| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
01 Jan 2005 10:07:46 PM |
| Object: |
The rise of Reckless Faith in the church today? |
Many Christians have the misconception that to win the world to Christ
we must first win the world's favor. If we can get the world to like
us, they will embrace our Savior. That is the philosophy behind the
user-friendly church movement.. (John MacArthur).
Is this one major problem in the church today, or is MacArthur being
ultra critical of everyone again? What would pastor Dave say about
this quote? What are your views?
John
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| User: "JCB" |
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| Title: Re: The rise of Reckless Faith in the church today? |
02 Jan 2005 09:30:08 AM |
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<johnw_94020@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1104638866.283378.202240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Many Christians have the misconception that to win the world to Christ
we must first win the world's favor. If we can get the world to like
us, they will embrace our Savior. That is the philosophy behind the
user-friendly church movement.. (John MacArthur).
Is this one major problem in the church today, or is MacArthur being
ultra critical of everyone again? What would pastor Dave say about
this quote? What are your views?
I think I can understand what he is saying. He is probably reacting to the
success of many of the 'seeker-sensitive' churches that have been booming in
the LA area. I cannot say that I fully agree with him, much of this
movement has been too long in coming such as a change in music, style and
format that is more appealing to the modern person. But, in part, he has a
point, the message of the gospel has become "believe in Christ and go to
Heaven" with no understanding of the Life that is offered to people now,
thus creating Christians who have no need or desire to change, thus are no
different than the world.
Knowing MacArthur this standpoint makes sense, his philosophy has always
been more of the 'legalistic brand where you don't really know you are a
Christian unless you start to change your life by doing X, Y and Z.
I guess I can see both sides clearly because I have been on both sides and
don't agree with either.
Is this one of the major problems in the church today? Only in that both
sides are focused on a point that isn't the point.
God Bless,
JCB
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The rise of Reckless Faith in the church today? |
02 Jan 2005 04:43:50 PM |
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JCB wrote:
Knowing MacArthur this standpoint makes sense, his philosophy has
always
been more of the 'legalistic brand where you don't really know you
are a
Christian unless you start to change your life by doing X, Y and Z.
In what way? How is MacArthur wrong. He stands for the truth, and
refutes the hypocrites!
I guess I can see both sides clearly because I have been on both
sides and
don't agree with either.
Is this one of the major problems in the church today? Only in that
both
sides are focused on a point that isn't the point.
Really? How is MacArthur wrong?
God Bless,
JCB
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| User: "JCB" |
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| Title: Re: The rise of Reckless Faith in the church today? |
02 Jan 2005 06:43:48 PM |
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<johnw_94020@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1104705830.553532.234690@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
JCB wrote:
Knowing MacArthur this standpoint makes sense, his philosophy has
always
been more of the 'legalistic brand where you don't really know you
are a
Christian unless you start to change your life by doing X, Y and Z.
In what way? How is MacArthur wrong. He stands for the truth, and
refutes the hypocrites!
All I can give is my opinions, please consider that as you read.
I have nothing directly wrong against MacArthur's basic understanding of
Christianity except that I do not believe that it really focuses on what it
takes to live the life that Christ offers.
Having lived in the area for some time I have visited his Church and am
aware of what it offers, but do not find that it deals with what it takes to
change within.
Having emotional issues yourself, you are probably aware that change is not
just a matter of not doing one thing and doing another. To truly change
from within takes a messy ordeal of facing what is wrong and allowing God to
change you, this is neither easy nor structured. It offend involves risking
yourself to people who will not be judgmental, but encouraging and take on
your pain with you. This is not what is generally offered by MacArthur's
church. Their basic doctrine is (and I know this is a generalization) If
you are a Christian, then you won't have these problems(or, you will behave
in a given way). This produces a guilt laden relationship with God and,
although it does produce excellent behavior, it does not produce changed
people.
I believe in changing a person from within, dealing with those issues and
thought patterns that are the cause for sinful behavior. This is done by
honest loving relationships and understanding who you are in Christ
(unconditional love). It is added by the Classical Spiritual Disciplines
and (of course) the working of the Holy Spirit. The person then can be
transformed into someone who's behavior is Holy, but because they are
becoming holy. This lifestyle is not a burden, it is a joy! It is the
natural, obvious way to behave and brings peace and joy in the most troubled
circumstances.
This is a VERY brief explanation, but I hope it answers some of your
questions.
God Bless,
JCB
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| User: "Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: The rise of Reckless Faith in the church today? |
01 Jan 2005 10:34:01 PM |
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John Mac Arthur did not say "everyone" he made it clear in the
statement that only some would do that by the words "Many Christians"
who many is that, surely not everone.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The rise of Reckless Faith in the church today? |
01 Jan 2005 11:23:39 PM |
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Raymond wrote:
John Mac Arthur did not say "everyone" he made it clear in the
statement that only some would do that by the words "Many Christians"
who many is that, surely not everone.
I know that... Why is the majority of the church corrupted and how can
we fix it? If you want change or read allot of Macarthur it may be
hard for some college students to find a job in some churches. The
church today does not want to change.
John
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The rise of Reckless Faith in the church today? |
02 Jan 2005 08:04:05 PM |
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wrote:
Raymond wrote:
John Mac Arthur did not say "everyone" he made it clear in the
statement that only some would do that by the words "Many
Christians"
who many is that, surely not everone.
I know that... Why is the majority of the church corrupted and how
can
we fix it? If you want change or read allot of Macarthur it may be
hard for some college students to find a job in some churches. The
church today does not want to change.
Is this the same John MacArthur that wrote "The MACARTHUR Study
Bible"? I purchased it and his ideas are different but I did not see
anything in it about what you are implying. Can you give a page or
references in his notes, which I could look up? I sure do not see the
majority of the Church in such a problem. Then what do you mean by
"Majority" or what do you see as the "Church" a limited group of people
who belong to the group you see as the Church. The United Nations
numbering says there are a Billion Catholics in the world; do you see
them in the Church? They also list a Billion non-catholic Christians
as church people also. What part of those Billions are you calling a
majority? The churches I have pastored sure do not fit your comments
and the many Churches I have preached in the USA and China, the
Philippines do not fit any such corruption. Then what do you see as
Corruption, like Mr. Steve Winter to him it seems everyone but they
that accept him is wrong and his majority is limited to only they that
do follow what he says, so all then would be corrupted. I have many
college students in our Churches and more and more are coming finding
the love of Christ and being Baptized in water/spirit. They are not
having problems finding work or churches to pastor or minister in. We
just open three new areas for church work in Hong Kong, and many house
churches in China. Your statements to me are all not true, in fact.
Many say what you did, but they are not out in the world ministering
and seeing people coming to Christ as we have. I would like some
information about John MacArthur and where you are getting your
statements from, from his Study Bible. I know he is a Trinitarian and
makes it look like that is what everyone believes in his statements and
some of his notes, then I may or may not agree with him on these
points, but what you said is not on that doctrine so please try to
reply to my post.
Yours truly
Raymond Knapp
www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
John
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