| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Winter JNAHC" |
| Date: |
13 Nov 2004 07:36:52 PM |
| Object: |
True Biblical salvation study |
Many of you have see the self proclaimed "christians" railing at
me with various levels of libel and malice, even threats. Why is
that? They don't react that way towards those who publish the
vilest of profanity etc, but for me the reprobates and every
other sort of false-christian imp can set aside their often
strong doctrinal differences to attack me. Why is that do you
think?
Could it be that I expose them for the sham fakes they really
are? Please consider the following Bible study:
Salvation. All churches claim to have it, but if we look at what
they are teaching we see that most all of them have starkly
different requirements for salvation. How can two groups of
people saying opposite things both be right and both headed to
the same eternal destination?
If two groups are teaching opposite things then at least one and
possibly both of them are wrong. What is a person to do to
secure true Biblical salvation?
I believe that the safest path would be to simply obey what the
Apostles preached and practiced, to obey the Bible.
Now I know the devil has a lot of his PR folks teaching that the
Bible is so complicated that you cannot know it so you might as
well not try. If you fall for that then he gotcha!
Isaiah 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it
shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass
over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though
fools, shall not err therein.
God did not give his Word to confuse or alienate people. He gave
it to show us the way and give us true light and understanding.
Psalms 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light
unto my path.
If we want true salvation then we must look at what was taught by
Jesus Christ, then preached upon His authority by Peter, and then
practiced by the apostles consistently. If we do that then we see
two essential elements that make up the Christian new birth.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God.
Those essential elements are: WATER and SPIRIT. We should take
note that a grown man was told by God manifest in the flesh that
he had to be born of water and that he had to be born of the
Spirit.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of
eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
I believe it is important that we remember who was being
addressed and why by Jesus. Jesus told a grown man that he still
needed to be born of water and of Spirit. We who are
"Apostolic" or in other words teach what the Apostles taught know
that the "birth of water" is Jesus Name water baptism.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
The devil's PR folks who fight against the importance of Jesus
Name baptism are not being honest with you or themselves.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned.
Yet even with that verse we still have the devil's crowd
deceiving souls. Look at that verse. Is it telling you to do
one thing or two things? I will give you a hint, please
carefully note God's choice of words when he said the word "and".
Let me try to really break this down. If mama sends you to go
to the store and says to buy eggs and milk does that mean that
she only wants eggs?
We know that Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of God.
Why reject what Peter did with those keys. I have actually had
some of the more ignorant of the devil's PR guys try to teach
people that Peter disobeyed Jesus. He said something like, "Well
I will take Jesus's words over Peter's any day." as he was
trying to justify his defiance of the Bible. The devil sure is
fishing for fools in this hour.
If we can't trust the Apostles we have a big problem. Just who
do the devil's PR guys think it was that kept track of what Jesus
said? Do they really think people are stupid enough to believe
that Jesus just penned in the red words Himself?
Speaking of the devil's servants, I feel I should point out
something here. Note that the Word of God does not teach
tolerance towards ministers of Satan.
2 Cor 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off
occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they
glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming
themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel
of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be
transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be
according to their works.
Notice also what role that Satan's crew will try to play. They
will pretend to be teaching righteousness. Let's get back to
talking about Peter and Jesus.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and
upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell
shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in
heaven.
How can the devil's servants figure that people will be so stupid
that they think they can somehow reject Peter's teachings because
their modern Satanic preacher knows Jesus better? Satan's boys
are really fishing for fools these days.
Anyway, back to our topic of salvation. Peter preached the
"Apostolic" salvation on the Day of Pentecost and the Apostles
adhered to it from then on. That is where we get the concept
"Apostolic Pentecostal". It is really very simple. Those who
are preaching the Pentecostal message that the Apostles preached
are ta da, "Apostolic Pentecostal". I know there are liars who
claim to be who aren't preaching the original message but why
would we be surprised that Satan's crew would lie? Is he not the
father of it? Jesus said to some people:
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your
father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and
abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he
speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the
father of it.
So we don't need to be surprised when the devil's servants lie,
OK?
Back to our salvation topic. We have established that one can't
reject Peter without rejecting the one who gave Peter the keys to
the kingdom of heaven. So let's have a look at what Peter
taught.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both
Lord and Christ.
37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart,
and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and
brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one
of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and
ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all
that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
How can someone in their wildest imagination think that they are
among the "called of God" when they reject the Acts 2:38
salvation that Peter preached on the authority of the Lord Jesus
Christ?
Let me also point out something else here. We see that baptism
is to be done in Jesus Name. Monotheists have no problem with
that, but Satan's polytheistic PR guys really stumble on that and
so often expose themselves that they truly are polytheistic and
really are teaching three god squad members. Something else to
consider is that when people receive the Holy Ghost, they speak
with other tongues.
I know a lot of people fight against this because the devil's PR
guys have found that the best way to keep people from seeking the
baptism of the Holy Ghost is to convince them they already have
it and then just hold them by their pride. But why would someone
desiring and claiming a true Biblical experience be so adamantly
against such a basic Bible principle.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began
to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy
Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied
I have heard the devil's PR guys teaching that Paul didn't
believe in tongues, but Paul said:
1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more
than ye all:
There are examples in the Bible where people received the Holy
Ghost before they
were baptised in Jesus Name. There are also other examples
where people were baptised in Jesus Name before they received the
Holy Ghost.
Looking back, Jesus did not say that the order of the birth of
water and birth of spirit was important.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God.
Whenever either ingredient of the Christian New Birth was
missing, the apostles IMMEDIATELY added the missing one. If a
person was baptized in Jesus Name then the Apostles prayed for
them to receive the Holy Spirit. (that also proves that people
don't automatically receive the Holy Ghost when they "believe" as
some of Satan's PR guys teach. When people received the Holy
Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, the Apostles
immediately baptized them in Jesus Name.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things
concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they
were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized,
he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles
and signs which were done.
14 ¶ Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter
and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they
might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were
baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the
Holy Ghost.
Note how they had been baptized.
Acts 10:44 ¶ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost
fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished,
as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was
poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then
answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,
which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
So how did the Apostles know that Gentiles had received the same
Holy Ghost they had? Now think about all this. Why would
anyone who really loved God and the Bible fight so hard against
basic Bible doctrines? Well, it is because they have become
quite comfortable listening to Satan's sugar coated lies and
Satan just uses their pride like strings to play with them like
puppets.
Those who had even been baptised personally by John the Baptist
were re-baptised in Jesus name for the remission of their sins.
John's baptism was only for a temporary period of time. Jesus
Name baptism does remit sins by the POWER of the shed blood of
God.
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at
Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to
Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye
believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard
whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And
they said, Unto John’s baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of
repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on
him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the
Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost
came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.
