True Christianity Defended

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"Carl"
Date:	12 Dec 2007 11:53:30 PM
Object:	True Christianity Defended

A very interesting Biblical lesson from John Wesley.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
True Christianity Defended
by John Wesley
"How is the faithful city become an harlot!" Isa. 2:21.
1. "When I bring the sword upon a land, saith the Lord, if the watchman blow
the trumpet, and warn the people; then whosoever heareth the sound of the
trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come and take him away, his
blood shall be upon his own head. But if the watchman see the sword come,
and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come,
and take away any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity,
but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand." (Ezek. 33:2-6.)
2. It cannot be doubted, but that word of the Lord is come unto every
Minister of Christ also. "So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman
unto the house of Israel: Therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth,
and warn them from me. When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt
surely die: If thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that
wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine
hand."
3. Nor ought any man, therefore, to be accounted our enemy because he
telleth us the truth: The doing of which is indeed an instance of love to
our neighbour, as well as of obedience to God. Otherwise, few would
undertake so thankless a task: For the return they will find, they know
already. The Scripture must be fulfilled: "Me the world hateth," saith our
Lord, "because I testify of it that the deeds thereof are evil."
4. It is from a full, settled conviction, that I owe this labour of love to
my brethren, and to my tender parent, [alma mater: The University of Oxford]
by whom I have been nourished for now more than twenty years, and from whom,
under God, I have received those advantages of which I trust I shall retain
a grateful sense till my spirit returns to God who gave it; it is, I say,
from a full conviction that love and gratitude, as well as that dispensation
of the gospel wherewith I am entrusted, require it of me, that even I have
undertaken to speak on a needful, though unwelcome, subject. I would indeed
have wished that some more acceptable person would have done this. But
should all hold their peace, the very stones would cry out, "How is the
faithful city become an harlot!"
5. How faithful she was once to her Lord, to whom she had been betrothed as
a chaste virgin, let not only the writings of her sons, which shall be had
in honour throughout all generations, but also the blood of her martyrs,
speak; -- a stronger testimony of her faithfulness than could be given by
words, even
By all the speeches of the babbling earth.
But how is she now become an harlot! How hath she departed from her Lord!
How hath she denied him, and listened to the voice of strangers! both,
I. In respect of doctrine; and,
II. Of practice.
I. In respect of doctrine.
1. It cannot be said that all our writers are setters forth of strange
doctrines. There are those who expound the oracles of God by the same Spirit
wherewith they were written; and who faithfully cleave to the solid
foundation which our Church hath laid agreeable thereto; touching which we
have His word who cannot lie, that "the gates of hell shall not prevail
against it." There are those also, (blessed be the Author of every good
gift!) who, as wise master-builders, build thereon, not hay or stubble, but
gold and precious stones, -- but that charity which never faileth.
2. We have likewise cause to give thanks to the Father of Lights, for that
he hath not left himself without witness; but that there are those who now
preach the gospel of peace, the truth as it is in Jesus. But how few are
these in comparison of those (_hoi kapEleuontes_) who adulterate the word of
God! How little wholesome food have we for our souls, and what abundance of
poison! How few are there that, either in writing or preaching, declare the
genuine gospel of Christ, in the simplicity and purity wherewith it is set
forth in the venerable records of our own Church! And how are we inclosed on
every side with those who, neither knowing the doctrines of our Church, nor
the Scriptures, nor the power of God, have found out to themselves
inventions wherewith they constantly corrupt others also!
3. I speak not now of those (prOtotokoi tou Satana_) first-born of Satan,
the Deists, Arians, or Socinians. These are too infamous among us to do any
great service to the cause of their master. But what shall we say of those
who are accounted the pillars of our Church, and champions of our faith;
who, indeed, betray that Church, and sap the very foundations of the faith
we are taught thereby?
4. But how invidious a thing it is to show this! Who is sufficient to bear
the weight of prejudice which must necessarily follow the very mention of
such a charge against men of so established a character? nay, and who have,
indeed, in many other respects, done great service to the Church of God? Yet
must every faithful Minister say, "`God forbid that I should accept any
man's person!' I dare not give any man flattering tithes, nor spare any that
corrupt the Gospel. `In so doing my Maker would soon take me away.'"
5. Let me, however, be as short as may be upon this head; and I will
instance only in two or three men of renown, who have endeavoured to sap the
very foundation of our Church, by attacking its fundamental, and, indeed,
the fundamental doctrine of all Reformed Churches; viz., justification by
faith alone.
One of these, and one of the highest station in our Church, hath written and
printed, before his death, several sermons, expressly to prove, that not
faith alone, but good works also, are necessary in order to justification.
The unpleasing task of quoting particular passages out of them is superseded
by the very title of them; which is this: "The Necessity of Regeneration,"
(which he at large proves to imply holiness both of heart and life,) "in
order to Justification." [Tillotson's Sermons, Vol. 1., &C.]
