Religions > Bible > Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"John the Baptist Jr." |
| Date: |
18 Jan 2006 03:12:11 AM |
| Object: |
Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others |
Alright everyone on the Internet I want you to hold onto your bibles and
repeat the following like you mean it.
This is my Bible
I am what it says I am
I have what it says I have
I can do what it says I can do
Today I will be taught the word of God
I boldly confess
That my mind is alert
My heart is receptive
and that I will never be the same.
In Jesus name
Amen
Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others
For this week the message will be practical application as already
hinted with the title. Iım sure that most of us have annoying people in
our lives that are difficult to deal with. Sometimes they are those that
are constantly finding all our faults (even sometimes in the areas of
Usenet grammar), people that cheat us, steal from us, lie about us, and
people that constantly criticize us. Friends I am guilty of all the
above. Recently I lied about Jason and have criticized him a number of
times. I am dreadfully sorry for my ungodly actions.
Back at Simpson I had a fair share of enemies. I did make many enemies
that did not like my strong stance for the truth, and strong opposition
to their liberal views, and this was to be expected as Jesus himself
made many enemies because of these reasons. But I will humbly say that
some of my enemies were there because of my own sinful un-christ like
behavior.
I remember one girl who rejected my being a member of her mission team
and was not very professional about the way she did it. Her
unprofessionalness and degrading of my personality and values in what
she labeled were factors to not hire me, made me very angry. So instead
of forgiving her I sought out revenge. Some two years after the conflict
I was expelled for a month. But praise the Lord for giving me another
chance, and for finishing school! When entering my last year things
looked quite bleak. I admit to 100% at fault in the predicament because
I had pestered and harassed this girl for 2 years so she claims.
Although I will admit that some of my jokes and behaviors she considered
harassment were considered normal around my other girl friends. I made
the mistake of not understanding Nicole. For example I expected to tease
Nicole the way I did Monica, Christine among others. But what I failed
to understand was that Nicole was not my friend, nor wanted anything to
do with me!
Nicole may have forgiven me but wanted the college to place a
restraining order on me after I returned from being expelled for a
month, but failed to get one because there was not substantial evidence
that I was a physical threat to her like she claimed. She then made
matters worse by filing a false report with one of her police friends at
the city PD claiming that I was following her around in my car. This was
quite absurd and had no factual basis whatsoever. I had eyewitnesses
that were ready to back me up encase the officer came (as he threatened
to do) to campus to talk with me. I notified the college of the false
charge and they could not do anything. But the Lord delivered me as
Nicole decided to leave the college.
Friends this was a very ugly situation. Both Nicole and I were at fault
that failed to forgive each other and set a very poor example to the
many freshmen that were involved in our lives by our childish antics.
Learning to forgive is hard yet the bile commands us to do so.
Matthew 6:14 (The Message)
14"In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you
do. You can't get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also
forgiving others.
Matthew 6:14 (Amplified Bible)
14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [a]reckless and
willful sins, [b]leaving them, letting them go, and [c]giving up
resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
I think the bible is very clear especially in the dynamic versions used
above. There comes a time and place for the dynamic translations, as
well as the literal translations.
Another predicament that I am in right know which is finding itself
difficult.
At the job there is a lady that has been nothing but a Saul to me. She
has hounded me for going on my legal breaks, she has called me harassing
names, and she has failed to respect my allergic conditions, among many
other things. Itıs been so hard dealing with her, but I think God put
her into my life to test my ability to forgive others. I tried to solve
the situation myself by offering a truce with her, but this did not
work, although she did agree to the truce, but failed to cary it out.
However what I failed to do was treat her the way David treated Saul.
David truly served Saul even though Saul was trying to kill him!
When Saul was in Davidıs cave, David did not seek justice.
1 Samuel 24:10-12 (New Living Translation)
10This very day you can see with your own eyes it isn't true. For the
LORD placed you at my mercy back there in the cave, and some of my men
told me to kill you, but I spared you. For I said, `I will never harm
him--he is the Lordıs anointed one.' 11Look, my father, at what I have
in my hand. It is a piece of your robe! I cut it off, but I didn't kill
you. This proves that I am not trying to harm you and that I have not
sinned against you, even though you have been hunting for me to kill me.
12The LORD will decide between us. Perhaps the LORD will punish you for
what you are trying to do to me, but I will never harm you.
Although I tried to make peace, I asked my employer to jump into the
situation and make peace between us but in response we were separated.
Perhaps this was the only resolution to the situation. Sometimes God
places us in these predicaments and wants us to trust him to be our
vindicator. Maybe God took me out of the situation because I could not
handle it, or maybe he wanted to protect me I donıt know. But I will say
that it is better to forgive rather than pursue justice and why I am
holding back a formal harassment claim against this lady, and will not
file one unless I absolutely must and that would be in the event of job
loss. In California employment is "At Will" and they do not need a valid
reason nor a reason to eliminate someone. This lady can simply say that
she wants me fired and it can happen, since she does have authority at
the job. But if this happens then I will file my harassment complaint,
but only as a last resort. Hopefully if it comes to that she will learn
that it is against the law to retaliate against a employee for taking
his legal breaks, she will learn that is wrong to call me harassing
names simply because I have a different personality and she will learn
that is wrong to slander employees as she has done with me on multiple
occasions.
But I believe that God wants to teach me to forgive those that have
offended me in the same way that heroıs in the bible did. Also note that
when Jesus went to the cross he forgave all who hurt him.
Luke 23:34 (Amplified Bible)
34And Jesus prayed, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they
do. And they divided His garments and distributed them by casting lots
for them.(A)
There is much more I could say and by no means am saying that this study
is completely inclusive for it was not intended as such.
God blesses!
John
--
John 1:6-9 There came a man who was sent from God;
his name was John. He came as a witness to testify
concerning that light, so that through him all men
might believe. He himself was not the light; he came
only as a witness to the light.
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
.
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| User: "Pulpitfire" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others |
18 Jan 2006 07:04:05 AM |
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John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
...This is my Bible
I am what it says I am...
So you watch Olsteen then?
Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others
Matthew 6:14 (The Message)...
1 Samuel 24:10-12 (New Living Translation)...
Luke 23:34 (Amplified Bible)...
Wow...a message on forgiveness, without a reference to Christ's death
and resurrection, or Ephesians 4:32. Christ's death and resurrection
is what gives us a just basis to forgive the sins of others, just as
God, for Christ's sake, has forgiven us (cf. Romans 3:24-26).
It's not like God forgives us as a reward for our forgiving others,
it's just that if you deny the value of Christ's atonement for the
offenses of others, then you deny it's value for your own sins as well.
.
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| User: "CaptainCatechism" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others |
18 Jan 2006 11:00:24 PM |
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Pulpitfire wrote:
John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
...This is my Bible
I am what it says I am...
So you watch Olsteen then?
Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others
Matthew 6:14 (The Message)...
1 Samuel 24:10-12 (New Living Translation)...
Luke 23:34 (Amplified Bible)...
