| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
15 Jun 2006 09:17:40 AM |
| Object: |
Tough Questions for Futurists to Answer |
Hi,
Will any futurist be honest enough to try to answer
these questions? Or will I once again, see either
silence, or personal attacks as a response, which
is all that I have seen thus far, when I repost this
message?
Why is it that futurists think that this is a proper,
Christian way to respond? The truth is, they know
it isn't and they also know that they cannot give
satisfactory answers to these questions and they
love their man made doctrine so much more than
Scripture, that they will always choose said doctrine
over Scripture. (:
I really hope someone surprises me this time.
I mean, even if their response is proved to be
in error, at least we would have an honest,
engaging, discussion. And after all, isn't that
the way it should be, with each party stating
their point of view and then, the party who
cannot support their doctrine Biblically,
after examination, conceding that they need
to change their doctrine on that particular
matter under discussion? Why is it that this
is the opposite of what happens? It is sad! (:
Anyway, here's the text and I truly am hoping
for a surprise! :)
All questions from...
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/difficult.html
....except #2, which I asked.
QUESTION #1:
Assuming the earth will be destroyed with fire, and
all the nations of the earth will be destroyed along
with it, why, when the "New Earth" or "New Jerusalem"
comes, will the nations need healing? (Rev 22:2)?
How can you heal something that is already dead
and burned? If the New Jerusalem is the saved of
all ages, when all things have ended and we have
embarked into eternity; when sin, death, Hades
and Satan have all been cast into the lake of fire;
all evil has been disposed of, sin has been finally
purged; there is no more sickness, no more hunger
or thirst; the former things shall not be remembered
or even come to mind; why would they need healing
if they are now in eternal bliss?
QUESTION #2:
If the judgment has taken place and all of the wicked
have been destroyed and there is a new heaven and
earth and only the faithful are there, living forever
(Revelation 20:12 - 21:4), then who are the people
outside of the gates of New Jerusalem (Rev 22:14-15)?
QUESTION #3:
If, in the New Heaven and New Earth, there will
be no more death, why does the Bible say there
WILL still be physical death in the New Heaven
and New Earth (see Isaiah 65:17-20, 66:24)?
QUESTION #4:
If, after the New Heaven and New Earth come, there
will be no more sin, why does Isaiah say there WILL
still be sin (Isaiah 65:20)? Even Jesus Christ said
there would still be sin in the next age (see Matthew
12:32, Revelation 22:15). And Revelation says that,
after the New Jerusalem comes, there will still be
sinners (Revelation 21:27).
QUESTION #5:
If the New Jerusalem is a physical place, and it
will physically come down to earth, why did Jesus
say it would not come with observation, and that
people would not say "look here or look there"
(Luke 17:20-21)? Why not say "look" if it will
come with observation? Can it possibly be because
it will be a spiritual kingdom and not a physical one?
Return of Christ
This next question is concerning the question
the disciples asked in Matthew 24:3: "And what
will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end
of the age?" Here are a few facts first.
Jesus talked to his disciples about his death but
the apostles did not understand it at all (Matthew
16:21-22, Mark 8:31-32; 9:31-32, Luke 9:44-45;
18:31-34, John 13:33-14:6; 16:16-18). This last account
in the Gospel of John takes place after Jesus had given
them the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24) and they still
did not understand that Jesus was going to leave them
and die. After all, he was God...how can God die? They
had no idea of Jesus leaving, then coming again (John
12:34).
The disciples expected Jesus to be their physical King
and set up a worldly Kingdom at his First Coming
(John 6:15, Luke 24:21), not at his Second Coming.
So did others (Luke 17:20-21; 19:11). Even after the
crucifixion, they still had no concept about his Second
Coming, because they still thought he was going to give
them a physical Kingdom at that time (Acts 1:6).
QUESTION #6:
If the apostles had no idea that Jesus was going to
leave them, why would they ask Him about His return
(Matthew 24:3)? How could the disciples have asked
a question about something they knew nothing about?
