On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:00:35 GMT, while bungee jumping, BoD
<BoD@the-house-of-god.com> shouted thusly:

This Age ! This Generation !

G1074 - genea (ghen-eh-ah') - From (a presumed derivative of)
G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons):
- age, generation, nation, time.

Yes, the period or the persons, both of which note
a generation, in the same way that it is common to
use the word.

Now why you think that Jesus went around trying to confuse
people (especially since we both know that you wouldn't
even try to argue the definition in any other verse), I have
no idea. (:

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:00:35 GMT, while bungee jumping, BoD
<BoD@the-house-of-god.com> shouted thusly:
=20
=20

This Age ! This Generation !

G1074 - genea (ghen-eh-ah') - From (a presumed derivative of)
G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons):
- age, generation, nation, time.

=20
Yes, the period or the persons, both of which note
a generation, in the same way that it is common to
use the word.
=20
As Thayer's puts it... "the whole of a people living
at a given time".
Now why you think that Jesus went around trying to confuse
people (especially since we both know that you wouldn't
even try to argue the definition in any other verse), I have
no idea. (:
=20

=20

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age

=20
Are you seriously going to try to get us to believe that
an English dictionary from the 21st century, is telling
us the definition of a Greek word, from an ancient,
dead language, called "Koine Greek" and that it really
means, "an astrological age" (seek link name)?

When you intentionally try to change the primary definition
of the word from a Koine Greek dictionary (above), you told
us plainly that you knew that you were lying and that your
concern is not the word of God, but your own personal,
man made doctrine. (:

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:00:35 GMT, while bungee jumping, BoD
<BoD@the-house-of-god.com> shouted thusly:
=20
=20

This Age ! This Generation !

G1074 - genea (ghen-eh-ah') - From (a presumed derivative of)
G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons):
- age, generation, nation, time.

=20
Yes, the period or the persons, both of which note
a generation, in the same way that it is common to
use the word.
=20
As Thayer's puts it... "the whole of a people living
at a given time".
Now why you think that Jesus went around trying to confuse
people (especially since we both know that you wouldn't
even try to argue the definition in any other verse), I have
no idea. (:
=20

=20

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age

=20
Are you seriously going to try to get us to believe that
an English dictionary from the 21st century, is telling
us the definition of a Greek word, from an ancient,
dead language, called "Koine Greek" and that it really
means, "an astrological age" (seek link name)?

When you intentionally try to change the primary definition
of the word from a Koine Greek dictionary (above), you told
us plainly that you knew that you were lying and that your
concern is not the word of God, but your own personal,
man made doctrine. (:

For example the Book of Revelation, is primarily a pastoral epistle,
aimed at building the Faith of the Believers in the Seven churches, as
addressed in the Book! The actual prophetic utterances, were to be
applied to their lives at that time to exhort them to endure, and to
comfort them when the enduring became difficult. Through all of these
events, they were to see Jesus unveiled, as the purpose of the
prophesy, not just the details of the fulfillment as an end in
themselves. Most futurist get so involved in studying the details of
the fulfillment, and understanding how to apply this to their current
time, that they overlook one small detail; the prophecy had been
previously fulfilled and the Faith of those earlier Christians had been
built up by that fulfillment.

Doug Webber wrote:

I have been following this thread with some interest. Indeed, Jesus
did say that some in his day would live to see his second coming. But
as time moves in cycles, so does prophecy, so I see no problem in the
preterist interpretation. I think arguments start when people focus on
one interpretation of scripture, not realizing there are multiple
layers of interpretation as well as multiple fulfullments of prophecy.

As for the statement of Jesus that no sign will be given to this
generation except the sign of Jonah - Jonah was in the whale for three
days as Jesus was in a tomb for three days. But Jonah also prophesied
that in 40 days Ninevah would be destroyed - and likewise 40 years
after the crucifixion, Jerusalem was destroyed. As the body of Jesus
was the temple, which the Jews destroyed, so their temple was destroyed
in 70 A.D. Some experts state that the dismantling of the Jewish
temple would have taken extra time, and probably was completed in 71
A.D. - 40 years after the crucifixion (in Biblical prophecy a day can
equal a year).

Let's assume that a second coming did take place in 70 A.D. - a
spiritual one of sorts, not a physical one everyone expects. Josephus
reports that at the time of the siege of Jerusalem, interesting signs
were taking place in the sky. This would be the time that Jesus began
his reign in his heavenly kingdom - represented by the Christian Church
on earth, as the age of Judaism came to an end with the destruction of
the physical temple. Now lets jump to Revelation 20, where Satan gets
bound for a thousand years, after which Gog and Magog get unleashed.
Gog and Magog, and the associated nations, are also described in
Ezekiel 38-39, which many interpreters have identified with China,
Mongolia, and the Turks. So I just did some research on this: 1000
years after 71 A.D. takes us to 1071 A.D. What happened then? The
Battle of Manzikert, where the Seljuk Turks defeated the Byzantine
Empire. So critical was this battle that many people trace of the fall
of the Byzantine Empire to this battle. From there, the Seljuk Turks
easily conquer Jerusalem in 1076 A.D., leading to the period of
Crusades, and eventually the great Mongolian Empire of Ghengis Khan.

