Religions > Bible > Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Codebreaker" |
| Date: |
04 Jun 2007 09:04:30 PM |
| Object: |
Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
Without Regard To Context, Trinitarians Define Christianity in line
with their doctrines.
Prolegomenon.
The word Christian was coined in Antioch by the pagans as a
derogatory term for followers of Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
As you may know some Hebraic CHRISTIANS were persecuted
in Jerusalem for confessing Jesus as the Christ.
The persecuted fled in the vicinity to save their lives.
Majority were Jews and followers of Jesus.
A close examination of the issues settled during the Council of
Jerusalem
tells us much about their belief:
Jesus was the Messiah/Christ
Messiah was foretold in the Torah by Moses
Resurrection made clear that Jesus was.
The Law of Moses was perfect for the Gentiles
Law of Moses must be inforced among the Gentiles to clean them.
At this point, there was no doctrine of consubstantiation nor Trinity
or Son of God. It was all about whether or not Jesus was the Messiah
of Deuteronomy 18:15...
To be continued
--------
Anyone who thinks he can gaze at some old bones or rocks
and tell us the age of the universe is nothing but
a PRESDIGITITATOR
Codebreaker
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
04 Jun 2007 09:37:58 PM |
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"Codebreaker" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181009070.856466.132880@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Without Regard To Context, Trinitarians Define Christianity in line
with their doctrines.
All Christians define Christianity with their doctrines
Prolegomenon.
The word Christian was coined in Antioch by the pagans as a
derogatory term for followers of Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
Although the first use is in Acts 11:26, it does not say that it was the
pagans who coined the word. see
http://www.gospelgazette.com/gazette/2004/jun/page3.htm
[snip]
--------
Anyone who thinks he can gaze at some old bones or rocks
and tell us the age of the universe is nothing but
a PRESDIGITITATOR
No .. he's called a scientist
.
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
08 Jun 2007 12:30:12 PM |
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On Jun 4, 10:37 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181009070.856466.132880@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Without Regard To Context, Trinitarians Define Christianity in line
with their doctrines.
All Christians define Christianity with their doctrines
Prolegomenon.
The word Christian was coined in Antioch by the pagans as a
derogatory term for followers of Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
Although the first use is in Acts 11:26, it does not say that it was the
pagans who coined the word.
It was meant to mock -see the context- and anything
deviced as a mockery can only come from an opposition
and here in the antiocian context, pagans were the adversaries.
seehttp://www.gospelgazette.com/gazette/2004/jun/page3.htm
[snip]
--------
Anyone who thinks he can gaze at some old bones or rocks
and tell us the age of the universe is nothing but
a PRESDIGITITATOR
No .. he's called a scientist
.
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
10 Jun 2007 10:38:55 AM |
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"Codebreaker" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181323812.391265.247020@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 4, 10:37 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181009070.856466.132880@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Without Regard To Context, Trinitarians Define Christianity in line
with their doctrines.
All Christians define Christianity with their doctrines
Prolegomenon.
The word Christian was coined in Antioch by the pagans as a
derogatory term for followers of Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
Although the first use is in Acts 11:26, it does not say that it was the
pagans who coined the word.
It was meant to mock -see the context-
ok .. let see:
====
19Now those who had been scattered by the persecution in connection with
Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, telling the
message only to Jews. 20Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene,
went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good
news about the Lord Jesus. 21The Lord's hand was with them, and a great
number of people believed and turned to the Lord.
22News of this reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent
Barnabas to Antioch. 23When he arrived and saw the evidence of the grace of
God, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all
their hearts. 24He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a
great number of people were brought to the Lord.
25Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26and when he found him,
he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with
the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called
Christians first at Antioch.
27During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28One
of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a
severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened
during the reign of Claudius.) 29The disciples, each according to his
ability, decided to provide help for the brothers living in Judea. 30This
they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.
====
No mocking there.
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
10 Jun 2007 05:35:07 PM |
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Jeckyl wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181323812.391265.247020@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 4, 10:37 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181009070.856466.132880@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Without Regard To Context, Trinitarians Define Christianity in line
with their doctrines.
