| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bible John" |
| Date: |
12 Jul 2005 12:50:14 AM |
| Object: |
TNIV debunked |
Friends thought you could use this.
RELIGION: In trying to make the Bible more accessible to today's young
readers, the TNIV toys with Scripture's meaning and accuracy | by Wayne
Grudem
Purportedly "sexist" language has become taboo in some circles today.
"Mankind" must be changed to "humankind," "he" must be changed to "he or
she," and words like "businessmen" or "mailman" are taboo.
Bible translations such as the New Revised Standard, the Good News
Bible, and the New Living Translation have also adopted regendered
language, and now the most widely used contemporary translation, the New
International Version (NIV), is imitating them with Today's New
International Version (TNIV).
Some Bible scholars think that's great. Craig Blomberg, a Bible scholar
at Denver Seminary, tells of young people and new Christians asking "Why
are the Proverbs written only to men?" because of all the language of
"fathers," "sons," and that generic "he." Mr. Blomberg says, "It is
still hard for them to get it out of their heads that the Bible isn't
outdated or biased against women in ways that it never intended to be."
But other Bible scholars, and many evangelicals generally, have three
questions about editing the Bible to respond to that concern. The first
arises from the basic Christian understanding that all Scripture is
inspired by God. Sometimes God's writers used words like "anthropoi"
that refer to no specific gender, so they can legitimately be translated
"people" rather than "men." But when the inspired words clearly specify
one gender or one person, should translators change "fathers" to
"parents" and "he" to "they"? Does this imply that God really didn't
know what He was doing?
If this first question emphasizes God's glory, the second concerns
church teaching. The NIV, unlike some already-regendered versions, has
become the standard pew Bible in thousands of churches, and its images
stick in our heads. For example, think of this NIV picture of the wicked
man in chapter 15 of the book of Job: "he shakes his fist at God and
vaunts himself against the Almighty."
Compare that with the image produced by TNIV translators: "they shake
their fists at God and vaunt themselves against the Almighty." An author
who wrote about a lonely individual, only to find that his editor had
turned his passage into a story about a mob in rebellion, would be
rightfully angry.
A third question about the TNIV involves honoring agreements. In 1997,
following WORLD's exposure of the plan to change the NIV, James Dobson
brought together evangelical leaders and the presidents of the
International Bible Society, which holds the NIV copyright, and NIV
publisher Zondervan. IBS, which had been roundly criticized by many
evangelicals, quieted the furor by announcing that there would be no
"gender-related language revisions in any NIV Bible licensed by IBS."
Yet, the introduction to the new Bible begins, "Today's New
International Version (TNIV) is a revision of the New International
Version (NIV)" (p. A14)‹and that's what the agreement did not allow.
God's glory, church teaching, honesty‹but does any of this really matter
in comparison with the opportunity to de-genderize biblical language?
Bible scholar Wayne Grudem, in the review of the TNIV that follows,
argues that it does.
‹The Editors
Eight years ago I compared 15 Bible passages in the New International
Version (NIV) and the NIV-Inclusive Language Edition (NIVI), which had
already been published in England ("Comparing the two NIVs," WORLD,
April 19, 1997). Zondervan and the International Bible Society were
quietly making plans to publish a similar gender-neutral NIVI in the
United States, but when the Christian public saw the actual changes that
had been made to the NIVI in the interests of "inclusive language," many
decided they could not trust such a translation.
Now in 2005 Zondervan and the IBS have published another revision of the
NIV called Today's New International Version (TNIV). Has it corrected
the gender-neutral translation policies that were found in the NIVI?
Yes, in one of the 15 passages (Proverbs 29:13). But in the other 14
passages it is disappointing to see that nothing has changed (in 11
passages) or that partial corrections were made that did not really
solve the problem (in three passages). In spite of a handful of helpful
changes, the gender-neutral translation philosophy of the 2005 TNIV is
essentially the same as that of the NIVI that caused the controversy of
1997 in the first place. It is the same committee giving us essentially
the same Bible.
Genesis 1:26-27
Current NIV: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image. . . ." So God
created man in his own image . . . male and female he created them.
TNIV (2005): Then God said, "Let us make human beings in our image. . .