Wow...a message on forgiveness, without a reference to Christ's death
and resurrection, or Ephesians 4:32. Christ's death and resurrection
is what gives us a just basis to forgive the sins of others, just as
God, for Christ's sake, has forgiven us (cf. Romans 3:24-26).
It's not like God forgives us as a reward for our forgiving others,
it's just that if you deny the value of Christ's atonement for the
offenses of others, then you deny it's value for your own sins as well.
Well said.... he kinda lost me with the Joel Osteen mantra...
.
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| User: "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others |
18 Jan 2006 05:19:29 AM |
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John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
Alright everyone on the Internet I want you to hold onto your bibles and
repeat the following like you mean it.
This is my Bible
I am what it says I am
I have what it says I have
I can do what it says I can do
Today I will be taught the word of God
I boldly confess
That my mind is alert
My heart is receptive
and that I will never be the same.
In Jesus name
Amen
Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others
For this week the message will be practical application as already
hinted with the title. I=B9m sure that most of us have annoying people in
our lives that are difficult to deal with. Sometimes they are those that
are constantly finding all our faults (even sometimes in the areas of
Usenet grammar), people that cheat us, steal from us, lie about us, and
people that constantly criticize us. Friends I am guilty of all the
above. Recently I lied about Jason and have criticized him a number of
times. I am dreadfully sorry for my ungodly actions.
Back at Simpson I had a fair share of enemies. I did make many enemies
that did not like my strong stance for the truth, and strong opposition
to their liberal views, and this was to be expected as Jesus himself
made many enemies because of these reasons. But I will humbly say that
some of my enemies were there because of my own sinful un-christ like
behavior.
I remember one girl who rejected my being a member of her mission team
and was not very professional about the way she did it. Her
unprofessionalness and degrading of my personality and values in what
she labeled were factors to not hire me, made me very angry. So instead
of forgiving her I sought out revenge. Some two years after the conflict
I was expelled for a month. But praise the Lord for giving me another
chance, and for finishing school! When entering my last year things
looked quite bleak. I admit to 100% at fault in the predicament because
I had pestered and harassed this girl for 2 years so she claims.
Although I will admit that some of my jokes and behaviors she considered
harassment were considered normal around my other girl friends. I made
the mistake of not understanding Nicole. For example I expected to tease
Nicole the way I did Monica, Christine among others. But what I failed
to understand was that Nicole was not my friend, nor wanted anything to
do with me!
Nicole may have forgiven me but wanted the college to place a
restraining order on me after I returned from being expelled for a
month, but failed to get one because there was not substantial evidence
that I was a physical threat to her like she claimed. She then made
matters worse by filing a false report with one of her police friends at
the city PD claiming that I was following her around in my car. This was
quite absurd and had no factual basis whatsoever. I had eyewitnesses
that were ready to back me up encase the officer came (as he threatened
to do) to campus to talk with me. I notified the college of the false
charge and they could not do anything. But the Lord delivered me as
Nicole decided to leave the college.
Friends this was a very ugly situation. Both Nicole and I were at fault
that failed to forgive each other and set a very poor example to the
many freshmen that were involved in our lives by our childish antics.
Learning to forgive is hard yet the bile commands us to do so.
Matthew 6:14 (The Message)
14"In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you
do. You can't get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also
forgiving others.
Matthew 6:14 (Amplified Bible)
14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [a]reckless and
willful sins, [b]leaving them, letting them go, and [c]giving up
resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
I think the bible is very clear especially in the dynamic versions used
above. There comes a time and place for the dynamic translations, as
well as the literal translations.
Another predicament that I am in right know which is finding itself
difficult.
At the job there is a lady that has been nothing but a Saul to me. She
has hounded me for going on my legal breaks, she has called me harassing
names, and she has failed to respect my allergic conditions, among many
other things. It=B9s been so hard dealing with her, but I think God put
her into my life to test my ability to forgive others. I tried to solve
the situation myself by offering a truce with her, but this did not
work, although she did agree to the truce, but failed to cary it out.
However what I failed to do was treat her the way David treated Saul.
David truly served Saul even though Saul was trying to kill him!
When Saul was in David=B9s cave, David did not seek justice.
1 Samuel 24:10-12 (New Living Translation)
10This very day you can see with your own eyes it isn't true. For the
LORD placed you at my mercy back there in the cave, and some of my men
told me to kill you, but I spared you. For I said, `I will never harm
him--he is the Lord=B9s anointed one.' 11Look, my father, at what I have
in my hand. It is a piece of your robe! I cut it off, but I didn't kill
you. This proves that I am not trying to harm you and that I have not
sinned against you, even though you have been hunting for me to kill me.
12The LORD will decide between us. Perhaps the LORD will punish you for
what you are trying to do to me, but I will never harm you.
Although I tried to make peace, I asked my employer to jump into the
situation and make peace between us but in response we were separated.
Perhaps this was the only resolution to the situation. Sometimes God
places us in these predicaments and wants us to trust him to be our
vindicator. Maybe God took me out of the situation because I could not
handle it, or maybe he wanted to protect me I don=B9t know. But I will say
that it is better to forgive rather than pursue justice and why I am
holding back a formal harassment claim against this lady, and will not
file one unless I absolutely must and that would be in the event of job
loss. In California employment is "At Will" and they do not need a valid
reason nor a reason to eliminate someone. This lady can simply say that
she wants me fired and it can happen, since she does have authority at
the job. But if this happens then I will file my harassment complaint,
but only as a last resort. Hopefully if it comes to that she will learn
that it is against the law to retaliate against a employee for taking
his legal breaks, she will learn that is wrong to call me harassing
names simply because I have a different personality and she will learn
that is wrong to slander employees as she has done with me on multiple
occasions.
But I believe that God wants to teach me to forgive those that have
offended me in the same way that hero=B9s in the bible did. Also note that
when Jesus went to the cross he forgave all who hurt him.
Luke 23:34 (Amplified Bible)
34And Jesus prayed, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they
do. And they divided His garments and distributed them by casting lots
for them.(A)
There is much more I could say and by no means am saying that this study
is completely inclusive for it was not intended as such.
God blesses!
John
--
John 1:6-9 There came a man who was sent from God;
his name was John. He came as a witness to testify
concerning that light, so that through him all men
might believe. He himself was not the light; he came
only as a witness to the light.
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
Amen and amen :-)
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name.
Amen !!!
Now this is about the works of the four horsemen from the 6th chapter
of the Book of Revelation (we are now in the 6th year into the third
millenium after the birth of the Son of Man):
(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:
"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to
sleep." - missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners
who gave up their lives to save the youngest among them after being
trapped by an explosion in a W.Va mine.
(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:
Ariel Sharon, the world's hope for lasting peace in the middle east,
suffers a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq
escalates. U.S. now less likely to pull out of Iraq anytime soon.
