
Chapters 9-11 have posed all kinds of difficulty for students of the book of
Romans. In these chapters Paul seems to be sidetracking into the problems
connected with the nation of Israel's being set aside as God's people and
the Gentiles' being "grafted in." But when we study our theme verses, we
will see that these chapters play an important part in the argument Paul is
unfolding as to what God is doing. It is directly related to what we learned
in the last message from the book of Habakkuk about trusting God and his
sovereign purposes.
Then in chapters 12-16, Paul finishes with a wonderful explanation of how
our life in Christ impacts us practically, day by day.
In summary, Paul is unfolding the glorious story of what Jesus Christ has
done for us and how it impacts our lives so that we are set free by him.
With that overview in mind, let's go back and look at our theme verses,
1:16-17:
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation
to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it
the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written,
"But the righteous man shall live by faith."
In these two short verses Paul has managed to compress an incredible amount
of wonderful truth. Let's try to unpack it as we look at the key elements of
the verses.
The gospel proclaims Jesus
First Paul says, "I am not ashamed of the gospel.." What possible reason
could there be for him to be ashamed of the gospel? Some have theorized that
perhaps Paul was a rather obscure preacher from an unimportant portion of
the Roman Empire, and he was now planning to go to the capital city of Rome
and begin to proclaim Christ in the face of the powerful might of Rome, to
enter the teeth of the lion, so to speak. He might have been tempted to feel
insignificant in the larger scope of things.
That could be true, but it is not at the heart of what Paul is saying.
Possibly what Paul is speaking of here is his realization of what the plan
of salvation looks like in its entirety. There is no other book in Paul's
writings where he is more passionate and positive about his own Jewishness,
yet brokenhearted about the unbelief of his Jewish brethren. "Paul," we want
to ask, "didn't God promise the Jews, your people, that they would be the
conduit of the Messiah? Aren't they God's chosen people? How is it that now
the Jews seem to be set aside in favor of the Gentiles?"
This hearkens back to Habakkuk. Remember, Habakkuk too was concerned about
the fate of the Jewish nation. God said he would raise up the Chaldeans
(Babylonians) to come in and discipline them. Habakkuk was aghast that God
would raise up Gentiles to discipline the Jews! He couldn't understand and
was actually angry and disillusioned with God. But God told Habakkuk to step
back and take in the bigger picture. The sovereign God of the universe was
working out his purposes, and Habakkuk needed to trust him.
In the same way Paul as a Jew might be tempted to be ashamed of the fact
that the Jews had failed, and that this church he is planning to visit is a
predominantly Gentile church, yet he, a former Pharisee, is the apostle to
the Gentiles! This might seem like a crazy plan to him.
But regardless of the reason he is tempted to feel ashamed, what Paul wants
us to realize is that he is not ashamed, because God is doing something
greater than either Jew or Gentile could ever imagine! God has done
something so significant, so wonderful, so amazing, that it transcends even
the distinction between Jew and Gentile. This is God's sovereign work for
the whole world, which he had always intended for the nation of Israel, now
fulfilled!
The second word I want us to look at in Paul's theme verses is "gospel." We
sometimes equate the word "gospel" with what we call the plan of salvation,
in other words a description of what we believed to become a Christian. But
that's not the way Paul uses the word "gospel." Paul is talking about the
proclamation of who Jesus Christ is--the Son of God, crucified, risen, and
reigning as Lord--the Savior. In the opening five verses of Romans he
writes:
"Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for
the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the
holy Scriptures, concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David
according to the flesh, who was declared the Son of God with power by the
resurrection from the dead, according to the spirit of holiness, Jesus
Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to
bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's
sake."
The gospel is all about Jesus Christ. It is the proclamation of Christ that
draws people to him, and the proclamation of Christ was at the center of all
that Paul was. In 1 Corinthians 2:2, where Paul is reflecting on his first
visit to the Corinthians, he reminds them, "I determined to know nothing
among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified."
The gospel is able to save
Paul then says about this gospel that it is "the power of God for
salvation." The word "power" is the great Greek word dunamis (from which we
have derived our word "dynamite"). That word simply means to be able. It
speaks of the inherent ability of the gospel to do what it's supposed to do.
Paul makes this same point in Galatians 3:10-14, which is the other place
where he quotes the statement "The just shall live by faith":
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is
written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the
book of the Law, to perform them." Now that no one is justified by the Law
before God is evident; for, "The righteous man shall live by faith."
However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "He who practices them
shall live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having
become a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is every one who hangs on
a tree"--in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to
the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through
faith.
Paul reminds us here, as he teaches in Romans, that there is no inherent
power in the Law to make us new or to change our lives. Rather, as the Law
directed us toward holiness in God, it would expose us as being sinful. In
contrast to that, Paul says that the gospel, the message of who Jesus Christ
is and what he has done, is able to save us. The gospel is where we can find
the "eraser" we're looking for. The gospel of Jesus Christ is how things can
be made new, as we trust in him.
One of the manifestations of our spiritual weakness as human beings is that
we tend to settle for less than what God offers. There are at least four
categories that we fall into in this.
Some people's response to their spiritual need is despair. "I can't change
anything. I'm awful. The world is awful. There's no spiritual hope."
Another category is what I call fatalism. "I'm not getting any better, and I
can't do anything about it. I'm just doing what I can." It amounts to
drudgery. There may be those days when an inspirational speaker or a crisis
helps people in this category to rise to the occasion for a moment or two,
so that things go better. But then they fall back into the rut of drudgery
again. A lot of us live this way.
A third category we might fall into when settling for less than what God
offers is humanistic pride. People in this category cling to accomplishments
or success to feel good about themselves. It may be in the arts or sports or
their profession. It may be in doing enough community service so everybody
will think they're the most wonderful person in the community. Maybe they
experience this through their children. There's a certain task where they
get a little more accomplished, and people recognize them for that. There is
nothing inherently wrong with that, of course, but some people settle for
that as if that were what life is all about--human applause. Every morning
they get up and run back to the rat race saying, "I've got to work harder,
write a few more lines of code. Maybe we'll go public in the next six months
and I'll be the richest guy on my block!"
The fourth category is religious pride. Some develop an attitude in life of
being the most spiritual person they can be to feel good about themselves.
Every religion, Christian and non-Christian, develops around its faith
system a set of beliefs about what a good Christian (Muslim, Mormon, etc.)
is. We have one in this church. If I were to ask you what a good Christian
looks like, certain behaviors and religious activities, "Christian" things,
which, again, are not bad in themselves, would come to mind: go to church
every Sunday, read the Bible every day, etc. But when we define ourselves by
how many good things we do and come to feel that these things are the
essence of life, then we've settled for less than God offers us.
