Religions > Bible > To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*.
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Craig Chilton" |
| Date: |
14 Nov 2005 08:18:32 AM |
| Object: |
To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
IF there'd been another major disaster or superlative
occurrence within 2 weeks after Hurricane Wilma, then the
Biblically-prophesied "birth pangs" scenario might still be
regarded as a possibility... since that calls for steadily-
increasing frequency *and* intensity of such events.
Well -- it's been three weeks now, and not DIDDLY of
consequence has happened, worldwide, during that time.
And now we're a week overdue in the "frequency" depart-
ment.
It looks like we'll have either a Tropical Storm or Hurricane
Gamma... which would have qualified as being another
superlative **within** a birth pangs scenario -- except that
it came along a week too late. The "frequency" criterion
for that scenario was blown when Nov. 6th came and went
without any new notoriety. So...
Peace pretty much reigns, and even the action in Jordan
was only the typical MINI-terrorism. Gasoline is down to
$1.92/gallon, and falling... and all is *comparatively* well
with our never-perfect world. IOW -- situation normal again.
Since Biblical prophecy ALWAYS ultimately comes to
pass, the "birth pangs" scenario WILL occur -- someday.
Maybe soon... or maybe 80 years from now. Or anywhere
in between.
You see, Jesus told us that once ALL of His prophesied
signs were in play, that generation would not pass from the
earth before He returned. There's usually someone alive in
the world, at any given time, who's lived to be around 120 --
making him/her the last person of that generation to be
alive.
Therefore, if a generation began in 1900, then it wouldn't
end until around 2020 -- when the last member of it died.
So if the generation to which Jesus referred started in
1948, with the re-birth of Israel, then it probably will die out
around 2068... and Jesus could return *anytime* between
now and then. BUT -- if the countdown (per God's clock)
to His return got started with the 6-day War, in 1967 -- when
Israel captured all of Jerusalem...then THAT generation
could last until 2087 or so. Possibly longer, if longevity-
extension efforts work out. We seem to be on the verge of
some breakthroughs there. In *that* event, all bets would
REALLY be off!
In short -- don't hold your breath.
It's prudent to always be as ready as we can be, for it.
But given the factors above, the Rapture could still be
many, MANY decades away as yet.
And maybe the pseudo-birth-pangs period we just exper-
ienced was either coincidental... or a reminder by God that
*someday* -- **SOMEday** -- He'd be visiting the real deal
upon us.
Well, that's okay with me. I still have a LOT of tasks to
work on, here on earth -- so I *welcome* all the extra time He
chooses to give us.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
14 Nov 2005 09:09:07 AM |
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"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:a53hn1h0lt7d337a2glcfbmvjel760g64p@4ax.com...
IF there'd been another major disaster or superlative
occurrence within 2 weeks after Hurricane Wilma, then the
Biblically-prophesied "birth pangs" scenario might still be
regarded as a possibility... since that calls for steadily-
increasing frequency *and* intensity of such events.
Which has been happening. Problem is, a lot of people who misunderstand
prophecy think that these events are all supposed to happen over night.
Well -- it's been three weeks now, and not DIDDLY of
consequence has happened, worldwide, during that time.
And now we're a week overdue in the "frequency" depart-
ment.
Read above
It looks like we'll have either a Tropical Storm or Hurricane
Gamma... which would have qualified as being another
superlative **within** a birth pangs scenario -- except that
it came along a week too late. The "frequency" criterion
for that scenario was blown when Nov. 6th came and went
without any new notoriety. So...
Peace pretty much reigns, and even the action in Jordan
was only the typical MINI-terrorism. Gasoline is down to
$1.92/gallon, and falling... and all is *comparatively* well
with our never-perfect world. IOW -- situation normal again.
Since Biblical prophecy ALWAYS ultimately comes to
pass, the "birth pangs" scenario WILL occur -- someday.
Maybe soon... or maybe 80 years from now. Or anywhere
in between.
You see, Jesus told us that once ALL of His prophesied
signs were in play, that generation would not pass from the
earth before He returned. There's usually someone alive in
the world, at any given time, who's lived to be around 120 --
making him/her the last person of that generation to be
alive.
Therefore, if a generation began in 1900, then it wouldn't
end until around 2020 -- when the last member of it died.
So if the generation to which Jesus referred started in
1948, with the re-birth of Israel, then it probably will die out
around 2068... and Jesus could return *anytime* between
now and then. BUT -- if the countdown (per God's clock)
to His return got started with the 6-day War, in 1967 -- when
Israel captured all of Jerusalem...then THAT generation
could last until 2087 or so. Possibly longer, if longevity-
extension efforts work out. We seem to be on the verge of
some breakthroughs there. In *that* event, all bets would
REALLY be off!
In short -- don't hold your breath.
