| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Streamer" |
| Date: |
14 Dec 2004 08:51:10 PM |
| Object: |
TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
Catholics use John 6:53-55 to support the view that the wine of the
Eucharist becomes Christ's actual blood during the mass:
-------------------------------------------------------
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of
the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever
eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on
the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink." (John
6:53-55)
-------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Jesus said "eat my flesh and drink my blood," but this is not
necessarily to be taken literally. Elsewhere Jesus said, "I am the light"
(John 8:12), "I am the gate for the sheep" (John 10:7), "I am the way" (John
14:6), "I am the vine" (John 15:5), and so on. Are we to believe Jesus is
literally a light, gate, way, and vine? No, he is clearly speaking
spiritually, not literally. Jesus himself explains that "eat my flesh and
drink my blood" is figurative.
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
18 Dec 2004 04:03:47 PM |
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The Church was separate from the French state and the Spanish state at the
time. It was, however, net separate from the Roman State under Sir Otto of
Brunswick, for Otto was blessed by the Vatican.
The French state acted separatetly from the wishes of Innocent III and the
vatican diplomats. Instead of apprehending these men, the french state
killed them.
The same went for the spanish inqiusition.
As for mass murder, give me solid proof for this. There were many who
killed during the period of the three Inquisitions, These, however, aren't
a direct result of eclesiastical courts, but secular courts. Also, there
were no mass murders, for the cases were approached on an individual basis
and most of the cases results in the person being tried admitting to heresy
and returning to the Church or recanting the Church and abandoning her.
-RS
As for president Bush, he is the president of the United States of America.
If you are a citizen of the United States, he is your president whether you
admit it or not.
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| User: "Dave Lister" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
18 Dec 2004 04:34:47 PM |
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"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in news:cq29gc$gsm$1@news3.bu.edu:
The Church was separate from the French state and the Spanish state at
the time.
Crap. This was a legal fiction.
As for mass murder, give me solid proof for this. There were many who
killed during the period of the three Inquisitions, These, however,
aren't a direct result of eclesiastical courts, but secular courts.
Also, there were no mass murders, for the cases were approached on an
individual basis and most of the cases results in the person being
tried admitting to heresy and returning to the Church or recanting the
Church and abandoning her.
Again, crap. The church used the state so it could claim its hands were
clean. You promote a fiction that fools nobody but RCC culties.
--
Bush is not my President.
.
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| User: "Doc Watson -- the \Usenet GHOST!\ :O" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
19 Dec 2004 01:43:56 PM |
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On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:05:52 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> spoke the
following words of wisdom:
We do not claim to have written the bible
Yes, many of you DO clainm that, although WE, as Christians -- know
that to be a lie........
Ask 'bam' -- ask her to tell you WHO wrote it......... see what she
tells you.
We legitimately claim to be endowed with apostlitic succession
through
Peter, who was given the responsibility of building the Church on
earth.
bollocks, point blank.
And the term should be APOSTOLIC.
Your religion is JUST as manmade as every other here on this blasted
Earth.
The TRUE CHURCH is in Heaven, where Jesus waits for ALL HIOS mebmers
to come home when He returns to take us there.
ENOUGH.
I can only take so much of the RCc's false teachings, then I feel an
emotional explosion due to erupt...........
Please not also, Rob---------- that I am saying 'RC' and not
'romanism' to you.
I AM trying to speak to you as peaceably as possible.
Baptism is a sacrament
Most accurately defined, it is an ORDINANCE.......
Confirmation is a sacrament
(according to the rc religion......
Eucharist is a sacrament
'eucharist' simply implies that 'transubstantiation' really occurs,
which it doesn't, so let's not go there, please..........
Reconciliation is a sacrament
Balderdash. To RECONCILE one's differences simply means to 'bury the
hatchet'......... 'start all over again, forgetting past prejudices,
or problems'.....
It has nothing to do with a 'Sacrament'
Anointing of the sick is a sacrament
It is merely an ancient practice that your denomination CHOSE TO CALL
a 'Sacrament'........