So with that verse 2 up there, how are Satan's PR guys still
convincing people that they automatically receive the Holy Ghost
when they first "believe"? Hell is going to have a big bunch of
really embarrassed people, eh?
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and
wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
How does a person have their sins washed away? Clearly it is by
being baptized in Jesus Name which is the METHOD whereby one
calls on the Name of the Lord. That is the reason that
trinitarians will all die in their sins because they reject Jesus
Name water baptism.
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are
risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who
hath raised him from the dead.
Note the essentiality of both WATER and SPIRIT:
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so
be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not
the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Notice here that the Bible speaks of the Spirit of God and the
Spirit of Christ as EXACTLY the same Spirit.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned.
How could Jesus have been more clear regarding the essentiality
of Jesus Name baptism? False-christians are simply not being
honest with themselves.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only,
deceiving your own selves.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is
born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Remember here that Jesus was telling a grown man what he STILL
needed to do in order to be saved. The grown man still had to
be reborn of WATER and of the SPIRIT.
This is totally consistent with the plan of salvation that the
"man with the keys to the kingdom" preached on the birthday of
the New Testament Church.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and
upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell
shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in
heaven.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and
to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God
shall call.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort,
saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
and the same day there were added [unto them] about three
thousand souls.
Here is an example where the re-birth of WATER preceded the
re-birth of SPIRIT
Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard
that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them
Peter and John:
Acts 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that
they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they
were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 8:17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received
the Holy Ghost.
Here is one where the re-birth of SPIRIT preceded the re-birth of
WATER:
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were
astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the
Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify
God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be
baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of
the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Another here where the re-birth of the WATER preceded re-birth of
SPIRIT.
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at
Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to
Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost
since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as
heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized?
And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism
of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name
of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy
Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
The apostles made sure that folks had been re-born both of the
WATER and re-born of the SPIRIT, the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation
that has always been adhered to by true Christianity.
2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us,
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty
angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the
presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at
the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end
be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias
saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into
Christ have put on Christ.
Pastor sTeve Winter
Don't forget the islams either: http://www.islamics.biz
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
|
|
| User: "jw no" |
|
| Title: Re: True Biblical salvation study |
28 Nov 2004 10:19:44 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Winter JNAHC" <steveNONO-SPAM@prime.org> wrote in message
news:1100396102.GIVkV2HBNddM5Jf75V9KZA@teranews...
What is a person to do to secure true Biblical salvation?<<
-----------------------
God offers forgiveness of sins and eternal life as a free gift: "the wages
of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus
our Lord." (Romans 6;23). You must believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and
God who took on a sinless human body, suffered and died for our sins by
shedding His blood on the cross, and then rose body and soul from the dead
on the third day.
True belief (faith) means that we entrust ourselves to the object of our
faith. The apostle John wrote: "He who has the Son of God has eternal life.
He who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (1 John 5).
John also wrote "to all who RECEIVE Him, those who BELIEVE on His name, He
will give them the right to become children of God." (John 1:12). We must
possess Jesus Christ in us and He must have us. He is asking us to receive
HIM into our lives for a personal relationship.
"Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).
Jesus said " I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears My voice and
opens the door, I will come into Him and have fellowship with Him."
(Revelation 3:20). We open the door of our lives by praying to Jesus
Christ: thanking Him that he paid the full penalty on the cross for our sins
and rose from the dead, and then inviting Him to come into our lives and be
our personal Lord and Savior.
Baptism will not save you, or even help to get you saved. There is no
record that the apostles were ever baptized, yet Jesus declared them
cleansed of their sin. The thief on the cross who repented right before he
died called on Jesus Christ to "remember Me when you enter your kingdom."
Jesus promised Him, "today you shall be with Me in paradise." The thief
repented in his heart, but he could not be baptized since he was crucified.
In the gospels, the penitent woman (Luke 7:37-50), the paralytic man
(Matthew 9:2), and the publican (Luke 18:13-14) also experienced forgiveness
of sins apart from baptism. It was their faith and repentant heart that
saved them. Baptism had nothing to do with it.
-----------------------------------------------------
I believe that the safest path would be to simply obey what the
Apostles preached and practiced, to obey the Bible.
If we want true salvation then we must look at what was taught by
Jesus Christ, then preached upon His authority by Peter, and then
practiced by the apostles consistently. If we do that then we see
two essential elements that make up the Christian new birth.
Let's see what the apostle Peter said.
"And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall
be saved." (Acts 2:21). "To Him all the prophets witness that, through
His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins." (Acts
10:34).
"Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have
received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" (Acts 10:47). They already had
the Holy Spirit yet they had not been baptized yet. They were baptized
AFTER they were saved. "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon
them, as upon us at the beginning...If therefore God gave them the same gift
as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I
could withstand God?" Peter said that the Holy Spirit was given after they
"believed."
"Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good
while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the
word of the gospel and believe. So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged
them by giving them the Holy Spirit, ...purifying their hearts by
faith...But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we
shall be saved..." (Acts 15:6, 11). Notice that Peter said that faith
resulted in them receiving the Holy Spirit and being purified.
"Though now you do not see Him, you believe in him,...receiving the end of
your faith, the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1:8-9).
"for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but
imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God." (1
Peter 1:23). Paul also wrote: "...Christ also loved the church and gave
Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by
the washing of water with the word..." (Ephesians 5:25-27). The word of God
is described as being "water" that cleanses. Peter said that we are born
again by the Word of God. When Jesus said that one must be born of Water
and the Spirit, He meant that it is the Word of God, and the Holy Spirit
that will bring a person to faith in Christ for salvation. "Faith comes by
hearing, and hearing through the Word of Christ" (Romans 10:17.).
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
Immediately preceding this statement, Paul wrote: "For you are all sons of
God through faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:26). Additionally, Paul
wrote: "...just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for
righteousness...And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the
Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, 'In
you all the nations shall be blessed.' So then those who are of faith are
blessed with Abraham the believer." (Galatians 3:6-7). Salvation is by
faith alone.
"Baptized into Christ"
Not water baptism, but Spirit baptism. "For by one Spirit we were all
baptized into one body...Now you are Christ's body, and individually members
of it.' (1 Corinthians 12:13, 27). "In [Christ], after listening to the
message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, having also believed, you
were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge
of our inheritance with a view to the redemption of God's own possession..."
(Ephesians 13-14).
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned.
Verses 9-20 do not appear in the two most trustworthy manuscripts of Mark
16. Nevertheless, if we assume that they are part of the inspired text, the
verses clearly show that it is UNBELIEF that results in condemnation, not a
refusal to be baptized. Likewise, verses 17-18 describe miraculous signs
that those who are saved will be able to perform - but note that it says
that these signs will accompany those who "believe," it does not say those
who are baptized.