It's prudent to always be as ready as we can be, for it.
I agree. The bible says specifically that we are not to know the day nor
the hour, but to be aware of the signs and to be ready. When it happens, it
happens and if the person is not ready...they will not get a 2nd chance.
But given the factors above, the Rapture could still be
many, MANY decades away as yet.
And maybe the pseudo-birth-pangs period we just exper-
ienced was either coincidental... or a reminder by God that
*someday* -- **SOMEday** -- He'd be visiting the real deal
upon us.
Well, that's okay with me. I still have a LOT of tasks to
work on, here on earth -- so I *welcome* all the extra time He
chooses to give us.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
14 Nov 2005 04:31:00 PM |
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:09:07 -0500,
Robert Heishman ("osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
IF there'd been another major disaster or superlative
occurrence within 2 weeks after Hurricane Wilma, then the
Biblically-prophesied "birth pangs" scenario might still be
regarded as a possibility... since that calls for steadily-
increasing frequency *and* intensity of such events.
Which has been happening. Problem is, a lot of people
who misunderstand prophecy think that these events are
all supposed to happen over night.
Indeed. However, once the REAL "birth pangs" sequence
begins, then a relatively finite -- and somewhat predicable -- time
frame leading up to the climax can be envisioned. IOW -- suppose
that this *had* been the real deal, and not just a foreshadowing of
it (or possibly even a huge coincidence). That such a scenario
may have been in progress could have been perceived only from
about December 26, 2004, on. The date of the Tsunami. When
the pattern finally was broken on around November 6th, the inter-
val between events (analogous to contractions) was down to
only around 3 weeks. And in a real birth pangs sequence,
contractions steadily get closer and closer together. That pattern
was broken when nothing happened in three weeks or less after
Hurricane Wilma.
So the real deal would have been longer than "overnight" -- but
may well have been encompassed by a span of only around 12-18
months.
Well -- it's been three weeks now, and not DIDDLY of
consequence has happened, worldwide, during that time.
And now we're a week overdue in the "frequency" depart-
ment.
It looks like we'll have either a Tropical Storm or Hurricane
Gamma... which would have qualified as being another
superlative **within** a birth pangs scenario -- except that
it came along a week too late. The "frequency" criterion
for that scenario was blown when Nov. 6th came and went
without any new notoriety. So...
Peace pretty much reigns, and even the action in Jordan
was only the typical MINI-terrorism. Gasoline is down to
$1.92/gallon, and falling... and all is *comparatively* well
with our never-perfect world. IOW -- situation normal again.
Since Biblical prophecy ALWAYS ultimately comes to
pass, the "birth pangs" scenario WILL occur -- someday.
Maybe soon... or maybe 80 years from now. Or anywhere
in between.
You see, Jesus told us that once ALL of His prophesied
signs were in play, that generation would not pass from the
earth before He returned. There's usually someone alive in
the world, at any given time, who's lived to be around 120 --
making him/her the last person of that generation to be
alive.
Therefore, if a generation began in 1900, then it wouldn't
end until around 2020 -- when the last member of it died.
So if the generation to which Jesus referred started in
1948, with the re-birth of Israel, then it probably will die out
around 2068... and Jesus could return *anytime* between
now and then. BUT -- if the countdown (per God's clock)
to His return got started with the 6-day War, in 1967 -- when
Israel captured all of Jerusalem...then THAT generation
could last until 2087 or so. Possibly longer, if longevity-
extension efforts work out. We seem to be on the verge of
some breakthroughs there. In *that* event, all bets would
REALLY be off!
In short -- don't hold your breath.
It's prudent to always be as ready as we can be, for it.
I agree. The Bible says specifically that we are not to know
the day nor the hour, but to be aware of the signs and to be ready.
When it happens, it happens and if the person is not ready... they
will not get a 2nd chance.
There are two interesting schools of thought on that:
1. If a person doesn't accept Christ before the Rapture,
and thus gets left behind, that's his tough luck, and
he's doomed. OR...
2. If a person gets left behind at the time of the Rapture,
then the scenario in the "Left Behind" series of books
comes into play. He can still accept Christ and make
it to heaven, but is likely to do it the VERY hard way...
by becoming a Tribulation Saint at the moment of behead-
ing by the Anti-Christ's government... or by managing to
accept Christ and be one of the minority who makes it
through all 7 years of the Tribulation Period, battered and
maimed, but still alive when Jesus sets foot atop the
Mount of Olives.
After that, it gets MORE complicated, but the best simplifi-
cation would be this:
-- The person has the CHANCE to accept Christ, but
chooses not to. The Rapture happens. He's left behind.
And then falls prey to a great *delusion* that is induced
by GOD. And thus is susceptible to accepting the Mark
during the Tribulation period, thus dooming himself.
