| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"stone" |
| Date: |
20 Sep 2003 04:00:45 AM |
| Object: |
Transubstantiation Error |
During the mass, priests allegedly have the power to supernaturally
turn the bread and wine into the actual and literal body and blood of
Jesus Christ:
Quote from the 1994 catechism of the catholic church
"The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring:
"Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he
was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the
conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares
again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes
place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance
of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine
into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church
has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation." Pg. 347, #1376.
This Catechism quote reveals that the Catholic church still adheres to
this doctrine which was defined at the Council of Trent:
Excerpt from Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones
The Bible and the Holy Spirit of God, commands that Christians must
abstain from the eating or drinking of blood.
Look at these scriptures from the New Testament, the Word of God:
Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered,
saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which
from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from
pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled,
and from blood.
Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also
tell you the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay
upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from
blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if
ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
If transubstantiation were really true, and the wine really became the
blood of Jesus, then you are disobeying God and the Holy Spirit, if
you drink it.
If the wine does not really become the blood of Jesus, then
transubstantiation is a hoax, and the catholic church has been telling
lies about it.
I believe this to be true: Transubstantiation is a hoax; the bread and
wine does not really become the actual body and blood of Jesus and the
whole concept of the catholic mass is not necessary for salvation.
.
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| User: "Christopher Robin" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 07:58:24 AM |
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"stone" <stone_2003@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:5cfa0b68.0309200100.4fe6463e@posting.google.com...
During the mass, priests allegedly have the power to supernaturally
turn the bread and wine into the actual and literal body and blood of
Jesus Christ:
Nope... GOD has the power. Your entire argument fails because you are wrong
at the beginning. The priests do not have 'the power to supernaturally turn
the bread and wine into the actual and literal body and blood of Jesus
Christ'. GOD has the power to change the SUBSTANCE (and the actuality if He
so desired)...
.
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| User: "J.B." |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 09:28:07 AM |
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"stone" <stone_2003@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:5cfa0b68.0309200100.4fe6463e@posting.google.com...
During the mass, priests allegedly have the power to supernaturally
turn the bread and wine into the actual and literal body and blood of
Jesus Christ:
Quote from the 1994 catechism of the catholic church
"The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring:
"Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he
was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the
conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares
again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes
place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance
of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine
into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church
has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation." Pg. 347, #1376.
This Catechism quote reveals that the Catholic church still adheres to
this doctrine which was defined at the Council of Trent:
Excerpt from Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones
The Bible and the Holy Spirit of God, commands that Christians must
abstain from the eating or drinking of blood.
Look at these scriptures from the New Testament, the Word of God:
Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered,
saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which
from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from
pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled,
and from blood.
Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also
tell you the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay
upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from
blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if
ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
If transubstantiation were really true, and the wine really became the
blood of Jesus, then you are disobeying God and the Holy Spirit, if
you drink it.
If the wine does not really become the blood of Jesus, then
transubstantiation is a hoax, and the catholic church has been telling
lies about it.
I believe this to be true: Transubstantiation is a hoax; the bread and
wine does not really become the actual body and blood of Jesus and the
whole concept of the catholic mass is not necessary for salvation.
I don't know anything about it but I have a question that is hunting me
since I was in my early years of Church attendance: how come only the Priest
get to drink the wine?
.
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| User: "Christopher Robin" |
|
| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 09:57:58 AM |
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"J.B." <amoreinfinito2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XtZab.12769$Ej.1870593@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
"stone" <stone_2003@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:5cfa0b68.0309200100.4fe6463e@posting.google.com...
During the mass, priests allegedly have the power to supernaturally
turn the bread and wine into the actual and literal body and blood of
Jesus Christ:
Quote from the 1994 catechism of the catholic church
"The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring:
"Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he
was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the
conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares
again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes
place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance
of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine
into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church
has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation." Pg. 347, #1376.
This Catechism quote reveals that the Catholic church still adheres to
this doctrine which was defined at the Council of Trent:
Excerpt from Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones
The Bible and the Holy Spirit of God, commands that Christians must
abstain from the eating or drinking of blood.
Look at these scriptures from the New Testament, the Word of God:
Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered,
saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which
from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from
pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled,
and from blood.
Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also
tell you the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay
upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from
blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if
ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
If transubstantiation were really true, and the wine really became the
blood of Jesus, then you are disobeying God and the Holy Spirit, if
you drink it.
If the wine does not really become the blood of Jesus, then
transubstantiation is a hoax, and the catholic church has been telling
lies about it.
I believe this to be true: Transubstantiation is a hoax; the bread and
wine does not really become the actual body and blood of Jesus and the
whole concept of the catholic mass is not necessary for salvation.
I don't know anything about it but I have a question that is hunting me
since I was in my early years of Church attendance: how come only the
Priest
get to drink the wine?
Come to mass more regularly - I can receive wine at EVERY mass I go to. And
that's in about 1/2 a dozen different parishes.
.
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| User: "J.B." |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 01:09:41 PM |
|
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"Christopher Robin" <anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WVZab.36939$xx4.3776978@twister.neo.rr.com...
"J.B." <amoreinfinito2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XtZab.12769$Ej.1870593@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
"stone" <stone_2003@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:5cfa0b68.0309200100.4fe6463e@posting.google.com...
During the mass, priests allegedly have the power to supernaturally
turn the bread and wine into the actual and literal body and blood of
Jesus Christ:
Quote from the 1994 catechism of the catholic church
"The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring:
"Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he
was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the
conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares
again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes
place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance
of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine
into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church
has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation." Pg. 347, #1376.
This Catechism quote reveals that the Catholic church still adheres to
this doctrine which was defined at the Council of Trent:
Excerpt from Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones
The Bible and the Holy Spirit of God, commands that Christians must
abstain from the eating or drinking of blood.
Look at these scriptures from the New Testament, the Word of God:
Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered,
saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which
from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from
pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled,
and from blood.
Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also
tell you the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay
upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from
blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if
ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
If transubstantiation were really true, and the wine really became the
blood of Jesus, then you are disobeying God and the Holy Spirit, if
you drink it.
If the wine does not really become the blood of Jesus, then
transubstantiation is a hoax, and the catholic church has been telling
lies about it.
I believe this to be true: Transubstantiation is a hoax; the bread and
wine does not really become the actual body and blood of Jesus and the
whole concept of the catholic mass is not necessary for salvation.
I don't know anything about it but I have a question that is hunting me
since I was in my early years of Church attendance: how come only the
Priest
get to drink the wine?
Come to mass more regularly - I can receive wine at EVERY mass I go to.
And
that's in about 1/2 a dozen different parishes.
Do you live in an area where you pay more taxes?
.
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| User: "Edward Curtis" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 01:42:05 PM |
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In article <FJ0bb.12852$Ej.1884242@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, J.B. says...
Come to mass more regularly - I can receive wine at EVERY mass I go to.
And
that's in about 1/2 a dozen different parishes.
Do you live in an area where you pay more taxes?
What, pray tell, does that have to do with whether one receives Communion
under one or both species?
Edward
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| User: "billu" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 07:02:37 AM |
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"stone" <stone_2003@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:5cfa0b68.0309200100.4fe6463e@posting.google.com...
During the mass, priests allegedly have the power to supernaturally
turn the bread and wine into the actual and literal body and blood of
Jesus Christ:
Quote from the 1994 catechism of the catholic church
"The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring:
"Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he
was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the
conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares
again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes
place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance
of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine
into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church
has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation." Pg. 347, #1376.
This Catechism quote reveals that the Catholic church still adheres to
this doctrine which was defined at the Council of Trent:
Excerpt from Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones
The Bible and the Holy Spirit of God, commands that Christians must
abstain from the eating or drinking of blood.
Look at these scriptures from the New Testament, the Word of God:
Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered,
saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which
from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from
pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled,
and from blood.
Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also
tell you the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay
upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from
blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if
ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
If transubstantiation were really true, and the wine really became the
blood of Jesus, then you are disobeying God and the Holy Spirit, if
you drink it.
If the wine does not really become the blood of Jesus, then
transubstantiation is a hoax, and the catholic church has been telling
lies about it.
I believe this to be true: Transubstantiation is a hoax; the bread and
wine does not really become the actual body and blood of Jesus and the
whole concept of the catholic mass is not necessary for salvation.
