The Revelation of Jesus Christ

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"Flowerchild8245"
Date:	19 Oct 2006 07:00:42 AM
Object:	The Revelation of Jesus Christ

The great book of Revelation is a book of symbols, and it is not beside
what Jesus said and did, but goes hand in hand with what the Son of God
said and did, before and after His ascension, a masterpiece of poetic
symbolism that truly can be thought of as the "Testimony of Jesus
Christ", because it is "the testimony of Jesus Christ"! A book of
symbols that describe His coming into power and bringing the kingdom of
God unto all mankind.
Consider what is written of the Book and when. It is the time of
fulfillment for Daniel's book. Daniel's book was sealed for the "end
times", was not Revelation was not sealed because "the time was at hand
for all to be fulfilled". So, what is Revelation it all about? This
verse is a great intro, right there on page one the whole time! :
(ALL CAPS for emphasis, not shouting)
*(KJV) Rev 1:1-3 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto
him, to show unto his servants things which must SHORTLY COME TO PASS
[G5034] ; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant
John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of
Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that
readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those
things which are written therein: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND [G1451].
It is "The testimony of Jesus Christ", The unveiling and revealing of
ALL things pertaining to Christ.
Is the book pertaining to the past, or the future? As I see it, This
verse says it all:
*(KJV)Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast [seen], and the things
which [are], and the things which shall be [hereafter]
What had John seen at this point? He had turned around and seen the
Lord. And John had also walked with the Lord, he seen it all! John was
also told to write of things that "ARE" as well, things that were, and
were happening right then as this was being spoken in the first
century. Also, John was told to write of things that were to be
thereafter, And these things were to happen "SHORTLY". It is the most
important and common theme in Revelation. Have you ever noticed these
things when reading Revelation?
It is written:
*(KJV)Rev 1:1-3 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto
him, to show unto his servants things which must SHORTLY COME TO PASS
[G5034] ; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant
John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus
Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and
they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which
are written therein: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND [G1451].
*(KJV)Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and
true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto
his servants the things which must SHORTLY BE DONE [G5034] .
*(KJV)Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the
prophecy of this book: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND [G1451]
The TIME is "at hand" does mean "NEAR":
G1451 "At hand"- (Strong's Concordance):
=CE=B5=CC=93=CE=B3=CE=B3=CF=85=CC=81=CF=82
eggus
eng-goos'

From a primary verb =CE=B1=CC=93=CC=81=CE=B3=CF=87=CF=89 agcho=CC=84 (to sq=

ueeze or throttle; akin
to the base of G43); near (literally or figuratively, of place or
time): - from, at hand, near, nigh (at hand, unto), ready.
And "shortly" come to PASS does mean - "A BRIEF SPACE OF TIME ":
G5034 "shortly"- (Strong's Concordance):
=CF=84=CE=B1=CC=81=CF=87=CE=BF=CF=82
tachos
takh'-os

