| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Carl" |
| Date: |
07 Aug 2007 08:51:35 PM |
| Object: |
To Tell The Truth |
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when it
comes to the Holy Scriptures. They have to lie, misrepresent and use all
sorts of deception to try to support their antiBiblical stances. However
it's really no surprise since the source of all their antiBiblical stances
is the father of all lies, Satan. God abhors dishonesty and He abhors those
dishonest tactics used to try to bolster unBiblical teachings. He warned us
as Christians to watch out for those who teach falsely and to reject utterly
those false teachings. He told us to study the Holy Scriptures so we would
be able to discern the counterfeit from the legitimate. And when we rightly
do, it makes the heretics, false teachers and haters of God angry. I mean
spitting mad angry. And that's because they can't handle the truth of God.
Danny Hall's sermon has to do with the topic of honesty, something that is
impossible for the antiBiblical crowd to exhibit. I urge my Christian
brethren to read this Biblically-based article.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
TO TELL THE TRUTH
by Danny Hall
As I have been studying the Sermon on the Mount, I have been amazed at how
absolutely applicable it is to our contemporary society. It is as if Jesus
were looking down the corridor of time right to where we live when he was
speaking about these things. As the saying goes, the more things change, the
more they stay the same. Cultures and circumstances may change, but the
sinfulness of the human heart has never changed.
All kinds of things point to the fact that dishonesty is rampant in our
society. Here are a few examples:
Last week four men connected with BALCO Laboratories here in the Bay Area
were indicted for designing and distributing performance-enhancing steroids
to athletes. The most famous of their alleged clients was Barry Bonds,
although nothing has been proven about him personally. Performance-enhancing
drugs are intended for one thing: to enable athletes to cheat, to give them
an edge over their competitors. There is much money to be made both by those
selling the steroids and by the athletes who use them, as their statistics
go up and their value increases.
We are in the middle of the Martha Stewart trial, which is again about
cheating the system.
Recently there was a huge scandal at Saratoga High School about some
students' breaking in using some high-tech gizmos to steal answers to tests.
As we approach tax season it is a standard joke that people are not always
exactly honest on their income tax returns.
This is an election year, so we will be bombarded by promises and
accusations, a lot of truths and half-truths and no truth at all, all mixed
together in a frenzy of campaigning by candidates to get elected.
Besides all these big examples, there is the proverbial little white lie
that all of us every now and then reserve the right to use. Many times
across my career as a pastor, the question has come up, particularly with
other pastors, "How many people attend your church?" We pastors use
"ministerial math" and evangelistic crusade estimates to answer that
question. Somehow we are driven to present our church as being a little
better than the other guy's. And sometimes you are trapped; you don't even
know how to avoid the little white lie. Any of us who are husbands know what
it is like to have to answer the question, "Does this make me look fat?"
Part of our problem is that we have grown very comfortable with the shading
of the truth. We assume that everyone has an agenda through which they
filter truth. We call it spinning the truth in order to make it suit their
purposes, and that is somehow supposed to make it acceptable. We live in a
culture that really is characterized by dishonesty.
But this is nothing new. We're going to look at a passage that focuses on
similar issues that Jesus confronted in his day. Matthew 5:33-37:
Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, "You shall not make false
vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord." But I say to you, make no
oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth,
for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of
the great King. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make
one hair white or black. But let your statement be, "Yes, yes" or "No, no";
anything beyond these is of evil.
God values honesty
In order to understand what Jesus is talking about, we need to look at the
Old-Testament antecedents. The term "false vows" means perjury, deliberately
lying when others expect you to fulfill an oath. The term "fulfill your
vows" literally means to fence or box yourself in, to put a boundary around
yourself. So when you make an oath, you fence yourself in to tell the truth.
Oath-making has a lot of background in the Old-Testament Law. Leviticus
19:12 says, "You shall not swear falsely by My name, so as to profane the
name of your God; I am the Lord ." Numbers 30:2 says, "If a man makes a vow
to the Lord , or takes an oath to bind himself with a binding obligation, he
shall not violate his word; he shall do according to all that proceeds out
of his mouth." Deuteronomy 23:21-23 says, "When you make a vow to the L ord
your God, you shall not delay to pay it, for it would be sin in you, and the
L ord your God will surely require it of you. However, if you refrain from
vowing, it would not be sin in you. You shall be careful to perform what
goes out from your lips, just as you have voluntarily vowed to the L ord
your God, what you have promised." These Old-Testament antecedents to the
teaching of the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day all point to the fact
that God puts value on telling the truth.
The author of Hebrews reflects back on some of the Old-Testament oaths and
gives us some more insight into this matter. "For when God made the promise
to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,
saying, 'I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you.' And so,
having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. For men swear by one
greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an
end of every dispute. In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the
heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an
oath...." (Hebrews 6:13-17.)
To summarize, because of the human propensity to lie, God allowed oaths in
his name to add weight to a person's word in grave situations, to give a
sense of greater accountability for their word. Even God himself sometimes
made oaths, not because he ever lied, but to accentuate the gravity of the
situation. There are some things that need to transcend the normal human
tendency to deceive or to fudge the truth, and so oath-taking in the name of
the Lord was allowed among the people of Israel. Underneath that was God's
desire for us to be people of integrity, to fulfill our word.
But there was a problem that Jesus addresses in Matthew 5.
Jesus challenges cultural dishonesty
The Old-Testament instructions had been stretched into an elaborate system
of loopholes in the requirement to keep one's word. Notice this little
series of oaths he refers to: by heaven, by earth, by the city of Jerusalem,
even by their own head. A series of gradations of oaths had developed. They
could be more serious with some oaths and less serious with others. They had
taken the Old Testament allowances about swearing by God and his word and
twisted them. For instance, Leviticus 19:12 says not to swear falsely by the
Lord's name, but they took that to mean that they could swear falsely by
something other than the Lord's name. Numbers 30:2 says that if someone
makes an oath to God they must keep it, but they took that to mean that they
could renege on those made to anyone other than God. They could leave
themselves an out.
So people were managing the truth, if you will, coloring their relationships
with one another with varying levels of commitment to fulfill their promises
and vows. The result was a culture of deceit. Peter himself fell victim to
this temptation later in the gospel of Matthew. Having walked with Jesus
throughout his earthly ministry, Peter was fearful as Jesus was taken to
trial. Matthew 26:69-74 tells the story of Peter's denials of Jesus:
"Now Peter was sitting outside in the courtyard, and a servant-girl came to
him and said, 'You too were with Jesus the Galilean.' But he denied it
before them all, saying, 'I do not know what you are talking about.' When he
had gone out to the gateway, another servant-girl saw him and said to those
who were there, 'This man was with Jesus of Nazareth.' And again he denied
it with an oath, 'I do not know the man.' A little later the bystanders came
up and said to Peter, 'Surely you too are one of them; for even the way you
talk gives you away.' Then he began to curse and swear, 'I do not know the
man!'"
The word "swear" here is not the word for profanity; it is a strong word for
oath-taking. Reflecting the spirit of his culture, Peter invoked the regular
habit of swearing by something other than the name of God to try to lend
weight to his words, even in the moment when he knew in his heart that he
was deceiving. And of course, immediately after that, the rooster crowed and
Peter went and wept bitterly, for the prophecy that Jesus had given him came
true. He realized the deceitfulness in his heart and how he had abandoned
his Lord.
So what is Jesus' command in the midst of this elaborate system of deceit?
"I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne
of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by
Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you make an oath
by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black." What he is
saying is, whatever you swear on, everything in this creation is connected
to God, and it is silly to think that somehow you can make an oath by
something less than the name of God and then not keep it. So his command is
simply to stop it.
Now, how far do we take this? Based on the whole teaching of Scripture, it
seems unlikely that Jesus means to prohibit ever making any sort of oath or
vow in any place at any time, the way some have applied it. The Jehovah's
Witnesses refuse to take an oath when they testify in court and refuse to
say the Pledge of Allegiance, interpreting those things as violations of
this command. In Matthew 23:16 Jesus addresses the Pharisees and scribes and
takes up this same subject up again: "Woe to you, blind guides, who say,
'Whoever swears by the temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the
gold of the temple is obligated.'" He doesn't say, "Never make an oath." He
just says, "Let your words represent the truth."
What he is basically telling us is to break free from a system that
cultivates dishonesty and hypocrisy, to practice integrity in all things.