Obviously, not everything fits, both Ezekiel and Revelation state that
Gog and Magog get destroyed by fire from heaven. Obviously, still
future. Iraq has plenty of oil and China wont simply let America sit
on all that wealth. But these past events I think presage future ones.

One other thing of interest: Ezekiel's prophecy of Gog and Magog is
preceded by a prophecy that the tribes of Israel and Judah will be
reunited (Ezek. 37). For those of you who don't know, the 10 northern
tribes of Israel split from the 2 southern tribes of Judah after the
death of King Solomon, ca. 930 B.C. And guess what - from 930 B.C. to
71 A.D. is yet another 1000 year period. Since he reigned 40 years,
1000 years from the beginning of his reign leads us to the crucifixion
again.

I just thought of all this now, so feel free to poke holes in it.
There are some implied future dates from the pattern given above.


Flowerchild8245 wrote:

So you say Jesus was saying: "All these things shall come upon this
people generated by Israel"? Perhaps if you explore the many times
Jesus said "this generation", you will hear the Word of God reveal the
gospel truth, that when Jesus said "this generation", He was speaking
of His generation, an "evil", "faithless and twisted", "evil and
adulterous", "adulterous and sinful", and "faithless" generation.


(Luke 17:25) But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of
this generation.


Jesus suffered many things and was rejected by His generation! Jesus
said "this generation" many times in many different ways, not just
once. Here are some examples...Please Hear His words:


(Mat 11:16-19) But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like
unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have
mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. For John came neither
eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came
eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a
winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified
of her children.


Jesus said "what shall I liken this generation", saying John came and
He came, yet both were rejected. John came in the first century, Jesus
came in the first century, Jesus was clearly speaking of His
generation, the generation of the first century.


(Mat 12:41) The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this
generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the
preaching of Jonah; and, behold, a greater than Jonah is here.


Jesus said "this generation" would be judged, because He was there
amongst them and they rejected Him. Jesus was clearly speaking of His
generation, the same who repented not, the generation of the first
century.


(Mat 12:42) The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with
this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost
parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a
greater than Solomon is here.


Jesus said "this generation" would be judged, because He was there
amongst them and they rejected Him. Jesus was clearly speaking of His
generation, the same who repented not, the generation of the first
century.


(Mar 8:12) And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this
generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no
sign be given unto this generation.


Jesus said that the only sign His generation would see was simular to
the sign of Jonah, that as Jonah was in the belly of a whale three
days, after three days He would rise from the dead. The sign was given
to them in the first century, "this generation" was in the first
century...


(Luk 11:30) For as Jonah was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also
the Son of man be to this generation.


Again:


(Luk 11:50-51) That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from
the foundation of the world, may be required of [this generation]; From
the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between
the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required
of [this generation].


Jesus was scathing the Pharisees and said the blood of all the prophets
"shall be required of this generation", the same generation that
rejected Him, as Jesus reveals here...


(Luk 17:25) But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of
this generation.


Jesus was rejected by His generation, the generation of the first
century. When Jesus said "This generation" in this scripture, and more
than 10 times, He was speaking of His generation. That is the gospel
truth. Jesus spoke of His generation almost 25 times saying just
"generation" as well. Jesus even spoke of His generation in many
PARABLES too, often times, almost everytime, the parables were about
the Pharisees, and they knew it!



Plainly:

(Mat 23:36) TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, ALL THESE THINGS WILL COME UPON THIS
GENERATION.

(Mat 24:34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till
all these things be fulfilled.

(Mar 13:30) Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass,
till all these things be done.

(Luk 21:32) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away,
till all be fulfilled.

Doug, basically as I have read your post, you are saying there was then
a present fulfilment, and then an expected secondary or future
fulfillment! This on the surface appears to be an acceptable spiritual
compromise but in actuallity, it is frought with errors, pitfalls,
snairs, and a host of dangerous and false teachings!

First I would like to say in trying to understand what you were saying,
and what was implied by what you were saying, please understand that
you are not alone in this interpretation and view of prophecy and
history! True Christianity, has always had the dilemna of maintaining
a Spiritual understanding of real time and and actual historical
events! Hence the struggle for example to understand from a prophetic
view point 70 AD. and the events that unfolded in Jerusalem with the
invasion of the Roman army that led to the sacking of Jerusalem, and
the destruction of the temple!