-- Many people past the age of accountability don't
accept Christ before the Rapture because they've
never learned about Him. (As for example, many
Muslims, Shintos, and Hindus don't *within* their
cultures, due to a very small or nonexistent presence
of evangelizing [not "evangelical"... *evangelIZING*]
Christians in their vicinity.) And thus they learn about
him only AFTER the Rapture... and then still at least
are able to be martyred as Tribulation Saints.
But given the factors above, the Rapture could still be
many, MANY decades away as yet.
And maybe the pseudo-birth-pangs period we just exper-
ienced was either coincidental... or a reminder by God that
*someday* -- **SOMEday** -- He'd be visiting the real deal
upon us.
Well, that's okay with me. I still have a LOT of tasks to
work on, here on earth -- so I *welcome* all the extra time
He chooses to give us.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
.
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| User: "Reasoned Insanity" |
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| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
16 Nov 2005 05:11:14 AM |
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-- Many people past the age of accountability
What do you think this so called age of accountability is? Be sure to back
it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no evidence of it existing.
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
16 Nov 2005 08:16:08 AM |
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 05:11:14 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
-- Many people past the age of accountability
What do you think this so called age of accountability is? Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no evidence
of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be a
determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me, based
on the general themes of the Bible.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
.
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| User: "Reasoned Insanity" |
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| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
16 Nov 2005 07:24:41 PM |
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"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:agbmn19vg8m1g7lftf2q8lc880ir4vij62@4ax.com...
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 05:11:14 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
-- Many people past the age of accountability
What do you think this so called age of accountability is? Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no evidence
of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be a
determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me, based
on the general themes of the Bible.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a free pass for
anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say that the only way to
salvation is to be born again. I see nothing of any mention of being born
again or being under the age of accountability. The bible is consistant in
teaching that the only way of salvation is to be born again because we are
all born in sin. John 3:36 This is consistant with the teaching throughout
the bible regarding there being only one way to salvation.
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
17 Nov 2005 12:18:40 AM |
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:24:41 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is? Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no evidence
of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be a
determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me, based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say that
the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see nothing of any
mention of being born again or being under the age of accountability.
The Bible is consistant in teaching that the only way of salvation is to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there being only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a "child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where the Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength
of only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard the cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
.
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| User: "Reasoned Insanity" |
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| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
17 Nov 2005 05:50:57 PM |
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|
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:v56on15aac18sbjdhai9uv7qdn04na1apf@4ax.com...
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:24:41 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is? Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no evidence
of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be a
determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me, based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say that
the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see nothing of any
mention of being born again or being under the age of accountability.
The Bible is consistant in teaching that the only way of salvation is to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there being only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a "child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where the Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength
of only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard the cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
Interesting verses, the numbers that they all seem to stipulate though
appear to be 12 rather than 20 though.. I shall have to research further
into this sometime. I do however think that saying that there is any other
way to heaven than Christ is contradictory of the gospel message, thus
causing the bible to contradict itself; and I don't think it does that.
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
17 Nov 2005 09:12:21 PM |
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|
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:57 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is? Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no evidence
of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be a
determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me, based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say that
the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see nothing of any
mention of being born again or being under the age of accountability.
The Bible is consistant in teaching that the only way of salvation is to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there being only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a "child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where the Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength
of only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard the cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
Interesting verses, the numbers that they all seem to stipulate though
appear to be 12 rather than 20 though.. I shall have to research further
into this sometime. I do however think that saying that there is any other
way to heaven than Christ is contradictory of the gospel message, thus
causing the bible to contradict itself; and I don't think it does that.
The bible clearly *does* contain some very GLARING contradictions, as
can easily be seen in that site to which Bill Baker referred us ---
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
So this would simply be one more case of that.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
.
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| User: "Reasoned Insanity" |
|
| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
18 Nov 2005 05:53:19 AM |
|
|
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:lbfqn1p4kv10k8ekvhkgjlakn4kqk4406m@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:57 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is? Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no evidence
of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be a
determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me, based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say that
the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see nothing of any
mention of being born again or being under the age of accountability.
The Bible is consistant in teaching that the only way of salvation is
to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there being only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a "child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where the
Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength
of only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard the
cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
Interesting verses, the numbers that they all seem to stipulate
though
appear to be 12 rather than 20 though.. I shall have to research further
into this sometime. I do however think that saying that there is any
other
way to heaven than Christ is contradictory of the gospel message, thus
causing the bible to contradict itself; and I don't think it does that.