All Christians define Christianity with their doctrines
Prolegomenon.
The word Christian was coined in Antioch by the pagans as a
derogatory term for followers of Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
Although the first use is in Acts 11:26, it does not say that it was the
pagans who coined the word.
It was meant to mock -see the context-
ok .. let see:
====
19Now those who had been scattered by the persecution in connection with
Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, telling the
message only to Jews. 20Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene,
went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good
news about the Lord Jesus. 21The Lord's hand was with them, and a great
number of people believed and turned to the Lord.
22News of this reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent
Barnabas to Antioch. 23When he arrived and saw the evidence of the grace of
God, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all
their hearts. 24He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a
great number of people were brought to the Lord.
25Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26and when he found him,
he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with
the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called
Christians first at Antioch.
A broad history of Christianity and a sound biblical exesegis
agree with my point. There is no need to beat the dead horse.
Pagans first used the word Christian to belittle followers of Christ
27During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28One
of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a
severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened
during the reign of Claudius.) 29The disciples, each according to his
ability, decided to provide help for the brothers living in Judea. 30This
they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.
====
No mocking there.
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
10 Jun 2007 09:43:11 PM |
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"Codebreaker" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181514907.464494.172440@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Although the first use is in Acts 11:26, it does not say that it was
the
pagans who coined the word.
It was meant to mock -see the context-
So .. I looked at the context .. and ther ewas no mocking.
A broad history of Christianity and a sound biblical exesegis
agree with my point. There is no need to beat the dead horse.
Pagans first used the word Christian to belittle followers of Christ
How could calling a follower of christ "christian" be belittleing them?
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
13 Jun 2007 03:54:52 PM |
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On Jun 10, 10:43 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181514907.464494.172440@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Although the first use is in Acts 11:26, it does not say that it was
the
pagans who coined the word.
It was meant to mock -see the context-
So .. I looked at the context .. and ther ewas no mocking.
A broad history of Christianity and a sound biblical exesegis
agree with my point. There is no need to beat the dead horse.
Pagans first used the word Christian to belittle followers of Christ
How could calling a follower of christ "christian" be belittleing them?
Because the Jews, the main persecutors had
spread rumors everywhere that the Messiah that is
to say Christ, had not come yet, and that
Jesus was not the Messiah and that his followers
were deluded. This is the logic behind the name simpleton
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
13 Jun 2007 11:07:22 PM |
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On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:54:52 -0700, Codebreaker
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote:
On Jun 10, 10:43 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
How could calling a follower of christ "christian" be belittleing them?
Because the Jews, the main persecutors had
spread rumors everywhere that the Messiah that is
to say Christ, had not come yet, and that
Jesus was not the Messiah and that his followers
were deluded. This is the logic behind the name simpleton
So you're maintaining that it was the JEWS, not the Romans, who fed
Christians to the lions and made them fight gladiators with no
weapons.
There goes your last claim to sanity.
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
14 Jun 2007 02:00:50 PM |
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On Jun 14, 12:07 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:54:52 -0700, Codebreaker
<Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:
On Jun 10, 10:43 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
How could calling a follower of christ "christian" be belittleing them?
Because the Jews, the main persecutors had
spread rumors everywhere that the Messiah that is
to say Christ, had not come yet, and that
Jesus was not the Messiah and that his followers
were deluded. This is the logic behind the name simpleton
So you're maintaining that it was the JEWS, not the Romans, who fed
Christians to the lions and made them fight gladiators with no
weapons.
There goes your last claim to sanity.
You see how you are always besides the point.
To speak about the persecutions of the Christians
why it has to be the Romans persecution versus the Jews
persecution and why it can't be both at the same time.
Beside the Roman persecution is not reported
in the Acts of the Apostles, but the jews persecution is,
so of course it is biblical, and you need to read the document
and make sense of it instead of trying to guess.
The roman persecution did not break out because of Moses Law
and how best to read it, it broke out because the Christians
refused to worship the gods of the Empire and refused
to honor any one else with the title Son of God.