From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722

prefixed) in haste: - + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.
The Urgency
Daniel's book was sealed for a later fulfillment, but as for the great
book of Revelation, John was told not to seal it...Why? Because the
things were to SHORTLY COME TO PASS, the TIME was "ready", "a place of
time", and the time was "soon" for all that was written to be
filfilled. There was an urgency about it, the thunderous sound of
"imminence" throughout.
URGENT!
Rev.1:1--The apostle John was shown that those things being revealed to
him in The Apocalypse were ALL:
"things which WOULD SHORTLY TAKE PLACE.
Here, John admonishes those 1st century disciples to:
"heed the things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR (Vs.3).
Rev.2:16--To the church at Pergamum, John was instructed to write:
"Repent therefore; or else I AM COMING QUICKLY..."
Rev.2:25--To the church at Thyatira, John was told to write:
"=2E..Hold fast UNTIL I COME."
Rev.3:10,11--To the church at Philadelphia, he was instructed to write:
"Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep
you from the hour of testing which is ABOUT TO COME upon the whole
world (land) to test those who dwell upon the earth (land). I AM COMING
QUICKLY; hold fast what you have, in order that no one take your
crown."
Rev.22:6,7--John wrote that:
"These words are faithful and true; and the Lord, the God of the
spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants,
the things WHICH MUST SHORTLY TAKE PLACE. And behold, I AM COMING
QUICKLY."
Rev.22:10--John was warned by the angel:
"Do NOT seal up the words of the prophecy of this book; FOR THE TIME IS
NEAR."
Rev.22:12--John was told to write:
"Behold, I AM COMING QUICKLY!"
Rev.22:20--And finally, John testified that Jesus said, "Yes, I AM
COMING QUICKLY."
Dear person, if you followed all the many warnings in Revelation, by
both the angel and also The Lord Jesus Himself, you certainly would
have taken notice of one inescapable fact and that is the thunderous
sound of "imminence" of our Lord's coming. With the many expressions
such as: "Things that must soon take place; the time is at hand;
behold, I am coming quickly," how could we see the many expressions
like that, and yet come away with the understanding that they are
things that are yet 20 centuries into their future?
Let's suppose for just a moment that Jesus definitely wanted the 1st
century readers of the Apocalypse to understand that His coming was
imminent; that He was even going to come in their generation. What sort
of things do you suppose He could say so as to best convey that
message? Well, I would think that an expression such as: "These are
things that must shortly come to pass" would be good. Surely, He could
say: "The time is at hand, or near!" Or, He could even say: "Behold I
am coming quickly!" Please don't think that I am trying to be a
"wise-guy" here! I'm only pleading that we allow His Word to simply
interpret itself! That's all!
(Luk 21:22) For these be the days of vengeance, that ALL things which
are written may be fulfilled.
(Mat 23:36) TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, ALL THESE THINGS WILL COME UPON THIS
GENERATION.
Jesus said to His servants and Apostles everything must "shortly come
to pass", "the time is at hand", and "the time is fulfilled", "some
standing here that shall not taste of death", "this generation shall
not pass until all be fulfilled", "before you can go over the cities of
Israel", all meaning "quickly" or "without delay", or "shortly to be
done", "within a brief space of time", or be done "soon".
Yet many will still insist that "shortly come to pass", "the time is at
hand", and "the time is fulfilled", "some standing here that shall not
taste of death", "this generation shall not pass until all be
fulfilled", "before you can go over the cities of Israel", all meaning
"quickly" or "without delay", or "shortly to be done", "within a brief
space of time", or be done "soon"... means thousands of years in the
future? What's up with that?
PART TWO- The dating of Revelation.
Did you know the only evidence for a 96 AD dating is hearsay? It is
hearsay because Irenaeus says NOTHING about when John began the first
scroll and finished the last scroll while in prison on the island of
Patmos! And it is hearsay because Irenaeus did not witness John, he
referred to Polycarp who supposedly knew the apostle John.
However there is Biblical evidence as to when it John sent out the
first scroll to the seven Churches that were in Asia in the first
century, a specific group of churches in Asia (Revelation 1:4). The
importance of this statement cannot be overlooked (even though it has
been by many scholars). There is only one small window of time in which
there wereonly seven churches in Asia. The early AD 60's.
The apostle Paul established nine churches in that area, but only seven
were addressed in Revelation. The reason for this is that the cities of
Colosse, Hierapolis, and Laodicea, were all destroyed by an earthquake
around AD 61. Laodicea was rebuilt soon afterwards, but the other two
cities were not. This left only seven churches in Asia during the five
years just prior to the beginning of the Roman/Jewish war that took
place in the first century, from roughly 66.5 AD, to 70 AD (which is
3=2E5 years, see Daniel).
This statement, even with all of this uncertainty, is the *_ONLY_*
evidence used to support the "late date" theory. It has been accepted
by generations of people without really questioning it or examining it
in light of the book itself. The late date has been passed on to us in
the same way it was passed on to Eusebius, "=E2=80=A6it [was] handed down by
tradition=E2=80=A6". Tradition is not the way to interpret Scripture. (:
Those who hold to the "late date," have Revelation written during the
time of Domitian Caesar (AD 95-96). This date is determined by the
following statement by Irenaeus (AD 130 to AD 202), as quoted by
Eusebius, the church historian, in AD 325:
"We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to
the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should
be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been
announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For it was seen no
very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of
Domitian's reign."
There are things about this statement that need to be noted.First,
Irenaeus did not witness this. He referred to Polycarp (who supposedly
knew the apostle John). Secondly, the key part - "it is not long since
it was seen", is ambiguous. According to Irenaeus' recollection,
Polycarp saw "it" sometime in AD 95-96, during the last part Domitian's
reign. Thirdly, we do not know if the "it" Polycarp was referring to
was John, the visions he saw, the name of "Antichrist", or the book
itself.
Even more, even if it was a scroll of Revelation, or the entire book
that Polycarp had seen, that only means it was seen, and if it was
seen, it was surely written sometime before. So that in no way means it
was written in 96 AD!
Furthermore, it comes to us through three people separated by three
centuries. Simply put, this is hear-say.
There were also many others who had witnessed of an earlier date. Here
are a few:
Epiphanies (A. D. 315-403)
States Revelation was written under "Claudius [Nero] Caesar."
(Epiphanies, Heresies 51:12,)
Arethas (A.D. 850-984)
(On Revelation 7:4) "When the Evangelist received these oracles, the
destruction in which the Jews were involved was not yet inflicted by
the Romans."
Henry Cowles (1881)
"On the other hand the Syriac translation of the Apocalypse has this
superscription: "The Revelation which was made by God to John the
Evangelist in the Island of Patmos to which he was banished by Nero the
Emperor.'' "This superscription seems to testify, to a current
tradition in Syria at least as far back as his day, assuming the date
of the book to the age of Nero. Of later witnesses, Andreas of
Cappadocia [flourished about A. D. 500], in a commentary on this book,
favors the Neronian date".
I say it took many years for John to complete his work, even sneaking
out scrolls from prison via respectful Christian guards and visitors,
especially getting out the urgent letters to the seven assemblies that
were in Asia. I say evidence points toward John beginning in early 60's
AD, and finishing the last scroll by 69 AD. I wouldn't be suprised if
it took seven years of prison time to complete. The LORD do work in
mysterious ways, and it was no accident John was exiled into privacy,
seclusion, and even safety, but for to remain and see it all come to
pass, for He was the Apostle who remained!
PART THREE- SYMBOLS:
Now your thinking "When did this or that happen!", to which I would say
"I understand!" There are many questions! I have asked alot of
questions! Please keep in mind, often times as the Spirit speaks, all
is not as it seems, this is evident in the Old and New Testaments. Pray
for understanding, cry out for it, and just stay in the word everyday,
don't go anywhere else for truth, because everyday in the word is a
good day.
And please consider this carefully. Here are many of the words from the
book of Revelation used as SYMBOLS:
candlesticks
horses
locusts
beasts
birds
animals
dragons
heads
horns
teeth
tails
eyes
mouths
wings
hair
feet
hands
foreheads
odours
books
gold
seals
crowns
names
cities
nations
kings
tongues
Nicolaitans
Antipas
Armageddon
Balaam
Balak
Abaddon
Apollyon
Babylon
Sodom
Egypt
Jezebel
book of life
tree of live
water of life
hours
days
months
seasons
rod of iron
sickle
bow
blades
swords
reap
harvest
grass
trees
thrones
garments
robes
signs
images
wonders
marks
numbers
vials
trumpets
winds
rivers
lakes
seas
waters
clouds
floods
mountains
islands
lightnings
voices
thunders
earthquakes
hails
songs
winepresses
grapes
wine
balances
wheat
barley
oil
eyesalve
pebbles
manna
wreaths
palm fronds
whores
harlots
fornications
keys
doors
temples
synagogues
pillars
rich
poor
blind
naked
hot
cold
lukewarm
blood
deaths
fire
sulfur
brimstone
smoke
sun
moon
stars
And even heaven and earth are used as symbols in this great book of
symbols.
Would you like a FREE e-Bible? Download a FREE e-Bible from
<http://www.e-sword.net> After the initial download, ( KJV+, that's a
KJV with Strongs Concordance which is really helpful ), you can add as
many translations as you wish, most any version, most any language,
most helpful is the search tool, FREE add on's, and it works on or off
line. the Sword of the LORD with an electronic edge.
HOME <http://bible-mysteries.blogspot.com/>
.