6. It may appear strange to some, that an angel of the Church of God, (as
the great Shepherd terms the overseers of it,) and one so highly esteemed
both in our own and many other nations, should coolly and calmly thus speak.
But O, what is he in comparison of the great Bishop Bull! Who shall be able
to stand, if this eminent scholar, Christian, and Prelate, in his youth
wrote and published to the world, and in his riper years defended, the
positions that follow ? --
"A man is said (_ex ergOn dikaioutai_) to be justified by works; because
good works are the condition, according to the divine appointment,
established in the gospel covenant, requisite and necessary to a man's
justification; that is, to his obtaining remission of sins through Christ."
BULLI Harm. Apost., p. 4.
A little after, being about to produce testimonies in proof of this
proposition, he says, "The first class of these shall be those who speak of
good works in a general sense, as the requisite and necessary condition of
justification." Then follow certain texts of Scripture; after which he adds,
"Who does not believe that in these scriptures there is an abundance of good
works required, which if a man do not perform, he is altogether excluded
from the hope of pardon, and remission of sins?" -- Ibid., p. 6.
Having introduced some other things, he adds, "Besides faith, there is no
one but may see that repentance is required as necessary to justification.
Now, repentance is not one work alone, but is, as it were, a collection of
many others: For in its compass the following works are comprehended: --
(1.) Sorrow on account of sin: (2.) Humiliation under the hand of God: (3.)
Hatred to sin: (4.) Confession of sin: (5.) Ardent supplication of the
divine mercy: (6.) The love of God: (7.) Ceasing from sin: (8.) Firm purpose
of new obedience: (9.) Restitution of ill-gotten goods: (10.) Forgiving our
neighbour his transgressions against us: (11.) Works of beneficence, or
alms-giving. How much these things avail to procure remission of sins from
God is sufficiently evident from Dan. 4:27; where the Prophet gives this
wholesome advice to Nebuchadnezzar, who was at that time cleaving to his
sins: `Redeem [The Bishop translates _PRQ_ -- peruk, with the Vulgate,
redeem, or buy off but the proper and literal meaning is, break off. A.C.]
your sins by alms-giving, and your iniquities by showing mercy to the
poor.'" -- Ibid., p. 10.
7. To instance in one point more: All the Liturgy of the Church is full of
petitions for that holiness without which, the Scripture everywhere
declares, no man shall see the Lord. And these are all summed up in those
comprehensive words which we are supposed to be so frequently repeating:
"Cleanse the thoughts of our hearts by the inspiration of thy Holy Spirit,
that we may perfectly love thee, and worthily magnify thy holy name." It is
evident that in the last clause of this petition, all outward holiness is
contained: Neither can it be carried to a greater height, or expressed in
stronger terms. And those words, "Cleanse the thoughts of our hearts,"
contain the negative branch of inward holiness; the height and depth of
which is purity of heart, by the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit. The
remaining words, "that we may perfectly love thee," contain the positive
part of holiness; seeing this love, which is the fulfilling of the law,
implies the whole mind that was in Christ.
8. But how does the general stream of writers and Preachers (let me be
excused the invidious task of instancing in particular persons) agree with
this doctrine? Indeed, not at all. Very few can we find who simply and
earnestly enforce it. But very many who write and preach as if Christian
holiness, or religion, were a purely negative thing; as if; not to curse or
swear, not to lie or slander, not to be a drunkard, a thief; or a
whoremonger, not to speak or do evil, was religion enough to entitle a man
to heaven! How many, if they go something further than this, describe it
only as an outward thing; as if it consisted chiefly, if not wholly, in
doing good, (as it is called,) and using the means of grace! Or, should they
go a little farther still, yet what do they add to this poor account of
religion? Why, perhaps, that a man should be orthodox in his opinions, and
have a zeal for the constitution in Church and state. And this is all: This
is all the religion they can allow, without degenerating into enthusiasm! So
true it is, that the faith of a devil, and the life of a Heathen, make up
what most men call a good Christian!
9. But why should we seek further witnesses of this? Are there not many
present here who are of the same opinion? who believe that a good moral man,
and a good Christian, mean the same thing? that a man need not trouble
himself any further, if he only practises as much Christianity as was
written over the Heathen Emperor's gate, -- " Do as thou wouldest be done
unto;" especially if he be not an infidel, or a heretic, but believes all
that the Bible and the Church say is true?
10. I would not be understood, as if I despised these things, as if I
undervalued right opinions, true morality, or a zealous regard for the
constitution we have received from our fathers. Yet what are these things,
being alone? What will they profit us in that day? What will it avail to
tell the Judge of all) "Lord, I was not as other men were; not unjust, not
an adulterer, not a liar, not an immoral man?" Yea, what will it avail, if
we have done all good, as well as done no harm, -- if we have given all our
goods to feed the poor, -- and have not charity? How shall we then look on
those who taught us to sleep on and take our rest, though "the love of the
Father was not in us?" or who, teaching us to seek salvation by works, cut
us off from receiving that faith freely, whereby alone the love of God could
have been shed abroad in our hearts?
To these miserable corrupters of the gospel of Christ, and the poison they
have spread abroad, is chiefly owing,
II. Secondly, that general corruption in practice as well as in doctrine.
There is hardly to be found (O tell it not in Gath, publish it not in the
streets of Askelon!) either the form of godliness, or the power! So is "the
faithful city become an harlot!"
