| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Winter JNAHC" |
| Date: |
02 Jun 2005 07:26:59 PM |
| Object: |
Trinity study |
Whether Satan's servants call their polytheistic philosophies
"trinitarianism", "triunity", or whatever smokescreen or
deception, whether they philosophize about pies being sliced or
apples being diced...
The bottom line is that they REJECT Jesus name baptism for the
remission of sins as preached and practiced by the Apostles and
ALL real Christians since then.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized,
and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Jesus name baptism remits sins!
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God
shall call.
Those that really receive the Word of God are baptized in Jesus
name.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were
baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three
thousand souls.
We have all of these proofs that the Apostles baptised using the
Name of Jesus. It astounds me how these trinity preachers can
deceive souls into believing that their filthy false preacher
knows more than the Apostles!
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things
concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they
were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they
were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be
baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of
the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye
baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism
of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Paul told them to believe on Jesus and what did they immediately
understand that meant?
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name
of the Lord Jesus.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into
Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Paul taught baptism in Jesus Name, but he found that he should
let the local preachers do the baptizing. They were not
baptised in the name of Paul, but rather, in the Name of Jesus.
But we can gain insight from this that a singular NAME was used
in baptism.
1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for
you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but
Crispus and Gaius;
1 Corinthians 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in
mine own name.
1 Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household of
Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
The Bible is so clear in it's warning against trinitarianism.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and
vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of
the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead
bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all
principality and power:
Trinitarian filth like to publish page after page of their
garbage polytheistic philosophies.
Guess what? Satanic preachers do not want you to put on Christ
by being baptized in Jesus NAME!
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
Why do the Satanic false-christian preachers want you to reject
the name of Jesus in baptism?
2 Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers,
transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed
into an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers
also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end
shall be according to their works.
2 Tim 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse,
deceiving, and being deceived.
Pastor sTeve Winter
http://www.onegodsermons.com CDs of services now available
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
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| User: "Spirit of Truth" |
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| Title: Trinity study |
07 Jun 2005 10:19:01 PM |
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But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the
Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.
John 15:26
"Heretic Winter JNAHC" <steve@prime.org> wrote in message
news:up8v91loi6v2b64ari12oect612p7ea8bd@4ax.com...
Whether Satan's servants call their polytheistic philosophies
"trinitarianism", "triunity", or whatever smokescreen or
deception, whether they philosophize about pies being sliced or
apples being diced...
http://www.truthandgrace.com/Trinity.htm
.
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
08 Jun 2005 12:26:02 PM |
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"Spirit of Truth" <truth@earthlink.net> spake thusly and wrote:
But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the
Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.
John 15:26
The false-christian scum Lance Ferm again thinks he has found
another out of context Bible verse to support him in his filthy
polytheism! Of course he just confirms his polytheism.
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot
receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye
know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
The filthy, malicious, three-god, false-christian scum Lance Ferm
is hoping you missed the verses back in John 14 where Jesus
identifies HIMSELF as the Spirit of truth!
The best defense against scum like Lance Ferm or Stephen Adams or
any other three-god, false-christian dirt is still education and
information so lets have another review study.
Trinitarianism is, however, not merely stupid and foolish, it is
a spiritually fatal error.
I will explain in this brief post why every trinitarian will
die in their sins and spend eternity in a devils' hell. I do
this not to condemn souls, because the trinitarian is
condemned already, but to warn of the fires of hell.
Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the
fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of
season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and
doctrine.
Remission of sins is essential for sinful humanity to be
"sin free". The word "salvation" means free from sin.
In Acts 2:38 we see that sins are remitted (washed away) by
Jesus name baptism. Now the trinitarian is not really
worshipping the Jesus of the Bible, so they see no need to be
baptised in Jesus name (even though the Bible clearly commands
it). They think that their three gods need three separate
"titles" in baptism.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God
shall call.
This is because Jesus is the Great "I AM" of the Bible.
His name is the ONLY saving name.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is
none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be
saved.
So, you see, trinity preachers really are deceiving people into
hell. I don't just say that to be mean, but rather in the
service of truth.
Both of the following statements were spoken by the same person:
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said,
Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent
me unto you.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily , verily, I say unto
you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Now the false christian will not accept that Jesus is "I AM".
They "don't believe". They are "non-believers".
That is why Jesus said that those who would not accept that He
really was the "I AM" would die in their sins.
1. Those who do not see Jesus as "I AM" see no need to be
baptised in the name of Jesus.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your
sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your
sins.
2. Sins are remitted by Jesus name baptism.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized,
and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
3. Those who don't believe in Jesus will refuse Jesus name
baptism and will die with their sins UN-REMITTED.
1 Timothy 5:24 Some men’s sins are open beforehand, going before
to judgment; and some men they follow after.
That is why Jesus said:
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your
sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your
sins.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God.
Sins are washed away by Jesus name baptism. That is why the
Bible commands it, so you can "put on Christ".
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
Trinitarians are deceived by their filthy preachers into refusing
to "put on Christ".
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call
his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism
of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name
of the Lord Jesus.
What did the people do immediately when Paul told them
to believe on Jesus?
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized,
and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee,
of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other
man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same
scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain
water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder
me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou
mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is
the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went
down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he
baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of
the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and
he went on his way rejoicing.
Notice how the eunuch understood that believing on Jesus included
being baptised. You now have several examples from the Word of
God where hearers of the Word of God knew that belief in Jesus
included baptism.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand
souls.
Even on the day of Pentecost, on the birthday of the New
Testament Church, there were 3000 baptised in Jesus Name. Those
that receive the Word of God get baptised.
Look back just two verses and see that Peter preached Jesus Name
baptism.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and
to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall
call.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
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| User: "Bible John" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
07 Jun 2005 12:12:54 AM |
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I believe that Winter missed my study on the OneNess cult
John
--
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
07 Jun 2005 11:09:04 AM |
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Bible John <john.doggett@x-files.gov> spake thusly and wrote:
I believe that Winter missed my study on the OneNess cult
John
Do you false-christian scum not realize that when you attack
monotheism that you merely confirm your own polytheism?
I am amazed at the audacity of some of the false christians that
we encounter from time to time. Not only will they teach
disobedience to the Bible, but, they will question the salvation
of the people that really believe in only ONE God (Jesus), and DO
obey Acts 2:38.
We should not forget that the Bible warned us against such like
and teaches that true Christians should NOT coddle such
deceivers.
II Corinthians 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may
cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein
they glory, they may be found even as we.
II Corinthians 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful
workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
II Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is
transformed into an angel of light.
II Corinthians 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his
ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness;
whose end shall be according to their works.
Now common sense should make us aware that Satan is going to have
his servants pretending to be "christian teachers", the
difference will be that their teaching will be to undermine the
importance of knowing who Jesus is, AND to undermine the
importance of obeying His Word.
