| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bible John" |
| Date: |
22 Oct 2005 07:51:49 AM |
| Object: |
Verses that backup the Trinity Doctrine |
MY PREDICTION-Winter nor Bob will fight me verse by verse here.
# Plurality of God in the Old Testament
1. Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image,
according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea
and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the
earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'"
1. Angels do not create.
2. We are not made in the image of angels
3. there is no place in the OT where a leader refers to himself
with the term "us."
2. Gen. 3:22, "Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become
like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his
hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.'"
3. Gen. 11:7, "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language,
that they may not understand one another¹s speech."
4. Gen. 19:24, "Then the Lord [YHWH] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah
brimstone and fire from the Lord [YHWH] out of heaven."
5. Psalm 45:6-7, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter
of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom. 7Thou hast loved
righteousness, and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Thy God, has
anointed Thee."
1. This is quoted in Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He [God] says,
³Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is
the scepter of His kingdom."
2. The Jehovah's Witness Bible has it translated as "God is thy
Throne forever and ever..." But, God would not be a throne for anyone.
A king sits upon a throne and God sits on His throne, not anyone else on
God as a throne.
6. Isaiah 6:8, "Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom
shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send
me!'"
7. Isaiah 48:16, "Come near to Me [God], listen to this: From the
first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was
there. And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit.²
8. Amos 4:10-11, ³I sent a plague among you after the manner of
Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured
horses, And I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; Yet
you have not returned to Me,² declares the Lord [YHWH]. 11³I overthrew
you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, And you were like a firebrand
snatched from a blaze; Yet you have not returned to Me,² declares the
Lord."
# Plurality of God in the New Testament
1. Matt. 3:16-17, "And after being baptized, Jesus went up
immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he
saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, 17and
behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, ³This is My beloved Son, in
whom I am well-pleased.²
2. Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy
Spirit,"
1. Note that there is one name and three persons.
3. 1 Cor. 12:4-6, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same
Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And
there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in
all persons."
1. "Lord" here is probably Jesus. See next verse.
4. 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of
God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
5. Eph. 4:4-6, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you
were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one
baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and
in all."
6. 1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by
the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and
be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest
measure."
7. Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most
holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21keep yourselves in the love of
God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal
life."
--
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
John 14:6 Jesus answered, ³I am the way and
the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father
except through me.
AIM-Crucifyself03
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Verses that backup the Trinity Doctrine |
22 Oct 2005 10:23:13 AM |
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Bible John <john.doggett@x-files.gov> spake thusly and wrote:
MY PREDICTION-Winter nor Bob will fight me verse by verse here.
# Plurality of God in the Old Testament
1. Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image,
according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea
and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the
earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'"
1. Angels do not create.
2. We are not made in the image of angels
See my reply also as:
"False-christian scum John Wolf admits his polytheism"
It is certainly good when some false-christian scum like John
Wolf so clearly admits his polytheism!
First of all, the Bible does say that men are in the image of
angels, consider this:
Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for
thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Then we remember when John Wolf's polytheistic spiritual brethren
in Sodom thought that angels were men.
Genesis 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where
are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto
us, that we may know them.
Here we have one of the favorite verses of the trinity/antichrist
preachers like the bumbling John Wolf, except if we keep reading
just one verse further; we see that verse 26 couldn't have
possibly been referring to a discussion with other gods. God was
talking with the angels.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the
sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over
all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon
the earth.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image
of God created he him; male and female created he them.
See in verse 27; it says "he" created, not "they" created. But as
if that wasn't enough proof, we see in this next verse that God
clearly and plainly declares that He did the creating, and I
quote "by myself"
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that
formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all
[things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth
abroad the earth by myself;
Isaiah 44:25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh
diviners mad; that turneth wise [men] backward, and maketh their
knowledge foolish;
God does not seem overly impressed with men's pet theories, does
He?
Isaiah 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there
is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known
me:
Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and
from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD,
and [there is] none else.
Now I have to submit that if there had been any other co-equal,
co-eternal 1/3 gods around that Jehovah Saviour would have been
aware of them, notice that He states, and I quote "there is none
beside me".
Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my
mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me
every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isaiah 45:23 and Philippians 2:10 & 11 must be referring to the
same person, whom all knees will eventually bow to.
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under
the earth;
Philippians 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that
Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Now if you're having any trouble at all with thinking that verse
11 speaks of two gods, just take the comma out (the original
language didn't have 'em)...and notice the consistent meaning, if
we read the verse to mean that Jesus Christ is Lord of the glory
of God the Father.
If that seems to be stretching things a bit, notice this next
verse:
I Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew:
for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord
of glory.
See, it says that Jesus is the Lord of glory, but we see in this
next verse that Jehovah Saviour states that He will not share His
glory with any other....sooo we see that Jehovah Saviour allowed
Himself to be crucified.
Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, [even] for mine own sake, will I
do [it]: for how should [my name] be polluted? and I will not
give my glory unto another.
And if anyone with even the slightest bit of sincerity has any
lingering doubt, Jesus said it about as plain as it could be
said.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the
Father?
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another
Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive,
because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him;
for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Jesus identifies Himself as the Spirit of Truth.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so
be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not
the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Notice how the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ is the same
Spirit. That same Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, or the Holy
Ghost.
God is a Spirit.
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must
worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
God is holy.
I Samuel 2:2 [There is] none holy as the LORD: for [there is]
none beside thee: neither [is there] any rock like our God.
God is a "Holy Spirit". Jesus is the "Spirit of truth"
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus was "dwelling with them" and promised to be "in them".
