Typical Evangelical salvation by smart good deeds answered...



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Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "old man joe"
Date: 08 Jan 2008 04:24:17 AM
Object: Typical Evangelical salvation by smart good deeds answered...

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets,
and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have
gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens
under her wings, and ye would not!

"O Jerusalem." In other words, He never pronounces a judgement without
offering grace. Grace always precedes judgement; "Jerusalem, thou that
killest the prophets," present linear aktionsart, always killing them;
"and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have
gathered thy children." "Would I" declares divine sovereignty. He
would have gathered them; "together, even as a hen gathereth her
chickens under her wings, and ye would not." Notice these two phrases:
"How often I would", expressing divine will; "Ye would not" Negative
volition locks God out.

Note the words, "and you would" not. This is the Greek word thelema
which means 'will.' God does not tamper with human will, He let's man
decide whether he will believe/accept or reject His grace.

If God in eternity past had arbitrarily condemned these people who
rejected Him to eternal condemnation, why then did He offer them
salvation?

because you misunderstand free will and grace, you and apply
unBiblical meanings to both.
only Adam and Eve ever had free will. from the fall til this day
man is ' held ' captive by his Satan's will ( 1 Tim. 2:26 ) ; he "
lies in the lap of the evil one " ( 1 Joh. 5:19 ) he is driven to
fulfill the lusts of his flesh by Satan ( Eph. 2:1-3 ) ; he does not
come to the Savior of his own ' free ' will ( Joh. 3:19,20 ) since
salvation is not by the ' will ' of man ( Joh. 1:12,13 ) ( a verse
the Fundamentalists stay far away from )
furthermore, if a person must do something for God first in order to
merit being graced by God, then salvation is based on the will of man
who " does not come to the Light " Joh. 3:19,20....
the Fundamentalists position seeks only the glory of man for
electing himself unto eternal life. he professes a Savior who can not
save unless man allows Him to shed His grace on those who contributed
to their own salvation by some sort of fancy positive volition towards
Christ.
if this is your gospel of a Savior who failed at Calvary you should
be wondering how it is that dead human spirits initiate life in
themselves and then go flocking to Jesus all the while man is said to
be among the " none who seek for God " ( Ro. 3:11 )
there isn't a verse in all of Scripture which implies salvation is
by the will of man, but rather, there are copious verses and examples
of salvation being all of grace... since election is unconditional...
such as in Luke 4:14-30.
to mix man's will with God's grace as though the gospel which saves
requires that something come from man first in order to prompt God to
grace him is the Gnostic gospel of works, and is countered by Acts
13:48
" as many as had been appointed to eternal life, believed "

the statement that " He never pronounces a judgement without
offering grace. Grace always precedes judgement " is an assessment
based on the salvation by works gospel... it assumes God " offers "
grace when all the while the is no such statement in the Bible that
God " offers " grace. grace is given the elect, not " offered " as in
the take it or leave it gospel so dearly held by the lost.
( 1 Cor. 1;14 )
God told Noah beforehand He would destroy mankind with the flood.
no grace was offered preceding the flood to these. Noah " found "
grace since he was elect... saved by grace apart from works as all of
the elect are.
in the minds of Evangelicals God is a doormat who's power is
secondary to man since these believe God can not save unless and until
man gives Him permission.
your explanation of the Greek word " thelema " is erroneous as well.
this is because you trust in good works to save... have a subservient
god and a Savior who failed at Calvary unless man allows His sacrifice
to be effectual... man's " thelema " ( determinate will ) is not to be
saved by his own non-existant free will... that's why he must be "
dragged " to Jesus. ( Jn. 6:44 translated " draw " )
.


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