The bible clearly *does* contain some very GLARING contradictions, as
can easily be seen in that site to which Bill Baker referred us ---
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
So this would simply be one more case of that.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
A simple search will find just as many sites out there refuting those sites
that bring up contradictions as there are that try to "expose" them. Take
the very first listing on that site. Adam did die spiritually on the same
day he ate the fruit. Though not a physical death, that's the reason
everyone is born spiritually dead in sin. I'm not impressed yet.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Baker" |
|
| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
18 Nov 2005 07:35:14 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:53:19 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<Ygjff.22160$sg5.6547@dukeread12>...
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:lbfqn1p4kv10k8ekvhkgjlakn4kqk4406m@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:57 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is? Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no evidence
of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be a
determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me, based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say that
the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see nothing of any
mention of being born again or being under the age of accountability.
The Bible is consistant in teaching that the only way of salvation is
to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there being only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a "child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where the
Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength
of only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard the
cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
Interesting verses, the numbers that they all seem to stipulate
though
appear to be 12 rather than 20 though.. I shall have to research further
into this sometime. I do however think that saying that there is any
other
way to heaven than Christ is contradictory of the gospel message, thus
causing the bible to contradict itself; and I don't think it does that.
The bible clearly *does* contain some very GLARING contradictions, as
can easily be seen in that site to which Bill Baker referred us ---
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
So this would simply be one more case of that.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
A simple search will find just as many sites out there refuting those sites
that bring up contradictions as there are that try to "expose" them. Take
the very first listing on that site. Adam did die spiritually on the same
day he ate the fruit. Though not a physical death, that's the reason
everyone is born spiritually dead in sin. I'm not impressed yet.
Your pathetic attempts at apologetics amuses me to no end. Can you point
out the exact verse where God said that Adam would die "spiritually"? And
by the way, if you can't find such a verse, you do know how your god feels
about people adding to the Bible, don't you?
--
Lurlean Lie #6:
I am just posting stuff he claimed himself.
news:7908c278.0310191750.679ca7da@posting.google.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Reasoned Insanity" |
|
| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
18 Nov 2005 04:00:34 PM |
|
|
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.18.13.35.07.269416@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:53:19 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<Ygjff.22160$sg5.6547@dukeread12>...
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:lbfqn1p4kv10k8ekvhkgjlakn4kqk4406m@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:57 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is? Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no evidence
of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be a
determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me, based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a
free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say that
the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see nothing of any
mention of being born again or being under the age of accountability.
The Bible is consistant in teaching that the only way of salvation is
to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is
consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there being
only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a "child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where the
Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength
of only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard the
cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
Interesting verses, the numbers that they all seem to stipulate
though
appear to be 12 rather than 20 though.. I shall have to research
further
into this sometime. I do however think that saying that there is any
other
way to heaven than Christ is contradictory of the gospel message, thus
causing the bible to contradict itself; and I don't think it does that.
The bible clearly *does* contain some very GLARING contradictions, as
can easily be seen in that site to which Bill Baker referred us ---
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
So this would simply be one more case of that.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
A simple search will find just as many sites out there refuting those
sites
that bring up contradictions as there are that try to "expose" them.
Take
the very first listing on that site. Adam did die spiritually on the same
day he ate the fruit. Though not a physical death, that's the reason
everyone is born spiritually dead in sin. I'm not impressed yet.
Your pathetic attempts at apologetics amuses me to no end. Can you point
out the exact verse where God said that Adam would die "spiritually"? And
by the way, if you can't find such a verse, you do know how your god feels
about people adding to the Bible, don't you?
Try reading Romans 5:12-21. I don't really expect someone such as yourself
without any discernment to get it, but you can at least try. I challenge you
to find where God says that Adam would die "physically". Your pathetic
attempts to discredit the word of God are what is really amusing here.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Baker" |
|
| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
18 Nov 2005 07:54:37 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:00:34 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<i9sff.22180$sg5.17275@dukeread12>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.18.13.35.07.269416@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:53:19 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<Ygjff.22160$sg5.6547@dukeread12>...
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:lbfqn1p4kv10k8ekvhkgjlakn4kqk4406m@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:57 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is?
Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no
evidence of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be
a determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental
retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me,
based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a
free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say
that the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see nothing
of any mention of being born again or being under the age of
accountability. The Bible is consistant in teaching that the only
way of salvation is to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is
consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there being
only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a "child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where the
Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength of
only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard the
cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
Interesting verses, the numbers that they all seem to stipulate
though
appear to be 12 rather than 20 though.. I shall have to research
further
into this sometime. I do however think that saying that there is any
other
way to heaven than Christ is contradictory of the gospel message,
thus causing the bible to contradict itself; and I don't think it
does that.
The bible clearly *does* contain some very GLARING contradictions,
as
can easily be seen in that site to which Bill Baker referred us ---
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
So this would simply be one more case of that.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
A simple search will find just as many sites out there refuting those
sites
that bring up contradictions as there are that try to "expose" them.