John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot
receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye
know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
The "comforter" is the "Spirit of Christ"
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
The "Spirit of Christ" is the "Holy Spirit" is the "Spirit of
Truth"
John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the
Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and
bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto
you.
The Spirit of God visited His creation robed in flesh as the
"Son".
I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of
godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the
Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on
in the world, received up into glory.
The fullness of God is in Jesus Christ
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead
bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of
all principality and power:
Jesus IS the "everlasting Father".
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall
be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting
Father, The Prince of Peace.
Those like John Wolf and other deceivers who believe that Jesus
is a "separate person" from the "Father" don't really know Jesus
at all.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the
Father?
These Satanic scum like John Wolf are not teaching the religion
of the Bible.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Verses that backup the Trinity Doctrine |
22 Oct 2005 03:12:12 PM |
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On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:23:13 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> spake thusly:
Bible John <john.doggett@x-files.gov> spake thusly and wrote:
MY PREDICTION-Winter nor Bob will fight me verse by verse here.
# Plurality of God in the Old Testament
1. Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image,
according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea
and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the
earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'"
1. Angels do not create.
2. We are not made in the image of angels
See my reply also as:
"False-christian scum John Wolf admits his polytheism"
It is certainly good when some false-christian scum like John
Wolf so clearly admits his polytheism!
You are a foolish man, who worships himself.
Folks, just FYI, I did a Google search (just a generic
search of the web and not a news group search) for
the following...
+false +christian +scum "steve winter"
I got 633 hits. That should tell us all something about
who Steve Winter is.
Here's some info on Steve that I ran across, so that
you may all be warned...
http://www.killfile.org/dungeon/why/winter.html
http://www.prime.org/legal/
http://www.impsmail.org/spssold.html
http://adamsemail.net/winter/winfaq.html
http://www.prime.org/cwatch.htm
http://www.impsmail.org/
http://www.impsmail.org/spssold.html
http://www.skepticfiles.org/rich/winter.htm
First of all, the Bible does say that men are in the image of
angels, consider this:
Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for
thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
That says nothing about men being made in the image
of angels. It says that angels have shown themselves
in the form of men, from time to time.
And what you need to do, is to quit inventing arguments
that people aren't making, because you're incapable of
arguing against what they actually are saying! (:
--
Pastor Dave
1st Century Church of Christ
It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give you as a Light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.
- Israel 49:6
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Verses that backup the Trinity Doctrine |
26 Oct 2005 01:09:40 PM |
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I agree, we aren't made in their image, but Rev.22:8-9 does have something
interesting to say about how we are connected with them.
"Pastor Dave" <1news-group-mail1@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:oa5ll1hofdj8f6es85c8ake9troj632bnv@4ax.com...
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:23:13 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> spake thusly:
Bible John <john.doggett@x-files.gov> spake thusly and wrote:
MY PREDICTION-Winter nor Bob will fight me verse by verse here.
# Plurality of God in the Old Testament
1. Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image,
according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea
and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the
earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'"
1. Angels do not create.
2. We are not made in the image of angels
See my reply also as:
"False-christian scum John Wolf admits his polytheism"
It is certainly good when some false-christian scum like John
Wolf so clearly admits his polytheism!
You are a foolish man, who worships himself.
Folks, just FYI, I did a Google search (just a generic
search of the web and not a news group search) for
the following...
+false +christian +scum "steve winter"
I got 633 hits. That should tell us all something about
who Steve Winter is.
Here's some info on Steve that I ran across, so that
you may all be warned...
http://www.killfile.org/dungeon/why/winter.html
http://www.prime.org/legal/
http://www.impsmail.org/spssold.html
http://adamsemail.net/winter/winfaq.html
http://www.prime.org/cwatch.htm
http://www.impsmail.org/
http://www.impsmail.org/spssold.html
http://www.skepticfiles.org/rich/winter.htm
First of all, the Bible does say that men are in the image of
angels, consider this:
Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for
thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
That says nothing about men being made in the image
of angels. It says that angels have shown themselves
in the form of men, from time to time.
And what you need to do, is to quit inventing arguments
that people aren't making, because you're incapable of
arguing against what they actually are saying! (:
--
Pastor Dave
1st Century Church of Christ
It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give you as a Light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.
- Israel 49:6
.
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Verses that backup the Trinity Doctrine |
22 Oct 2005 07:56:46 PM |
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Pastor Dave <1news-group-mail1@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> spake
thusly and wrote:
Here's some info on Steve that I ran across, so that
you may all be warned...
Well, the filthy low life false-christian scum Dave Raymond has
just crossed the line by publishing malicious libel. It will be
saved as evidence.
It is interesting that this low life scum Dave Raymond can't
begin to defend the stupid garbage he believes against a real
Bible preacher so he resorts to harassment and malicious libel.
I have shown him to be a fool, a liar and a devil repeatedly and
he says that I am "running from him".
Again, the best defense against filth like Dave Raymond is to
know the Word of God for yourself so let's have another Bible
study.
Salvation. All churches claim to have it, but if we look at what
they are teaching we see that many of them have starkly different
requirements for salvation. Can two groups of people saying
opposite things both be right? If two groups are teaching
opposite things then at least one and possibly both of them are
wrong. What is a person to do to secure true Biblical
salvation?
I believe that the safest path would be to simply obey what the
Apostles preached and practiced, to obey the Bible.
Now I know the devil has a lot of his PR folks like Dave Raymond
teaching that the Bible is so complicated that you cannot know it
so you might as well not try. If you fall for that then he
gotcha!
Isaiah 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it
shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass
over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though
fools, shall not err therein.
God did not give his Word to confuse or alienate people. He gave
it to show us the way and give us true light and understanding.