.." So God created human beings in his own image . . . male and female he
created them. [identical to NIVI (1996)]
Change in meaning: The change from singular "man" to plural "human
beings" obscures the unity of the race as "man" (indicated by the
singular Hebrew noun 'adam). The word "man" in English can mean either
"a male human being" or "the human race," and thus it is the best
translation for Hebrew 'adam, which can also refer either to man in
distinction from woman (Genesis 2:22, 25) or to the human race as a
whole (as here). The TNIV thus fails to convey as much of the meaning of
'adam as it could in English today. Why is the male-oriented aspect of
the meaning of the Hebrew word removed?
Genesis 5:2
Current NIV: He created them male and female. . . . And when they were
created, he called them "man."
TNIV (2005): He created them male and female. . . . And when they were
created, he called them "human beings." [identical to NIVI (1996)]
Change in meaning: God's activity of naming is important in the Bible.
Here the TNIV has renamed the human race, refusing to use the
male-oriented name "man." But in the previous four chapters this same
singular Hebrew word 'adam has been used eight times to refer to man in
distinction from woman (as in "The man and his wife were both naked, and
they felt no shame," Genesis 2:25), and also five times as the proper
name "Adam." So Hebrew readers would hear clear male nuances when God
named the human race 'adam in Genesis 5:2, and "man" is the best English
translation. The TNIV incorrectly removes the male-oriented aspect of
the name God gave the human race.
TNIV supporters say the change was necessary because the English
language has changed. But people today still understand that "man" can
mean the human race, as in the Wall Street Journal headline about the
recent tsunami, "Man, Nature, and Disaster" (Dec. 28, 2004, p. A10).
Psalm 1:1
Current NIV: Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the
wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers.
NIVI (1996): Blessed are those who do not walk in the counsel of the
wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers.
TNIV (2005): Blessed are those who do not walk in step with the wicked
or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers.
[identical in gender language to NIVI (1996)]
Change in meaning: Here the word "man" means "a male human being," and
it is the correct translation of the singular Hebrew word 'ish, which
(except in special idioms) means "man" in distinction from woman, and
surely is singular, not plural. The Hebrew text holds up an individual
righteous man as an example that all Israel should imitate. The next
verse says more about this man: "His delight is in the law of the Lord,
and on his law he meditates day and night" (vs. 2). But the TNIV changes
"the man" to "those," removing the concrete example of an individual
man. It changes the Bible's singulars to plurals in hundreds of such
cases, in each case removing one of the primary teaching methods of the
Bible: holding up an individual man as an example for all believers to
imitate.
The result is (1) an incorrect translation of the singular noun 'ish,
(2) a loss of the picture of the moral courage of a solitary righteous
man standing against plural sinners, (3) a shift away from the Bible's
emphasis on the relationship between God and individual persons to a
greater emphasis on groups, (4) a loss of any possibility of seeing this
"blessed man" in the Psalms as a foreshadowing of Christ, the truly
righteous Man, and (5) a loss of historical accuracy, because the
original writer of Psalm 1 did not speak of "those" but of "a man."
The change to plural also produces a comical picture in verse 3: "He is
like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in
season" (NIV) becomes "they are like a tree. . ." (TNIV). All God's
people around the world are like one tree? Another amusing example is a
whole group of sluggards now reaching into one dish: "Sluggards bury
their hands in the dish and are too lazy to bring them back to their
mouths" (Proverbs 26:15).
Psalm 8:4
Current NIV: What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man
that you care for him?
TNIV (2005): What are mere mortals that you are mindful of them, human
beings that you care for them? [identical to NIVI (1996)]
Change in meaning: The singular "man" meaning "the human race" is
changed to plural "mere mortals," wrongly removing the sense of unity of
the human race (the Hebrew is singular). The Hebrew singular ben which
means "son" and the singular 'adam which means "man" are incorrectly
translated with the plural "human beings," removing masculine meaning,
and thus removing the title "son of man," which Jesus often used of
Himself. (The TNIV also incorrectly removes "son of man" when this verse
is quoted in Hebrews 2:6.)
Psalm 34:20
Current NIV: He protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.
TNIV (2005): He protects all their bones, not one of them will be
broken. [identical to NIVI (1996)]
Change in meaning: The third-person masculine singular "his" rightly
represents the third-person masculine singular pronoun suffix in Hebrew,
and the TNIV incorrectly pluralizes this to "their bones." This obscures
the fulfillment of this verse in Christ's crucifixion in John 19:36.