Marriage is a sacrament
Marriage is the joining of a male and female in holy wedlock. It has
nothing to do with your religion's particular doctrines.
Holy Orders is a sacrament
OTC, it is nothing. "Holy Orders' according to you mean so much, but
it has nothing to DO with true faith, and as regards a ministry, EACH
CHRISTIAN who loves the Lord and follows HIM to the best of their
ability, ARE already blessed with Holy Orders. It is nothing unique to
the religion of Rome.
They are indeed very real sacraments. To call them fake indicates
that you
do not know what a sacrament is in the first place.
Oh come now, please!!!!
Sacrament: A rite believed to be a means of or visible form of grace.
There are so many forms of GRACE available to ALL who believe on the
perfect name of our Lord Jesus Christ!
We need not have ANY of them really 'visible'. To expect visibility'
would only place us in the classification of Thomas, the doubtful one.
May I relate something which happened to me some years back, a TRUE
experience:
I am a known asthmatic since having had an adult bout of pneumonia
approximately 14 years ago..... it left me with asthma.
I was having a sever attack,m and had to call a taxi to get me to the
hospital for vent treatments. In my frustration, and hurriedness, I
felt the need to 'go to the john' as the old saying goes.
While there, I prayed to God, and asked for His divine intervention.
I didn't SEE any particuilar miracle. I didn't NEED to. But what I
FELT was something I still to this day have a problem really
ACCURATELY describing.
I couldn't breathe; I was extremely anxious, because suffocation is
not a pleasant experience by any means.......... I was frightened,
being all by myself.
But as soon as said that prayer..............
"God -- HELP me!" were all the words I could muster at that
point..... I IMMEDIATELY felt a sense of calm come over me----------
not instant relief of the problem, by any means, but an inward
assurance that everything would be fine.
And it WAS.
Now-- last New Years, I got pneumonia again, and was hospitalized in
the critical care unit for 4 days, then out on the main floor areas
for the next three, after which I was discharged home. It was
incredibly a lonely experience, because the hospital was closed to
visitors, due to an influenza outbreak.
Yet, my faith not only remained, but STRENGTHENED in that time.
And, my brother Carl was a wonderful help to me as well, keeping the
snow cleared at my home, keeping my kitties fed.......... my best
friend Cathy also helped so terrifically, keeping the pellet stove
going, doing some houisework, etc, until I returned home.
Their ACTIONS proved their love for the Lord, and they glorified HIM
by them.
I could say more here, but why bother opening up old cankers?
My problems didn't end, but -- you know what? My asthma is next to
GONE.
I still need inhalers for the lung problem (caused by my years of
smoking)........
I cannot really 'explain it' -- all I know is, YES, my lungs still
give me problems (my OWN supidity for having smoked over a number of
years in my youth) ---------- but I quit cancer-sticking about 28
years ago.
The old saying "The Lord helps those who help themselves' plays a very
important role in my life today, and I will never forget HIS timely
and poignant intervention.
large snip :o)
In attacking my faith, you are not presenting truth for you aren't
even
attacking what my faith really is. You are attacking what you think
it to
be. In doing so, however, you are only making my faith in Christ
stronger.
In making me defend my faith, I am growing with a closer
understanding of
the will of the Lord in my life.
-RS
I am pleased to hear your faith is growing, Rob.
But -- is it faith IN GOD, the real HOLY FATHER?
Or faith in what the religion of rome is teaching you?
Stubbornness is a good thing, when channelled in the right direction.
Edison is such a wonderful example; so is Alexander Graham Bell.
But sometimes stubbornness only leads us deeper into believing the
wrong thing.
Pklease note------ when I was so desperate, I PRAYED TO GOD ...... in
Jesus name.
I could only say aloud "GOD------ HELP ME!" in my mind, silently -- I
closed my prayer with .......... "In Jesus' name, AMEN."
I didn't pray to Mary.
--
The official Usenet GHOST....
haunting romanists EVERYWHERE!
BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA! BOO!