(3) Rider wielding a set of food scales and riding a black horse:
The rate of increase of the number of people worldwide using the
2PD-OMER Approach (which advocates the use of food scales) accelerates
with growing worldwide concerns about the obesity epidemic:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
Meanwhile, folks like Bob Pastorio who refuse to use this Approach are
heard muttering that an omer is not a weight measure but a volume
measure somewhere between one and three quarts depending on what the
food is and that liquid foods like milk (emulsified oil) and wine
should not be counted toward daily intake.
(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to kill a fourth of the
world's population "by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts
of the earth":
The H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic seems to be starting in Turkey:
http://tinyurl.com/amj4a
Yes, the migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.
When will the sun "turn black like sackcloth made of goat hair"
(Revelation 6:12b) ?
It will turn black during the total solar eclipse that will happen
**also** in Turkey on Wednesday 03/29/2006 at around 14:00 hrs LT.
http://tinyurl.com/dcj7w
The order of darkening of the following ancient cities in Turkey:
(1) Ephesus
(2) Smyrna
(3) Pergamum
(4) Thyatira
(5) Sardis
(6) Philadelphia
(7) Laodicea
Will be the same order that Christ Jesus used to address the seven
churches:
"Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to
Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyratira, Sardis, Philadelphia and
Laodicea." (Revelation 1:11)
Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
like cardiology, diabetes, cooking and nutrition that interest those
following this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/19/06) from
6 to 7 pm EST:
http://tinyurl.com/cpayh
For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for
how the LORD has reshaped me:
http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt
Prayerfully in Christ's love,=20
Andrew=20
http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
.
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| User: "Ian Zech" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others |
18 Jan 2006 06:48:36 AM |
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"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nospam8@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
news:1137583169.319912.165990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
Alright everyone on the Internet I want you to hold onto your bibles and
repeat the following like you mean it.
This is my Bible
I am what it says I am
I have what it says I have
I can do what it says I can do
Today I will be taught the word of God
I boldly confess
That my mind is alert
My heart is receptive
and that I will never be the same.
In Jesus name
Amen
Bible, I worship you. I love you.
Repeat after me. I am what it says I am. I feel sleepy, after three, I will
fall asleep. 1, 2, 3. I'm asleep.
Amen !!!
Now this is about the works of the four horsemen from the 6th chapter
of the Book of Revelation ...
In which race? The 6th., thanks for the tip.
.
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| User: "Andrew" |
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| Title: Re: 6th seal possibly in less than a few months |
18 Jan 2006 09:34:34 AM |
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"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote in message
news:1137583169.319912.165990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name...
I don't know how you come to this interpretation, but you may be
interested to know that the campaign against Iran IS scheduled for
late March - if carried out would have significant far reaching, neg-
ative consequences. http://www.participate.net/node/964
Andrew H.
.
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| User: "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" |
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| Title: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
18 Jan 2006 08:21:49 PM |
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Andrew wrote:
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote in message
news:1137583169.319912.165990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name...
I don't know how you come to this interpretation, but you may be
interested to know that the campaign against Iran IS scheduled for
late March - if carried out would have significant far reaching, neg-
ative consequences. http://www.participate.net/node/964
Andrew H.
The use of nuclear warheads could certainly cause a global earthquake.
Now this is about the works of the four horsemen from the 6th chapter
of the Book of Revelation (we are now in the 6th year into the third
millenium after the birth of the Son of Man)
(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:
"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to
sleep." - missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners
who gave up their lives to save the youngest among them after being
trapped by an explosion in a W.Va mine.
(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:
Ariel Sharon, the world's hope for lasting peace in the middle east,
has suffered a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq
escalates. U.S. now less likely to pull out of Iraq anytime soon.
(3) Rider wielding a set of food scales and riding a black horse:
The rate of increase of the number of people worldwide using the
2PD-OMER Approach (which advocates the use of food scales) accelerates
with growing worldwide concerns about the obesity epidemic:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
Meanwhile, folks like Bob Pastorio who refuse to use this Approach are
heard muttering that an omer is not a weight measure but a volume
measure somewhere between one and three quarts depending on what the
food is and that liquid foods like milk (emulsified oil) and wine
should not be counted toward daily intake.
(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to kill a fourth of the
world's population "by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts
of the earth":
The H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic seems to be starting in Turkey:
http://tinyurl.com/amj4a
Yes, the migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.
When will the sun "turn black like sackcloth made of goat hair"
(Revelation 6:12b) ?
It will turn black during the total solar eclipse that will happen
**also** in Turkey on Wednesday 03/29/2006 at around 14:00 hrs LT.
http://tinyurl.com/dcj7w
The order of darkening of the following cities in Turkey:
(1) Ephesus
(2) Smyrna
(3) Pergamum
(4) Thyatira
(5) Sardis
(6) Philadelphia
(7) Laodicea
Is the same order that Christ Jesus addresses the seven churches:
"Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to
Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyratira, Sardis, Philadelphia and
Laodicea." (Revelation 1:11)
Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
like cardiology, diabetes, cooking, and nutrition that interest those
following this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/12/2006)
from 6 to 7 pm EST:
http://tinyurl.com/cpayh
For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for
how the LORD has reshaped me:
http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt
Prayerfully in Christ's love,
Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
.
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| User: "Bob this one" |
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| Title: Re: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
18 Jan 2006 10:54:20 PM |
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Andrew wrote:
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote in message
news:1137583169.319912.165990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name...
I don't know how you come to this interpretation, but you may be
interested to know that the campaign against Iran IS scheduled for
late March - if carried out would have significant far reaching, neg-
ative consequences. http://www.participate.net/node/964
A wonderfully authoritative web site. <LOL>
The use of nuclear warheads could certainly cause a global earthquake.
More junk "science" from the Mighty Chung. How many nuclear fission and
fusion devices have been exploded by now - all over the world?
Ooooops. No earthquakes.
The Wizard of "discernment" knows almost as much about geology as he
does ancient weights and measures. Bwah...
Pastorio
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
19 Jan 2006 12:09:03 AM |
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Now this is about the works of the four horsemen from the 6th chapter
of the Book of Revelation (we are now in the 6th year into the third
millenium after the birth of the Son of Man)
(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:
"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to
sleep." - missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners
who gave up their lives to save the youngest among them after being
trapped by an explosion in a W.Va mine.
(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:
Dr. Chung, is this your signature that keeps repeating this stuff, or
are you just reposting the same message over and over again?
.
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| User: "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" |
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| Title: Re: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
19 Jan 2006 12:41:16 AM |
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wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Now this is about the works of the four horsemen from the 6th chapter
of the Book of Revelation (we are now in the 6th year into the third
millenium after the birth of the Son of Man)
(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:
"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to
sleep." - missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners
who gave up their lives to save the youngest among them after being
trapped by an explosion in a W.Va mine.
(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:
Dr. Chung, is this your signature that keeps repeating this stuff, or
are you just reposting the same message over and over again?
Neither. The LORD continues to guide me in everything I say, do, and
write.
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name.