Well the Church disagrees with you and has for 2000 years You are not the
first to make this erronious argument nor will you be the last. You are
right
up there with the Romans that accused the early Christians of Cannibalism
following your exact erronious logic.
.
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| User: "Bob Pease" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 11:12:14 AM |
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"stone" <stone_2003@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:5cfa0b68.0309200100.4fe6463e@posting.google.com...
During the mass, priests allegedly have the power to supernaturally
turn the bread and wine into the actual and literal body and blood of
Jesus Christ:
Quote from the 1994 catechism of the catholic church
"The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring:
"Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he
was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the
conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares
again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes
place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance
of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine
into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church
has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation." Pg. 347, #1376.
This Catechism quote reveals that the Catholic church still adheres to
this doctrine which was defined at the Council of Trent:
Excerpt from Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones
The Bible and the Holy Spirit of God, commands that Christians must
abstain from the eating or drinking of blood.
Look at these scriptures from the New Testament, the Word of God:
Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered,
saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which
from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from
pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled,
and from blood.
Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also
tell you the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay
upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from
blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if
ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
If transubstantiation were really true, and the wine really became the
blood of Jesus, then you are disobeying God and the Holy Spirit, if
you drink it.
three demerits
Circular argument from Manufactured definitions and appeal to bogus
authority ( bible verses ) ...."Drinking Idol offerings proves
Transubstatiation is idolatry because Transubstantiation requires dinking
of potions offered to idols"...
If the wine does not really become the blood of Jesus, then
transubstantiation is a hoax, and the catholic church has been telling
lies about it.
It may not be a hoax but rather a delusion.
Actulaay the Hare Krishna cult of Hinduism has similar notions about the
true nature of the Jaganath idol that they use in their rituals.
I suggest reading up on the constructs of Substance, Properties, Accidents,
etc .
They may be deluded, but assignment of motive to lie is somewhat harsh.
Most accusations are of "Sophistry"
in this case, it is asking you to believe something for which there Cannot
be proof.
I believe this to be true: Transubstantiation is a hoax; the bread and
wine does not really become the actual body and blood of Jesus and the
whole concept of the catholic mass is not necessary for salvation.
However, it MAY be sufficient, if sincerely believed.
Bob Pease
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| User: "Don" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 12:45:48 PM |
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On 20 Sep 2003 16:12:14 GMT, "Bob Pease"
<bobnospampease@concentric.net> wrote:
I believe this to be true: Transubstantiation is a hoax; the bread and
wine does not really become the actual body and blood of Jesus and the
whole concept of the catholic mass is not necessary for salvation.
However, it MAY be sufficient, if sincerely believed.
I believed I was going to win the Texas Lottery last week. I believed
sincerely...but it was not sufficient!
However a couple of years ago, a Catholic Nun DID win the Lottery.
Was she more sincere than I?
D*
"We ain't gone be po no mo."
- - Pastor Greg Powe, Atlanta
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| User: "Bob Pease" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 12:56:05 PM |
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"Don" <calldonREMOVEIT@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ve4pmv4cml4lfd0qm5qtp1qiovs78p4eui@4ax.com...
On 20 Sep 2003 16:12:14 GMT, "Bob Pease"
<bobnospampease@concentric.net> wrote:
I believe this to be true: Transubstantiation is a hoax; the bread and
wine does not really become the actual body and blood of Jesus and the
whole concept of the catholic mass is not necessary for salvation.
However, it MAY be sufficient, if sincerely believed.
I believed I was going to win the Texas Lottery last week. I believed
sincerely...but it was not sufficient!
However a couple of years ago, a Catholic Nun DID win the Lottery.
Was she more sincere than I?
Huh?
LOGIC ERROR Please reboot!!!
I said it ***MAY*** be sufficient.
the second one follows, provided you define Salvation as winning the Texas
Lottery.
Also I am sincere in believing that you are fibbing when you said you really
believed that you were going to win the Texas lottery.
That makes me cynical, but sincere.
However that does not guarantee my salvation at all.
RJ Pease
.
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| User: "Iconoclast" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 01:48:22 PM |
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"Bob Pease" <bobnospampease@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:bki4bl$2g8@dispatch.concentric.net...
"Don" <calldonREMOVEIT@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ve4pmv4cml4lfd0qm5qtp1qiovs78p4eui@4ax.com...