Notice the final way he says it: "But let your statement be, 'Yes, yes' or
'No, no.'" This is an emphatic way of saying, "Whatever comes out of your
mouth, let it be truthful. Do not hide behind even culturally accepted ways
of shading the truth." As followers of God, we are to step out of that
normal tendency. We are to be men and women of integrity who speak the truth
clearly to one another.
"Anything beyond these is of evil." This can also be translated, "of the
evil one." Satan is the father of lies, and from the very beginning, it has
been his strategy to deceive people, to distort God's word. The initial
temptation of Adam and Eve was based on a distortion of God's word, and out
of that he has continued to lie, twist the truth, and promote lying and
twisting of the truth. It is in this satanic stream of deception that you
and I live, but God calls us as his people to be committed to integrity,
through his grace and the power of the Holy Spirit working in us.
What does it mean to be people of integrity? Let me share three
implications.
Dishonesty assaults community
First, we must value what God values. This same point has come up in each of
the practical examples that Jesus has been giving us. First he dealt with
the issue of murder in 5:21-26 and told us that the whole idea is that God
values each and every human life, body and soul and spirit, and when we
speak cruelly or angrily or in a demeaning way, we are assaulting the soul
of one for whom Christ died and whom he loves unconditionally. Then in
5:27-32 we saw that adultery is an assault on something else God values:
marriage, and the picture of intimacy with God that it represents.
Now we see that dishonesty is assaulting community, which God values
greatly. Relationships cannot grow in a climate of dishonesty. Imagine
living in Jesus' day, in that highly regulated religious society. The
scribes and Pharisees had laid down these layers of minute applications of
the Law, exhorted people to follow them, and condemned those who did not.
This was supposed to be a unified culture of the people of God,
distinguished by love and forgiveness and glory and worship of God. Yet they
had evolved into this system of rules and regulations that permitted the
shading of the truth. Where is the sense of community in that? A lack of
openness and honesty is a direct assault on community. Community cannot
flourish where dishonesty reigns. Nothing hinders relationships more. So the
major implication of this passage is that you and I cannot live in
fellowship with one another as the people of God in a society or a group or
a church body that is characterized by shading of the truth, something less
than full openness in our relationships with each other.
A second implication of being people of integrity is that it falls to us to
demonstrate to this world the heart of God for community. Living in the
fractured society that ours is, part of being salt and light in this world
is to demonstrate that there is a better way than living for ourselves. One
of the ways we can demonstrate to our world the beauty of who Christ is and
his heart for people is learning to openly and honestly live with one
another, loving each other unconditionally, being vulnerable with each
other, cultivating honesty in our relationships with each other. The world
is hungry for this kind of community, and that is our calling as the
followers of Jesus.
A third implication is that nurturing honesty in the body of Christ requires
four things: grace, humility, vulnerability, and forgiveness.
It is unfortunate that churches throughout the history of Christianity have
been characterized less by a spirit of grace toward one another than by a
spirit of condemnation. When we come together with other Christians, there
are huge areas of our experience that we hide, because we are afraid that if
we are open and honest, what we reveal will somehow be used against us. The
lack of grace in the church continues to cultivate the felt need for
dishonesty.
To encourage honesty requires humility. I cannot walk into the fellowship of
this body or any group of people with a sense of arrogance or pride that
somehow I am better than the rest, or a sense that I have to present myself
that way.
We have to let ourselves become vulnerable. As long as I walk into this
community covered with layers of self-protection, wearing a mask of strength
that I don't really have, I contribute to the spirit of dishonesty and
detract from community. Now the reason we don't let ourselves become
vulnerable, as I said, is fear. Is it not tragic that one of the places in
our society where people feel least free to be totally honest is the church?
We can't open ourselves up and say, "These are all the things that are wrong
with me. I need the grace and love and strength of the community of faith."
Finally, we're going to hurt each other and fail each other. Even through
God's grace and the power of his Spirit, we are still in the process of
growing. We have not arrived. So we have to humbly and graciously forgive
one another.
There are a couple of superficial ways that we Christians consistently fail
to be honest. One is the way that we answer a common question, and the other
is a flippant statement that we often make. When we are asked, "How are you
doing?" we answer, "Fine." Perhaps with somebody we really trust we will
crack open a little bit: "It's been a tough week. You know how it goes." The
flippant statement we consistently make when we hear someone share a problem
is, "I'll pray for you." These are subtle ways of lying, but they permeate
the community. What would happen if we shared with each other how we are
really doing? What would happen if, when we said we would pray for each
other, we really did that? These are just two very simple things that are
part of the everyday course of relationships even in the body of Christ. If
we could alter these two things, maybe it would be a step toward true
community--true honesty, true vulnerability, taking off the masks, being
open with each other, demonstrating the beauty of the truth to a world that
is plagued by dishonesty. It is time for us as the people of God to
absolutely commit ourselves to each other.
Now, certainly people come from different backgrounds and have different
needs and preferences. There is not a simple solution to this. But to follow
Christ, to have his heart, we have to be committed to honesty in all things,
and we need to pray for God's healing, for the grace through his Spirit to
move toward that kind of honesty and vulnerability.
I invite you to join with me in prayer and reflection on God's call to us to
be a community of honest people who love each other unconditionally. Here
are some areas in our own community that we need to open up to the Lord
about:
To begin, what are the ways that you yourself shade the truth? How could you
be hindering relationships and growth because of your lack of honesty and
openness?
The last few months have been hard at our church. A lot of difficult
decisions have been made, and as a result people have been hurt, accusations
have been made, and there has been some real strain on the fellowship here.
Pray about your own attitude toward the body, toward our leaders, toward
those who might see things differently from you. How have we violated the
spirit of community? How would God bring healing, repentance, and
forgiveness into our body?
There are people in our body who are hurting in a lot of different ways. A
number of our people have been out of work for some time. Some of our people
are homeless. These are things that just rattle right down to the core of a
person's sense of dignity. How have we as a church created a climate in
which people who are hurting can't be honest about their struggles? Pray
that God would give you an open heart to hear, or if you are one who is
hurting, to share the burdens of your heart.
There are people all around us in our community who need to know of the Lord
Jesus. How are we as a community of faith demonstrating God's love by the
way we are living in love with each other as we are in love with the Lord?
With the opening of the movie The Passion of the Christ , we are coming into
a season in which many predict the name of Jesus is really going to be
debated in our society. With each passing day the controversy surrounding it
rises. People all around us are going to be thinking about Jesus. Are we
prepared to talk about who he is? Are we prepared to demonstrate the power
of his sacrificial love through the way we love each other? Spend a few
moments praying about the impact of our church and the kind of people we
are, that we would lift up the name of Jesus and be able to answer the
questions about him that people are going to be asking.
Scripture quotations are taken from the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE
("NASB"). © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by
The Lockman Foundation. Used by permission.
Catalog No. 4907
Matthew 5:33-37
Danny Hall
February 15, 2004
Copyright © 2004 Discovery Publishing, a ministry of Peninsula Bible Church.
This data file is the sole property of Discovery Publishing, a ministry of
Peninsula Bible Church. It may be copied only in its entirety for
circulation freely without charge. All copies of this data file must contain
the above copyright notice. This data file may not be copied in part,
edited, revised, copied for resale or incorporated in any commercial
publications, recordings, broadcasts, performances, displays or other
products offered for sale, without the written permission of Discovery
Publishing. Requests for permission should be made in writing and addressed
to Discovery Publishing, 3505 Middlefield Rd. Palo Alto, CA. 94306-3695.
.
|
|
| User: "Mark T moi@herethereandeverywhere63" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
07 Aug 2007 09:07:50 PM |
|
|
"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wroteth:
heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet have
one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when it
comes to the Holy Scriptures.
The bible was never "holy".
Quoting the Bible is NOT quoting God.
BIBLE - the Fundamentalist Golden Calf which comes in a Trew Kristyun
version that you can supersize with added fries (in Hell).
The Bible ...[is] ... a collection of human responses to God (very human,
some of them all too human), which we are at liberty to use in the process
of formulating our own individual, unique response to God. We don't do that
by imitating these responses slavishly. I mean God, if he exists, doesn't
want innumerable clones of the apostle Paul. He wants us to respond to him,
each of us in our own unique way. And we can use the Bible to do that, but
we don't do it by obeying it slavishly and blindly. - Peter Cameron
"Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 195
Fundies can kiss my left behind! {_l_}
--
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A CHRISTUS OBNOXIUM
.... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:
'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.
Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.
And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'
Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
07 Aug 2007 10:39:58 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:07:50 +1000, "Mark T"
<moi@herethereandeverywhere63> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wroteth:
heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet have
one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when it
comes to the Holy Scriptures.
The bible was never "holy".
The words in it are the words of the Holy God.
Quoting the Bible is NOT quoting God.
In many cases, that's EXACTLY what it is!
"Do unto others as you wish they would do unto you" is a quote (sort
of) of God (Jesus).
BIBLE - the Fundamentalist Golden Calf which comes in a Trew Kristyun
version that you can supersize with added fries (in Hell).
Could you explain why -- in a discussion among people who are
presumed to be adults, you must resort to very childishly calling
names?
tsk tsk
The Bible ...[is] ... a collection of human responses to God (very human,
some of them all too human), which we are at liberty to use in the process
of formulating our own individual, unique response to God. We don't do that
by imitating these responses slavishly. I mean God, if he exists, doesn't
want innumerable clones of the apostle Paul. He wants us to respond to him,
each of us in our own unique way. And we can use the Bible to do that, but
we don't do it by obeying it slavishly and blindly. - Peter Cameron
"Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 195
Fundies can kiss my left behind! {_l_}
--
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A CHRISTUS OBNOXIUM
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:
'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.
Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.
And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'
Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark T moi@wherever02" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
08 Aug 2007 04:15:09 AM |
|
|
"john w @yoohoo.com>" wroteth:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
*****!
The bible was never "holy".
The words in it are the words of the Holy God.
Like these .....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NAUGHTY WORDS IN THE BIBLE (KJV)
1 Samuel
David vows to kill "any that pisseth against the wall." 25:22, 34
1 Kings
God promises to "bring evil upon the house of Jerobaom" and says he will
"cut off" anyone "that pisseth against the wall." 14:10
Zimri kills everyone "that pisseth against a wall ... according to the word
of the Lord." 16:11-12
God promises to "bring evil upon thee" and to "cut off" all those "that
pisseth against the wall." 21:21
2 Kings
God says that the "whole house of Ahab shall perish," and that he "will cut
off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall." 9:8
This verse speaks of eating and drinking one's own bodily waste products.
Charming. 18:27
Psalms
The psalmist asks God to " do unto them as unto the Midianites ... which
became as dung for the earth." 83:9-18
Isaiah
People eating "their own dung" and drinking "their own *****" 36:12
Ezekiel
God tells Ezekiel to eat barley cakes that are made with "the dung that
cometh out of man." (Yum!) 4:12
God trades "cow's dung for man's dung" and then he tells Ezekiel to make
bread out of the cow's dung. 4:15
Malachi
"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces." 2:3
Matthew
Jesus calls his adversaries a "generation of vipers." 12:34
Jesus calls the Pharisees "hypocrites, wicked, and adulterous." 15:2-3
Jesus speaks harshly of his disciples when they fail to cast out the devil,
saying "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you?"
17:17
Jesus calls his critics fools, hypocrites, serpents, vipers, kiilers of the
prophets, and just about every other name he can think of. 23:17-37
Luke
Jesus calls his critics fools, thus making himself, by his own standards
(Mt.5:22), worthy of "hell fire." 11:40
The man (whoever he was) who talked with the two unnamed apostles on the way
to Emmaus calls them "fools," thereby making himself a candidate for "hell
fire." (Mt.5:22) 24:25
John
Jesus calls his opponents (the Jews) the sons of the devil. 8:44
Acts
"And when they [the Jews of Corinth] opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he
[Paul] shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own
heads." (Have a nice day?) 18:6
Paul says, "God will smite thee, thou whited wall." 23:3
Romans
Paul calls people fools, thus making himself worthy of "hell fire."
(Mt.5:22) 1:22
1 Corinthians
Paul calls people fools, thereby making himself eligible for "hell fire"
(according to the words of Jesus in Mt.5:22). 15:36
Galatians
Paul calls the Galatians "foolish" and thus makes himself worthy of hell
fire. (Mt.5:22) 3:1
"I would they were even cut off which trouble you." The New Revised Standard
Version translates this verse as: "I wish those who unsettle you would
castrate themselves!" 5:12
Philippians
"Beware of dogs ... beware of the concision." I'm not sure who Paul is
calling "dogs" here. Some say he is referring to Jews -- to those of "the
concision", as opposed to Christians, who are of the "true circumcision". In
any case, Paul is expressing hostility and intolerance toward his fellow
human beings. 3:2
Titus
According to Paul, the people of Crete are "always liars, evil beasts, slow
bellies." 1:12
To Paul, Jews are unruly liars "whose mouths must be stopped." 1:10-11
Philemon
Paul says that "the bowels of the saints are refreshed by "Philemon." 1:7
Paul asks Philemon to receive Onesimus just as though he were Paul's very
"own bowels." 1:12
Paul pleads with Philemon to "refresh [his] bowels in the Lord." Amen 1:20
James
James calls his readers a bunch of "adulterers and adulteresses." 4:4
3 John
John says he "will remember his [Diotrephes] deeds ... pratting against us
with malicious words." 1:10
Adapted from http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quoting the Bible is NOT quoting God.
In many cases, that's EXACTLY what it is!
--
Jesus said in Matthew 5:42, "Give to him that asketh thee, and from
him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." May I have your house
and car and may I borrow your most prized possession?
--
Fundies can kiss my left behind! {_l_}
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
08 Aug 2007 06:36:45 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 19:15:09 +1000, "Mark T" <moi@wherever02> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
"john w @yoohoo.com>" wroteth:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
*****!
AGAIN, foolish child, (one with an INFANTILE personality)
You openly declare that you are a CRIMINAL with NO respect for the
[property / intellectual ] right of others!
It is so noted!
The bible was never "holy".
The words in it are the words of the Holy God.
Like these .....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NAUGHTY WORDS IN THE BIBLE (KJV)
1 Samuel
David vows to kill "any that pisseth against the wall." 25:22, 34
smirk.
"Oh! THIS one!"
(hint, stupid one: It MIGHT help if you were to get a modern
language Bible so that you could get AROUND the archaic language of
the King Jimmy 'scholars', and so you could actually see--
unimpeded--what the Word of God is actually saying through His
prophets (Samuel was a prophet).)
Who is it (gender ? ) that "pisses against the wall?"
Would that person be male or would that person be female?
You may not like how the King James scholars expressed the thought,
but essentially, they were expressing-- in the Elizabethan tongue--
that God is vowing to kill (exterminate) all males in a given
circumstance!!
Does that cut through your mind-numbing, infantile mental fog?
Glad I could help!
:-)
john w
1 Kings
God promises to "bring evil upon the house of Jerobaom" and says he will
"cut off" anyone "that pisseth against the wall." 14:10
Zimri kills everyone "that pisseth against a wall ... according to the word
of the Lord." 16:11-12
God promises to "bring evil upon thee" and to "cut off" all those "that
pisseth against the wall." 21:21
2 Kings
God says that the "whole house of Ahab shall perish," and that he "will cut
off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall." 9:8
This verse speaks of eating and drinking one's own bodily waste products.
Charming. 18:27
Psalms
The psalmist asks God to " do unto them as unto the Midianites ... which
became as dung for the earth." 83:9-18
Isaiah
People eating "their own dung" and drinking "their own *****" 36:12
Ezekiel
God tells Ezekiel to eat barley cakes that are made with "the dung that
cometh out of man." (Yum!) 4:12
God trades "cow's dung for man's dung" and then he tells Ezekiel to make
bread out of the cow's dung. 4:15
Malachi
"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces." 2:3
Matthew
Jesus calls his adversaries a "generation of vipers." 12:34
Jesus calls the Pharisees "hypocrites, wicked, and adulterous." 15:2-3
Jesus speaks harshly of his disciples when they fail to cast out the devil,
saying "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you?"