QUESTION #7:
If Jesus is going to come down physically on the Mount
of Olives, why did Christ warn "Then if any man shall
say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it
not" (Matthew 24:23)? Why can't we believe someone
who would say, "Lo there is Christ descending on the
Mount of Olives!"? Can it possibly be because it will
be a spiritual coming and not a physical one?
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
O
/
/
<><[]()X()[]><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>
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\
O
"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."
All we can do every day is the next right thing.
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Tough Questions for Futurists to Answer |
16 Jun 2006 03:08:39 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:10r292hhs8b050cm2q6ck7liorp2hu0ak5@4ax.com...
Hi,
Will any futurist be honest enough to try to answer
these questions? Or will I once again, see either
silence, or personal attacks as a response, which
is all that I have seen thus far, when I repost this
message?
ROTFL!!!!! "Poor little Davy!"
Your questions have been answered time and again. You're the most refuted
person on-line.
You say His return is spiritual, not physical, and that His return was the
coming of the Holy Spirit at penetecost. You ignore that He promised both to
send His Holy Spirit and to return. You ignore 2 John 1:7 "For many
deceivers are entering into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is
coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist" (2 John 1:7).
You say this is the resurrection: "Jesus, when he had cried again with a
loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was
rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the
rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which
slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went
into the holy city, and appeared unto many" (Matt 27:50-53).
.
Since the resurrection occurs at His coming: "Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming" (1 Cor. 15:23), you've got
Him coming before He left, then you have Him coming again on pentecost.
the resurrection was the people coming out of their graves at His
resurrection
Why is it that futurists think that this is a proper,
Christian way to respond? The truth is, they know
it isn't and they also know that they cannot give
satisfactory answers to these questions and they
love their man made doctrine so much more than
Scripture, that they will always choose said doctrine
over Scripture. (:
I really hope someone surprises me this time.
I mean, even if their response is proved to be
in error, at least we would have an honest,
engaging, discussion. And after all, isn't that
the way it should be, with each party stating
their point of view and then, the party who
cannot support their doctrine Biblically,
after examination, conceding that they need
to change their doctrine on that particular
matter under discussion? Why is it that this
is the opposite of what happens? It is sad! (:
Anyway, here's the text and I truly am hoping
for a surprise! :)
All questions from...
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/difficult.html
...except #2, which I asked.
QUESTION #1:
Assuming the earth will be destroyed with fire, and
all the nations of the earth will be destroyed along
with it, why, when the "New Earth" or "New Jerusalem"
comes, will the nations need healing? (Rev 22:2)?
How can you heal something that is already dead
and burned? If the New Jerusalem is the saved of
all ages, when all things have ended and we have
embarked into eternity; when sin, death, Hades
and Satan have all been cast into the lake of fire;
all evil has been disposed of, sin has been finally
purged; there is no more sickness, no more hunger
or thirst; the former things shall not be remembered
or even come to mind; why would they need healing
if they are now in eternal bliss?
QUESTION #2:
If the judgment has taken place and all of the wicked
have been destroyed and there is a new heaven and
earth and only the faithful are there, living forever
(Revelation 20:12 - 21:4), then who are the people
outside of the gates of New Jerusalem (Rev 22:14-15)?
QUESTION #3:
If, in the New Heaven and New Earth, there will
be no more death, why does the Bible say there
WILL still be physical death in the New Heaven
and New Earth (see Isaiah 65:17-20, 66:24)?
QUESTION #4:
If, after the New Heaven and New Earth come, there
will be no more sin, why does Isaiah say there WILL
still be sin (Isaiah 65:20)? Even Jesus Christ said
there would still be sin in the next age (see Matthew
12:32, Revelation 22:15). And Revelation says that,
after the New Jerusalem comes, there will still be
sinners (Revelation 21:27).
QUESTION #5:
If the New Jerusalem is a physical place, and it
will physically come down to earth, why did Jesus
say it would not come with observation, and that
people would not say "look here or look there"
(Luke 17:20-21)? Why not say "look" if it will
come with observation? Can it possibly be because
it will be a spiritual kingdom and not a physical one?
