| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Timothy Sutter" |
| Date: |
16 Jan 2005 07:14:15 AM |
| Object: |
the power of our Faith |
certainly, in some respects,
Faith is likened to weaponry,
and in that respect, we realize
that we must be trained in
its proper use and care.
and God uses our life circumstances to do just this.
God gives us our Faith, and shows us how
to enter in to agreement with the will of God.
and...
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| User: "Timothy Sutter" |
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| Title: Re: the power of our Faith |
16 Jan 2005 08:15:34 AM |
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certainly, in some respects,
Faith is likened to weaponry,
and in that respect, we realize
that we must be trained in
its proper use and care.
at times, it may seem as if your Faith
has governors on it so assure that you
do not cause more trouble than you
may intend to solve.
like as if, you, being blessed with this
great Faith, immediately started asking
mountains to move, and all of a sudden
we have dozens of mountains flying
through the air, some of which, were
quite properly placed from the onset.
in similitude and in likeness and
in actual practice, we can see how
being made able to participate in God's
grand design is itself part of
God's grand design.
even and especially, if the greatest
participation your can offer, is in discovering
what is the will of God and aligning
yourself properly with that.
where this discovery comes at the expense
of your self imposed comfortable dark glasses.
many vessels in the house of God,
and you -can- alter your lot
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| User: "Timothy Sutter" |
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| Title: Re: the power of our Faith |
16 Jan 2005 08:40:52 AM |
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many vessels in the house of God,
and you -can- alter your lot
like we all start out as paper plates,
but we must participate in that work
which would make us a fine porcelain
with golden inlays.
even if some of this participation
is not in seeking the reward, but
in burning the paper which is just
a shadow of God's own spectacular
vision for us.
and in the power of our virtual death
in Christ we can begin to see that we have
passed through the unquenchable flame
of God's own Presence to find ourselves
mingling in the Holiest of all Holy places
where the Eternal Glory of God is known.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: the power of our Faith |
16 Jan 2005 11:29:54 PM |
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Timothy Sutter wrote:
certainly, in some respects,
Faith is likened to weaponry,
and in that respect, we realize
that we must be trained in
its proper use and care.
and God uses our life circumstances to do just this.
God gives us our Faith, and shows us how
to enter in to agreement with the will of God.
and...
Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to
evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of,
the lack of evidence.
[Richard Dawkins]
"Faith is to the human what sand is to the ostrich"
It was the schoolboy who said: "Faith is believing what you
know ain't so."
[Mark Twain (1835-1910)
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| User: "Timothy Sutter" |
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| Title: Re: the power of our Faith |
17 Jan 2005 04:59:46 AM |
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Timothy Sutter wrote:
certainly, in some respects,
Faith is likened to weaponry,
and in that respect, we realize
that we must be trained in
its proper use and care.
and God uses our life circumstances to do just this.
God gives us our Faith, and shows us how
to enter in to agreement with the will of God.
and...
bob young wrote:
Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to
evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
when you hold a stone in your hand
you believe that when you release
it from your grasp, that it will
fall to the ground.
you may say to yourself, that
every time you have ever released
a stone from your grasp, it has
always fallen to the ground,
but as long as you hold the stone
in your hand, you have only that
belief that your memories of some
past event are a faithful representation
of the reality which has yet to come forth.
their is no proof that the stone will
fall to the ground other than your
confident assurance that some future
event will resemble all past events.
the fact comes into being as you
let go of the stone, and yet, you
feel you know for sure, that the
stone will fall each and every
time you let go of it.
the proof happens when you let go, but
you have never been disappointed and so,
you feel that you can never be disappointed.
and this becomes your unquestioned reality.
and that is the nature of the thing itself,
your descriptions of past events become
more precise to the point where you can
make relevant statements about future events.
when and if these future event predictions
are brought in to reality, you can then
maintain that your descriptions of past
events resemble the truth.
but each time, the -proof- is
in the letting go of the stone.
Faith is that confidant assurance that
you are going to be pleased and can be
likened to that certain knowledge you
have that when you release a stone
from your hand it will fall
to the ground.
this begins to describe the
activity of the Spirit
in your life.
and now, we would turn to the Truth of God
and begin to suggest that the good news of
God's own tranquility, resting upon your
shoulders, is a confident haven, in which
you may continually take refuge, and as
you see this blossoming and flourishing
in your own life, is also a realization
of the Truth of God as the description
of past present and future states
of unmeritted blessing.
this confident assurance cannot disappoint
you as each time you step out in faith you
are rewarded with the gladness that accompanies
God's own Presence.
So, your own personal description of
the reality of God becomes more precise
to that point where you can make confident
declarations about things that have not
yet ocurred as though they have
already taken place.
and faith meets Faith
you see peaceful Unity with God
you begin to know Love.
we suggest, without a doubt;
God knows when God sets out to do
a fine work, God will be pleased.
we suggest that God knew that man
would not bring forth a pleasing
scent when left to his own devices,
it becomes important that -we-
see that just as God sees that.
God can only begin that work in
you when you offer up this sort of
conscious understanding of God as
the only real source of
all things good.
God knows full well that you will be
a child of God after God's own heart
in whom God is very well pleased
when God places that heart within you.
and this is the sort of 'prayer' that
rises to God as a "sweet smelling inscence."
not a 'prayer' which would only serve your
covetous desire but a primary acknowledgement
of your desire to see God as God in you.
in this way the pleasant nature
will land on your shoulders and
you will see peace.
it's that simple.
bob young wrote:
Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of,
the lack of evidence.
[Richard Dawkins]
so, some will state that the only
"knowledge" one may possess is
in the form of:
"empirical sense perception memory impressions"
that's it, that's your knowledge,
that's all you can ever know.
memories of objects you have seen,
heard, smelled, tasted and or touched.
all we claim is that the Holy Spirit
leaves a memory impression but, itself,
clicks no dials on any interferometer.
backtrack for a moment to the nature
of language and knowledge dissemination.
bascially, all linguistic
efforts by man are of
this form;
you have a sensory stimulus,
and you have a verbal utterance.
you a take verbal utterance
and arbitrarily attach it
to a sensory stimulus.
that is, a set of persons 'agrees'
that the vocalized effort, "bloo" shall
be attached to the sensory stimuli of
of what they see when they stare up
at the midday sky on a clear day.
so, now, when they are removed from the
sensory stimulus, they can relate the
persistent memories of that stimulus
to each other -without- the sensory
stimulus being present.
that is, they can speak of their memories
of the midday sky, at nighttime, and amongst
people of the grouping that have seen the
midday sky, and have agreed that that
stimulus shall be referred to as "bloo"
this communication effort falls
apart for people outside of the group.
that is, some other group may have attached
the verbal utterance "bloo" to the smell of
garlic and when you utter "bloo" to them,
it triggers a different archived memory impression.
fine, language is somewhat arbitrary,
screams of pain being fairly universal.
when describing things you sense with
the big five, you always use similarities
to others things impressed upon you
by the big 5.
language itself is something of a circular argument.
at the foundation of all of your linguistics
is that things are defined by what they are.
"This Thing Is What It Is"
language is a brute force, mechanical, device, at best.
don't let -it- abuse -you-
use -it- with care.
"sweet potatoes are orange"
what is "orange"?
"orange is the color of sweet potatoes"
it's all mostly an arbitrary assignment.
there's no fundamental reason why
"sweet potatoes" and "orange"
should be tossed together.
they are just tags for memory impression triggers.
anyway, back to the Holy Spirit,
by the very nature of the experience,
attaching vocal utterance to it presents
some clear difficulties.
to what shall one 'liken' the memory
impression of a stimulus that clicks
no dials on any interferometer?
we suggest that God resembles a "Rock"
in what way does God resembles a "Rock"?
the -type- of memory impression
that you gain when you inspect some
artifact as 'concrete' as a rock,
is left behind by the Holy Spirit.
you distance yourself from a rock that
you have inspected, you carry a memory
impression of that rock with you
wherever you go.
you meet Jesus thru the Holy Spirit
and you carry away a definite
memory impression that Lives.
one minor difference,
your memory of a granite stone is static,
and your memory of Christ thru the
Holy Spirit is dynamic.
you don't 'see' God with your eyes,
but your mind is impressed with
a Living memory.
that's the closest i can put the experience
into words that you may have some sort of
common experience with which to compare.
now, i've already gone to some lengths
to acquaint you with the non-atomic universe.
so, you are -not- free to tell me
that i am remembering things
that have no existance.
because we've already shown you that
the things which you -do- see and hear
and taste and feel and smell, by necessity,
emanated from some 'thing' that you
can -not- likewise experience.
that is, all citations of genesis from
singularity reduce to a severe acknowledgement
of a 'physically unknowable' 'non-atomic' world.
that is, a world that can -not- be visited with
the empirical sensory apparatus is absolutely
necessitated by genesis from singularity.
the only thing left is to check and test
that -my- empirical sensory apparatus is
functioning properly.
which i do on a regular basis and can
rest assured that my apparatus is
suffering from -no- organic damage.
i do not receive persistent memory impressions
of artifacts that i have -not- experienced.
and the memory impressions left by artifacts
that i am experiencing well reflect the
acknowledgement of standard by concensus.
that is, if i tell you
that the sky is blue and
has some clouds,
when i fully describe that experience,
anyone in the set of people who use the
same vocal utterance will be able to
recognize my description as
'correct' by 'agreement'.
the best a 'non-believer' can say with regards
to God is that they have -not- the same
experience, and therefore they do -not-
comprehend even my very best linguistic
efforts at description.
what they can -not- even -suggest- is
that what i am experiencing is a phantom.
there should be enough here that i don't
need to reprise the details as to why
such a proclamation is unfounded.
bob young wrote:
"Faith is to the human what sand is to the ostrich"
there's a bunch of disembodied spirits
gathered around a small stone.
ok, so, they're all
just looking at a stone.
and God begins to speak,
God says;
"look at that stone, look at how it just
sits there and never moves unless some
other force comes along and moves it.
we all see how the water falls over
the cliff and the apple falls from
a tree and comes to rest nearer
the center of the earth.
that stone will not move from its rest"
and then God pipes up further;
"now watch as we bring about the being,
made of that same stuff as the stone and
the water and the apple, that can sit down,
stand up, walk itself across the room and
then sit back down all under its own volition."
and the disembodied spirits say;
"nah, you're kidding, a rock
that moves itself across
the pasture?