17:17
Jesus calls his critics fools, hypocrites, serpents, vipers, kiilers of the
prophets, and just about every other name he can think of. 23:17-37
Luke
Jesus calls his critics fools, thus making himself, by his own standards
(Mt.5:22), worthy of "hell fire." 11:40
The man (whoever he was) who talked with the two unnamed apostles on the way
to Emmaus calls them "fools," thereby making himself a candidate for "hell
fire." (Mt.5:22) 24:25
John
Jesus calls his opponents (the Jews) the sons of the devil. 8:44
Acts
"And when they [the Jews of Corinth] opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he
[Paul] shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own
heads." (Have a nice day?) 18:6
Paul says, "God will smite thee, thou whited wall." 23:3
Romans
Paul calls people fools, thus making himself worthy of "hell fire."
(Mt.5:22) 1:22
1 Corinthians
Paul calls people fools, thereby making himself eligible for "hell fire"
(according to the words of Jesus in Mt.5:22). 15:36
Galatians
Paul calls the Galatians "foolish" and thus makes himself worthy of hell
fire. (Mt.5:22) 3:1
"I would they were even cut off which trouble you." The New Revised Standard
Version translates this verse as: "I wish those who unsettle you would
castrate themselves!" 5:12
Philippians
"Beware of dogs ... beware of the concision." I'm not sure who Paul is
calling "dogs" here. Some say he is referring to Jews -- to those of "the
concision", as opposed to Christians, who are of the "true circumcision". In
any case, Paul is expressing hostility and intolerance toward his fellow
human beings. 3:2
Titus
According to Paul, the people of Crete are "always liars, evil beasts, slow
bellies." 1:12
To Paul, Jews are unruly liars "whose mouths must be stopped." 1:10-11
Philemon
Paul says that "the bowels of the saints are refreshed by "Philemon." 1:7
Paul asks Philemon to receive Onesimus just as though he were Paul's very
"own bowels." 1:12
Paul pleads with Philemon to "refresh [his] bowels in the Lord." Amen 1:20
James
James calls his readers a bunch of "adulterers and adulteresses." 4:4
3 John
John says he "will remember his [Diotrephes] deeds ... pratting against us
with malicious words." 1:10
Adapted from http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quoting the Bible is NOT quoting God.
In many cases, that's EXACTLY what it is!
--
Jesus said in Matthew 5:42, "Give to him that asketh thee, and from
him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." May I have your house
and car and may I borrow your most prized possession?
--
Fundies can kiss my left behind! {_l_}
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark T moi@righthere01" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
08 Aug 2007 06:40:48 PM |
|
|
"john w @woohoo.con>" wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
*****!
The bible was never "holy".
The words in it are the words of the Holy God.
Like these .....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NAUGHTY WORDS IN THE BIBLE (KJV)
1 Samuel
David vows to kill "any that pisseth against the wall." 25:22, 34
smirk.
"Oh! THIS one!"
.... and the rest ..................
1 Kings
God promises to "bring evil upon the house of Jerobaom" and says he will
"cut off" anyone "that pisseth against the wall." 14:10
Zimri kills everyone "that pisseth against a wall ... according to the
word
of the Lord." 16:11-12
God promises to "bring evil upon thee" and to "cut off" all those "that
pisseth against the wall." 21:21
2 Kings
God says that the "whole house of Ahab shall perish," and that he "will
cut
off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall." 9:8
This verse speaks of eating and drinking one's own bodily waste products.
Charming. 18:27
Psalms
The psalmist asks God to " do unto them as unto the Midianites ... which
became as dung for the earth." 83:9-18
Isaiah
People eating "their own dung" and drinking "their own *****" 36:12
Ezekiel
God tells Ezekiel to eat barley cakes that are made with "the dung that
cometh out of man." (Yum!) 4:12
God trades "cow's dung for man's dung" and then he tells Ezekiel to make
bread out of the cow's dung. 4:15
Malachi
"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces." 2:3
Matthew
Jesus calls his adversaries a "generation of vipers." 12:34
Jesus calls the Pharisees "hypocrites, wicked, and adulterous." 15:2-3
Jesus speaks harshly of his disciples when they fail to cast out the
devil,
saying "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with
you?"
17:17
Jesus calls his critics fools, hypocrites, serpents, vipers, kiilers of
the
prophets, and just about every other name he can think of. 23:17-37
Luke
Jesus calls his critics fools, thus making himself, by his own standards
(Mt.5:22), worthy of "hell fire." 11:40
The man (whoever he was) who talked with the two unnamed apostles on the
way
to Emmaus calls them "fools," thereby making himself a candidate for "hell
fire." (Mt.5:22) 24:25
John
Jesus calls his opponents (the Jews) the sons of the devil. 8:44
Acts
"And when they [the Jews of Corinth] opposed themselves, and blasphemed,
he
[Paul] shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own
heads." (Have a nice day?) 18:6
Paul says, "God will smite thee, thou whited wall." 23:3
Romans
Paul calls people fools, thus making himself worthy of "hell fire."
(Mt.5:22) 1:22
1 Corinthians
Paul calls people fools, thereby making himself eligible for "hell fire"
(according to the words of Jesus in Mt.5:22). 15:36
Galatians
Paul calls the Galatians "foolish" and thus makes himself worthy of hell
fire. (Mt.5:22) 3:1
"I would they were even cut off which trouble you." The New Revised
Standard
Version translates this verse as: "I wish those who unsettle you would
castrate themselves!" 5:12
Philippians
"Beware of dogs ... beware of the concision." I'm not sure who Paul is
calling "dogs" here. Some say he is referring to Jews -- to those of "the
concision", as opposed to Christians, who are of the "true circumcision".
In
any case, Paul is expressing hostility and intolerance toward his fellow
human beings. 3:2
Titus
According to Paul, the people of Crete are "always liars, evil beasts,
slow
bellies." 1:12
To Paul, Jews are unruly liars "whose mouths must be stopped." 1:10-11
Philemon
Paul says that "the bowels of the saints are refreshed by "Philemon." 1:7
Paul asks Philemon to receive Onesimus just as though he were Paul's very
"own bowels." 1:12
Paul pleads with Philemon to "refresh [his] bowels in the Lord." Amen 1:20
James
James calls his readers a bunch of "adulterers and adulteresses." 4:4
3 John
John says he "will remember his [Diotrephes] deeds ... pratting against us
with malicious words." 1:10
Adapted from http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
Fundies can kiss my left behind! {_l_}
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
08 Aug 2007 07:35:48 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:40:48 +1000, "Mark T" <moi@righthere01> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
"john w @woohoo.con>" wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
*****!
The bible was never "holy".
The words in it are the words of the Holy God.
Like these .....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NAUGHTY WORDS IN THE BIBLE (KJV)
1 Samuel
David vows to kill "any that pisseth against the wall." 25:22, 34
smirk.
"Oh! THIS one!"
... and the rest ..................
1 Kings
God promises to "bring evil upon the house of Jerobaom" and says he will
"cut off" anyone "that pisseth against the wall." 14:10
Zimri kills everyone "that pisseth against a wall ... according to the
word
of the Lord." 16:11-12
God promises to "bring evil upon thee" and to "cut off" all those "that
pisseth against the wall." 21:21
2 Kings
God says that the "whole house of Ahab shall perish," and that he "will
cut
off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall." 9:8
This verse speaks of eating and drinking one's own bodily waste products.
Charming. 18:27
Psalms
The psalmist asks God to " do unto them as unto the Midianites ... which
became as dung for the earth." 83:9-18
Isaiah
People eating "their own dung" and drinking "their own *****" 36:12
Ezekiel
God tells Ezekiel to eat barley cakes that are made with "the dung that
cometh out of man." (Yum!) 4:12
God trades "cow's dung for man's dung" and then he tells Ezekiel to make
bread out of the cow's dung. 4:15
Malachi
"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces." 2:3
Matthew
Jesus calls his adversaries a "generation of vipers." 12:34
Jesus calls the Pharisees "hypocrites, wicked, and adulterous." 15:2-3
Jesus speaks harshly of his disciples when they fail to cast out the
devil,
saying "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with
you?"
17:17
Jesus calls his critics fools, hypocrites, serpents, vipers, kiilers of
the
prophets, and just about every other name he can think of. 23:17-37
Luke
Jesus calls his critics fools, thus making himself, by his own standards
(Mt.5:22), worthy of "hell fire." 11:40
The man (whoever he was) who talked with the two unnamed apostles on the
way
to Emmaus calls them "fools," thereby making himself a candidate for "hell
fire." (Mt.5:22) 24:25
John
Jesus calls his opponents (the Jews) the sons of the devil. 8:44
Acts
"And when they [the Jews of Corinth] opposed themselves, and blasphemed,
he
[Paul] shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own
heads." (Have a nice day?) 18:6
Paul says, "God will smite thee, thou whited wall." 23:3
Romans
Paul calls people fools, thus making himself worthy of "hell fire."