Amen !!!
Notice the works of the four horsemen from the 6th chapter of the Book
of Revelation (we are now in the 6th year into the third millenium
after the birth of the Son of Man):
(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:
"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to
sleep." - missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners
who gave up their lives to save the youngest among them after being
trapped by an explosion in a W.Va mine.
(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:
Ariel Sharon, the world's hope for lasting peace in the middle east,
suffers a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq
escalates. U.S. now less likely to pull out of Iraq anytime soon.
Meanwhile, Iran wants a nuclear weapons program.
(3) Rider wielding a set of food scales and riding a black horse:
The rate of increase of the number of people worldwide using the
2PD-OMER Approach (which advocates the use of food scales) accelerates
with growing worldwide concerns about the obesity epidemic:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
Meanwhile, folks like Bob Pastorio who refuse to use this Approach are
heard muttering that an omer is not a weight measure but a volume
measure somewhere between one and three quarts depending on what the
food is and that liquid foods like milk (emulsified oil) and wine
should not be counted toward daily intake.
(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to kill a fourth of the
world's population "by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts
of the earth":
The H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic seems to be starting in Turkey:
http://tinyurl.com/amj4a
Yes, the migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.
When will the sun "turn black like sackcloth made of goat hair"
(Revelation 6:12b) ?
It will turn black during the total solar eclipse that will happen
**also** in Turkey on Wednesday 03/29/2006 at around 14:00 hrs LT.
http://tinyurl.com/dcj7w
The order of darkening of the following ancient cities in Turkey:
(1) Ephesus
(2) Smyrna
(3) Pergamum
(4) Thyatira
(5) Sardis
(6) Philadelphia
(7) Laodicea
Will be the same order that Christ Jesus used to address the seven
churches:
"Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to
Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyratira, Sardis, Philadelphia and
Laodicea." (Revelation 1:11)
Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
like cardiology, diabetes, cooking and nutrition that interest those
following this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/19/06) from
6 to 7 pm EST:
http://tinyurl.com/cpayh
For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for
how the LORD has reshaped me:
http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt
Prayerfully in Christ's love,
Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
.
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| User: "Bob this one" |
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| Title: Re: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
19 Jan 2006 12:58:46 AM |
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
altbible@gmail.com wrote:
Dr. Chung, is this your signature that keeps repeating this stuff, or
are you just reposting the same message over and over again?
Neither. The LORD continues to guide me in everything I say, do, and
write.
Got it? Clear now who and what you're dealing with? Chung can make no
mistakes because, as he says, "The LORD continues to guide me in
everything I say, do, and write," and that makes it all be absolutely
without flaw. He makes no mistakes, tells no lies, impugns no one...
he's divinely guided in *everything*, he says....
Except when he makes mistakes.
Pastorio
.
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| User: "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" |
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| Title: Re: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
19 Jan 2006 01:03:33 AM |
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Bob (this one) wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
altbible@gmail.com wrote:
Dr. Chung, is this your signature that keeps repeating this stuff, or
are you just reposting the same message over and over again?
Neither. The LORD continues to guide me in everything I say, do, and
write.
Got it?
Been had it :-)
May the LORD continue to use me in a mighty way :-))
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name.
Amen !!!
Now this is about the works of the four horsemen from the 6th chapter
of the Book of Revelation (we are now in the 6th year into the third
millenium after the birth of the Son of Man):
(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:
"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to
sleep." - missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners
who gave up their lives to save the youngest among them after being
trapped by an explosion in a W.Va mine.
(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:
Ariel Sharon, the world's hope for lasting peace in the middle east,
suffers a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq
escalates. U.S. now less likely to pull out of Iraq anytime soon.
(3) Rider wielding a set of food scales and riding a black horse:
The rate of increase of the number of people worldwide using the
2PD-OMER Approach (which advocates the use of food scales) accelerates
with growing worldwide concerns about the obesity epidemic:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
Meanwhile, folks like Bob Pastorio who refuse to use this Approach are
heard muttering that an omer is not a weight measure but a volume
measure somewhere between one and three quarts depending on what the
food is and that liquid foods like milk (emulsified oil) and wine
should not be counted toward daily intake.
(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to kill a fourth of the
world's population "by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts
of the earth":
The H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic seems to be starting in Turkey:
http://tinyurl.com/amj4a
Yes, the migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.
When will the sun "turn black like sackcloth made of goat hair"
(Revelation 6:12b) ?
It will turn black during the total solar eclipse that will happen
**also** in Turkey on Wednesday 03/29/2006 at around 14:00 hrs LT.
http://tinyurl.com/dcj7w
The order of darkening of the following ancient cities in Turkey:
(1) Ephesus
(2) Smyrna
(3) Pergamum
(4) Thyatira
(5) Sardis
(6) Philadelphia
(7) Laodicea
Will be the same order that Christ Jesus used to address the seven
churches:
"Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to
Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyratira, Sardis, Philadelphia and
Laodicea." (Revelation 1:11)
Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
like cardiology, diabetes, cooking and nutrition that interest those
following this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/19/06) from
6 to 7 pm EST:
http://tinyurl.com/cpayh
For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for
how the LORD has reshaped me:
http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt
Prayerfully in Christ's love,
Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
.
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| User: "Bob this one" |
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| Title: Re: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
19 Jan 2006 01:52:34 AM |
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Bob (this one) wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
altbible@gmail.com wrote:
Dr. Chung, is this your signature that keeps repeating this stuff, or
are you just reposting the same message over and over again?
Neither.
<LOL> Nothing evasive about Chung, huh...?
The LORD continues to guide me in everything I say, do, and
write.
Got it?
Been had it :-)
May the LORD continue to use me in a mighty way :-))
Nice pair of grinnies you have there, Andrew. But I bet all the boys say
that to you.
But what can "Been had it :-)" mean if it were translated into English?
Looks like you're not being used in any mighty language way. But that's
nothing new...
So eager to post that sense and nonsense vie for supremacy. Nonsense
almost always wins... Like here.
Pastorio
.
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| User: "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" |
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| Title: Re: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
19 Jan 2006 02:22:12 AM |
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Bob (this one) wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Bob (this one) wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
altbible@gmail.com wrote:
Dr. Chung, is this your signature that keeps repeating this stuff, or
are you just reposting the same message over and over again?
Neither.
<LOL>
"Written laughter is silent despair."
Without the LORD, there will be only despair.
For this, you will be in my prayers, dear Bob whom I love.
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name.
Amen !!!
Now this is about the works of the four horsemen from the 6th chapter
of the Book of Revelation (we are now in the 6th year into the third
millenium after the birth of the Son of Man):
(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:
"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to
sleep." - missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners
who gave up their lives to save the youngest among them after being
trapped by an explosion in a W.Va mine.
(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:
Ariel Sharon, the world's hope for lasting peace in the middle east,
suffers a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq
escalates. U.S. now less likely to pull out of Iraq anytime soon.