In contrast to these lesser responses to spiritual need, Paul says,
indirectly in Galatians 3:10-14 and specifically in Romans 1:16, that the
gospel itself is the power of God for salvation. The gospel will give us
something far beyond anything we ever dreamed of. It's what will break the
back of all that despair, drudgery, or pride, whether humanistic or
religious, and set us free to experience the real life that God wants to
offer. The gospel tells us there is something more out there to be had!
There is something real, in relationship with God himself, by which we can
be set free from what holds us down, as we believe. This is the real power
of the gospel.
Life-changing faith
Paul goes on to say in 1:17 that in this powerful gospel, to everyone who
believes, the righteousness of God is revealed. There are basically two
positions on what he means by the righteousness of God. One is that this is
God's own moral quality of righteousness. The other is that this is the
righteousness of God that is given to us. Throughout the book of Romans Paul
actually uses this phrase both ways. Depending on the context, he emphasizes
one meaning or the other. In 3:21ff especially, he uses both meanings when
he talks about God's being shown to be a righteous and just God while also
giving to us his righteousness.
I think, however, that in this theme verse Paul is using the first meaning.
This display of the gospel reveals to us that God himself is a righteous
God. We might question his ways and motives at times, but the gospel, the
finished work of Jesus Christ, declares to the world that God himself is
righteous and he has acted justly in his world, even as he has acted
lovingly and wonderfully and graciously toward all who would believe.
Paul then says the righteousness of God is revealed "from faith to faith."
Now if you were to look up the phrase "from faith to faith" in a number of
commentaries on the book of Romans, you'd find umpteen different opinions on
what it means. The Greek text literally says, "Out of faith unto faith."
Sometimes the interpretation of this phrase is that it's intensifying or
emphasizing the idea of faith. Another interpretation points to the
progression of our walk with God; it begins with faith in Christ and
continues with faith in Christ.
But I'd like to suggest another interpretation. The Greek word for faith is
also the word for faithfulness, and depending on its context, it can be used
that way. For instance, in Romans 3:3, Paul clearly uses this word in
reference to God's faithfulness: "What then? If some did not believe, their
unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?" So, in this
case, I would suggest that "faith to faith" is a hinge phrase in Romans
1:17. The righteousness of God is revealed from his faithfulness to our
faith. That is, based on God's righteous faithfulness to fulfill all his
promises and accomplish his works, we place our faith in him. The powerful
gospel has revealed him this way, and as we encounter his wonderful,
transforming grace, the gospel comes home to us personally and powerfully,
changing our lives.
Real life
That brings us finally to the little statement "The righteous man shall live
by faith." Interestingly, Paul's quote from Habakkuk is not a direct
translation of either the Hebrew text or the Septuagint, the Greek
translation of the Old Testament used in Paul's time. Paul is basically
giving us his own paraphrase.
People have struggled as to how to translate this statement. It is most
often translated as we read it above. But an alternate reading, which you
may find in the margin notes of your Bible, is also compelling: "The just by
faith shall live." There are strong arguments in favor of each, but in light
of the whole course of the argument of Romans, I believe the second reading
fits better. Paul is saying to us, "The just by faith shall live." What he
is inviting us to recognize is that this powerful gospel he is talking
about, and which he is going to explain, gives us something more than just
some sort of new religion--it gives us real life. The pagans can try to find
life in self-indulgence or accomplishment. The Jews can search for it in
religious privilege as well as in the ethnicity, legalism, and social
structure that they have built. You can search for life in whatever you
want, but you will find life only in Christ. The one who is justified by
faith in Christ is the one who lives.
What God is offering to us is life that is outside of the normal human
experience. An interesting study for you to do would be to trace out the
word "life" or "live" in the New Testament using a concordance. The New
Testament concept of life is not mere existence. It is a special kind of
life, a life that is empowered by God himself. What Paul wants us to see is
that in the gospel of Christ, what has kept us in bondage is broken and we
are set free.
At the end of each major section of the book of Romans, Paul's heart breaks
forth in a song of praise. At the end of Romans 8, after his long discourse
on the wonders of Christ and of his salvation, he offers a beautiful song of
praise to God that concludes with these words: "For I am convinced that
neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present,
nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created
thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ
Jesus our Lord" (8:38-39).
At the end of chapter 11, after going through his discussion about how the
gospel is for the Jew and Gentile alike in God's sovereign purposes in the
unfolding plan of salvation, Paul writes: "Oh, the depth of the riches both
of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and
unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became
His counselor? Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to
him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be
the glory forever. Amen" (11:33-36).
At the end of chapter 16, after giving us wonderful instruction about how
the gospel is to impact our life and giving his final greetings to his
friends, he says, "Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my
gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the
mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is
manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the
commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations,
leading to obedience of faith; to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ,
be the glory forever. Amen" (16:25-29).
The power of the gospel is that we can be made new, we can be made alive.
Remember those four categories of settling for less than what God offers?
What the gospel does is turn those things on their heads.
In the place of despair, the gospel offers hope. I will not be forever
caught in the bondage of frailty and sinfulness. I can be set free. There is
hope for new, eternal life and real victory.
In the place of fatalism, the gospel gives joy, a heart of praise and wonder
that God has done something amazing to set us free.
In the place of humanistic pride, the gospel brings peace. I do not have to
get up tomorrow morning and prove myself again. I don't have to accomplish
something so that someone will pat me on the back so I can justify my
existence. God reaches into the turmoil of that rat race and gives me peace.
I am truly loved, eternally welcome in the presence of God.
And finally, in the place of religious pride, there is freedom. I don't have
to worry whether I'm doing enough for God to make the grade, whether I've
put enough money in the plate, whether I need to go feed the poor this
afternoon, or come to church on Wednesday as well as Sunday. We are freed
from that kind of bondage. God's acceptance of us derives from what Jesus
Christ has done on our behalf. Through him we are set free to just be who
God created us to be, fully alive in him.
In the last message we saw that faith means having the perspective of God's
sovereignty. Added to that, we can now see that faith means trusting in the
gospel of Jesus Christ, the power of which break the bonds of our sinfulness
and sets us free to experience the freedom of life in him.
Scripture quotations are taken from New American Standard Bible, ã 1960,
1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 The Lockman Foundation.
Used by permission.
Catalog No. 4672
Romans 1:16, 17; Galatians 3:10-14
2nd Message
Danny Hall
June 25, 2000
Copyright © 2000 Discovery Publishing, a ministry of Peninsula Bible Church.
This data file is the sole property of Discovery Publishing, a ministry of
Peninsula Bible Church. It may be copied only in its entirety for
circulation freely without charge. All copies of this data file must contain
the above copyright notice. This data file may not be copied in part,
edited, revised, copied for resale or incorporated in any commercial
publications, recordings, broadcasts, performances, displays or other
products offered for sale, without the written permission of Discovery
Publishing. Requests for permission should be made in writing and addressed
to Discovery Publishing, 3505 Middlefield Rd. Palo Alto, CA. 94306-3695.