The baptism here could be the baptism that believers are commanded to
undergo after they are saved by faith, or it could be the baptism of the
individual into the Body of Christ by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
If we can't trust the Apostles we have a big problem. Just who
do the devil's PR guys think it was that kept track of what Jesus
said? Do they really think people are stupid enough to believe
that Jesus just penned in the red words Himself?
the apostle Paul:
"I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,...I also
baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I
baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the
gospel." (1 Corinthians 1:14-17). Paul actually thanks God that he did
not participate in baptizing anyone, except a few people named here. He
clearly made a distinction here between baptism and the Gospel. Paul said
that the gospel "is the power of God for salvation to everyone who
believes." (Romans 1: 16). If baptism is necessary for salvation, the Paul's
words contradict the gospel message itself.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things
concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they
were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized,
he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles
and signs which were done.
<snip>
Note how they had been baptized.
Further on in the same passage, it says that Simon, although he was
baptized, was told by the apostle Peter that he was "in the gall of
bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity." In other words, he was not
saved. His baptism did not cleanse him from sin. Peter did not call on
Simon to get baptized again for his sin to be cleansed, he called on Simon
to "repent, and pray that, if possible, the intention of your heart will be
forgiven."
... how are Satan's PR guys still
convincing people that they automatically receive the Holy Ghost
when they first "believe"? Hell is going to have a big bunch of
really embarrassed people, eh?
"...after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom
also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who
is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased
possession, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14). It is the
Holy Spirit Himself who is the "seal" that we receive when we believe. "And
do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of
redemption." (Ephesians 4:30).
"Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But
if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is
life because of righteousness." All persons who have received Jesus Christ
as Lord and Savior by faith have the Holy Spirit living in them. If they do
not have the Holy Spirit, Paul said that they do not belong to Christ.
The reason why the early Christians in the book of Acts did not have the
Holy Spirit at the time of their salvation was because they were coming out
of a program whereby the Spirit of God did not indwell every believer, only
those who were called to special service, and were entering into the Church
age, whereby the Holy Spirit would indwell every believer and placing them
into the Body of Christ. This type of relationship was not known or
experienced by Old
Testament believers.
Baptism is commanded. However, baptism does not cleanse away sin or obtain
salvation for us. Paul wrote: "it is by grace that you are saved through
faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as the
result of works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8-9). Baptism is
required for those who have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ - as
a public ordinance to testify that they have been totally identified with
Christ in his death,burial and resurrection by faith.
Jesus commanded his 12 apostles "Make disciples of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy
Spirit..." (Matthew 28:19). But, notice, it is the DISCIPLES that Jesus
said should be baptized - it is people who have been forgiven of sin and
have eternal life. Jesus did not say to baptize the unbelievers and
unconverted and get them saved, He said to baptize the disciples.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "----Rod----" |
|
| Title: Re: True Biblical salvation study |
14 Nov 2004 12:46:00 PM |
|
|
Pastor Winter JNAHC wrote:
Many of you have see the self proclaimed "christians" railing at
me with various levels of libel and malice, even threats. Why is
that?
They are reacting to your lies, harrassments and intimidations
directed towards them on usenet.
They don't react that way towards those who publish the
vilest of profanity etc,
What is viler winter, what is the larger crime here, eh..to utter some
profane swear words at your antagonist ? Or to slander and defame others
on usenet, then sue them when they attack you in return by stating the
truth concerning you and your religious sect ? Whats the larger sin here
winter, eh ? Publishing porn on a server, or downloading it and storing
it on your computer, just tio lie about doing so later when it is
pointed out to you that it is in fact a crime ?
Do you want to answer these questions you SWINE, or should we have
cubbies ask you a few more that scare you, eh swine ?
but for me the reprobates and every
other sort of false-christian imp can set aside their often
strong doctrinal differences to attack me. Why is that do you
think?
Here we have little stevie winter....he likes to start trouble but
whines and cries when he has to see it thru to the end...POOR BABY......
Could it be that I expose them for the sham fakes they really
are?
You've only exposed one fake...YOURSELF !
<snip false teachers bible study>
Pastor sTeve Winter
Don't forget the islams either: http://www.islamics.biz
Naw...we can't forget your friends steebie.....
Rod
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Winter JNAHC" |
|
| Title: Re: True Biblical salvation study |
14 Nov 2004 01:13:16 PM |
|
|
----Rod---- <freelance67401@yahoo.com> spake thusly and wrote:
They are reacting to your lies
If I had published any lies the resident USENET coward "Rod"
would be able to post more than empty accusations.
I am glad to see the devil's gutless anon servants angry though.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
|
|
|
| User: "----Rod----" |
|
| Title: Re: True Biblical salvation study |
14 Nov 2004 05:25:23 PM |
|
|
Pastor Winter JNAHC wrote:
----Rod---- <freelance67401@yahoo.com> spake thusly and wrote:
They are reacting to your lies
If I had published any lies the resident USENET coward "Rod"
would be able to post more than empty accusations.
Sure...no problem ! See below !
Lie #1, winter. A person that could care less what scripture says
does NOT quote SCRIPTURE; Elaine quoted Matthew 28:19 : It doesn't
make sense that a devil will fight FOR God and His Word.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
The more weak minded of the polytheistic "romanist"
false-christians think that Matt 28:19 justifies their
polytheism.
Lie #2. Scripture plainly states that there IS a Father, a Son, and a
Holy Spirit, and that these three are ONE God. So in essence,
trinitarianism does not exist for anyone but you.
You, steve winter ARE one of the weak minded against which you so
often rail and falsely accuse, and you have proven that time and again
you prefer to lie and rail on than admit that you have a shortfall when
it comes to understanding scripture and it's intent.
Trinitarianism is an invention of the viler side of your nature,
which twists and attempts to decieve the Word of God, in defiance of His
command to "make My ways straight."
Satisfied now ? Yes folks these are indeed lie that steve winter has
told !
Message-ID: <10ovsu36ho5b4ef@corp.supernews.com>
Rod
.
|
|
|
| User: "Steve Winter" |
|
| Title: Re: True Biblical salvation study |
15 Nov 2004 12:19:15 PM |
|
|
Rod (the anon coward) <freelance67401@yahoo.com> spake thusly and
wrote:
If I had published any lies the resident USENET coward "Rod"
would be able to post more than empty accusations.
Sure...no problem ! See below !
Lie #1, winter. A person that could care less what scripture says
does NOT quote SCRIPTURE; Elaine quoted Matthew 28:19 : It doesn't
make sense that a devil will fight FOR God and His Word.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
Wasn't the resident USENET coward "Rod" trying to play "oneness"
only a few weeks ago?