Take
the very first listing on that site. Adam did die spiritually on the
same day he ate the fruit. Though not a physical death, that's the
reason everyone is born spiritually dead in sin. I'm not impressed
yet.
Your pathetic attempts at apologetics amuses me to no end. Can you
point out the exact verse where God said that Adam would die
"spiritually"? And by the way, if you can't find such a verse, you do
know how your god feels about people adding to the Bible, don't you?
Try reading Romans 5:12-21.
Nope, that doesn't mention dying spiritually, either.
I don't really expect someone such as yourself without any discernment
to get it, but you can at least try.
No, the thing is that I *do* get it. When you're not concerned with a
ridiculous notion like trying to prove the Bible is inerrant, you can
actually see the contradictions as they really are instead of trying to
twist verses to contain meanings that aren't there.
I challenge you to find where God says that Adam would die "physically".
Your pathetic attempts to discredit the word of God are what is really
amusing here.
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Your denial of what is plainly said here is pathetic. What is equally
pathetic is your assumption that contradictions discredit the truths that
are in the Bible. Truths such as these:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html
--
Funny Lurlean quote #37:
"In our church we can travel thru space and time during our fire baptisms and
spirit journey's." --Lurlean gives new meaning to the phrase "spaced out."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Reasoned Insanity" |
|
| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
18 Nov 2005 08:10:51 PM |
|
|
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.19.01.54.28.775648@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:00:34 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<i9sff.22180$sg5.17275@dukeread12>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.18.13.35.07.269416@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:53:19 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<Ygjff.22160$sg5.6547@dukeread12>...
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:lbfqn1p4kv10k8ekvhkgjlakn4kqk4406m@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:57 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is?
Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no
evidence of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be
a determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental
retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me,
based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a
free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say
that the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see nothing
of any mention of being born again or being under the age of
accountability. The Bible is consistant in teaching that the only
way of salvation is to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is
consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there being
only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a "child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where the
Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength of
only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard the
cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
Interesting verses, the numbers that they all seem to stipulate
though
appear to be 12 rather than 20 though.. I shall have to research
further
into this sometime. I do however think that saying that there is any
other
way to heaven than Christ is contradictory of the gospel message,
thus causing the bible to contradict itself; and I don't think it
does that.
The bible clearly *does* contain some very GLARING contradictions,
as
can easily be seen in that site to which Bill Baker referred us ---
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
So this would simply be one more case of that.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
A simple search will find just as many sites out there refuting those
sites
that bring up contradictions as there are that try to "expose" them.
Take
the very first listing on that site. Adam did die spiritually on the
same day he ate the fruit. Though not a physical death, that's the
reason everyone is born spiritually dead in sin. I'm not impressed
yet.
Your pathetic attempts at apologetics amuses me to no end. Can you
point out the exact verse where God said that Adam would die
"spiritually"? And by the way, if you can't find such a verse, you do
know how your god feels about people adding to the Bible, don't you?
Try reading Romans 5:12-21.
Nope, that doesn't mention dying spiritually, either.
I don't really expect someone such as yourself without any discernment
to get it, but you can at least try.
No, the thing is that I *do* get it. When you're not concerned with a
ridiculous notion like trying to prove the Bible is inerrant, you can
actually see the contradictions as they really are instead of trying to
twist verses to contain meanings that aren't there.
I challenge you to find where God says that Adam would die "physically".
Your pathetic attempts to discredit the word of God are what is really
amusing here.
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Your denial of what is plainly said here is pathetic. What is equally
pathetic is your assumption that contradictions discredit the truths that
are in the Bible. Truths such as these:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html
Such as what what? It didn't specify there that the death was a physical
death. You lose again. Thank you, please play agian.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Baker" |
|
| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
18 Nov 2005 08:49:45 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:10:51 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<eQvff.22200$sg5.18634@dukeread12>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.19.01.54.28.775648@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:00:34 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<i9sff.22180$sg5.17275@dukeread12>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.18.13.35.07.269416@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:53:19 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<Ygjff.22160$sg5.6547@dukeread12>...
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:lbfqn1p4kv10k8ekvhkgjlakn4kqk4406m@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:57 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is?
Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no
evidence of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be
a determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental
retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me,
based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a
free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say
that the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see nothing
of any mention of being born again or being under the age of
accountability. The Bible is consistant in teaching that the only
way of salvation is to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is
consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there being
only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a "child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where the
Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength of
only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard the
cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
Interesting verses, the numbers that they all seem to stipulate
though
appear to be 12 rather than 20 though.. I shall have to research
further
into this sometime. I do however think that saying that there is any
other
way to heaven than Christ is contradictory of the gospel message,
thus causing the bible to contradict itself; and I don't think it
does that.