.
|
|
| User: "Carl" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
03 Jun 2007 07:32:04 PM |
|
|
"<~(Hey, WhaddyaKnow?JesusSaysI'mAWhosoeverToo!)~>"
<ontheskagit@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180914863.312188.23300@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 3, 3:47 pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
But I know that no matter how many Christians I name who truly to care
for
the feelings of others, you will reject them all because your heart is
hardened.
How can you say with certainty that merlin's heart is hardened and
that he will reject each person on the list? Why not give him an
opportunity to reply? Aren't you being presumptive? Is being
negatively presumptive showing God's love and lifestyle evangelism in
action?
His words show he has a hardened heart.
The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart , and
the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart . For
out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks. (Luke 6:45)
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
| User: "~Hey, WhaddyaKnow?JesusSaysImAWhosoeverToo!~" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
03 Jun 2007 08:17:44 PM |
|
|
On Jun 3, 5:32 pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
"<~(Hey, WhaddyaKnow?JesusSaysI'mAWhosoeverToo!)~>"<ontheska...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180914863.312188.23300@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 3, 3:47 pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
But I know that no matter how many Christians I name who truly to care
for
the feelings of others, you will reject them all because your heart is
hardened.
How can you say with certainty that merlin's heart is hardened and
that he will reject each person on the list? Why not give him an
opportunity to reply? Aren't you being presumptive? Is being
negatively presumptive showing God's love and lifestyle evangelism in
action?
His words show he has a hardened heart.
I disagree. I can't say from some of the things he's said here that
he's saved, but I don't see a hardened heart at all. I think that on
several occasions he's showed compassion and pathos - and neither
indicate a hardened heart. I think he's spiritually searching - and
because of that alone you should reconsider dismissing him so easly.
Many likely considered Paul to have a hardened, unsalvagable heart
prior to his conversion - but the truth remains that only God knows
our hearts. I choose to believe the positive about him rather than
jumping to the negative conclusion.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
20 Jun 2007 06:20:01 PM |
|
|
as a gay child, suicide seem the simpliest way to live among such
angry and dangerous people that hated homosexauls. the constant
threats and social insults were hard to live with for sure. when
merlin first came upon saul/paul listen to someone speak in sunday
school, merlin loved the story of his moment of awareness while having
a seizure. that jesus would come to saul/paul, is a sign jesus will
come to anyone and yes jesus kept that promise and will keep that
promise to you as well.
in love with the loving gay jesus, merlin doesn't care that saul/paul
was gay either, he isn't as much fun anyway don't yah think?
merlin
On Jun 3, 9:17 pm, "<~(Hey, WhaddyaKnow?JesusSaysI'mAWhosoeverToo!)~>"
<ontheska...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Jun 3, 5:32 pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
"<~(Hey, WhaddyaKnow?JesusSaysI'mAWhosoeverToo!)~>"<ontheska...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180914863.312188.23300@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 3, 3:47 pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
But I know that no matter how many Christians I name who truly to care
for
the feelings of others, you will reject them all because your heart is
hardened.
How can you say with certainty that merlin's heart is hardened and
that he will reject each person on the list? Why not give him an
opportunity to reply? Aren't you being presumptive? Is being
negatively presumptive showing God's love and lifestyle evangelism in
action?
His words show he has a hardened heart.
I disagree. I can't say from some of the things he's said here that
he's saved, but I don't see a hardened heart at all. I think that on
several occasions he's showed compassion and pathos - and neither
indicate a hardened heart. I think he's spiritually searching - and
because of that alone you should reconsider dismissing him so easly.
Many likely considered Paul to have a hardened, unsalvagable heart
prior to his conversion - but the truth remains that only God knows
our hearts. I choose to believe the positive about him rather than
jumping to the negative conclusion.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
20 Jun 2007 05:49:51 PM |
|
|
On Jun 3, 8:32 pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
His words show he has a hardened heart.
what words? list even one thing that merlin has said that is hard for
you to accept? let alone that you judge merlin as hard..........
this is important, for jesus has asked merlin to say things in love
for love by love.
The good man
merlin is not a good man?
brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart ,
you have judged merlin? merlin turns the other cheek.
and
the evil man brings evil things
that you have shown merlin evil does not make merlin evil.
out of the evil stored up in his heart .
list the evil you have found from merlin's posts, there are tons of
them. no really find one evil thing merlin has written on christnet.
yes this is dare.
For
out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks. (Luke 6:45)
again, why do you constantly insult?
in love with the living loving gay jesus,
merlin
alt.bible, alt.religion.christian, alt.religion.christian.baptist,
alt.religion.christian.methodist, alt.christnet,
alt.religion.christian.pentecostal, free.christians
May God bless,
Carl
website --http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog --http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bible Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
03 Jun 2007 10:56:01 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 20:32:04 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:
"<~(Hey, WhaddyaKnow?JesusSaysI'mAWhosoeverToo!)~>"
<ontheskagit@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180914863.312188.23300@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 3, 3:47 pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
But I know that no matter how many Christians I name who truly to care
for
the feelings of others, you will reject them all because your heart is
hardened.
How can you say with certainty that merlin's heart is hardened and
that he will reject each person on the list? Why not give him an
opportunity to reply? Aren't you being presumptive? Is being
negatively presumptive showing God's love and lifestyle evangelism in
action?
His words show he has a hardened heart.
The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart , and
the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart . For
out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks. (Luke 6:45)
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Carl,
So, what you are saying is all this name calling and fault finding "I
am holier than you" preaching you are doing comes from your hardened
heart.
You know, I have to agree with you. You defined yourself quite well.
Anyone that "judges" everybody according to standards that he can not
explain himself has something wrong with his heart.
Earlier you wrote the following in your post titled the "Ignorant and
Unenlightened" and in your introductory paragraph proved that you were
ignorant and unenlightened about what you were talking about. Below
that is my response to you. There is always a "recently some" that
don't meet your expectations of what people should be.
I and Kelly don't often agree; but she is right on the money this
time. And if I am not mistaken this is the second time that I must in
all honesty agree with what she says about your behavior.
Here is what you said and my response:
Recently some have been using the weak argument that since the word
"trinity" does not appear in the Bible then the concept cannot be Biblically
true. Logically that is an erroneous debate tactic yet some people use it to
deny the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity. Greg Koukl addresses this
argument tactic on the air and explains correctly why it's a bogus point.
The transcript is available online at
http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5309
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
Carl,
No, Carl, logic has to do with right thinking. For example, one plus
one plus one equals three. So, if someone says that the Trinity is
not Biblical because the word is not in the Bible then that would be
logical because the word "Biblical" means "of the Bible".
biblical
One entry found for biblical.