It's the same old story. God says do something, and the devil
teaches that it doesn't really matter.
God says be baptised in Jesus name; the devil's ministers teach
that it doesn't really matter.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and
to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God
shall call.
God says that Jesus name baptism remits the sins of as many as
God will call. The religious filth will come along and say "Oh,
our glorious and wonderful god doesn't really mean that" and then
they will manufacture some emotionally titillating fable of
whatabout this or that...
II Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling [words] of
vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through
much] wantonness,
those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
II Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves
are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of
the same is he brought in bondage.
It is a real preachers' job to convince you to obey the Bible,
it's the false preachers job to teach you that you really don't
need to obey the Bible.
Forget the devil's fairy tales, salvation is only for the
obedient.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of
eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and
wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
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| User: "Bible John" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
08 Jun 2005 01:13:10 PM |
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In article <5ihba11t3hh7idg22a6e6oga9dm365pgcr@4ax.com>,
Pastor Steve Winter <steve.NO--SPAM@prime.org> wrote:
Do you false-christian scum not realize that when you attack
monotheism that you merely confirm your own polytheism?
Woe unto you Winter, for your own words are a deadly poison that go and
seek anyone to devour, so that you may look good in front of others. I
say to you again Woe!
John
--
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
Heb. 4:12-For the word of God is living and
active. Sharper than any double-edged sword,
it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints
and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes
of the heart.
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| User: "reece" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
11 Jun 2005 05:38:47 AM |
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Bible John wrote:
I believe that Winter missed my study on the OneNess cult
John
Just for starters:
The Catholic Encyclopedia also comments: “In Scripture there is as yet
no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together.
The word ????? [tri´as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation)
is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180. . . . Shortly
afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian.”
The Encyclopedia of Religion admits: “Theologians today are in agreement
that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity.” And
the New Catholic Encyclopedia also says: “The doctrine of the Holy
Trinity is not taught in the O[ld] T[estament].”
Similarly, in his book The Triune God, Jesuit Edmund Fortman admits:
“The Old Testament . . . tells us nothing explicitly or by necessary
implication of a Triune God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. . . .
There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence
of a [Trinity] within the Godhead. . . . Even to see in [the “Old
Testament”] suggestions or foreshadowings or ‘veiled signs’ of the
trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred
writers.”—Italics ours.
An examination of the Hebrew Scriptures themselves will bear out these
comments. Thus, there is no clear teaching of a Trinity in the first 39
books of the Bible that make up the true canon of the inspired Hebrew
Scriptures.
The Encyclopedia of Religion says: “Theologians agree that the New
Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity.”
Jesuit Fortman states: “The New Testament writers . . . give us no
formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, no explicit teaching that
in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. . . . Nowhere do we
find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life
and activity in the same Godhead.”
The New Encyclopædia Britannica observes: “Neither the word Trinity nor
the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament.”
Bernhard Lohse says in A Short History of Christian Doctrine: “As far as
the New Testament is concerned, one does not find in it an actual
doctrine of the Trinity.”
The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology similarly
states: “The N[ew] T[estament] does not contain the developed doctrine
of the Trinity. ‘The Bible lacks the express declaration that the
Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence’ [said
Protestant theologian Karl Barth].”
Yale University professor E. Washburn Hopkins affirmed: “To Jesus and
Paul the doctrine of the trinity was apparently unknown; . . . they say
nothing about it.”—Origin and Evolution of Religion.
Historian Arthur Weigall notes: “Jesus Christ never mentioned such a
phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’
appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years
after the death of our Lord.”—The Paganism in Our Christianity.
Thus, neither the 39 books of the Hebrew Scriptures nor the canon of 27
inspired books of the Christian Greek Scriptures provide any clear
teaching of the Trinity.
.
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| User: "Qolon" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
11 Jun 2005 06:29:48 AM |
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Well said mate.
The problem with the doctrine of the Trinity, isn't that their is mentioned
Father, Son and Holy Ghost in that isn't actually about being the same {ie.
homoios} spirit or substance or reasoned will {ie. homo noumenon} but
putting words to Pythagorean (c. 580-500 BCE) symbolic philosophy/theology
{ie. 1+2+3=6} as a heteros conception of number and nature, which subscribes
to number a gender and spermatic quality.
The concept isn't unique because the notions are manifested in the Tao as
the Ying and Yang and planetary mother image of the Chinese Philosophy of
the contemporaneous Lao Tzu (6th century BCE) and which still pervaded until
the time of Wang Bi (c. 226-249 CE) who expressed it as a philosophy for
political heads of state--little wonder then that the issue was raised at
the Nicean council in circa 325 CE.
Nevertheless, the image of the ethereal city of God as the kingdom is
'homoios' in that 'the length and the breadth and the height of it are
equal':
i) Of the same kind; like or resembling;
(1) those who have the same position and rights;
ii) Of like disposition; the same;
(1) men of the same mind or party; of the same rank or station
(2) expression of closeness of agreement
(3) one and the same
(4) the same as usual
(5) all one to us
(6) homois antapodidonai give ‘tit for tat’
(7) on equal terms, in fair fight
iii) In relation to possessions, ‘belonging equally in common’
(1) accruing equally to all, general
(2) approaching all equally
iv) In geometry, ‘similar’ of figures
(1) of triangles in the sense of equal
(2) of numbers being the square of a number as the product of two equal
factors eg: 9² = 81
v) Emphasizing the agreement by which one thing is similar or equal to
another
"And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and
showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from
God, having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most
precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a wall great
and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names
written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of
Israel: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south
three gates; and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had
twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the
Lamb.
And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the
gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the
length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed,
twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it
are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four
cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel."
[Revelation 21:10-17]
Thus you may view the notion of the doctrine of Trinity (ie. unity and
multiplicity) as being little more than a fantasy worldview.
- dolf
- http://home.iprimus.com.au/telos/kabbalah/noumenon.html
"reece" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:42aabf36@news.comindico.com.au...
Bible John wrote:
I believe that Winter missed my study on the OneNess cult
John
Just for starters:
The Catholic Encyclopedia also comments: “In Scripture there is as yet
no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together.
The word ????? [tri´as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation)
is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180. . . . Shortly
afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian.”
The Encyclopedia of Religion admits: “Theologians today are in agreement
that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity.” And
the New Catholic Encyclopedia also says: “The doctrine of the Holy
Trinity is not taught in the O[ld] T[estament].”
Similarly, in his book The Triune God, Jesuit Edmund Fortman admits:
“The Old Testament . . . tells us nothing explicitly or by necessary
implication of a Triune God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. . . .
There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence
of a [Trinity] within the Godhead. . . . Even to see in [the “Old
Testament”] suggestions or foreshadowings or ‘veiled signs’ of the
trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred
writers.”—Italics ours.