Psalms 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light
unto my path.
If we want true salvation then we must look at what was taught by
Jesus Christ, then preached upon His authority by Peter, and then
practiced by the apostles consistently. If we do that then we see
two essential elements that make up the Christian new birth.
These are things that Satan's ministers like Dave Raymond want
you to ignore.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God.
Those essential elements are: WATER and SPIRIT. We should take
note that a grown man was told by God manifest in the flesh that
he had to be born of water and that he had to be born of the
Spirit.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of
eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
I believe it is important that we remember who was being
addressed and why by Jesus. Jesus told a grown man that he still
needed to be born of water and of Spirit. We who are
"Apostolic" or in other words teach what the Apostles taught know
that the "birth of water" is Jesus Name water baptism.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
The devil's PR scum like Dave Raymond who fight against the
importance of Jesus Name baptism are not being honest with you or
themselves.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned.
Yet even with that verse we still have the devil's crowd and scum
like Dave Raymond deceiving souls into a comfortable disobedience
of the Bible. Look at that verse. Is it telling you to do one
thing or two things? I will give you a hint, please carefully
note God's choice of words when he said the word "and".
Let me try to really break this down. If mama sends you to go
to the store and says to buy eggs and milk does that mean that
she only wants eggs?
We know that Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of God. Why
reject what Peter did with those keys. I have actually had some
of the more ignorant of the devil's PR guys try to teach people
that Peter disobeyed Jesus. He said something like, "Well I will
take Jesus's words over Peter's any day." as he was trying to
justify his defiance of the Bible. The devil sure is fishing
for fools in this hour.
If we can't trust the Apostles we have a big problem. Just who
do the devil's PR guys think it was that kept track of what Jesus
said? Do they really think people are stupid enough to believe
that Jesus just penned in the red words Himself?
Speaking of the devil's servants, I feel I should point out
something here. Note that the Word of God does not teach
tolerance towards low life ministers of Satan like Dave Raymond.
2 Cor 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off
occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they
glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming
themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel
of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be
transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be
according to their works.
Notice also what role that Satan's crew like Dave Raymond will
try to play. They will pretend to be teaching righteousness.
Let's get back to talking about Peter and Jesus.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and
upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell
shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in
heaven.
How can the devil's servants like Dave Raymond figure that people
will be so stupid that they think they can somehow reject Peter's
teachings because their modern Satanic preacher knows Jesus
better? Satan's trash like Dave Raymond are really fishing for
fools these days.
Anyway, back to our topic of salvation. Peter preached the
"Apostolic" salvation on the Day of Pentecost and the Apostles
adhered to it from then on. That is where we get the concept
"Apostolic Pentecostal". It is really very simple. Those who
are preaching the Pentecostal message that the Apostles preached
are ta da, "Apostolic Pentecostal". I know there are liars who
claim to be who aren't preaching the original message but why
would we be surprised that Satan's crew would lie? Is he not the
father of it? Jesus said to some people:
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your
father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and
abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he
speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the
father of it.
So we don't need to be surprised when the devil's servants lie,
OK?
Back to our salvation topic. We have established that one can't
reject Peter without rejecting the one who gave Peter the keys to
the kingdom of heaven. So let's have a look at what Peter
taught.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both
Lord and Christ.
37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart,
and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and
brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one
of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and
ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all
that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
How can someone in their wildest imagination think that they are
among the "called of God" when they reject the Acts 2:38
salvation that Peter preached on the authority of the Lord Jesus
Christ?
Let me also point out something else here. We see that baptism
is to be done in Jesus Name. Monotheists have no problem with
that, but Satan's polytheistic PR guys like Dave Raymond really
stumble on that and so often expose themselves that they truly
are polytheistic and really are teaching three god squad members.
Something else to consider is that when people receive the Holy
Ghost, they speak with other tongues.
I know a lot of people fight against this because the devil's PR
guys have found that the best way to keep people from seeking the
baptism of the Holy Ghost is to convince them they already have
it and then just hold them by their pride. But why would someone
desiring and claiming a true Biblical experience be so adamantly
against such a basic Bible principle.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began
to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy
Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied
I have heard the devil's PR guys teaching that Paul didn't
believe in tongues, but Paul said:
1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more
than ye all:
There are examples in the Bible where people received the Holy
Ghost before they were baptised in Jesus Name. There are also
other examples where people were baptised in Jesus Name before
they received the Holy Ghost.
Looking back, Jesus did not say that the order of the birth of
water and birth of spirit was important.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God.
Whenever either ingredient of the Christian New Birth was
missing, the apostles IMMEDIATELY added the missing one. If a
person was baptized in Jesus Name then the Apostles prayed for
them to receive the Holy Spirit. (that also proves that people
don't automatically receive the Holy Ghost when they "believe" as
some of Satan's PR guys teach. When people received the Holy
Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, the Apostles
immediately baptized them in Jesus Name.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things
concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they
were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized,
he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles
and signs which were done.
14 ¶ Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter
and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they
might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were
baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the
Holy Ghost.
Note how they had been baptized.
Acts 10:44 ¶ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost
fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished,
as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was
poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then
answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,
which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
So how did the Apostles know that Gentiles had received the same
Holy Ghost they had? Now think about all this. Why would
anyone who really loved God and the Bible fight so hard against
basic Bible doctrines? Well, it is because they have become
quite comfortable listening to Satan's sugar coated lies and
Satan just uses their pride like strings to play with them like
puppets.
Those who had even been baptised personally by John the Baptist
were re-baptised in Jesus name for the remission of their sins.