When a false-christian scum like Merle or the coward Rod posts
scripture it is for the purpose of deceiving souls into hell. It
is like when the devil tried to quote scripture to Jesus.
John 5:43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not:
if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt
call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their
sins.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and
bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing
them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy
Ghost:
In order to obey Matt 28:19 one MUST be aware of the name that
Jesus was referring to. Merely chanting the Bible verse is not
the same as obeying it.
The Apostles obeyed Jesus and used the NAME that Jesus was
referring to. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not names but
rather they are used to specify which NAME that Jesus wanted to
be used.
"Father" is not a NAME, there are many fathers (who also have
names).
"Son" is not a NAME, there are many sons (who also have names).
"Holy Spirit" is not a NAME, and Lord knows that there are a
*bunch* of demons and spirits running around "pretending" to be
"holy" (to numerous to name, but one third of the angels).
Jesus Christ is a NAME. And it is a name that the false churches
hate (at least in baptism, where it counts!).
Look also at the previous verse:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All
power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
If there were any other "trinity god squad members" they would be
powerless.
Some 3 god cultists will actually use the name of Jesus in what
they perceive to be an insult. They will call the true ONE GOD
Apostolic Christians "Jesus only" (and they mean it as an insult
because they actually believe in three separate Catholic gods).
Notice carefully that in Matt 28:19 Jesus said 'name' (singular)
and not 'names' (plural). For those (like the Apostles) that
only believe in ONE GOD, baptism in a singular name does not
present a problem (ONE GOD, ONE NAME).
To find out what the NAME is that fits the ONE GOD who manifested
Himself as "Father"(Spirit) and as "Son"(Flesh) and as "Holy
Spirit"(Spirit of Christ to indwell saints); we can look and see
how the Apostles baptised. The Apostles always baptised in the
name of their God. The Bible says that there is only one name
that can save:
Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of
Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye
crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this
man stand here before you whole.
Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you
builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is
none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be
saved.
There is only one God, and there is only one saving NAME.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission
of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Water Baptism in Jesus name remits sins.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things
concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they
were baptized, both men and women.
People who BELIEVE in the NAME are baptised in that NAME. The
next verse shows how the folks in verse 12 were baptised
Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they
were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved,
turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of
Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
There is POWER in the NAME (that is why the devil and his
ministers fight against Jesus name baptism).
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism
of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name
of the Lord Jesus.
Those who "believed on the name" were baptised in that name.
Good thing they didn't have a scum like Merle Elaine Matthews or
some coward like Rod to "explain" to them why they didn't need to
obey, eh?
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy
Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Acts 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also
dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of
the Lord Jesus was magnified.
Notice also the dire warning against the trinity in the Word
of God and how it is a SPOILER of the souls of men.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy
and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments
of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all
principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made
without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh
by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with
him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised
him from the dead.
Pastor Steve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Spirit of Truth" |
|
| Title: Whoops! No water! |
15 Nov 2004 10:35:43 PM |
|
|
Romans 10:8-10 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth
and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9that if
you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that
God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart
one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto
salvation.
http://www.truthandgrace.com
"Heretic Winter JNAHC" <steve@prime.org> wrote in message
news:1100396102.GIVkV2HBNddM5Jf75V9KZA@teranews...
Many of you have see the self proclaimed "christians" railing at
me with various levels of libel and malice, even threats. Why is
that? They don't react that way towards those who publish the
vilest of profanity etc, but for me the reprobates and every
other sort of false-christian imp can set aside their often
strong doctrinal differences to attack me. Why is that do you
think?
Could it be that I expose them for the sham fakes they really
are? Please consider the following Bible study:
Salvation. All churches claim to have it, but if we look at what
they are teaching we see that most all of them have starkly
different requirements for salvation. How can two groups of
people saying opposite things both be right and both headed to
the same eternal destination?
If two groups are teaching opposite things then at least one and
possibly both of them are wrong. What is a person to do to
secure true Biblical salvation?
I believe that the safest path would be to simply obey what the
Apostles preached and practiced, to obey the Bible.
Now I know the devil has a lot of his PR folks teaching that the
Bible is so complicated that you cannot know it so you might as
well not try. If you fall for that then he gotcha!
Isaiah 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it
shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass
over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though
fools, shall not err therein.
God did not give his Word to confuse or alienate people. He gave
it to show us the way and give us true light and understanding.
Psalms 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light
unto my path.
If we want true salvation then we must look at what was taught by
Jesus Christ, then preached upon His authority by Peter, and then
practiced by the apostles consistently. If we do that then we see
two essential elements that make up the Christian new birth.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God.
Those essential elements are: WATER and SPIRIT. We should take
note that a grown man was told by God manifest in the flesh that
he had to be born of water and that he had to be born of the
Spirit.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of
eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
I believe it is important that we remember who was being
addressed and why by Jesus. Jesus told a grown man that he still
needed to be born of water and of Spirit. We who are
"Apostolic" or in other words teach what the Apostles taught know
that the "birth of water" is Jesus Name water baptism.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
The devil's PR folks who fight against the importance of Jesus
Name baptism are not being honest with you or themselves.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned.
Yet even with that verse we still have the devil's crowd
deceiving souls. Look at that verse. Is it telling you to do
one thing or two things? I will give you a hint, please
carefully note God's choice of words when he said the word "and".
Let me try to really break this down. If mama sends you to go
to the store and says to buy eggs and milk does that mean that
she only wants eggs?
We know that Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of God.
Why reject what Peter did with those keys. I have actually had
some of the more ignorant of the devil's PR guys try to teach
people that Peter disobeyed Jesus. He said something like, "Well
I will take Jesus's words over Peter's any day." as he was
trying to justify his defiance of the Bible. The devil sure is
fishing for fools in this hour.
If we can't trust the Apostles we have a big problem. Just who
do the devil's PR guys think it was that kept track of what Jesus
said? Do they really think people are stupid enough to believe
that Jesus just penned in the red words Himself?
Speaking of the devil's servants, I feel I should point out
something here. Note that the Word of God does not teach
tolerance towards ministers of Satan.
2 Cor 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off
occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they
glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming
themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel
of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be
transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be
according to their works.
Notice also what role that Satan's crew will try to play. They
will pretend to be teaching righteousness. Let's get back to
talking about Peter and Jesus.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and
upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell
shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in
heaven.
How can the devil's servants figure that people will be so stupid
that they think they can somehow reject Peter's teachings because
their modern Satanic preacher knows Jesus better? Satan's boys
are really fishing for fools these days.
