There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever.



 Religions > Bible > There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever.

LINK TO THIS PAGE  


rating :  0   |  0


  Page 4 of 24

1

 

2

 

3

 

4

 

5

 

6

 

7

 

8

 

9

 

10

 

11

 

12

 

13

 

14

 

15

 

16

 

17

 

18

 

19

 

20

 

21

 

22

 

23

 

24

 
Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "Craig Chilton"
Date: 09 Feb 2004 09:43:56 PM
Object: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever.
For months, now, I have challenged the Anti-Gay-Rights
bigots to produce so much as even ***ONE FACT*** that
supports their loathsome and hateful stance against this
reasonable and sensible human right.
NO one has been able to do that.
So their ONLY possible reason is homophobic bigotry.
Which is worth precisely as much as racial bigotry.
Not a plugged Confederate penny.
-- Craig Chilton

.

User: "ZenIsWhen"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 13 Feb 2004 09:09:04 AM
"Elbow Baggins" <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a0affcb5.0402130500.568376f5@posting.google.com...

(Craig Chilton) wrote in message

news:<40305143.12432376@netnews.mchsi.com>...

For months, now, I have challenged the Anti-Gay-Rights
bigots to produce so much as even ***ONE FACT*** that
supports their loathsome and hateful stance against this
reasonable and sensible human right.

NO one has been able to do that.

So their ONLY possible reason is homophobic bigotry.

Which is worth precisely as much as racial bigotry.

Not a plugged Confederate penny.


-- Craig Chilton




Dumb *****.

We oppose same sex marriage because it redefines marriage for the rest of

us.
Yep ... and allowing blacks, or women, the right to vote wil ruin politics
forever!

We do not oppose you rights, most of us support civil unions, we just
want you to call it a marrige. Hell, I don't object -IF- you call it a Gay

Marriage.



You do have the right to be happy and secure in your relationships.
(Well- as happy and secure as the rest of us.)
You don't have the right to change -OUR- lives that drastically.

Heaven forbid that you should live in a democracy where people you DON'T
agree with are given the same rights as you!!!!
.
User: "Elbow Baggins"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 13 Feb 2004 12:59:06 PM
"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message news:<102pq4hoab8o80e@corp.supernews.com>...

"Elbow Baggins" <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a0affcb5.0402130500.568376f5@posting.google.com...

(Craig Chilton) wrote in message

news:<40305143.12432376@netnews.mchsi.com>...

For months, now, I have challenged the Anti-Gay-Rights
bigots to produce so much as even ***ONE FACT*** that
supports their loathsome and hateful stance against this
reasonable and sensible human right.

NO one has been able to do that.

So their ONLY possible reason is homophobic bigotry.

Which is worth precisely as much as racial bigotry.

Not a plugged Confederate penny.


-- Craig Chilton




Dumb *****.

We oppose same sex marriage because it redefines marriage for the rest of

us.

Yep ... and allowing blacks, or women, the right to vote wil ruin politics
forever!

It hasn't, fuckwit.



We do not oppose you rights, most of us support civil unions, we just
want you to call it a marrige. Hell, I don't object -IF- you call it a Gay

Marriage.



You do have the right to be happy and secure in your relationships.
(Well- as happy and secure as the rest of us.)
You don't have the right to change -OUR- lives that drastically.


Heaven forbid that you should live in a democracy where people you DON'T
agree with are given the same rights as you!!!!

Democracy ; one person one vote. We who oppose same sex marriage are in the
majority. I know where that leaves me, do you know where it leaves you?
I think you're out of gas.
.
User: "Adam H."

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 13 Feb 2004 01:19:58 PM
On 13 Feb 2004 10:59:06 -0800,
(Elbow Baggins)
wrote:

"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message news:<102pq4hoab8o80e@corp.supernews.com>...

"Elbow Baggins" <

> wrote in message
news:a0affcb5.0402130500.568376f5@posting.google.com...

(Craig Chilton) wrote in message

news:<40305143.12432376@netnews.mchsi.com>...

For months, now, I have challenged the Anti-Gay-Rights
bigots to produce so much as even ***ONE FACT*** that
supports their loathsome and hateful stance against this
reasonable and sensible human right.

NO one has been able to do that.

So their ONLY possible reason is homophobic bigotry.

Which is worth precisely as much as racial bigotry.

Not a plugged Confederate penny.


-- Craig Chilton




Dumb *****.

We oppose same sex marriage because it redefines marriage for the rest of

us.

Yep ... and allowing blacks, or women, the right to vote wil ruin politics
forever!


It hasn't, fuckwit.



We do not oppose you rights, most of us support civil unions, we just
want you to call it a marrige. Hell, I don't object -IF- you call it a Gay

Marriage.



You do have the right to be happy and secure in your relationships.
(Well- as happy and secure as the rest of us.)
You don't have the right to change -OUR- lives that drastically.


Heaven forbid that you should live in a democracy where people you DON'T
agree with are given the same rights as you!!!!


Democracy ; one person one vote. We who oppose same sex marriage are in the
majority. I know where that leaves me, do you know where it leaves you?

I think you're out of gas.

"Democracy" as an excuse to strip rights away from a segment of the
population is no longer democracy.
---
"A man's ethical behavior should be based
effectually on sympathy, education, and social
ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man
would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be
restrained by fear of punishment and hope of
reward after death."
Albert Einstein
.
User: "Elbow Baggins"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 13 Feb 2004 05:28:27 PM
Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message news:<0q8q209ppa06a1lhq4gp4o3s948hglqkls@4ax.com>...

On 13 Feb 2004 10:59:06 -0800,

(Elbow Baggins)
wrote:

"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message news:<102pq4hoab8o80e@corp.supernews.com>...

"Elbow Baggins" <

> wrote in message
news:a0affcb5.0402130500.568376f5@posting.google.com...

(Craig Chilton) wrote in message

news:<40305143.12432376@netnews.mchsi.com>...

For months, now, I have challenged the Anti-Gay-Rights
bigots to produce so much as even ***ONE FACT*** that
supports their loathsome and hateful stance against this
reasonable and sensible human right.

NO one has been able to do that.

So their ONLY possible reason is homophobic bigotry.