User: "Fred A Stover"
Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ	20 Oct 2006 03:30:53 PM

"Flowerchild8245" <flowerchild8245@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1161259242.621634.302640@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

The great book of Revelation is a book of symbols, and it is not beside

Duh...
The book of revelation is no greater than any other book in scripture, but
thank you for warning me to put on the hip boots and to pick up the shovel.
No part of scripture is of higher canon to the other: "It is written, Man
shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the
mouth of God" (Matt 4:4). Does the promised blessing confuse you? That
refers to the book of prophecy we call the Bible. There is symbolism in
Revelation, as there is in the rest of scripture, and there are the
references to to Old Testament prophecies.
But... before returning to the beginning of your blasphemous journey and
going through another round-dance, respond to the objections to what you've
already posted. Why do you say the Lord's return already happened and that
it was spiritual, not bodily at pentecost? What scripture says is: "For many
deceivers are entering into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is
coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist" (2 John 1:7).
Scripture speaks of resurrection at His coming: "For since by man came
death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all
die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own
order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his
coming" (1 Cor. 15:21-23). The preterist resurrection is the folks "coming
out of their graves" (the Auther does not say they were resurrected, you do)
after His resurrection (Matt 27:53). Here we have another "coming,".and this
time He returns before He leaves.
Duh....
.
--
http://www.geocities.com/alphadiego66medina@sbcglobal.net/index.htm
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as
a little child, he shall not enter therein. (Mark 10:15)
.

User: "Flowerchild8245"
Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ	20 Oct 2006 05:31:17 PM

Fred A Stover wrote:

"Flowerchild8245" <flowerchild8245@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1161259242.621634.302640@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

The great book of Revelation is a book of symbols, and it is not beside

His words are life, and all that heed them will surely live!

But... before returning to the beginning of your blasphemous journey and
going through another round-dance, respond to the objections to what you've
already posted. Why do you say the Lord's return already happened and that
it was spiritual, not bodily at pentecost?