God is having us on"
and God says;
"no, here, watch"
and this blob of earth just gets
up and walks across the pasture
and sits down next to the
babbling brook.
and the spirits are dumbfounded.
"wow, a stone that motivates itself;
how utterly fascinating and nearly incredible,
what an awesome God"
bob young wrote:
It was the schoolboy who said:
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
[Mark Twain (1835-1910)
no, that would be coercion of the truth.
like someone twisting people's arms
and demanding that there is no Christ
when they know that there is Christ.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: the power of our Faith |
18 Jan 2005 11:38:15 PM |
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Timothy Sutter wrote:
Timothy Sutter wrote:
certainly, in some respects,
Faith is likened to weaponry,
and in that respect, we realize
that we must be trained in
its proper use and care.
and God uses our life circumstances to do just this.
God gives us our Faith, and shows us how
to enter in to agreement with the will of God.
and...
bob young wrote:
Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to
evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
when you hold a stone in your hand
you believe that when you release
it from your grasp, that it will
fall to the ground.
you may say to yourself, that
every time you have ever released
a stone from your grasp, it has
always fallen to the ground,
but as long as you hold the stone
in your hand, you have only that
belief that your memories of some
past event are a faithful representation
of the reality which has yet to come forth.
their is no proof that the stone will
fall to the ground other than your
confident assurance that some future
event will resemble all past events.
the fact comes into being as you
let go of the stone, and yet, you
feel you know for sure, that the
stone will fall each and every
time you let go of it.
the proof happens when you let go, but
you have never been disappointed and so,
you feel that you can never be disappointed.
and this becomes your unquestioned reality.
and that is the nature of the thing itself,
your descriptions of past events become
more precise to the point where you can
make relevant statements about future events.
when and if these future event predictions
are brought in to reality, you can then
maintain that your descriptions of past
events resemble the truth.
but each time, the -proof- is
in the letting go of the stone.
Faith is that confidant assurance that
you are going to be pleased and can be
likened to that certain knowledge you
have that when you release a stone
from your hand it will fall
to the ground.
this begins to describe the
activity of the Spirit
in your life.
and now, we would turn to the Truth of God......
You people love that word 'truth'. You have so many sermons
and services devoted to 'Truth'
Why is that? Well the reason is you have to keep hammering
away at the subject since there is nothing at all in your
dogma to show any real truth at all.
By the way, your stone in the hand analogy is pathetic and
shows how weak mythology and religious belief really is.
Hard to claim your parents told you lies isn't it? There
are so many in this same boat.
Religious indoctrination below the age of ten should be
against the law.
Writing a very long post going over the same concepts time
and time again shows nothing other than the fact you are
deeply saturated within a [Note under ‘African Gods’ the
number devoted to ‘Supremacy’]
Allah, Aphrodite, Ares, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Babaluaye,
Bacchus,
Baldur, Bast, Bellona, Brahma, Brigid, Ceres, Cupid,
Cerridwen,
Demeter, Diana, Dione, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Eleggua, , El
Shaddai, Elohim Eshu, Ereshkigal,
Frigga, Frey, Freya, Gaea, Lord Genesa, Hades, Hebe, Hera,
Helios, Hel, Hephaestus,
Hermes, Hestia, Horus, Ibeji, Ifa, Inanna, Indra, Ishana,
Ishtar,
Isis, Janus, Juno, Jehovah, Jove, Jupiter, Kali. Krishna
Kronos, Korravai,
Loki, Lugh, Lord Indra, Manitou, Mars, Mercury, Minerva,
Mercurius, Morrigan,
Nahuiquiahuitl, Nanahuatzin, Nephthys, Neptune, Obatala,
Odin, Ogun,
Oshosi, Oshun, Osiris, Oya, Orunmila, Olokun, Olodumare,
Pluto,
Persephone, Poseidon, Proserpina, Quetzalcoatl, Ra, Lord
Rama, Rhea, Saturn, Set,
Selene, Shango, Lord Siva, Tammuz, Thor, Tir, Tiw, Uranus,
Venus, Vesta, Vishnu,
Vesta, Vulcan, Wotan, Yahweh, Yemaya, Zeus.
African gods:
Note how many are devoted to 'Supremacy'
Abassi [Sky]
Abonsam [Evil]
Abora [Supreme]
Abzu [Water]
Acoran [Supreme]
Adaheli [Sun]
Adro [Sky]
Adroa [Sky]
Agassou [Panther]
Agbe-Naete [Water]
Age [Animals]
Aigamuxa [Monster]
Ajalamo[Unborn Children]
Aje [Wealth]
Ajok [Supreme]
Akonadi [Oracle]
Akongo [Supreme]
Akuj [Supreme]
Ala [Earth/Fertility]
Alatangana [Creator]
Amma [Creator]
Anansi [Trickster]
Anyiewo [Snake]
Aondo [Creator]
Apa [Creator]
Apedemak [War]
Arawa [Moon]
Arebati [Sky]
Arom [Contracts]
Arsan Duolai [Underworld]
Asase Ya [Earth]
Ashiakle [Wealth]
Asis [Sun]
Astar [Sky]
Ataa Naa
Nyongmo [Creator]
Ataokoloinona [Supreme]
Atete [Fertility]
Avrikiti [Fishermen]
Ayabba
[Ayaba] [Hearth]
Bacax [Cave]
Bagba [Wind]
Balubaal [Earth+]
Bandara [Superior Gods]
Banga [Clear water]
Behanzin [Fish]
Beher [Sea]
Bera Pennu [Vegetation]
Bo [Warriors]
Bomazi[Ancestors]
Buadza [WInd]
Buck[River]
Buku [Sky]
Bumba [Creator]
Cagn [Creator]
(!Kaggen)
Cghene [Creator]
Chiuke
(Chuku) [Creator]
Chiata [Supreme]
Chwezi [Hero]
Col [Rain]
Chikara [Sky]
Danh
(Dan Ayido Hwedo) [Snake]
Deng [Sky]
Deohako [Beans+]
Dii Mauri [Moorish Gods]
Dongo [Outer Space]
Dugbo [Earth]
Dxui [Creator]
Emeli-hi [Supreme]
Eranoranhan [Protector]
Eshu (Elegba) [Trickster]
Fa [Destiny]
Famien [Fertility]
Faro [Sky/Water]
Fidi Mukullu [Creator]
Garang and Abuk [First Humans]
Gbeni [Chief]
Gei (Gou) [Moon]
Gu [War/Smiths]
Gua [Sky]
Gulu [Supreme]
Gunab [Evil]
Guruhi [Evil]
Gurzil [Bull]
Gwalu [Rain]
Hammon [Setting Sun]
Harun and Haruna [Water Spirits]
Heitsi-Eibib [Sorcerer]
Hevioss [Thunder]
Huntin [Tree]
Huvean [Creator]
Ifa [Oracul]
Ikenga [Supreme]
Imana [Creator]
Iruwa [Sun]
Juok [Creator]
Kalumba [Creator]
Kalunga Supreme]
Katavi [Demonic]
Ka Tyeleo [Supreme]
Khebieso [Lightening]
Kho-dumo-dumo [Demon]
Kholomodumo [Monster]
Khuzwane [Creator]
Kibuka [War]
Kokola [Guardian]
Kwammang-a [Supreme]
Kwoth [Spirit]
Kyala [Creator]
Legba [Trickster]
Leza [Chief]
Libanza [Supreme]
Lisa [Chameleon]
Lyangombe[Chief]
Macardit [Demon]
Mantis [Creator]
Massim-Biambe [Creator]
Mawu [Sky]
Mawu-Lisa [Supreme Couple]
Mbotumbo [Supreme]
Medr [Earth]
Moomb [Creator]
Mon [?]
Mugasa
Mugu [Sky]
Mujaji [Rain]
Mukasa [Supreme]
Mula Djadi [Creator]
Muluku [Supreme]
Mulungu
Mungu [Creator]
Mungo (Mungu) [?]