Which is worth precisely as much as racial bigotry.

Not a plugged Confederate penny.


-- Craig Chilton




Dumb *****.

We oppose same sex marriage because it redefines marriage for the rest of

us.

Yep ... and allowing blacks, or women, the right to vote wil ruin politics
forever!


It hasn't, fuckwit.



We do not oppose you rights, most of us support civil unions, we just
want you to call it a marrige. Hell, I don't object -IF- you call it a Gay

Marriage.



You do have the right to be happy and secure in your relationships.
(Well- as happy and secure as the rest of us.)
You don't have the right to change -OUR- lives that drastically.


Heaven forbid that you should live in a democracy where people you DON'T
agree with are given the same rights as you!!!!


Democracy ; one person one vote. We who oppose same sex marriage are in the
majority. I know where that leaves me, do you know where it leaves you?

I think you're out of gas.


"Democracy" as an excuse to strip rights away from a segment of the
population is no longer democracy.

They never had the right, so they lose nothing.
They just want it. Like I want to tall and good looking, well
I never was, so I've lost nothing, I just want it.
But I'll get over it ( some day :-P )
Marriage always has been and always should be between a man and a woman.
You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same. It isn't
and it never will be.


---
"A man's ethical behavior should be based
effectually on sympathy, education, and social
ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man
would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be
restrained by fear of punishment and hope of
reward after death."
Albert Einstein

.
User: "Craig Chilton"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 13 Feb 2004 08:38:47 PM
On 13 Feb 2004 15:28:27 -0800,
Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]

Marriage always has been and always should be
between a man and a woman.

Wrong. And ALREADY, that has changed.

You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't and it never will be.

It is, and most of the world knows it. Feel free to keep living
in your own little private and bigoted fantasyland, though, if that's
what trips yer trigger.
-- Craig Chilton

.
User: "Elbow Baggins"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 02:11:04 PM
(Craig Chilton) wrote in message news:<402f88a2.6883229@netnews.mchsi.com>...

On 13 Feb 2004 15:28:27 -0800,
Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:


[ ... ]

Marriage always has been and always should be
between a man and a woman.


Wrong. And ALREADY, that has changed.

You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't and it never will be.


It is, and most of the world knows it. Feel free to keep living
in your own little private and bigoted fantasyland, though, if that's
what trips yer trigger.

Craig Craig Craig (May I call you Craig?)
I'm starting to think of you as a cheap shot artist.....
And as far the rest of the world goes.... well it's a mess isn't it?
It's certainly in no postition to lecture anybody about anything.



-- Craig Chilton


.
User: "David.Callyar"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 06:40:19 PM
Elbow Baggins wrote:

xanadu222@mchsi.com (Craig Chilton) wrote in message news:<402f88a2.6883229@netnews.mchsi.com>...

On 13 Feb 2004 15:28:27 -0800,
Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:


[ ... ]

Marriage always has been and always should be
between a man and a woman.


Wrong. And ALREADY, that has changed.

You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't and it never will be.


It is, and most of the world knows it. Feel free to keep living
in your own little private and bigoted fantasyland, though, if that's
what trips yer trigger.


Craig Craig Craig (May I call you Craig?)
I'm starting to think of you as a cheap shot artist.....

And as far the rest of the world goes.... well it's a mess isn't it?
It's certainly in no postition to lecture anybody about anything.

And which country is beaming its clabbert into this countries
turning the world into the bigots as in the USA. The world
cannot move toward peace if there is legitimized bigotry by
the world governments.
.

User: "Craig Chilton"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 03:54:46 PM
On 14 Feb 2004 12:11:04 -0800,
Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

[ ... ]

Marriage always has been and always should be
between a man and a woman.

Wrong. And ALREADY, that has changed.

You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't and it never will be.

It is, and most of the world knows it. Feel free to keep living
in your own little private and bigoted fantasyland, though, if that's
what trips yer trigger.

Craig Craig Craig (May I call you Craig?)

Why not? It's my REAL name. (Something that most of the
egalitarians tend to go by.)

I'm starting to think of you as a cheap shot artist.

Am I supposed to start bawling now?

And as far the rest of the world goes.... well it's a mess isn't it?
It's certainly in no postition to lecture anybody about anything.

Some parts of the world are more of a mess than others. Take
European Union for an example of a counry that has a different set
of problems from our own, but at the same time is far advanced,
compared to America, in many ways. Brightest note: The social
poison of the RRR cult is almost noexistent there. Thus, some of
its states already have legalized same-sex marriage, and in most
of them, abortion is recognize for what it IS -- merely a valuable
REMEDY. On the flip side, thee's a growing problem with anti-
Semitism. On the whole, though, the USA would do WELL to
learn from Europe. And for an even nearer mentor -- from Canada.
Mariage is marriage, and that is what it always be called. It's
not a case system. A same-sex marriage is every bit as much a
marriage as a hetero one, and equal in all ways.
And I predict that even as little as a decade from now, the whole
world will look back on this traditional period, and wonder how
**anyone** could ever hav been as wacko and hateful as today's
bigots.
That's about as shot a time s it took for us to look back that
way at the segregationists. There's a word for the agenda that
would lessen the value of marriage for same-sex couple, or
oppose it:
LUDICROUS.
-- Craig Chilton

.
User: "Elbow Baggins"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 16 Feb 2004 01:12:09 PM
(Craig Chilton) wrote in message news:<40319143.38663152@netnews.mchsi.com>...

On 14 Feb 2004 12:11:04 -0800,
Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:



[ ... ]

Marriage always has been and always should be
between a man and a woman.


Wrong. And ALREADY, that has changed.


You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't and it never will be.


It is, and most of the world knows it. Feel free to keep living
in your own little private and bigoted fantasyland, though, if that's
what trips yer trigger.


Craig Craig Craig (May I call you Craig?)


Why not? It's my REAL name. (Something that most of the
egalitarians tend to go by.)

I'm starting to think of you as a cheap shot artist.


Am I supposed to start bawling now?