Many a time your deluded historians tend to skip the
persecution in Jerusalem while sometimes focusing too
much on that of Rome
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
14 Jun 2007 08:17:39 PM |
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On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:00:50 -0700, Codebreaker
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote:
On Jun 14, 12:07 am, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:54:52 -0700, Codebreaker
<Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:
On Jun 10, 10:43 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
How could calling a follower of christ "christian" be belittleing them?
Because the Jews, the main persecutors had
spread rumors everywhere that the Messiah that is
to say Christ, had not come yet, and that
Jesus was not the Messiah and that his followers
were deluded. This is the logic behind the name simpleton
So you're maintaining that it was the JEWS, not the Romans, who fed
Christians to the lions and made them fight gladiators with no
weapons.
There goes your last claim to sanity.
You see how you are always besides the point.
To speak about the persecutions of the Christians
why it has to be the Romans persecution versus the Jews
persecution
Because it was the Romans persecuting them, so talking about the Jews'
persecution of Christians is just evidence that you need a few clues
to be clueless. Christian anti-Semitism (which is all Christian
claims of Jewish persecution are) didn't exist until non-Jewish
Christianity did - in the fourth century.
and why it can't be both at the same time.
Because the Jews didn't persecute the Christians. In the first
century, the Christians WERE Jews. The religion YOU call Christianity
was invented in the fourth century.
Beside the Roman persecution is not reported
in the Acts of the Apostles
I'm talking about what happened, not what was in a fairy tale that was
put into final form 300 years after the "facts" it "reported" on.
The roman persecution did not break out because of Moses Law
and how best to read it, it broke out because the Christians
refused to worship the gods of the Empire and refused
to honor any one else with the title Son of God.
The Christians of the first century weren't worshipping "the son of
God" who wasn't mentioned until late in the second century. No one
had invented a time machine in the first century.
In the first century, the "anointed ones" were members of a Jewish
sect who believed that THEY were the Chreestos.
Many a time your deluded historians tend to skip the
persecution in Jerusalem while sometimes focusing too
much on that of Rome
Historians tend to "skip" things that have nothing to do with the
subject being studied - the reality of your myth, in this case.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
10 Jun 2007 08:04:21 PM |
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On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:35:07 -0700, Codebreaker
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote:
A broad history of Christianity
After the middle of the second century, not before.
and a sound biblical exesegis
Translation: a sound "making it say what we want it to say".
Pagans first used the word Christian to belittle followers of Christ
Citation other than your say-so or myths?
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
08 Jun 2007 12:41:34 PM |
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On Jun 4, 10:37 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181009070.856466.132880@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Without Regard To Context, Trinitarians Define Christianity in line
with their doctrines.
All Christians define Christianity with their doctrines
Prolegomenon.
The word Christian was coined in Antioch by the pagans as a
derogatory term for followers of Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
Although the first use is in Acts 11:26, it does not say that it was the
pagans who coined the word. seehttp://www.gospelgazette.com/gazette/2004/jun/page3.htm
I checked the link, but this guy is not trying
to report historical events but to make prophecies
fit in history according to his twisted exegesis.
He is not reliable and sound very much like
a Johevah Witness.
Again, the word Christians which was coined
by the pagans in Antioch was meant as aderogatory
term to belittle the followers of Christ, this is why
Peter had to write to the disciples to remind
them to accept the name as an honor and to not
grieve over it. See the "Catholic' EPISTLES
of Peter. "Catholic" because unlike Paul's
letters, Peter's letters were not addressed to any particular
Church
[snip]
--------
Anyone who thinks he can gaze at some old bones or rocks
and tell us the age of the universe is nothing but
a PRESDIGITITATOR
No .. he's called a scientist
.
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
10 Jun 2007 10:41:50 AM |
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"Codebreaker" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181324494.853166.105330@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Again, the word Christians which was coined
by the pagans in Antioch was meant as aderogatory
term to belittle the followers of Christ,
Proof .. it ceratinly doesn't show that in the bible.
this is why
Peter had to write to the disciples to remind
them to accept the name as an honor and to not
grieve over it.