Anyway, back to our topic of salvation. Peter preached the
"Apostolic" salvation on the Day of Pentecost and the Apostles
adhered to it from then on. That is where we get the concept
"Apostolic Pentecostal". It is really very simple. Those who
are preaching the Pentecostal message that the Apostles preached
are ta da, "Apostolic Pentecostal". I know there are liars who
claim to be who aren't preaching the original message but why
would we be surprised that Satan's crew would lie? Is he not the
father of it? Jesus said to some people:
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your
father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and
abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he
speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the
father of it.
So we don't need to be surprised when the devil's servants lie,
OK?
Back to our salvation topic. We have established that one can't
reject Peter without rejecting the one who gave Peter the keys to
the kingdom of heaven. So let's have a look at what Peter
taught.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both
Lord and Christ.
37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart,
and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and
brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one
of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and
ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all
that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
How can someone in their wildest imagination think that they are
among the "called of God" when they reject the Acts 2:38
salvation that Peter preached on the authority of the Lord Jesus
Christ?
Let me also point out something else here. We see that baptism
is to be done in Jesus Name. Monotheists have no problem with
that, but Satan's polytheistic PR guys really stumble on that and
so often expose themselves that they truly are polytheistic and
really are teaching three god squad members. Something else to
consider is that when people receive the Holy Ghost, they speak
with other tongues.
I know a lot of people fight against this because the devil's PR
guys have found that the best way to keep people from seeking the
baptism of the Holy Ghost is to convince them they already have
it and then just hold them by their pride. But why would someone
desiring and claiming a true Biblical experience be so adamantly
against such a basic Bible principle.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began
to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy
Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied
I have heard the devil's PR guys teaching that Paul didn't
believe in tongues, but Paul said:
1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more
than ye all:
There are examples in the Bible where people received the Holy
Ghost before they
were baptised in Jesus Name. There are also other examples
where people were baptised in Jesus Name before they received the
Holy Ghost.
Looking back, Jesus did not say that the order of the birth of
water and birth of spirit was important.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God.
Whenever either ingredient of the Christian New Birth was
missing, the apostles IMMEDIATELY added the missing one. If a
person was baptized in Jesus Name then the Apostles prayed for
them to receive the Holy Spirit. (that also proves that people
don't automatically receive the Holy Ghost when they "believe" as
some of Satan's PR guys teach. When people received the Holy
Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, the Apostles
immediately baptized them in Jesus Name.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things
concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they
were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized,
he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles
and signs which were done.
14 ¶ Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter
and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they
might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were
baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the
Holy Ghost.
Note how they had been baptized.
Acts 10:44 ¶ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost
fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished,
as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was
poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then
answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,
which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
So how did the Apostles know that Gentiles had received the same
Holy Ghost they had? Now think about all this. Why would
anyone who really loved God and the Bible fight so hard against
basic Bible doctrines? Well, it is because they have become
quite comfortable listening to Satan's sugar coated lies and
Satan just uses their pride like strings to play with them like
puppets.
Those who had even been baptised personally by John the Baptist
were re-baptised in Jesus name for the remission of their sins.
John's baptism was only for a temporary period of time. Jesus
Name baptism does remit sins by the POWER of the shed blood of
God.
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at
Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to
Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye
believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard
whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And
they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of
repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on
him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the
Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost
came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.
So with that verse 2 up there, how are Satan's PR guys still
convincing people that they automatically receive the Holy Ghost
when they first "believe"? Hell is going to have a big bunch of
really embarrassed people, eh?
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and
wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
How does a person have their sins washed away? Clearly it is by
being baptized in Jesus Name which is the METHOD whereby one
calls on the Name of the Lord. That is the reason that
trinitarians will all die in their sins because they reject Jesus
Name water baptism.
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are
risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who
hath raised him from the dead.
Note the essentiality of both WATER and SPIRIT:
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so
be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not
the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Notice here that the Bible speaks of the Spirit of God and the
Spirit of Christ as EXACTLY the same Spirit.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned.
How could Jesus have been more clear regarding the essentiality
of Jesus Name baptism? False-christians are simply not being
honest with themselves.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only,
deceiving your own selves.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is
born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Remember here that Jesus was telling a grown man what he STILL
needed to do in order to be saved. The grown man still had to
be reborn of WATER and of the SPIRIT.
This is totally consistent with the plan of salvation that the
"man with the keys to the kingdom" preached on the birthday of
the New Testament Church.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and
upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell
shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in
heaven.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and
to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God
shall call.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort,
saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
and the same day there were added [unto them] about three
thousand souls.
Here is an example where the re-birth of WATER preceded the
re-birth of SPIRIT
Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard
that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them
Peter and John:
Acts 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that
they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they
were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 8:17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received
the Holy Ghost.
Here is one where the re-birth of SPIRIT preceded the re-birth of
WATER:
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were
astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the
Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify
God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be
baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of
the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Another here where the re-birth of the WATER preceded re-birth of
SPIRIT.
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at
Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to
Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost
since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as
heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized?
And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism
of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name
of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy
Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
The apostles made sure that folks had been re-born both of the
WATER and re-born of the SPIRIT, the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation
that has always been adhered to by true Christianity.
2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us,
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty
angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the
presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at
the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end
be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias
saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into
Christ have put on Christ.
Pastor sTeve Winter
Don't forget the islams either: http://www.islamics.biz
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Steve Winter" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
16 Nov 2004 06:05:53 PM |
|
|
"Lance Ferm" <truth@earthlink.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Romans 10:8-10 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth
and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9that if
you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that
God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart
one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto
salvation.
The false-christian scum Lance Ferm only posts occasional out of
context scriptures in his efforts to deceive souls into a
comfortable disobedience of the Bible.
False-christian scum and other such like spiritual filth need to
be aware that the book of Romans is a letter that is not
addressed to them.
Please have a look at my Bible studies at
http://www.prerapture.org/Biblmain.html since many questions are
answered there already.
Here is a study that I hope will be a blessing to all and that
they will be able to spot filth like Lance Ferm as the deceivers
they are. We need to remember that Romans is a letter written to
people who had already been baptised in Jesus Name and had
received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other
tongues.
Always remember that the book of Romans was a letter that was
written to the Church at Rome. It was a letter written to
Christians, to people who had ALREADY become Christians.
The book of Romans is not addressed to Christ rejecting scum like
Lance Ferm.
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be
saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord
Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all,
that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
The Epistles of the Bible were all letters written to Christians
instructing them how to STAY Christians, and how to please the
Lord.