1. With grief of heart I speak it, and not with joy, that scarcely is the
form of godliness seen among us. We are all indeed called to be saints, and
the very name of Christians means no less. But who has so much as the
appearance? Take any one you meet; take a second, a third, a fourth, or the
twentieth. Not one of them has even the appearance of a saint, any more than
of an angel. Observe his look, his air, his gesture! Does it breathe nothing
but God? Does it bespeak a temple of the Holy Ghost? Observe his
conversation; not an hour only, but day by day. Can you gather from any
outward sign, that God dwelleth in his heart? that this is an everlasting
spirit, who is going to God? Would you imagine that the blood of Christ was
shed for that soul, and had purchased everlasting salvation for it; and that
God was now waiting till that salvation should be wrought out with fear and
trembling?
2. Should it be said, "Why, what signifies the form of godliness?" we
readily answer, Nothing, if it be alone. But the absence of the form
signifies much. It infallibly proves the absence of the power. For though
the form may be without the power, yet the power cannot be without the form.
Outward religion may be where inward is not; but if there is none without,
there can be none within.
3. But it may be said, "We have public prayers both morning and evening in
all our Colleges." It is true; and it were to be wished that all the members
thereof; more especially the elder, those of note and character, would, by
constantly attending them, show how sensible they are of the invaluable
privilege. But have all who attend them the form of godliness? Before those
solemn addresses to God begin, does the behaviour of all who are present
show that they know before whom they stand? What impression appears to be
left on their minds when those holy offices are ended? And even during their
continuance, can it be reasonably inferred from the tenor of their outward
behaviour, that their hearts are earnestly fixed on Him who standeth in the
midst of them? I much fear, were a Heathen, who understood not our tongue,
to come into one of these our assemblies, he would suspect nothing less than
that we were pouring out our hearts before the Majesty of heaven and earth.
What then shall we say, (if indeed "God is not mocked,") but, "What a man
soweth, that also shall he reap?"
4. "On Sundays, however," say some, "it cannot be denied that we have the
form of godliness, having sermons preached both morning and afternoon, over
and above the morning and evening Service." But do we keep the rest of the
Sabbath-day holy? Is there no needless visiting upon it? no trifling, no
impertinence of conversation? Do neither you yourself do any unnecessary
work upon it, nor suffer others over whom you have any power, to break the
laws of God and man herein? If you do, even in this you have nothing whereof
to boast. But herein also you are guilty before God.
5. But if we have the form of godliness on one day in a week, is there not
on other days what is quite contrary thereto? Are not the best of our
conversing hours spent in foolish talking and jesting, which are not
convenient? nay, perhaps, in wanton talking too; such as modest ears could
not hear? Are there not many among us found to eat and drink with the
drunken? And if so, what marvel is it that our profaneness should also go up
into the heavens, and our oaths and curses into the ears of the Lord of
Sabaoth?
6. And even as to the hours assigned for study, are they generally spent to
any better purpose? Not if they are employed in reading (as is too common)
plays, novels, or idle tales, which naturally tend to increase our inbred
corruption, and heat the furnace of our unholy desires seven times hotter
than it was before? How little preferable is the laborious idleness of those
who spend day after day in gaming or diversions, vilely casting away that
time the value of which they cannot know, till they are passed through it
into eternity!
7. Know ye not then so much as this, you that are called moral men, that all
idleness is immorality; that there is no grosser dishonesty than sloth; that
every voluntary blockhead is a knave? He defrauds his benefactors, his
parents, and the world; and robs both God and his own soul. Yet how many of
these are among us! How many lazy drones, as if only fruges consumere nati!
"born to eat up the produce of the soil." How many whose ignorance is not
owing to incapacity, but to mere laziness! How few, (let it not seem
immodest that even such a one as I should touch on that tender point,) of
the vast number who have it in their power, are truly learned men Not to
speak of the other eastern tongues, who is there that can be said to
understand Hebrew? Might I not say, or even Greek? A little of Homer or
Xenophon we may still remember; but how few can readily read or understand
so much as a page of Clemens Alexandrinus, Chrysostom, or Ephrem Syrus? And
as to philosophy, (not to mention mathematics, or the abstruser branches of
it,) how few do we find who have laid the foundation, -- who are masters
even of logic; who thoroughly understand so much as the rules of
syllogizing; the very doctrine of the moods and figures! O what is so scarce
as learning, save religion!
8. And indeed learning will be seldom found without religion; for temporal
views, as experience shows, will very rarely suffice to carry one through
the labour required to be a thorough scholar. Can it then be dissembled,
that there is too often a defect in those to whom the care of youth is
entrusted? Is that solemn direction sufficiently considered, (Statut. p. 7,)
"Let the tutor diligently instruct those scholars committed to his care in
strict morality; and especially in the first principles of religion, and in
the articles of doctrine?"
And do they, to whom this important charge is given, labour diligently to
lay this good foundation? to fix true principles of religion in the minds of
youth entrusted with them by their lectures? to recommend the practice
thereof by the powerful and pleasing influence of their example? to enforce
this by frequent private advice, earnestly and strongly inculcated? to
observe the progress, and carefully inquire into the behaviour, of every one