Main Entry: bib·li·cal
Pronunciation: 'bi-bli-k&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Medieval Latin biblicus, from biblia
1 : of, relating to, or being in accord with the Bible
2 : suggestive of the Bible or Bible times
- bib·li·cal·ly /-k(&-)lE/ adverb
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/biblical
I won't waste my time reading the article because I want you to prove
that you know what you are talking about. How many articles by others
have you posted about the Trinity? A bunch. If you still don't
understand enough to explain it by now after reading all those
articles why should I waste my time reading them. If they don't teach
you the truth why should anyone believe that what you recommend as
good is good?
Let's face it, if your illogical introduction is any indicator of what
you have learned from the guy below; it can't be too good. Can it?
If that teacher can't teach you anything, why would anyone be stupid
enough to waste their time reading what he writes. Nothing against
the guy or what he wrote - I didn't read what he wrote. But you are
the one accusing people of being wrong while proving yourself wrong in
most of your posts. If you want people to follow your recommendations
give them evidence that your product is good. What do you do to
"sell" Jesus Christ; live a sinful life? Or, do you try to live a
life that shows how Jesus Christ has profited you. If your
presentation of Jesus Christ as your presentation of the writers you
introduce what kind of witness are you.
Again, I am not being mean to you. If YOU think the Trinity is
truth; YOU prove it rather than delegating the job to others who
apparently aren't capable of teaching even you - their follower?
Think about it.
Bob
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
20 Jun 2007 05:43:53 PM |
|
|
dear "Carl"
name a christian that ever cares for the feelings of others......
it doesn't exist.
Logically to disprove your theory I only have to name one..
However I'll name several...
Billy Graham,
billy graham is a politician and will have a politicians funeral
someday. everyone will be there. the whole world will watch mr.
graham be burried as they watched diana and mother teresa's funeral.
the world will watch he is that famous as a rich man for god.
the man billy spoke for for years was executed as a criminal and died
as a totally broke criminal. billy graham became a millionaire on
teaching jesus what makes billy a great man in your eyes? for when he
had the chance in nixon's office to help nixon see the light, he
pandered to nixon's worse side on the taped we all heard and agreed
with nixon about those jews. and has never retracted that feeling or
statement as far as merlin knows.
can you imagine the difference billy could have made on nixon had he
stopped and told nixon his politicized racism was wrong and prayer
could have helped nixon? enstead he aggreed with the power billy was
in awe of and did not act for god rather for the influence he had at
that time with access to the oval office. so when tempted we can see
where billy failed america by not helping nixon see the truth even
that one time.
power likes people to cow tow to power as it would appear billy did.
Franklin Graham,
the son of billy graham is not famous for human or civil rights. and
he has been around since martin luther king.
John Ankerberg, Walter Martin, Randy Ray,
Kevin Hall, myself, Josh McDowell, Charles Stanley, John Wesley, Charles
Wesley, Jerry Falwell,
jerry falwell never appeared to be a happy christian, he was always
attacking children's television characters for being gay, that is not
loving at all. and practiced segregation in his church.
and merlin isn't into inheriting jesus mantle from a family member.
Dennis Swanberg, Stan Buckley, Jack Riley, Nancy
Walton, Bob Tindale, Anna Jackson, Bill Rhoads, Betsy Ouellette, Erick
Ashley, Jim Divine, Wayne Cook, Ralph Wrightstone, Clarke Campbell-Evans,
Peter Cottrell, Sally Campbell-Evans, Sean Peters, Jill Merryday, Bridget
Colon, Krista Thorton, Larry Darnell, Nancy Forinash and millions upon
millions more.
can you tell us which ones are homophobes for jesus? how many go to
segregated schools and segregated churches for jesus? then we could
tell more how wonderful these people really are. can't imagine they
like their names mentioned on the net.
But
but what? you gonna say something nasty?
I know that no matter how many Christians I name who truly to care for
the feelings of others, you will reject them all because your heart is
hardened.
takes one to know one? is this the level of insult you wanna go for?
is this your best insult? why does it matter that you see someone
else as having a hard heart? jesus says when you call someone hard
hearted your heart can be judged, merlin refuses jesus gift in this
case. what does it matter that you see yourself as saved and
wonderful and someone else with a hard heart? your insults suggests
you are not a happy christian, and jesus keeps asking where are the
happy christians?
can you point to one thing that merlin has ever said that is of a hard
heart?
merlin has been attacked more than anyone else on christnet, merlin
has been threatened too on christnet often. this has not hardened
merlin's heart. tho you judge others jesus asks us not to judge
others.
I will keep you in my prayers.
and what does this have to do with merlin?
you have set people up as shining examples of jesus love when at least
three of them have become millionaires using jesus teachings for
profit? getting rich off of jesus is not a good thing is it? jesus
died in poverty.
in love with the living gay jesus,
merlin
alt.bible, alt.religion.christian, alt.religion.christian.baptist,
alt.religion.christian.methodist, alt.christnet,
alt.religion.christian.pentecostal, free.christians
May God bless,
Carl
website --http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog --http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Carl" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
29 May 2007 08:24:36 PM |
|
|
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135p50c1e7ijvac@corp.supernews.com...
Carl wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135n7a7gre47mdd@corp.supernews.com...
Carl wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135n3kntfk64t88@corp.supernews.com...
Carl wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135mt2dch79e422@corp.supernews.com...
You're quite right in your opinion that one should use a weapon to
injure rather thank kill.
I'm thankful that I'm not the only one that understands this.
Thank you.
It's a naive and ignorant P.O.V. We will have to agree to disagree on
this.
No Carl, we WON'T agree to disagree ! I challenged you to show me
new testament scripture of Christ telling His people it is acceptable
to
go ahead and kill without concern for the criminal.
If you have scripture provide it. I'm not the least bit interested
in your opinion, I'm interested in what Christ said.
You're not interested in discussing this civilly and intelligently at
all. You also are not interested in Biblical aspects of this since
you've already made it plain that you refuse to accept portions of the
Bible. Therefore we will have to agree to disagree because you've
already taken yourself out of the discussion by playing your little
games. That's fine. I can live with your foolishness.
I'm sure you can. Living with your own has been good practice for
you...
Oooh...how very mature of you. LOL!
Is that how you deal with other peoples feelings and beliefs when
they oppose yours, ridicule ?
When they throw childish tantrums (as you did) then they shall be treated as
a child. If you wish to be treated as an adult then act like one.
You're not really very mature in your
own right. Refusing to consider the feelings and beliefs of others
while complaining because they believe that way, and offering ridicule
as a solution to dealing with their statements couldn't be more
immature or self centered.
Intentionally mischaracterizing as you are wont to do doesn't help your
cause.
Your childish hissy fits bore me. Your intentional misrepresentations bore
me. You naivete bores me. I felt that you didn't wish to correspond with me
any longer. Has that changed?
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rod" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
29 May 2007 09:00:51 PM |
|
|
Carl wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135p50c1e7ijvac@corp.supernews.com...