On 20 Sep 2003 16:12:14 GMT, "Bob Pease"
<bobnospampease@concentric.net> wrote:
I believe this to be true: Transubstantiation is a hoax; the bread
and
wine does not really become the actual body and blood of Jesus and
the
whole concept of the catholic mass is not necessary for salvation.
However, it MAY be sufficient, if sincerely believed.
I believed I was going to win the Texas Lottery last week. I believed
sincerely...but it was not sufficient!
However a couple of years ago, a Catholic Nun DID win the Lottery.
Was she more sincere than I?
Huh?
LOGIC ERROR Please reboot!!!
I said it ***MAY*** be sufficient.
the second one follows, provided you define Salvation as winning the Texas
Lottery.
Also I am sincere in believing that you are fibbing when you said you
really
believed that you were going to win the Texas lottery.
That makes me cynical, but sincere.
However that does not guarantee my salvation at all.
RJ Pease
Bowing three times before a statue of the Catholic goddess, genuflecting and
masturbating "MAY" be sufficient.
Chance, pure unadulterated chance.
or the big bad word to Baptists, "luck".
.
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| User: "Willie" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error -I don't think so! |
23 Sep 2003 12:43:41 PM |
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Christopher Robin
"ELMATT" <romraidrmysocks@vianet.ca> wrote in message
news:vmrofl2h4ovffd@corp.supernews.com...
x-no-archive: yes
"Christopher Robin" Willy, actually........<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com>
wrote
in message news:_0kbb.41911$xx4.4676225@twister.neo.rr.com...
"ELMATT" <romraidrmysocks@vianet.ca> wrote in message
news:vmre7phup4ac43@corp.supernews.com...
x-no-archive: yes
No you don't. You consume baked, embossed manmade wafers and wine.
Blessed by GOD and infused with HIS Presence.
No ------ they are merely wafers, and wine........ no special blessing has
been given either item.
Pity you reject God's blessings simply because you don't agree...
They are symbolic elements, used to remember our Lord's torture and
murder.
Used to do as Jesus taught us.... As has been done for the past nearly 2000
years since His death.
It is God that transforms the bread and wine into the Body and
Blood.
God does no such thing.
Pity you limit God...
I don't limit God in any way, shape or form, Willy.
Apparently you do, if you deny the POSSIBILITY of the Real Presence.
Now I'm "Willy"? Interesting... you just can't seem to decide who I am...
Why not just go with Christopher, since that's the name on my posts? You
demanded such things for quite some time according to google...
Hi Chris, I'm Willie, nice speaking to myself.
Chuckle
Keep up the good job.
"Willie"
.
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| User: "Christopher Robin" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error -I don't think so! |
23 Sep 2003 02:55:35 PM |
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"Willie" <trautw@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BB95D489.4651%trautw@comcast.net...
Christopher Robin
"ELMATT" <romraidrmysocks@vianet.ca> wrote in message
news:vmrofl2h4ovffd@corp.supernews.com...
x-no-archive: yes
"Christopher Robin" Willy, actually........<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com>
wrote
in message news:_0kbb.41911$xx4.4676225@twister.neo.rr.com...
"ELMATT" <romraidrmysocks@vianet.ca> wrote in message
news:vmre7phup4ac43@corp.supernews.com...
x-no-archive: yes
No you don't. You consume baked, embossed manmade wafers and wine.
Blessed by GOD and infused with HIS Presence.
No ------ they are merely wafers, and wine........ no special blessing
has
been given either item.
Pity you reject God's blessings simply because you don't agree...
They are symbolic elements, used to remember our Lord's torture and
murder.
Used to do as Jesus taught us.... As has been done for the past nearly
2000
years since His death.
It is God that transforms the bread and wine into the Body and
Blood.
God does no such thing.
Pity you limit God...
I don't limit God in any way, shape or form, Willy.
Apparently you do, if you deny the POSSIBILITY of the Real Presence.
Now I'm "Willy"? Interesting... you just can't seem to decide who I
am...
Why not just go with Christopher, since that's the name on my posts?
You
demanded such things for quite some time according to google...
Hi Chris, I'm Willie, nice speaking to myself.
Chuckle
LOL :-) That's Elaine for ya - every so often she decides you are someone
else... a few weeks ago I was Earl Webber.
