| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bill M" |
| Date: |
17 Apr 2007 07:05:17 PM |
| Object: |
THE REAL WORLD PROBLEM |
We keep hearing campaigns to end global warming, reduce air, water and soil
pollution; rapidly declining ocean stocks of fish; the poverty and the
deaths of millions of children due to malnutrition and starvation. The cost
of power, oil, coal, copper and other resources is rapidly escalating
Most of this drive is attacking the results and ignoring the cause. It's the
old problem of attacking the messenger instead dealing with the message.
The real cause of these problems is world wide over population and
increasing consumption of resources.
The basic solution is lowering the world wide birth rate. Modern medicine
makes this totally attainable provided we don't permit the religious
fanatics to prevent the use of modern birth control and reduction.
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| User: "Elf M. Sternberg" |
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| Title: Re: THE REAL WORLD PROBLEM |
17 Apr 2007 10:03:47 PM |
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"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> writes:
The basic solution is lowering the world wide birth rate. Modern
medicine makes this totally attainable provided we don't permit the
religious fanatics to prevent the use of modern birth control and
reduction.
The problem is that if you lower the birth rate, you also
lower the productivity of the remaining population. There's this
thing called economies of scale. If we cut our population to 10% of
its current rate, we would not have enough people to sustain the
standard of living of even the lower middle class.
There's an alternative solution: find ways of generating
energy that aren't as nasty or self-defeating as carbon-based power.
Elf
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: THE REAL WORLD PROBLEM |
18 Apr 2007 02:04:43 PM |
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"Elf M. Sternberg" <elf@drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:87odlm8ju4.fsf@drizzle.com...
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> writes:
The basic solution is lowering the world wide birth rate. Modern
medicine makes this totally attainable provided we don't permit the
religious fanatics to prevent the use of modern birth control and
reduction.
The problem is that if you lower the birth rate, you also
lower the productivity of the remaining population. There's this
thing called economies of scale. If we cut our population to 10% of
its current rate, we would not have enough people to sustain the
standard of living of even the lower middle class.
Totally illogical. Lowering the birth rate would not reduce individual
productivity.
It would reduce total 'production' which would conserve natural resources
and reduce world wide pollution.
Production persperson would remain the same.
There's an alternative solution: find ways of generating
energy that aren't as nasty or self-defeating as carbon-based power.
This would help but would not result in a significant reduction of consuming
natural resources.
Elf
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| User: "Jerry Kraus" |
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| Title: Re: THE REAL WORLD PROBLEM |
18 Apr 2007 09:27:25 AM |
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On Apr 17, 10:03 pm, Elf M. Sternberg <e...@drizzle.com> wrote:
"Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> writes:
The basic solution is lowering the world wide birth rate. Modern
medicine makes this totally attainable provided we don't permit the
religious fanatics to prevent the use of modern birth control and
reduction.
The problem is that if you lower the birth rate, you also
lower the productivity of the remaining population. There's this
thing called economies of scale. If we cut our population to 10% of
its current rate, we would not have enough people to sustain the
standard of living of even the lower middle class.
There's an alternative solution: find ways of generating
energy that aren't as nasty or self-defeating as carbon-based power.
Elf
Controlled nuclear fusion, anyone? It can't be that all hard to do.
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| User: "Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister" |
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| Title: Re: THE REAL WORLD PROBLEM |
18 Apr 2007 11:16:49 AM |
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On Apr 18, 3:27 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Apr 17, 10:03 pm, Elf M. Sternberg <e...@drizzle.com> wrote:
"Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> writes:
The basic solution is lowering the world wide birth rate. Modern
medicine makes this totally attainable provided we don't permit the
religious fanatics to prevent the use of modern birth control and
reduction.
The problem is that if you lower the birth rate, you also
lower the productivity of the remaining population. There's this
thing called economies of scale. If we cut our population to 10% of
its current rate, we would not have enough people to sustain the
standard of living of even the lower middle class.
There's an alternative solution: find ways of generating
energy that aren't as nasty or self-defeating as carbon-based power.
Elf
Controlled nuclear fusion, anyone? It can't be that all hard to do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEMO
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: THE REAL WORLD PROBLEM |
23 Apr 2007 12:01:28 PM |
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On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:03:47 -0700, in alt.atheism , Elf M. Sternberg
<elf@drizzle.com> in <87odlm8ju4.fsf@drizzle.com> wrote:
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> writes:
The basic solution is lowering the world wide birth rate. Modern
medicine makes this totally attainable provided we don't permit the
religious fanatics to prevent the use of modern birth control and
reduction.
The problem is that if you lower the birth rate, you also
lower the productivity of the remaining population. There's this
thing called economies of scale.
Sorry, but economies of scale are not monotropic increasing. There are
plenty of places where larger is less efficient.
If we cut our population to 10% of
its current rate, we would not have enough people to sustain the
standard of living of even the lower middle class.
Since a very larger portion of our standard of living comes from
dipping into "savings" (forests, aquifers, etc.) we may have to drop
to some sustainable level at some point.
There's an alternative solution: find ways of generating
energy that aren't as nasty or self-defeating as carbon-based power.