(3) Rider wielding a set of food scales and riding a black horse:
The rate of increase of the number of people worldwide using the
2PD-OMER Approach (which advocates the use of food scales) accelerates
with growing worldwide concerns about the obesity epidemic:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
Meanwhile, folks like Bob Pastorio who refuse to use this Approach are
heard muttering that an omer is not a weight measure but a volume
measure somewhere between one and three quarts depending on what the
food is and that liquid foods like milk (emulsified oil) and wine
should not be counted toward daily intake.
(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to kill a fourth of the
world's population "by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts
of the earth":
The H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic seems to be starting in Turkey:
http://tinyurl.com/amj4a
Yes, the migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.
When will the sun "turn black like sackcloth made of goat hair"
(Revelation 6:12b) ?
It will turn black during the total solar eclipse that will happen
**also** in Turkey on Wednesday 03/29/2006 at around 14:00 hrs LT.
http://tinyurl.com/dcj7w
The order of darkening of the following ancient cities in Turkey:
(1) Ephesus
(2) Smyrna
(3) Pergamum
(4) Thyatira
(5) Sardis
(6) Philadelphia
(7) Laodicea
Will be the same order that Christ Jesus used to address the seven
churches:
"Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to
Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyratira, Sardis, Philadelphia and
Laodicea." (Revelation 1:11)
Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
like cardiology, diabetes, cooking and nutrition that interest those
following this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/19/06) from
6 to 7 pm EST:
http://tinyurl.com/cpayh
For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for
how the LORD has reshaped me:
http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt
Prayerfully in Christ's love,
Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
.
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| User: "Pulpitfire" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others |
18 Jan 2006 07:31:16 AM |
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|
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Amen and amen :-)
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name...
I believe the church will not go through the Tribulation, and that we
should comfort one another with this hope, for the following reasons:
1) Because the rapture is not part of the Day of the Lord.
In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Paul has to educate them about the rapture
of the church, and our being caught up together with Him in the air.
By sharp contrast ("But") to the events of this rapture, he tells them
they already knew full well about the events of the "day of the
Lord"--the time when Tribulation judgment would fall on the inhabitants
of the earth.
It seems the only way they could know full well about the events of the
day of judgment, and not know about the rapture of the church, is if
the rapture of the church is not part of the events of the Tribulation,
in Scripture.
2) Because we'ere supposed to comfort one another with the hope of the
rapture (1 Thess. 4:18).
It would be hard to imagine "these words" as being a "comfort", if the
Thessalonians thought they'd have to endure the Tribulation before they
would get raptured.
3) Because we are not children of darkness (1 Thess. 5:5).
Regarding those events of the day of the Lord's judgment, Paul said
church age believers are not children of darkness, that the day of the
Lord should overtake them like a thief. It is the children of
darkness, and not children of light, who are overtaken, like a thief,
by the day of the Lord's judgment (5:4-5). It is when "they" (not
"you") say "peace and safety", that destruction shall come upon "them".
4) Because God has not appointed us to wrath (1 Thess. 5:8-10).
In contrast to the drunken sleepers who will be overtaken like a thief
by the day of the Lord's judgment, we, who are sober, are supposed to
put on for a helmet, the "hope of salvation". Why? Because God has
"NOT [emphasis mine] appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by
our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with him." This knowledge is supposed to be a
comfort, regarding not only those who sleep in Christ, but also the day
of the Lord's judgment. Whether we are alive or dead, we will be with
the Lord, and not experiencing the wrath of God that falls on the
drunken sleepers who are children of darkness (cf. Ephesians
5:8,13,14).
Now, the whole contextof this passageis talking about the Day of the
Lord, when the children of darkness will be overtaken, but the children
of light will not. The immediate context refers to the Tribulation.
So when it then says we are not children of darkness, that that day
should overtake us, and that we should put on for an helmet, the hope
of salvation, it is talking about salvation not only from eternal
death, but from the events of the Day of the Lord which it has just
been talking about.
5) Because the rapture assures us we have not entered the Tribulation
(2 Thess. 2)
The Thessalonians were troubled by the thought that maybe they had
already entered the day of Tribulation. Paul besought them by the hope
of the "coming of our Lord
Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto Him", that they had not
already entered the day of Christ's judgment (2 Thess 2:1-2). This
prospect of the coming of the Lord, and gathering of the saints to be
with Him, would not be a proof for them, that they had not entered the
Tribulation, if they had to endure the entire, or even part of the
Tribulation, before they were gathered to the Lord. They could not
have entered the time of judgment (and neither could we), becuase the
gathering of church age saints (whether they sleep or are alive) to the
Lord will occur first, and this is the hope by which Paul besought
them.
6) Because God promised to deliver the church from the hour of
Tribulation (Revelation 3:10)
In Revelation 3:10, God promises to deliver the church from the very
hour in which the testing occurs for "them that dwell upon the earth".
How can they be delivered from testing that falls on earth dwellers,
and from the very hour in which the testing occurs, if they still dwell
on earth, or in a realm where earth time applies? Apparently, the
church will not dwell on earth during the hour the testing occurs.
This truth applies to whomever "has an ear" in the "churches" (v13).
7) Because John was raptured before the "things which shall be
hereafter" (Rev 4:1)
When John concludes the letters to the churches (cf. "the things which
are" Rev. 1:19),
and before he sees the things which shall be "hereafter", he is called
up into heaven, from earth (4:1). It is not until he is in heaven that
he sees the judgments which shall be "hereafter", falling on "them who
dwell on the earth". This is in keeping with the concept that the time
of judgment that falls on the earth is not part of "the things which
are"
(church age), but the things which shall be "hereafter" the church age,
and that the church (like John was), will be caught up into heaven
before the judgments fall on earth dwellers.
8) Because Tribulation saints are not the "church".
Revelation 1-3 addresses believers as the "church" something
like 19 times before Revelation 4 refers to the judgments which shall
be
"hereafter" begin to fall on the inhabitants of the earth. Then,
during the time of the Tribulation, instantly believers are referred to
only by
terms like "saints", and there is not one reference to the "church".
Israel, and the 144,000 chosen from the twelve tribes are the subjets
of God's sealing during that time, and not the church (cf. Revelation
12).
Now, is it just a coincidence Revelation refers to church age
believers, during the "things which are", as the "church" 19 times, and
then instantly stops calling believers the "church" once John is
raptured to heaven and the "things which shall be hereafter" begin? It
seems highly unlikely to me.
I don't believe God has appointed the church to the wrath which Paul
said would overtake the children of darkeness during the "day of the
Lord" (1 Thess. 5), but to salvation, through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul beseeches us, by the hope of our gathering to the Lord, not to
think we have entered into the day of the Lord, and exhorts us to
comfort one another with the hope of being raptured.
.
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| User: "Ian Zech" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others |
18 Jan 2006 07:43:43 AM |
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"Pulpitfire" <altbible@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137591076.328250.128910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Amen and amen :-)
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name...