An examination of the Hebrew Scriptures themselves will bear out these
comments. Thus, there is no clear teaching of a Trinity in the first 39
books of the Bible that make up the true canon of the inspired Hebrew
Scriptures.
The Encyclopedia of Religion says: “Theologians agree that the New
Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity.”
Jesuit Fortman states: “The New Testament writers . . . give us no
formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, no explicit teaching that
in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. . . . Nowhere do we
find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life
and activity in the same Godhead.”
The New Encyclopædia Britannica observes: “Neither the word Trinity nor
the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament.”
Bernhard Lohse says in A Short History of Christian Doctrine: “As far as
the New Testament is concerned, one does not find in it an actual
doctrine of the Trinity.”
The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology similarly
states: “The N[ew] T[estament] does not contain the developed doctrine
of the Trinity. ‘The Bible lacks the express declaration that the
Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence’ [said
Protestant theologian Karl Barth].”
Yale University professor E. Washburn Hopkins affirmed: “To Jesus and
Paul the doctrine of the trinity was apparently unknown; . . . they say
nothing about it.”—Origin and Evolution of Religion.
Historian Arthur Weigall notes: “Jesus Christ never mentioned such a
phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’
appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years
after the death of our Lord.”—The Paganism in Our Christianity.
Thus, neither the 39 books of the Hebrew Scriptures nor the canon of 27
inspired books of the Christian Greek Scriptures provide any clear
teaching of the Trinity.
.
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| User: "Qolon" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
11 Jun 2005 06:34:28 AM |
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Well said mate.
The problem with the doctrine of the Trinity, isn't that there is mentioned
Father, Son and Holy Ghost in that it isn't actually about being the same
{ie. homoios} spirit or substance or reasoned will {ie. homo noumenon} but
putting words to Pythagorean (c. 580-500 BCE) symbolic philosophy/theology
{ie. 1+2+3=6} as a heteros conception of number and nature, which subscribes
to number a gender and spermatic quality.
The concept isn't unique because the notions are manifested in the Tao as
the Ying and Yang and planetary mother image of the Chinese Philosophy of
the contemporaneous Lao Tzu (6th century BCE) and which still pervaded until
the time of Wang Bi (c. 226-249 CE) who expressed it as a philosophy for
political heads of state--little wonder then that the issue was raised at
the Nicean council in circa 325 CE.
Nevertheless, the image of the ethereal city of God as the kingdom is
'homoios' in that 'the length and the breadth and the height of it are
equal':
i) Of the same kind; like or resembling;
(1) those who have the same position and rights;
ii) Of like disposition; the same;
(1) men of the same mind or party; of the same rank or station
(2) expression of closeness of agreement
(3) one and the same
(4) the same as usual
(5) all one to us
(6) homois antapodidonai give 'tit for tat'
(7) on equal terms, in fair fight
iii) In relation to possessions, 'belonging equally in common'
(1) accruing equally to all, general
(2) approaching all equally
iv) In geometry, 'similar' of figures
(1) of triangles in the sense of equal
(2) of numbers being the square of a number as the product of two equal
factors eg: 9² = 81
v) Emphasizing the agreement by which one thing is similar or equal to
another
"And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and
showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from
God, having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most
precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a wall great
and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names
written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of
Israel: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south
three gates; and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had
twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the
Lamb.
And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the
gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the
length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed,
twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it
are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four
cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel."
[Revelation 21:10-17]
Thus you may view the notion of the doctrine of Trinity (ie. unity and
multiplicity) as being little more than a fantasy worldview.
- dolf
- http://home.iprimus.com.au/telos/kabbalah/noumenon.html
"reece" <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:42aabf36@news.comindico.com.au...
Bible John wrote:
I believe that Winter missed my study on the OneNess cult
John
Just for starters:
The Catholic Encyclopedia also comments: "In Scripture there is as yet
no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together.
The word ????? [tri´as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation)
is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180. . . . Shortly
afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian."
The Encyclopedia of Religion admits: "Theologians today are in agreement
that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity." And
the New Catholic Encyclopedia also says: "The doctrine of the Holy
Trinity is not taught in the O[ld] T[estament]."
Similarly, in his book The Triune God, Jesuit Edmund Fortman admits:
"The Old Testament . . . tells us nothing explicitly or by necessary
implication of a Triune God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. . . .
There is no evidence that any sacred writer even suspected the existence
of a [Trinity] within the Godhead. . . . Even to see in [the "Old
Testament"] suggestions or foreshadowings or 'veiled signs' of the
trinity of persons, is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred
writers."-Italics ours.
An examination of the Hebrew Scriptures themselves will bear out these
comments. Thus, there is no clear teaching of a Trinity in the first 39
books of the Bible that make up the true canon of the inspired Hebrew
Scriptures.
The Encyclopedia of Religion says: "Theologians agree that the New
Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity."
Jesuit Fortman states: "The New Testament writers . . . give us no
formal or formulated doctrine of the Trinity, no explicit teaching that
in one God there are three co-equal divine persons. . . . Nowhere do we
find any trinitarian doctrine of three distinct subjects of divine life
and activity in the same Godhead."
The New Encyclopædia Britannica observes: "Neither the word Trinity nor
the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament."
Bernhard Lohse says in A Short History of Christian Doctrine: "As far as
the New Testament is concerned, one does not find in it an actual
doctrine of the Trinity."
The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology similarly
states: "The N[ew] T[estament] does not contain the developed doctrine
of the Trinity. 'The Bible lacks the express declaration that the
Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence' [said
Protestant theologian Karl Barth]."
Yale University professor E. Washburn Hopkins affirmed: "To Jesus and
Paul the doctrine of the trinity was apparently unknown; . . . they say
nothing about it."-Origin and Evolution of Religion.
Historian Arthur Weigall notes: "Jesus Christ never mentioned such a
phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word 'Trinity'
appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years
after the death of our Lord."-The Paganism in Our Christianity.
Thus, neither the 39 books of the Hebrew Scriptures nor the canon of 27
inspired books of the Christian Greek Scriptures provide any clear
teaching of the Trinity.
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| User: "Lawrence Wong From:" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
03 Jun 2005 06:05:03 PM |
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The following article I got from anti-JW stuff I have around the house.
Any spelling mistakes are probably mine.
The Trinity
Within the nature of the only true God there simultaneously exist three
eternal persons, namely, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy
Spirit. The Three are co-equal in all the nature and attributes of God.
Father
/ | \
/ | \
/ is \
is | is
not God not
| / \ |
| is is |
| / \ |
|/ \|
Son--is not--Holy
Spirit
The chart diagrams this doctrine of the Trinity: The Father is God, The
Son is God, The Holy Spirit is God. The Fsther is not The Son nor The
Spirit, The Son is not the Father nor The Spirit, The Holy Spirit is not
The Father nor The Son. All three, collectively and individually, are the
One God.