of them? in a word, to watch over their souls as they that must give
account?
9. Suffer me, since I have begun to speak upon this head, to go a little
farther. Is there sufficient care taken that they should know and keep the
statutes which we are all engaged to observe? How then is it that they are
so notoriously broken every day? To instance only in a few:
It is appointed, as to divine offices and preaching, "That ALL shall
publicly attend: -- Graduates and scholars shall attend punctually, and
continue till all be finished with due reverence from the beginning to the
end." (P. 181.)
It is appointed, "That scholars of every rank shall abstain from all kinds
of play where money is contended for; such as cards, dice, and bowls; nor
shall they be present at public games of this nature." (P. 157.)
It is appointed, "That all (the sons of noblemen excepted) shall accustom
themselves to black or dark-coloured clothing; and that they shall keep at
the utmost distance from pomp and extravagance." (P. 157.)
It is appointed, "That scholars of every rank shall abstain from alehouses,
inns, taverns, and from every place within the city where wine, or any other
kind of liquor, is ordinarily sold." (P.164.)
10. It will be objected, perhaps, that "these are but little things." Nay,
but perjury is not a little thing; nor, consequently, the wilful breach of
any rule which we have solemnly sworn to observe. Surely those who speak
thus have forgotten those words: "Thou shalt pledge thy faith to observe all
the statutes of this University. So help thee God, and the holy Inspired
Gospels of Christ!" (P. 229.)
11. But is this oath sufficiently considered by those who take it; or any of
those prescribed by public authority? Is not this solemn act of religion,
the calling God to record on our souls, commonly treated as a slight thing?
in particular by those who swear by the living God, that "neither entreaties
nor reward, neither hatred nor friendship, neither hope nor fear, induce
them to give a testimony to any unworthy person?" (P. 88;) and by those who
swear, "I know this person to be meet and fit in morals and knowledge for
that high degree to which he is presented?" (P. 114.)
12. Yet one thing more. We have all testified before God, "that all and
every the Articles of our Church, as also the Book of Common Prayer, and the
ordaining of Bishops, Priests, and Deacons, are agreeable to the word of
God." And, in so doing, we have likewise testified, "that both the First and
the Second Book of Homilies doth contain godly and wholesome doctrine." But
upon what evidence have many of us declared this? Have we not affirmed the
thing we know not. If so, however true they may happen to be, we are found
false witnesses before God. Have the greater part of us ever used any means
to know whether these things are so or not? Have we ever, for one hour,
seriously considered the Articles to which we have subscribed? If not, how
shamefully do we elude the design of the very compilers, who compiled them
"to remove difference of opinion, and to establish unanimity in the true
religion!"
13. Have we half of us read over the Book of Common Prayer, and of ordaining
Bishops, Priests, and Deacons? If not, what is it we have so solemnly
confirmed? In plain terms, we cannot tell. And as to the two Books of
Homilies, it is well if a tenth part of those who have subscribed to them, I
will not say, had considered them before they did this, but if they have
even read them over to this day! Alas, my brethren! How shall we reconcile
these things even to common honesty, to plain heathen morality? So far are
those who do them, nay, and perhaps defend them too, from having even the
form of Christian godliness!
14. But, waving all these things, where is the power? Who are the living
witnesses of this? Who among us (let God witness with our hearts)
experimentally knows the force of inward holiness? Who feels in himself the
workings of the Spirit of Christ, drawing up his mind to high and heavenly
things? Who can witness, -- " The thoughts of my heart God hath cleansed by
the inspiration of his Holy Spirit?" Who knoweth that "peace of God which
passeth all understanding?" Who is he that "rejoiceth with joy unspeakable
and full of glory?" Whose "affections are set on things above, not on things
of the earth?" Whose "life is hid with Christ in God?" Who can say, "I am
crucified with Christ; yet I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me; and
the life that I now live in the body, I live by the faith of the Son of God,
who loved me, and gave himself for me?" In whose heart is the "love of God
shed abroad, by the Holy Ghost which is given unto him?"
15. Is not almost the very notion of this religion lost? Is there not a
gross overflowing ignorance of it? Nay, is it not utterly despised? Is it
not wholly set at nought, and trodden under foot? Were any one to witness
these things before God, would he not be accounted a madman, an enthusiast?
Am not I unto you a barbarian who speak thus? My brethren, my heart bleeds
for you. O that you would at length take knowledge, and understand that
these are the words of truth and soberness! O that you knew, at least in
this your day, the things that make for your peace!
16. I have been a messenger of heavy tidings this day. But the love of
Christ constraineth me; and to me it was the less grievous, because for you
it was safe. I desire not to accuse the children of my people. Therefore,
neither do I speak thus in the ears of them that sit on the wall; but to you
I endeavour to speak the truth in love, as a faithful Minister of Jesus
Christ. And I can now "call you to record this day, that I am pure from the
blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel
of God."
17. May the God of all grace, who is longsuffering, of tender mercy, and
repenteth him of the evil, fix these things in your hearts, and water the
seed he hath own with the dew of heaven! May he correct whatsoever he seeth
amiss in us! May he supply whatsoever is wanting! May he perfect that which
is according to his will; and so establish, strengthen, and settle us, that
this place may again be a faithful city to her Lord; yea, the praise of the
whole earth!
.