Just letting you know I have no respect of cheap shots.
Take them if you wish, I won't return them.
The only thing that is accomplished with cheap shot is a demonstration
of how low you will go. Unless of course it's really clever. E.G.
An exchange between Lady Aster and Winston Churchill;
The two politicians had been at each other's throat all weekend when
Lady Astor said, "Winston, if I were your wife I'd put poison in your
coffee." Whereupon Winston said, "Nancy, if I were your husband I'd
drink.


And as far the rest of the world goes.... well it's a mess isn't it?
It's certainly in no postition to lecture anybody about anything.


Some parts of the world are more of a mess than others. Take
European Union for an example of a counry that has a different set
of problems from our own, but at the same time is far advanced,
compared to America, in many ways. Brightest note: The social
poison of the RRR cult is almost noexistent there. Thus, some of
its states already have legalized same-sex marriage, and in most
of them, abortion is recognize for what it IS -- merely a valuable
REMEDY. On the flip side, thee's a growing problem with anti-
Semitism. On the whole, though, the USA would do WELL to
learn from Europe. And for an even nearer mentor -- from Canada.

Mariage is marriage, and that is what it always be called. It's
not a case system. A same-sex marriage is every bit as much a
marriage as a hetero one, and equal in all ways.

And I predict that even as little as a decade from now, the whole
world will look back on this traditional period, and wonder how
**anyone** could ever hav been as wacko and hateful as today's
bigots.

That's about as shot a time s it took for us to look back that
way at the segregationists. There's a word for the agenda that
would lessen the value of marriage for same-sex couple, or
oppose it:

LUDICROUS.
-- Craig Chilton


.
User: "Craig Chilton"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 16 Feb 2004 06:50:59 PM
On 16 Feb 2004 11:12:09 -0800,
Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

[ ... ]

Marriage always has been and always should be
between a man and a woman.

Wrong. And ALREADY, that has changed.

You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't and it never will be.

It is, and most of the world knows it. Feel free to keep living
in your own little private and bigoted fantasyland, though, if that's
what trips yer trigger.

Craig Craig Craig (May I call you Craig?)

Why not? It's my REAL name. (Something that most of the
egalitarians tend to go by.)

I'm starting to think of you as a cheap shot artist.

Am I supposed to start bawling now?

Just letting you know I have no respect of cheap shots. Take
them if you wish, I won't return them. The only thing that is
accomplished with cheap shot is a demonstration of how low
you will go. Unless of course it's really clever. E.G.

An exchange between Lady Aster and Winston Churchill;

The two politicians had been at each other's throat all weekend when
Lady Astor said, "Winston, if I were your wife I'd put poison in your
coffee." Whereupon Winston said, "Nancy, if I were your husband I'd
drink."

ROTFLMAO!!!! Talk about the perfect squelch!!
(Remember that feature in the old Saturday Evening Post? I wonder
if that magazine is still around? When I was a kid, that feature, and
"Miscellany," in TIME, which they unfortunately dropped decades ago,
were my favorite regular magazine features.
Hmmm. Guess I should go to work on my "cleverness." :)

And as far the rest of the world goes.... well it's a mess isn't it?
It's certainly in no postition to lecture anybody about anything.

(BTW, upon looking at what I wrote, below, I see that my typing
severely outpaced my keyboard's ability to keep up, and several
letters didn't show up. I've corrected that, and now it reads *much*
more clearly) ---

Some parts of the world are more of a mess than others. Take
European Union for an example of a country that has a different set
of problems from our own, but at the same time is far advanced,
compared to America, in many ways. Brightest note: The social
poison of the RRR cult is almost nonexistent there. Thus, some of
its states already have legalized same-sex marriage, and in most
of them, abortion is recognized for what it IS -- merely a valuable
REMEDY. On the flip side, there's a growing problem with anti-
Semitism. On the whole, though, the USA would do WELL to
learn from Europe. And for an even nearer mentor -- from Canada.

Marriage is marriage, and that is what it always will be called. It's
not a caste system. A same-sex marriage is every bit as much a
marriage as a hetero one, and equal in all ways.

And I predict that even as little as a decade from now, the whole
world will look back on this transitional period, and wonder how
**anyone** could ever have been as wacko and hateful as today's
bigots.

That's about as short a time as it took for us to look back that
way at the segregationists. There's a word for the agenda that
would lessen the value of marriage for same-sex couples, or
oppose it:

LUDICROUS.

-- Craig Chilton

.
User: "Elbow Baggins"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 20 Feb 2004 09:51:44 AM
(Craig Chilton) wrote in message news:<403a5f55.18667858@netnews.mchsi.com>...

On 16 Feb 2004 11:12:09 -0800,
Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:



[ ... ]

Marriage always has been and always should be
between a man and a woman.


Wrong. And ALREADY, that has changed.


You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't and it never will be.


It is, and most of the world knows it. Feel free to keep living
in your own little private and bigoted fantasyland, though, if that's
what trips yer trigger.


Craig Craig Craig (May I call you Craig?)


Why not? It's my REAL name. (Something that most of the
egalitarians tend to go by.)


I'm starting to think of you as a cheap shot artist.


Am I supposed to start bawling now?


Just letting you know I have no respect of cheap shots. Take
them if you wish, I won't return them. The only thing that is
accomplished with cheap shot is a demonstration of how low
you will go. Unless of course it's really clever. E.G.

An exchange between Lady Aster and Winston Churchill;

The two politicians had been at each other's throat all weekend when
Lady Astor said, "Winston, if I were your wife I'd put poison in your
coffee." Whereupon Winston said, "Nancy, if I were your husband I'd
drink."


ROTFLMAO!!!! Talk about the perfect squelch!!

(Remember that feature in the old Saturday Evening Post?

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1189/4_274/87706206/p1/article.jhtml

I wonder
if that magazine is still around? When I was a kid, that feature, and
"Miscellany," in TIME,

You can get those too, but you have to pay for them I think.
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1101890619-152041,00.html

which they unfortunately dropped decades ago,
were my favorite regular magazine features.

Hmmm. Guess I should go to work on my "cleverness." :)

And as far the rest of the world goes.... well it's a mess isn't it?
It's certainly in no postition to lecture anybody about anything.