Fusion is a nice dream. But power had better get to about free (and
mass conversion become a possibility) to overcome things like
deforestization and used up aquifer.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: THE REAL WORLD PROBLEM |
17 Apr 2007 09:32:52 PM |
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In article <BbdVh.832$np4.654@bignews4.bellsouth.net>,
wmech@bellsouth.net says...
We keep hearing campaigns to end global warming, reduce air, water and soil
pollution; rapidly declining ocean stocks of fish; the poverty and the
deaths of millions of children due to malnutrition and starvation. The cost
of power, oil, coal, copper and other resources is rapidly escalating
Most of this drive is attacking the results and ignoring the cause. It's the
old problem of attacking the messenger instead dealing with the message.
The real cause of these problems is world wide over population and
increasing consumption of resources.
The basic solution is lowering the world wide birth rate. Modern medicine
makes this totally attainable provided we don't permit the religious
fanatics to prevent the use of modern birth control and reduction.
We need to shrink the economy. The days of economic growth are over.
But that's against human nature?
So too was ceasing territorial expansion but that did stop. So too was
slavery. But we stopped that.
So too was punitive vengeance such as the death penalty but we have
stopped that except in a few third world countries like the USA.
So too was nuclear nonproliferation. But that has stopped except in a
few countries and nuclear weapons research is only confined to a few
rouge states like the USA.
So too was the International Criminal Court but most countries have
signed except for a few recalcitrant countries like the USA.
So too was Kyoto except for some ostrich countries like Australia and
the USA.
So too the idea of an illegal war but most countries respect Article 51
of the UN Charter except for a few primitive countries like Britain,
Australia and the USA.
So too was universal health coverage but today it is only in the USA
that you are asked about your medical insurance before they save your
life.
It is amazing what can be achieved that is supposedly "against" human
nature. In the case of economic growth any more will cost the earth.
Literally.
If we downsized we would not need to fight wars for resources. The
choice is one earth or none.
Population will decrease. that is not a choice. It will simply happen.
The end of the "green revolution" based on fossil fuels will see to it.
The choice is how this will happen. Voluntarily or tragically.
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
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| User: "Jerry Kraus" |
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| Title: Re: THE REAL WORLD PROBLEM |
17 Apr 2007 07:39:18 PM |
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On Apr 17, 7:05 pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
We keep hearing campaigns to end global warming, reduce air, water and soil
pollution; rapidly declining ocean stocks of fish; the poverty and the
deaths of millions of children due to malnutrition and starvation. The cost
of power, oil, coal, copper and other resources is rapidly escalating
Most of this drive is attacking the results and ignoring the cause. It's the
old problem of attacking the messenger instead dealing with the message.
The real cause of these problems is world wide over population and
increasing consumption of resources.
The basic solution is lowering the world wide birth rate. Modern medicine
makes this totally attainable provided we don't permit the religious
fanatics to prevent the use of modern birth control and reduction.
Definitely one approach. The other is developing controlled nuclear
fusion, which would make colonization of other planets a practical
possiblity.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: THE REAL WORLD PROBLEM |
18 Apr 2007 08:25:04 PM |
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Jerry Kraus wrote:
On Apr 17, 7:05 pm, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
We keep hearing campaigns to end global warming, reduce air, water and soil
pollution; rapidly declining ocean stocks of fish; the poverty and the
deaths of millions of children due to malnutrition and starvation. The cost
of power, oil, coal, copper and other resources is rapidly escalating
Most of this drive is attacking the results and ignoring the cause. It's the
old problem of attacking the messenger instead dealing with the message.
The real cause of these problems is world wide over population and
increasing consumption of resources.
The basic solution is lowering the world wide birth rate. Modern medicine
makes this totally attainable provided we don't permit the religious
fanatics to prevent the use of modern birth control and reduction.
Definitely one approach. The other is developing controlled nuclear
fusion, which would make colonization of other planets a practical
possiblity.
Humans will solve the problem themselves just as soon as irresponsible nations
get their hands on nuclear weapons.
These nations will have no concerns about wiping out half the population as Allah
says ity is OK to destroy infidels.
So in about fifteen years time the overpoulation issue will be solved
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: THE REAL WORLD PROBLEM |
17 Apr 2007 07:56:31 PM |
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On Apr 18, 10:05 am, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
We keep hearing campaigns to end global warming, reduce air, water and soil
pollution; rapidly declining ocean stocks of fish; the poverty and the
deaths of millions of children due to malnutrition and starvation. The cost
of power, oil, coal, copper and other resources is rapidly escalating
Most of this drive is attacking the results and ignoring the cause. It's the
old problem of attacking the messenger instead dealing with the message.
The real cause of these problems is world wide over population and
increasing consumption of resources.
The basic solution is lowering the world wide birth rate. Modern medicine
makes this totally attainable provided we don't permit the religious
fanatics to prevent the use of modern birth control and reduction.
Bill, I agree.
The Roman Catholic church is a very big problem in this regard - they
are so fond of "the poor and suffering" that they are keen for there
to be many more!
They are insane.
Mark.
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