Peter doesn't say that .. he says that is you suffer as a Christian, not to
be ashamed, and to be glad to be one
You seem to be inventing interpretations to suit your agenda. Not uncommon
for Christians to do.
.
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
10 Jun 2007 04:41:30 PM |
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On Jun 10, 11:41 am, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181324494.853166.105330@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Again, the word Christians which was coined
by the pagans in Antioch was meant as aderogatory
term to belittle the followers of Christ,
Proof .. it ceratinly doesn't show that in the bible.
Since then your claim became a proof?
Before the Bible there was History of the Church of Antioch
That the bible confirms
The fact that the Bible agrees with some extra biblical text
such as when the believers were first called Christians
and rest silent on other would not be narrowly
interpreted.
this is why
Peter had to write to the disciples to remind
them to accept the name as an honor and to not
grieve over it.
Peter doesn't say that .. he says that is you suffer as a Christian, not to
be ashamed, and to be glad to be one.
Why could not you post Peter as well?
You seem to be inventing interpretations to suit your agenda. Not uncommon
for Christians to do.
The name was not invented by Christians. It was not invented
by the Jews either as this would be like showing some respect
to Jesus as the Messiah/Christ that they denied.
The only possible group that could use the word Christian
to refer to Jesus followers were the pagans.
Christian were refering to themselves as brothers
disciples, saints etc.
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
10 Jun 2007 09:28:49 PM |
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"Codebreaker" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181511690.777709.184810@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 10, 11:41 am, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181324494.853166.105330@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Again, the word Christians which was coined
by the pagans in Antioch was meant as aderogatory
term to belittle the followers of Christ,
Proof .. it ceratinly doesn't show that in the bible.
Since then your claim became a proof?
That is what you were citing as proof.
Before the Bible there was History of the Church of Antioch
Link please.
That the bible confirms
The fact that the Bible agrees with some extra biblical text
such as when the believers were first called Christians
and rest silent on other would not be narrowly
interpreted.
Word salad
this is why
Peter had to write to the disciples to remind
them to accept the name as an honor and to not
grieve over it.
Peter doesn't say that .. he says that is you suffer as a Christian, not
to
be ashamed, and to be glad to be one.
Why could not you post Peter as well?
eh?
You seem to be inventing interpretations to suit your agenda. Not
uncommon
for Christians to do.
The name was not invented by Christians.
It was not invented by the Jews either as
this would be like showing some respect
to Jesus as the Messiah/Christ that they denied.
The only possible group that could use the word Christian
to refer to Jesus followers were the pagans.
Christian were refering to themselves as brothers
disciples, saints etc.
What does it matter .. given that they would not have used the word
'christian' anyway .. that's only a translation of a translation ... of what
they were called.
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
13 Jun 2007 03:47:21 PM |
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On Jun 10, 10:28 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181511690.777709.184810@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 10, 11:41 am, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181324494.853166.105330@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Again, the word Christians which was coined
by the pagans in Antioch was meant as aderogatory
term to belittle the followers of Christ,
Proof .. it ceratinly doesn't show that in the bible.
Since then your claim became a proof?
That is what you were citing as proof.
Before the Bible there was History of the Church of Antioch
Link please.
*****...
That the bible confirms
The fact that the Bible agrees with some extra biblical text
such as when the believers were first called Christians
and rest silent on other would not be narrowly
interpreted.
Word salad
Stop being a *****
this is why
Peter had to write to the disciples to remind
them to accept the name as an honor and to not
grieve over it.
Peter doesn't say that .. he says that is you suffer as a Christian, not
to
be ashamed, and to be glad to be one.
Why could not you post Peter as well?
eh?
Yeah... Eeeeeehh jerk
You seem to be inventing interpretations to suit your agenda. Not
uncommon
for Christians to do.
The name was not invented by Christians.
It was not invented by the Jews either as
this would be like showing some respect
to Jesus as the Messiah/Christ that they denied.
The only possible group that could use the word Christian
to refer to Jesus followers were the pagans.