.
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| User: "Mark Gerard Miller" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 12:04:34 PM |
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I agree with this. I don't know why it would have to go into a Baptist
newsgroup, but I agree with it. Another question that arises, did all
those priests who molested those children truly work the miracle of
transubstantiation, if transubstantiation were real? I think not.
Mark
stone_2003@cheerful.com (stone) wrote in message news:<5cfa0b68.0309200100.4fe6463e@posting.google.com>...
During the mass, priests allegedly have the power to supernaturally
turn the bread and wine into the actual and literal body and blood of
Jesus Christ:
Quote from the 1994 catechism of the catholic church
"The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring:
"Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he
was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the
conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares
again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes
place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance
of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine
into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church
has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation." Pg. 347, #1376.
This Catechism quote reveals that the Catholic church still adheres to
this doctrine which was defined at the Council of Trent:
Excerpt from Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones
The Bible and the Holy Spirit of God, commands that Christians must
abstain from the eating or drinking of blood.
Look at these scriptures from the New Testament, the Word of God:
Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered,
saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which
from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from
pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled,
and from blood.
Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also
tell you the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay
upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from
blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if
ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
If transubstantiation were really true, and the wine really became the
blood of Jesus, then you are disobeying God and the Holy Spirit, if
you drink it.
If the wine does not really become the blood of Jesus, then
transubstantiation is a hoax, and the catholic church has been telling
lies about it.
I believe this to be true: Transubstantiation is a hoax; the bread and
wine does not really become the actual body and blood of Jesus and the
whole concept of the catholic mass is not necessary for salvation.
.
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| User: "Christopher Robin" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 12:18:10 PM |
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"Mark Gerard Miller" <mark_g_miller@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea790d2a.0309200904.5c018aa3@posting.google.com...
I agree with this. I don't know why it would have to go into a Baptist
newsgroup, but I agree with it.
Another question that arises, did all those priests who molested those
children truly work the miracle of
transubstantiation, if transubstantiation were real? I think not.
AH, the dual fallacy of it being the PRIEST that works a miracle AND the
fallacy of one must be sinless to work a miracle.
CLUE for the clueless: GOD works miracles THROUGH people... even people
who sin. Peter, & Paul both sinned, yet God worked miracles through them...
Thanks for showing that you really are clueless.
.
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| User: "Bob Pease" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 01:04:57 PM |
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"Mark Gerard Miller" <mark_g_miller@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea790d2a.0309200904.5c018aa3@posting.google.com...
I agree with this. I don't know why it would have to go into a Baptist
newsgroup, but I agree with it. Another question that arises, did all
those priests who molested those children truly work the miracle of
transubstantiation, if transubstantiation were real? I think not.
Mark
stone_2003@cheerful.com (stone) wrote in message
news:<5cfa0b68.0309200100.4fe6463e@posting.google.com>...
During the mass, priests allegedly have the power to supernaturally
turn the bread and wine into the actual and literal body and blood of
Jesus Christ:
Quote from the 1994 catechism of the catholic church
"The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring:
"Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he
was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the
conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares
again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes
place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance
of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine
into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church
has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation." Pg. 347, #1376.
This Catechism quote reveals that the Catholic church still adheres to
this doctrine which was defined at the Council of Trent:
Excerpt from Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones
The Bible and the Holy Spirit of God, commands that Christians must
abstain from the eating or drinking of blood.
Look at these scriptures from the New Testament, the Word of God:
Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered,
saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which
from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from
pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled,
and from blood.
Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also
tell you the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay
upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from
blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if
ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
If transubstantiation were really true, and the wine really became the
blood of Jesus, then you are disobeying God and the Holy Spirit, if
you drink it.
If the wine does not really become the blood of Jesus, then
transubstantiation is a hoax, and the catholic church has been telling
lies about it.
I believe this to be true: Transubstantiation is a hoax; the bread and
wine does not really become the actual body and blood of Jesus and the
whole concept of the catholic mass is not necessary for salvation.
you are making a judgment on the motives of priests, and saying nothing
about the real issue.
Th OP cross posted it to a Baptist ng. usually doe either to catch the
response from OP or to try to grab wide exposure for off-topic or dreck.