I believe the church will not go through the Tribulation, and that we
should comfort one another with this hope, for the following reasons:
"We are not so optimistic as to think that any amount of common sense words
on the Apocalypse will keep it from being misused by those who have made it
(or rather, their misunderstanding of it) the essence of their religion and
life. It has too long afforded curious souls that thrill of "sacred
fortune-telling" by juggling the numbers and symbols which they do not in
the least understand, making them mean what they want them to mean, and then
confidently serving the result up as "God's word." It has been too long a
gold mine for the lunatic fringe, the idle, the curious, those who are more
interested in their neighbors' sins than their own, and those who have a
singular pleasure in thinking themselves irremediably "saved" while a
countless number of their fellow men are irremediably "lost," for all this
to be given up without a struggle. The Apocalypse will continue, probably
until the end of time, to be a writing "which the ignorant and unstable
twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures"
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message- Learning how to forgive others |
18 Jan 2006 11:49:14 AM |
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Ian Zech wrote:
"We are not so optimistic as to think that any amount of common sense words
on the Apocalypse will keep it from being misused by those who have made it
(or rather, their misunderstanding of it) the essence of their religion and
life. It has too long afforded curious souls that thrill of "sacred
fortune-telling" by juggling the numbers and symbols which they do not in
the least understand, making them mean what they want them to mean, and then
confidently serving the result up as "God's word." It has been too long a
gold mine for the lunatic fringe, the idle, the curious, those who are more
interested in their neighbors' sins than their own, and those who have a
singular pleasure in thinking themselves irremediably "saved" while a
countless number of their fellow men are irremediably "lost," for all this
to be given up without a struggle. The Apocalypse will continue, probably
until the end of time, to be a writing "which the ignorant and unstable
twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures"
I take that to mean you understand the folly of trying to predict dates
and events that fulfill the prophecies of Revelation, and not that we
shouldn't seek a Biblical understanding of who is going to experience
the Tribulation.
.
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| User: "Ian Zech" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message-There are no unfulfilled biblical predictions. (was Re: Learning how to forgive others). |
18 Jan 2006 03:31:28 PM |
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<altbible@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137606554.913064.71780@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Ian Zech wrote:
"We are not so optimistic as to think that any amount of common sense
words
on the Apocalypse will keep it from being misused by those who have made
it
(or rather, their misunderstanding of it) the essence of their religion
and
life. It has too long afforded curious souls that thrill of "sacred
fortune-telling" by juggling the numbers and symbols which they do not in
the least understand, making them mean what they want them to mean, and
then
confidently serving the result up as "God's word." It has been too long a
gold mine for the lunatic fringe, the idle, the curious, those who are
more
interested in their neighbors' sins than their own, and those who have a
singular pleasure in thinking themselves irremediably "saved" while a
countless number of their fellow men are irremediably "lost," for all
this
to be given up without a struggle. The Apocalypse will continue, probably
until the end of time, to be a writing "which the ignorant and unstable
twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures"
I take that to mean you understand the folly of trying to predict dates
and events that fulfill the prophecies of Revelation, and not that we
shouldn't seek a Biblical understanding of who is going to experience
the Tribulation.
Revelation is a message of hope not a book of predictions. It's a stupidity
to try to predict the future using the Bible, it amounts to sacred fortune
telling. There will be no Rapture, no Tribulation, no Second Coming, no
Millenium. We will all die, those now living and those not yet born. If
unfulfilled prophecies are found in the Bible, it must be understood that
they are not prophecies, (predictions). Those who pretend that there are
such unfulfilled prophecies in Daniel applicable to this planet, they are
charlatan. All Futurists are liars.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message-There are no unfulfilled biblical predictions. (was Re: Learning how to forgive others). |
19 Jan 2006 12:10:28 AM |
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Ian Zech wrote:
...There will be no Rapture, no Tribulation, no Second Coming, no
Millenium. We will all die, those now living and those not yet born. If
unfulfilled prophecies are found in the Bible, it must be understood that
they are not prophecies, (predictions). Those who pretend that there are
such unfulfilled prophecies in Daniel applicable to this planet, they are
charlatan. All Futurists are liars.
Oh, I see. You have no hope.
.
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| User: "Ian Zech" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message-There are no unfulfilled biblical predictions. (was Re: Learning how to forgive others). |
19 Jan 2006 06:27:34 AM |
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<altbible@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137651027.960202.247640@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Ian Zech wrote:
...There will be no Rapture, no Tribulation, no Second Coming, no
Millenium. We will all die, those now living and those not yet born. If
unfulfilled prophecies are found in the Bible, it must be understood that
they are not prophecies, (predictions). Those who pretend that there are
such unfulfilled prophecies in Daniel applicable to this planet, they are
charlatan. All Futurists are liars.
Oh, I see. You have no hope.
Should I be hoping for a Rapture, Tribulations, a Second Coming or a
Millenium? I'm not that stupid. Did you put your hope in that stuff? I bet
you call that 'Christian Faith', don't you?
.
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| User: "Never anonymous Bud" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message-There are no unfulfilled biblical predictions. (was Re: Learning how to forgive others). |
19 Jan 2006 08:24:26 AM |
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On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 07:27:34 -0500, "Ian Zech" <Get@education.com> wrote:
Should I be hoping for a Rapture, Tribulations, a Second Coming or a
Millenium?
If you ask for a 'second coming', you may suffer tribulations
well into the next millennium, OR you may experience rapture.
And I'm NOT talking religion here!
Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.
This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity...
Remove XYZ to email me
.
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| User: "Ian Zech" |
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| Title: Re: Topical Bible Message-There are no unfulfilled biblical predictions. (was Re: Learning how to forgive others). |
19 Jan 2006 09:05:42 AM |
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"Never anonymous Bud" <newskat@katxyzkave.net> wrote in message
news:q68vs1hcl0948kea11lljuc7b46m74h6ia@4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 07:27:34 -0500, "Ian Zech" <Get@education.com> wrote:
Should I be hoping for a Rapture, Tribulations, a Second Coming or a
Millenium?
If you ask for a 'second coming', you may suffer tribulations
well into the next millennium, OR you may experience rapture.
And I'm NOT talking religion here!
I won't see the next millennium and most others posting on these Newsgroups
won't either. As to the Second Coming, those who believe Jesus is the
Christ, will obviously meet him sooner or later. Truth is he won't come to
them, they will have to go to him. When one is oppressed by sickness, that
person experiences tribulations, when relieved from it she is raptured. That
is when we return our carcassess to mother earth.
.
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| User: "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" |
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| Title: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
18 Jan 2006 07:50:53 AM |
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Pulpitfire wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Amen and amen :-)
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name...
I believe the church will not go through the Tribulation, and that we
should comfort one another with this hope, for the following reasons:
1) Because the rapture is not part of the Day of the Lord.
In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Paul has to educate them about the rapture
of the church, and our being caught up together with Him in the air.