(BTW, upon looking at what I wrote, below, I see that my typing
severely outpaced my keyboard's ability to keep up, and several
letters didn't show up. I've corrected that, and now it reads *much*
more clearly) ---

Some parts of the world are more of a mess than others. Take
European Union for an example of a country that has a different set
of problems from our own, but at the same time is far advanced,
compared to America, in many ways. Brightest note: The social
poison of the RRR cult is almost nonexistent there. Thus, some of
its states already have legalized same-sex marriage, and in most
of them, abortion is recognized for what it IS -- merely a valuable
REMEDY. On the flip side, there's a growing problem with anti-
Semitism. On the whole, though, the USA would do WELL to
learn from Europe. And for an even nearer mentor -- from Canada.

Marriage is marriage, and that is what it always will be called. It's
not a caste system. A same-sex marriage is every bit as much a
marriage as a hetero one, and equal in all ways.

And I predict that even as little as a decade from now, the whole
world will look back on this transitional period, and wonder how
**anyone** could ever have been as wacko and hateful as today's
bigots.

That's about as short a time as it took for us to look back that
way at the segregationists. There's a word for the agenda that
would lessen the value of marriage for same-sex couples, or
oppose it:

LUDICROUS.



-- Craig Chilton


.
User: "Craig Chilton"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 20 Feb 2004 10:44:09 PM
On 20 Feb 2004 07:51:44 -0800,
Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

[ ... ]

Marriage always has been and always should be
between a man and a woman.

Wrong. And ALREADY, that has changed.

You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't and it never will be.

It is, and most of the world knows it. Feel free to keep living
in your own little private and bigoted fantasyland, though, if that's
what trips yer trigger.


Craig Craig Craig (May I call you Craig?)

Why not? It's my REAL name. (Something that most of the
egalitarians tend to go by.)

I'm starting to think of you as a cheap shot artist.

Am I supposed to start bawling now?

Just letting you know I have no respect of cheap shots. Take
them if you wish, I won't return them. The only thing that is
accomplished with cheap shot is a demonstration of how low
you will go. Unless of course it's really clever. E.G.

An exchange between Lady Aster and Winston Churchill;

The two politicians had been at each other's throat all weekend when
Lady Astor said, "Winston, if I were your wife I'd put poison in your
coffee." Whereupon Winston said, "Nancy, if I were your husband I'd
drink."

ROTFLMAO!!!! Talk about the perfect squelch!!

(Remember that feature in the old Saturday Evening Post?

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1189/4_274/87706206/p1/article.jhtml

I wonder if that magazine is still around? When I was a kid, that
feature, and "Miscellany," in TIME, ...

You can get those too, but you have to pay for them I think.

http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1101890619-152041,00.html

Hey!! Neat links!! Thanks!

...which they unfortunately dropped decades ago, were my
favorite regular magazine features.

Hmmm. Guess I should go to work on my "cleverness." :)

And as far the rest of the world goes.... well it's a mess isn't it?
It's certainly in no postition to lecture anybody about anything.

(BTW, upon looking at what I wrote, below, I see that my typing
severely outpaced my keyboard's ability to keep up, and several
letters didn't show up. I've corrected that, and now it reads *much*
more clearly) ---

Some parts of the world are more of a mess than others. Take
European Union for an example of a country that has a different set
of problems from our own, but at the same time is far advanced,
compared to America, in many ways. Brightest note: The social
poison of the RRR cult is almost nonexistent there. Thus, some of
its states already have legalized same-sex marriage, and in most
of them, abortion is recognized for what it IS -- merely a valuable
REMEDY. On the flip side, there's a growing problem with anti-
Semitism. On the whole, though, the USA would do WELL to
learn from Europe. And for an even nearer mentor -- from Canada.

Marriage is marriage, and that is what it always will be called. It's
not a caste system. A same-sex marriage is every bit as much a
marriage as a hetero one, and equal in all ways.

And I predict that even as little as a decade from now, the whole
world will look back on this transitional period, and wonder how
**anyone** could ever have been as wacko and hateful as today's
bigots.

That's about as short a time as it took for us to look back that
way at the segregationists. There's a word for the agenda that
would lessen the value of marriage for same-sex couples, or
oppose it:

LUDICROUS.

-- Craig Chilton

.
User: "Elbow Baggins"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 21 Feb 2004 01:10:30 PM
(Craig Chilton) wrote in message news:<404be013.50252250@netnews.mchsi.com>...

On 20 Feb 2004 07:51:44 -0800,
Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:



[ ... ]

Marriage always has been and always should be
between a man and a woman.


Wrong. And ALREADY, that has changed.


You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't and it never will be.


It is, and most of the world knows it. Feel free to keep living
in your own little private and bigoted fantasyland, though, if that's
what trips yer trigger.


Craig Craig Craig (May I call you Craig?)


Why not? It's my REAL name. (Something that most of the
egalitarians tend to go by.)


I'm starting to think of you as a cheap shot artist.


Am I supposed to start bawling now?


Just letting you know I have no respect of cheap shots. Take
them if you wish, I won't return them. The only thing that is
accomplished with cheap shot is a demonstration of how low
you will go. Unless of course it's really clever. E.G.

An exchange between Lady Aster and Winston Churchill;

The two politicians had been at each other's throat all weekend when
Lady Astor said, "Winston, if I were your wife I'd put poison in your
coffee." Whereupon Winston said, "Nancy, if I were your husband I'd
drink."


ROTFLMAO!!!! Talk about the perfect squelch!!

(Remember that feature in the old Saturday Evening Post?


http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1189/4_274/87706206/p1/article.jhtml


I wonder if that magazine is still around? When I was a kid, that
feature, and "Miscellany," in TIME, ...


You can get those too, but you have to pay for them I think.

http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1101890619-152041,00.html


Hey!! Neat links!! Thanks!

NP Hey Craig, I've mentioned this in other postings but I'd
like you opinion, should we be scared of this new Mel Gibson movie?
I can't or just won't imagine Americans all pumped up on Christian
zeal. I'm packing a survial pack, food clothes water and passport and cash.
No I'm not joking.

...which they unfortunately dropped decades ago, were my
favorite regular magazine features.

Hmmm. Guess I should go to work on my "cleverness." :)


And as far the rest of the world goes.... well it's a mess isn't it?
It's certainly in no postition to lecture anybody about anything.