Please don't top post,,it's difficult to respond so that anyone else can
figure out the sequence of postings.
Thank you
Bob Pease
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| User: "Edward Curtis" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Sep 2003 01:45:37 PM |
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In article <ea790d2a.0309200904.5c018aa3@posting.google.com>, Mark Gerard
Miller says...
I agree with this. I don't know why it would have to go into a Baptist
newsgroup, but I agree with it. Another question that arises, did all
those priests who molested those children truly work the miracle of
transubstantiation, if transubstantiation were real? I think not.
Since all Catholic priests are sinners to a lesser or greater extent,
just like all the Catholics in the pews, the Church discerned that
whether transubstantiation occurs is not dependent on how worthy the
priest is. It is, rather, entirely dependent on Christ's promise in John
6, "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I
will raise him up on the last day."
Edward
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| User: "stone" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
19 Oct 2003 07:58:14 PM |
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Edward Curtis <mrzoom70@colisp.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.19d815a55971f5e2989772@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
In article <5cfa0b68.0309211701.6b47a75a@posting.google.com>, stone
says...
By sucker I
mean an easily deceived, gullible person.
Like people who believe what Jack Chick writes about the Catholic
Church...
I was raised a catholic; grade school, high school and college were
all catholic. I live in the most catholic city in America, New
Orleans, where the pagan debauchery of carnival happens in the streets
with parades named after false pagan gods and satan himself. I know
catholicism and what they teach very well. The writings of Jack Chick
on catholicism are accurate. He uses former catholics, that converted
to real Christianity, to provide him with information for his
writings.
.
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| User: "Christopher Robin" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Oct 2003 04:43:15 AM |
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"stone" <stone_2003@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:5cfa0b68.0310191658.e08ee5c@posting.google.com...
Edward Curtis <mrzoom70@colisp.com> wrote in message
news:<MPG.19d815a55971f5e2989772@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
In article <5cfa0b68.0309211701.6b47a75a@posting.google.com>, stone
says...
By sucker I
mean an easily deceived, gullible person.
Like people who believe what Jack Chick writes about the Catholic
Church...
I was raised a catholic; grade school, high school and college were
all catholic. I live in the most catholic city in America, New
Orleans, where the pagan debauchery of carnival happens in the streets
with parades named after false pagan gods and satan himself. I know
catholicism and what they teach very well. The writings of Jack Chick
on catholicism are accurate. He uses former catholics, that converted
to real Christianity, to provide him with information for his
writings.
The writings of Jack Chick are the most hatefilled nonsense there are...
.
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| User: "Doc Watson" |
|
| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Oct 2003 02:54:33 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:43:15 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these
here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
"stone" <stone_2003@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:5cfa0b68.0310191658.e08ee5c@posting.google.com...
Edward Curtis <mrzoom70@colisp.com> wrote in message
news:<MPG.19d815a55971f5e2989772@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
In article <5cfa0b68.0309211701.6b47a75a@posting.google.com>, stone
says...
By sucker I
mean an easily deceived, gullible person.
Like people who believe what Jack Chick writes about the Catholic
Church...
I was raised a catholic; grade school, high school and college were
all catholic. I live in the most catholic city in America, New
Orleans, where the pagan debauchery of carnival happens in the streets
with parades named after false pagan gods and satan himself. I know
catholicism and what they teach very well. The writings of Jack Chick
on catholicism are accurate. He uses former catholics, that converted
to real Christianity, to provide him with information for his
writings.
The writings of Jack Chick are the most hatefilled nonsense there are...
sure, sure- so says a typical roman catholic who abhors the truth
being known.............
--
===================================================================
No wonder they call the DOG 'man's best friend' ...
a DOG wags his tail instead of his tongue.
Please visit: http://tinyurl.com/lzxm
==================================================================
.
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| User: "Christopher Robin" |
|
| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Oct 2003 03:01:38 PM |
|
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"Doc Watson" <nospam@noway.nohow.period> wrote in message
news:laf8pv4clu139tt9g74jmssfifh3el00s2@4ax.com...
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:43:15 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these
here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
"stone" <stone_2003@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:5cfa0b68.0310191658.e08ee5c@posting.google.com...