Musa (Teaching]
Musisi [Supreme]
Mwari [Supreme]
Nampa [Personal]
Nana-Bouclou [First Gods]
Nana Buluk [Creator]
Ndjambi [Sky]
Ndriananahary [Supreme]
Nduru [Jungle]
Nenaunir [Storm]
Nesshoue [River]
Ngai ('Ngai) [Creator]
Ngewo-wa [Creator]
Ngworekara [Demon]
Niamye [Supreme]
Nkosi Yama'kosi [Supreme]
Nommo [Elemental]
Nommo [Spirit]
Nyama [Animal]
Nyambe [Supreme]
Nyambi (Nyambe) [Supreme]
Nyame
Nyami-Nyami [Guardian]
Nyankopon (Ashanti:Nyame) [Supreme]
Nyamia Ama [Supreme]
Nyasaye [Supeme]
Nzambi (Nzambi)
Mpunguo) [Supreme]
Nzame [Supreme]
Obassi Osaw [Supreme]
Obatala [Sky]
Oduduwa (Odudua) [Earth]
Ogun (Ogoun) War]
Olokula [Sea]
Olorun [Supreme]
Omumbo-Rombonga [Tree of Life]
Orahan [Supreme]
Orisa Nla [Creator]
Orishako [Agriculture]
Orunjan [Midday Sun]
Orunmila [Compassion]
Oshalla [?]
Osun [Beauty and Love]
Oya [Passion and Power]
Pemba (Bemba) Mother]
Qandisa [Demon]
Qamata[Quamta] Supreme]
Rock-Sene [Supreme]
Ruwa [Supreme]
Sagbata [Smallpox]
Sakarabru [Medicine]
Sakpata [Smallpox]
Sango [Thunder]
Shango [Thunder]
So [Lightening]
Tano [River]
Tore [Forest]
Trowu[Spirits]
Tsui'goab [Rain]
Twe [Lake]
Umvelinqangi [Creator]
Unkulunkulu [Supreme]
Unumbotte [Creator]
Waka [Rain]
Wele [Supreme]
Wulbari [Supreme]
Wuni [Supreme]
Xewioso [Thunder]
Yemaja [Creation]
Yo [Impersonal]
Zin [Water]
Table of Asian Gods:
BUDDHIST
Abhijnaraja [Physician]
Abhimukhi [One of the Bhumis]
Acala [?]
Adhimukticarya [One of the Bhumis]
Adhimuktivasita [One of the Bhumis]
Adibuddha [First]
Adidharma [Primeval]
Aizen Myo-o [Protective]
Ajaya [?]
Akasagarbha(Tibetan Nam-mkhai
Aksayajnana-Karmanda [Literature]
Aksobhya (Japanese Ashuku, Chinese A-Chu'u) [One of the
Dhyani]
Amida [Savior]
Amitabha [A Dhyani]
Amitayus [Longevity]
Amoghapasa [see Avalokitesvara]
Amoghasiddhi [A Dhyani]
Anantamukhi [Literature]
Arapacana [Book and Sword]
Arcismati [Bhumis]
Arhat [A Saint]
Arthapratisamvit [Logical Analysis]
Arya-Tara [Sakti]
Asokakanta [avatar Marici]
Asokottamasri [Physician]
Astabhuja-Kurukulla [avatar Kurukulla]
Asura [Group of Demons]
Avalokitesvara(Avalokita, Lokesvara) [Dhyani Present Age]
Ayurvasita[One vasitas]
Balaparamita [Philosophy]
Bhaisajyaguru(Sman-bla, Otaci,Yao-shih-fo,
Yakushi)[Physician]
Bhima[Attendant]
Bhrkuti[Female]
Bhrkuti-Tara [Mother]
Bhumi [Spiritual Spheres]
Bhutadarma [Demon Controller]
Bi-har [Protector]
Bodhidharma [Monk]
Bodhisattva (Chinese Pu-sa) [Born to be Englightened]
Buddhabodhiprabhavasita [Vasitas]
Buddhalocana [Female Buddha]
Budha [Mercury]
Butcho [?]
Chandarosana [Mahayana]
Charcika (Carcika) [Mahayana]
Chakravartin [World Ruler]
Chattrosnisa [An Usnisa]
Chaturmaharajas (Caturmaharajas) [Four Great Kings]
Chittavista [Vashitas]
Citipati [Graveyard Demons]
Cunda [Literature]
Da-shi-zhi [Bodhisattva]
Dadimunda [Temples]
Dainichi' [Purity/Wisdom]
Dakini [Demons]
Dala Kadavara [Demon]
Devaputra [Gods of Lower Rank]
Dhanada [avatar Amoghasiddhi]
Dharani [Mystical Texts]
Dharmadhatuvagisvara [Dharma]
Dharmakirtisagaraghosa [Physician]
Dharmamegha [Bhumis]
Dharmapala ,Chinese Fu Ha [Protective Dieties]
Dharmapratisamvit [Nature Analysis]
Dharmavasita [Vasitas]
Dhritarashtra (Pali Dhatarattha) [One of the 4 World
Guardians]
Dhupa [Mother]
Dhupatara [Mahayana]
Dhvajagrakeyura [avatar Aksobhya]
Dhyanaparamita [Philosophy]
Dhyani-Bodhisattvas [Five Bodhisattvas]
Dhyani-Buddhas [Five Meditators]
Di-zang [Bodhisattvas of Hell]
Dvarapala [?]
Ekajata [Terrible]
Emma-o [Judges the Dead]
Fudo [WIsdom]
Guan Yin [bodhisattva]
Hariti [Ate Children]
Hayagriva [Protection]
Heruka [Protection]
Hevajra [Protection]
Ida-Ten [Law/Monestaries]
Jambhala [avatar Vausravana]
Janguli [Snakebite cure]
Jian Lao [Earth/Permanence]
Jizo [Compassion]
Juichimen [Mercy]
Kali devia [avatar Lha-mo]
Kannon [Japanese bodhisattva]
Khasarpana(Khasarpana-Lokesvara) [Indian bodhisattva]
Ki Fudo [avatar Fudo-Myo-o]
Krodhadevatas [Inspire Terror]
Ksitigarbha [One of 8 bodhisattva]
Kuan-yin (Kwannon) [Mercy]
Kujaku Myoo [Esoteric]
Kurukulla [?]
Locana [?]
Mahasthamaprata [Chinese bodhisattva]
Maitreya [Future]
Manjughosa [Nepalese bodhisattva]
Manjusri [bodhisattva]
Mara [Evil]
Marici [Sun]
Mi-lo Fo (Pu-Sa) [Chinese bodhisattva
Miroku [Japanese bodhisattva
Mo-Li [Protects Temples]
Padmanartesvara [avatar Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara]
Pancaraksa[5 Goddesses]
Pandara [?]
Paramasva [?]
Parnasavari [?]
Prajna [Femaleness]
Prajnaparamita [Buddhist Text]
Ran-deng [Beggar and Future Buddha]
Ratnapani [Dhyani-Bodhisattva]
Ratnasambhava [Dhyani-Buddha]
Remanta [King of the Horse gods]
Sakyamuni [Japanese]
Samantabhadra [Bodhisattvas]
Saptaksara [avatar Heruka]
Shakra [King of the Gods]
Ssu Ta T'ien Wang [Kings of Heaven]
Sumbharaja [Buddhist Krodhadevata]
Tennin (Tennyo) [angels]
Usnisavijaya [?]
Vairocana [Dhyani-Buddhas]
Vaisravana (Pali Vessavana, Chinese Do Wen) [Guards World]
Vajrabhairava [?]
Vajrapani [Bodhisattvas]
Vajrasattva [Nepal Dhyani-Buddha]
Vajravarahi [?]
Vajrayogini [Initiation]
Vajrayogini [Riches]
Vidyadharas [?]
Vidyujjvalakarali [?]
Vighnantaka [?]
Virudhaka (Pali Virulha, Chinese Zheng Zhang) [Guards World]
Virupaksa (Pali Virupakkha, Chinese Guand Mu) [Guards
Western Heaven]
Visvapani [Dhyani-Bodhisattva]
We-to [Divine General]
Yakushi Nyorai [Healing]
Yama [?]
Yamantaka [Krodhadevatas]
Zhu Dian (Zhu Tian) [Chinese Buddhist gods]
CHINESE GODS
Ao [Sea]
Awun [Destruction]
Ba [Drought]
Ba Gua [Basis of Divination]
Bo Hsian [Taoist]
Cai-Shen [Riches]
Can Cong [Silkworms]
Cao Guo-jiu [Actors]
Chang Fei [War]
Chang Hs'ien [Children]
Chang Kuo-lao [?]
Ch'ang E (Ch'ang-o Huang E) [Moon]
Chang Tao Ling [Afterlife]
Cheng-huang (Ch'eng Huang) [Guardians]
Chen Jen [Spiritual Beings]
Cheng San-Kung [Fishermen]
Cheng Yuan Ho (Ch'ang-o Huang E) [Buskers]
Chih Nu [Weavers]
Chih Sung-Tzu (Chi Sung Tzu) [Rain]
Chih-Yu [Inventor]
Ch'in-Shu-Pao [Guardian]
Chou Wang [Sodomy]
Chu-Chuan Shen [Pigsties]
Chu Jung [Fire]
Chu Lung [Day/Night]
Chung K'uei [Afterlife]
Chung-li Ch'uan [Immortal]
Confucius [Philosopher]
Di Zhang Xia [?]