The bible clearly *does* contain some very GLARING contradictions,
as
can easily be seen in that site to which Bill Baker referred us ---
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
So this would simply be one more case of that.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
A simple search will find just as many sites out there refuting those
sites
that bring up contradictions as there are that try to "expose" them.
Take
the very first listing on that site. Adam did die spiritually on the
same day he ate the fruit. Though not a physical death, that's the
reason everyone is born spiritually dead in sin. I'm not impressed
yet.
Your pathetic attempts at apologetics amuses me to no end. Can you
point out the exact verse where God said that Adam would die
"spiritually"? And by the way, if you can't find such a verse, you do
know how your god feels about people adding to the Bible, don't you?
Try reading Romans 5:12-21.
Nope, that doesn't mention dying spiritually, either.
I don't really expect someone such as yourself without any discernment
to get it, but you can at least try.
No, the thing is that I *do* get it. When you're not concerned with a
ridiculous notion like trying to prove the Bible is inerrant, you can
actually see the contradictions as they really are instead of trying to
twist verses to contain meanings that aren't there.
I challenge you to find where God says that Adam would die "physically".
Your pathetic attempts to discredit the word of God are what is really
amusing here.
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Your denial of what is plainly said here is pathetic. What is equally
pathetic is your assumption that contradictions discredit the truths that
are in the Bible. Truths such as these:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html
Such as what what?
So you deny that there are truths in the Bible?
It didn't specify there that the death was a physical death. You lose
again. Thank you, please play agian.
Nor did it specify that it was a spiritual death. You lose again.
--
Lurlean Lie #4:
When [curtsybear] has a problem he turns to either "Loving Someone Gay" or "The
Satanic Bible".
news:7908c278.0310172226.6783138@posting.google.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Reasoned Insanity" |
|
| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
19 Nov 2005 08:37:50 AM |
|
|
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.19.02.49.42.684898@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:10:51 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<eQvff.22200$sg5.18634@dukeread12>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.19.01.54.28.775648@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:00:34 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<i9sff.22180$sg5.17275@dukeread12>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.18.13.35.07.269416@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:53:19 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<Ygjff.22160$sg5.6547@dukeread12>...
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:lbfqn1p4kv10k8ekvhkgjlakn4kqk4406m@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:57 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is?
Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no
evidence of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do
with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be
a determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental
retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached
regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me,
based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a
free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say
that the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see nothing
of any mention of being born again or being under the age of
accountability. The Bible is consistant in teaching that the only
way of salvation is to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is
consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there being
only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a
"child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where
the
Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength
of
only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more
people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard the
cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
Interesting verses, the numbers that they all seem to stipulate
though
appear to be 12 rather than 20 though.. I shall have to research
further
into this sometime. I do however think that saying that there is
any
other
way to heaven than Christ is contradictory of the gospel message,
thus causing the bible to contradict itself; and I don't think it
does that.
The bible clearly *does* contain some very GLARING
contradictions,
as
can easily be seen in that site to which Bill Baker referred us ---
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
So this would simply be one more case of that.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
A simple search will find just as many sites out there refuting those
sites
that bring up contradictions as there are that try to "expose" them.
Take
the very first listing on that site. Adam did die spiritually on the
same day he ate the fruit. Though not a physical death, that's the
reason everyone is born spiritually dead in sin. I'm not impressed
yet.
Your pathetic attempts at apologetics amuses me to no end. Can you
point out the exact verse where God said that Adam would die
"spiritually"? And by the way, if you can't find such a verse, you do
know how your god feels about people adding to the Bible, don't you?
Try reading Romans 5:12-21.
Nope, that doesn't mention dying spiritually, either.
I don't really expect someone such as yourself without any discernment
to get it, but you can at least try.
No, the thing is that I *do* get it. When you're not concerned with a
ridiculous notion like trying to prove the Bible is inerrant, you can
actually see the contradictions as they really are instead of trying to
twist verses to contain meanings that aren't there.
I challenge you to find where God says that Adam would die
"physically".
Your pathetic attempts to discredit the word of God are what is really
amusing here.
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat
of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Your denial of what is plainly said here is pathetic. What is equally
pathetic is your assumption that contradictions discredit the truths
that
are in the Bible. Truths such as these:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html
Such as what what?
So you deny that there are truths in the Bible?
Now don't start putting words into my mouth. I denied that there are
contradictions in the bible. I didn't realize I was talking to someone with
such a low comprehension level.
It didn't specify there that the death was a physical death. You lose
again. Thank you, please play agian.
Nor did it specify that it was a spiritual death. You lose again.