Carl wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135n7a7gre47mdd@corp.supernews.com...
Carl wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135n3kntfk64t88@corp.supernews.com...
Carl wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135mt2dch79e422@corp.supernews.com...
You're quite right in your opinion that one should use a weapon to
injure rather thank kill.
I'm thankful that I'm not the only one that understands this.
Thank you.
It's a naive and ignorant P.O.V. We will have to agree to disagree on
this.
No Carl, we WON'T agree to disagree ! I challenged you to show me
new testament scripture of Christ telling His people it is acceptable
to
go ahead and kill without concern for the criminal.
If you have scripture provide it. I'm not the least bit interested
in your opinion, I'm interested in what Christ said.
You're not interested in discussing this civilly and intelligently at
all. You also are not interested in Biblical aspects of this since
you've already made it plain that you refuse to accept portions of the
Bible. Therefore we will have to agree to disagree because you've
already taken yourself out of the discussion by playing your little
games. That's fine. I can live with your foolishness.
I'm sure you can. Living with your own has been good practice for
you...
Oooh...how very mature of you. LOL!
Is that how you deal with other peoples feelings and beliefs when
they oppose yours, ridicule ?
When they throw childish tantrums (as you did) then they shall be treated as
a child. If you wish to be treated as an adult then act like one.
You're not really very mature in your
own right. Refusing to consider the feelings and beliefs of others
while complaining because they believe that way, and offering ridicule
as a solution to dealing with their statements couldn't be more
immature or self centered.
Intentionally mischaracterizing as you are wont to do doesn't help your
cause.
You're a liar.
Your childish hissy fits bore me.
Go ahead and be bored. You act like someones only child, exceedingly
spoiled and arrogant.
Your intentional misrepresentations bore
me. You naivete bores me. I felt that you didn't wish to correspond with me
any longer. Has that changed?
Not at all. I will forgive your insolence and attitude,
in the meantime I wish you a long and happy life.
Goodbye.
--
Gal 6:7 Be not tricked; God is not made sport of: for whatever seed a
man puts in, that will he get back as grain.
Gal 6:8 Because he who puts in the seed of the flesh will of the flesh
get the reward of death; but he who puts in the seed of the Spirit will
of the Spirit get the reward of eternal life.
Gal 6:9 And let us not get tired of well-doing; for at the right time
we will get in the grain, if we do not give way to weariness.
Gal 6:10 So then, as we have the chance, let us do good to all men, and
specially to those who are of the family of the faith.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,
the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit,
and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is
greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in
himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he
believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Carl" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
29 May 2007 09:06:49 PM |
|
|
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135pmlqk9etfi82@corp.supernews.com...
Intentionally mischaracterizing as you are wont to do doesn't help your
cause.
You're a liar.
So far that's all you claim. Nothing substantive to back it up, but since
you would rather act immature, so be it.
Your childish hissy fits bore me.
Go ahead and be bored. You act like someones only child, exceedingly
spoiled and arrogant.
LOL! Yet you continue to refuse to be adult in this conversation. Hilarious!
Your intentional misrepresentations bore
me. You naivete bores me. I felt that you didn't wish to correspond with
me any longer. Has that changed?
Not at all. I will forgive your insolence and attitude,
in the meantime I wish you a long and happy life.
Goodbye.
Is it REALLY goodbye this time, Rod? Or are you teasing me once again...oh
woe is me! LOL!
Rod, you really need to leave the over dramatics back at the acting class.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rod" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
29 May 2007 11:30:45 PM |
|
|
Carl wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135pmlqk9etfi82@corp.supernews.com...
Intentionally mischaracterizing as you are wont to do doesn't help your
cause.
You're a liar.
So far that's all you claim. Nothing substantive to back it up, but since
you would rather act immature, so be it.
Your childish hissy fits bore me.
Go ahead and be bored. You act like someones only child, exceedingly
spoiled and arrogant.
LOL! Yet you continue to refuse to be adult in this conversation. Hilarious!
Because I describe your actions ? Do you think that you being bored
is of major concern to me ? The fits you accuse me of are in your
imagination Carl. You have twisted my remarks into something
they were not. I can agree with Steve Winter on at least one thing,
you ARE a liar, and VERY good at it !
I've always dreaded that this would happen one day.
Your intentional misrepresentations bore
me. You naivete bores me.
You're quite amusing after a while.
Goodbye
--
Gal 6:7 Be not tricked; God is not made sport of: for whatever seed a
man puts in, that will he get back as grain.
Gal 6:8 Because he who puts in the seed of the flesh will of the flesh
get the reward of death; but he who puts in the seed of the Spirit will
of the Spirit get the reward of eternal life.
Gal 6:9 And let us not get tired of well-doing; for at the right time
we will get in the grain, if we do not give way to weariness.
Gal 6:10 So then, as we have the chance, let us do good to all men, and
specially to those who are of the family of the faith.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,
the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit,
and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is
greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in
himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he
believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Carl" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 06:02:10 PM |
|
|
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135pvet2ol3inbf@corp.supernews.com...
Carl wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135pmlqk9etfi82@corp.supernews.com...
Intentionally mischaracterizing as you are wont to do doesn't help your
cause.
You're a liar.
So far that's all you claim. Nothing substantive to back it up, but since
you would rather act immature, so be it.
Your childish hissy fits bore me.
Go ahead and be bored. You act like someones only child, exceedingly
spoiled and arrogant.
LOL! Yet you continue to refuse to be adult in this conversation.
Hilarious!
Because I describe your actions ?
No, because you throw childish tantrums, call others childish
names...basically in recent posts, you have been acting quite immature yet
here you are (although you keep saying goodbye) wanting to be treated like
an adult.
Do you think that you being bored is of major concern to me ?
I'm discovering many things are of little concern to you. Honesty for
example. Civility is another. Integrity is a third. Maturity apparently
isn't a concern of yours as well.
The fits you accuse me of are in your imagination Carl.
LOL! The usenet posts you have left are the clearcut evidence of your
childish tantrums.
You have twisted my remarks into something they were not.
Again you attempt a very poor and weak smear.
I can agree with Steve Winter on at least one thing,
you ARE a liar, and VERY good at it !
Let's see...earlier you you accuse me of the fits that your own posts show
are merely figments of my imagination yet here you go attempting to smear me
with fabrication. You may try to obfuscate the issue, but it's not working.
I've always dreaded that this would happen one day.
Doubtful. You seem to revel in your hissy fits and angry, self-righteous
tirades.
Goodbye
Now is this a REAL goodbye or another of you insincere, false goodbyes? It's
so hard to tell since you keep teasing me with so many not-so-final
goodbyes.
This is why your nonsense bores me and pretty much bores most everyone else
as well. You're getting so predictable.
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rod" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 07:58:34 PM |
|
|
Carl wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135pvet2ol3inbf@corp.supernews.com...