Dong-yo Da-di [Helps Sky God]
Erh-Lang [Guardian]
Fan-K'uei [Butchers]
Fei Lien (Fei Lian) [Wind]
Feng-Huang (Hoang-female Phuong-male) [Many Meanings]
Feng Po (Feng-Po) [Human form of the wind]
Feng P'o-p'o (Feng-Po-Po) [Female wind]
Fo [Buddha]
Fu His [Taught Humanity]
Fu Hsing [Happiness]
Fu Shen [Happiness]
Fu-Shou-Lu [Collection of Gods]
Fu-xi [Hero]
Gao Yao (Ting-jian) [Judgement]
Gong Gong [Common Workers]
Gou Mang and Ru Shou [Messengers]
Guan Di (Kuan Ti) [War/Fortune Telling]
Gui Xian [Demon]
Han Hsiang [Immortal]
Han Xiang-zi [Immortal]
He Bo (Bing-yi) [Rivers]
Heng E (Change-e) [Moon]
He Xian-gu [Immortal]
Heng-Ha-Erh-Chiang [Temples]
Heng-o [Moon]
Ho Hsien-ku [Immortal]
Ho Po [River]
Hou Chi [Harvest]
Hou I [Archer]
Hou T'u [Earth]
Hsien [Taoists]
Hsi Ho [Sun's Creator]
Hsi Wang Mu [Guardian]
Hsuan-T'ien-Shang-Ti [Dark Heaven]
Hua Hsien [Flower]
Huang-di (Huang Ti) (Shun) [Hero]
Huang Fei-hu (Fei) [Mountain]
Hu-Shen [Hail]
I [Bowmen]
Infoniwoo [Generation]
I-Ti [Wine]
K'ai Lu Shen [Purges Evil]
Kuan Yu [War]
K'uei Hsing [Examinations]
Lan Cai-he [Immortal]
Lao T'ien Yeh [Supreme]
Lao-Tzu (Lao-zi) [Philosopher]
Lei Kung [Storm]
Lei-zi [Thunder]
Li [Fire]
Li Tie-guai [Immortal]
Liu [Crops]
Lu Dong-bin (Lu Yan) [Immortal]
Lu-Hsing [Salaries/Employees]
Lung Wang [Dragon King]
Lupan [Carpenters]
Ma-Mien [Bureaucrat]
Meng (Meng P'o) [Underworld]
Meng-T'ien [Writing Brush]
Men Shen [Doors, includes sometimes Wei Cheng]
Mu Gong [Immortals]
Niu-Y'oun [Police]
Nu Gua (Nu Kua, Nu Wa) [Creator and Marriage]
O-Mi-T'o Fo [Amitabha]
Pa [Drought]
Pa-Cha [Anti-locusts]
Pa-Hsien [Eight Immortals]
P'an-Chin-Lien [Prostitues]
'P'an Ku (Panku, Pangu) [Cosmos]
Pi-Hsia-Yuan-Chun [Childbirth]
Puhsien [Sun]
Ran-deng [Future Buddha]
San Ch'inga [Three Taos]
Shang Di (Shang Ti) [Supreme]
She Chi (Thu) [Earth]
Shen [Spirit]
Sheng Jen [Holy]
Shen-nong(Shen Nung) [Hero]
Shen-T'u [Guardian]
Shen Yi [Sun]
Shiang Ku [Magician]
Shih-Tien Yen-Wang [Committe of Ten]
Shou-Hsing [Longevity]
Shou Lao (Shou Xing Lao Tou-zi) [Long Life]
Shou-Ts'ang [Servant]
Shui-Fu [Water]
Shui-Kuan [Defender]
Ssu Ming [Life and Death]
Sung-Chiang [Theives]
Sun Hou-Tzu [Monkey]
Sun Hou-zi [Apes]
Sun-Pin [Cobblers]
T'ai I [High]
Tai-sui-xing [Time]
Tai-yi [Sky]
T'ai Yueh Ta Ti (Tung-Yueh-Ta-Ti, T'ai-Yo, Ta-Ti) [Peak]
Thu [Earth]
Tian [Sky]
Tian-zhu [Catholic]
Tien (T'ien) [Sky]
Tien-Hou (T'ien Fei) [Heaven]
T'ien-Kuan [Happiness]
T'ien Lung [Dragon]
Tien Mu [Lightening]
Tien-Wang (Mo-Li) [Kings]
Ti-Kuan [Foregiveness]
Ti Nu (Ti-ya) [Earth]
Ti-Tsang-Wang-Pu-Sa [Mercy]
Ti Yu [Afterlife]
Tou Nu [North Star]
Ts'ai-Lun [Stationers]
Ts'ai Shen [Wealth]
Tsan [Demons]
Ts'ang Chien [Hearth]
Tsao Shen [?]
Tsao-Wang [Hearth]
Tu [Earth]
Tung Wang Kung [Ruled Male Immortals]
T'u-ti (Ti-Ti) [Locality]
Wang [Palace Door]
Wang-Mu-Niang-Niang [Guardian]
Wen Ch'ang (Wen-Chang-Ta-Ti) [Literature]
Wen-Shu Yen-K'ung [Manjushri]
Wen Pu [Epidemics]
Wu Ti [Myth]
Xian [Spirits]
Xi-Wang-mu [Immortality]
Yama [Seventh hell]
Yan-lo (Yan Wang) [Underworld Prince]
Yao [Wind Conqueror]
Yao-shi-fo [Physician]
Yao Wang [Medicine]
Yeng-Wang-Yeh [Death]
Yen Wang (Yen Lo) [Underworld Judge]
Yin and Yang [Male and Female]
Yo Fei [War]
Yu-Chiang [Ocean Winds]
Yu-di (Yu Huang) [Supreme]
Yueh Fei [War]
Yu Huang (Yu-Huang-Shang-Ti) [High]
Yun T'ung [Clouds]
Yu-qiang [Sea]
Yu Shih [Rain]
Yu-tzu [Rain]
Zao Jun [Kitchen]
Zhang Guo-lao [Immortal]
Zhong-Kui [Literature and Examinations]
Zhong-li Quan [Immortal]
[Sources: Brief History of Ancient Chinese Mythology]
Finnish Gods:
Ahto [Water]
Akka [Harvest]
Egres [Vegetation/Fertility]
Hiisi [Forest/Evil]
Ilma [Air]
Ilmarinen [Sky]
Inmar [Sky]
Juma [Sky]
Jumala (Mader-Atcha, Ukk) [Thunder+]
Kalevanpojat [Demons]
Kalma [Death]
Kekri [Fertility Feast]
Kipu-Tytto [Illness]
Kondos [Sowing Crops]
Kuu [Moon]
Lemminkainen [Hero]
Louhi [Sorcery/Evil]
Loviatar [Disease]
Luonnotar [Creator]
Madderakka [Dwarves]
Maahiset [Dwarves]
Naaki [Water]
Nyrckes [?]
Olmai (Olmay) [Divine properties]
Pajainen [?]
Pajonn [Thunder]
Para [Goblin Like]
Pellonpekko [Barley]
Raudna [?]
Rutu [Devil]
Sampsa [Vegetation]
Seides [Stones]
Rauni [?]
Tapio [Forest]
Tiermes [Thunder]
Tuoni [Underworld
Tursas [Monster]
Ukko (Isainen) [Thunder]
Vainamoinen [Hero]
Veralden-radien [World Pillars]
Waralden Olmai [World]
JAPANESE GODS
Aji-Suki-Taka-Hi-Kone (Aji-Shiki-Taka-Hiko-Ne) [Thunder]
Ama-No-Minakanushi-No-Kumi [Pole Star]
Ame-No-Oshido-Mimi [Refusal]
Ama-No-Uzume [Fertility]
Ama-Tsu-Kami [Heavenly Gods]
Amatsu Mikaboshi [Evil]
Ame-No-Hohi [Disappeared]
Ame-No-Wakahiko [Ruled Earth]
Bimbo-Gami [Poverty]
Bishamon [War]
Chimata-No-Kami [Rain/Sea]
Daikoku [Wealth]
Ebisu [Labor]
Fuchi [Fire]
Fukurokuju (Fukuro kuju) [Wisdom]
Futsunushi [Lightening]
Gozu-Tenno [Plague]
Haya-Ji (Haya-Tsu-Muji-No-Kami) [Whirlwind]
Hikohohodemi [Hero]
Hinokagutsuchi [Fire]
Hiruko [Morning Sun]
Hoderi [?]
Hisa-Me [Devils]
Ho-Masubi (Kagu Zuchi) [Fire]
Hosuseri [?]
Hotei [Laughter]
Inari [Prosperity]
Izanagi [Creator]
Izanami [Mother]
Jikoku [Guardians]
Jimmu Tenno [Founder]
Jurojin (Jorojin) [Longevity]
Kagu-tsuchi [Fire]
Kamado-gami [Hearth]
Kami [Divinities]
Kami-Musubi (Kami-mi-masubi) [?]
Kami-Nari [Thunder]
Kamui [Sky]
Kappa [Water]
Kawa-No-Kami [Rivers]
Kishijoten [Luck]
Kishimojin [Demon]
Komoku [South]
Kompira [Wealth]
Kono-Hana-Sakuya-Hime (Kono-no-hana-saku-ya-hime) [?]
Kono-Hana-Sakuya-Hime Kuni-Toko-tachi [First]
Kuni-Tsu-Kami [Earth]
Kura-Okami [Rain/Snow]
Nai-No-Kami [Earthquakes]
Naka-Yama-Tsu-Mi [Mountain Slopes]
Ningyo [Mermaid]
Ninigi [Ruler Earth]
O-Kuni-Nushi (Okuninushi) [Medicine/Sorcery]
Onamuji [Earth]
Omiwa [Protective]
Oni [Demons]
O-Wata-Tsumi [Sea]
O-Yama-Tsu-Mi (O-yama-tsuni) [Mountain]
Raiden [Thunder]
Ryo-Wo [Sea]
Ryujin (Ryugin) [Thunder/Rain]
Sae-No-Kami [Roads]
Sengen-Sama [Guarded Holy Moutain]
Sennin [Immortals]
Shichi-Fukujin [Luck]
Shiko-Me [Devils]
Shine-Tsu-Hiko [Wind]
Shitatera-Hime [?]