(Mt.5:22) 1:22
1 Corinthians
Paul calls people fools, thereby making himself eligible for "hell fire"
(according to the words of Jesus in Mt.5:22). 15:36
Galatians
Paul calls the Galatians "foolish" and thus makes himself worthy of hell
fire. (Mt.5:22) 3:1
"I would they were even cut off which trouble you." The New Revised
Standard
Version translates this verse as: "I wish those who unsettle you would
castrate themselves!" 5:12
Philippians
"Beware of dogs ... beware of the concision." I'm not sure who Paul is
calling "dogs" here. Some say he is referring to Jews -- to those of "the
concision", as opposed to Christians, who are of the "true circumcision".
In
any case, Paul is expressing hostility and intolerance toward his fellow
human beings. 3:2
Titus
According to Paul, the people of Crete are "always liars, evil beasts,
slow
bellies." 1:12
To Paul, Jews are unruly liars "whose mouths must be stopped." 1:10-11
Philemon
Paul says that "the bowels of the saints are refreshed by "Philemon." 1:7
Paul asks Philemon to receive Onesimus just as though he were Paul's very
"own bowels." 1:12
Paul pleads with Philemon to "refresh [his] bowels in the Lord." Amen 1:20
James
James calls his readers a bunch of "adulterers and adulteresses." 4:4
3 John
John says he "will remember his [Diotrephes] deeds ... pratting against us
with malicious words." 1:10
Adapted from http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
Fundies can kiss my left behind! {_l_}
^ ^ Your tolerance for others is noted!
And -- RE your remark:
" Fundies can kiss my left behind! {_l_}"
You are WAY behind!
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "rogue" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
08 Aug 2007 08:28:43 AM |
|
|
Carl wrote:
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when it
comes to the Holy Scriptures. They have to lie, misrepresent and use all
sorts of deception to try to support their antiBiblical stances.
JERRY
Interesting.
I asked you to show me where the bible says that you must believe in
the Trinity in order to be saved. You were unable to show me that,
but instead pointed to a handful of verses which you interpreted to
mean that you had to believe in the Trinity. I pointed out that you
were reading into the verses and explained that NOWHERE in the bible
does Jesus, John or Paul say that you must believe in the Trinity to
be saved.
You were the one lying, misrepresenting and using deception to support
your stance.
I pointed out that the bible fails on Prophecy and offered to debate
you on the failed fulfillment of the destruction of the island city of
Tyre. You refused.
When I point out the fallacies of your arguments, Carl, you are the
one who misrepresents.
I don't have to. I know what the bible says and don't have to read
into the text for what I want to see there.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
08 Aug 2007 12:47:18 PM |
|
|
rogue wrote:
Carl wrote:
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when it
comes to the Holy Scriptures. They have to lie, misrepresent and use all
sorts of deception to try to support their antiBiblical stances.
JERRY
Interesting.
I asked you to show me where the bible says that you must believe in
the Trinity in order to be saved. You were unable to show me that,
but instead pointed to a handful of verses which you interpreted to
mean that you had to believe in the Trinity. I pointed out that you
were reading into the verses and explained that NOWHERE in the bible
does Jesus, John or Paul say that you must believe in the Trinity to
be saved.
Correct.
You were the one lying, misrepresenting and using deception to support
your stance.
I pointed out that the bible fails on Prophecy
That prophecy has not yet been fulfilled does not equate to failure.
and offered to debate
you on the failed fulfillment of the destruction of the island city of
Tyre. You refused.
Quote Easton:
Tyre consisted of two distinct parts, a rocky fortress on the mainland,
called "Old Tyre," and the city, built on a small, rocky island about
half-a-mile distant from the shore. It was a place of great strength. It
was besieged by Shalmaneser, who was assisted by the Phoenicians of the
mainland, for five years, and by Nebuchadnezzar (B.C. 586-573) for
thirteen years, apparently without success. It afterwards fell under the
power of Alexander the Great, after a siege of seven months, but
continued to maintain much of its commercial importance till the
Christian era. It is referred to in Matt. 11:21 and Acts 12:20.
In A.D. 1291 it was taken by the Saracens, and has remained a desolate
ruin ever since.
End quote.
When I point out the fallacies of your arguments, Carl, you are the
one who misrepresents.
I don't have to. I know what the bible says and don't have to read
into the text for what I want to see there.
I agree with your idea -- but point out that having read what is in the
bible you can still arrive at a wrong conclusion about what you have read.
Glenn
His witness
--
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
Note, the site at xprt.net will close 1Sept07 and open as
www.thelittlebookopened.org [Key words:] "The Little Book";
Glenn McClary, servitum, gaedhealic, oldwetdog
.
|
|
|
| User: "rogue" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
09 Aug 2007 04:53:51 AM |
|
|
On Aug 8, 9:47 pm, Glenn <gamccl...@spiritone.com> wrote:
rogue wrote:
Carl wrote:
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Use=
net
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty wh=
en it
comes to the Holy Scriptures. They have to lie, misrepresent and use a=
ll
sorts of deception to try to support their antiBiblical stances.
JERRY
Interesting.
I asked you to show me where the bible says that you must believe in
the Trinity in order to be saved. You were unable to show me that,
but instead pointed to a handful of verses which you interpreted to
mean that you had to believe in the Trinity. I pointed out that you
were reading into the verses and explained that NOWHERE in the bible
does Jesus, John or Paul say that you must believe in the Trinity to
be saved.
Correct.
You were the one lying, misrepresenting and using deception to support
your stance.
I pointed out that the bible fails on Prophecy
GLENN
That prophecy has not yet been fulfilled does not equate to failure.
JERRY
Actually, it does. You simply have to read it to see that it
failed.
The prophecy was obviously written during the time of the events
unfolding. Ezekiel was very specific. He wrote of the island city
being destroyed, why the island city was to be destroyed (because of
their behavior, and that Yahweh would demonstrate his power), the
prophecy goes on to say that the "daughters in the field," (mainland
villages) would also be destroyed. The destruction of the island city
was to be performed by the King of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, a "King of
Kings," a monarch who was so powerful that he had lesser kings bowing
to him and whose armies fought on his behalf.
Then, once the island city was conquered, once it was made "like one
uninhabitable," then Nebs would scrape it bare as a rock, would remove
everything, so that it would become a place "for the spreading of nets
in the midst of the sea." Then, once that was accomplished, Yahweh
would send "the deep" to come and carry the island away, all trace of
Tyre, where it would never be found again.
Like I said, all of these things were specific in the prophecy. What
happened? We know from Josephus that Nebs laid siege to the island
city for thirteen years. At the end of the thirteen years, he signed
a contract/truce with the city.
It was not conquered by Nebs, as the prophecy predicted.
How do we know in the text that it was a failed prophecy? Ezekiel
tells us so, in chapter 29 when he talks of heads being made bare in
the armies of King Nebs in their attempts to conquer Tyre and that
because of his service, Yahweh gave him Egypt for 40 years, and during
that 40 year period, nothing would live there.
Now, there has never been a time in known and recorded history where
Egypt was uninhabited by people, let alone a 40 year period where
there were not even hares.
Obviously another failed claim.
Ezekiel was not really a prophet of god, apparently, since his
prophecies obviously didn't come true. Personally, I think he was on
drugs.
and offered to debate
you on the failed fulfillment of the destruction of the island city of
Tyre. You refused.
Quote Easton:
Tyre consisted of two distinct parts, a rocky fortress on the mainland,
called "Old Tyre," and the city, built on a small, rocky island about
half-a-mile distant from the shore. It was a place of great strength. It
was besieged by Shalmaneser, who was assisted by the Phoenicians of the
mainland, for five years, and by Nebuchadnezzar (B.C. 586-573) for
thirteen years, apparently without success.
JERRY
First, the power of Tyre was ALWAYS the island. That's why the verses
Ezekiel uses are "midst of the sea," because he's speaking of the
island city, not the mainland.
How can you have Tyre in the MIDST of the sea and not be an island?