Carl wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135pmlqk9etfi82@corp.supernews.com...
Intentionally mischaracterizing as you are wont to do doesn't help your
cause.
You're a liar.
So far that's all you claim.
The proof is below Carl, under your nose ! Another small
example of your willingness to lie.
Nothing substantive to back it up,
See below Carl, the proof is under your nose !
Your childish hissy fits bore me.
Go ahead and be bored. You act like someones only child, exceedingly
spoiled and arrogant.
LOL! Yet you continue to refuse to be adult in this conversation.
By describing your actions as they occur ? What type of dementia
did you say you're suffering from ? You've lied again, the proof
is above ! What is childish about describing how you are acting ?
The problem stems from you not being mature enough to admit your
faults so you transfer your wrongs to me and then accuse me of
the same things that you've been guilty of all along !
Hilarious!
Frustrating for me...
Because I describe your actions ?
No, because you throw childish tantrums, call others childish
names
Like "child" ? You hypocrite ! How thats for a "childish" name ?
....basically in recent posts, you have been acting quite immature yet
here you are (although you keep saying goodbye) wanting to be treated like
an adult.
What are you reading into goodbye Carl ? Since saying goodbye
to you evidently is the equivalent of poking your buttons, I'll
do it again at the end of this post.
Do you think that you being bored is of major concern to me ?
I'm discovering many things are of little concern to you.
This all seems to stem from my feelings about guns and killing.
Honesty for
example.
You're not a great one to talk about honesty Carl. I have several
examples of your attacks bearing out lies about me that can be viewed
by any interested party, at the top of this post as well.
Civility is another. Integrity is a third. Maturity apparently
isn't a concern of yours as well.
You are seeing a reflection of yourself, Carl. You are the one doing
the smear job with your accusations of fits, tantrums and characterising
me as immature. I've been very frustrated while dealing with you, you
attack, accuse and leave no room for me to do anything but strike back
with what I know of your actions. The only things I know of you are from
your posts, but when it's true I'm going to say it whether you agree of not.
You haven't left me any room to reason with you but one time, and you
mischaracterised me before wanting to discuss the subject. Now I have
the opportunity to speak my peace. I won't discuss things with people
that do the things that you have done in your first post to me becuase
truth and understanding cannot be established and nothing worthwhile can
get done if one party is willing to lie. Thats party was you.
The fits you accuse me of are in your imagination Carl.
LOL! The usenet posts you have left are the clearcut evidence of your
childish tantrums.
Just telling the truth ! I'm frustrated by your attacks
because I'm used to reasoning things out. That opportunity came to an
end when you attacked me in your first post. If you need me to re-post
that post I'll do so, but I think you are more than capable of finding
it.
Or...is this another of those "fits" you were accusing me of ?
You have twisted my remarks into something they were not.
Again you attempt a very poor and weak smear.
I have spoken the truth. I'll be glad to post those remarks
along with an explanation of what I meant, if that will
help you ?
I can agree with Steve Winter on at least one thing,
you ARE a liar, and VERY good at it !
Let's see...earlier you you accuse me of the fits that your own posts show
are merely figments of my imagination yet here you go attempting to smear me
with fabrication. You may try to obfuscate the issue, but it's not working.
The proof is at the top of this post Carl, and it's only one
small sample of several lies you spoken. I'll make a list and
post it for you, explaining why they are lies to the side of
each one. How is that ?
There is no dealing with you Carl, none. I hope that others here
reading this will understand what frustration feels like in dealing
with someone like you, nevertheless Carl...you characterised me as
having fits and tantrums when I was steeped in frustration, and made
yourself a liar. Accept the truth and correct your ways, move on.
I've always dreaded that this would happen one day.
Doubtful.
Unless defending ones own thoughts is now another sign of immaturity,
I would tell you that only God knows my thoughts and fears, and you
have again presumed to predict them. My conscience is clear before him
and I have repented of any wrongs done, and am answerable to Him only.
And yes, He also knows that I have feared the day that I would to make
that admission, for what will that say of me and the state of things ?
You seem to revel in your hissy fits and angry, self-righteous
tirades.
This statement is one of the reasons I consider you a liar, when I
try to explain myself you berate me and shout me down. You make no
allowances for anyone but yourself. You may be a man, but you are still
a spoiled child in a mans body, insisting on getting his way thru any
means available.
Goodbye
Now is this a REAL goodbye or another of you insincere, false goodbyes?
What goodbye means to you is your problem, Carl. I not going
to dance to your tune no matter how much you pipe. But I will tell
you this, I don't want any more of the kind of frustration I have
been thru trying to deal with you. I have an opinion of you now, and
it isn't a good one, and I'm also confident that it will not bother
you. Thats not my problem either.
Once again, just for you...goodbye.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 09:00:09 PM |
|
|
On May 30, 8:58 pm, Rod <kc0...@cableone.net> wrote:
The facts remain as evidenced by your posts which can be reviewed via
Usenet newsgroups:
1) You tend to throw childish tempter tantrums when people disagree
with you and with people who shine the light of truth upon you.
2) You post entries with clearly erroneous information and when
corrected with documented sources, you respond with personal attacks
and smear tactics.
3) You claim to engage in "reasoning" but demonstrate such reasoning
skills with childish name calling, ad hominem attacks, fabrications
against others, strawman arguments, various other logical falacies.
Then you call others "liar" when they call you on it.
4) Rather than engage in rational, intelligent discourse, you would
rather snipe, insult and routinely post dishonestly.
5) You brag on trying to provoke others into stooping to your level.
These are all documented by your own posts which have been archived
via Usenet newsgroups.
I could go on but my point has been made. Maybe when you finally
decide to be rational, civil and mature in future posts I might find
your worthy of future responses. But you've made my points for me.
Thank you for your cooperation, Rod. I will keep you in my prayers.
May God bless you and keep you always,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 12:19:44 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 29 May 2007 21:24:36 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
Your childish hissy fits bore me. Your intentional misrepresentations bore
me. You naivete bores me.
Then feel free to LEAVE any time. Would you like me hold the door?
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 02:30:26 PM |
|
|
On May 30, 1:19 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2007 21:24:36 -0400, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com>
wrote:
Your childish hissy fits bore me. Your intentional misrepresentations bore
me. You naivete bores me.
Then feel free to LEAVE any time. Would you like me hold the door?
I thought you said you weren't going to post to me any longer. I guess
that was a dishonest claim on your part as well. I guess it's my
overwhelming charm that brought you back. LOL!
May God bless,
Carl
website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Merlin" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
29 May 2007 07:45:40 PM |
|
|
On May 29, 4:59 pm, Rod <kc0...@cableone.net> wrote:
Is that how you deal with other peoples feelings and beliefs when
they oppose yours, ridicule ? You're not really very mature in your
own right. Refusing to consider the feelings and beliefs of others
while complaining because they believe that way, and offering ridicule
as a solution to dealing with their statements couldn't be more
immature or self centered.
this is so protective and self serving. it is a riot. you are not
serious, right?
name a christian that ever cares for the feelings of others......
it doesn't exist.