I have never said Christ returned at Pentecost. And Christ said of His
imminent "coming", He would not be "here" or "there".
Luk 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye
shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not
see it.
Luk 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not
after them, nor follow them.
http://thetestimonyofjesuschrist.blogspot.com/2006/07/coming-of-christ-not-here-or-there.html

What scripture says is: "For many
deceivers are entering into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is
coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist" (2 John 1:7).

What scripture says "is coming"? Perhaps a comparison of related topics
will reveal that the Apostle was saying Jesus had come in the flesh,
but many would not believe Jesus was the Messiah sent from God who had
come in the flesh:
[1]1John 2:18 Little children, IT IS THE LAST TIME: and as ye have
heard that
antichrist shall come, EVEN NOW THERE ARE MANY antichrists; whereby we
KNOW that
IT IS THE LAST TIME.
(remember, this was spoken in the first century)
[2]1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is
antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
[3]1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is
come in the
flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye
have
heard that it should come; AND EVEN NOW IS ALREADY IN THE WORLD.
(remember, this was spoken in the first century)
[4]2John 1:7 For MANY deceivers are entered into the world, who
confess not that
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an
antichrist.

Scripture speaks of resurrection at His coming: "For since by man came
death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all
die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own
order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his
coming" (1 Cor. 15:21-23). The preterist resurrection is the folks "coming
out of their graves" (the Auther does not say they were resurrected, you do)
after His resurrection (Matt 27:53). Here we have another "coming,".and this
time He returns before He leaves.

Each man in their own order. The scripture clearly states there were
firstfruits before His coming. The first resurrection was a
resurrection of the dead in Christ who were killed for preaching the
gospel, the first to preach, the first to die. It is said His coming
was a day of vengeance, having His reward for each man, even from the
grave. Only the dead are in need of resurrection, and because eternal
life is the promise, there is no more death. How could there be if
"eternal" life is the promise?
(Mat 16:27-28) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father
with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his
works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall
not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Jesus promised He would return within the lifetime of the Apostles. We
know this, because Jesus said SOME (at least one, not not most) would
be alive when this happened.
This is not the Transfiguration. There was no coming with the Father's
angels and no judging every man according to His works and they were
all still alive.
This is not Pentecost. There was no coming with the Father's angels and
no judging every man according to His works and they were all but one,
still alive.
Now see a verse that no one argues is about His Second Coming and see
that this is what Jesus was referring to, in Matthew 16:27-28.
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every
man according as his work shall be." - Revelation 22:12
JESUS was telling them some would be alive at His coming, and that His
coming was a day of vengeance. Some say "taste of death" does not mean
dying (twist-twist)...But can you taste an apple without biting into
it? Ever heard the expression "Never say die"? Well Jesus, He never
said "die" concerning the death of a believer! (Only to an unbeliever)
He said "taste of death" because only the body dies, the Spirit does
not die for the believer, for those who are His, they will never die.
Do you believe this?
Joh 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life.
Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone
who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
Yes Lord, I believe it! Though my flesh will die, my spirit will not
die, because you are the resurrection and the life. Because eternal
life is the promise, there is no more death.

Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as
a little child, he shall not enter therein. (Mark 10:15)

Proof enough, even a man-child may receive the kingdom of God as he
lives! Jesus, He reigns in the Kingdom of God, the kingdom is inside of
me. The Kingdom of God, what a mysterious thing!
.

User: "Fred A Stover"
Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ	21 Oct 2006 07:37:47 PM

"Flowerchild8245" <flowerchild8245@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1161383477.460166.206820@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Fred A Stover wrote:

"Flowerchild8245" <flowerchild8245@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1161259242.621634.302640@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

The great book of Revelation is a book of symbols, and it is not

beside

Duh...

The book of revelation is no greater than any other book in scripture,

but

thank you for warning me to put on the hip boots and to pick up the

shovel.

No part of scripture is of higher canon to the other: "It is written,

Man

shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of

the

mouth of God" (Matt 4:4). Does the promised blessing confuse you? That
refers to the book of prophecy we call the Bible. There is symbolism in
Revelation, as there is in the rest of scripture, and there are the
references to to Old Testament prophecies.

His words are life, and all that heed them will surely live!

They are, but your lies are death.

But... before returning to the beginning of your blasphemous journey and
going through another round-dance, respond to the objections to what

you've

already posted. Why do you say the Lord's return already happened and

that

it was spiritual, not bodily at pentecost?

I have never said Christ returned at Pentecost. And Christ said of His
imminent "coming", He would not be "here" or "there".

So you only have one return, the one before He left?

Luk 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye
shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not
see it.
Luk 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not
after them, nor follow them.

What scripture says is: "For many
deceivers are entering into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ

coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist" (2 John 1:7).