The outline below demonstrates how this can be derived from Scripture. It
is by no means exhaustive, but merely serves as a basic outline.
Christian Doctrine of the Trinity
I. One God in Three Persons.
A. One God (Jehovah/Yahweh).
1. Isaiah 44:6-8, 45:5, 46:9.
2. 1 Timothy 2:5.
3. James 2:19.
B. The Person of the Father.
1. Matthew 6:9 (our Father).
2. Luke 11:2 (our Father).
3. Mark 8:38 (glory to the Father).
4. John 10:15 (Father knows Jesus).
C. Is the Father called God?
1. Romans 1:7.
2. 1 Corinthians 1:3.
3. 2 Corinthians 1:2.
John 8:41.
D. The Person of the Son (Jesus)
1. Matthew 3:17.
2. Acts 13:33.
3. 2 John 9.
4. Matthew 16:13, 16, 27, 28.
5. Colossians 2:9.
E. Is the Son (Jesus) called God?
1. John 1:1 (the Word is God).
John 1:14 (the Word made flesh).
2. Isaiah 43:11-13 (no Saviour but God).
1 John 4:14 (Jesus is Saviour).
3. Revelation 1:8 (Alpha & Omega is God).
Revelation 21:6 (Alpha & Omega is beginning and end).
Revelation 22:13 (Alpha & Omega is first and last is beginning
and end).
Revelation 22:16 ("I, Jesus...").
Revelation 1:17-18 (first and last became dead - when did God
die?).
Isaiah 44:6 (God is the first and the last).
4. Mark 2:7-10 (Jesus has authority to forgive sins).
F. The Person of the Holy Spirit.
1. Ephesians 4:30 (He is grieved).
2. Hebrews 10:29 (He is insulted).
3. Romans 8:26-27 (He intercedes).
4. John 14:16-17, 26 (He, not it).
5. John 15:26 (He is a Person).
G. Is the Spirit called God?
1. Acts 5:1-4 (lied to God the Holy Spirit).
2. 2 Samuel 23:2-3 (the Spirit spoke, God said).
3. Psalms 139:7-13.
4. Hebrews 9:14 (He is eternal).
II. Attributes and actions of Jehovah God.
A. Omnipresent - everywhere present.
1. Father (Jeremiah 23:24; 1 Kings 8:27).
2. Son (Matthew 18:20; Revelation 3:20; Matthew 28:20).
3. Holy Spirit (Psalms 139:7-13).
B. Omniscient - having all knowledge.
1. Father (Psalm 139:1-6).
2. Son (John 16:30).
3. Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:10-11).
C. Omnipotent - all powerful.
1. Father (Matthew 19:26).
2. Son (Matthew 28:18).
3. Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35).
D. The Trinity in the Resurrection.
1. The Father raised Jesus (Galations 1:1).
2. Jesus raised Himself (John 2:18-22).
3. The Holy Spirit raised Jesus (Romans 8:11).
4. God raised Jesus (Romans 10:9).
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
04 Jun 2005 02:03:27 AM |
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On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 23:05:03 +0000, wrote:
The following article I got from anti-JW stuff I have around the house.
Any spelling mistakes are probably mine.
The Trinity
Within the nature of the only true God there simultaneously exist three
eternal persons, namely, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy
Spirit. The Three are co-equal in all the nature and attributes of God.
Father
/ | \
/ | \
/ is \
is | is
not God not
| / \ |
| is is |
| / \ |
|/ \|
Son--is not--Holy
Spirit
The chart diagrams this doctrine of the Trinity: The Father is God, The
Son is God, The Holy Spirit is God. The Father is not The Son nor The
Spirit, The Son is not the Father nor The Spirit, The Holy Spirit is not
The Father nor The Son. All three, collectively and individually, are the
One God.
The outline below demonstrates how this can be derived from Scripture. It
is by no means exhaustive, but merely serves as a basic outline.
Hi Lawrence:
I hate to say this, but don't waste your breath or time.
Steve Winter is not willing (and possibly not able) to understand the
doctrine of the trinity. He is steadfast in his belief, despite repeated
explanations to the contrary with biblical support, that the trinity is
polytheism. Instead, Steve relies on his own limited understanding and
attempts to put God into a little box then wraps it with a bow that reads,
"Salvation is only for those baptized by Man" and takes away the glory
from God.
Of course, he will pounce on this and call me a "false christian scum",
but I am glad to suffer for Jesus' sake (not that there's much suffering
here....)
God bless you.
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
04 Jun 2005 01:51:50 PM |
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alt <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter is not willing (and possibly not able) to understand the
doctrine of the trinity.
Amazing what liars these three-god false-christian scum are!
Is this that lying polytheistic slime Donovan Hill?
It is the trinity scum who cannot begin to really defend the
stupid garbage they believe.
Actually I have noticed that the trinitarian will say they
believe different things that happen to suit their whim and
fancy. Since their doctrine is man made, that is easy for them
to do. Then other false christians will join in agreement a la
"The Emperor's New Clothes" style.
I can actually reveal to you the secrets of the mystery of the
trinity.
Some of the more honest of the trinitarians admit that their
religion is really a mystery religion that they have no hope of
understanding.
Well let me shed some light about the mystery trinity religion
and why they labor so hard to undermine the importance of Jesus
name baptism.
Most of the false christian churches are harlot daughters of the
RCC. That is another reason that no one can be saved in a trinity
church.
Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had
the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither;
I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ***** that
sitteth upon many waters:
The RCC "sitteth on many waters", she is international.
Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed
fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made
drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Catholic "indulgences" and false religion have made many "drunk"
with her false religion.
Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the
wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,
full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
The "beast" is the economic community that the "*****" (the RCC)
rides on. The nations support the Vatican.
Revelation 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet
colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,
having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and
filthiness of her fornication:
The pomp and jewelry and scarlet robes of the RCC.
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
The RCC is the mother of all of the trinity denomintations. Just
as the earthly harlot sees no need to take the name of a husband,
these spiritual whores reject Jesus name baptism.
Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the
saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I
saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
No organization has murdered (as "heretics") so many real
Apostolic Christians as the Roman Catholic Church! History knows
no other possible organization than the RCC to fit verse Rev
17:6.
The trinitarians are worshipping a mystery religion all right,
but much more than they realize, they are the harlot daughters of
Mystery Babylon herself.
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Trinity denominations are harlot daughters of Mystery Babylon.
Some are honest enough to declare that they worship a mystery
"three persons" that are three yet one, but are really three, or
maybe one or maybe three....ah but it's a "mystery"....
Don't join the mystery harlots in hell. Repent and come out from
among them. Don't let your pride hold you in the filthy sewer of
some *mystery* three god denominal cult.
2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?
for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will
dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and
they shall be my people.