User: "vernono vernono@hereandthere"
Title: Re: True Christianity Defended	13 Dec 2007 09:32:59 AM

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjqhcr$nac$1@news.utelfla.com...
Carl: The source of cut and paste and no thought.
Carl: The thief.
.

User: "Carl"
Title: Re: True Christianity Defended	13 Dec 2007 12:16:03 PM

"vernono" <vernono@hereandthere> wrote in message
news:476150a8$0$31531$7836cce5@newsrazor.net...

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjqhcr$nac$1@news.utelfla.com...
Carl: The source of cut and paste and no thought.

Incorrect

Carl: The thief.

Slander
.

User: "vernono vernono@hereandthere"
Title: Re: True Christianity Defended	13 Dec 2007 01:09:24 PM

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjrst3$rah$1@news.utelfla.com...

"vernono" <vernono@hereandthere> wrote in message
news:476150a8$0$31531$7836cce5@newsrazor.net...

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjqhcr$nac$1@news.utelfla.com...
Carl: The source of cut and paste and no thought.

Incorrect

Proof every day.

Carl: The thief.

Slander

Just the truth.
Apparently doesn't know the meaning of thief.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: True Christianity Defended	13 Dec 2007 04:36:14 PM

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:09:24 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@hereandthere>
wrote:

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjrst3$rah$1@news.utelfla.com...