John's baptism was only for a temporary period of time. Jesus
Name baptism does remit sins by the POWER of the shed blood of
God.
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at
Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to
Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye
believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard
whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And
they said, Unto John’s baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of
repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on
him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the
Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost
came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.
So with that verse 2 up there, how are Satan's PR guys still
convincing people that they automatically receive the Holy Ghost
when they first "believe"? Hell is going to have a big bunch of
really embarrassed people, eh?
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and
wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
How does a person have their sins washed away? Clearly it is by
being baptized in Jesus Name which is the METHOD whereby one
calls on the Name of the Lord. That is the reason that
trinitarians will all die in their sins because they reject Jesus
Name water baptism.
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are
risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who
hath raised him from the dead.
Note the essentiality of both WATER and SPIRIT:
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so
be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not
the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Notice here that the Bible speaks of the Spirit of God and the
Spirit of Christ as EXACTLY the same Spirit.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned.
How could Jesus have been more clear regarding the essentiality
of Jesus Name baptism? False-christians are simply not being
honest with themselves.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only,
deceiving your own selves.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is
born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Remember here that Jesus was telling a grown man what he STILL
needed to do in order to be saved. The grown man still had to
be reborn of WATER and of the SPIRIT.
This is totally consistent with the plan of salvation that the
"man with the keys to the kingdom" preached on the birthday of
the New Testament Church.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and
upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell
shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in
heaven.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and
to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God
shall call.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort,
saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
and the same day there were added [unto them] about three
thousand souls.
Here is an example where the re-birth of WATER preceded the
re-birth of SPIRIT
Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard
that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them
Peter and John:
Acts 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that
they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they
were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 8:17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received
the Holy Ghost.
Here is one where the re-birth of SPIRIT preceded the re-birth of
WATER:
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were
astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the
Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify
God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be
baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of
the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Another here where the re-birth of the WATER preceded re-birth of
SPIRIT.
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at
Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to
Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost
since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as
heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized?
And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism
of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name
of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy
Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
The apostles made sure that folks had been re-born both of the
WATER and re-born of the SPIRIT, the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation
that has always been adhered to by true Christianity.
2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us,
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty
angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the
presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at
the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end
be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias
saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Scum like Dave Raymond were counted as "non-believers" by the
Apostles.
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into
Christ have put on Christ.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Verses that backup the Trinity Doctrine |
23 Oct 2005 02:08:04 PM |
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On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:56:46 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> spake thusly:
Here's some info on Steve that I ran across, so that
you may all be warned...
Well, the filthy low life false-christian scum Dave Raymond has
just crossed the line by publishing malicious libel. It will be
saved as evidence.
Go for it. It is information that is publicly available.
Let me break this down for you.
Showing information that's already out there, is not libel.
And people don't have to defend themselves against libel.
You have to prove that someone did libel you, by first
proving that the information originated with them and then
by proving that it isn't true, because if it is true, then
it's not libel.
It is interesting that this low life scum Dave Raymond can't
begin to defend the stupid garbage he believes against a real
Bible preacher so he resorts to harassment and malicious libel.
I have shown him to be a fool, a liar and a devil repeatedly and
he says that I am "running from him".
Again, the best defense against filth like Dave Raymond is to
know the Word of God for yourself so let's have another Bible
study.
Salvation.
Once again, Steve claims I can't defend my statements
and here he is, once again avoiding the issue of the
Trinity. That's the subject here, Steve. The Trinity and
you accepting the challenge to debate me one on one.
So pasting in a sermon on salvation is not going to cut it.
And pasting in a sermon on baptism is not going to cut it.
You are running Steve.
--
Pastor Dave
1st Century Church of Christ
The "end timers" believe in a physical kingdom here on earth
and think that death being conquered is talking about our
physical death. I have a question then, using the two verses
that they always quote and knowing that the Bible doesn't
contradict itself...
"There will not be an infant, nor an old man that has not
filled his days. For the child will die a hundred years old;
but the sinner who is a hundred years old will be despised."
- Isaiah 65:20
"And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there
will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will
there be any more pain; for the first things passed away."
- Revelation 21:4
So which is it? Will the child die 100 years old? Or will
there be no more death? One or the other is true, but both
can't be true. So either they are taking symbolism literally
and misunderstanding the verses, or the Bible contradicts
itself. I know which one I believe. :)
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: False-christian scum John Wolf admits his polytheism |
22 Oct 2005 10:22:45 AM |
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Bible John <john.doggett@x-files.gov> spake thusly and wrote:
MY PREDICTION-Winter nor Bob will fight me verse by verse here.
# Plurality of God in the Old Testament
1. Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image,
according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea
and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the
earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'"
1. Angels do not create.
2. We are not made in the image of angels
See my reply as:
"False-christian scum John Wolf admits his polytheism"
It is certainly good when some false-christian scum like John
Wolf so clearly admits his polytheism!
First of all, the Bible does say that men are in the image of
angels, consider this:
Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for
thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Then we remember when John Wolf's polytheistic spiritual brethren
in Sodom thought that angels were men.
Genesis 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where
are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto
us, that we may know them.
Here we have one of the favorite verses of the trinity/antichrist
preachers like the bumbling John Wolf, except if we keep reading
just one verse further; we see that verse 26 couldn't have
possibly been referring to a discussion with other gods. God was
talking with the angels.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the
sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over
all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon
the earth.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image
of God created he him; male and female created he them.