Shi-tenno [Cardinal Direction Guardians]
Shojo [Satyrs]
Soko-No-Kuni [Underworld]
Suitengu [Sea]
Sukuna-bikone (Suku-na-biko) [Hot Springs]
Shoki [Enemy of Devils]
Susanowo (Susanoo, Susa-no-wo) [Storms]
Takamimusubi (Taka-mi-masubi) [Royal Family]
Takemikadzuchi [Thunder]
Take-Mi-Musubi [Sun]
Taki-Tsu-Hiko [Rain]
Tatsuta-hime [Autumn]
Ten-gu (Tengu) [Mountain/Forest]
Tenjin (Temmangu) [Learning/Calligraphy]
Tsuki-Yomi (Tsukiyomi) [Moon]
Uji-gami [Ancestors]
Uke-Mochi-No-Kami (Ukemochi, Waka-Uke-Nomi, Toyo-Uke-Bime)
[Fertility and Food]
Uzume [Mirth]
Wakahiru-me [Rising Sun]\
Wata-tsu-mi [Sea]
Yabune [House]
Zocho [South]
Shinto Amaterasu [Sun]
Ama-Tsu-Mara [Smiths]
Ame-No-Kagase-Wo [Astral]
Ame-No-Mi-Kumari-No-Kami [Water]
Amenominakanushi (Ame-No-Minaka-Nushi-No-Kami) [Supreme]
Am-No-Tanabata-Hime-No-Mikoto [Weavers]
Ame-No-Toko-Tachi-No-Kami [Elemental]
Ame-no-uzume [Dancers]
Benten (Benten-San, Benzaiten, Benzaiten) [Eloquence+]
Fujin [Wind]
Hachiman [War]
Ho-musubi [Fire]
Kami [Idols]
SOUTH ASIAN GODS
Cao Dai(Chinese: Gao-Tai) [Supreme]
Debata [?]
Empung Luminuut [?]
Hainuwele [?]
Hananim [Sky]
Hmin [Ague]
Karei [Supreme]
Kinharingan [Creator]
Kud [Evil]
Laseo [Sun]
Lature Dano [Supreme]
Lowalangi(Lowalani) [World Above]
Mahatala (Mahataral) [Supreme?]
Ma-zu [?]
Nanmata (Namite) [Primeval]
Narbrooi [Woodlands]
Nemu [Primodial]
Palk [Sun]
Puang Matowa [Sky]
Pulug [Thunder]
Reahu [Dark Demon]
Rigenmucha [Supreme]
Silewe Nazarata [?]
Sirao [First]
Ta Pedn [?]
Tnong [Sun]
Tumbrenjak [Original Man]
Upulevo [Sun]
Wunekau [Sun]
CENRAL AND WEST ASIAN GODS
Abyrga [Snake]
Afi [Rain/Thunderstorms]
Aitvaras [Evil]
Alardi [Spirit]
Aralo [Agriculutre]
Armaz [Supreme]
Auseklis (Ausrine) [Stellar]
Baba [Spirit]
Baba Yaga (Jezi-Baba) [Ogress]
Bagvarti [?]
Bangputys [Sea]
Bannik [Baths]
Bagisht [Flood/Prosperity]
Barastir (Barastaer) [Underworld]
Bardha [Elves]
Beg-tse (Cam-srin) [War]
Beng [Satan]
Biegg-Olmai [Wind]
Bogatyri [Heroes]
Boldogasszony (Kisboldogasszony) [Protector Women/Children]
Bolla (Bullar) [Demon]
Buga [Supreme]
Bukura e dheut
[Good Spirit]
Bukuri e qiellit [Jehovah]
Byelobog (Bielbog) [?]
Byelun [?]
Chernobo(Czarnobog, Czerneboch, Cernobog) [?]
Chors [Sun]
Dabog [Sun]
Deive [Stone Spirits]
Dieva deli [?]
Dievini [Less Known Gods]
Dievs [Sky]
Djall [Devil]
Domovoi (Domovoy) [Household]
Donbittir [Water/Fish]
Drag-gshed [Eight Terrible Gods]
Dud [Heavenly Spirit]
Dvorovoi [Courtyard]
Dyavo [Demons]
En [?]
Erlik [King of the Dead]
Es [Sky]
Fatit [Destiny]
Fene [Demon]
Gabija (Gabieta, Gabeta) [Fire]
Gabjauja [Corn]
Giltine [Death]
Guta [Demon]
Hadur [War]
Himavat [Himalayas]
Horagalles [War]
Isdustaya and Papaya [Fate]
Isten [Supreme]
Jagaubis [Fire]
Jarovit (Gerovitus) [War]
Jessis [avatar Jupiter]
Jumis [Fertility]
Juras Mate [Water]
Kaka-Guia [Funerary]
Kalvis [Smith]
Karta [Fate]
Kaukas [?]
Khors [Health/Hunting]
Khyung-gai mGo-can [?]
Kikimora [Household]
K'op'ala [Protective]
Kukuth (Kukudhi) [Sickness]
Kulshedra (Kucedre) [Demon]
Kun-tu-bzan-po [Chief Bon]
Kupala [Water/Magic/Herbs]
Kurdalaegon [Blacksmiths]
Laima [Fate]
Lamaria [Hearth]
Laskowice (Leshcia) [Forest]
Lauka Mate [Fields/Fertility]
Laume [Fairy]
Leshy [Forest]
Lha [Bon Gods]
Lhamo [?]
Ljeschi (Lychie) [Fauns and Satyrs]
Ljubi [Demon]
Manzasiri [Primeval]
Mate [Mother]
Mati Syra Zemlya [Earth]
Medeine (Mejdejn) [Woods]
Meness [Moon]
Menulis [Moon]
Meza Mate [Nature]
Mirsa [Light]
Mokos [Fertility]
Mu (rMu) [Heavenly]
Muma Padura [Wood]
Myesyats (Czarnobog, Czerneboch, Cernobog) [Moon]
Nang Lha [Household]
Nari [Demon]
Nari [Sky]
Num [Sky]
Odqan [Fire]
Ora [Protective]
Ordog [Dark]
Pekar (Pehar) [Demon]
Peko [Barley]
Perendi [Jehovah]
Perit [Mountain Spirits]
Perkons [Thunder]
Perkunas [Thunder]
Perun (Peroun) [Thunder]
Polevik [Field]
Poludnitsa [Field]
Pon [Sky]
Porenutius (Porevit) [?]
Preas Eyn [?]
Preas Eyssaur [Destructive]
Preas Prohm [Primeval]
Prende (Prenne) [Love]
Psezpolnica (Polish Poludnica) [Midday]
Pugu [Sun]
Qormusta (Chormusta) [High]
Rugievit [War]
Rusalki (Rusalka) [Water/Woodlands]
Safa [Weapens]
Sanda [?]
Sarkany [Weather]
Saule [Sun]
Saules meitas [?]
Selardi [Moon]
Shen-Lha-od-dkar [Bon]
Shen-rab [Founder Bon]
Sipe Gyalmo [Bon]
Shiwini [Sun]
Shosshu [Smiths]
Siwini [Sun]
Srat [Demon]
Sri [Demon]
Sridevi [?]
Stribog [Winds]
Svantevit (Svantoveit, Svantovitus) [War/Agriculture]
Svarog [Sky]
Syen [Guardian]
Stihi [Demon]
Teljavelik [Heavenly Smith]
Telyaveli [Smiths]
Tengri [Heavenly Beings]
Tesheba [Weather]
Thab-lha [Hearth]
Triglav (Trigelawus) [War]
Uacilla [Thunder/Rain]
Ulgen [Creator]
Urme [Fate]
Usins [?]
Vadatajs [Evil]
Vampire [Soul of Dead]
Veela [Kindess]
Veja mate [Winds]
Veles (Volos) [Underworld]
Velnias [Devil]
Velu mate [Dead]
Verbti [Fire/North Wind]
Vila [Water]
Vilkacis (Lithuanian Vilkatas) [Werewolf]
Vlkodlaks (Vookodlaks) [Werewolf]
Vodnik [Demon]
Vodyanoi [Water]
Volos (Volusu) [Cattle]
We [Supreme]
Xhindi [Spirits]
Yarilo [Love]
Zaltys [Grass Snake]
Zemepatis (Zemempatis) [Supreme]
Zemes mate [Mother]
Zemyna (Zemyneles) [Earth]
Zorya [Guardian]
Zvezda Dennitsa and Zvezda Vechernyaya [Morning and Evening
Star]
SIBERIAN GODS
Ai Tojon [Light]
Ajysyt [Mother]
Anky-Kele [Sea]
Ayi [Creator]
Hittavainen, Hittauanin [Hare-Hunters]
Hinkon [Death Demon]
K'daai [Fire Demon]
Kaltes [The Goddess]
Ke'lets [Death Demon]
Kurkil [Creator]
Kutkinnaku [Good Spirit]
Mayin [Supreme]
Picvu'cin [Hunting/Wild Animals]
Shurdi [Thunderstorms]
Tomam [Bird]
Tomor(Tomorr) [Father Creator]
Xucau [Supreme]
Ye'loje (Pugu) [Sun]
single concept so badly you cannot bring yourself to look
outside of the box you are in.