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
19 Dec 2004 05:52:24 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:43:56 -0500, "Doc Watson -- the \"Usenet GHOST!\" :O)"
<me@you.net> wrote:
We do not claim to have written the bible
Yes, many of you DO clainm that, although WE, as Christians -- know
that to be a lie........
Scripture was revealed by God and written in the hand of man. We all know that the bible
is not the sole revelation of the Holy Word of God.
Ask 'bam' -- ask her to tell you WHO wrote it......... see what she
tells you.
We Chistians put pencil to paper. Who else do you thing did so, doc?
We legitimately claim to be endowed with apostlitic succession
through
Peter, who was given the responsibility of building the Church on
earth.
bollocks, point blank.
And it's fully true. Even Martin Luther admitted it.
And the term should be APOSTOLIC.
Your religion is JUST as manmade as every other here on this blasted
Earth.
Nope, Jesus gave us the 7 sacraments.
The TRUE CHURCH is in Heaven, where Jesus waits for ALL HIOS mebmers
to come home when He returns to take us there.
We're talking about the Chruch on earth, doc. You know that.
ENOUGH.
I can only take so much of the RCc's false teachings, then I feel an
emotional explosion due to erupt...........
Because you can't stand hearing the truth.
I AM trying to speak to you as peaceably as possible.
Baptism is a sacrament
Most accurately defined, it is an ORDINANCE.......
No, it's a sacrament. You do know what a sacrament is, don't you doc.
Confirmation is a sacrament
(according to the rc religion......
According to Jesus.
Eucharist is a sacrament
'eucharist' simply implies that 'transubstantiation' really occurs,
which it doesn't, so let's not go there, please..........
Of course it does - Jesus said the bread and wine as he said "this is my Body and the cup
of my Blood." How much clearer can Jesus be?
Reconciliation is a sacrament
Balderdash. To RECONCILE one's differences simply means to 'bury the
hatchet'......... 'start all over again, forgetting past prejudices,
or problems'.....
John 20:19-23 says it all. Well, actually, Mat 16:17-19 seals the deal.
It has nothing to do with a 'Sacrament'
You don't even know what a sacrament is. And you try to call them ordinances.
Anointing of the sick is a sacrament
It is merely an ancient practice that your denomination CHOSE TO CALL
a 'Sacrament'........
Marriage is a sacrament
Marriage is the joining of a male and female in holy wedlock. It has
nothing to do with your religion's particular doctrines.
Holy Orders is a sacrament
OTC, it is nothing. "Holy Orders' according to you mean so much, but
it has nothing to DO with true faith,
It is the Christian priesthood, doc.
and as regards a ministry, EACH
CHRISTIAN who loves the Lord and follows HIM to the best of their
ability, ARE already blessed with Holy Orders. It is nothing unique to
the religion of Rome.
Nope - no hands laid on.
They are indeed very real sacraments. To call them fake indicates
that you
do not know what a sacrament is in the first place.
Oh come now, please!!!!
No, doc, that's a flat truism. You don't have any idea what a sacrament is.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
19 Dec 2004 09:05:40 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:24 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> done
went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little old Usenet
News'FROUPS:
Your religion is JUST as manmade as every other here on this blasted
Earth.
Nope, Jesus gave us the 7 sacraments.
Fine. Show me where in the Bible Jesus did any such thing.
Your problem is, He did no such thing.
Jesus never even named your romanist cult, let alone designate a
popoe.
The TRUE CHURCH is in Heaven, where Jesus waits for ALL HIS mebmers
to come home when He returns to take us there.
We're talking about the Chruch on earth, doc. You know that.
There are a lot of churches on the earth, duke..... And look at the
biblical SEVEN CHURCHES on earth which were in ixistance long before
your romanist one.
ENOUGH.
I can only take so much of the RCc's false teachings, then I feel an
emotional explosion due to erupt...........
Because you can't stand hearing the truth.
Balderdash. I despise the lies your cult promulgates, and don't sit
idly by when they are.
You hate me for that, but hey- I gotta do the right thing, and that
includes exposing the lies of papa-roma's cult.
I AM trying to speak to you as peaceably as possible.