See in verse 27; it says "he" created, not "they" created. But as
if that wasn't enough proof, we see in this next verse that God
clearly and plainly declares that He did the creating, and I
quote "by myself"
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that
formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all
[things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth
abroad the earth by myself;
Isaiah 44:25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh
diviners mad; that turneth wise [men] backward, and maketh their
knowledge foolish;
God does not seem overly impressed with men's pet theories, does
He?
Isaiah 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there
is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known
me:
Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and
from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD,
and [there is] none else.
Now I have to submit that if there had been any other co-equal,
co-eternal 1/3 gods around that Jehovah Saviour would have been
aware of them, notice that He states, and I quote "there is none
beside me".
Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my
mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me
every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isaiah 45:23 and Philippians 2:10 & 11 must be referring to the
same person, whom all knees will eventually bow to.
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under
the earth;
Philippians 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that
Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Now if you're having any trouble at all with thinking that verse
11 speaks of two gods, just take the comma out (the original
language didn't have 'em)...and notice the consistent meaning, if
we read the verse to mean that Jesus Christ is Lord of the glory
of God the Father.
If that seems to be stretching things a bit, notice this next
verse:
I Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew:
for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord
of glory.
See, it says that Jesus is the Lord of glory, but we see in this
next verse that Jehovah Saviour states that He will not share His
glory with any other....sooo we see that Jehovah Saviour allowed
Himself to be crucified.
Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, [even] for mine own sake, will I
do [it]: for how should [my name] be polluted? and I will not
give my glory unto another.
And if anyone with even the slightest bit of sincerity has any
lingering doubt, Jesus said it about as plain as it could be
said.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the
Father?
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another
Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive,
because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him;
for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Jesus identifies Himself as the Spirit of Truth.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so
be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not
the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Notice how the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ is the same
Spirit. That same Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, or the Holy
Ghost.
God is a Spirit.
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must
worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
God is holy.
I Samuel 2:2 [There is] none holy as the LORD: for [there is]
none beside thee: neither [is there] any rock like our God.
God is a "Holy Spirit". Jesus is the "Spirit of truth"
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus was "dwelling with them" and promised to be "in them".
John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot
receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye
know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
The "comforter" is the "Spirit of Christ"
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
The "Spirit of Christ" is the "Holy Spirit" is the "Spirit of
Truth"
John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the
Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and
bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto
you.
The Spirit of God visited His creation robed in flesh as the
"Son".
I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of
godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the
Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on
in the world, received up into glory.
The fullness of God is in Jesus Christ
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead
bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of
all principality and power:
Jesus IS the "everlasting Father".
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall
be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting
Father, The Prince of Peace.
Those like John Wolf and other deceivers who believe that Jesus
is a "separate person" from the "Father" don't really know Jesus
at all.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the
Father?
These Satanic scum like John Wolf are not teaching the religion
of the Bible.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
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| User: "Bible John" |
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| Title: Re: False-christian scum John Wolf admits his polytheism |
22 Oct 2005 06:54:09 PM |
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In article <dqlkl1p0lttjidt4kcnh6bkb7he6etn5a1@4ax.com>,
Pastor Steve Winter <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote:
Those like John Wolf and other deceivers who believe that Jesus
is a "separate person" from the "Father" don't really know Jesus
at all.
Winter you devil!!
John
--
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and
the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father
except through me.
AIM-Crucifyself03
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: False-christian scum John Wolf admits his polytheism |
22 Oct 2005 08:05:02 PM |
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john w <jw<no>@yow.how> spake thusly and wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:22:45 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote:
Bible John <john.doggett@x-files.gov> spake thusly and wrote:
MY PREDICTION-Winter nor Bob will fight me verse by verse here.
# Plurality of God in the Old Testament
1. Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image,
according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea
and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the
earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'"
1. Angels do not create.
2. We are not made in the image of angels
See my reply as:
"False-christian scum John Wolf admits his polytheism"
It is certainly good when some false-christian scum like John
Wolf so clearly admits his polytheism!
You are a liar, Stevie!
I have been following BJ's writing for some time now, and I have NEVER
seen him use the word "polytheist" to label his beliefs.
You ignorant Satanic nutter Weatherly! When the false-christian
scum John Wolf posts a twisted study that will supposedly prove"
"Plurality of God in the Old Testament", then the scum is
definitely polytheistic.
It is interesting the level of scum that would try to defend a
devil like John Wolf!
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Verses that backup the Trinity Doctrine |
22 Oct 2005 08:05:22 PM |
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On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 05:51:49 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:
MY PREDICTION-Winter nor Bob will fight me verse by verse here.
# Plurality of God in the Old Testament
1. Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image,
according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea
and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the
earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'"
1. Angels do not create.
2. We are not made in the image of angels
3. there is no place in the OT where a leader refers to himself
with the term "us."
2. Gen. 3:22, "Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become
like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his
hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.'"
3. Gen. 11:7, "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language,
that they may not understand one another¹s speech."
The plural is used for the singular frequently in the Bible. For
example, in Genesis 1:1 elohim and shamayim are plural. In verse two
panim and mayim are also plural. Other examples, off the top of my
head, are the "mountains" of Arat and the "cities" of Sodom later in
Genesis.
Then there is the plural of majesty as in "We the Queen" (Genesis
1:26) (see Illustrations of Bible Idioms, Young's Analytical
Concordance to the Bible.
Then there is the figure of speech Hendiadys (Two for One) where two
things are said while one thing is meant. Or, Heterosis (Change of
Accidence).
Then there is that fact that chapter one speaks of "elohim" and
chapter two speaks of "jehovah elohim". Elohim is the Creator in
relationship to His creation as its Creator while Jehovah is the same
God in covenant relationship with the Creation. Thus, the plural,
points to that fact that Elohim in chapter one and Jehovah in chapter
two are the same God. It also points to the fact that the two
chapters must be blended to be able to understand the six day
reconstruction period.