This part of Psalm 34 speaks of God's protection of an individual
righteous man: God protects "his bones." Why does the TNIV refuse to
translate hundreds of third-person masculine singular pronouns in the
original languages as third-person masculine singular pronouns in
English? What is the objection to male-oriented language when it
accurately reflects the original Hebrew or Greek text?
Proverbs 5:21
Current NIV: For a man's ways are in full view of the Lord.
TNIV (2005): For your ways are in full view of the Lord. [identical to
NIVI (1996)]
Change in meaning: The Hebrew male-specific noun 'ish means "a man," as
the NIV correctly translated it. The TNIV incorrectly changes this to
"your," and thus restricts the statement to the "you," which in this
context is the son being warned by his father in the previous verse. The
text no longer affirms God's observation of the ways of every person
(represented by the concrete example of "a man").
These last two verses (Psalm 34:20; Proverbs 5:21) also demonstrate
another serious result of systematically changing singulars to plurals
in hundreds of cases: The TNIV will ultimately lead to a loss of
confidence in tens of thousands of plural pronouns in the Bible. A
preacher cannot rightly use the TNIV to make a point based on the
plurals "they/them/ their/those" or the second-person pronouns
"you/your/yours" because he can no longer have confidence that those
represent accurately the meaning of the original. Maybe the original was
plural ("their"), but then again maybe "their" is a gender-neutral
substitute for a singular ("his"). Maybe the original was second person
("you"), but then again maybe "you" is a gender-neutral substitute for a
third-person singular pronoun ("he") or a singular noun ("a man"). How
can any ordinary English reader know? He can't. So no weight can be put
on those pronouns. "He" in the NIV has become "we" or "you" or "they" in
the TNIV hundreds and perhaps even thousands of times.
How many pronouns are thrown into doubt? The forms of
"we/us/our/ourselves" occur 4,636 times, of "you/your/ yours/yourselves"
21,205 times, and the forms of "they/them/their/ themselves/those"
19,372 times, for a total of 45,213 pronouns. How can we know which of
these 45,213 are trustworthy, and which are the TNIV's gender-neutral
substitutes for the correct translation "he/him/his"? The only way is to
check the Hebrew and Greek text in each case, and who is going to do
that? Can you really study, or memorize, or teach or preach from such a
Bible where you can't trust this many pronouns?
Another measure of the extent of the changes comes from seeing that the
TNIV has 1,826 more instances of second-person pronouns such as
"you/your/yours/yourself" than were in the NIV. Did 1,826 new examples
of second-person verbs and pronouns suddenly appear in the original
Hebrew and Greek texts? No, most of these are gender-neutral substitutes
for the objectionable words "he/him/his," which were translated
correctly in the NIV. And the TNIV has 2,321 more examples of forms of
"they/them/their/those/themselves" than the NIV. Did 2,321 new examples
of third-person plural verbs and pronouns suddenly appear in the
original Hebrew and Greek texts? No, most of these again are
gender-neutral substitutes for "he/ him/his," which were translated
correctly in the NIV. You can't trust the pronouns in the TNIV. This is
a deficiency so great as to render the TNIV unsuitable for widespread
use in the church.
Proverbs 29:3
Current NIV: A man who loves wisdom brings joy to his father, but a
companion of prostitutes squanders his wealth.
NIVI (1996): Those who love wisdom bring joy to their parents, but
companions of prostitutes squander their wealth.
TNIV (2005): A man who loves wisdom brings joy to his father, but a
companion of prostitutes squanders his wealth. [a helpful correction,
restoring the NIV wording]
Change in meaning: None. The TNIV returns to the original NIV in this
verse.
Luke 17:3
Current NIV: If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents,
forgive him.
NIVI (1996): Rebuke a brother or sister who sins, and if they repent,
forgive them.
TNIV (2005): If a brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and
if they repent, forgive them. [changed but no improvement over the NIVI;
the words "against you" are added but they are not there in the Greek
text]
Change in meaning: The words "or sister" are inserted into the Bible but
Jesus did not say them and they have no basis in the Greek text. (The
Bible can say "brother or sister" when it wants to, as in James 2:15.)
The words "against you" are inserted into the Bible but they have no
basis in the Greek text. The words "them" and "they" hinder clear
communication because they will be taken as plural by some people, as
singular by others, and as bad grammar by many. A common reaction will
be some uncertainty as to whether the original Greek was singular or
plural. The TNIV is going through linguistic gymnastics simply to avoid
the offensive word "him," but "him" is the most accurate translation of
the masculine singular Greek pronoun autos.