Many antichrist preachers like Lance Ferm will use verses that
were written to people who had ALREADY been "born again". They
will use these verses to deceive people who have never become
Christians. For example notice these verses that were written to
people at Rome who were ALREADY Christians.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
These verses are excellent instructions for people who have
ALREADY obeyed Acts 2:38 and become Christians (we see in Acts 19
that when Paul founded churches he preached Acts 2:38). A
Christian that will obey Romans 10:9-10 will remain strong and
will endure to the end and will be saved.
The filthy antichrist preacher, though, will use Romans 10:9-10
to deceive sinners into thinking that all they have to do is
mouth a few words and they are suddenly "Christian" and "saved".
If we simply understand that Romans was a letter written to
people who had ALREADY become Christians by obeying Acts 2:38,
then we can spot those accursed false preachers when they attempt
to deceive people into disobeying the Word of God.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and
to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God
shall call.
Notice the phrase, "as many as the Lord our God shall call."
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any
other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you,
let him be accursed.
II Corinthians 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may
cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein
they glory, they may be found even as we.
II Corinthians 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful
workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
II Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is
transformed into an angel of light.
II Corinthians 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his
ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness;
whose end shall be according to their works.
Don't be surprised that Satan's ministers like the filthy
deceiver Lance Ferm will pretend to be Christian preachers, the
Bible says that they will do that; and it is their job
to convince YOU that you can be saved without obeying the Bible.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "tsquare21" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
17 Nov 2004 12:48:01 AM |
|
|
"Spirit of Truth" <truth@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<zsfmd.225$Qh3.56@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Romans 10:8-10 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth
and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if
you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that
God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart
one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto
salvation.
Romans 10:9 this is what your going to appear before Jesus with, ok
lets examine this shall we.
Paul is writing to Saved Christians here. That is why he wrote SHALT
be saved. In other words this my friend is a conditional verse and
require that we continue in something to be saved. maybe it as simple
as since I am saved if I keep believing and trusting in Jesus I shall
be one of the 5 wise virgins. I believe that there is more to Romans
10;9 though.
Rom 10:9-12 are verses that supports the importance of faith in the
name of Jesus. Verse 13 is where salvation takes place for here we
see that one SHALL be saved after you call on Jesus name. But wait
one can't call on Jesus in whom he has not heard...without a preacher
verse 14. Of course verse 15 mentions the importance of preachers
being sent by God.
Romans 10 is a classic example of reverse philosophy, in that the
conclusion is presented first then the initial state. The initial
state was the preachers being sent, as we see in Acts 2. Here the
initial state is the disciples waiting to be sent by God in the upper
room. After the power from on high is received, the word goes forth
through Peters preaching to the crowed. Finally after the people hear
and believe the word they are pricked in there hearts to obey the word
they just heard. That message in Acts 2:38 agree with Rom 10:13 "for
whosoever (i LOVE that word) shall call on the name of the Lord shall
be saved..
Baptism is the place where we are to call on the name of Jesus for
salvation. I believe that Mark 16:16 says "he that believith and IS
baptized shall be saved ..." Luke 24:47 "repentance and remission of
sins should be preached in his name among all nations. Finally Mat
28:26 baptizing them in the name ...
There must be something about that Name above all other names.
"Whatsoever you do in word or DEED do all in the name of JESUS"
I may agree with Steve's messages
I just don't think I would want to fellowship with him
-so big SNIP-
Pastor sTeve Winter
.
|
|
|
| User: "brian" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
17 Nov 2004 09:20:29 PM |
|
|
"tsquare21" <tlthomas@quadnet.net> wrote in message
news:d57477e1.0411162248.44c49b5f@posting.google.com...
"Spirit of Truth" <truth@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<zsfmd.225$Qh3.56@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Romans 10:8-10 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth
and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if
you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that
God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart
one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made
unto
salvation.
Romans 10:9 this is what your going to appear before Jesus with, ok
lets examine this shall we.
Paul is writing to Saved Christians here. That is why he wrote SHALT
be saved. In other words this my friend is a conditional verse and
require that we continue in something to be saved. maybe it as simple
as since I am saved if I keep believing and trusting in Jesus I shall
be one of the 5 wise virgins. I believe that there is more to Romans
10;9 though.
Rom 10:9-12 are verses that supports the importance of faith in the
name of Jesus. Verse 13 is where salvation takes place for here we
see that one SHALL be saved after you call on Jesus name. But wait
one can't call on Jesus in whom he has not heard...without a preacher
verse 14. Of course verse 15 mentions the importance of preachers
being sent by God.
Romans 10 is a classic example of reverse philosophy, in that the
conclusion is presented first then the initial state. The initial
state was the preachers being sent, as we see in Acts 2. Here the
initial state is the disciples waiting to be sent by God in the upper
room. After the power from on high is received, the word goes forth
through Peters preaching to the crowed. Finally after the people hear
and believe the word they are pricked in there hearts to obey the word
they just heard. That message in Acts 2:38 agree with Rom 10:13 "for
whosoever (i LOVE that word) shall call on the name of the Lord shall
be saved..
Baptism is the place where we are to call on the name of Jesus for
salvation. I believe that Mark 16:16 says "he that believith and IS
baptized shall be saved ..." Luke 24:47 "repentance and remission of
sins should be preached in his name among all nations. Finally Mat
28:26 baptizing them in the name ...
There must be something about that Name above all other names.
"Whatsoever you do in word or DEED do all in the name of JESUS"
I may agree with Steve's messages
I just don't think I would want to fellowship with him
well pardon me, If I may respectfully point out. that the people who
developed the canon were for the most part Trinitarians, and like it or not
they were Catholic or orthodox. Oh sir do you really agree with that mans
message? Look at what he said to you.
.
|
|
|
| User: "tsquare21" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
19 Nov 2004 12:02:41 AM |
|
|
"brian"
news:<zsfmd.225$Qh3.56@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Romans 10:8-10 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth
and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if
you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that
God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart
one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made
unto
salvation.
Romans 10:9 this is what your going to appear before Jesus with, ok
lets examine this shall we.
Paul is writing to Saved Christians here. That is why he wrote SHALT
be saved. In other words this my friend is a conditional verse and
require that we continue in something to be saved. maybe it as simple
as since I am saved if I keep believing and trusting in Jesus I shall
be one of the 5 wise virgins. I believe that there is more to Romans
10;9 though.
Rom 10:9-12 are verses that supports the importance of faith in the
name of Jesus. Verse 13 is where salvation takes place for here we
see that one SHALL be saved after you call on Jesus name. But wait
one can't call on Jesus in whom he has not heard...without a preacher
verse 14. Of course verse 15 mentions the importance of preachers
being sent by God.