The "us" could not possibly refer to Jesus Christ for one very good
reason. And that is that Jesus is foretold as the Promised Seed in
Genesis 3:15 Genesis 1:26 comes chronologically before Genesis 3:15
and Jesus was not born fro several thousand years after Genesis 3:15.
For one to say that Jesus is part of the "us" of Genesis 1:26 is to
call God a liar because of that were true then the prophecy of Genesis
3:15 would be a lie.
4. Gen. 19:24, "Then the Lord [YHWH] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah
brimstone and fire from the Lord [YHWH] out of heaven."
No pluralities involved. Notice that it is the same Lord; not two
different Lords. The repeated "Lord" makes the statement very
emphatic via the figure Hendiadys (Two for One).
5. Psalm 45:6-7, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter
of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom. 7Thou hast loved
righteousness, and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Thy God, has
anointed Thee."
1. This is quoted in Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He [God] says,
³Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is
the scepter of His kingdom."
2. The Jehovah's Witness Bible has it translated as "God is thy
Throne forever and ever..." But, God would not be a throne for anyone.
A king sits upon a throne and God sits on His throne, not anyone else on
God as a throne.
Two different beings. God is God and god is Jesus Christ. God is the
greater God and Jesus Christ is the lesser god who is subordinate to
the greater God.
6. Isaiah 6:8, "Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom
shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send
me!'"
Same as above.
7. Isaiah 48:16, "Come near to Me [God], listen to this: From the
first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was
there. And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit.²
You need to read that verse in the context which puts idolatry in a
negative context. You can not get Jesus Christ into the chapter. He
is not mentioned anywhere. You need to consider verse 11 where God
says "I will not give my glory to another".
8. Amos 4:10-11, ³I sent a plague among you after the manner of
Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured
horses, And I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; Yet
you have not returned to Me,² declares the Lord [YHWH]. 11³I overthrew
you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, And you were like a firebrand
snatched from a blaze; Yet you have not returned to Me,² declares the
Lord."
Elohim and Jehovah are the same God. Verse ten speaks of the Creator
in relationship to His creation as its Creator. Verse eleven speaks
of the same God in covenant relationship with the creation. Jesus
Christ is not mentioned in the verse.
# Plurality of God in the New Testament
1. Matt. 3:16-17, "And after being baptized, Jesus went up
immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he
saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, 17and
behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, ³This is My beloved Son, in
whom I am well-pleased.²
That verse disproves the trinity doctrine. It clearly shows that the
Greater and the Lesser are separate and different beings. The lesser
being did not have spirit prior to it decsending from God downard upon
Jesus Christ.
2. Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy
Spirit,"
That verse disproves the trinity. The conjunction "and" is used to
enumerate a list of three separate things via the figure Polysyndeton.
The verse reads:
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in
the name
1) of the Father
2) and the Son
3) and the Holy Spirit,"
1. Note that there is one name and three persons.
Duh, that is the way it would be in a sentence.
3. 1 Cor. 12:4-6, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same
Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And
there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in
all persons."
1. "Lord" here is probably Jesus. See next verse.
Disproves the trinity. There are three separate entities mentioned.
4. 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of
God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
Disproves the trinity. Three separate entities.
5. Eph. 4:4-6, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you
were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one
baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and
in all."
Disproves the trinity. Do you see the word "one"? Pay attention to
the Greek "heis" and "mia". Heis is the numeral "one" and "mia" is
the feminine.
Ephesians 4:4 KJV
[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope
of your calling;
Ephesians 4:5 KJV
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:6 KJV
One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in
you all.
1 (spirit) +1 (Lord) + 1 (God). 1+1+1=3
Notice that God is Father of ALL that precede and that makes God
superior to all before and after God.
6. 1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by
the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and
be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest
measure."
Disproves the trinity. 1+1+1=3
7. Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most
holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21keep yourselves in the love of
God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal
life."
Disproves the trinity. 1+1+1 = 3
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bible John" |
|
| Title: Re: Verses that backup the Trinity Doctrine |
22 Oct 2005 08:40:24 PM |
|
|
In article <f9lll15g4e81410imsan87ono61234dtv0@4ax.com>,
Bible Bob <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 05:51:49 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:
MY PREDICTION-Winter nor Bob will fight me verse by verse here.
I was wrong about BB
# Plurality of God in the Old Testament
1. Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image,
according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea
and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the
earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'"
1. Angels do not create.
2. We are not made in the image of angels
3. there is no place in the OT where a leader refers to himself
with the term "us."
2. Gen. 3:22, "Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become
like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his
hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.'"
3. Gen. 11:7, "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language,
that they may not understand one another¹s speech."
The plural is used for the singular frequently in the Bible. For
example, in Genesis 1:1 elohim and shamayim are plural. In verse two
panim and mayim are also plural. Other examples, off the top of my
head, are the "mountains" of Arat and the "cities" of Sodom later in
Genesis.
Then there is the plural of majesty as in "We the Queen" (Genesis
1:26) (see Illustrations of Bible Idioms, Young's Analytical
Concordance to the Bible.
I have heard this argument before. I do not agree with it.
Then there is the figure of speech Hendiadys (Two for One) where two
things are said while one thing is meant. Or, Heterosis (Change of
Accidence).