I agree, of course, that "If your brother sins against you" also applies
to sisters who sin, just as the parable of the Prodigal Son also applies
to prodigal daughters, and just as "You shall not covet your neighbor's
wife" (Exodus 20:17) also applies to not coveting your neighbor's
husband! (And the TNIV did not change those passages.) But people have
easily understood this for centuries: When the Bible uses an example of
an individual man or woman to teach a general principle, the principle
also applies to people of the opposite sex. We do not have to add the
words "or sister" to understand this. We should not add to Jesus' words
things that have no basis in the Greek text.
John 6:44
Current NIV: No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws
him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
TNIV (2005): No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws
them, and I will raise them up at the last day. [identical to NIVI
(1996)]
Change in meaning: There is a loss of clear emphasis on the Father
drawing an individual person. "Them" seems to be plural here, referring
to a group. It is an incorrect translation of the third-person singular
Greek pronoun autos in both places.
John 11:25
Current NIV: Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He
who believes in me will live, even though he dies. . . ."
NIVI (1996): Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life.
Those who believe in me will live, even though they die. . . ."
TNIV (2005): Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life.
Anyone who believes in me will live, even though they die . . . ." [a
partial correction changing plural "those" to singular "anyone," but
still using the incorrect plural "they"]
Change in meaning: I agree with the change from "He who believes in me"
to "Anyone who believes in me," because there is no masculine pronoun in
the Greek text. ("Anyone who" is consistent with the Colorado Springs
Guidelines for this kind of Greek construction, and it retains the
singular meaning.) But the TNIV still adds an element of confusion
because of the plural expression "they die" (with the plural verb "die")
instead of the more accurate NIV rendering, "he dies" (correctly
rendering the third-person singular Greek verb).
John 14:23
Current NIV: If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father
will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
NIVI (1996): Those who love me will obey my teaching. My Father will
love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
TNIV (2005): Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will
love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. [a
partial correction, changing plural "those" to singular "anyone," but
keeping "them" instead of "him"]
Change in meaning: Again the change back to the NIV's "anyone" is
helpful. But the "If" that Jesus said (Greek ean) is omitted, and three
masculine singular pronouns (Greek autos) are incorrectly translated
with "them," removing the amazing emphasis on the Father and Son
dwelling with an individual person. In the TNIV, maybe "them" refers to
the whole group of those who obey. How can we know?
Acts 20:30
Current NIV: Even from your own number men will arise and distort the
truth in order to draw away disciples after them.
TNIV (2005): Even from your own number some will arise and distort the
truth in order to draw away disciples after them. [identical to NIVI
(1996)]
Change in meaning: The TNIV removes the word "men" used to refer to the
elders of the church at Ephesus. The Greek word is not anthropos, which
can mean "man" or "person," but aner, which means "man" in distinction
from woman. The Greek expression for "from your own number" is emphatic,
referring specifically to the elders and not to the Ephesian church. Why
not call elders "men"?
1 Corinthians 14:28
Current NIV: If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet
in the church and speak to himself and God.
NIVI (1996): If there is no interpreter, the speakers should keep quiet
in the church and speak to themselves and God.
TNIV (2005): If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet
in the church; let them speak to themselves and to God. [singular
"speaker" is rightly restored but the incorrect plural "themselves" is
retained]
Change in meaning: In attempting to avoid "himself" (which was the NIV's
correct translation of the masculine singular pronoun eautou), the TNIV
inserts "them" followed by "themselves," which many readers will take as
plurals. The verse will easily be misunderstood to encourage groups of
tongue-speakers to go off together and speak in tongues "to themselves."
But that is not what Paul wrote.
James 1:12
Current NIV: Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when
he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life. . . .
TNIV (2005): Blessed are those who persevere under trial, because when
they have stood the test, they will receive the crown of life . . . .
[identical to NIVI (1996)]
Change in meaning: TNIV removes the example of a single "blessed man"
who perseveres under trial and changes it to a group: "those" and
"they." The focus on God's blessing on an individual believer is
removed. The TNIV pictures a group under trial and suggests that reward
waits until "they" all have stood the test. "Those" is an incorrect
translation of the singular Greek word aner, which means "man," not
"person," and certainly not "those."
Revelation 3:20
Current NIV: I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and
opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
TNIV (2005): I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and
opens the door, I will come in and eat with them, and they with me.