Want to spend some time explaining to me whether or not
these gods are real?
.
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| User: "Timothy Sutter" |
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| Title: Re: the power of our Faith |
19 Jan 2005 07:36:51 AM |
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Timothy Sutter wrote:
God gives us our Faith, and shows us how
to enter in to agreement with the will of God.
bob young wrote:
Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to
evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
Timothy Sutter wrote:
when you hold a stone in your hand
you believe that when you release
it from your grasp, that it will
fall to the ground.
<...clip...>
this begins to describe the
activity of the Spirit
in your life.
and now, we would turn to the Truth of God......
bob young wrote:
You people love that word 'truth'. You have so
many sermons and services devoted to 'Truth'
i don't need a 'shill' to 'pitch' Jesus to people, so,
while i will acknowledge your plaints, i neither owe
you any conversation nor do i need your presence
to properly present Christ.
be that as it may, i will provide you with
a response which you may turn around
and promptly forget.
but, someone may get something from it.
bob young wrote:
Why is that?
the truth is easier to remember.
in fact, the truth is the easiest
thing to remember.
i like the truth because it's easy to remember.
bob young wrote:
Well the reason is you have to keep hammering
away at the subject since there is nothing at all in
your dogma to show any real truth at all.
you have to be a part of it and
experience God in your life.
you attack words, you cannot
attack the Spirit of God.
you attack words, but you do not address
the arguments that are placed before you.
you simply ignore that which you
cannot address and make these vain
attempts at bullying your position.
you would seek to nullify a real phenomenon
by attacking the words with which it is described.
thinking that if you can reduce the words to nonsense,
you can remove and eliminate the phenomenon.
such is a vain effort on your part.
bob young wrote:
By the way, your stone in the hand analogy is pathetic and
shows how weak mythology and religious belief really is.
this is not a credible argument against
that set of statements concerning Faith.
the fact is, that little stone in hand 'analogy'
is an analytic philosophy of the scientific method.
that you would cast aspersions against
that 'analogy' only serves to demonstrate
that you do not clearly recognize the very
nature of knowledge based on
experiential datums.
bob young wrote:
Hard to claim your parents told you lies isn't it?
There are so many in this same boat.
psst, [waves hand] i'm way over here,
why do you keep swatting away at
your own invention?
you neither know me nor my parents nor anything
related to my upbringing, but you as this 'rational person'
sees fit to make broad generalizations about things
it has absolutely zero factual information to support.
your statements are not even a very good
method to discovery the truth you seek.
very clumsy tactics with no real usefulness.
bob young wrote:
Religious indoctrination below the age
of ten should be against the law.
locking a child in a dark basement
until it is 10 -is- against the law.
some people see fit to feed and nurture
their children and even teach them to
read and write and cipher for themselves.
parents who acknowledge God in their lives
have every right to ackowledge their God
before their children.
albeit, some 'communities' cooperate so
as to grasp a considered methodology by
which to properly present such an
acknowledgement before children,
given that the upbringing of children
is already a task of some considerable weight.
bob young wrote:
Writing a very long post going over the same concepts time
and time again shows nothing other than the fact you are
deeply saturated within a [Note under ‘African Gods’ the
number devoted to ‘Supremacy’]
you say that you have seen my posts before,
but you have never once offered anything in
the way of a well considered, much less
compelling, argument which would
lessen those post's credibility.
you simply skirt addressing what was
offered you in that post//those posts
because you can not answer it/them correctly,
and,instead, proceed to fall back on the effigies
of your own invention that you feel
at home fighting against.
bob young wrote:
Allah, Aphrodite, Ares,
...list of names...
African gods:
Note how many are devoted to 'Supremacy'
...list of names...
Table of Asian Gods:
BUDDHIST
...list of names...
CHINESE GODS
[Sources: Brief History of Ancient Chinese Mythology]
Finnish Gods:
...list of names...
JAPANESE GODS
...list of names...
SOUTH ASIAN GODS
...list of names....
SIBERIAN GODS
...list of names....
considering the -number- of possible
different human "religions" and given
a -potential- for 6 billion different -names-
for gods god or God, how many different
human -attitudes- towards "God" will
we actually find?
---
earning from "God"
appeasement of "God"
indifference to "God"
personal life changing
revelation of God from God.
---
that's basically all there is.
and for all practical purposes,
the first two may be collapsed
into a single attitude;
--
appease and earn from "God"
--
so, you can see quite easily, that
even if you can show an indication
of 6 billion different -names- for;
--
appease and earn from "God"
--
you don't have 6 billion different
"religious practices" based on this,
but just the one.
and that is this notion that one
may appease and earn from "God"
and in this world, "indifference to God"
in actual practice, usually is anything
-but- an actual indifference to "religion"
just remember, the Athenians paid an homage
to an attribute called "wisdom" and sought
this thing out and this was called "religion"
and yet, there was no actual "deity"
aside from man's own psyche.
we only suggest to you that the "wisdom"
they found, if any at all, was earthbound.
which leaves the personal life changing
revelation of God from God as the only
distinguishably different form of "religion"
at any rate, the thing you should become
clear on, is that while people can spin your
head and say "lookie at all the different
religions of the world"
when it comes down to it, you won't be able
to demonstrate more than a small handfull
of actual, different human attitudes and
practices -aimed- _at_ "God"
and just the one where God
takes -aim- _at_ -you-.
don't get bogged down in all the red tape.
God has already satisfied God,
and offers -you- a special Gift
which no human being may ever earn,
take it and keep it, it will never
grow old, nor fail from overuse.
---
earning from "God"
appeasement of "God"
indifference to "God"
personal life changing
revelation of God from God.
---
and this sort of sets up two
different uses of "law" in general.
where one use is as a sort of a voodoo
of actions one may take to ward off
"God's" stern retributions, and
earn some sort of favor,
and the other would be a peering
through the veil into aspects
of the Mind of Christ.
inasmuch as most human beings will hold
the "earn and appease" attitude until
and unless they actually ever meet God,
they will tend to pervert the idea of "law"
into this first characteristic and in so doing,
seek alterations in "law" to fit their own
personality structures, and invent sub-categorical
standard whereby they may apply such 'laws' in
an uneven manner so as to get what they want
when they want it and also, provide themselves
with an edge which would prevent anyone else
from getting the same things in the same manner.
and then, we meet Christ.
and realize that God's Holy One sees no corruption.
we accept our personal identification with Christ
and walk with God as God leads us in to that Holiness
which was meant for us from before we were born.
we don't make changes to the 'law'
we are lead by The Spirit of God into a newness
of Life which we had not found of our own device.
in this new place, we would know Love by nature
and not fall way short of it in personal justifications.
there is a water in the desert.
this water Lives.
bob young wrote:
single concept so badly you cannot bring
yourself to look outside of the box you are in.
disagreement among people who speak
-about- God is summed up best by
the brocolli example.
three people may be served broccoli
prepared in the very same manner by
the very same chef, and when questioned,
all three may provide differing decriptions
of that broccoli, and, based on these,
when questioned about the character of
the chef, they also, may all three
provide somewhat differing attribution.
all, without ever having spoken to
nor meeting with, the chef in person.
people can come to the considered opinion
that a God must exist and make comments
about the cooking without ever having
met the Creator personally.
multiplex opinions about a Being known
to exist based on study of surroundings
is perfectly reasonable.
and so, based solely on examination
of the personal veiwpoint of the Creation
and an assumption that a God is responsible
for this, coupled with an assumption that
this same Creator is responsible for
-everything- they see,
you will indeed, receive manifold
explanation of the Creator.
-but- these assorted descriptions do not
yield a comprehensive understanding of
that Creator who maintains an aloofness
to the material.
we differrentiate between knowing
-of- God and knowing God personally.
that is, one who knows -of- God may make
some false conclusions about the nature
of God based upon his own personal
understanding of his own surroundings.
all we claim is that such personal knowledge
of a personal Deity is not only possible, but
the only way to actually know God and not simply
know something -about- God or -about- what
the nature of the material universe says
about the nature of God.
a nature that is tainted by our own
presence which removes our ability
to maintain an untainted objectivity.
our presence in the world taints
the nature itself to an objective
understanding of that nature.
our own understanding of ourselves
is tainted by personal bias.
we can't just look at
ourselves and say,
"God is a liar a cheat a thief
and a murderer who does charitable
works when the mood strikes"
somewhat like the broccoli example;
several people may read the bible and
get variant reckonings depending
their understanding of the author.
that is, someone who may believe that a God exists
based on inspection of their worldly surroundings,
but has no personal relationship with God, will
approach reading the bible thru a filter of a
preconceived nature of God for the better or
the worse, see things in the bible which he
claims conflicts with his own ideas of what
a God -should- be like and begin to find
fault with the bible as a record of
divine revelation to man.
several examples, like one who takes an elixur
into his mouth, doesn't like the taste and then
spits it out, and says that the medicine has
no curative effect.
someone who does not believe that a God exists,
and has no personal experience of God will see
it in an entirely negative manner and will not
take the word into themself at all but only
inspect it from the outside.
sort of like looking at a bottle of
arthritus medication and wondering
why it has no positive effect.
and then there are those who
use and compare the literature
with the divine natural product
of the Holy Spirit and see
true understanding.
one point being, you cannot suggest that
God has no 'proof' or has not been 'proven'
to exist just because God doesn't seem to work
for all people, any more than the fact that
"Paxatol" may make some people sick should
prevent it from being administered
it to anyone at all.
some of us have proof in a very concrete
manner that God not only exists but
works among human beings.
take the body and blood of Christ into you.
this is real food and real drink and very effective.
if you don't know how, consult the literature.
bob young wrote:
Want to spend some time explaining to me
whether or not these gods are real?
what we do see by this long listing is that
the idea of some attribute above and outside
of nature is rather ubiquitous among human beings,
and that there is no human culture that does
not point to some high being above nature.
we as christians merely offer up our
experiences with the God who has
brought all in to being.
not according to our fancy lernin'
but according to the gift of the
indwelling nature of God being
presented to us from God.
that 'elemental spirits' may, indeed,
exist and possess an ability to effect
the natural elements, we do not
argue against.
we simply suggest to you that the
Creator God can and does communicate
with human beings and effects morphologies.
and, as i will be apt to demonstrate,
the necessity for a Personal Creator God,
with conscious intent, to generate this
universe from the non-material is
what the data says.