2 Cor 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye
separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I
will receive you,
2 Cor 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons
and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Come out of the sewer of *mystery* Babylon and her trinity sluts.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
04 Jun 2005 05:45:49 PM |
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On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:51:50 -0400, Steve Winter wrote:
alt <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter is not willing (and possibly not able) to understand the
doctrine of the trinity.
Amazing what liars these three-god false-christian scum are!
See... just like I said!
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| User: "knight" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
04 Jun 2005 09:28:42 PM |
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Where does Steve go to church?
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.04.22.45.48.112560@lazyeyez.net...
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:51:50 -0400, Steve Winter wrote:
alt <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter is not willing (and possibly not able) to understand the
doctrine of the trinity.
Amazing what liars these three-god false-christian scum are!
See... just like I said!
.
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| User: "reece" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
11 Jun 2005 05:44:20 AM |
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knight wrote:
Where does Steve go to church?
"alt" <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.06.04.22.45.48.112560@lazyeyez.net...
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:51:50 -0400, Steve Winter wrote:
alt <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter is not willing (and possibly not able) to understand the
doctrine of the trinity.
The Encyclopedia Americana notes that the doctrine of the Trinity is
considered to be “beyond the grasp of human reason.”
Many who accept the Trinity view it that same way. Monsignor Eugene
Clark says: “God is one, and God is three. Since there is nothing like
this in creation, we cannot understand it, but only accept it.” Cardinal
John O’Connor states: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which
we don’t begin to understand.” And Pope John Paul II speaks of “the
inscrutable mystery of God the Trinity.”
Thus, A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge says: “Precisely what that
doctrine is, or rather precisely how it is to be explained, Trinitarians
are not agreed among themselves.”
We can understand, then, why the New Catholic Encyclopedia observes:
“There are few teachers of Trinitarian theology in Roman Catholic
seminaries who have not been badgered at one time or another by the
question, ‘But how does one preach the Trinity?’ And if the question is
symptomatic of confusion on the part of the students, perhaps it is no
less symptomatic of similar confusion on the part of their professors.”
Amazing what liars these three-god false-christian scum are!
See... just like I said!
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
14 Jun 2005 12:52:30 AM |
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On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:44:20 +0000, reece wrote:
We can understand, then, why the New Catholic Encyclopedia observes:
“There are few teachers of Trinitarian theology in Roman Catholic
seminaries who have not been badgered at one time or another by the
question, ‘But how does one preach the Trinity?’ And if the question
is symptomatic of confusion on the part of the students, perhaps it is no
less symptomatic of similar confusion on the part of their professors.â€
Yep. God is an amazing creator. Infinite in so many things, including
his being.
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| User: "George Peatty" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
11 Jun 2005 11:55:43 AM |
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On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:44:20 GMT, reece <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
[snip]
Since there is nothing like this in creation, we cannot understand it, but only accept it.
Whatever else might be said of the trinity, it is not unique. Of course, it
is unique in the sense that the trinity applies only to God, but there are
two other examples of the one in three, and three in one, both from creation
...
Man is three in one: body, soul and spirit, and while the unregenerate here
might challenge the existence of the latter two, for anyone who finds
meaning in the scriptures, there is a strong analog in the makeup of any
person to the trinity.
Further, the universe itself is an indivisible three: space, mass (which
includes matter and energy) and time. It is impossible to meaningfully
discuss any one of these without at some point referencing the other two.
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| User: "Qolon" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
11 Jun 2005 05:24:34 PM |
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Although the philosopher Hegel (1770-1831 CE) is of the opinion that
Johannes Kepler's 3 laws on elliptial orbits, may be viewed dialectially
{ie. 1. Focus (thesis), 2. Equity (anti-thesis), 3. Ratio (synthesis) and
therefore time as a 4th dimensional element is a progression}. I use Hegel
as the example here because he provides a unique appraisal and summation of
the entire history of philosophy/theology to his time.
The comment was, that 'there is nothing like it in creation' occurs because
it is as symbolic philosophy/theology and the anti-thesis of
creation--another formation as creation {ie. Ktistis [Romans 1:20-23] as the
contemporaneous literature 'Sefer Yezirah' suggests: "And He created His
universe with three books (sepharim), with text (Sepher) with number
(Sephar) and with communication (Sippur)." [cf: 1:1]} which the Apostle Paul
viewed that it resulted in blasphemy [Romans 2:2:24].
As the Apostle Paul was from "the most straitest sect of Judaism as
Pharisee" [Acts 26:5], (a Hebrew of Hebrews) he would have been aware of the
esoteric or secret consideration made of upon Divine Providence or the
Archangel Metatron [Luke 7:24-28] as the angel of liberation and the
covenant, which as the soul of the Messiah is the demiurge or supernatural
animating agent within the universe as the Shekinah [#11, #2, #37, #47 -
Ignorant Guides/ Viewing the Distant/ #1, #81], that were posed as questions
related to past theological development within the Jewish religion and the
personality of Jesus of Nazareth.
Within Jewish mysticism, the Archangel Metatron is considered the soul of
the Messiah, an angel of liberation and the covenant. As the greatest of all
the heavenly hierarchs to whom Gabriel is sub-ordinate, he is equated with
the demiurge or supernatural animating agent within the universe as the
Shekinah [#11, #2, #37, #47 - Ignorant Guides/ Viewing the Distant/ #1,
#81]. And who was especially important because his name is the mathematical
equivalent of Shaddai {Heb. Shin (#300) Daleth (#4) Yod (#10) = #314 % 81 =
#71} the Almighty [Genesis 17:1], as one of God's names: "Of the palace of
Metatron, the name comes from the Nepheshoth {ie. the life force, soul or
anima, psyche as distinguished from the nous or logos}, the most righteous
of the universe. Of the profound secret, Metatron is all the actions and
power of Shaddai, of all the one power." [© 2000 Steve Savedow, The Sepher
Rezial: The Book of the Angel Raziel p 196] This Angel is regarded as
companion to the Angel Sandolfon {co-brother} who, being 'taller than his
comrades by a distance of 500 years' has a significance in being designated
as the left-handed cherubim of the ark of the covenant, thereby having an
intimate attendance upon God himself.
It is said that the Torah text [Exodus 23:20-22] specifically refers to the
Archangel Metatron: "Behold, I send an angel of mercy before you to guard
you in the land {Heb. derek}, to bring you into the place which I have
prepared. Pay attention before him and listen to (his) voice, and do not
rebel against his words, for my holy name is invoked upon him, for he will
not forgive or pardon your sins, for my holy name is invoked upon him. But
if you listen to the voice of my Memra {ie. The Lord of Sabaoth as the Lord
of Hosts, Forces & Authority over Chaos, Memra, Word, Shekinah, Holy Spirit;
By Acts of Divine Providence} and do all that it says, I will hate whoever
hates you, and I will oppress whoever oppresses you." [© 1994 The Order of
Saint Benedict Aramaic Targum of Neofiti 1: Exodus 23:20-22]
Jesus of Nazareth, in speaking of John the Baptist's ministry, assigns to
him the role of this Angel as being the Divine Messenger, in fulfillment of
this Torah narrative: "What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A
reed shaken by the wind? But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in
soft {ie. Gk. malakos} garments? Indeed those who are gorgeously appareled
and live in luxury are in the kings' courts. But what did you go out to see?