Baptism is a sacrament
Most accurately defined, it is an ORDINANCE.......
No, it's a sacrament. You do know what a sacrament is, don't you doc.
Baptism IS AN ORDINANCE.
snip gibberish...........
'eucharist' simply implies that 'transubstantiation' really occurs,
which it doesn't, so let's not go there, please..........
Of course it does - Jesus said the bread and wine as he said "this is my Body and the cup
of my Blood." How much clearer can Jesus be?
He said no such thing, and certainly NEVER ever mentioned 'a CUP OF
BLOOD'. Stop trying to put words into Jesus' speech He never said.
Reconciliation is a sacrament
Balderdash. To RECONCILE one's differences simply means to 'bury the
hatchet'......... 'start all over again, forgetting past prejudices,
or problems'.....
snipped duke's cowardice.... you're obviously too cowardly to provide
the verse. I will not do your homework for you.
You don't even know what a sacrament is. And you try to call them ordinances.
Fine, duke- you go ahead and 'educate' me as regards what you imagine
a Sacrament really is then...........
OTC, it is nothing. "Holy Orders' according to you mean so much, but
it has nothing to DO with true faith,
It is the Christian priesthood, doc.
ALL believers are priests.
The Bible says so.
So your cult is nothing special with what it calls 'priests' and your
'holy orders' is nothing but more arrogant lies.
and as regards a ministry, EACH
CHRISTIAN who loves the Lord and follows HIM to the best of their
ability, ARE already blessed with Holy Orders. It is nothing unique to
the religion of Rome.
Nope - no hands laid on.
You don't need any laying on of hands, either.
ALL BELIEVERS IN JESUS ARE 'PRIESTS' IN THEIR OWN RIGHT.
THE BIBLE SAYS SO.
remainder of gibberish removed
-------------------------------------------------------
JESUS IS THE ROCK
God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called
-------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
20 Dec 2004 02:22:32 AM |
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<romath@romath.net> wrote in message
news:bvlcs0ltct9aonaf21p2dqd4ineqr634cp@4ax.com...
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:24 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> done
went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little old Usenet
News'FROUPS:
Your religion is JUST as manmade as every other here on this blasted
Earth.
Nope, Jesus gave us the 7 sacraments.
Fine. Show me where in the Bible Jesus did any such thing.
Your problem is, He did no such thing.
Jesus never even named your romanist cult, let alone designate a
popoe.
Please do not use the term romanist. It is very vulgar and disgusting.
-RS
<snip for lack of time>
When you said "He said no such thing" in reference to the last supper, here
it is:
Mark 14:24
Mattew 26:27
I admit that you can make a mistake, which you just did in saying Jesus
never said what he really did (I proved that he said it using scripture).
Admit you are wrong and move on.
-RS
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
20 Dec 2004 09:16:35 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 03:22:32 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> done went
and wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
<romath@romath.net> wrote in message
news:bvlcs0ltct9aonaf21p2dqd4ineqr634cp@4ax.com...
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:24 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> done
went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little old Usenet
News'FROUPS:
Your religion is JUST as manmade as every other here on this blasted
Earth.
Nope, Jesus gave us the 7 sacraments.
Fine. Show me where in the Bible Jesus did any such thing.
Your problem is, He did no such thing.
Jesus never even named your romanist cult, let alone designate a
popoe.
Please do not use the term romanist. It is very vulgar and disgusting.
-RS
I said I would refrain from using that term with YOU. I never said I
would stop using it altogether. Don't push your luck.
-------------------------------------------------------
JESUS IS THE ROCK
God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called
-------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
20 Dec 2004 10:22:56 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 03:22:32 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
<romath@romath.net> wrote in message
news:bvlcs0ltct9aonaf21p2dqd4ineqr634cp@4ax.com...
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:24 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> done
went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little old Usenet
News'FROUPS:
Your religion is JUST as manmade as every other here on this blasted
Earth.
Nope, Jesus gave us the 7 sacraments.
Fine. Show me where in the Bible Jesus did any such thing.
Your problem is, He did no such thing.