(BTW, upon looking at what I wrote, below, I see that my typing
severely outpaced my keyboard's ability to keep up, and several
letters didn't show up. I've corrected that, and now it reads *much*
more clearly) ---


Some parts of the world are more of a mess than others. Take
European Union for an example of a country that has a different set
of problems from our own, but at the same time is far advanced,
compared to America, in many ways. Brightest note: The social
poison of the RRR cult is almost nonexistent there. Thus, some of
its states already have legalized same-sex marriage, and in most
of them, abortion is recognized for what it IS -- merely a valuable
REMEDY. On the flip side, there's a growing problem with anti-
Semitism. On the whole, though, the USA would do WELL to
learn from Europe. And for an even nearer mentor -- from Canada.

Marriage is marriage, and that is what it always will be called. It's
not a caste system. A same-sex marriage is every bit as much a
marriage as a hetero one, and equal in all ways.

And I predict that even as little as a decade from now, the whole
world will look back on this transitional period, and wonder how
**anyone** could ever have been as wacko and hateful as today's
bigots.

That's about as short a time as it took for us to look back that
way at the segregationists. There's a word for the agenda that
would lessen the value of marriage for same-sex couples, or
oppose it:

LUDICROUS.



-- Craig Chilton


.





User: "Sean"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE,whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 03:58:44 PM
How often do you take it up your ***** ?
Craig Chilton wrote:


On 14 Feb 2004 12:11:04 -0800,
Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:


[ ... ]

Marriage always has been and always should be
between a man and a woman.


Wrong. And ALREADY, that has changed.


You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't and it never will be.


It is, and most of the world knows it. Feel free to keep living
in your own little private and bigoted fantasyland, though, if that's
what trips yer trigger.


Craig Craig Craig (May I call you Craig?)


Why not? It's my REAL name. (Something that most of the
egalitarians tend to go by.)

I'm starting to think of you as a cheap shot artist.


Am I supposed to start bawling now?

And as far the rest of the world goes.... well it's a mess isn't it?
It's certainly in no postition to lecture anybody about anything.


Some parts of the world are more of a mess than others. Take
European Union for an example of a counry that has a different set
of problems from our own, but at the same time is far advanced,
compared to America, in many ways. Brightest note: The social
poison of the RRR cult is almost noexistent there. Thus, some of
its states already have legalized same-sex marriage, and in most
of them, abortion is recognize for what it IS -- merely a valuable
REMEDY. On the flip side, thee's a growing problem with anti-
Semitism. On the whole, though, the USA would do WELL to
learn from Europe. And for an even nearer mentor -- from Canada.

Mariage is marriage, and that is what it always be called. It's
not a case system. A same-sex marriage is every bit as much a
marriage as a hetero one, and equal in all ways.

And I predict that even as little as a decade from now, the whole
world will look back on this traditional period, and wonder how
**anyone** could ever hav been as wacko and hateful as today's
bigots.

That's about as shot a time s it took for us to look back that
way at the segregationists. There's a word for the agenda that
would lessen the value of marriage for same-sex couple, or
oppose it:

LUDICROUS.
-- Craig Chilton


.
User: "Craig Chilton"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 04:14:22 PM
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:58:44 -0500,
Sean <sean@aol.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote:

Elbow Baggins <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

[ ... ]

Marriage always has been and always should be
between a man and a woman.

Wrong. And ALREADY, that has changed.

You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't and it never will be.

It is, and most of the world knows it. Feel free to keep living
in your own little private and bigoted fantasyland, though, if that's
what trips yer trigger.

Craig Craig Craig (May I call you Craig?)

Why not? It's my REAL name. (Something that most of the
egalitarians tend to go by.)

I'm starting to think of you as a cheap shot artist.

Am I supposed to start bawling now?

And as far the rest of the world goes.... well it's a mess isn't it?
It's certainly in no postition to lecture anybody about anything.

Some parts of the world are more of a mess than others. Take
European Union for an example of a counry that has a different set
of problems from our own, but at the same time is far advanced,
compared to America, in many ways. Brightest note: The social
poison of the RRR cult is almost noexistent there. Thus, some of
its states already have legalized same-sex marriage, and in most
of them, abortion is recognize for what it IS -- merely a valuable
REMEDY. On the flip side, thee's a growing problem with anti-
Semitism. On the whole, though, the USA would do WELL to
learn from Europe. And for an even nearer mentor -- from Canada.

Mariage is marriage, and that is what it always be called. It's
not a case system. A same-sex marriage is every bit as much a
marriage as a hetero one, and equal in all ways.

And I predict that even as little as a decade from now, the whole
world will look back on this traditional period, and wonder how
**anyone** could ever hav been as wacko and hateful as today's
bigots.

That's about as shot a time s it took for us to look back that
way at the segregationists. There's a word for the agenda that
would lessen the value of marriage for same-sex couple, or
oppose it:

LUDICROUS.

How often do you take it up your ***** ?

ROTFL!!!!! Looks like I got the goat of yet *another* petty
and ignorant little hate-bigot.
LOL!!!!
-- Craig Chilton

.

User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE,whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 04:59:18 PM
Sean <sean@aol.com> wrote:

How often do you take it up your ***** ?

I doubt that he's interested in you.
Troll for dates somewhere else.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "David.Callyar"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE,whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 06:44:29 PM
Sean wrote:

How often do you take it up your ***** ?

When was the last time you took your head out of yours?
.