But that's not all.
http://www.bartleby.com/65/ty/Tyre.html
Tyre (tr) (KEY) , ancient city of Phoenicia, S of Sidon. It is the
present-day Sur in Lebanon, a small town on a peninsula jutting into
the Mediterranean from the mainland of Syria S of Beirut. IT WAS BUILT
ON AN ISLAND just off the mainland, but the accumulation of sand
around a mole built by Alexander the Great to facilitate his siege of
the city (333=E2=80=93332 B.C.) has formed a causeway more than .5 mi (.8 k=
m)
Also, the phrase "daughters in the field" has always meant the
mainland villages, and reading the same text (Ezekiel Chapter 26) in
different translations of the bible verifies that. When Ezekiel says
he (Nebs) shall slay your daughters who are in the field, he was
talking about the conquering and destruction of the mainland villages,
which wasn't that big a deal - every conquerer destroyed them.
Here are some examples:
NASB 6 'Also her (8) daughters who are on the mainland will be slain
by the sword, and they will know that I am the LORD.'"
NASB 8 "He will slay your daughters on the mainland with the sword;
and he will make (11) siege walls against you, cast up a (12) ramp
against you and raise up a large shield against you.
New Revised Standard: It shall become plunder for the nations, 6and
its daughter-towns in the country shall be killed by the sword. Then
they shall know that I am the LORD. 7For thus says the Lord GOD: I
will bring against Tyre from the north King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon,
king of kings, together with horses, chariots, cavalry, and a great
and powerful army. 8Your daughter-towns in the country he shall put to
the sword.
NIV: 6 and her settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the
sword. Then they will know that I am the LORD .
7 "For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: From the north I am going
to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar [1] king of Babylon, king of
kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army. 8 He
will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will
set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and
raise his shields against you.
Also, while the city on the mainland was oft-times referred to as
"Mainland Tyre" because of it's proximity to the island city, it's
real name was "Ushu (Harpers Bible
Dictionary, 1985, p. 1101).
GLENN
It afterwards fell under the power of Alexander the Great, after a
siege of seven months,
JERRY
However, the prophecy wasn't about Alexander, was it? It was about
Nebs. And the reason why you don't want to use Alexander as
fulfillment is the whole purpose of the prophecy in the first place:
Yahweh would not have had his prophet announce the destruction of Tyre
by Nebs if it wouldn't be conquered until over 300 years later - that
defeats the entire purpose of the prophecy in the first place - to
show the power of Yahweh, and that he was more powerful than the
Phoenicians who ruled Tyre. Using Alexander as fulfillment is the
same as having Ezekiel announce "yep, My god is a mighty god, and he's
gonna whip those phoenicians, someday. Not today, or tomorrow, but in
many, many years from now when your kids, your grandkids, their kids
are all dead and gone. That's how powerful MY god is." ;-)
Sure that's what you want to say?
GLENN
but continued to maintain much of its commercial importance till the
Christian era. It is referred to in Matt. 11:21 and Acts 12:20.
JERRY
Which also means that the prophecy didn't come true. Remember the end
of the prophecy? The part where Yahweh would send "the deep" to come
and carry it away where it would never be seen again, ever? Didn't
happen.
In A.D. 1291 it was taken by the Saracens, and has remained a desolate
ruin ever since.
JERRY
Really, then how do you explain it's large population for such a small
island? (117k +)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre_(Lebanon)
Tyre (Arabic =D8=B5=D9=88=D8=B1 =E1=B9=A2=C5=ABr, Phoenician =E1=B9=A2ur, H=
ebrew =D7=A6=D7=95=D7=A8 Tzor, Tiberian Hebrew
=D7=A6=D7=A8 =E1=B9=A2=C5=8Dr, Akkadian =E1=B9=A2urru, Greek =CE=A4=CF=8D=
=CF=81=CE=BF=CF=82 T=C3=BDros) is a city in the South
Governorate of Lebanon. With 117,100 inhabitants, Tyre juts out from
the coast of the Mediterranean Sea and it is located about 80 km (50
mi) south of Beirut. The name of the city means "rock" [1]. The
adjective for Tyre is Tyrian, and the inhabitants are Tyrians.
When I point out the fallacies of your arguments, Carl, you are the
one who misrepresents.
I don't have to. I know what the bible says and don't have to read
into the text for what I want to see there.
GLENN
I agree with your idea -- but point out that having read what is in the
bible you can still arrive at a wrong conclusion about what you have read.
JERRY
Always possible, which is why reading the bible isn't enough. You
need to also research what you read in the bible. The problem is,
once you research what you read in the bible, you come to the
inescapable conclusion that the bible can't be true.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
07 Aug 2007 09:09:40 PM |
|
|
Carl wrote:
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when it
comes to the Holy Scriptures.
Yes, Carl, those who have exchanged posts with you recognize your basic
dishonesty and inability to comprehend Truth when it is presented to you.
Your delusion is so deep that you can not differentiate between what
some doctrine says the Bible says, and what the Word of God actually
does say.
Glenn
His witness
--
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
Note, the site at xprt.net will close 1Sept07 and open as
www.thelittlebookopened.org [Key words:] "The Little Book";
Glenn McClary, servitum, gaedhealic, oldwetdog
.
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
08 Aug 2007 06:33:46 PM |
|
|
In article <f9b8l501d2e@enews4.newsguy.com>, Glenn
<gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote:
Carl wrote:
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when it
comes to the Holy Scriptures.
Yes, Carl, those who have exchanged posts with you recognize your basic
dishonesty and inability to comprehend Truth when it is presented to you.
Your delusion is so deep that you can not differentiate between what
some doctrine says the Bible says, and what the Word of God actually
does say.
Absolutely
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
08 Aug 2007 11:35:16 PM |
|
|
In article <f9b7j8$1mv$1@news.utelfla.com>, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when it
comes to the Holy Scriptures. They have to lie, misrepresent and use all
sorts of deception to try to support their antiBiblical stances.
Wolf ended up back in the nuthouse
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "RedFox" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
08 Aug 2007 06:33:06 PM |
|
|
In article <f9b7j8$1mv$1@news.utelfla.com>, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when it
comes to the Holy Scriptures. They have to lie, misrepresent and use all
sorts of deception to try to support their antiBiblical stances. However
it's really no surprise since the source of all their antiBiblical stances
is the father of all lies, Satan.
For God Sake Carl
Go to a doctor and get some treatment for your appalling paranoia - it is
borderline psychotic
You need help
(You sound more like the Godawful John Wolf daily)
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Fox" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
07 Aug 2007 09:35:57 PM |
|
|
On Aug 7, 8:51 pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty
God abhors dishonesty and He abhors those
dishonest tactics used to try to bolster unBiblical teachings.
And when we...
do, it makes the heretics, false teachers and haters of God angry. I mean
spitting mad angry.
So "real Christians" in a real Christian church won't be angry but be
happy, right??
Its interesting that the article you posted had this to say:
Many times
across my career as a pastor, ...you don't even
know how to avoid the little white lie.
Gosh, a Christian pastor who doesn't know how to avoid lying.
Amazing.
It is unfortunate that churches throughout the history of Christianity ha=
ve
been characterized less by a spirit of grace toward one another than by a
spirit of condemnation.
It might be unfortunate but not surprising given Carl's attitude
toward people he doesn't agree with.
Carl, did you know you were merely carrying forward a long tradition
of Christian selfishness and condemnation?
When we come together with other Christians, there
are huge areas of our experience that we hide, because we are afraid that=
if
we are open and honest, what we reveal will somehow be used against us.
Yep, Carl again.
The
lack of grace in the church continues to cultivate the felt need for
dishonesty.
Still talking about Carl.
The last few months have been hard at our church. A lot of difficult
decisions have been made, and as a result people have been hurt, accusati=
ons
have been made, and there has been some real strain on the fellowship her=
e=2E
Gosh, the so called Christians aren't happy. What are they doing
wrong? They are lying and condemning. That's whats wrong.
Not surprising. Not surprising at all. Perhaps those "Christians"
should go easy on the accusations and get back to what Jesus teaches?
Copyright =A9 2004 Discovery Publishing, a ministry of Peninsula Bible Ch=
urch.
A copyright?? How industrial of you. I thought that Christian
churches were supposed to spread the words of God not restrict then
with copyrights.
come to think of it, after all the other selfish greed and arrogance I
have seen Christians display, this copyright is not very surprising at
all.