Then there is that fact that chapter one speaks of "elohim" and
chapter two speaks of "jehovah elohim". Elohim is the Creator in
relationship to His creation as its Creator while Jehovah is the same
God in covenant relationship with the Creation. Thus, the plural,
points to that fact that Elohim in chapter one and Jehovah in chapter
two are the same God. It also points to the fact that the two
chapters must be blended to be able to understand the six day
reconstruction period.
The "us" could not possibly refer to Jesus Christ for one very good
reason. And that is that Jesus is foretold as the Promised Seed in
Genesis 3:15 Genesis 1:26 comes chronologically before Genesis 3:15
and Jesus was not born fro several thousand years after Genesis 3:15.
For one to say that Jesus is part of the "us" of Genesis 1:26 is to
call God a liar because of that were true then the prophecy of Genesis
3:15 would be a lie.
But you forgot John 1. BB it appears obvious that you do not believe
that Jesus is God since you claim he was not with God in the beginning!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have
seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father,
full of grace and truth.
4. Gen. 19:24, "Then the Lord [YHWH] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah
brimstone and fire from the Lord [YHWH] out of heaven."
No pluralities involved. Notice that it is the same Lord; not two
different Lords. The repeated "Lord" makes the statement very
emphatic via the figure Hendiadys (Two for One).
5. Psalm 45:6-7, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter
of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom. 7Thou hast loved
righteousness, and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Thy God, has
anointed Thee."
1. This is quoted in Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He [God] says,
³Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is
the scepter of His kingdom."
2. The Jehovah's Witness Bible has it translated as "God is thy
Throne forever and ever..." But, God would not be a throne for anyone.
A king sits upon a throne and God sits on His throne, not anyone else on
God as a throne.
Two different beings. God is God and god is Jesus Christ. God is the
greater God and Jesus Christ is the lesser god who is subordinate to
the greater God.
False. Jesus is one with God, because he is God!
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.
6. Isaiah 6:8, "Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom
shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send
me!'"
Same as above.
7. Isaiah 48:16, "Come near to Me [God], listen to this: From the
first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was
there. And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit.²
You need to read that verse in the context which puts idolatry in a
negative context. You can not get Jesus Christ into the chapter. He
is not mentioned anywhere. You need to consider verse 11 where God
says "I will not give my glory to another".
Yes thats because he was the Word and the Son of Man in the OT. He is
mentioned in the OT in many places. Read the book of Daniel.
8. Amos 4:10-11, ³I sent a plague among you after the manner of
Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured
horses, And I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; Yet
you have not returned to Me,² declares the Lord [YHWH]. 11³I overthrew
you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, And you were like a firebrand
snatched from a blaze; Yet you have not returned to Me,² declares the
Lord."
Elohim and Jehovah are the same God. Verse ten speaks of the Creator
in relationship to His creation as its Creator. Verse eleven speaks
of the same God in covenant relationship with the creation. Jesus
Christ is not mentioned in the verse.
# Plurality of God in the New Testament
1. Matt. 3:16-17, "And after being baptized, Jesus went up
immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he
saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, 17and
behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, ³This is My beloved Son, in
whom I am well-pleased.²
That verse disproves the trinity doctrine. It clearly shows that the
Greater and the Lesser are separate and different beings. The lesser
being did not have spirit prior to it decsending from God downard upon
Jesus Christ.
Really?
2. Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy
Spirit,"
That verse disproves the trinity. The conjunction "and" is used to
enumerate a list of three separate things via the figure Polysyndeton.
The verse reads:
BB why do you have eyes that fail to see, and ears that fail to hear?
It appears very obvious to indicate there is a trinity. BB if someone
with a 6th grade education can understand this, why cant you?
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in
the name
1) of the Father
2) and the Son
3) and the Holy Spirit,"
1. Note that there is one name and three persons.
Duh, that is the way it would be in a sentence.
3. 1 Cor. 12:4-6, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same
Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And
there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in
all persons."
1. "Lord" here is probably Jesus. See next verse.
Disproves the trinity. There are three separate entities mentioned.
4. 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of
God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
Disproves the trinity. Three separate entities.
No three as one
5. Eph. 4:4-6, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you
were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one
baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and
in all."
Disproves the trinity. Do you see the word "one"? Pay attention to
the Greek "heis" and "mia". Heis is the numeral "one" and "mia" is
the feminine.
Yeah yeah
Ephesians 4:4 KJV
[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope
of your calling;
Ephesians 4:5 KJV
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:6 KJV
One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in
you all.
1 (spirit) +1 (Lord) + 1 (God). 1+1+1=3
Notice that God is Father of ALL that precede and that makes God
superior to all before and after God.
6. 1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by
the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and
be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest
measure."
Disproves the trinity. 1+1+1=3
7. Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most
holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21keep yourselves in the love of
God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal
life."
Disproves the trinity. 1+1+1 = 3
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
John
--
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
John 14:6 Jesus answered, ³I am the way and
the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father
except through me.
AIM-Crucifyself03
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|
|
|
| User: "Bible Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: Verses that backup the Trinity Doctrine |
22 Oct 2005 09:32:15 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:40:24 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:
In article <f9lll15g4e81410imsan87ono61234dtv0@4ax.com>,
Bible Bob <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 05:51:49 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:
MY PREDICTION-Winter nor Bob will fight me verse by verse here.
I was wrong about BB
# Plurality of God in the Old Testament
1. Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image,
according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea
and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the
earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'"
1. Angels do not create.
2. We are not made in the image of angels
3. there is no place in the OT where a leader refers to himself
with the term "us."
2. Gen. 3:22, "Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become
like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his
hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.'"
3. Gen. 11:7, "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language,
that they may not understand one another¹s speech."