User: "Opie Taylor"

Title: Re: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 13 Feb 2004 09:56:51 PM
On 13 Feb 2004 15:28:27 -0800,
(Elbow
Baggins) wrote:
~Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:<0q8q209ppa06a1lhq4gp4o3s948hglqkls@4ax.com>...
~> On 13 Feb 2004 10:59:06 -0800,

(Elbow Baggins)
~> wrote:
~>
~> >"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:<102pq4hoab8o80e@corp.supernews.com>...
~> >> "Elbow Baggins" <
> wrote in
message
~> >>
news:a0affcb5.0402130500.568376f5@posting.google.com...
~> >> >
(Craig Chilton) wrote in message
~> news:<40305143.12432376@netnews.mchsi.com>...
~> >> > > For months, now, I have challenged the
Anti-Gay-Rights
~> >> > > bigots to produce so much as even ***ONE FACT***
that
~> >> > > supports their loathsome and hateful stance
against this
~> >> > > reasonable and sensible human right.
~> >> > >
~> >> > > NO one has been able to do that.
~> >> > >
~> >> > > So their ONLY possible reason is homophobic
bigotry.
~> >> > >
~> >> > > Which is worth precisely as much as racial
bigotry.
~> >> > >
~> >> > > Not a plugged Confederate penny.
~> >> > >
~> >> > >
~> >> > > -- Craig Chilton

~> >> >
~> >> >
~> >> > Dumb *****.
~> >> >
~> >> > We oppose same sex marriage because it redefines
marriage for the rest of
~> >> us.
~> >>
~> >> Yep ... and allowing blacks, or women, the right to
vote wil ruin politics
~> >> forever!
~> >>
~> >
~> >It hasn't, fuckwit.
~> >
~> >>
~> >>
~> >> > We do not oppose you rights, most of us support
civil unions, we just
~> >> > want you to call it a marrige. Hell, I don't object
-IF- you call it a Gay
~> Marriage.
~> >> >
~> >> >
~> >> > You do have the right to be happy and secure in your
relationships.
~> >> > (Well- as happy and secure as the rest of us.)
~> >> > You don't have the right to change -OUR- lives that
drastically.
~> >>
~> >> Heaven forbid that you should live in a democracy
where people you DON'T
~> >> agree with are given the same rights as you!!!!
~> >
~> >Democracy ; one person one vote. We who oppose same sex
marriage are in the
~> >majority. I know where that leaves me, do you know where
it leaves you?
~> >
~> >I think you're out of gas.
~>
~> "Democracy" as an excuse to strip rights away from a
segment of the
~> population is no longer democracy.
~>
~
~They never had the right, so they lose nothing.
~They just want it. Like I want to tall and good looking,
well
~I never was, so I've lost nothing, I just want it.
~But I'll get over it ( some day :-P )
~
~
~Marriage always has been and always should be between a man
and a woman.
~You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same.
It isn't
~and it never will be.
~
~
<snip>
that's really childish logic. very childish indeed!
_______________________________
People who want to share their religious
views with you almost never want you
to share yours with them.
.

User: "Adam H."

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 13 Feb 2004 07:21:32 PM
On 13 Feb 2004 15:28:27 -0800,
(Elbow Baggins)
wrote:

Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message news:<0q8q209ppa06a1lhq4gp4o3s948hglqkls@4ax.com>...

On 13 Feb 2004 10:59:06 -0800,

(Elbow Baggins)
wrote:

"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message news:<102pq4hoab8o80e@corp.supernews.com>...

"Elbow Baggins" <

> wrote in message
news:a0affcb5.0402130500.568376f5@posting.google.com...

(Craig Chilton) wrote in message

news:<40305143.12432376@netnews.mchsi.com>...

For months, now, I have challenged the Anti-Gay-Rights
bigots to produce so much as even ***ONE FACT*** that
supports their loathsome and hateful stance against this
reasonable and sensible human right.

NO one has been able to do that.

So their ONLY possible reason is homophobic bigotry.

Which is worth precisely as much as racial bigotry.

Not a plugged Confederate penny.


-- Craig Chilton




Dumb *****.

We oppose same sex marriage because it redefines marriage for the rest of

us.

Yep ... and allowing blacks, or women, the right to vote wil ruin politics
forever!


It hasn't, fuckwit.



We do not oppose you rights, most of us support civil unions, we just
want you to call it a marrige. Hell, I don't object -IF- you call it a Gay

Marriage.



You do have the right to be happy and secure in your relationships.
(Well- as happy and secure as the rest of us.)
You don't have the right to change -OUR- lives that drastically.


Heaven forbid that you should live in a democracy where people you DON'T
agree with are given the same rights as you!!!!


Democracy ; one person one vote. We who oppose same sex marriage are in the
majority. I know where that leaves me, do you know where it leaves you?

I think you're out of gas.


"Democracy" as an excuse to strip rights away from a segment of the
population is no longer democracy.


They never had the right, so they lose nothing.

Wrong. Read the UN Declaration of Human Rights and get back to us when
you know what you're talking about.

They just want it. Like I want to tall and good looking, well
I never was, so I've lost nothing, I just want it.
But I'll get over it ( some day :-P )


Marriage always has been and always should be between a man and a woman.
You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same. It isn't
and it never will be.

---
"A man's ethical behavior should be based
effectually on sympathy, education, and social
ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man
would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be
restrained by fear of punishment and hope of
reward after death."
Albert Einstein
.
User: "Elbow Baggins"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 02:06:53 PM
Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message news:<outq20p1hgs0ni604nfusjbvfqmbcl1qfv@4ax.com>...

On 13 Feb 2004 15:28:27 -0800,

(Elbow Baggins)
wrote:

Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message news:<0q8q209ppa06a1lhq4gp4o3s948hglqkls@4ax.com>...

On 13 Feb 2004 10:59:06 -0800,

(Elbow Baggins)
wrote:

"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message news:<102pq4hoab8o80e@corp.supernews.com>...

"Elbow Baggins" <

> wrote in message
news:a0affcb5.0402130500.568376f5@posting.google.com...

(Craig Chilton) wrote in message

news:<40305143.12432376@netnews.mchsi.com>...

For months, now, I have challenged the Anti-Gay-Rights
bigots to produce so much as even ***ONE FACT*** that
supports their loathsome and hateful stance against this
reasonable and sensible human right.

NO one has been able to do that.

So their ONLY possible reason is homophobic bigotry.

Which is worth precisely as much as racial bigotry.

Not a plugged Confederate penny.


-- Craig Chilton




Dumb *****.

We oppose same sex marriage because it redefines marriage for the rest of

us.

Yep ... and allowing blacks, or women, the right to vote wil ruin politics
forever!


It hasn't, fuckwit.



We do not oppose you rights, most of us support civil unions, we just
want you to call it a marrige. Hell, I don't object -IF- you call it a Gay

Marriage.