Romans 10 is a classic example of reverse philosophy, in that the
conclusion is presented first then the initial state. The initial
state was the preachers being sent, as we see in Acts 2. Here the
initial state is the disciples waiting to be sent by God in the upper
room. After the power from on high is received, the word goes forth
through Peters preaching to the crowed. Finally after the people hear
and believe the word they are pricked in there hearts to obey the word
they just heard. That message in Acts 2:38 agree with Rom 10:13 "for
whosoever (i LOVE that word) shall call on the name of the Lord shall
be saved..
Baptism is the place where we are to call on the name of Jesus for
salvation. I believe that Mark 16:16 says "he that believith and IS
baptized shall be saved ..." Luke 24:47 "repentance and remission of
sins should be preached in his name among all nations. Finally Mat
28:26 baptizing them in the name ...
There must be something about that Name above all other names.
"Whatsoever you do in word or DEED do all in the name of JESUS"
I may agree with Steve's messages
I just don't think I would want to fellowship with him
well pardon me, If I may respectfully point out. that the people who
developed the canon were for the most part Trinitarians, and like it or not
they were Catholic or orthodox. Oh sir do you really agree with that mans
message? Look at what he said to you.
Cannon??? in that do you refer to the manuscript that was used to
right the modern bible. Or in cannon are you referring to the office
that the different churches use to established order..
In either instance cannon is a office devised of men and may or may
not be biblical. If these men follow the bible and all it's
salvation plan then they are scriptural based. However, any deviation
of biblical doctrine by the cannon offices makes them, those that
follow them and their organization outside the will of God.
In any case the cannon office at best remains unscriptual because it's
established by men and not God. Of course any time you wish to
explain the cannon office in the scriptures fill free to. But wait
like the TRINITY the word never appears any where in the bible.
Making my point that these concepts originates from the dispositions
of canonized men.
About winters opinion of me. so
.
|
|
|
| User: "brian" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
19 Nov 2004 02:04:09 AM |
|
|
"tsquare21" <tlthomas@quadnet.net> wrote in message
news:d57477e1.0411182202.107a37de@posting.google.com...
"brian"
news:<zsfmd.225$Qh3.56@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Romans 10:8-10 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your
mouth
and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that
if
you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart
that
God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the
heart
one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made
unto
salvation.
Romans 10:9 this is what your going to appear before Jesus with, ok
lets examine this shall we.
Paul is writing to Saved Christians here. That is why he wrote SHALT
be saved. In other words this my friend is a conditional verse and
require that we continue in something to be saved. maybe it as simple
as since I am saved if I keep believing and trusting in Jesus I shall
be one of the 5 wise virgins. I believe that there is more to Romans
10;9 though.
Rom 10:9-12 are verses that supports the importance of faith in the
name of Jesus. Verse 13 is where salvation takes place for here we
see that one SHALL be saved after you call on Jesus name. But wait
one can't call on Jesus in whom he has not heard...without a preacher
verse 14. Of course verse 15 mentions the importance of preachers
being sent by God.
Romans 10 is a classic example of reverse philosophy, in that the
conclusion is presented first then the initial state. The initial
state was the preachers being sent, as we see in Acts 2. Here the
initial state is the disciples waiting to be sent by God in the upper
room. After the power from on high is received, the word goes forth
through Peters preaching to the crowed. Finally after the people hear
and believe the word they are pricked in there hearts to obey the word
they just heard. That message in Acts 2:38 agree with Rom 10:13 "for
whosoever (i LOVE that word) shall call on the name of the Lord shall
be saved..
Baptism is the place where we are to call on the name of Jesus for
salvation. I believe that Mark 16:16 says "he that believith and IS
baptized shall be saved ..." Luke 24:47 "repentance and remission of
sins should be preached in his name among all nations. Finally Mat
28:26 baptizing them in the name ...
There must be something about that Name above all other names.
"Whatsoever you do in word or DEED do all in the name of JESUS"
I may agree with Steve's messages
I just don't think I would want to fellowship with him
well pardon me, If I may respectfully point out. that the people who
developed the canon were for the most part Trinitarians, and like it or
not
they were Catholic or orthodox. Oh sir do you really agree with that mans
message? Look at what he said to you.
Cannon??? in that do you refer to the manuscript that was used to
right the modern bible. Or in cannon are you referring to the office
that the different churches use to established order..
In either instance cannon is a office devised of men and may or may
not be biblical. If these men follow the bible and all it's
salvation plan then they are scriptural based. However, any deviation
of biblical doctrine by the cannon offices makes them, those that
follow them and their organization outside the will of God.
In any case the cannon office at best remains unscriptual because it's
established by men and not God. Of course any time you wish to
explain the cannon office in the scriptures fill free to. But wait
like the TRINITY the word never appears any where in the bible.
Making my point that these concepts originates from the dispositions
of canonized men.
About winters opinion of me. so
well if I mix up the spelling of a word, my apologies. As for the list of
books that are considered "biblical", it seems that many they were derived
from people who were "Trinitarians". I may well be wrong. It seems you are
saying if a word is not in "scripture" then that word or concept they word
may be speaking of are not "scriptural? That opens a big hole in my eyes,
again I may be wrong. My point is simple the early church was rather fluid
and very diverse. To think we understand what the very early church
believed, taught, and how they acted is incredibly sketchy.
As for what that man said about you, you said you support his messages, most
of his messages are calling other people names, mocking them. Do you agree
with that message? I hope you and your family have a nice Thanksgiving.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Steve Winter" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
17 Nov 2004 02:17:00 PM |
|
|
(tsquare21) spake thusly and wrote:
I may agree with Steve's messages
I just don't think I would want to fellowship with him
We don't need reprobate spiritual sluts out here. You muddy the
waters between Saint and sinner. Why don't you crawl back into
the sewer for a while and some day, if you happen to somehow gain
some spiritual maturity, come back up, ok?
Let me guess. You are UPCI right? You are also among the
pompous pride engorged spiritual filth that have dragged that
organization down, right?
Go away. We don't need pompous, pride engorged trash like you
out here.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
|
|
|
| User: "=?UTF-8?B?16jXmdea?=" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
17 Nov 2004 05:06:18 PM |
|
|
Steve Winter wrote:
tlthomas@quadnet.net (tsquare21) spake thusly and wrote:
I may agree with Steve's messages
I just don't think I would want to fellowship with him
We don't need reprobate spiritual sluts out here.
Then what are you doing here ?
You muddy the
waters between Saint and sinner. Why don't you crawl back into
the sewer for a while and some day, if you happen to somehow gain
some spiritual maturity, come back up, ok?
What a wonderfull example of what Christianity really is today, eh ??
Let me guess.
Knock yourself out, steebie !
You are UPCI right?
Buzzzzzzz...Blurppppppp.....wwwrrongggg..hhh !
You are also among the
pompous pride engorged spiritual filth that have dragged that
organization down, right?
Then...you will batise us into the JNAHC ????
Go away.