A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. This is he of whom it
is written: 'Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare
your way {Gk. hodos} before you.' [Exodus 23:20-22] For I say to you, among
those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist;
but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." [Luke
7:24-28]
Of whom some construct a childlike view as insubstantial claim to religious
belief: "That all sin put Christ on the Cross."
Yet, what finally nailed him was a religious and political collusion over
sovereign and autonomous rights related to the Jewish Everlasting Covenant
which had become the causalty of factional opportunism and a corrupted
government which capitulated to the Romans {ie. the Kittim were regarded as
the Angels of Destruction} in the mistaken belief that Caesar as the
Pontifex Maximus represented the anthropocentric conception of Godhead.
And whom Paul asserted was not only "raised-anistemi up from the
dead-nekros, henceforth-meketi vigorous-epischuo" [Acts 13:33-44], but that
he himself was its embodiment: "For he is a chosen-ekloge vessel-skeuos unto
me, to bear-bastazo my name-onoma before-enopion {ie. in the face of} the
Gentiles-ethnos, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will show him
how great things he must suffer-pascho for my name's-onoma sake." [Acts
9:15-16]
The contention being that there exists within the wordview of the "soul of
the Messiah as the demiurge or supernatural animating agent within the
universe as the Shekinah" a four-part division of man and not three as the
George Petty suggests of the Greek who also believed in Number Daemons
associated to the traditional Great Chain of Being {ie. as nomenclature:
#1 - Seraphim, #2 - Cherubim, #3 - Thrones, #4 - Dominions, #5 - Virtues,
#6 - Powers, #7 - Principalities, #8 - Arch-Angels, #9 - Angels} and
Knowing-from matter or mind to body to soul to spirit: '...the Lord-YaHWeH
God-'ELOHIYM (mind) formed man of the dust of the ground (body), and
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (spirit); and man became a
living soul (soul).' [Genesis 2:7]
This Great Chain of Being is supported by an encyclical and Kabbalistic
architecture which also permeates writing or the Hebrews unique
chronological timekeeping practice which by ipso facto gives rise to the
following homoiotic dialectic:
a) Taxonomy {22/7 = 3W1D)
b) 24 hours
c) Topical year (365.2425 x 293 = 6J)
d) 8800 years (% 22)
cf: http://home.iprimus.com.au/telos/images/nous.gif
Evidently there is then a logical and rational explanation for the
relationship of the LOGOS to INFINITY as the basis for a teleological
argument not only for the existence of God as a logical conception of
INFINITY {ie. Telos ('achariyth) = Arch (re'shiyth) + c² : Genesis/Arch as
(22/7) 3W1D ... Jubilee & Torah @ Sinai as 50J + 12 x 6J as 'oth 294 year
cycle + 3W1D = 6,000 (122J3W1D) years as Saturday 1 January 2000 + solar
eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days = Telos}, but its anthropocentric
manifest as LOGOS within the personage of Jesus of Nazareth {ie.
"In the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering."
[Daniel 9:27] = Seder meal on Wednesday 2 April 31 CE the same time of year
when Pope John Paul II died: 2 April 2005
}. Jesus himself said: "Verily-AMEN, verily-AMEN, I say-LEGO unto you,
Before-PRIN Abraham-ABRAAM was, I am-EIMI (ie. I exist)." [John 8:58]
One must therefore assume that such inability to provide a universal
homoiotic noumenon as the basis for reasoned religious/philosophical belief
makes any claim to pre-eminance which is attempted to be advanced by a
Trinitarian argument is entirely suspect.
The philosopher Martin Heidegger (1889-1976 CE), suggests of Hegel's
(1770-1831 CE) Phenomenology of Spirit, "Infinity itself is the actual Logos
as concept. Both the 'logical' and the 'subjective' grounding of infinity-as
we call them in short-are already carried out in the thoroughly concrete
investigation . [and found that] everything [was] still at the beginning and
is more within the scope of a confrontation with tradition; it has not yet
found its own necessary shape. This happens for the first time in the
'System of Science' {ie. The science, whose system is at issue, is the
totality of the highest and most
essential knowledge as philosophy-The way in which philosophy unfolds itself
as absolute knowledge. By providing all sciences with their foundation,
philosophy must certainly be a science [p10]}, whose first part, the
Phenomenology, represents the grounding we mentioned as our 2nd point (the
grounding of infinity in the subject and as subject), while the second part,
the Logic, implements the 1st grounding that we mentioned above (the logical
grounding), which is inherently and necessarily grounded in the 2nd one."
[Martin Heidegger (1889-1976 CE), 'Mediatedness & the Dialectical Movement'
on 'Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit', (c) 1988 Indiana University Press,
ISBN 0-253-20910-2, p 78]
- dolf
- <http://home.iprimus.com.au/telos/kabbalah/noumenon.html>
"George Peatty" <pttyg47-1230@copper.net> wrote in message
news:ph5ma1lsqkgv769dpteldnd61q9qkk1bjt@4ax.com...
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:44:20 GMT, reece <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
[snip]
Since there is nothing like this in creation, we cannot understand it, but
only accept it.
Whatever else might be said of the trinity, it is not unique. Of course, it
is unique in the sense that the trinity applies only to God, but there are
two other examples of the one in three, and three in one, both from creation
...
Man is three in one: body, soul and spirit, and while the unregenerate here
might challenge the existence of the latter two, for anyone who finds
meaning in the scriptures, there is a strong analog in the makeup of any
person to the trinity.
Further, the universe itself is an indivisible three: space, mass (which
includes matter and energy) and time. It is impossible to meaningfully
discuss any one of these without at some point referencing the other two.
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
16 Jun 2005 12:00:43 PM |
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reece <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> spake thusly and wrote:
The Encyclopedia Americana notes that the doctrine of the Trinity is
considered to be “beyond the grasp of human reason.”
Many who accept the Trinity view it that same way. Monsignor Eugene
Clark says: “God is one, and God is three. Since there is nothing like
this in creation, we cannot understand it, but only accept it.” Cardinal
John O’Connor states: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which
we don’t begin to understand.” And Pope John Paul II speaks of “the
inscrutable mystery of God the Trinity.”
The Bible does mention this "mystery religion", eh?
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
It is sad to see how false-christians are so easily manipulated
by their Satanic masters. The devil's man "Clark" quoted above
says that there is "nothing like this in creation", but does not
the Bible say that:
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image
of God created he him; male and female created he them.
When we find one among us who is three seperate persons do we not
lock them up for the safety of society?