Rod
--
Gal 6:7 Be not tricked; God is not made sport of: for whatever seed a
man puts in, that will he get back as grain.
when you attack others in faith, when you portray others poorly in
faith, this is gonna happen to you, jesus promises.
jesus promises every evil done in jesus name will be sent back to the
person that sent it. when christians vote about rights for all non
whites in america, and all gays and lesbians in america, jesus
promises we will be voting on chrsitians rights to bash others as
well. when christians cheat and steall each other, when christians
tear each other down.... jesus promises the same treatment back on the
person that sends them.
Gal 6:8 Because he who puts in the seed of the flesh will of the flesh
get the reward of death; but he who puts in the seed of the Spirit will
of the Spirit get the reward of eternal life.
this is weird don't you think........ how many people on christnet
does anything but spit seeds out? who gardens anymore that this would
be a commonly used phrase in america?
god does not need seed money.
Gal 6:9 And let us not get tired of well-doing; for at the right time
we will get in the grain, if we do not give way to weariness.
this will not cure one christian of meaness in jesus name.
Gal 6:10 So then, as we have the chance, let us do good to all men, and
specially to those who are of the family of the faith.
what does this mean to you? when you christians don't treat each
other as family. segregation is major in america....... and
christians ignore it and promote segregation.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,
the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
again, what does the original text say? in greek of course, not jesus
native language.
1John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit,
and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
what does this mean to you? why do you worship blood?
1John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is
greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
we witness what youse guys write. god does not witness, god is.
we witness the glory of god, god does not have that inner voice as
humans have that brings doubt and confusion.
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in
himself:
this does not make sense.
he that believeth not God hath made him a liar;
so no one should even bother get involved right? what is the point
when it boils down to name calling?
because he
believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
we are all sons and daughters of god, until you see value in all life
nothing seems to makes sense with you and your need to have god
witness when we witness god.
i love with the living gay jesus who taught us all to love everyone as
we love ourselves.,
merlin
alt.bible, alt.religion.christian, alt.religion.christian.baptist,
alt.religion.christian.methodist, alt.christnet,
alt.religion.christian.pentecostal, free.christians
.
|
|
|
| User: "Vernono O Here @there" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 09:22:13 AM |
|
|
"Merlin" <merlinator@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180485940.338412.292400@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 29, 4:59 pm, Rod <kc0...@cableone.net> wrote:
Whatever excuse you want.
Paul said plenty about your lifestyle. It's YOUR problem. Don't try to
make everyone condone your sins. They don't have to "judge", but they sure
don't have to condone.
You have a problem. Deal with it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Merlin" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 11:30:30 AM |
|
|
On May 30, 10:22 am, "Vernono O" <Here @there> wrote:
"Merlin" <merlina...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180485940.338412.292400@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> On May 29, 4:59 pm, Rod <kc0...@cableone.net> wrote:
Whatever excuse you want.
no one need make excuses for you or to you......
this idea that people have to answer to you is so old and so tired.
you sound like a dictator used to giving orders not cooperating with
people.
when democratic principles return to christianity you will see the
error of your ways.
it is funny to see whole groups of christian families using hate as a
bonding tool, acting like the center of the universe while promoting
their corruption of jesus message of love.
Paul said plenty about your lifestyle.
not his own sins we bet? he sure enjoyed critizing others. is this
where chrsitians get their mantle of hate as a right as a chrsitian to
demean others from paul and jesus in the temple?
this is so funny, you are willing to quote a man from 2k years ago and
believe in him more than a neighbor today. where is your personal
journey in all of this, that you need the power of a guy dead for 2000
years to back you up against jesus teachings of love?
can't find any modern authority that will allow for you homophobia
except of falwell, the pope and the polish empire?
It's YOUR problem.
you broke your own mirro. we can't help you when you judge people for
jesus. we can't help you when you loose your soul over anyone else's
sins. what did jesus say about seeing other people's problems? but
what does jesus matter any more in american christianity.
Don't try to
make everyone condone your sins.
what are your sins you hide behind attacks on others? why are you
discussing someone else's sexuality and hiding your own? what are yah
hiding from by confusing people and complaining about someone else?
what does merlin's religious experiences have to do with you?
sin is a miss mark in archery, merlin has taken an archery course and
is not that bad at sinning in archery. merlin has hit the mark more
than once. how about you? how good are you at not sinning?
They don't have to "judge",
you just did hons, and quoted a dead guy from 2000 years ago to back
you up. LOL.
bet paul/saul owned slaves to at one point too, are you from an
exslave state?
but they sure
don't have to condone.
you going around condoning people again? what is that all about?
you kosher certifying people for god? did god ask you to judge others
for god?
when?
and you never met god right? so weird how people have the
preconceived notions about the god they never met..........
when we love we too can find the father as jesus found the father
through love. when you over lay hatred and judgement over jesus
teachings, we see the result the in the corruption in christian values
in the whitehouse and the christians that promote torture and false
war for some end of the world scenario.
You have a problem.
from you lips to god's ears?
Deal with it.
don't not play cards. so you play card games eh?
thought most us gave that up a long time ago.
this is classic attack while revealing nothing about oneself, except
we have a card playing reference and a archery reference. bet this
guy may have a hidden gambling problem then? right? takes too many
risks with other people's feelings too we bet? and merlin has never
met this person and doesn't want to be right either, LOL.
are people in your neighborhood afraid of you cause you can tell them
when god loves and condones them?
confess your sins while accusing others of sin? merlin has been told
on christnet that is much easier to discuss other people's sins, cause
writing about one's own sins is so messy and creates such a bad self
image........ is that why you are attacking a homosexual on
christnet?
jesus said since you have attempted to demean merlin's beliefs using
sexuality you will be revealed as wanting as you complain about
others.
rev ted wrote books about anti gay themes before he was found out.
that was a huge smoke screen don't yah think? how about youse?
in love with the living gay jesus who taught us all to love,
merlin
do you believe in the homosexual celebate jesus or the heterosexual
celebate jesus? and how do you know for sure either way.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Vernono O Here @there" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
30 May 2007 12:49:40 PM |
|
|
"Merlin" <merlinator@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180542630.374207.281870@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 30, 10:22 am, "Vernono O" <Here @there> wrote:
Paul said plenty about your lifestyle.
not his own sins we bet? he sure enjoyed critizing others.
You are COMPLETELY ignorant of what Paul wrote.
Yet you comment..
bye bye troll
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
29 May 2007 10:46:06 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 May 2007 22:41:41 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
You're not interested in discussing this civilly and intelligently at all.