"vernono" <vernono@hereandthere> wrote in message
news:476150a8$0$31531$7836cce5@newsrazor.net...

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjqhcr$nac$1@news.utelfla.com...
Carl: The source of cut and paste and no thought.

Incorrect

Proof every day.

Carl: The thief.

Slander

Just the truth.
Apparently doesn't know the meaning of thief.

Apparently YOU do not know the meaning of thief.
You must STEAL something to be a thief.
Carl has not done that.
Look at the "fair use clause" of the copyright law.
Carl has stolen nothing.
Checker
.

User: "vernono vernono@hereandthere"
Title: Re: True Christianity Defended	13 Dec 2007 08:04:52 PM

<checker@flapper.net> wrote in message
news:ctc3m3lt9hlg4i9qk7tgded0g0f7ntchd7@4ax.com...

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:09:24 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@hereandthere>
wrote:

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjrst3$rah$1@news.utelfla.com...

"vernono" <vernono@hereandthere> wrote in message
news:476150a8$0$31531$7836cce5@newsrazor.net...

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjqhcr$nac$1@news.utelfla.com...
Carl: The source of cut and paste and no thought.

Incorrect

Proof every day.

Carl: The thief.

Slander

Just the truth.
Apparently doesn't know the meaning of thief.

Apparently YOU do not know the meaning of thief.
You must STEAL something to be a thief.

Carl has not done that.

Look at the "fair use clause" of the copyright law.

Carl has stolen nothing.

Checker

Over and over and over and over.
Carl could TRY to post his own comments or just stick with the bible.
He is riding on the coat tails of other "commentators" for his own
aggrandizement. Call it what you want.
IF (doubtful) he wishes to post scripture, use scripture.
Add, subtract = thief, troll
He ALWAYS makes certain to post HIS (not a biblical reference) WEB site
He's a troll and a thief.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: True Christianity Defended	13 Dec 2007 08:19:21 PM

On Dec 13, 9:04 pm, "vernono" <vernono@hereandthere> wrote:

And once again you present unsubstantiated accusations in a manner
consistent with the common definition of an internet troll. But since
you choose to engage in libelous disingenuousness, you render your
points moot and as such lose all credibility. You call me theif yet
you are unable and unwilling to provide any documented and/or
substantiated evidence. As such, what you are doing is engaging in ad
hominem with is indeed an act of desperation of someone who lacks
intellectual honesty. Keep in mind that if my posts bother you so much
you have the option to a) ignore them, b) not read them and/or c)
killfile my addy so none of my posts ever reach whatever computer you
are using. But you lack the fortitude to do any of those. You would
rather whine and moan over my posts whereas many other people post
sermons, articles, lessons from authors who take as the source of
those sermons, articles and lessons, the Bible.
Goodbye, vernon. Since you only wish to troll with your false
accusations and ad hominem in hopes I will respond in kind, I will
simply no longer consider you worthy of my valuable time.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
P.S. -- Oh btw, if you had bothered to actually visit my website and
my blog you'll find both contain many Christian resources as well as
other items that reflect my life and interests. But apparently you
don't care to find that out.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: True Christianity Defended	14 Dec 2007 06:59:37 AM

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:04:52 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@hereandthere>
wrote:

<checker@flapper.net> wrote in message
news:ctc3m3lt9hlg4i9qk7tgded0g0f7ntchd7@4ax.com...

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:09:24 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@hereandthere>
wrote:

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjrst3$rah$1@news.utelfla.com...

"vernono" <vernono@hereandthere> wrote in message
news:476150a8$0$31531$7836cce5@newsrazor.net...

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjqhcr$nac$1@news.utelfla.com...
Carl: The source of cut and paste and no thought.

Incorrect

Proof every day.

Carl: The thief.

Slander

Just the truth.
Apparently doesn't know the meaning of thief.

Over and over and over and over.

Not according to the Law. Not morally or ethically.
Only in your imagination.

Carl could TRY to post his own comments or just stick with the bible.
He is riding on the coat tails of other "commentators" for his own
aggrandizement.

Actually I believe he is using his posts for God's aggrandizement, not
his own. I have seen nothing that says "wonderful Carl" there.

Call it what you want.

Why not? You do?

IF (doubtful) he wishes to post scripture, use scripture.

What he posts is scriptural.