.
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| User: "Timothy Sutter" |
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| Title: Re: the power of our Faith |
19 Jan 2005 07:50:35 AM |
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disagreement among people who speak
-about- God is summed up best by
the brocolli example.
in case there are some referrences
in the broccoli bit that seem to have
no antecedent, this was a bit that i'd
posted directly above them on several occasions,
--
using the drug industry as an example,
here's a sample of the 'scientific'
statements about the efficacy of
certain pharmaceutical products;
"take this drug, it may make you sick
and it may not work, but it works
for many people, ask your doctor"
the drug industry employs 'scientific'
methodologies, and yet they can make
no profoundly exact statement as to
the efficacy of all of their products.
these are considered truthful statements,
but not statements that will lead anyone
to believe that all drugs are always
100% effective, and therefore not
'proof' that such drugs are cures.
one can go into the literature, find a
description of a method to synthesize
"Paxatol"[fictitious example] a cancer
medication that is also a natural product
found in the tree bark of the yum-yum tree.
this synthesis is multistep
and provides very low yield.
now, if all you do is read the literature
you have description of someone else's
method to synthesize this chemical.
if you attempt the synthesis yourself,
you will still have to analyze the
compound after you get a product
-if- you get a product.
as i said, the compound
is also a natural product.
and so, the compound itself
grows in plants and can be
isolated and analyzed.
this analysis can provide a
standard for the identity
of the compound.
and this standard identification
can be placed in the literature.
and now, when you analyze your product,
you can compare it to the standards
found in the literature.
and then, when you consider you
have your product, you may begin
administering it to patients.
when it works on people, to do the
desired effect, your understanding
that that compound is therapeutic grows.
this same sort of argument
applies to our walk with Jesus.
we get the Word from the Body of Christ.
this Word -is- the product of the Divine Nature,
we then go about the task of synthesizing our
own natural product based on the Word as substrate
and 'the word' as conceptual literature.
we compare our experience of God to the
words of the paradigm structure found in
the literature, we apply literature
methodologies to our personal lives,
we grow in understanding and see
that it WORKS.
we attenuate our vision by continued
repetetive usage. our evidence
builds and grows.
we brush aside the talk of those
who refuse to follow proper and
time tested procedures in favor
of their own view that no such
working knowledge can be attained.
all the while, leaving the message
open for anyone to take and
put to good use.
---
.
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| User: "Timothy Sutter" |
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| Title: Re: the power of our Faith |
19 Jan 2005 07:54:20 AM |
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aside from the implication that
God has not appeared to people in
a spectacular array of light and such,
when some say that God has not been
'proven' to exist, they mean they have
no referrence to mechanical measuring
devices which detect God;
what physical measurement?
what machine apparatus have you
designed that will measure
such a phenomenon?
what, exactly, is the nature of
the phenomenon for which you
seek physical measurement?
in lieu of appropriate answers to these,
your problem is simply one of disbelief
in a thing that you have not
directly experienced.
will you suggest that the flavor chemist
and the perfume chemist are not involved
in scientific discovery?
of course not, as these are two very
important branches of chemistry,
a "hard science."
so anyway, generally, in flavor chemistry,
they run chemical samples from known natural
products thru a machine apparatus like a mass
spectrometer or an infra red or nuclear magnetic
resonance spectrometer to determine the chemical
make-up of a given flavor, say bananas.
they determoine that one of the main
components of the flavor of bananas
is ethyl acetate;
CH3-C[O]O-CH2CH3
now, they synthesize this chemical
from available sources and then,
*they ask people to taste the stuff
to see if it tastes like bananas*
why?
because there's no machine apparatus
that can tell you if that stuff
tastes like anything.
just don't talk about "science"
and "measurement" when you mean,
mechanical detection.
when you develop the mechanical device
that can detect God, and it doesn't
detect God, then you can speak.
you'll simply have to rely, in part,
on the descriptions of human beings
for your "measurements" in much the
same way as the flavor chemist must
rely on human beings to tell [him]
if [his] compounds taste "good" or not.
but, a given experiment designed to allow
you to ascertain the experience of God
is possible and plausible.
and if you dont gain an audiance with the
Holy Spirit the first time, you'll have to
do the experiment over and over till
you get it right.
and central to this, is greeting
the words of Faith with faith.
no faith, no experience.
no experience, no knowledge.
no knowledge, keep silent.
if God's Holy Spirit is detectable
in and by human beings, then this
represents a physical measurement.
to say otherwise is blind assumption that
the human entity is incapable of divulging
proper 'scientific' data.
which is nonsense, as most real discovery
is taken and delineated and accepted by
none other than the human entity.
go drop a stone from the tower of Pisa,
who is taking a measurement? get a sophisticated
listening device to do the same thing,
now who is taking the data? still the
human being, as the machine apparatus
is merely a device to extend
our capabilities.
now, if you cannot design an appropriate device
to extend your mechanical capabilitues in the
area of God detection, then you are simply at
a primitive stage in your machine designing
abilities and need further study before you
can ever make some blanket statement to the
effect that God is not physically detectable
because God is most certainly detectable
by the human entity.
what you have to realize is that God has
placed something -like- a "terminate and
stay resident" program in your being that
behaves -like- an "analog to digital converter."
there is some sort of 'spirit' in man that
remains in the background, that is 'resident'
but not running until activated by
the 'words of faith'
-then- this 'spirit' becomes active
and converts the 'analog' signal from
God, thru the Holy Spirit, into a 'digital'
signal that your cortical brain structure
can interpret as a meaningful presence.
you don't even know it is there
until it becomes activated.
now see, i cannot personally switch on
your 'spirit' and pour the Holy Spirit
into your life, but i can present
statements which can trigger your
TSR programs to activate the
A-to-D converter.
here's someone, with whom i find
agreement, describing a phenomenon
like this "TSR--A-to-D converter"
of which i speak.
----------------
1 Corinthians 13:1 and 14:3-4,13
Though I speak with the unknown
spiritual languages of men and
of angels....
He who speaks in unknown spiritual languages
does not speak to men but to God, in the spirit
he speaks mysteries, for no one understands him;
He who speaks in an unknown spiritual language
teaches himself, if I pray in an unknown
spiritual language, my spirit prays, but
my understanding is unfruitful.
Therefore let him who speaks in an unknown
spiritual language pray that he may interpret.
What is the conclusion then? I will pray with
the spirit, and I will also pray with
the understanding.
----------------
notice that Paul describes a distinction
between the "spirit" and the "understanding"
also notice that you can edify
your "self" in a manner which
your "understanding" is unaware.
hold on a minute, now look at this.
same passage different portion;
----------------
1 Corinthians 14:1-3,12,39
since you are zealous for spiritual gifts,
let it be for the teaching of the faithful
that you seek to excel. Let all things be
done for such edification;
Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but
especially that you may speak an understanding
of God which comes from God. He who utters such
divine revelations speaks comfort, encourages
and edifies the faithful.
desire earnestly to understand and speak
divine revelations, and do not forbid to
speak with unknown spiritual languages.
----------------
now he's suggesting that comprehending
spiritual knowledge of God with your
corporeal "understanding" is of
primary importance.
that is, understanding God
with your "understanding"
but look, he's also suggesting that
you may find yourself speaking with
God in a language that is unknown
to your conscious understanding
but -not- unknown to your background
"TSR" program which behaves as
an A-to-D converter.
a trivial example can be found in a
very general description of the manner
in which your computer operates.
your computer operates programs that are
written in a so-called "high level language"
and these high level languages translates
that into a machine code assembly language
and finally into machine code ones and zeroes.
the machine only "understands"
"yes" and "no" which is fed to it
in the form of a "one" and a "zero"
but the machine is able to interpret
the "high level language" of the
computer programmer by use
of compiler programs.
within details.
in a similar manner, there is an intimate
connection between your "spirit" and your
corporeal "understanding," even if the
'two' are non-identical, and both see
growth and aligniment with God's
own Personal Presence.
and now, what would be nice, would be
for that "spirit" part of -you- to relay
the message to what amounts to your
'corporeal' understanding, and reform
-that- thing of -you- in the
image of Christ.
as this should relieve any conflict
which your corporeal "understanding"
may place on your "spirit" inhibitting
your spiritual growth.
a spiritual growth that will further
cleanse the conscience of "dead works"
bringing your -actions- into a greater
conformity with your understandable
"intentions".
understandable intentions which more
and more closely align with a Spirit
who knows no -want-
so, it's like your understandable intentions
are the nexus point between this "spirit"
and your corporeal "understanding".
like, your 'spirit' shows
itself in your -intentions-
and your corporeal understanding
shows itself in your actions.
and you'd like to align a purity of
intentions to blameless actions.
each feeding off the other feeding
from the root of the vine which is God.