Jesus never even named your romanist cult, let alone designate a
popoe.
Please do not use the term romanist. It is very vulgar and disgusting.
not near as disgusting as the rcc.
-RS
O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
Psalm 8:1
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
19 Dec 2004 07:07:05 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:24 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:43:56 -0500, "Doc Watson -- the \"Usenet GHOST!\" :O)"
<me@you.net> wrote:
We do not claim to have written the bible
Yes, many of you DO clainm that, although WE, as Christians -- know
that to be a lie........
Scripture was revealed by God and written in the hand of man. We all know that the bible
is not the sole revelation of the Holy Word of God.
No we don't.
O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
Psalm 8:1
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
20 Dec 2004 03:25:59 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:24 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:43:56 -0500, "Doc Watson -- the \"Usenet GHOST!\" :O)"
<me@you.net> wrote:
We do not claim to have written the bible
Yes, many of you DO clainm that, although WE, as Christians -- know
that to be a lie........
Scripture was revealed by God and written in the hand of man. We all know that the bible
is not the sole revelation of the Holy Word of God.
I have a question for you, duke, oh scholar!
If the bread is TRULY the body of Christ, and you eat it, and then you
"dump it", are the feces God, too?
Just wondering.
jw
Ask 'bam' -- ask her to tell you WHO wrote it......... see what she
tells you.
We Chistians put pencil to paper. Who else do you thing did so, doc?
We legitimately claim to be endowed with apostlitic succession
through
Peter, who was given the responsibility of building the Church on
earth.
bollocks, point blank.
And it's fully true. Even Martin Luther admitted it.
And the term should be APOSTOLIC.
Your religion is JUST as manmade as every other here on this blasted
Earth.
Nope, Jesus gave us the 7 sacraments.
The TRUE CHURCH is in Heaven, where Jesus waits for ALL HIOS mebmers
to come home when He returns to take us there.
We're talking about the Chruch on earth, doc. You know that.
ENOUGH.
I can only take so much of the RCc's false teachings, then I feel an
emotional explosion due to erupt...........
Because you can't stand hearing the truth.
I AM trying to speak to you as peaceably as possible.
Baptism is a sacrament
Most accurately defined, it is an ORDINANCE.......
No, it's a sacrament. You do know what a sacrament is, don't you doc.
Confirmation is a sacrament
(according to the rc religion......
According to Jesus.
Eucharist is a sacrament
'eucharist' simply implies that 'transubstantiation' really occurs,
which it doesn't, so let's not go there, please..........
Of course it does - Jesus said the bread and wine as he said "this is my Body and the cup
of my Blood." How much clearer can Jesus be?
Reconciliation is a sacrament
Balderdash. To RECONCILE one's differences simply means to 'bury the
hatchet'......... 'start all over again, forgetting past prejudices,
or problems'.....
John 20:19-23 says it all. Well, actually, Mat 16:17-19 seals the deal.
It has nothing to do with a 'Sacrament'
You don't even know what a sacrament is. And you try to call them ordinances.
Anointing of the sick is a sacrament
It is merely an ancient practice that your denomination CHOSE TO CALL
a 'Sacrament'........
Marriage is a sacrament
Marriage is the joining of a male and female in holy wedlock. It has
nothing to do with your religion's particular doctrines.
Holy Orders is a sacrament
OTC, it is nothing. "Holy Orders' according to you mean so much, but
it has nothing to DO with true faith,
It is the Christian priesthood, doc.
and as regards a ministry, EACH
CHRISTIAN who loves the Lord and follows HIM to the best of their
ability, ARE already blessed with Holy Orders. It is nothing unique to
the religion of Rome.
Nope - no hands laid on.
They are indeed very real sacraments. To call them fake indicates
that you
do not know what a sacrament is in the first place.
Oh come now, please!!!!
No, doc, that's a flat truism. You don't have any idea what a sacrament is.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
20 Dec 2004 04:35:39 AM |
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"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:0j6ds0lok8knnpa5qgie0hkn5vv0tp8hru@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:24 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:43:56 -0500, "Doc Watson -- the \"Usenet GHOST!\"
:O)"
<me@you.net> wrote:
We do not claim to have written the bible
Yes, many of you DO clainm that, although WE, as Christians -- know
that to be a lie........