Add, subtract = thief, troll

He does neither.
He is neither, except in your imagination. So much for your
imagination.

He ALWAYS makes certain to post HIS (not a biblical reference) WEB site
He's a troll and a thief.

You are simply wrong.
Checker
.

User: "vernono vernono@hereandthere"
Title: Re: True Christianity Defended	14 Dec 2007 09:27:19 AM

<checker@flapper.net> wrote in message
news:gcv4m3h6smo69k82c7n8phu5pjnkbunl6g@4ax.com...

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:04:52 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@hereandthere>
wrote:

<checker@flapper.net> wrote in message
news:ctc3m3lt9hlg4i9qk7tgded0g0f7ntchd7@4ax.com...

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:09:24 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@hereandthere>
wrote:

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjrst3$rah$1@news.utelfla.com...

"vernono" <vernono@hereandthere> wrote in message
news:476150a8$0$31531$7836cce5@newsrazor.net...

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjqhcr$nac$1@news.utelfla.com...
Carl: The source of cut and paste and no thought.

Incorrect

Proof every day.

Carl: The thief.

Slander

Just the truth.
Apparently doesn't know the meaning of thief.

Over and over and over and over.

Not according to the Law. Not morally or ethically.
Only in your imagination.

Carl could TRY to post his own comments or just stick with the bible.
He is riding on the coat tails of other "commentators" for his own
aggrandizement.

Actually I believe he is using his posts for God's aggrandizement, not
his own. I have seen nothing that says "wonderful Carl" there.

Call it what you want.

Why not? You do?

IF (doubtful) he wishes to post scripture, use scripture.

What he posts is scriptural.

What he posts is writings or sermons from other people, almost never
scripture or his own ideas for discussion.
The authors are NOT infallible. They are just commentators who use more
words that God does to state an objective.

Add, subtract = thief, troll

He does neither.
He is neither, except in your imagination. So much for your
imagination.

He ALWAYS makes certain to post HIS (not a biblical reference) WEB site
He's a troll and a thief.

You are simply wrong.

Checker

User: ""
Title: Re: True Christianity Defended	14 Dec 2007 11:46:34 AM

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:27:19 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@hereandthere>
wrote:

<checker@flapper.net> wrote in message
news:gcv4m3h6smo69k82c7n8phu5pjnkbunl6g@4ax.com...

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:04:52 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@hereandthere>
wrote:

<checker@flapper.net> wrote in message
news:ctc3m3lt9hlg4i9qk7tgded0g0f7ntchd7@4ax.com...

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:09:24 -0700, "vernono" <vernono@hereandthere>
wrote:

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjrst3$rah$1@news.utelfla.com...

"vernono" <vernono@hereandthere> wrote in message
news:476150a8$0$31531$7836cce5@newsrazor.net...

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote in message
news:fjqhcr$nac$1@news.utelfla.com...
Carl: The source of cut and paste and no thought.

Incorrect

Proof every day.

Carl: The thief.

Slander

Just the truth.
Apparently doesn't know the meaning of thief.

Over and over and over and over.

Not according to the Law. Not morally or ethically.
Only in your imagination.

Carl could TRY to post his own comments or just stick with the bible.
He is riding on the coat tails of other "commentators" for his own
aggrandizement.

Actually I believe he is using his posts for God's aggrandizement, not
his own. I have seen nothing that says "wonderful Carl" there.

Call it what you want.

Why not? You do?

IF (doubtful) he wishes to post scripture, use scripture.

What he posts is scriptural.

What he posts is writings or sermons from other people, almost never
scripture or his own ideas for discussion.

True. However he picks his posts carefully it appears. They are
Biblically accurate even though they do NOT originate with him.

The authors are NOT infallible. They are just commentators who use more
words that God does to state an objective.

As do you, and as does every single preacher I have ever met. NO
preacher I have ever met stands in his pulpit and reads scripture,
gives no "explanation," and ends it there.
In the Name of Jesus,
Checker

Add, subtract = thief, troll

He does neither.
He is neither, except in your imagination. So much for your
imagination.

He ALWAYS makes certain to post HIS (not a biblical reference) WEB site
He's a troll and a thief.

You are simply wrong.

Checker

User: "vernono vernono@hereandthere"
Title: Re: True Christianity Defended	14 Dec 2007 11:58:44 AM

<checker@flapper.net> wrote in message
news:18g5m3dqt97fmemiroe6s62skrlqcigpkm@4ax.com...