[identical to NIVI (1996)]
Change in meaning: The idea of Christ coming into an individual person's
life is lost; Christ no longer eats with "him" but with "them." Many
readers will understand "them" to refer to the plural group "those whom
I love" in the previous verse, so the TNIV now pictures Christ coming
into a church and eating among a group of people.
Additional verses:
In addition to these 15 verses, the TNIV has other types of unacceptable
translations, which I can mention briefly:
Changing "son" to "child" and "father" to "parent" when the original
meant "son" and "father"NIV Proverbs 13:1: A wise son heeds his father's
instruction, but a mocker does not listen to rebuke.
TNIV Proverbs 13:1: A wise child heeds a parent's instruction, but a
mocker does not respond to rebukes.
Removing "brother" when the original meant "brother" (singular)
NIV Matthew 7:3: "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your
brother's eye. . . ?"
TNIV Matthew 7:3: "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in someone
else's eye. . . ?"
De-emphasizing the manhood of Christ
NIV 1 Corinthians 15:21: For since death came through a man, the
resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
TNIV 1 Corinthian 15:21: For since death came through a human being, the
resurrection of the dead comes also through a human being.
Comment: Here the Greek word is anthropos, which can mean either "man"
or "person," depending on context. But in this context it refers to Adam
and Christ and the meaning "man" is appropriate. What is the objection
to calling them "men"?
NIV Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in
every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high
priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins
of the people.
TNIV Hebrews 2:17: For this reason he had to be made like his brothers
and sisters in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and
faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement
for the sins of the people.
Comment: Did Jesus have to become like his sisters "in every way" in
order to become a "high priest in service to God"? All the Old Testament
priests were men, and surely the high priest was only a man. This text
does not quite proclaim an androgynous Jesus (who was both male and
female), but it surely leaves open a wide door for misunderstanding, and
almost invites misunderstanding. Meditate on that phrase "in every way"
and see if you can trust the TNIV.
Removing whole phrases from the bible
NIV Matthew 7:4: How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck
out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
TNIV Matthew 7:4: How can you say ___________, 'Let me take the speck
out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
NIV Matthew 15:5 . . . if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever
help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
TNIV Matthew 15:5: . . . if anyone declares _______________ that what
____ might have been used _______ to help their father or mother is
'devoted to God,'
Expanding the penalty for adding to the words of Scripture
NIV Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy
of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the
plagues described in this book.
TNIV Revelation 22:18: I warn everyone who hears the words of the
prophecy of this scroll: If any one of you adds anything to them, God
will add to you the plagues described in this scroll.
Comment: The first "you" added by the TNIV is plural, referring to the
whole group of hearers. Therefore the second "you" is also plural, and
if anyone in the group adds to the words of prophecy the penalty is now
expanded to the whole group.
Objections by TNIV defenders
The defenders of the TNIV respond, "But all translations make these
kinds of translation decisions." No, they do not. They do not
systematically remove hundreds of male-specific terms when there is a
male-oriented term in the original, nor do they change hundreds of
singular verses to plural just to avoid using the word "he."
Defenders of the TNIV fail to mention that in the major "essentially
literal" translations (such as the ESV, NASB, HCSB, and NKJV)
translating singulars as plurals is rare, done only in unusual cases
like collective nouns that have a singular form in Greek but require a
plural for the same plural sense in English, or neuter plural subjects
that take a singular verb because of a particular feature of Greek
grammar that does not match what English does. In addition, there are
some difficult Old Testament poetic verses where the Hebrew pronouns
shift frequently in ways difficult for anyone to understand. But these
are unusual exceptions.
To say that "the TNIV is just doing what all translations do" is not
coming clean with the Christian public regarding the extent of the
changes. It is like saying that a student who misspelled 100 words in a
term paper "is just doing what the teacher does" because she misspelled
one difficult word in class five months ago. It is not the same.
Another question is, "Why are you only attacking the TNIV?" First, Vern
Poythress and I systematically critiqued several gender-neutral
translations in our book, The TNIV and the Gender-Neutral Bible
Controversy. Second, the NIV is the most widely used translation in the
English language, so its policies have great influence. Third, other
translations that use much gender-neutral language (such as The Message
or the New Living Translation) have been "dynamic equivalent"
translations that are read more as commentaries and interpretations of
what the Bible says rather than as "word for word" or "essentially
literal" translations. But the NIV is different, because many people use
it as their main Bible for study, teaching, preaching, and memorizing,
and they depend on it much more for accuracy in the very words. I
believe the TNIV is no longer sufficiently trustworthy to be used for
these purposes.