Christian were refering to themselves as brothers
disciples, saints etc.
What does it matter .. given that they would not have used the word
'christian' anyway .. that's only a translation of a translation ... of what
they were called.
It matters simpleton...
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
13 Jun 2007 11:03:07 PM |
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On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:47:21 -0700, Codebreaker
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote:
On Jun 10, 10:28 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181511690.777709.184810@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 10, 11:41 am, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181324494.853166.105330@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Again, the word Christians which was coined
by the pagans in Antioch was meant as aderogatory
term to belittle the followers of Christ,
Proof .. it ceratinly doesn't show that in the bible.
Since then your claim became a proof?
That is what you were citing as proof.
Before the Bible there was History of the Church of Antioch
Link please.
*****...
He caught you making things up again, huh?
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
10 Jun 2007 05:31:34 PM |
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On Jun 10, 5:41 pm, Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:
Peter doesn't say that .. he says that is you suffer as a Christian, not to
be ashamed, and to be glad to be one.
Ok. But here is the bottom line. The rest was meant
as a detail and was not the main idea.The bottom line is that
Not every believer
in the first century confessed Jesus as the Son of God.
Yet all the believers were called Christians.
If confessing Jesus as the Son of God makes
one Christian then there was no Christian in the first
Century Jerusalem and not even in Antioch as
most believers were Jews from Judaism and the
Council of Jerusalem tell us that they had
problems being disloyal to Moses.
Calling Jesus Son Of God is breaking
the Law of Moses that they would not want to do.
Associating anything with God is a sin in Moses Law,
which Law some group of believers wanted to promote.
Yet this is what nowaday missionaries want us to believe.
They make it look as If everyone in Jerusalem
thought Jesus was the Son Of God.
Christian means followers of Christ and not neccessary
the one who believes Jesus is the Son Of God.
Muslims then fall in the same category that
of Hebrew Christians who believed that Jesus
was the Christ but referred to him as the GREAT
PROPHET and not as the Son Of God.
And If they were Christians, then the Muslims
also are Christians as the word
Christian has a broad meaning.
That was my point son of monkey.
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
10 Jun 2007 09:41:15 PM |
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"Codebreaker" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181514694.351898.223290@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 10, 5:41 pm, Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:
Peter doesn't say that .. he says that is you suffer as a Christian,
not to
be ashamed, and to be glad to be one.
Ok. But here is the bottom line. The rest was meant
as a detail and was not the main idea.The bottom line is that
Not every believer
in the first century confessed Jesus as the Son of God.
Yeup
Yet all the believers were called Christians.
That someone can be mis-labelled is nothing new
If confessing Jesus as the Son of God
jesus called himself both son of god and son of man
makes
one Christian then there was no Christian in the first
Century Jerusalem and not even in Antioch as
most believers were Jews from Judaism and the
Council of Jerusalem tell us that they had
problems being disloyal to Moses.
Calling Jesus Son Of God is breaking
the Law of Moses that they would not want to do.
Jesus called himself son of god. Whether or not he claimed to BE God, or be
god's only son, is a different question.
Associating anything with God is a sin in Moses Law,
That's why the pharasees were against Jesus.
which Law some group of believers wanted to promote.
Yet this is what nowaday missionaries want us to believe.
They make it look as If everyone in Jerusalem
thought Jesus was the Son Of God.
One cannot say for sure that everyone thought the same things .. they most
likely didn't then and don't now.
Christian means followers of Christ and not neccessary
the one who believes Jesus is the Son Of God.
Are you taking christ here as meaning annointed one (similar to messiah) ?
Muslims then fall in the same category that
of Hebrew Christians who believed that Jesus
was the Christ but referred to him as the GREAT
PROPHET and not as the Son Of God.
And If they were Christians, then the Muslims
also are Christians as the word
Christian has a broad meaning.
Of course, Muslims and 'Christians' have different view about what Jesus
taught.