By sharp contrast ("But") to the events of this rapture, he tells them
they already knew full well about the events of the "day of the
Lord"--the time when Tribulation judgment would fall on the inhabitants
of the earth.
It seems the only way they could know full well about the events of the
day of judgment, and not know about the rapture of the church, is if
the rapture of the church is not part of the events of the Tribulation,
in Scripture.
2) Because we'ere supposed to comfort one another with the hope of the
rapture (1 Thess. 4:18).
It would be hard to imagine "these words" as being a "comfort", if the
Thessalonians thought they'd have to endure the Tribulation before they
would get raptured.
3) Because we are not children of darkness (1 Thess. 5:5).
Regarding those events of the day of the Lord's judgment, Paul said
church age believers are not children of darkness, that the day of the
Lord should overtake them like a thief. It is the children of
darkness, and not children of light, who are overtaken, like a thief,
by the day of the Lord's judgment (5:4-5). It is when "they" (not
"you") say "peace and safety", that destruction shall come upon "them".
4) Because God has not appointed us to wrath (1 Thess. 5:8-10).
In contrast to the drunken sleepers who will be overtaken like a thief
by the day of the Lord's judgment, we, who are sober, are supposed to
put on for a helmet, the "hope of salvation". Why? Because God has
"NOT [emphasis mine] appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by
our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with him." This knowledge is supposed to be a
comfort, regarding not only those who sleep in Christ, but also the day
of the Lord's judgment. Whether we are alive or dead, we will be with
the Lord, and not experiencing the wrath of God that falls on the
drunken sleepers who are children of darkness (cf. Ephesians
5:8,13,14).
Now, the whole contextof this passageis talking about the Day of the
Lord, when the children of darkness will be overtaken, but the children
of light will not. The immediate context refers to the Tribulation.
So when it then says we are not children of darkness, that that day
should overtake us, and that we should put on for an helmet, the hope
of salvation, it is talking about salvation not only from eternal
death, but from the events of the Day of the Lord which it has just
been talking about.
5) Because the rapture assures us we have not entered the Tribulation
(2 Thess. 2)
The Thessalonians were troubled by the thought that maybe they had
already entered the day of Tribulation. Paul besought them by the hope
of the "coming of our Lord
Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto Him", that they had not
already entered the day of Christ's judgment (2 Thess 2:1-2). This
prospect of the coming of the Lord, and gathering of the saints to be
with Him, would not be a proof for them, that they had not entered the
Tribulation, if they had to endure the entire, or even part of the
Tribulation, before they were gathered to the Lord. They could not
have entered the time of judgment (and neither could we), becuase the
gathering of church age saints (whether they sleep or are alive) to the
Lord will occur first, and this is the hope by which Paul besought
them.
6) Because God promised to deliver the church from the hour of
Tribulation (Revelation 3:10)
In Revelation 3:10, God promises to deliver the church from the very
hour in which the testing occurs for "them that dwell upon the earth".
How can they be delivered from testing that falls on earth dwellers,
and from the very hour in which the testing occurs, if they still dwell
on earth, or in a realm where earth time applies? Apparently, the
church will not dwell on earth during the hour the testing occurs.
This truth applies to whomever "has an ear" in the "churches" (v13).
7) Because John was raptured before the "things which shall be
hereafter" (Rev 4:1)
When John concludes the letters to the churches (cf. "the things which
are" Rev. 1:19),
and before he sees the things which shall be "hereafter", he is called
up into heaven, from earth (4:1). It is not until he is in heaven that
he sees the judgments which shall be "hereafter", falling on "them who
dwell on the earth". This is in keeping with the concept that the time
of judgment that falls on the earth is not part of "the things which
are"
(church age), but the things which shall be "hereafter" the church age,
and that the church (like John was), will be caught up into heaven
before the judgments fall on earth dwellers.
8) Because Tribulation saints are not the "church".
Revelation 1-3 addresses believers as the "church" something
like 19 times before Revelation 4 refers to the judgments which shall
be
"hereafter" begin to fall on the inhabitants of the earth. Then,
during the time of the Tribulation, instantly believers are referred to
only by
terms like "saints", and there is not one reference to the "church".
Israel, and the 144,000 chosen from the twelve tribes are the subjets
of God's sealing during that time, and not the church (cf. Revelation
12).
Now, is it just a coincidence Revelation refers to church age
believers, during the "things which are", as the "church" 19 times, and
then instantly stops calling believers the "church" once John is
raptured to heaven and the "things which shall be hereafter" begin? It
seems highly unlikely to me.
I don't believe God has appointed the church to the wrath which Paul
said would overtake the children of darkeness during the "day of the
Lord" (1 Thess. 5), but to salvation, through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul beseeches us, by the hope of our gathering to the Lord, not to
think we have entered into the day of the Lord, and exhorts us to
comfort one another with the hope of being raptured.
There will be a great multitude who will "have come out of the great
tribulation." (Revelation 7:14b) This great multitude is described as
being "from every nation, tribe, people, and language." (Revelation
7:9)
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name.
Amen !!!
Now this is about the works of the four horsemen from the 6th chapter
of the Book of Revelation (we are now in the 6th year into the third
millenium after the birth of the Son of Man):
(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:
"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to
sleep." - missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners
who gave up their lives to save the youngest among them after being
trapped by an explosion in a W.Va mine.
(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:
Ariel Sharon, the world's hope for lasting peace in the middle east,
suffers a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq
escalates. U.S. now less likely to pull out of Iraq anytime soon.
(3) Rider wielding a set of food scales and riding a black horse:
The rate of increase of the number of people worldwide using the
2PD-OMER Approach (which advocates the use of food scales) accelerates
with growing worldwide concerns about the obesity epidemic:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
Meanwhile, folks like Bob Pastorio who refuse to use this Approach are
heard muttering that an omer is not a weight measure but a volume
measure somewhere between one and three quarts depending on what the
food is and that liquid foods like milk (emulsified oil) and wine
should not be counted toward daily intake.
(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to kill a fourth of the
world's population "by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts
of the earth":
The H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic seems to be starting in Turkey:
http://tinyurl.com/amj4a
Yes, the migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.
When will the sun "turn black like sackcloth made of goat hair"
(Revelation 6:12b) ?
It will turn black during the total solar eclipse that will happen
**also** in Turkey on Wednesday 03/29/2006 at around 14:00 hrs LT.
http://tinyurl.com/dcj7w
The order of darkening of the following ancient cities in Turkey:
(1) Ephesus
(2) Smyrna
(3) Pergamum
(4) Thyatira
(5) Sardis
(6) Philadelphia
(7) Laodicea
Will be the same order that Christ Jesus used to address the seven
churches:
"Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to
Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyratira, Sardis, Philadelphia and
Laodicea." (Revelation 1:11)
Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
like cardiology, diabetes, cooking and nutrition that interest those
following this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/19/06) from
6 to 7 pm EST:
http://tinyurl.com/cpayh
For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for
how the LORD has reshaped me:
http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt
Prayerfully in Christ's love,
Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
18 Jan 2006 11:40:45 AM |
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
There will be a great multitude who will "have come out of the great
tribulation." (Revelation 7:14b) This great multitude is described as
being "from every nation, tribe, people, and language." (Revelation
7:9)
That's it? You see one verse that refers to a multitude of people
(which is nowhere referred to as the church), coming out of the
Tribulation, and you conclude, it must therefore be the church? You
don't feel any need to address the points made from 1 Thessalonians
4-5, 2 Thessalonians 2, Revelation 1-3, 3:10, or 4:1?