You must have a broken score counter being that I have yet to lose to you,
let alone to "lose again". The bible says throughout that he is born
spiritually dead because of Adams sin. You'd be better off fighting a
different war becuase the bible has been up against people like you for
almost 2000 years and still has stood the test of time. You won't win. If
you insist on making a fool of yourself though, be my guest.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Reasoned Insanity" |
|
| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
19 Nov 2005 10:06:40 AM |
|
|
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9MGff.22237$sg5.16215@dukeread12...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.19.02.49.42.684898@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:10:51 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<eQvff.22200$sg5.18634@dukeread12>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.19.01.54.28.775648@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:00:34 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<i9sff.22180$sg5.17275@dukeread12>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.18.13.35.07.269416@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:53:19 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<Ygjff.22160$sg5.6547@dukeread12>...
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:lbfqn1p4kv10k8ekvhkgjlakn4kqk4406m@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:57 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is?
Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no
evidence of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do
with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them
down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which
ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to
be
a determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental
retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached
regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me,
based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting
a
free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say
that the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see
nothing
of any mention of being born again or being under the age of
accountability. The Bible is consistant in teaching that the
only
way of salvation is to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is
consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there
being
only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between
good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a
"child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific
numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where
the
Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength
of
only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more
people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard
the
cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
Interesting verses, the numbers that they all seem to
stipulate
though
appear to be 12 rather than 20 though.. I shall have to research
further
into this sometime. I do however think that saying that there is
any
other
way to heaven than Christ is contradictory of the gospel message,
thus causing the bible to contradict itself; and I don't think it
does that.
The bible clearly *does* contain some very GLARING
contradictions,
as
can easily be seen in that site to which Bill Baker referred us ---
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
So this would simply be one more case of that.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
A simple search will find just as many sites out there refuting
those
sites
that bring up contradictions as there are that try to "expose" them.
Take
the very first listing on that site. Adam did die spiritually on the
same day he ate the fruit. Though not a physical death, that's the
reason everyone is born spiritually dead in sin. I'm not impressed
yet.
Your pathetic attempts at apologetics amuses me to no end. Can you
point out the exact verse where God said that Adam would die
"spiritually"? And by the way, if you can't find such a verse, you
do
know how your god feels about people adding to the Bible, don't you?
Try reading Romans 5:12-21.
Nope, that doesn't mention dying spiritually, either.
I don't really expect someone such as yourself without any discernment
to get it, but you can at least try.
No, the thing is that I *do* get it. When you're not concerned with a
ridiculous notion like trying to prove the Bible is inerrant, you can
actually see the contradictions as they really are instead of trying to
twist verses to contain meanings that aren't there.
I challenge you to find where God says that Adam would die
"physically".
Your pathetic attempts to discredit the word of God are what is really
amusing here.
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat
of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Your denial of what is plainly said here is pathetic. What is equally
pathetic is your assumption that contradictions discredit the truths
that
are in the Bible. Truths such as these:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html
Such as what what?
So you deny that there are truths in the Bible?
Now don't start putting words into my mouth. I denied that there are
contradictions in the bible. I didn't realize I was talking to someone
with such a low comprehension level.
It didn't specify there that the death was a physical death. You lose
again. Thank you, please play agian.
Nor did it specify that it was a spiritual death. You lose again.
You must have a broken score counter being that I have yet to lose to you,
let alone to "lose again". The bible says throughout that he is born
spiritually dead because of Adams sin. You'd be better off fighting a
different war becuase the bible has been up against people like you for
almost 2000 years and still has stood the test of time. You won't win. If
you insist on making a fool of yourself though, be my guest.
Edit: "that he is born " should have read "man is is born"...
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Baker" |
|
| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma" didn't form a week *earlier*. |
19 Nov 2005 11:24:45 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:37:50 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<9MGff.22237$sg5.16215@dukeread12>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.19.02.49.42.684898@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:10:51 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<eQvff.22200$sg5.18634@dukeread12>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.19.01.54.28.775648@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:00:34 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<i9sff.22180$sg5.17275@dukeread12>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.18.13.35.07.269416@postini.spamcon.org...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:53:19 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<Ygjff.22160$sg5.6547@dukeread12>...
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:lbfqn1p4kv10k8ekvhkgjlakn4kqk4406m@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:57 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is?
Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no
evidence of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do
with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be
a determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental
retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached
regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me,
based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding children getting a
free
pass for anything. There are verses such as John 3:1-7 that say
that the only way to salvation is to be born again. I see nothing
of any mention of being born again or being under the age of
accountability. The Bible is consistant in teaching that the only
way of salvation is to
be born again because we are all born in sin. John 3:36 This is
consis-
tant with the teaching throughout the Bible regarding there being
only
one way to salvation.
From: http://www.biblebell.org/accountability.html
The Age of Accountability as Defined by God
* Preceding paragraphs have shown that God's Bible says
children are not fully capable of distinguishing between good
and evil (Deut. 1.39, Isaiah 7.16).