You do have the right to be happy and secure in your relationships.
(Well- as happy and secure as the rest of us.)
You don't have the right to change -OUR- lives that drastically.


Heaven forbid that you should live in a democracy where people you DON'T
agree with are given the same rights as you!!!!


Democracy ; one person one vote. We who oppose same sex marriage are in the
majority. I know where that leaves me, do you know where it leaves you?

I think you're out of gas.


"Democracy" as an excuse to strip rights away from a segment of the
population is no longer democracy.


They never had the right, so they lose nothing.


Wrong. Read the UN Declaration of Human Rights and get back to us when
you know what you're talking about.

Ignoring the millions of cheaps shots that you just left yourself
wide open for.... What in the world makes you think the UN makes
laws for this country?
Do YOU know what your talking about?
Now go read a book or something.....sheeze!


They just want it. Like I want to tall and good looking, well
I never was, so I've lost nothing, I just want it.
But I'll get over it ( some day :-P )


Marriage always has been and always should be between a man and a woman.
You want to couple? Good, just don't pretend it's the same. It isn't
and it never will be.


---
"A man's ethical behavior should be based
effectually on sympathy, education, and social
ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man
would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be
restrained by fear of punishment and hope of
reward after death."
Albert Einstein

.
User: "Peacenik"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 10:36:25 PM
"Elbow Baggins" <agrybaggins@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a0affcb5.0402141206.4426aa1f@posting.google.com...

Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message

news:<outq20p1hgs0ni604nfusjbvfqmbcl1qfv@4ax.com>...

Wrong. Read the UN Declaration of Human Rights and get back to us when
you know what you're talking about.


Ignoring the millions of cheaps shots that you just left yourself
wide open for.... What in the world makes you think the UN makes
laws for this country?

The US signed that declaration. The US agreed to the principles set forth in
that declaration.
In addition, the US Constitution requires that all US citizens shall have
equal rights.
--
Peacenik
.

User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 02:11:30 PM
Elbow Baggins <
> wrote:

Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message news:<outq20p1hgs0ni604nfusjbvfqmbcl1qfv@4ax.com>...

(Elbow Baggins)

Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com>

On 13 Feb 2004 10:59:06 -0800,

(Elbow Baggins)

Democracy ; one person one vote. We who oppose same sex marriage are in the
majority. I know where that leaves me, do you know where it leaves you?

I think you're out of gas.


"Democracy" as an excuse to strip rights away from a segment of the
population is no longer democracy.


They never had the right, so they lose nothing.


Wrong. Read the UN Declaration of Human Rights and get back to us when
you know what you're talking about.


Ignoring the millions of cheaps shots that you just left yourself
wide open for.... What in the world makes you think the UN makes
laws for this country?

But you don't care about the laws of this country. For example, the
US Constitution says, quite explicitely, that people must be treated
EQUALLY under the law. Not one set of rights for some people and a
lesser set of rights for the minority.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Adam H."

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 02:10:09 PM
On 14 Feb 2004 12:06:53 -0800,
(Elbow Baggins)
wrote:

Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message news:<outq20p1hgs0ni604nfusjbvfqmbcl1qfv@4ax.com>...

On 13 Feb 2004 15:28:27 -0800,

(Elbow Baggins)
wrote:

Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message news:<0q8q209ppa06a1lhq4gp4o3s948hglqkls@4ax.com>...

On 13 Feb 2004 10:59:06 -0800,

(Elbow Baggins)
wrote:

"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message news:<102pq4hoab8o80e@corp.supernews.com>...

"Elbow Baggins" <

> wrote in message
news:a0affcb5.0402130500.568376f5@posting.google.com...

(Craig Chilton) wrote in message

news:<40305143.12432376@netnews.mchsi.com>...

For months, now, I have challenged the Anti-Gay-Rights
bigots to produce so much as even ***ONE FACT*** that
supports their loathsome and hateful stance against this
reasonable and sensible human right.

NO one has been able to do that.

So their ONLY possible reason is homophobic bigotry.

Which is worth precisely as much as racial bigotry.

Not a plugged Confederate penny.


-- Craig Chilton




Dumb *****.

We oppose same sex marriage because it redefines marriage for the rest of

us.

Yep ... and allowing blacks, or women, the right to vote wil ruin politics
forever!


It hasn't, fuckwit.



We do not oppose you rights, most of us support civil unions, we just
want you to call it a marrige. Hell, I don't object -IF- you call it a Gay

Marriage.



You do have the right to be happy and secure in your relationships.
(Well- as happy and secure as the rest of us.)
You don't have the right to change -OUR- lives that drastically.


Heaven forbid that you should live in a democracy where people you DON'T
agree with are given the same rights as you!!!!


Democracy ; one person one vote. We who oppose same sex marriage are in the
majority. I know where that leaves me, do you know where it leaves you?

I think you're out of gas.


"Democracy" as an excuse to strip rights away from a segment of the
population is no longer democracy.


They never had the right, so they lose nothing.


Wrong. Read the UN Declaration of Human Rights and get back to us when
you know what you're talking about.


Ignoring the millions of cheaps shots that you just left yourself
wide open for.... What in the world makes you think the UN makes
laws for this country?
Do YOU know what your talking about?
Now go read a book or something.....sheeze!

Ah, someone else who doesn't learn.
The US is a signatory of that declaration. I suggest you find out what
that means.
[snip]
---
"A man's ethical behavior should be based
effectually on sympathy, education, and social
ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man
would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be
restrained by fear of punishment and hope of
reward after death."
Albert Einstein
.







User: "Mark Sebree"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 13 Feb 2004 12:57:41 PM
(Elbow Baggins) wrote in message news:<a0affcb5.0402130500.568376f5@posting.google.com>...

(Craig Chilton) wrote in message news:<40305143.12432376@netnews.mchsi.com>...

For months, now, I have challenged the Anti-Gay-Rights
bigots to produce so much as even ***ONE FACT*** that
supports their loathsome and hateful stance against this
reasonable and sensible human right.

NO one has been able to do that.

So their ONLY possible reason is homophobic bigotry.

Which is worth precisely as much as racial bigotry.

Not a plugged Confederate penny.


-- Craig Chilton




Dumb *****.