Scripture was revealed by God and written in the hand of man. We all know
that the bible
is not the sole revelation of the Holy Word of God.
I have a question for you, duke, oh scholar!
If the bread is TRULY the body of Christ, and you eat it, and then you
"dump it", are the feces God, too?
Just wondering.
There is not enough of it consumed that one would waste any, especially if
one follows the Sabbath fast. All of it becomes nourishment and energy for
the body, but within the body, the spirit of Christ as contained becomes one
with you and the host is consumed and becomes a part of you, infused with
you. You physically and spiritually become one with Jesus. It is an
amazing thing. I wish you weren't so close mined to see that God gave us
this sacrament so we could become one with Him.
-RS
.
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
22 Dec 2004 10:33:03 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 05:35:39 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:0j6ds0lok8knnpa5qgie0hkn5vv0tp8hru@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:24 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:43:56 -0500, "Doc Watson -- the \"Usenet GHOST!\"
:O)"
<me@you.net> wrote:
We do not claim to have written the bible
Yes, many of you DO clainm that, although WE, as Christians -- know
that to be a lie........
Scripture was revealed by God and written in the hand of man. We all know
that the bible
is not the sole revelation of the Holy Word of God.
I have a question for you, duke, oh scholar!
If the bread is TRULY the body of Christ, and you eat it, and then you
"dump it", are the feces God, too?
Just wondering.
There is not enough of it consumed that one would waste any, especially if
one follows the Sabbath fast. All of it becomes nourishment and energy for
the body, but within the body, the spirit of Christ as contained becomes one
with you and the host is consumed and becomes a part of you, infused with
you. You physically and spiritually become one with Jesus. It is an
amazing thing. I wish you weren't so close mined to see that God gave us
this sacrament so we could become one with Him.
I became "one with Him" the day He died on the cross and "closed the
gap" between man and God.
One can get no closer to God than when one gets on his knees or on his
face and prays.
You have set up imaginary relationships that were not intended in
scripture, and there is no indication of the "bonding" you seek in the
descriptions of the Last Supper.
And you still have to reconcile the Old Testament version of the Seder
feast with the one Jesus performed. Your way "doesn't fit" with the
rest of the picture.
jw
-RS
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
20 Dec 2004 10:27:19 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 01:25:59 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:24 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:43:56 -0500, "Doc Watson -- the \"Usenet GHOST!\" :O)"
<me@you.net> wrote:
We do not claim to have written the bible
Yes, many of you DO clainm that, although WE, as Christians -- know
that to be a lie........
Scripture was revealed by God and written in the hand of man. We all know that the bible
is not the sole revelation of the Holy Word of God.
I have a question for you, duke, oh scholar!
If the bread is TRULY the body of Christ, and you eat it, and then you
"dump it", are the feces God, too?
Just wondering.
Very good point.
I also wonder that if one drinks a few extra glasses of wine, will he get
drunk or full of blood?
If it is blood, then one couldn't get drunk on it.
And if a glass is good for you, then a bottle has to be better, right?
O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
Psalm 8:1
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
20 Dec 2004 09:16:36 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:27:19 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com> done
went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little old Usenet
News'FROUPS:
I also wonder that if one drinks a few extra glasses of wine, will he get
drunk or full of blood?
If it is blood, then one couldn't get drunk on it.
And if a glass is good for you, then a bottle has to be better, right?
hehe!! Good point there....
-------------------------------------------------------
JESUS IS THE ROCK
God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called
-------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
22 Dec 2004 10:36:48 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:27:19 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 01:25:59 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:24 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:43:56 -0500, "Doc Watson -- the \"Usenet GHOST!\" :O)"
<me@you.net> wrote:
We do not claim to have written the bible
Yes, many of you DO clainm that, although WE, as Christians -- know
that to be a lie........
Scripture was revealed by God and written in the hand of man. We all know that the bible
is not the sole revelation of the Holy Word of God.