Edward Curtis <mrzoom70@colisp.com> wrote in message
news:<MPG.19d815a55971f5e2989772@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
In article <5cfa0b68.0309211701.6b47a75a@posting.google.com>, stone
says...
By sucker I
mean an easily deceived, gullible person.
Like people who believe what Jack Chick writes about the Catholic
Church...
I was raised a catholic; grade school, high school and college were
all catholic. I live in the most catholic city in America, New
Orleans, where the pagan debauchery of carnival happens in the streets
with parades named after false pagan gods and satan himself. I know
catholicism and what they teach very well. The writings of Jack Chick
on catholicism are accurate. He uses former catholics, that converted
to real Christianity, to provide him with information for his
writings.
The writings of Jack Chick are the most hatefilled nonsense there are...
sure, sure- so says a typical roman catholic who abhors the truth
being known.............
Christianity Today and many other organizations distance themselves from
hate mongers like Jack Chick... it's not surprising that you support him,
Elaine.
.
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| User: "oz" |
|
| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
19 Oct 2003 09:03:53 PM |
|
|
In article <5cfa0b68.0310191658.e08ee5c@posting.google.com>,
stone_2003@cheerful.com (stone) wrote:
Edward Curtis <mrzoom70@colisp.com> wrote in message
news:<MPG.19d815a55971f5e2989772@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
In article <5cfa0b68.0309211701.6b47a75a@posting.google.com>, stone
says...
By sucker I
mean an easily deceived, gullible person.
Like people who believe what Jack Chick writes about the Catholic
Church...
I was raised a catholic; grade school, high school and college were
all catholic. I live in the most catholic city in America, New
Orleans, where the pagan debauchery of carnival happens in the streets
with parades named after false pagan gods and satan himself. I know
catholicism and what they teach very well. The writings of Jack Chick
on catholicism are accurate. He uses former catholics, that converted
to real Christianity, to provide him with information for his
writings.
This is such a pile of crap that I presume you are a fraud
.
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| User: "John W" |
|
| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Oct 2003 02:20:09 PM |
|
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:03:53 +1100, (oz)
wrotex-no-archive:yes:
In article <5cfa0b68.0310191658.e08ee5c@posting.google.com>,
stone_2003@cheerful.com (stone) wrote:
Edward Curtis <mrzoom70@colisp.com> wrote in message
news:<MPG.19d815a55971f5e2989772@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
In article <5cfa0b68.0309211701.6b47a75a@posting.google.com>, stone
says...
By sucker I
mean an easily deceived, gullible person.
Like people who believe what Jack Chick writes about the Catholic
Church...
I was raised a catholic; grade school, high school and college were
all catholic. I live in the most catholic city in America, New
Orleans, where the pagan debauchery of carnival happens in the streets
with parades named after false pagan gods and satan himself. I know
catholicism and what they teach very well. The writings of Jack Chick
on catholicism are accurate. He uses former catholics, that converted
to real Christianity, to provide him with information for his
writings.
This is such a pile of crap that I presume you are a fraud
See, everyone? oz is so consumed by hatred that he attacks Everyone
with a Christian point of view, not just me.
John W
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
.
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| User: "oz" |
|
| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Oct 2003 05:12:52 PM |
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|
In article <d9d8pv0v1pk5lf4s4j9ssm7i2oqi3ie04e@4ax.com>, John W
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
See, everyone? oz is so consumed by hatred that he attacks Everyone
with a Christian point of view, not just me.
John W
Only following bullying such as this
n article <mg94pvk9tirtjqjh3vqd3ukghtplnvol8j@4ax.com>, John W
<john_weatherly<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Watch your back, hater. Some other bigot will get tired of YOUR
bigotry and solve my problem FOR me.
John W
John cannot handle disagreement
.
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| User: "John W" |
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| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Oct 2003 02:19:12 PM |
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On 19 Oct 2003 17:58:14 -0700, (stone)
wrotex-no-archive:yes:
Edward Curtis <mrzoom70@colisp.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.19d815a55971f5e2989772@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
In article <5cfa0b68.0309211701.6b47a75a@posting.google.com>, stone
says...
By sucker I
mean an easily deceived, gullible person.
Like people who believe what Jack Chick writes about the Catholic
Church...