2 John 1:7 in the Greek the participle is present tense meaning "is coming."
That is what the Author said. The KJV mis-translated the present tense as
perfect tense. You'll also find it in other translations such as the NKJV
when you remove the words in italics that the trtanslators added to the
text, not to contradict the KJV.

[1]1John 2:18 Little children, IT IS THE LAST TIME: and as ye have
heard that
antichrist shall come, EVEN NOW THERE ARE MANY antichrists; whereby we
KNOW that
IT IS THE LAST TIME.

The last days are the time of the Messiah from His coming to the judgment.
The last three millennial days.

"coming

out of their graves" (the Auther does not say they were resurrected, you

do)

after His resurrection (Matt 27:53). Here we have another "coming,".and

this

time He returns before He leaves.

You lie Satan! As the above scripture says He is the firstfruits, and the
order is Him first, and the rest of His at His coming.
--
http://www.geocities.com/alphadiego66medina@sbcglobal.net/index.htm
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as
a little child, he shall not enter therein. (Mark 10:15)
.

User: "Fred A Stover"
Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ	21 Oct 2006 07:24:32 PM

"Flowerchild8245" <flowerchild8245@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1161259242.621634.302640@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Duh... continued

The TIME is "at hand" does mean "NEAR":
G1451 "At hand"- (Strong's Concordance):
???????
eggus
eng-goos'
From a primary verb ?????? agcho? (to squeeze or throttle; akin
to the base of G43); near (literally or figuratively, of place or
time): - from, at hand, near, nigh (at hand, unto), ready.

As usual, you ignore the Author and how He uses the words to give them your
definition.
What the Author means by "at hand" is more than just ready. Having a hammer
at hand means I have one ready whether I need it or not. The Author, on the
other hand, uses it to not only indicate that it is ready, but also that it
is certain to occur. "At hand" says nothing of when it will come to be.
That's an invention of your demon.
All has been at hand to be fulfilled from the beginning when it was
determined to be fulfilled. As He says, "I am God at hand" (Jer 23:23). The
time which was at hand in Revelation was at hand for Zephaniah (1:7), for
Joel (1:15), for Ezekiel (36:8), for Isaiah (13:6), and for Moses (Deut.
32:35).

And "shortly" come to PASS does mean - "A BRIEF SPACE OF TIME ":
G5034 "shortly"- (Strong's Concordance):
??????
tachos
takh'-os
From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722
prefixed) in haste: - + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

Wrong! What is rendered "shortly" is "en tache," and we are being told how
the it will happen, in haste, quickly, not when it will happen.
This is one of the more foolish examples of preterist alleged thought:
Misread the text, assume a hyperliteral interpretation of the auxilary
words, and interpret the plain text as simply symboloic.It;'s demonic, and
it's a very dumb demon.
(Luk 21:22) For these be the days of vengeance, that ALL things which
are written may be fulfilled.
(Mat 23:36) TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, ALL THESE THINGS WILL COME UPON THIS
GENERATION.
ROTFL!!!!
Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation [gennema: those generated by Adam, all
mankind] of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
By all our sins going to the cross with:
Matthew 23:36
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation
[genea, generated by Isarael].
.

User: "Flowerchild8245"
Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ	21 Oct 2006 09:36:02 PM

Fred A Stover wrote:

"Flowerchild8245" <flowerchild8245@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1161259242.621634.302640@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Duh... continued

The TIME is "at hand" does mean "NEAR":

G1451 "At hand"- (Strong's Concordance):
???????
eggus
eng-goos'
From a primary verb ?????? agcho? (to squeeze or throttle; akin
to the base of G43); near (literally or figuratively, of place or
time): - from, at hand, near, nigh (at hand, unto), ready.

As usual, you ignore the Author and how He uses the words to give them your
definition.
What the Author means by "at hand" is more than just ready. Having a hammer
at hand means I have one ready whether I need it or not. The Author, on the
other hand, uses it to not only indicate that it is ready, but also that it
is certain to occur. "At hand" says nothing of when it will come to be.
That's an invention of your demon.

All has been at hand to be fulfilled from the beginning when it was
determined to be fulfilled. As He says, "I am God at hand" (Jer 23:23). The
time which was at hand in Revelation was at hand for Zephaniah (1:7), for
Joel (1:15), for Ezekiel (36:8), for Isaiah (13:6), and for Moses (Deut.
32:35).

And "shortly" come to PASS does mean - "A BRIEF SPACE OF TIME ":

G5034 "shortly"- (Strong's Concordance):
??????
tachos
takh'-os
From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722
prefixed) in haste: - + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

Wrong! What is rendered "shortly" is "en tache," and we are being told how
the it will happen, in haste, quickly, not when it will happen.