That was my point son of monkey.
eh?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
13 Jun 2007 06:17:23 PM |
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On Jun 10, 10:41 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181514694.351898.223290@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 10, 5:41 pm, Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:
Peter doesn't say that .. he says that is you suffer as a Christian,
not to
be ashamed, and to be glad to be one.
Ok. But here is the bottom line. The rest was meant
as a detail and was not the main idea.The bottom line is that
Not every believer
in the first century confessed Jesus as the Son of God.
Yeup
Yet all the believers were called Christians.
That someone can be mis-labelled is nothing new
If confessing Jesus as the Son of God
jesus called himself both son of god and son of man
But the text which foretold Christ/Messiah is found
in the Torah of Moses. Here is Moses
to the Children of Israel:
"The Lord your God will send you, the Messiah/
Christ, a Prophet like myself him you shall
listen." Deut 18:15
This is the text which according to the Acts
of the Apostles became the bone of contention
between first Jesus and the pharisees, then
the pharisees and the Apostles.
Now If a Christian is follower of Christ that the
Apostles said is found in the Torah of Moses,
then it follows that the Muslims are
also Christians as attested in this verse:
"Say, O God we follow the Messenger, the prophets
of the Gentiles, that we found described
in the Torah and the Gospel" Qur'an.
Now Can one be Christian without believeing
in Jesus as the Son of God?
Yes because Son of God has nothing to do with being Christian
Moses never foretold a Son for God but Christ, that is to say
the Messiah.
makes
one Christian then there was no Christian in the first
Century Jerusalem and not even in Antioch as
most believers were Jews from Judaism and the
Council of Jerusalem tell us that they had
problems being disloyal to Moses.
Calling Jesus Son Of God is breaking
the Law of Moses that they would not want to do.
Jesus called himself son of god. Whether or not he claimed to BE God, or be
god's only son, is a different question.
Associating anything with God is a sin in Moses Law,
That's why the pharasees were against Jesus.
which Law some group of believers wanted to promote.
Yet this is what nowaday missionaries want us to believe.
They make it look as If everyone in Jerusalem
thought Jesus was the Son Of God.
One cannot say for sure that everyone thought the same things .. they most
likely didn't then and don't now.
Christian means followers of Christ and not neccessary
the one who believes Jesus is the Son Of God.
Are you taking christ here as meaning annointed one (similar to messiah) ?
Muslims then fall in the same category that
of Hebrew Christians who believed that Jesus
was the Christ but referred to him as the GREAT
PROPHET and not as the Son Of God.
And If they were Christians, then the Muslims
also are Christians as the word
Christian has a broad meaning.
Of course, Muslims and 'Christians' have different view about what Jesus
taught.
That was my point son of monkey.
eh?
.
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
13 Jun 2007 10:32:31 PM |
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<Tohu.Bohu@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181776643.629214.162050@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
But the text which foretold Christ/Messiah is found
in the Torah of Moses. Here is Moses
to the Children of Israel:
"The Lord your God will send you, the Messiah/
Christ, a Prophet like myself him you shall
listen." Deut 18:15
This is the text which according to the Acts
of the Apostles became the bone of contention
between first Jesus and the pharisees, then
the pharisees and the Apostles.
Now If a Christian is follower of Christ that the
Apostles said is found in the Torah of Moses,
then it follows that the Muslims are
also Christians as attested in this verse:
"Say, O God we follow the Messenger, the prophets
of the Gentiles, that we found described
in the Torah and the Gospel" Qur'an.
Now Can one be Christian without believeing
in Jesus as the Son of God?
Yes because Son of God has nothing to do with being Christian
Moses never foretold a Son for God but Christ, that is to say
the Messiah.
It really depends on what is meant by "Christian" TODAY.
.
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
14 Jun 2007 11:38:48 AM |
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On Jun 13, 11:32 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
<Tohu.B...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181776643.629214.162050@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
But the text which foretold Christ/Messiah is found
in the Torah of Moses. Here is Moses
to the Children of Israel:
"The Lord your God will send you, the Messiah/
Christ, a Prophet like myself him you shall
listen." Deut 18:15
This is the text which according to the Acts
of the Apostles became the bone of contention
between first Jesus and the pharisees, then
the pharisees and the Apostles.