I was raised a catholic; grade school, high school and college were
all catholic. I live in the most catholic city in America, New
Orleans, where the pagan debauchery of carnival happens in the streets
with parades named after false pagan gods and satan himself. I know
catholicism and what they teach very well. The writings of Jack Chick
on catholicism are accurate. He uses former catholics, that converted
to real Christianity, to provide him with information for his
writings.
Yeah. While I don't entirely go along with Chic's presentation,
understand that he is trying to be understood by EVERYBODY, including
people who are less educated than the mean education.
One of my concerns is that he is one of the King James Only Cultists,
and that is not a stand educated, informed people take.
John W
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
.
|
|
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| User: "Christopher Robin" |
|
| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Oct 2003 03:02:27 PM |
|
|
"John W @yahoo.com>" <john_weatherly47<no> wrote in message
news:76d8pv8cev2r04q2cevni6s82no1lhjl0j@4ax.com...
On 19 Oct 2003 17:58:14 -0700, (stone)
wrotex-no-archive:yes:
Edward Curtis <mrzoom70@colisp.com> wrote in message
news:<MPG.19d815a55971f5e2989772@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
In article <5cfa0b68.0309211701.6b47a75a@posting.google.com>, stone
says...
By sucker I
mean an easily deceived, gullible person.
Like people who believe what Jack Chick writes about the Catholic
Church...
I was raised a catholic; grade school, high school and college were
all catholic. I live in the most catholic city in America, New
Orleans, where the pagan debauchery of carnival happens in the streets
with parades named after false pagan gods and satan himself. I know
catholicism and what they teach very well. The writings of Jack Chick
on catholicism are accurate. He uses former catholics, that converted
to real Christianity, to provide him with information for his
writings.
Yeah. While I don't entirely go along with Chic's presentation,
understand that he is trying to be understood by EVERYBODY, including
people who are less educated than the mean education.
So he prints hate comics?
What a surprise, the two biggest hatemongers in the baptist newsgroup -
Elaine & John W. both support Jack Chick.
.
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| User: "Doc Watson" |
|
| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Oct 2003 09:32:27 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:02:27 GMT, "Christopher Robin"
<anonyngaddr@hotmail.com> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these
here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
What a surprise, the two biggest hatemongers in the baptist newsgroup -
Elaine & John W. both support Jack Chick.
Aw, gee----- poor little WILLY!!!!!
you upset at me because I'm about to check out Chickee???
Oh00 good.
This must REALLY mean I'm onto something TRUTHFUL, knowing how you
despise the truth being made known.
I shall approach the Chick site now with great GUSTO.
--
===================================================================
No wonder they call the DOG 'man's best friend' ...
a DOG wags his tail instead of his tongue.
Please visit: http://tinyurl.com/lzxm
==================================================================
.
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| User: "Doc Watson" |
|
| Title: Re: Transubstantiation Error |
20 Oct 2003 02:53:36 PM |
|
|
On 19 Oct 2003 17:58:14 -0700, (stone) done
went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little old Usenet
News'FROUPS:
Edward Curtis <mrzoom70@colisp.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.19d815a55971f5e2989772@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
In article <5cfa0b68.0309211701.6b47a75a@posting.google.com>, stone
says...
By sucker I
mean an easily deceived, gullible person.
Like people who believe what Jack Chick writes about the Catholic
Church...
I was raised a catholic; grade school, high school and college were
all catholic. I live in the most catholic city in America, New
Orleans, where the pagan debauchery of carnival happens in the streets
with parades named after false pagan gods and satan himself. I know
catholicism and what they teach very well. The writings of Jack Chick
on catholicism are accurate. He uses former catholics, that converted
to real Christianity, to provide him with information for his
writings.
This is highly interesting, Stone, and thank you.
Are you still a roman catholic, or did you leave it and go to another
denomination?
I do believe I will go and check out Jack Chick's writing then.
I never really bothered before, because so many people all said that
he was 'lying' about it.
There are certain roman catholics in here (Baptist group) who daily
falsely accuse me of lying too, so I didn't want to actually post any
lies..... for that reason I always avoided going to any sites with
Chick's writing in them.
Thank you and may God bless :o)
Doc
--
===================================================================
No wonder they call the DOG 'man's best friend' ...
a DOG wags his tail instead of his tongue.
Please visit: http://tinyurl.com/lzxm
==================================================================
.
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