Please allow me to introduce "mystery trinity".
Actually I have noticed that the trinitarian will say they
believe different things that happen to suit their whim and
fancy. Since their doctrine is man made, that is easy for them
to do. Then other false christians will join in agreement a la
"The Emperor er's New Clothes" style.
I can actually reveal to you the secrets of the mystery of the
trinity.
Some of the more honest of the trinitarians quoted above admit
that their religion is really a mystery religion that they have
no hope of understanding.
Would men go to a doctor who admitted that he didn't know what he
was doing?
Well let me shed some light about the mystery trinity religion
and why they labor so hard to undermine the importance of Jesus
name baptism.
Most of the false christian churches are harlot daughters of the
RCC. That is another reason that no one can be saved in a
trinity church.
Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had
the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither;
I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ***** that
sitteth upon many waters:
The RCC "sitteth on many waters", she is international.
Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed
fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made
drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Catholic "indulgences" and false religion have made many "drunk"
with her false religion.
Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the
wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,
full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
The "beast" is the economic community that the "*****" (the RCC)
rides on. The nations support the Vatican.
Revelation 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet
colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,
having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and
filthiness of her fornication:
The pomp and jewelry and scarlet robes of the RCC.
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
The RCC is the mother of all of the trinity denomintations. Just
as the earthly harlot sees no need to take the name of a husband,
these spiritual whores reject Jesus name baptism.
Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the
saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I
saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
No organization has murdered (as "heretics") so many real
Apostolic Christians as the Roman Catholic Church! History knows
no other possible organization than the RCC to fit verse Rev
17:6.
The trinitarians are worshipping a mystery religion all right,
but much more than they realize, they are the harlot daughters of
Mystery Babylon herself.
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Trinity denominations are harlot daughters of Mystery Babylon.
Some are honest enough to declare that they worship a mystery
"three persons" that are three yet one, but are really three, or
maybe one or maybe three....ah but it's a "mystery"....
Don't join the mystery harlots in hell. Repent and come out from
among them. Don't let your pride hold you in the filthy sewer of
some *mystery* three god denominal cult.
2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?
for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will
dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and
they shall be my people.
2 Cor 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye
separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I
will receive you,
2 Cor 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons
and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
All should come out of the sewer of *mystery* Babylon and her
trinity sluts.
Pastor sTeve Winter http://www.onegodsermons.com
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
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| User: "Pastor Winter JNAHC" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
13 Jun 2005 01:24:56 AM |
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reece <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter is not willing (and possibly not able) to understand the
doctrine of the trinity.
The Encyclopedia Americana notes that the doctrine of the Trinity is
considered to be “beyond the grasp of human reason.”
Actually I have noticed that the trinitarian will say they
believe different things that happen to suit their whim and
fancy. Since their doctrine is man made, that is easy for them
to do. Then other false christians will join in agreement a la
"The Emperor's New Clothes" style.
I can actually reveal to you the secrets of the mystery of the
trinity.
Some of the more honest of the trinitarians admit that their
religion is really a mystery religion that they have no hope of
understanding.
Well let me shed some light about the mystery trinity religion
and why they labor so hard to undermine the importance of Jesus
name baptism.
Most of the false christian churches are harlot daughters of the
RCC. That is another reason that no one can be saved in a
trinity church.
Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had
the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither;
I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ***** that
sitteth upon many waters:
The RCC "sitteth on many waters", she is international.
Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed
fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made
drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Catholic "indulgences" and false religion have made many "drunk"
with her false religion.
Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the
wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,
full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
The "beast" is the economic community that the "*****" (the RCC)
rides on. The nations support the Vatican.
Revelation 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet
colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,
having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and
filthiness of her fornication:
The pomp and jewelry and scarlet robes of the RCC.
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
The RCC is the mother of all of the trinity denomintations. Just
as the earthly harlot sees no need to take the name of a husband,
these spiritual whores reject Jesus name baptism.
Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the
saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I
saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
No organization has murdered (as "heretics") so many real
Apostolic Christians as the Roman Catholic Church! History knows
no other possible organization than the RCC to fit verse Rev
17:6.
The trinitarians are worshipping a mystery religion all right,
but much more than they realize, they are the harlot daughters of
Mystery Babylon herself.
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Trinity denominations are harlot daughters of Mystery Babylon.
Some are honest enough to declare that they worship a mystery
"three persons" that are three yet one, but are really three, or
maybe one or maybe three....ah but it's a "mystery"....
Don't join the mystery harlots in hell. Repent and come out from
among them. Don't let your pride hold you in the filthy sewer of
some *mystery* three god denominal cult.
2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?
for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will
dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and
they shall be my people.
2 Cor 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye
separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I
will receive you,
2 Cor 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons
and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Come out of the sewer of *mystery* Babylon and her trinity
mystery religion.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
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| User: "Pastor Winter JNAHC" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity study |
05 Jun 2005 02:49:58 PM |
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alt <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Steve Winter is not willing (and possibly not able) to understand the
doctrine of the trinity.
Amazing what liars these three-god false-christian scum are!
See... just like I said!
Scum, dirt false-christian scum, Donovan Hill; I understand the
trinity, I just don't believe it. The trinity is the hogwash and
confusion of carnal, ungodly, polytheistic men trying to play
"christian".
The protestants worship the same three headed idol from Rome that
the Catholics do. All trinitarians are daughters of the RCC.
The false church is following a manmade teaching. They have to go
to "denominal opinions of men" that originated in the 2nd and 3rd
century to explain and discuss their beliefs. It is also
interesting that the same bunch at Rome that dreamed up the
trinity, also ushered in the dark ages by killing people for
possessing Bibles. It is important to realize that the Catholic
Church is the "Great *****" in the book of Rev. and the "mother
of harlots" (the harlots being the denominations that retain the
trinity heresy). The harlot wants relationship with man, but
will not "take the man's name" and will not forsake her
worldly loves for her husband. Just as the harlot churches will
not use Jesus name in baptism, and will not forsake the sins of
the world.
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Here I will show some of the apostles writing that exposes
certain of the false doctrines taught by the harlot churches.:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The harlot trinity churches use the titles of their 3 gods if
they even baptise at all. They ignore Matt 28:19 in which Jesus
said to use a "name," and they just "parrot" the command instead
of obeying it.
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be
preached in his NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy
and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments
of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth ALL the fulness of the Godhead
bodily.
The harlot trinity church doesn't believe that the fulness is in
Jesus, they don't believe that "ye are complete in him", they
teach the tradition of men from the 2nd and 3rd century.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in HIM, which is the head of
all principality and power: Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation
in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given
among men, whereby we must be saved. Also Acts 8:16, 10:48,
10:43, 19:5, Col 3:17
Also here are some historical references showing where tradition
replaced apostolic truth.:
ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA, 11th Ed. Vol. 3 Page 365-366, "The
baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to
the words Father, Son, and Holy Ghost by the Catholic Church in
the 2nd Century." Vol. 3 Page 82 "Everywhere in the oldest
sources it states that baptism took place in the Name of Jesus
Christ."