Yet at the beginning of this post Carl says its only the unbeliever
that is dishonest.
Holier than thou, Carl. Holier than thou.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Fox" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
07 Aug 2007 09:05:53 PM |
|
|
On Aug 7, 8:51 pm, "Carl" <sai...@nettally.com> wrote:
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when it
comes to the Holy Scriptures.
Gosh. all the people I have seen lying about God and Jesus have called
themselves Christians on Usenet and then rant on and on about cultists
and unbelievers.
Perhaps its not really "lying" if they are so deluded that they
actually believe it.
I can really relate to how much Jesus was irritated with people like
you who claim to know everything about God but yet Jesus had
tremendous patience and compassion with unbelievers and cultists and
heretics and prostitutes and tax collectors and (gasp) Samaritans.
When given the choice, I would have to choose Jesus' teachings over
your stuff since the two don't agree.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark T moi@herethereandeverywhere63" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
07 Aug 2007 09:09:01 PM |
|
|
"Mark Fox" wrote:
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when
it
comes to the Holy Scriptures.
Gosh. all the people I have seen lying about God and Jesus have called
themselves Christians on Usenet and then rant on and on about cultists
and unbelievers.
Perhaps its not really "lying" if they are so deluded that they
actually believe it.
I can really relate to how much Jesus was irritated with people like
you who claim to know everything about God but yet Jesus had
tremendous patience and compassion with unbelievers and cultists and
heretics and prostitutes and tax collectors and (gasp) Samaritans.
When given the choice, I would have to choose Jesus' teachings over
your stuff since the two don't agree.
--
"All things are probable. Try to believe." - Mark 17:1 (MTV)
"Really! Try to believe even if it's bloody stupid and irrational." - Mark
17:2 (MTV)
"Why? Because I said so, that's why! Don't ask questions. Just
believe." - Mark 17:3 (MTV)
--
"We're Christians! We're not supposed to think!" Fanny Wype ("Nudist Colony
Of The Dead")
--
Fundies can kiss my left behind! {_l_}
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: To Tell The Truth |
08 Aug 2007 09:12:56 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 21:51:35 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:
The heretics, cultists and unbelievers I have been encountering on Usenet
have one thing in common that I have noticed -- a marked dishonesty when it
comes to the Holy Scriptures. They have to lie, misrepresent and use all
sorts of deception to try to support their antiBiblical stances. However
it's really no surprise since the source of all their antiBiblical stances
is the father of all lies, Satan. God abhors dishonesty and He abhors those
dishonest tactics used to try to bolster unBiblical teachings. He warned us
as Christians to watch out for those who teach falsely and to reject utterly
those false teachings. He told us to study the Holy Scriptures so we would
be able to discern the counterfeit from the legitimate. And when we rightly
do, it makes the heretics, false teachers and haters of God angry. I mean
spitting mad angry. And that's because they can't handle the truth of God.
Danny Hall's sermon has to do with the topic of honesty, something that is
impossible for the antiBiblical crowd to exhibit. I urge my Christian
brethren to read this Biblically-based article.
May God bless,
Carl
One liar in particular I've noticed in here is John Weatherly.
He lied concerning Jesus.... he insisted Jesus baptized with water.
He insisted 'Jesus cursed people out' when He got angry... and of
course, look at the 'drunkard' nonsense where he claimed "Jesus
SLOSHED".....
He misconstrues Scripture, and fraudulently represents himself as 'an
ordained Pastor' as well as a 'psychologist'.
He tried to represent himself as 'The Holy Spirit' also, which he
denied, but again I proved by providing his post.
He advocates violence, adultery, gutter mouth, and lives to post idle
threats.
Still care to call him a 'Christian'???
Be VERY CAREFUL, Carl, that you don't allow yourself to be misled by
that charlatan.
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
TO TELL THE TRUTH
by Danny Hall
As I have been studying the Sermon on the Mount, I have been amazed at how
absolutely applicable it is to our contemporary society. It is as if Jesus
were looking down the corridor of time right to where we live when he was
speaking about these things. As the saying goes, the more things change, the
more they stay the same. Cultures and circumstances may change, but the
sinfulness of the human heart has never changed.
All kinds of things point to the fact that dishonesty is rampant in our
society. Here are a few examples:
Last week four men connected with BALCO Laboratories here in the Bay Area
were indicted for designing and distributing performance-enhancing steroids
to athletes. The most famous of their alleged clients was Barry Bonds,
although nothing has been proven about him personally. Performance-enhancing
drugs are intended for one thing: to enable athletes to cheat, to give them
an edge over their competitors. There is much money to be made both by those
selling the steroids and by the athletes who use them, as their statistics
go up and their value increases.
We are in the middle of the Martha Stewart trial, which is again about
cheating the system.
Recently there was a huge scandal at Saratoga High School about some
students' breaking in using some high-tech gizmos to steal answers to tests.
As we approach tax season it is a standard joke that people are not always
exactly honest on their income tax returns.
This is an election year, so we will be bombarded by promises and
accusations, a lot of truths and half-truths and no truth at all, all mixed
together in a frenzy of campaigning by candidates to get elected.
Besides all these big examples, there is the proverbial little white lie
that all of us every now and then reserve the right to use. Many times
across my career as a pastor, the question has come up, particularly with
other pastors, "How many people attend your church?" We pastors use
"ministerial math" and evangelistic crusade estimates to answer that
question. Somehow we are driven to present our church as being a little
better than the other guy's. And sometimes you are trapped; you don't even
know how to avoid the little white lie. Any of us who are husbands know what
it is like to have to answer the question, "Does this make me look fat?"
Part of our problem is that we have grown very comfortable with the shading
of the truth. We assume that everyone has an agenda through which they
filter truth. We call it spinning the truth in order to make it suit their
purposes, and that is somehow supposed to make it acceptable. We live in a
culture that really is characterized by dishonesty.
But this is nothing new. We're going to look at a passage that focuses on
similar issues that Jesus confronted in his day. Matthew 5:33-37:
Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, "You shall not make false
vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord." But I say to you, make no
oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth,
for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of
the great King. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make
one hair white or black. But let your statement be, "Yes, yes" or "No, no";
anything beyond these is of evil.
God values honesty
In order to understand what Jesus is talking about, we need to look at the
Old-Testament antecedents. The term "false vows" means perjury, deliberately
lying when others expect you to fulfill an oath. The term "fulfill your
vows" literally means to fence or box yourself in, to put a boundary around
yourself. So when you make an oath, you fence yourself in to tell the truth.
Oath-making has a lot of background in the Old-Testament Law. Leviticus
19:12 says, "You shall not swear falsely by My name, so as to profane the
name of your God; I am the Lord ." Numbers 30:2 says, "If a man makes a vow
to the Lord , or takes an oath to bind himself with a binding obligation, he
shall not violate his word; he shall do according to all that proceeds out
of his mouth." Deuteronomy 23:21-23 says, "When you make a vow to the L ord
your God, you shall not delay to pay it, for it would be sin in you, and the
L ord your God will surely require it of you. However, if you refrain from
vowing, it would not be sin in you. You shall be careful to perform what
goes out from your lips, just as you have voluntarily vowed to the L ord
your God, what you have promised." These Old-Testament antecedents to the
teaching of the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day all point to the fact
that God puts value on telling the truth.
The author of Hebrews reflects back on some of the Old-Testament oaths and
gives us some more insight into this matter. "For when God made the promise
to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,
saying, 'I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you.' And so,
having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. For men swear by one
greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an
end of every dispute. In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the
heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an
oath...." (Hebrews 6:13-17.)
To summarize, because of the human propensity to lie, God allowed oaths in
his name to add weight to a person's word in grave situations, to give a
sense of greater accountability for their word. Even God himself sometimes
made oaths, not because he ever lied, but to accentuate the gravity of the
situation. There are some things that need to transcend the normal human
tendency to deceive or to fudge the truth, and so oath-taking in the name of
the Lord was allowed among the people of Israel. Underneath that was God's
desire for us to be people of integrity, to fulfill our word.
But there was a problem that Jesus addresses in Matthew 5.