You also are not interested in Biblical aspects of this since you've already
made it plain that you refuse to accept portions of the Bible. Therefore we
will have to agree to disagree because you've already taken yourself out of
the discussion by playing your little games. That's fine. I can live with
your foolishness.
How freely would you though, if you simply fired with ample necessity?
You'd be behinds bars.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
29 May 2007 10:42:05 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 May 2007 21:56:57 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:
"Rod" <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:135mt2dch79e422@corp.supernews.com...
You're quite right in your opinion that one should use a weapon to
injure rather thank kill.
I'm thankful that I'm not the only one that understands this. Thank you.
It's a naive and ignorant P.O.V. We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Plus if faced with identical situation of an armed intruder threatening our
families, the odds of me and my family walking away from such a situation
unharmed are much greated than you and yours if you are serious concerning
this.
OTC, Rod is correct, and YOU are making too hasty a judgment here.
Most likely, Rod and his family would walk away unharmed. Conversely,
YOU and your family most likely would not.
So- if an armed man held you up, demanding all your money, what would
you do? Would you give the money to him, or try to draw your pistol
first?
If you say the latter, then you LACK the knowledge to use a firearm
appropriately.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
29 May 2007 10:26:54 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 May 2007 19:31:38 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
NOspam@no.spam wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2007 14:06:39 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
Carl wrote:
"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:32jl53pnnjaestat44mt1c7620r4kstoo6@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 27 May 2007 16:22:31 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
john w <johnw wrote:
If a man breaks into your home and has a gun, is it wrong to grab
YOUR gun, return fire, and kill the man in order to defend your home
and your loved ones?
If that happens I am going to do all in my power to prevent anyone
dying. If wounding him is called for then I'll do that.
Oh, the hero who has been in that situation 10 times will tell us all
about the "right thing to do".
Well it so happens that I HAVE been in that situation. And the last
thing I was concerned about was shooting a madman in a "non-vital
area". If some whacko is coming after me to do me harm, then he has
put himself in that situation, and his welfare is NOT my concern.
You cowardly deal with a hypothetical you've never deal with before.
Even law enforcement will tell you, "don't worry yourself with where
to hit a perpetrator, and don't worry about "now, where can I best
place just ONE bullet?"
For law enforcement I believe the term is "center mass" usually the chest
area. A 9mm will do a pretty nasty job internally. Extensive training is
normally given to law enforcement officials in this area.
I am in agreement with you, someone claiming they would "shoot to wound" if
an intruder broke into their home and put their family in danger is not only
unrealistic and completely naive,
Oh pompous FOOL ! You don't know me or my mind well to make such
a stupid judgment of me !
It's a matter of conscience for me, not a badge of honor
screaming, "Oh goody ! Someone broke into my house, thats a threat to
my families welfare, now I can say they threatened my family and
legally take there life !" This opens a whole can of worms ! Now
people like weatherly, having more faith in metal and gun powder
than the God they proclaim, will be drooling in anticipation of
this kind of violence occurring.
Tell me Carl or John, where does the new testament tell you to kill
if someone threatens your family ? And please spare me quotes from
the old testament, as only those of circumcision are affected by it's
laws. Gentiles are under the new testament by Grace thru faith, so if
you accept Christ you are answerable by new testament standards. Show
me a teaching of Christ allowing you to kill someone for being a
threat to your family.
Rod
Exactly, Rod - to purposely kill is not right, and indeed the law John
claims to know 'so well' would NEVER advise a person to simply take
the law into their own hands.
Use of A WEAPON of any kind should be used as a last resort, as a REAL
Police Officer told me years ago when I was studying Judo.
You're quite right in your opinion that one should use a weapon to
injure rather thank kill.
I'm thankful that I'm not the only one that understands this. Thank you.
Rod
You're more than welcome, Rod. And yes, I understand exactly what
you're saying and why.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: The crock of crap Of Faith |
29 May 2007 09:39:18 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 28 May 2007 15:47:55 -0400, wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
On Mon, 28 May 2007 14:06:39 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
Carl wrote:
"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:32jl53pnnjaestat44mt1c7620r4kstoo6@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 27 May 2007 16:22:31 -0500, Rod <kc0oeb@cableone.net> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
john w <johnw wrote:
If a man breaks into your home and has a gun, is it wrong to grab
YOUR gun, return fire, and kill the man in order to defend your home
and your loved ones?
If that happens I am going to do all in my power to prevent anyone
dying. If wounding him is called for then I'll do that.
Oh, the hero who has been in that situation 10 times will tell us all
about the "right thing to do".
Well it so happens that I HAVE been in that situation. And the last
thing I was concerned about was shooting a madman in a "non-vital
area". If some whacko is coming after me to do me harm, then he has
put himself in that situation, and his welfare is NOT my concern.
You cowardly deal with a hypothetical you've never deal with before.
Even law enforcement will tell you, "don't worry yourself with where
to hit a perpetrator, and don't worry about "now, where can I best
place just ONE bullet?"
For law enforcement I believe the term is "center mass" usually the chest
area. A 9mm will do a pretty nasty job internally. Extensive training is
normally given to law enforcement officials in this area.
I am in agreement with you, someone claiming they would "shoot to wound" if
an intruder broke into their home and put their family in danger is not only
unrealistic and completely naive,
Oh pompous FOOL ! You don't know me or my mind well to make such
a stupid judgment of me !
It's a matter of conscience for me, not a badge of honor
screaming, "Oh goody ! Someone broke into my house, thats a threat to
my families welfare, now I can say they threatened my family and
legally take there life !" This opens a whole can of worms ! Now
people like weatherly, having more faith in metal and gun powder
than the God they proclaim, will be drooling in anticipation of
this kind of violence occurring.
Tell me Carl or John, where does the new testament tell you to kill
if someone threatens your family ? And please spare me quotes from
the old testament, as only those of circumcision are affected by it's
laws. Gentiles are under the new testament by Grace thru faith, so if
you accept Christ you are answerable by new testament standards. Show
me a teaching of Christ allowing you to kill someone for being a
threat to your family.
Rod
Exactly, Rod - to purposely kill is not right,
To purposely kill someone who invades my home IS right.
It is within man's law, and I am free to interpret God's law.
I will answer to God, not to you.
and indeed the law John
claims to know 'so well' would NEVER advise a person to simply take
the law into their own hands.
AGAIN, you have no clue.
When someone invades my home, the LAW in the USA gives me the right to
use deadly force within my home.
The law is that if someone breaks into your home, they are DEAD. End
of story. What takes place in your home with an intruder, YOU, the
homeowner, become "The Law."
Use of A WEAPON of any kind should be used as a last resort, as a REAL
Police Officer told me years ago when I was studying Judo.
Then why do YOU admit to carrying, Elaine?
You're quite right in your opinion that one should use a weapon to
injure rather thank kill.
.
|
|
| |