CANNEY ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION, Page 53 -- "The early church
always baptized in the Name of Lord Jesus until the development
of the trinity doctrine in the 2nd Century."
HASTINGS ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION, Vol. 2 pages 377-378-389, "The
Christian baptism was administered using the Name of Jesus. The
use of the trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in
the early church history, baptism was always in the Name of the
Lord Jesus, until the time of Justin Martyr when the trinity
formula was used." Hastings also said in Vol. 2 Page 377,
commenting on Acts 2:38, "NAME was an ancient synonym for person.
Payment was always made in the name of some person referring to
ownership. Therefore one being baptized in Jesus Name became his
personal property." "Ye are Christ's." I Cor. 3:23.
NEW INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol. 22 Page 477, "The term
"trinity" was originated by Tertullain, Roman Catholic Church
father."
TYNDALE NEW TESTAMENT COMMENTARIES: "... the true explanation why
the early church did not at once administer baptism in the
threefold name is that the words of Mat 28:19 were not meant as a
baptismal formula. [Jesus] was not giving instructions about the
actual words to be used in the service of baptism, but, as has
already been suggested, was indicating that the baptized person
would by baptism pass into the possession of the Father, the Son,
and the Holy Ghost."
THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION AND ETHICS, James Hastings, p.384,
"there is no evidence [in early church history] for the use of
the triune name."
Pastor Steve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
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| User: "Spirit of Truth" |
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| Title: study the business of steve winter! |
07 Jun 2005 10:21:22 PM |
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http://www.sellcom.com/
or call him for the latest sale....1-800-SELLCOM
"Pastor Winter JNAHC" <steve@prime.org> wrote in message
news:up8v91loi6v2b64ari12oect612p7ea8bd@4ax.com...
Whether Satan's servants call their polytheistic philosophies
"trinitarianism", "triunity", or whatever smokescreen or
deception, whether they philosophize about pies being sliced or
apples being diced...
The bottom line is that they REJECT Jesus name baptism for the
remission of sins as preached and practiced by the Apostles and
ALL real Christians since then.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized,
and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Jesus name baptism remits sins!
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God
shall call.
Those that really receive the Word of God are baptized in Jesus
name.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were
baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three
thousand souls.
We have all of these proofs that the Apostles baptised using the
Name of Jesus. It astounds me how these trinity preachers can
deceive souls into believing that their filthy false preacher
knows more than the Apostles!
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things
concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they
were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they
were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be
baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of
the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye
baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism
of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Paul told them to believe on Jesus and what did they immediately
understand that meant?
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name
of the Lord Jesus.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into
Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Paul taught baptism in Jesus Name, but he found that he should
let the local preachers do the baptizing. They were not
baptised in the name of Paul, but rather, in the Name of Jesus.
But we can gain insight from this that a singular NAME was used
in baptism.
1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for
you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but
Crispus and Gaius;
1 Corinthians 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in
mine own name.
1 Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household of
Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
The Bible is so clear in it's warning against trinitarianism.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and
vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of
the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead
bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all
principality and power:
Trinitarian filth like to publish page after page of their
garbage polytheistic philosophies.
Guess what? Satanic preachers do not want you to put on Christ
by being baptized in Jesus NAME!
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
Why do the Satanic false-christian preachers want you to reject
the name of Jesus in baptism?
2 Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers,
transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed
into an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers
also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end
shall be according to their works.
2 Tim 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse,
deceiving, and being deceived.
Pastor sTeve Winter
http://www.onegodsermons.com CDs of services now available
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: study the business of steve winter! |
08 Jun 2005 12:33:16 PM |
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"Spirit of Truth" <truth@earthlink.net> spake thusly and wrote:
or call him for the latest sale
The false-christian scum Lance Ferm can't begin to defend the
stupid garbage that he believes against the Bible so he continues
to solicit harassing calls to my business.
The low life scum at earthlink.net have been give repeated notice
regarding his malicious violations of their TOS but the trash
continue to enable it.
I am saving all these posts as evidence for civil action against
the little trash Lance Ferm and the scum at earthlink who are
knowingly aiding and abetting.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
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| User: "J.W." |
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| Title: Re: study the business of steve winter! |
11 Jun 2005 08:14:07 PM |
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"Spirit of Truth" <truth@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:Sutpe.955$VK4.90@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
http://www.sellcom.com/
or call him for the latest sale....1-800-SELLCOM
So, I wen't and looked at the site. So what? He sells stuff. It's not
illegal and it's not immoral. If some people didn't make a living selling
things, you would be walking around in fig leaves or animal skins and
warming yourself in front of an open fire (although you might be doing that
anyway).
So tell me, what is it about the man's business that is dishonest? Doesn't
the Bible say to earn your living with your own hands? Don't you recall
that the Apostle Paul worked as a tent maker even as he preached the
Gospel?
What is this all about? If you don't like the man or his theology, then
say so and dispute it with him toe to toe. This DOES sound like
harassment. If that is your angle, then shame on you.
John Wadsworth
john4250@value.net
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: study the business of steve winter! |
18 Jun 2005 08:03:39 PM |
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Hello "J.W." <J.W.@hw61.com>,
you posted in alt.religion.christian.calvary-chapel :
"Spirit of Truth" <truth@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:Sutpe.955$VK4.90@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
http://www.sellcom.com/
or call him for the latest sale....1-800-SELLCOM
So, I wen't and looked at the site. So what? He sells stuff. It's not
illegal and it's not immoral. If some people didn't make a living selling
things, you would be walking around in fig leaves or animal skins and
warming yourself in front of an open fire (although you might be doing that
anyway).
So tell me, what is it about the man's business that is dishonest? Doesn't
the Bible say to earn your living with your own hands? Don't you recall
that the Apostle Paul worked as a tent maker even as he preached the
Gospel?
What is this all about? If you don't like the man or his theology, then
say so and dispute it with him toe to toe. This DOES sound like
harassment. If that is your angle, then shame on you.
I noticed that at the top ohis advertizement he says that "most" items
he carries have a 100% guarantee. Anything that fails of course,
likely won't be part of that "most," now will it?
If he does business like he thinks and according to his religious
values, nobody should EVER buy from him!
Christia
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: study the business of steve winter! |
19 Jun 2005 01:27:01 PM |
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spake thusly and wrote:
I noticed that at the top ohis
Malicious false-christian filth like can't
begin to defend the stupid garbage they preach against the Bible
so they must resort to malicious libel and other malicious
activity.
These filth like are liars and fakes.
It looks like the filthy, three-god, malicious, false-christian
dirt AKA is lying
again.
Does not the gutless, anon, devilish AKA
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