This is one of the more foolish examples of preterist alleged thought:
Misread the text, assume a hyperliteral interpretation of the auxilary
words, and interpret the plain text as simply symboloic.It;'s demonic, and
it's a very dumb demon.

(Luk 21:22) For these be the days of vengeance, that ALL things which
are written may be fulfilled.

(Mat 23:36) TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, ALL THESE THINGS WILL COME UPON THIS
GENERATION.

ROTFL!!!!

Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation [gennema: those generated by Adam, all
mankind] of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

By all our sins going to the cross with:

Matthew 23:36
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation
[genea, generated by Isarael].

So you say Jesus was saying: "All these things shall come upon this
people generated by Israel"? Perhaps if you explore the many times
Jesus said "this generation", you will hear the Word of God reveal the
gospel truth, that when Jesus said "this generation", He was speaking
of His generation, an "evil", "faithless and twisted", "evil and
adulterous", "adulterous and sinful", and "faithless" generation.
(Luke 17:25) But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of
this generation.
Jesus suffered many things and was rejected by His generation! Jesus
said "this generation" many times in many different ways, not just
once. Here are some examples...Please Hear His words:
(Mat 11:16-19) But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like
unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have
mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. For John came neither
eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came
eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a
winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified
of her children.
Jesus said "what shall I liken this generation", saying John came and
He came, yet both were rejected. John came in the first century, Jesus
came in the first century, Jesus was clearly speaking of His
generation, the generation of the first century.
(Mat 12:41) The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this
generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the
preaching of Jonah; and, behold, a greater than Jonah is here.
Jesus said "this generation" would be judged, because He was there
amongst them and they rejected Him. Jesus was clearly speaking of His
generation, the same who repented not, the generation of the first
century.
(Mat 12:42) The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with
this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost
parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a
greater than Solomon is here.
Jesus said "this generation" would be judged, because He was there
amongst them and they rejected Him. Jesus was clearly speaking of His
generation, the same who repented not, the generation of the first
century.
(Mar 8:12) And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this
generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no
sign be given unto this generation.
Jesus said that the only sign His generation would see was simular to
the sign of Jonah, that as Jonah was in the belly of a whale three
days, after three days He would rise from the dead. The sign was given
to them in the first century, "this generation" was in the first
century...
(Luk 11:30) For as Jonah was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also
the Son of man be to this generation.
Again:
(Luk 11:50-51) That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from
the foundation of the world, may be required of [this generation]; From
the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between
the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required
of [this generation].
Jesus was scathing the Pharisees and said the blood of all the prophets
"shall be required of this generation", the same generation that
rejected Him, as Jesus reveals here...
(Luk 17:25) But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of
this generation.
Jesus was rejected by His generation, the generation of the first
century. When Jesus said "This generation" in this scripture, and more
than 10 times, He was speaking of His generation. That is the gospel
truth. Jesus spoke of His generation almost 25 times saying just
"generation" as well. Jesus even spoke of His generation in many
PARABLES too, often times, almost everytime, the parables were about
the Pharisees, and they knew it!
Plainly:
(Mat 23:36) TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, ALL THESE THINGS WILL COME UPON THIS
GENERATION.
(Mat 24:34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till
all these things be fulfilled.
(Mar 13:30) Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass,
till all these things be done.
(Luk 21:32) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away,
till all be fulfilled.
(see The figgy fixation of 1948
<http://thetestimonyofjesuschrist.blogspot.com/2006/07/figgy-fixation-of-1948.html>)
Why His generation?
[Isaiah 53:7-8] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened
not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a
sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his
generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the
living, stricken for the transgression of my people?
[Acts 8:33] In his humiliation justice was denied him. Who can describe
his generation? For his life is taken away from the earth...
That's why. This was the condemnation of His generation:
Jesus said:
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the
world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds
were evil.
Jesus said:
(Luk 21:22) for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is
written.
"Who can describe His generation"?, the generation of the Messiah.
Jesus did quite well, saying "you"- "faithless and twisted"..."evil and
adulterous"..."evil"..."adulterous and sinful"...and "faithless"
generation. That about says it all.
.

User: "Fred A Stover"
Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ	22 Oct 2006 02:07:24 AM

"Flowerchild8245" <flowerchild8245@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1161484562.871339.23160@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Fred A Stover wrote:

"Flowerchild8245" <flowerchild8245@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1161259242.621634.302640@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Duh... continued

The TIME is "at hand" does mean "NEAR":

As usual, you ignore the Author and how He uses the words to give them

your

definition.
What the Author means by "at hand" is more than just ready. Having a

hammer

at hand means I have one ready whether I need it or not. The Author, on

the

other hand, uses it to not only indicate that it is ready, but also that

is certain to occur. "At hand" says nothing of when it will come to be.
That's an invention of your demon.