Jesus challenges cultural dishonesty
The Old-Testament instructions had been stretched into an elaborate system
of loopholes in the requirement to keep one's word. Notice this little
series of oaths he refers to: by heaven, by earth, by the city of Jerusalem,
even by their own head. A series of gradations of oaths had developed. They
could be more serious with some oaths and less serious with others. They had
taken the Old Testament allowances about swearing by God and his word and
twisted them. For instance, Leviticus 19:12 says not to swear falsely by the
Lord's name, but they took that to mean that they could swear falsely by
something other than the Lord's name. Numbers 30:2 says that if someone
makes an oath to God they must keep it, but they took that to mean that they
could renege on those made to anyone other than God. They could leave
themselves an out.
So people were managing the truth, if you will, coloring their relationships
with one another with varying levels of commitment to fulfill their promises
and vows. The result was a culture of deceit. Peter himself fell victim to
this temptation later in the gospel of Matthew. Having walked with Jesus
throughout his earthly ministry, Peter was fearful as Jesus was taken to
trial. Matthew 26:69-74 tells the story of Peter's denials of Jesus:
"Now Peter was sitting outside in the courtyard, and a servant-girl came to
him and said, 'You too were with Jesus the Galilean.' But he denied it
before them all, saying, 'I do not know what you are talking about.' When he
had gone out to the gateway, another servant-girl saw him and said to those
who were there, 'This man was with Jesus of Nazareth.' And again he denied
it with an oath, 'I do not know the man.' A little later the bystanders came
up and said to Peter, 'Surely you too are one of them; for even the way you
talk gives you away.' Then he began to curse and swear, 'I do not know the
man!'"
The word "swear" here is not the word for profanity; it is a strong word for
oath-taking. Reflecting the spirit of his culture, Peter invoked the regular
habit of swearing by something other than the name of God to try to lend
weight to his words, even in the moment when he knew in his heart that he
was deceiving. And of course, immediately after that, the rooster crowed and
Peter went and wept bitterly, for the prophecy that Jesus had given him came
true. He realized the deceitfulness in his heart and how he had abandoned
his Lord.
So what is Jesus' command in the midst of this elaborate system of deceit?
"I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne
of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by
Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you make an oath
by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black." What he is
saying is, whatever you swear on, everything in this creation is connected
to God, and it is silly to think that somehow you can make an oath by
something less than the name of God and then not keep it. So his command is
simply to stop it.
Now, how far do we take this? Based on the whole teaching of Scripture, it
seems unlikely that Jesus means to prohibit ever making any sort of oath or
vow in any place at any time, the way some have applied it. The Jehovah's
Witnesses refuse to take an oath when they testify in court and refuse to
say the Pledge of Allegiance, interpreting those things as violations of
this command. In Matthew 23:16 Jesus addresses the Pharisees and scribes and
takes up this same subject up again: "Woe to you, blind guides, who say,
'Whoever swears by the temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the
gold of the temple is obligated.'" He doesn't say, "Never make an oath." He
just says, "Let your words represent the truth."
What he is basically telling us is to break free from a system that
cultivates dishonesty and hypocrisy, to practice integrity in all things.
Notice the final way he says it: "But let your statement be, 'Yes, yes' or
'No, no.'" This is an emphatic way of saying, "Whatever comes out of your
mouth, let it be truthful. Do not hide behind even culturally accepted ways
of shading the truth." As followers of God, we are to step out of that
normal tendency. We are to be men and women of integrity who speak the truth
clearly to one another.
"Anything beyond these is of evil." This can also be translated, "of the
evil one." Satan is the father of lies, and from the very beginning, it has
been his strategy to deceive people, to distort God's word. The initial
temptation of Adam and Eve was based on a distortion of God's word, and out
of that he has continued to lie, twist the truth, and promote lying and
twisting of the truth. It is in this satanic stream of deception that you
and I live, but God calls us as his people to be committed to integrity,
through his grace and the power of the Holy Spirit working in us.
What does it mean to be people of integrity? Let me share three
implications.
Dishonesty assaults community
First, we must value what God values. This same point has come up in each of
the practical examples that Jesus has been giving us. First he dealt with
the issue of murder in 5:21-26 and told us that the whole idea is that God
values each and every human life, body and soul and spirit, and when we
speak cruelly or angrily or in a demeaning way, we are assaulting the soul
of one for whom Christ died and whom he loves unconditionally. Then in
5:27-32 we saw that adultery is an assault on something else God values:
marriage, and the picture of intimacy with God that it represents.
Now we see that dishonesty is assaulting community, which God values
greatly. Relationships cannot grow in a climate of dishonesty. Imagine
living in Jesus' day, in that highly regulated religious society. The
scribes and Pharisees had laid down these layers of minute applications of
the Law, exhorted people to follow them, and condemned those who did not.
This was supposed to be a unified culture of the people of God,
distinguished by love and forgiveness and glory and worship of God. Yet they
had evolved into this system of rules and regulations that permitted the
shading of the truth. Where is the sense of community in that? A lack of
openness and honesty is a direct assault on community. Community cannot
flourish where dishonesty reigns. Nothing hinders relationships more. So the
major implication of this passage is that you and I cannot live in
fellowship with one another as the people of God in a society or a group or
a church body that is characterized by shading of the truth, something less
than full openness in our relationships with each other.
A second implication of being people of integrity is that it falls to us to
demonstrate to this world the heart of God for community. Living in the
fractured society that ours is, part of being salt and light in this world
is to demonstrate that there is a better way than living for ourselves. One
of the ways we can demonstrate to our world the beauty of who Christ is and
his heart for people is learning to openly and honestly live with one
another, loving each other unconditionally, being vulnerable with each
other, cultivating honesty in our relationships with each other. The world
is hungry for this kind of community, and that is our calling as the
followers of Jesus.
A third implication is that nurturing honesty in the body of Christ requires
four things: grace, humility, vulnerability, and forgiveness.
It is unfortunate that churches throughout the history of Christianity have
been characterized less by a spirit of grace toward one another than by a
spirit of condemnation. When we come together with other Christians, there
are huge areas of our experience that we hide, because we are afraid that if
we are open and honest, what we reveal will somehow be used against us. The
lack of grace in the church continues to cultivate the felt need for
dishonesty.
To encourage honesty requires humility. I cannot walk into the fellowship of
this body or any group of people with a sense of arrogance or pride that
somehow I am better than the rest, or a sense that I have to present myself
that way.
We have to let ourselves become vulnerable. As long as I walk into this
community covered with layers of self-protection, wearing a mask of strength
that I don't really have, I contribute to the spirit of dishonesty and
detract from community. Now the reason we don't let ourselves become
vulnerable, as I said, is fear. Is it not tragic that one of the places in
our society where people feel least free to be totally honest is the church?
We can't open ourselves up and say, "These are all the things that are wrong
with me. I need the grace and love and strength of the community of faith."
Finally, we're going to hurt each other and fail each other. Even through
God's grace and the power of his Spirit, we are still in the process of
growing. We have not arrived. So we have to humbly and graciously forgive
one another.
There are a couple of superficial ways that we Christians consistently fail
to be honest. One is the way that we answer a common question, and the other
is a flippant statement that we often make. When we are asked, "How are you
doing?" we answer, "Fine." Perhaps with somebody we really trust we will
crack open a little bit: "It's been a tough week. You know how it goes." The
flippant statement we consistently make when we hear someone share a problem
is, "I'll pray for you." These are subtle ways of lying, but they permeate
the community. What would happen if we shared with each other how we are
really doing? What would happen if, when we said we would pray for each
other, we really did that? These are just two very simple things that are
part of the everyday course of relationships even in the body of Christ. If
we could alter these two things, maybe it would be a step toward true
community--true honesty, true vulnerability, taking off the masks, being
open with each other, demonstrating the beauty of the truth to a world that
is plagued by dishonesty. It is time for us as the people of God to
absolutely commit ourselves to each other.
Now, certainly people come from different backgrounds and have different
needs and preferences. There is not a simple solution to this. But to follow
Christ, to have his heart, we have to be committed to honesty in all things,
and we need to pray for God's healing, for the grace through his Spirit to
move toward that kind of honesty and vulnerability.
I invite you to join with me in prayer and reflection on God's call to us to
be a community of honest people who love each other unconditionally. Here
are some areas in our own community that we need to open up to the Lord
about:
To begin, what are the ways that you yourself shade the truth? How could you
be hindering relationships and growth because of your lack of honesty and
openness?
The last few months have been hard at our church. A lot of difficult
decisions have been | |