We oppose same sex marriage because it redefines marriage for the rest of us.
We do not oppose you rights, most of us support civil unions, we just
want you to call it a marrige. Hell, I don't object -IF- you call it a Gay Marriage.


You do have the right to be happy and secure in your relationships.
(Well- as happy and secure as the rest of us.)
You don't have the right to change -OUR- lives that drastically.

I don't understand. How would allowing homosexuals to marry, and
thereby affording them exactly the same rights you have, change your
life at all? You still have the same rights. You are not being asked
give up any rights. You are not being asked to do anything that you
are not already doing. All that is being done is to give homosexuals
the same rights that you have, to marry the person of their choice,
rights that should be their to start with.
Then again, I never did understand bigotry and the desire to take away
or deny rights to others. I guess that is because I care enough for
people in general that I rather them be happy than for them to be
under my control. I have no wish to impose my will on anyone, nor do
I think that they should do as I command, except for maybe the command
to "be happy with yourself and your life."
I have yet to see a single objective reason to deny homosexuals the
right to marry. All I have seen are the opinions that people
(homophobes) have that disapprove of homosexuality in general, and
thereby they should be denied their lawful rights.
Mark Sebree
.
User: "Eric Bohlman"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 13 Feb 2004 01:31:38 PM
(Mark Sebree) wrote in
news:c30d43e8.0402131057.52433f5e@posting.google.com:

I don't understand. How would allowing homosexuals to marry, and
thereby affording them exactly the same rights you have, change your
life at all? You still have the same rights. You are not being asked
give up any rights. You are not being asked to do anything that you
are not already doing. All that is being done is to give homosexuals
the same rights that you have, to marry the person of their choice,
rights that should be their to start with.

He and his wife would no longer be able to tell themselves that they have
something that others, no matter how much they want it, can't get.


Then again, I never did understand bigotry and the desire to take away
or deny rights to others. I guess that is because I care enough for
people in general that I rather them be happy than for them to be
under my control. I have no wish to impose my will on anyone, nor do
I think that they should do as I command, except for maybe the command
to "be happy with yourself and your life."

I think the reason is that you have what psychologists call an "internal
locus of control"; you view the course of your life as being mostly
influenced by *your* actions. When someone with an internal locus of
control finds his life to be unsatisfactory, his first thought is "what
could I do differently?" Bigots, OTOH, usually have an "external locus of
control"; they view the courses of their lives as being at the mercy of
others, most of whom they don't trust at all and a few of whom they trust
blindly.
When someone with an external locus of control finds his life
unsatisfactory, the only things he can think of doing are either coercing
others (the ones he doesn't trust) or sucking up to his favority authority
figures (the ones he trusts absolutely). In other words, they perceive
their lives as out of control and are trying to get that control back by
trying to control the other people who they think are running their lives.
It never really works for them; the more control they manage to exercise
over others, the more control they feel they *need* to exercise. Yet their
lives don't get better. In fact they get worse, but the rationalization is
always "if my life is getting more and more out of control as I exercise
more power, it must be because I'm still not exercising *enough* power."
People with external loci of control are often heard talking incessantly
about "responsibility" but are seldom seen taking it. Of course, locus of
control isn't the only factor in bigotry; it has to be combined with
arrogance. It works out like:
Humility + internal locus of control = well-adjusted and happy.
Arrogance + internal locus of control = crushed by the weight of the chip
on your shoulder.
Humility + external locus of control = cowardice.
Arrogance + external locus of control = control freak.
.
User: "Elbow Baggins"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 13 Feb 2004 05:57:25 PM
Eric Bohlman <ebohlman@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<Xns948E8A0A0CF25ebohlmanomsdevcom@130.133.1.17>...

sebree@infionline.net (Mark Sebree) wrote in
news:c30d43e8.0402131057.52433f5e@posting.google.com:

I don't understand. How would allowing homosexuals to marry, and
thereby affording them exactly the same rights you have, change your
life at all? You still have the same rights. You are not being asked
give up any rights. You are not being asked to do anything that you
are not already doing. All that is being done is to give homosexuals
the same rights that you have, to marry the person of their choice,
rights that should be their to start with.


He and his wife would no longer be able to tell themselves that they have
something that others, no matter how much they want it, can't get.


Then again, I never did understand bigotry and the desire to take away
or deny rights to others. I guess that is because I care enough for
people in general that I rather them be happy than for them to be
under my control. I have no wish to impose my will on anyone, nor do
I think that they should do as I command, except for maybe the command
to "be happy with yourself and your life."


I think the reason is that you have what psychologists call an "internal
locus of control"; you view the course of your life as being mostly
influenced by *your* actions. When someone with an internal locus of
control finds his life to be unsatisfactory, his first thought is "what
could I do differently?" Bigots, OTOH, usually have an "external locus of
control"; they view the courses of their lives as being at the mercy of
others, most of whom they don't trust at all and a few of whom they trust
blindly.

When someone with an external locus of control finds his life
unsatisfactory, the only things he can think of doing are either coercing
others (the ones he doesn't trust) or sucking up to his favority authority
figures (the ones he trusts absolutely). In other words, they perceive
their lives as out of control and are trying to get that control back by
trying to control the other people who they think are running their lives.
It never really works for them; the more control they manage to exercise
over others, the more control they feel they *need* to exercise. Yet their
lives don't get better. In fact they get worse, but the rationalization is
always "if my life is getting more and more out of control as I exercise
more power, it must be because I'm still not exercising *enough* power."

People with external loci of control are often heard talking incessantly
about "responsibility" but are seldom seen taking it. Of course, locus of
control isn't the only factor in bigotry; it has to be combined with
arrogance. It works out like:

Humility + internal locus of control = well-adjusted and happy.

Arrogance + internal locus of control = crushed by the weight of the chip
on your shoulder.

Humility + external locus of control = cowardice.

Arrogance + external locus of control = control freak.

Doesn't anyone really fall for this psycho babble *****?
I zoned out, didn't ( couldn't) read it all.
I have a real life to lead you see......
.
User: "Peacenik"

Title: Re: There is NO Valid Reason to Block Same-Sex Marriage. NONE, whatsoever. 14 Feb 2004 12:12:04 AM
"Elbow Baggins