Now If a Christian is follower of Christ that the
Apostles said is found in the Torah of Moses,
then it follows that the Muslims are
also Christians as attested in this verse:
"Say, O God we follow the Messenger, the prophets
of the Gentiles, that we found described
in the Torah and the Gospel" Qur'an.
Now Can one be Christian without believeing
in Jesus as the Son of God?
Yes because Son of God has nothing to do with being Christian
Moses never foretold a Son for God but Christ, that is to say
the Messiah.
It really depends on what is meant by "Christian" TODAY.- Hide quoted text -
So you guys-Evol atheists- should not brag about how
smart you are. Because this is not how one makes sense
of the past. This is not how SCHOLARSHIP is done.
Biblical Scholarship has been carried out very badly,
This is how Evolution and its shallow history of mankind
stepped in to fill the gap. True biblical SCHOLARSHIP
shall be restored
- Show quoted text -
.
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
|
| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
14 Jun 2007 08:14:21 PM |
|
|
"Codebreaker" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181839128.813617.293100@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 13, 11:32 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
<Tohu.B...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181776643.629214.162050@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
But the text which foretold Christ/Messiah is found
in the Torah of Moses. Here is Moses
to the Children of Israel:
"The Lord your God will send you, the Messiah/
Christ, a Prophet like myself him you shall
listen." Deut 18:15
This is the text which according to the Acts
of the Apostles became the bone of contention
between first Jesus and the pharisees, then
the pharisees and the Apostles.
Now If a Christian is follower of Christ that the
Apostles said is found in the Torah of Moses,
then it follows that the Muslims are
also Christians as attested in this verse:
"Say, O God we follow the Messenger, the prophets
of the Gentiles, that we found described
in the Torah and the Gospel" Qur'an.
Now Can one be Christian without believeing
in Jesus as the Son of God?
Yes because Son of God has nothing to do with being Christian
Moses never foretold a Son for God but Christ, that is to say
the Messiah.
It really depends on what is meant by "Christian" TODAY.- Hide quoted
text -
So you guys-Evol atheists- should not brag about how
smart you are. Because this is not how one makes sense
of the past. This is not how SCHOLARSHIP is done.
Biblical Scholarship has been carried out very badly,
This is how Evolution and its shallow history of mankind
stepped in to fill the gap. True biblical SCHOLARSHIP
shall be restored
Blow it out your arse .. as its all crap anyway
.
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
|
| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
17 Jun 2007 01:50:13 PM |
|
|
On Jun 14, 9:14 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Codebreaker" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1181839128.813617.293100@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 13, 11:32 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
<Tohu.B...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181776643.629214.162050@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
But the text which foretold Christ/Messiah is found
in the Torah of Moses. Here is Moses
to the Children of Israel:
"The Lord your God will send you, the Messiah/
Christ, a Prophet like myself him you shall
listen." Deut 18:15
This is the text which according to the Acts
of the Apostles became the bone of contention
between first Jesus and the pharisees, then
the pharisees and the Apostles.
Now If a Christian is follower of Christ that the
Apostles said is found in the Torah of Moses,
then it follows that the Muslims are
also Christians as attested in this verse:
"Say, O God we follow the Messenger, the prophets
of the Gentiles, that we found described
in the Torah and the Gospel" Qur'an.
Now Can one be Christian without believeing
in Jesus as the Son of God?
Yes because Son of God has nothing to do with being Christian
Moses never foretold a Son for God but Christ, that is to say
the Messiah.
It really depends on what is meant by "Christian" TODAY.- Hide quoted
text -
So you guys-Evol atheists- should not brag about how
smart you are. Because this is not how one makes sense
of the past. This is not how SCHOLARSHIP is done.
Biblical Scholarship has been carried out very badly,
This is how Evolution and its shallow history of mankind
stepped in to fill the gap. True biblical SCHOLARSHIP
shall be restored
Blow it out your arse .. as its all crap anyway- Hide quoted text -
***** YOU ALL
- Show quoted text -
.