Return of Christ
This next question is concerning the question
the disciples asked in Matthew 24:3: "And what
will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end
of the age?" Here are a few facts first.
Jesus talked to his disciples about his death but
the apostles did not understand it at all (Matthew
16:21-22, Mark 8:31-32; 9:31-32, Luke 9:44-45;
18:31-34, John 13:33-14:6; 16:16-18). This last account
in the Gospel of John takes place after Jesus had given
them the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24) and they still
did not understand that Jesus was going to leave them
and die. After all, he was God...how can God die? They
had no idea of Jesus leaving, then coming again (John
12:34).
The disciples expected Jesus to be their physical King
and set up a worldly Kingdom at his First Coming
(John 6:15, Luke 24:21), not at his Second Coming.
So did others (Luke 17:20-21; 19:11). Even after the
crucifixion, they still had no concept about his Second
Coming, because they still thought he was going to give
them a physical Kingdom at that time (Acts 1:6).
QUESTION #6:
If the apostles had no idea that Jesus was going to
leave them, why would they ask Him about His return
(Matthew 24:3)? How could the disciples have asked
a question about something they knew nothing about?
QUESTION #7:
If Jesus is going to come down physically on the Mount
of Olives, why did Christ warn "Then if any man shall
say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it
not" (Matthew 24:23)? Why can't we believe someone
who would say, "Lo there is Christ descending on the
Mount of Olives!"? Can it possibly be because it will
be a spiritual coming and not a physical one?
--
http://stores.ebay.com/fasTrack-on-the-Bay
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as
a little child, he shall not enter therein. (Mark 10:15)
"Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his
servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7)."
"Behold, I will send you EL YH [LORD God] the prophet before the coming of
the great and dreadful day of the Lord" (Mal 4:5)
"Why then say the scribes that ELYH [Elijah] must first come" (Matt 17:10)?
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom
11:25).
.
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| User: "St Dog the Wet" |
|
| Title: Re: Tough Questions for Futurists to Answer |
15 Jun 2006 10:01:28 AM |
|
|
Pastor Dave wrote:
Hi,
Will any futurist be honest enough to try to answer
these questions?
All of Dave's Questions have been answered.
Each of these Questions was answered individually, and posted to
alt.christnet.christianlife on or about 26 Feb 2006
see http://tinyurl.com/ls286
You may search for each question one at a time by title using
A Preterist's 10 Questions, # where # is the question number
A Preterist's 10 Questions, 4
or all the answers in one document which you may save, at
http://www.geocities.com/gaedhealic/questions.html
The questions this Famous Usnet Troll has asked in NOT a request
for answers, but is Troll bait he uses to lure the unsuspecting
into endless debate, in which he will continually and repeatedly
inform you that you cannot answer the questions, therefore you
faith must be wrong and you are a fool for not believing his
brand of delusion (Preterism).
It will be informative for you to study the questions and answers
as given, but to engage in debate with this troll is an act of
futility.
owd
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
..
.
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| User: "pulpitfire" |
|
| Title: Re: Tough Questions for Futurists to Answer |
15 Jun 2006 11:55:10 PM |
|
|
Pastor Dave wrote:
Hi,
Will any futurist be honest enough to try to answer
these questions? Or will I once again, see either
silence, or personal attacks as a response, which
is all that I have seen thus far, when I repost this
message?
Why is it that futurists think that this is a proper,
Christian way to respond?
Says the guy who later that day went on to call me a moron and dumbass
half a dozen times. Owd's already tried to answer these questions, and
posted a link to it.
<snip>
--
=============================================
The Tribulation of Revelation 4-19 is to try "them who dwell
on the earth". Revelation 3:10 says it is the very hour the
Tribulation testing occurs which the churches (he who has
an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches)
will be delivered from, and not just preserved on earth
through the hour of Tribulation. www.pulpitfire.org
=============================================
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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