----------------
1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author
of confusion but of peace
----------------
and that's what Jesus -was-
by a peculiarity of birth, Jesus' "spirit"
-was- The Holy Spirit and Jesus' corporeal
understanding became perfectly
aligned with -that-.
# as this should relieve any conflict
# which your corporeal "understanding"
# may place on your "spirit" inhibitting
# your spiritual growth.
right, a "conflict" very much -like- a
"yes = no" statement in a computer program.
if you tell a machine "yes = no" it won't operate.
in similar manner, your personal conflict
inhibits growth and, in effect, shuts down
your 'spirit' processors.
personal conflict which has "yes = no"
statements as an underpinning.
like i said before,
this sort of situation arises when
you operate under the idea that "good"
is getting what you want and "bad"
is not getting what you want.
this enables you to seek a "good" for
your self at the expense of carrying
out an action which you would consider
"bad" if it was done -to- you.
"good = bad"
"yes = no"
system failure
----------------
1 Corinthians 14:39
desire earnestly to understand and speak
divine revelations, and do not forbid to
speak with unknown spiritual languages.
----------------
ok, so, there still is a definite
benefit to having your 'spirit' edified
in an unvarnished manner where you may
have blood in your eyes and so, you
wouldn't want to immediately sully
an understanding of a thing before
that thing had a chance to work within
your 'spirit' and seep into your
knowledgeable understanding more
slowly removing the blood from your
eyes so that you can see more clearly.
like that 'spirit' "TSR" program had
been dormant in you and when it was
awakened by the words of Faith it needed
refreshement and enlivening with waters
from the fountain of God's own Presence.
and so, that 'spirit' is living and growing too.
so, don't -discourage- the utterrance
in other unknown spiritual languages
as this can be viewed as a direct
sampling from God to you without your
own personal viewpoint getting in
the way of a clear understanding.
which also suggests that you should be
on the lookout for virulent doctrines
taking up residence and corrupting
your understanding of God.
corruptions which display themselves
in a variety of "yes = no" statements.
make no room for this sort of thing.
it is truly for your own good.
thank you for listening.
.
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| User: "Timothy Sutter" |
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| Title: Re: the power of our Faith |
19 Jan 2005 09:43:50 AM |
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while the law may not be everyone's
religion, Law -is- some people's religion.
"congress shall make no law establishing law"
and in certain respects, a "church"
is nothing but a congregation of people.
"separation of people and state"
basically, you don't really even have to consult
the idea of "framer's intent" when you consider
the idea of "separation of Church and State"
it doesn't matter that "separation" isn't
written in the constitution anywhere.
what does matter is the difference between
a "Church" as an institutional body and
a group of people who happen to be religious.
and in America we say that we are
a "nation of laws and not of men"
that is, the "State" -is- the code of Law
which -binds- the people together, and is,
therefore, demonstrably a 'religious' enterprise.
where "religion" means "to tie"
no one wants a -particular- "Church" or
'institutional religious body' to interfere
directly in matters of State or the direct
implacement of a particular interpretation
or group preferrence over all other
interpretations encoded in to Law.
no one wants a "State" to interefere directly
in matters of "Church" where Law would be encoded
which would stand in direct contrast to a given
ethical interpretation of a set of people
who seek self governance.
but, there is simply no convenient way to construe
these sentiments to imply that a people, who happen
to be religious, are to be forbidden from participating
in their own governance or that a State need seek to
maintain the 'secular' nature of -itself- by ridding
-itself- of all -appearance- of 'religious' doctrine.
that is to say, no one may insist that a religious
people must be governed by an irreligious people.
this is false on the face of it.
but the simple fact that 'religion' and 'law'
are identical to some people precludes any notion
that a 'nation of Laws' can -not- be instituted
nor kept safe by a religious people.
in fact a religious people are likely to be
the more staunch protectors of properly
codified ethical behaviors.
with the allowance that variant
points of view shall be considered.
not and never;
"religion has no place in government"
religion does have a place in government,
and, for some, law -is- religion.
walking a tightrope is not to be confused
with cutting the ties that bind us
together as a people.
i'll stop here.
now, just look at these and see oif you
can see how fair business practices are
some people's "religion"
and so, business practices in general
are also points of religious activity.
---
Leviticus 19:36
You shall have honest scales, honest weights,
an honest ephah, and an honest hin: I am YHWH
your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt.
Leviticus 25:36
Take no usury or interest from him;
but fear your God, that your brother
may live with you.
Leviticus 25:37
You shall not lend him your money for
usury, nor lend him your food at a profit.
Deuteronomy 15:1
"At the end of every seven years
you shall grant a release of debts.
Proverbs 11:1
Dishonest scales are an abomination to YHWH,
But a just weight is His delight.
Proverbs 16:11
Honest weights and scales are YHWH's;
All the weights in the bag are His work.
Proverbs 20:23
Diverse weights are an abomination to YHWH,
And dishonest scales are not good.
Proverbs 22:26
Do not be one of those who shakes hands
in a pledge, One of those who is surety
for debts;
Isaiah 24:2
And it shall be: As with the people,
so with the priest; As with the servant,
so with his master; As with the maid,
so with her mistress; As with the buyer,
so with the seller; As with the lender,
so with the borrower; As with the creditor,
so with the debtor.
---
and so this would be funny in that you can see
how Congress shall make no laws establishing
business nor inhibitting the free exercise thereof.
-that- you can see very clearly.
Congress isn't supposed to be in the biusiness
of making business because Congress could be
subsumed and stack the deck in someone's favor.
and we seek after "Justice"
Congress is supposed to see to it that business
is freely carried out but not to establish a
business of it's own.
and for some people, the activity of engaging
in contracts and deals and commerce -is- a
'religious' activity.
the problem arises when "Justice"
is perverted in this endeavor.
the problem arises when people worship
the -benefits- of business practices
over and above the God who makes
all things possible.
the problme arises when one uses governement
to inhibit the free trade of someone else
in favor of their own free trade.
that is our old friend "Cynical Pragmatism"
rearing its ugly head again,,,and again.
and these are 'religious' practices.
and you never -have- to mention "God"
even if "God" appears on all the money.
and now you begin to see the tricky tightrope
of the establishment clause.
it is -not- just about saying "God" in public.
it is -not- just about the free exercise of
going to a Church building on the weekends.
"religion" does -not- consist entirely of
"worship" in a Church building or thereabouts.
"religion" encompasses nearly all
of one's day to day practices.
are -you- a person of your word?
that is, when -you- enter into contract
with soneone, can they trust you to
stand behind your word?
-this- is a "religious" quality.
the so-called 'major religions'
are quite concerned with the
bond of your word.
and so, your 'religion' shows itself
in your business practices and in
your legal practices and in your
interpersonal relationships.
now tell me how much you want "Congress"
involved these aspects of your life.
but they are.
so, don't go on about separation of church and state
as if it pertains -only- to 'worship' of "God"
what exactly is "worship" anyway?
-acting- in manners befitting your call?
etc.
==========
and so, basically, if you want to say that
not all 'laws' found in the 'bible' are of
a 'religious' nature, then anyone who wants
to see that such 'laws' are instituted publicly
are not crashing down any sort of
establishment clause.
if you wish to say that all 'laws' found
in the bible are of a 'religious' nature,
then the practice of law and business
are religious practices, regardless
of perspective.
either way, you really ought
to choose your enemies
more carefully.
or is that friends?
===========
so, i guess what some of this comes down to
is that corruption and dissatisfaction breeds
corruption and dissatisfaction.
if your dealings are corrupted, you invite
legalities into your life which seek out
some sort of correction to justice
and when your legal structures get corrupted
they still get all in your business and you
want them off your back, but you still want
to behave in a corrupt manner yourself, and,
are unwilling to seek out corrections so,
you get stuck with a legal gorilla on your
back even if that legal gorilla is more
corrupt than you are, or less.
meaning, the legal structures that get on your
back are just coming in response to your already
corrupted dealings, so, you can't really blame
that thing if it becomes as corrupted as you are.
but that's its nature.
no matter what, corrupt dealings
-invite- legal structures into
your life.
if you -really- want the
government off your back,
be fair your self.
otherwise, it has every right
to camp out on your doorstep.
and then, you can accuse each other
of encouraging bad dealings -just- so
the 'authorities' can get and remain
all up in your business.
as opposed to encouraging good and fair
dealings, so you can get and remain free.
cuz you -like- the gorilla on your back.
it gives you something to complain about.
and then our eyes glaze over.
and now, for the uplifting finish?
yeah....right.
it's always -been- in your power to be free.
like you needed -me- to tell you that.
but you have to shed your corruption
and walk in a manner befitting free people.
guess this means you have to help each other out.
or not, and then you can go right along
complaining about that beam in your eye
and how it obstructs your view of the hanging.
even if it's your own,
beam -and- hanging.
hurray for Jesus.
make me free in deed indeed.
.
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