YOU go away ! I'm going to stay awhile.
We don't need pompous, pride engorged trash like me
out here.
Pastor Winter
Rod
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
08 Dec 2004 01:32:24 PM |
|
|
Giggles :-)
"???" <"---none"@none.no> wrote in message
news:10pnmbcn7ujk8a5@corp.supernews.com...
Steve Winter wrote:
tlthomas@quadnet.net (tsquare21) spake thusly and wrote:
I may agree with Steve's messages I just don't think I would want to
fellowship with him
We don't need reprobate spiritual sluts out here.
Then what are you doing here ?
You muddy the
waters between Saint and sinner. Why don't you crawl back into
the sewer for a while and some day, if you happen to somehow gain
some spiritual maturity, come back up, ok?
What a wonderfull example of what Christianity really is today, eh ??
Let me guess.
Knock yourself out, steebie !
You are UPCI right?
Buzzzzzzz...Blurppppppp.....wwwrrongggg..hhh !
You are also among the
pompous pride engorged spiritual filth that have dragged that
organization down, right?
Then...you will batise us into the JNAHC ????
Go away.
YOU go away ! I'm going to stay awhile.
We don't need pompous, pride engorged trash like me
out here.
Pastor Winter
Rod
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "brian" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
17 Nov 2004 09:24:09 PM |
|
|
snip
Rod
Rod your better then this guy, far better. I hope you find peace, as for me
I try to ignore it, but usenet is becoming useless and I think Im just going
to chuck it. There is no spirit here anymore. Other the ARC I have seen
little help, and much damage done to people like yourself, Mark and others.
Have a nice holiday.
.
|
|
|
| User: "=?UTF-8?B?16jXmdea?=" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
17 Nov 2004 09:58:22 PM |
|
|
brian wrote:
snip
Rod
Rod your better then this guy, far better. I hope you find peace, as for me
I try to ignore it, but usenet is becoming useless and I think Im just going
to chuck it. There is no spirit here anymore. Other the ARC I have seen
little help, and much damage done to people like yourself, Mark and others.
Have a nice holiday.
You're to nice Brian, but thank you. I think the key to finding
peace is to know ALL the truth, not simply what other men want you to
hear. Somehow, I get the feeling that you and I travel similiar roads,
but whatever road you take I wish you well, and I hope you find whatever
you are searching for.
As for leaving usenet, it is better because of your presence; it is
spirit and hope that make the difference. Spirit brings knowledge and
light, hope brings strength and courage. Contemporary Christianity says
that God is DONE working and speaking, but I was healed in my own bed in
the middle of the night of a very persistent hip problem, and my eyes
were open just long enough to see someone very bright standing over me
with outstretched hands, them my consciousness left me.
What I am trying to say is that if I know anything at all about God,
it is this; HE conforms to NO mans ideals. I don't believe everything I
read in the KJV anymore than I believe everything mans claims that he
knows about God. I see the KJ bible as an attempt by man to rob God of
the message HE intended man to have.
Have a very nice holiday Brian, and don't give up on usenet...
Rod
.
|
|
|
| User: "tsquare21" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
19 Nov 2004 12:26:38 AM |
|
|
brian wrote:
snip
Rod
Rod your better then this guy, far better. I hope you find peace, as for me
I try to ignore it, but usenet is becoming useless and I think Im just going
to chuck it. There is no spirit here anymore. Other the ARC I have seen
little help, and much damage done to people like yourself, Mark and others.
Have a nice holiday.
You're to nice Brian, but thank you. I think the key to finding
peace is to know ALL the truth, not simply what other men want you to
hear. Somehow, I get the feeling that you and I travel similiar roads,
but whatever road you take I wish you well, and I hope you find whatever
you are searching for.
As for leaving usenet, it is better because of your presence; it is
spirit and hope that make the difference. Spirit brings knowledge and
light, hope brings strength and courage. Contemporary Christianity says
that God is DONE working and speaking, but I was healed in my own bed in
the middle of the night of a very persistent hip problem, and my eyes
were open just long enough to see someone very bright standing over me
with outstretched hands, them my consciousness left me.
What I am trying to say is that if I know anything at all about God,
it is this; HE conforms to NO mans ideals. I don't believe everything I
read in the KJV anymore than I believe everything mans claims that he
knows about God. I see the KJ bible as an attempt by man to rob God of
the message HE intended man to have.
Have a very nice holiday Brian, and don't give up on usenet...
Rod
Hi Rod, shout out to Brian also.
Rod your thoughts on the Bible (KJV, the one I trust) concerns me. I
find that to trust the KJV is the way to better understand God. I
guess you can class me as a littlest it that regard. For what other
source can we trust to revel the nature of God and His salvation plan.
I think the trouble most people have with the bible is that they are
subjected to different doctrines all being supported by scripture. So
it may then be not the bible that we have questions of but the
interpretations of scripture we should question.
Interesting being a literalism I find I don't have this problem. For
doctrine that come into suspect must be confirmed literally within the
bible. literally I mean that if John 3;5 states water AND Spirit to
enter heaven, without interpretations I seek confirming scriptures
mentioning water And Spirit. See literally interpreted without man's
dogma messing the inspired word of God.
Yes, I do believe the bible is the only way we can know God.
.
|
|
|
| User: "=?UTF-8?B?16jXmdea?=" |
|
| Title: Re: Whoops! No water! |
19 Nov 2004 03:52:02 PM |
|
|
tsquare21 wrote:
brian wrote:
snip
Rod
Rod your better then this guy, far better. I hope you find peace, as for me
I try to ignore it, but usenet is becoming useless and I think Im just going
to chuck it. There is no spirit here anymore. Other the ARC I have seen
little help, and much damage done to people like yourself, Mark and others.
Have a nice holiday.
You're to nice Brian, but thank you. I think the key to finding
peace is to know ALL the truth, not simply what other men want you to
hear. Somehow, I get the feeling that you and I travel similiar roads,
but whatever road you take I wish you well, and I hope you find whatever
you are searching for.
As for leaving usenet, it is better because of your presence; it is
spirit and hope that make the difference. Spirit brings knowledge and
light, hope brings strength and courage. Contemporary Christianity says
that God is DONE working and speaking, but I was healed in my own bed in
the middle of the night of a very persistent hip problem, and my eyes
were open just long enough to see someone very bright standing over me
with outstretched hands, them my consciousness left me.
What I am trying to say is that if I know anything at all about God,
it is this; HE conforms to NO mans ideals. I don't believe everything I
read in the KJV anymore than I believe everything mans claims that he
knows about God. I see the KJ bible as an attempt by man to rob God of
the message HE intended man to have.
Have a very nice holiday Brian, and don't give up on usenet...
Rod
Hi Rod, | | | | | | | | |