All has been at hand to be fulfilled from the beginning when it was
determined to be fulfilled. As He says, "I am God at hand" (Jer 23:23).

The

time which was at hand in Revelation was at hand for Zephaniah (1:7),

for

Joel (1:15), for Ezekiel (36:8), for Isaiah (13:6), and for Moses (Deut.
32:35).

And "shortly" come to PASS does mean - "A BRIEF SPACE OF TIME ":

G5034 "shortly"- (Strong's Concordance):
??????
tachos
takh'-os
From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722
prefixed) in haste: - + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

Wrong! What is rendered "shortly" is "en tache," and we are being told

how

the it will happen, in haste, quickly, not when it will happen.

This is one of the more foolish examples of preterist alleged thought:
Misread the text, assume a hyperliteral interpretation of the auxilary
words, and interpret the plain text as simply symboloic.It;'s demonic,

and

it's a very dumb demon.

(Luk 21:22) For these be the days of vengeance, that ALL things which
are written may be fulfilled.

(Mat 23:36) TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, ALL THESE THINGS WILL COME UPON THIS
GENERATION.

ROTFL!!!!

Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation [gennema: those generated by Adam, all
mankind] of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

By all our sins going to the cross with:

Matthew 23:36
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this

generation

[genea, generated by Isarael].

Duh....
You haven't read the book. All the sins of the world came upon Jesus,
generated by Israel. Unclear on the concepts of generator, generating, and
generation?

(Luke 17:25) But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of
this generation.

Jesus suffered many things and was rejected by His generation! Jesus
said "this generation" many times in many different ways, not just
once. Here are some examples...Please Hear His words:

Duh... The point is which word He chooses to use for generation, and the
generator for each word used. As in the verses you cite below but can't see:

(Mat 11:16-19) But whereunto shall I liken this generation?

The word He uses here for generation is genea, those generated by Israel
(Jacob).

(Mat 12:41) The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this
generation,

The word He uses here for generation is genea, those generated by Israel
(Jacob).

(Mat 12:42) The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with
this generation,

The word He uses here for generation is genea, those generated by Israel
(Jacob).

(Mar 8:12) And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this
generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no
sign be given unto this generation.

The word He uses here for generation is genea, those generated by Israel
(Jacob).

(Luk 11:30) For as Jonah was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also
the Son of man be to this generation.

The word He uses here for generation is genea, those generated by Israel
(Jacob).

(Luk 11:50-51) That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from
the foundation of the world, may be required of [this generation]; From
the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between
the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required
of [this generation].

The word He uses here for generation is genea, in this case Jesus generated
by Israel (Jacob) pays the price.

(Luk 17:25) But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of
this generation.

The word He uses here for generation is genea, those generated by Israel
(Jacob).
In every verse you cited you ignored the Author and lisrened to your demon.

Plainly:

(Mat 23:36) TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, ALL THESE THINGS WILL COME UPON THIS
GENERATION.

Plainly, you're an idiot. All those things came upon Jesus, generated by
Israel.

(Mat 24:34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till
all these things be fulfilled.

The folks generated by Israel shall not pass.
.

User: "BoD"
Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ	22 Oct 2006 06:03:22 PM

On Sun, 2006-10-22 at 08:24 +0000, Giant Waffle wrote:

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:00:35 GMT, while bungee jumping, BoD
<BoD@the-house-of-god.com> shouted thusly:

This Age ! This Generation !

G1074 - genea (ghen-eh-ah') - From (a presumed derivative of)
G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons):
- age, generation, nation, time.

Yes, the period or the persons, both of which note
a generation, in the same way that it is common to
use the word.

As Thayer's puts it... "the whole of a people living
at a given time".
Now why you think that Jesus went around trying to confuse
people (especially since we both know that you wouldn't
even try to argue the definition in any other verse), I have
no idea. (:

The problem is, you use "generation" so as to fit your doctrinal
concept.
However genea (ghen-eh-ah') - From G1085; "a generation by implication",
An Age.
Now if you take off your Thayer's head for a second. You might see
something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age

Are you seriously going to try to get us to believe that
an English dictionary from the 21st century, is telling
us the definition of a Greek word, from an ancient,
dead language, called "Koine Greek" and that it really
means, "an astrological age" (seek link name)?