Yes, there will, a multitude coming from the Tribulation, but that
doesn't make them the "church" of Revelation chapters 1-3. Why would
Revelation 1-3 refer to believers as the "church" 19 times, during the
"things which are", and then instantly refer to them only as a
"multitude", or "saints" and such, once the "things which shall be
hereafter" begin in 4:1, and after John is raptured into heaven?
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name.
Well, you've apparently done a lot of work to try and figure out a way
to see the Tribulation in current events, and from a medical
persepective. You might do well to spend as much time trying to figure
out what the Bible says about who the Tribulation is for (it is "the
time of Jacob's trouble" (Jeremiah 30:7), and primarily concerns the
nation Israel (Revelation 12), who bore the man child (Christ), to
prepare her for the coming of the Messiah she rejected when He first
offered the kingdom. "A multitude" does not equal the "church" of
Revelation 1-3.
Try to figure out how the points made from 1 Thessalonians 4-5, 2
Thessalonians 2, Revelation 1 - 3; 3:10, and 4:1 fit into your
theology, instead of how you can possibly predict current events that
might fulfill Revelation.
.
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| User: "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" |
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| Title: Re: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
19 Jan 2006 12:00:40 AM |
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wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
There will be a great multitude who will "have come out of the great
tribulation." (Revelation 7:14b) This great multitude is described as
being "from every nation, tribe, people, and language." (Revelation
7:9)
That's it?
Simply a few words to the wise.
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name.
Amen !!!
Now this is about the works of the four horsemen from the 6th chapter
of the Book of Revelation (we are now in the 6th year into the third
millenium after the birth of the Son of Man):
(1) Crowned rider wielding a bow and riding a white horse:
"See you on the other side. It's not bad. We are just going to
sleep." - missive (missile) from one of 12 born-again Christian miners
who gave up their lives to save the youngest among them after being
trapped by an explosion in a W.Va mine.
(2) Rider wielding a sword and riding a fiery red horse:
Ariel Sharon, the world's hope for lasting peace in the middle east,
suffers a massive bleeding stroke. Violence and bloodshed in Iraq
escalates. U.S. now less likely to pull out of Iraq anytime soon.
(3) Rider wielding a set of food scales and riding a black horse:
The rate of increase of the number of people worldwide using the
2PD-OMER Approach (which advocates the use of food scales) accelerates
with growing worldwide concerns about the obesity epidemic:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
Meanwhile, folks like Bob Pastorio who refuse to use this Approach are
heard muttering that an omer is not a weight measure but a volume
measure somewhere between one and three quarts depending on what the
food is and that liquid foods like milk (emulsified oil) and wine
should not be counted toward daily intake.
(4) Rider on a pale horse given the authority to kill a fourth of the
world's population "by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts
of the earth":
The H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic seems to be starting in Turkey:
http://tinyurl.com/amj4a
Yes, the migratory birds spreading H5N1 virus are wild beasts of the
earth.
When will the sun "turn black like sackcloth made of goat hair"
(Revelation 6:12b) ?
It will turn black during the total solar eclipse that will happen
**also** in Turkey on Wednesday 03/29/2006 at around 14:00 hrs LT.
http://tinyurl.com/dcj7w
The order of darkening of the following ancient cities in Turkey:
(1) Ephesus
(2) Smyrna
(3) Pergamum
(4) Thyatira
(5) Sardis
(6) Philadelphia
(7) Laodicea
Will be the same order that Christ Jesus used to address the seven
churches:
"Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to
Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyratira, Sardis, Philadelphia and
Laodicea." (Revelation 1:11)
Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
like cardiology, diabetes, cooking and nutrition that interest those
following this thread here during the next on-line chat (01/19/06) from
6 to 7 pm EST:
http://tinyurl.com/cpayh
For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for
how the LORD has reshaped me:
http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt
Prayerfully in Christ's love,
Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
.
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| User: "Bob this one" |
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| Title: Re: Global earthquake 3/29/2006 ??????? |
18 Jan 2006 02:13:40 PM |
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wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
There will be a great multitude who will "have come out of the great
tribulation." (Revelation 7:14b) This great multitude is described as
being "from every nation, tribe, people, and language." (Revelation
7:9)
That's it? You see one verse that refers to a multitude of people
(which is nowhere referred to as the church), coming out of the
Tribulation, and you conclude, it must therefore be the church? You
don't feel any need to address the points made from 1 Thessalonians
4-5, 2 Thessalonians 2, Revelation 1-3, 3:10, or 4:1?
You've hinted at how Chung operates. He makes these flat-out statements
and, when questioned about them, says it's what he "discerned" and is
unarguable. He claims to have the "gift of discernment" which somehow
transmits information to his heart free of any sensory input. He says
he's fallible, but everything he does is guided by Jesus who is
infallible, and, consequently, his actions are infallible.
Disagreeing with him or seeking to engage him in discourse is wasting
time unless you agree with him absolutely. He will grow more and more
strident and vicious in his attacks all the while denying that it's what
he's doing and writing all sorts of platitudes that his actions belie.
You will get no scholarship or theological understanding from him. Nor
truth. He says his "discernment" trumps logic; renders it of lesser
value than his pronouncements.
Pastorio
Yes, there will, a multitude coming from the Tribulation, but that
doesn't make them the "church" of Revelation chapters 1-3. Why would
Revelation 1-3 refer to believers as the "church" 19 times, during the
"things which are", and then instantly refer to them only as a
"multitude", or "saints" and such, once the "things which shall be
hereafter" begin in 4:1, and after John is raptured into heaven?
May the LORD help us all to face the great tribulation when the Lamb
opens the 6th seal possibly in less than a few months (03/29/06), in
Jesus' most precious and holy name.
Well, you've apparently done a lot of work to try and figure out a way
to see the Tribulation in current events, and from a medical
persepective. You might do well to spend as much time trying to figure
out what the Bible says about who the Tribulation is for (it is "the
time of Jacob's trouble" (Jeremiah 30:7), and primarily concerns the
nation Israel (Revelation 12), who bore the man child (Christ), to
prepare her for the coming of the Messiah she rejected when He first
offered the kingdom. "A multitude" does not equal the "church" of
Revelation 1-3.
Try to figure out how the points made from 1 Thessalonians 4-5, 2
Thessalonians 2, Revelation 1 - 3; 3:10, and 4:1 fit into your
theology, instead of how you can possibly predict current events that
might fulfill Revelation.
.
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