We understand that these events were prophesied in many places in the
Scriptures, by the prophets, and last by Jesus during His earthly
ministry! We maintain that specific events happened then, and
therefore are locked into the historical records. The faith of those
believers at that time, were directly and unquestionably affected by
those events. To say as some do that those events were not the
fulfillment of these particular prophecies, is to rob those early
believers of the significance of those events to their faith, as
recorded in history, and as understood by them as expressed in their
Faith.

So those of us who fight to maintain the significance of those events
to those Saints in the first century, do so realizing and believing
that those Saints were significant then, and in no way should be
diminished by us now, or for that matter any other Christians since
then! If we would allow their significance to be diminished back
then, then we would be setting the stage for any and all ensuing
generation of believers to be diminished as well!

Fact of the Matter, each ensuing generation, is built onto the Church,
the Body of Christ, and we would do ourselves a major disservice to
start removing previous building stones from the Church! All this
reminds me of the parlor game where there are a stack of small blocks,
and the point of the game is to start removing blocks until the stack
collapses. Even so many seem to be intent on removing certain blocks
from the Body of Christ, waiting for the collapse. The Scriptures say
that our Faith is built on the foundation of the Apostle and Prophets,
and upon the Faith of those who preceded us. We must therefore
maintain their testimony of the faithfulness of God, in fulfilling His
Word to them, and the resulting Faith that ensued, from the then
present tense fulfillment of the prophecy!

Secondly, to look for future fulfillments after there had been a
specific historical fulfillment, opens the door for all of the futurist
yearnings to peep and play, with various forms of fortune telling,
which has nothing to do with God and His purpose for prophecy in the
first place! Even so we see various schemes offered by many different
futurist, little of which builds up the Faith of the Body, and usually
just builds the reputation of those who maintain the particular scheme
with their particular and private interpretations, which ususally leads
to more and more speculation!

Now I understand that we humans, love to think that somehow whether
with tea leaves or crystal balls, or even some modern day version of
the Urim and Thummin, we can see beyond the veil into the Future. That
would give us a tremendous advantage over our cohorts, that do not have
that same advantage. Most importantly from a spiritual standpoint, we
could live our lives knowing when we would die, and what the events
surrounding that event would be like! This has been a major motivator
of most futurist throughout the history of mankind. But we play this
game of Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun pointed at our head!
We will all die, and that is the end of any futurist hope of scheme
fulfilled, at least in our life time, that would leave us ahead of any
that had come before us. Hopefully the faith of the futurist was
founded in Jesus, and not in his scheme, though that is not always
apparent or evident. Sadly I believe there have been those futurist
who had more faith in their scheme, than in Christ!

We can not escape into the future, for we are locked into time, and
responsible for how we account for the time that we have. Even so the
apostle said, "What manner of life should we live, considering all of
the things that should shortly come to pass!" We should not be
dreamers thinking about what we think will happen, usually a very long
distance off in the future! Instead the Word of God teaches us to
embrace the present with all of it's futility and frustrations, and
seek a spiritual expression and fulfillment of Faith where we are at in
the present! Which gets me back to where I started!

Futurist scheme have little or nothing to do with spiritual reality of
living in the present. Most schemes push off forever, any actual
fulfillment, because they are not interested in fulfillment. As soon
as there is fulfillment of a futurist scheme, then the futurist is out
of business! But our business as a Christian, is to build up the Body,
and the Faith of Believers in the present day Ascended and Glorified
Christ, who we rejoice in now and forever! He was the object of their
Faith 2000 years ago, and He is the object of our Faith now!

Now it is not that there are not prophetic utterances that are either
foretelling (different than fortune telling), or forth-telling! The
forth-telling would be recognized as the typical preaching, though not
usually recognized as prophecy, with the intent of exhortation and
encouragement of the Body of Christ! The foretelling has to do with
announcing the occurance of specific events that will occur in the
future! However it should be pointed out that even foretelling is
aimed at building the Faith of a specific and present tense expression
of the Body of Christ, and is also used to exhort and encourage that
particular expression of the Body of Christ! Prophesy is not just to
tintillate our spiritual curiosity about the future, but to drive us to
our knees in dependence on Jesus!

For example the Book of Revelation, is primarily a pastoral epistle,
aimed at building the Faith of the Believers in the Seven churches, as
addressed in the Book! The actual prophetic utterances, were to be
applied to their lives at that time to exhort them to endure, and to
comfort them when the enduring became difficult. Through all of these
events, they were to see Jesus unveiled, as the purpose of the
prophesy, not just the details of the fulfillment as an end in
themselves. Most futurist get so involved in studying the details of
the fulfillment, and understanding how to apply this to their current
time, that they overlook one small detail; the prophecy had been
previously fulfilled and the Faith of those earlier Christians had been
built up by that fulfillment.

Usually, the futurist is more than willing to deprive those early
Saints of their understanding of the events, since they are not here to
defend their Faith, for the prolonged future fulfilment, which the
futurist hope to see fulfilled themselves, and usually to their
benefit! This continually results in new understandings of the
Scriptures a