Yes I,am genea is more an "Age" than a "generation".
and here's for why.
MOSES is thought by many to have ushered in the Age of Aries.
+/- 2500 BC - 300 BC
The AGE of ARIES was the age of expanding Empires; Chinese, Persian,
Greek and then Roman. Each of these civilizations sought to always bring
more land and territory under their control. These Empires did so by
conquering the indigenous peoples of the lands as they expanded outward.
When Moses threw out the golden calf, he knew it was the end of the
Taurus Age or the fourth age in our present great Age. He instructed his
followers to get rid of the bull, put lambs' blood on the doors, and
place Rams' horns in the temples. By looking at the Master Calendar, the
Mazzaroth, or the Zodiac in the heavens, anyone could see that it was
the dawning of the Age of Aries the ram or lamb. It was the start of the
fifth age in the great Age
AGE OF PISCES
+/- 300 BC - 20?? AD
The Age of Pisces has been dominated largely by religion, Christianity
in particular, with its mixture of control by fear, persecution and
spiritual salvation.
The vernal point is the location of the sun in the sidereal zodiac on
the day of the spring equinox. Our present tropical calender and zodiac
places this as 1 degree Aries, when in fact, due to the precession,
every 72 years it is 1 degree backwards in the zodiac. As of February
10, 1983, the longitude of the vernal point was exactly 5 1/2 degrees
Pisces in the sidereal zodiac. For this reason, we live in the
ASTRONOMICAL AGE of Pisces.
The AGE of PISCES is related to WATER and the subconscious mind. All
human bodies are roughly 90% water, we each, must also take in new water
daily. These are two very important similarities between all Homo
Sapiens. "We" are all connected in several other ways too!
The AGE of PISCES was a period when "evil" or the "dark side" of the
Human Mind controlled civilization. FEAR has been humanity's primary
motivation to act, for over two thousands years.
Unreasonable FEAR showing its ugly head in the last decade or so.
That is why wise Ancient's hid as much valuable information as possible,
to preserve it. They knew society was going into long term decline and
much of the important stuff would be destroyed or misinterpreted,
intentionally and unintentionally.
The beginning of AGE of PISCES should be dated from the Birth of Buddha.
Buddha came from an angel. That was several hundred years before Jesus
Christ was born from a virgin. The AGE of PISCES is best characterized
by the above two guys, their spiritual philosophy's and Mohamed. 3 great
religions have come upon Earth during the AGE of PISCES, Buddhism,
Christianity and Islam.
Christianity has come to dominate the planet during the AGE of PISCES
because of it's inherent violence. Along with it's hypocrisy and GREED.
Christian's shouldn't be to worried about remaining in power because the
Moslems are following the examples set by the ruling Christians.
The WORLD has been at WAR since the beginning of the PISCES AGE. During
this period Many cruel things were done to human beings by their fellow
Humans. Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Radovan Karadzic,
genocide in AFRICA Spanish Inquisition and Bush have killed hundreds of
millions of people.
AGE OF AQUARIUS ENLIGHTENMENT AND PERSONAL FREEDOM
The precession of the equinoxes has to do with more than just the two
different zodiac systems. As the equinoxes precess, they relate to the
Great Ages of Man. These Ages mark different periods where significant
evolutionary changes have occurred. The Ages are defined by the Sidereal
Sign that is the current location of the Vernal Point.
Currently, the Spring Equinox (0� of Aries in the Tropical Zodiac)
occurs at about 7� of the Sidereal Sign of Pisces and we will be in the
Sign of Pisces until the Spring Equinox processes into the Sidereal Sign
of Aquarius, which marks the beginning of the Age of Aquarius. (Even
agreeing on this definition of the "Ages" there is much dispute as to
the actual year that the "Age of Aquarius" begins/began.

When you intentionally try to change the primary definition
of the word from a Koine Greek dictionary (above), you told
us plainly that you knew that you were lying and that your
concern is not the word of God, but your own personal,
man made doctrine. (:

G1074 - genea (ghen-eh-ah') is From a presumed derivative of G1085 Age.
My doctrine? Sorry doctrine is your baby.
.

User: "gatekeeper"
Title: Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ	22 Oct 2006 11:57:27 AM

Fred A Stover wrote:

"Flowerchild8245" <flowerchild8245@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1161484562.871339.23160@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Fred A Stover wrote:

"Flowerchild8245" <flowerchild8245@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1161259242.621634.302640@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Duh... continued

The TIME is "at hand" does mean "NEAR":

As usual, you ignore the Author and how He uses the words to give them

your

definition.
What the Author means by "at hand" is more than just ready. Having a

hammer

at hand means I have one ready whether I need it or not. The Author, on

the

other hand, uses it to not only indicate that it is ready, but also that

The

time which was at hand in Revelation was at hand for Zephaniah (1:7),

for

Joel (1:15), for Ezekiel (36:8), for Isaiah (13:6), and for Moses (Deut.
32:35).

And "shortly" come to PASS does mean - "A BRIEF SPACE OF TIME ":

G5034 "shortly"- (Strong's Concordance):
??????
tachos
takh'-os
From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722
prefixed) in haste: - + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

Wrong! What is rendered "shortly" is "en tache," and we are being told

how

and

generation

[genea, generated by Isarael].

Duh....

You haven't read the book. All the sins of the world came upon Jesus,
generated by Israel. Unclear on the concepts of generator, generating, and
generation?