* Numbers 14.29 and Deuteronomy 1.39 establish the precedent
that God will NOT hold children responsible when He brings
judgment for sin.
* What is a "child?" By inference from Numbers 14.29, a
"child"
is a person who is aged 19 or younger.
* CONCLUSION: Only those persons age 20 and older are held
accountable for sin.
My own comment: God *does* often stipulate specific numbers
as criteria for handling circumstances. Such as the case where
the
Bible
commands that no one can be convicted for murder on the strength
of
only *one* witness's testimony. There must be *two* or more
people
attesting to the crime. In that context, if He were to regard the
cutoff
for accountability to be age 20, it would not be so surprising.
Interesting verses, the numbers that they all seem to stipulate
though
appear to be 12 rather than 20 though.. I shall have to research
further
into this sometime. I do however think that saying that there is
any
other
way to heaven than Christ is contradictory of the gospel message,
thus causing the bible to contradict itself; and I don't think it
does that.
The bible clearly *does* contain some very GLARING
contradictions,
as
can easily be seen in that site to which Bill Baker referred us ---
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
So this would simply be one more case of that.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
A simple search will find just as many sites out there refuting those
sites
that bring up contradictions as there are that try to "expose" them.
Take
the very first listing on that site. Adam did die spiritually on the
same day he ate the fruit. Though not a physical death, that's the
reason everyone is born spiritually dead in sin. I'm not impressed
yet.
Your pathetic attempts at apologetics amuses me to no end. Can you
point out the exact verse where God said that Adam would die
"spiritually"? And by the way, if you can't find such a verse, you do
know how your god feels about people adding to the Bible, don't you?
Try reading Romans 5:12-21.
Nope, that doesn't mention dying spiritually, either.
I don't really expect someone such as yourself without any discernment
to get it, but you can at least try.
No, the thing is that I *do* get it. When you're not concerned with a
ridiculous notion like trying to prove the Bible is inerrant, you can
actually see the contradictions as they really are instead of trying to
twist verses to contain meanings that aren't there.
I challenge you to find where God says that Adam would die
"physically".
Your pathetic attempts to discredit the word of God are what is really
amusing here.
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat
of
it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Your denial of what is plainly said here is pathetic. What is equally
pathetic is your assumption that contradictions discredit the truths
that
are in the Bible. Truths such as these:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html
Such as what what?
So you deny that there are truths in the Bible?
Now don't start putting words into my mouth. I denied that there are
contradictions in the bible. I didn't realize I was talking to someone with
such a low comprehension level.
I said there were truths in the Bible and pointed you to a website, and
you still asked me, "Such as what what?" (whatever that means). You're
right, I do have a low comprehension level for idiots like you.
It didn't specify there that the death was a physical death. You lose
again. Thank you, please play agian.
Nor did it specify that it was a spiritual death. You lose again.
You must have a broken score counter being that I have yet to lose to you,
let alone to "lose again".
Keep dreaming.
The bible says throughout that he is born spiritually dead because of
Adams sin.
No it doesn't.
You'd be better off fighting a different war becuase the bible has been
up against people like you for almost 2000 years and still has stood the
test of time. You won't win. If you insist on making a fool of yourself
though, be my guest.
You haven't yet come up with a verse that says that Adam "died
spiritually" (again, whatever that means) and you're claiming victory?
You're a bigger fool than I originally thought. But go ahead and dance
around claiming victory with your non-proof, making up verses out of whole
cloth. I am ever amused by your antics.
--
Thurgood Lie #4:
"Male homosexuals like straight pornography"
news:1108447889.337979.150820@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "mike wilcox" |
|
| Title: Re: To all who wanted the Rapture to be VERY soon... too bad "Gamma"didn't form a week *earlier*. |
18 Nov 2005 04:57:25 PM |
|
|
Bill Baker wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:53:19 -0600, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<Ygjff.22160$sg5.6547@dukeread12>...
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:lbfqn1p4kv10k8ekvhkgjlakn4kqk4406m@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:57 -0600,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
-- Many people past the age of accountability...
What do you think this so-called age of accountability is? Be
sure to back it up with verses. Thus far I have seen no evidence
of it existing.
The best evidence may lie in the passages that have to do with
children getting a free pass. Without trying to hunt them down,
which I don't have time to do right now, I don't know which ones
those are.
Thus, there must be some point at which a person becomes
subject to judgment. And that almost certainly would have to be a
determination, made on a case-by-case basis, by the ONLY One
capable of knowing everyone's hearts.
In the case of people suffering from severe mental retardation,
early prolonged comas, etc. -- it may never be reached regardless
of the age that the person attains before dying.
All of the above is speculative, but it makes sense to me, based
on the general themes of the Bible.
I don't recall seeing any verses regarding ch | | | | | | | | | | | |