I have a question for you, duke, oh scholar!
If the bread is TRULY the body of Christ, and you eat it, and then you
"dump it", are the feces God, too?
Just wondering.
Very good point.
I also wonder that if one drinks a few extra glasses of wine, will he get
drunk or full of blood?
If it is blood, then one couldn't get drunk on it.
And if a glass is good for you, then a bottle has to be better, right?
Hell! Drink the whole damn keg!
What our RCC "brothers" fail to understand is that we don't need
"grace" in the blood or flesh. And there is one more conflict. Both
the Old Testament and the New Testament FORBID the ingesting of blood,
which is one thing the Jehovah's Witnesses have got right.
Why would God forbid us to eat/drink blood in the OT, and then again
in the NT, and then Jesus would command us to drink HIS blood?
That's like God forbidding fornication, and then Jesus taking the 12
to a brothel.
jw
O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
Psalm 8:1
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
23 Dec 2004 04:40:35 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:36:48 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:27:19 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 01:25:59 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:52:24 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 14:43:56 -0500, "Doc Watson -- the \"Usenet GHOST!\" :O)"
<me@you.net> wrote:
We do not claim to have written the bible
Yes, many of you DO clainm that, although WE, as Christians -- know
that to be a lie........
Scripture was revealed by God and written in the hand of man. We all know that the bible
is not the sole revelation of the Holy Word of God.
I have a question for you, duke, oh scholar!
If the bread is TRULY the body of Christ, and you eat it, and then you
"dump it", are the feces God, too?
Just wondering.
Very good point.
I also wonder that if one drinks a few extra glasses of wine, will he get
drunk or full of blood?
If it is blood, then one couldn't get drunk on it.
And if a glass is good for you, then a bottle has to be better, right?
Hell! Drink the whole damn keg!
What our RCC "brothers" fail to understand is that we don't need
"grace" in the blood or flesh. And there is one more conflict. Both
the Old Testament and the New Testament FORBID the ingesting of blood,
which is one thing the Jehovah's Witnesses have got right.
John 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall
worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be
His worshipers.
24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and
truth."
yep.
Nothing there about cannibalism.
Why would God forbid us to eat/drink blood in the OT, and then again
in the NT, and then Jesus would command us to drink HIS blood?
That's like God forbidding fornication, and then Jesus taking the 12
to a brothel.
They accuse Jesus of sin.
jw
O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
Psalm 8:1
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| User: "SDesk" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
14 Dec 2004 11:20:50 PM |
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CB wrote:
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:51:10 -0500, "Streamer"
<Stream_Haze@yahoo.com> wrote:
Catholics use John 6:53-55 to support the view that the wine of the
Eucharist becomes Christ's actual blood during the mass:
-------------------------------------------------------
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the
flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life
within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal
life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true
food, and my blood is true drink." (John 6:53-55)
-------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Jesus said "eat my flesh and drink my blood," but this is not
necessarily to be taken literally. Elsewhere Jesus said, "I am the
light" (John 8:12), "I am the gate for the sheep" (John 10:7), "I
am the way" (John 14:6), "I am the vine" (John 15:5), and so on.
Are we to believe Jesus is literally a light, gate, way, and vine?
No, he is clearly speaking spiritually, not literally. Jesus
himself explains that "eat my flesh and drink my blood" is
figurative.
< clubbed >
If it is not literally true then it is literally false?
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: TRANSUBSTANTIATION? |
16 Dec 2004 05:17:32 AM |
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On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:29:10 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
catholics love to quote John 6:53 but they ignore John 6:35.
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to
me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
No we don't.
Mat 26:26-30, Mk 14:22-26, Luke 22:14-20, and 1Cor 11:23-25.
We profess these. Why do you baptists reject them literally. After all, they ARE the
words of Jesus.
I don't know of any catholics that don't get hungry.
John 6:53 is literal according to the rcc.
Why do they not want John 6:35 to be literal.
It's in the same chapter.
We do.
"At least when right-wingers rant, there's a point."
Ann Coulter
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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