The most frequent reason given for the TNIV is that updates in language
are needed to reach younger readers today, especially those 18-34. But
the words that are systematically removed are not archaic words. What
reader 18-34 cannot understand the words "father," "son," "brother,"
"man," and "he/him/his"? Yet these male-oriented words have been removed
many hundreds of times where they correctly represented the original
Hebrew or Greek in the current NIV. The best term to describe this Bible
is not "gender-accurate" but "gender-neutral."
I agree with removing male-oriented words when there is no male-oriented
meaning in the original Greek or Hebrew text. But when there is a male
meaning, we dare not under-translate and conceal that meaning just
because that emphasis is unpopular today.
If we believe that "all Scripture is God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and
that "every word of God is flawless" (Proverbs 30:5), then we must
believe that every word of Scripture as originally written is the very
word God intended to be written. To put it another way, our doctrine of
the "verbal inspiration" of Scripture is that the very words of
Scripture‹not just the general ideas‹are "God-breathed" and are
therefore the very words of God. Jesus and the New Testament authors
sometimes base arguments on a single word of Old Testament Scripture
(Matthew 4:10; John 10:34; Galatians 3:10, 16; Hebrews 3:13; 4:7) and
sometimes a single letter of a word (Matthew 22:44). Anyone who does
expository preaching knows how often good preaching makes use of the
sense of individual words. These words are not ours to tamper with as we
wish; they are the words of God.
If the TNIV should gain wide acceptance, the precedent will be
established for other Bible translations to mute unpopular nuances and
details of meaning for the sake of "political correctness." The loss of
many other doctrines unpopular in the culture will soon follow. And at
every case Bible readers will never know if what they are reading is
really the Word of God or the translators' ideas of something that would
be a little less offensive than what God actually said.
In many hundreds of places, then, the new words in the TNIV do not
accurately reflect the meaning of the words God originally caused to be
written, and thus they are not the words of God. They are human words
that men have substituted for the words of God, and they have no place
in the Bible. "You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor
take from it" (Deuteronomy 4:2).
‹Wayne Grudem is research professor of Bible and Theology at Phoenix
Seminary in Scottsdale, Ariz. He is a past president of the Evangelical
Theological Society. He holds his B.A. from Harvard, M.Div. from
Westminster Seminary, and Ph.D. in New Testament from Cambridge
University. €
Copyright 2005 WORLD Magazine
February 26, 2005, Vol. 20, No. 8
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2005 WORLD Magazine - Weekly News | Christian Views
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--
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
Heb. 4:12-For the word of God is living and
active. Sharper than any double-edged sword,
it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints
and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes
of the heart.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: TNIV debunked |
12 Jul 2005 08:43:01 AM |
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Bible John wrote:
Friends thought you could use this.
Current NIV: Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He
who believes in me will live, even though he dies. . . ."
NIVI (1996): Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life.
Those who believe in me will live, even though they die. . . ."
TNIV (2005): Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life.
Anyone who believes in me will live, even though they die . . . ." [a
partial correction changing plural "those" to singular "anyone," but
still using the incorrect plural "they"]
But the "If" that Jesus said (Greek ean) is omitted, and three
masculine singular pronouns (Greek autos) are incorrectly translated
with "them," removing the amazing emphasis on the Father and Son
dwelling with an individual person. In the TNIV, maybe "them" refers to
the whole group of those who obey. How can we know?
Why do you imagine you know what Jesus said? It's not really _Jesus'_
words you're repeating, is it? You're really quoting words written
decades later by someone:
-- who doesn't give his name,
-- who never claims to have met Jesus and
-- who never claims to have been a witness to the events.
Can I ask, besides Jesus', are there other "quotations" recorded
decades later by anonymous writers who never claim to have met the
speaker and who never claim to have been within ten miles of the actual
events, are there other "quotations" like that that you believe are
accurate? Can you list a few please?
Dirk Hartog
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I don't care what you believe.
I care what the evidence is.
I care about the reasoning you use to justify your beliefs.
It is not morally acceptable to say ... our story is truth but yours is
myth; ours is history but yours is a lie. It is even less morally
acceptable to ... manufactur[e] defensive or protective strategies that
apply only to one's own story.
[John Crossan, The Birth of Christianity, 1998, pg 28 - 29]
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