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
|
| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
17 Jun 2007 05:56:26 PM |
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"Codebreaker" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:1182106213.495372.122260@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
***** YOU ALL
Kinky.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
14 Jun 2007 09:46:42 PM |
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On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:38:48 -0700, Codebreaker
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote:
This is not how SCHOLARSHIP is done.
Biblical Scholarship has been carried out very badly,
<snip>
True biblical SCHOLARSHIP shall be restored
But not by morons like you.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
13 Jun 2007 11:09:29 PM |
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On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:17:23 -0700, wrote:
But the text which foretold Christ/Messiah is found
in the Torah of Moses. Here is Moses
to the Children of Israel:
"The Lord your God will send you, the Messiah/
Christ
Whose name shall be called Immanuel. Christ's name was called Yeshua,
so he's not the Messiah. Christianity got it wrong.
If you want to claim that the OT was accurate, you have to accept the
WHOLE prophesy.
.
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
14 Jun 2007 02:38:11 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:9of1731hs7fgbov61g1cv9d3i2is3geo8f@4ax.com...
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:17:23 -0700, wrote:
But the text which foretold Christ/Messiah is found
in the Torah of Moses. Here is Moses
to the Children of Israel:
"The Lord your God will send you, the Messiah/
Christ
Whose name shall be called Immanuel. Christ's name was called Yeshua,
so he's not the Messiah. Christianity got it wrong.
If you want to claim that the OT was accurate, you have to accept the
WHOLE prophesy.
Hey .. it's the bible .. didn't you know you can pick and choose whatever
bits agree with what you want to say :):):)
.
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
|
| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
14 Jun 2007 02:09:45 PM |
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On Jun 14, 3:38 am, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:9of1731hs7fgbov61g1cv9d3i2is3geo8f@4ax.com...
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:17:23 -0700, wrote:
But the text which foretold Christ/Messiah is found
in the Torah of Moses. Here is Moses
to the Children of Israel:
"The Lord your God will send you, the Messiah/
Christ
Whose name shall be called Immanuel. Christ's name was called Yeshua,
so he's not the Messiah. Christianity got it wrong.
If you want to claim that the OT was accurate, you have to accept the
WHOLE prophesy.
Hey .. it's the bible .. didn't you know you can pick and choose whatever
bits agree with what you want to say :):):)
It is a bible yet we approach it as the TORAH + The Prophets or
Moses + the
Prophets or
the Law + the
Prophets
You can't skip Moses and jump in the Prophets without twisting
the whole thing.
Again the Prophecy about Christ, or the Messiah started with Moses
It is right there in Deut 18:15. Son of God is not in the Law of Moses
and
may certainly be a marketing ploy. this is why the Ebionites
which was one the main Hebrew Christian groups opposed to Paul
rejected it and any theology associated to it
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
14 Jun 2007 08:20:31 PM |
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On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:09:45 -0700, Codebreaker
<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote:
Again the Prophecy about Christ, or the Messiah started with Moses
It is right there in Deut 18:15.
Not one word in Dueteronomy about Jesus.
Son of God is not in the Law of Moses
It's not in the OT at all, since the concept was invented late in the
second century.
.
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
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| Title: Re: Trinitarians Defined Christianity In Line With Their Shallow Creed |
17 Jun 2007 05:40:43 PM |
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On Jun 14, 9:20 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:09:45 -0700, Codebreaker
<Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:
Again the Prophecy about Christ, or the Messiah started with Moses
It is right there in Deut 18:15.
Not one word in Dueteronomy about Jesus.
Not one word in the Constitution about BUSH?
So what???
Son of God is not in the Law of Moses
It's not in the OT at all, since the concept was invented late in the
second century.
Paul lived way before the second century.
If you had read his epistle to the Romans
and to the Hebrews, you would have
a better understanding of the concept
Son of God.
Here is a guy who has difficulties understanding
the Bible, yet jumps on every topic ever posted
on the Bible without trying to give it a serious
thought first. I AM SORRY FOR YOUR DAD
.
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