The plural is used for the singular frequently in the Bible. For
example, in Genesis 1:1 elohim and shamayim are plural. In verse two
panim and mayim are also plural. Other examples, off the top of my
head, are the "mountains" of Arat and the "cities" of Sodom later in
Genesis.
Then there is the plural of majesty as in "We the Queen" (Genesis
1:26) (see Illustrations of Bible Idioms, Young's Analytical
Concordance to the Bible.
I have heard this argument before. I do not agree with it.
If you do not agree with it, it is probably true for no other reason
than that.
It does not matter whether you agree, John. What matters is that you
learn how to read and understand what the Scriptures say. That is the
only way you will begin to learn the nature of God. The Comforter -
brings to rememberance John. That means you have to "member" it so it
can be "re membered".
Then there is the figure of speech Hendiadys (Two for One) where two
things are said while one thing is meant. Or, Heterosis (Change of
Accidence).
Then there is that fact that chapter one speaks of "elohim" and
chapter two speaks of "jehovah elohim". Elohim is the Creator in
relationship to His creation as its Creator while Jehovah is the same
God in covenant relationship with the Creation. Thus, the plural,
points to that fact that Elohim in chapter one and Jehovah in chapter
two are the same God. It also points to the fact that the two
chapters must be blended to be able to understand the six day
reconstruction period.
The "us" could not possibly refer to Jesus Christ for one very good
reason. And that is that Jesus is foretold as the Promised Seed in
Genesis 3:15 Genesis 1:26 comes chronologically before Genesis 3:15
and Jesus was not born fro several thousand years after Genesis 3:15.
For one to say that Jesus is part of the "us" of Genesis 1:26 is to
call God a liar because of that were true then the prophecy of Genesis
3:15 would be a lie.
But you forgot John 1. BB it appears obvious that you do not believe
that Jesus is God since you claim he was not with God in the beginning!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have
seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father,
full of grace and truth.
John,
You still do not know what I believe.
I did not forget John 1 as I mention it further down the page.
Show me the word "Jesus" in John 1:1. Show me the word "Jesus" in
John 1:1 through John 1:14. I have explained all this to you before.
If you want to remain ignorant remain ignorant.
Jesus is a god as stated in Hebrews. Jesus is not the Father and the
Father is not the Son.
4. Gen. 19:24, "Then the Lord [YHWH] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah
brimstone and fire from the Lord [YHWH] out of heaven."
No pluralities involved. Notice that it is the same Lord; not two
different Lords. The repeated "Lord" makes the statement very
emphatic via the figure Hendiadys (Two for One).
5. Psalm 45:6-7, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter
of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom. 7Thou hast loved
righteousness, and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Thy God, has
anointed Thee."
1. This is quoted in Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He [God] says,
³Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is
the scepter of His kingdom."
2. The Jehovah's Witness Bible has it translated as "God is thy
Throne forever and ever..." But, God would not be a throne for anyone.
A king sits upon a throne and God sits on His throne, not anyone else on
God as a throne.
Two different beings. God is God and god is Jesus Christ. God is the
greater God and Jesus Christ is the lesser god who is subordinate to
the greater God.
False. Jesus is one with God, because he is God!
Dummy! You just quoted the verse. Read it behind the "1." above.
Can't you read what you quote even when supply the elipisis????
The word "God" following "O" should not be capitalized.
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.
In purpose John. Read the verse above it. Learn to read in context
(like you told someone else to do yesterday).
John 10:29 KJV
My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is
able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
John 10:30 KJV
I and [my] Father are one.
The Father is greater than the Son (VS 29). The two are united in
purpose but are different types. One is Spirit and one is human.
6. Isaiah 6:8, "Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom
shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send
me!'"
Same as above.
7. Isaiah 48:16, "Come near to Me [God], listen to this: From the
first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was
there. And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit.²
You need to read that verse in the context which puts idolatry in a
negative context. You can not get Jesus Christ into the chapter. He
is not mentioned anywhere. You need to consider verse 11 where God
says "I will not give my glory to another".
Yes thats because he was the Word and the Son of Man in the OT. He is
mentioned in the OT in many places. Read the book of Daniel.
Has no relation to the above verses.
8. Amos 4:10-11, ³I sent a plague among you after the manner of
Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured
horses, And I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; Yet
you have not returned to Me,² declares the Lord [YHWH]. 11³I overthrew
you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, And you were like a firebrand
snatched from a blaze; Yet you have not returned to Me,² declares the
Lord."
Elohim and Jehovah are the same God. Verse ten speaks of the Creator
in relationship to His creation as its Creator. Verse eleven speaks
of the same God in covenant relationship with the creation. Jesus
Christ is not mentioned in the verse.
# Plurality of God in the New Testament
1. Matt. 3:16-17, "And after being baptized, Jesus went up
immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he
saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, 17and
behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, ³This is My beloved Son, in
whom I am well-pleased.²
That verse disproves the trinity doctrine. It clearly shows that the
Greater and the Lesser are separate and different beings. The lesser
being did not have spirit prior to it decsending from God downard upon
Jesus Christ.
Really?
Of course John. Jesus was born of a woman and lived as a normal man
without spirit for about 30 years and it was in that way that he was
tempted in all ways as we yet without sin. Had he had spirit, he
could not have been tempted in the same way or to the same degree that
men are because he would have had an advantage. Then, AFTER, he
receives the spirit from God, what happens? He contends with the
devil and is tempted in all ways but this time spirit is upon him so
that he can say that he was tempted in all ways like those who would
be spiritual men and women (us). Jesus did not begin his ministry
until he was empowered from on high. In like manner, we are not
given our ambassadorship without first being saved and recieving the
gift of holy spirit.
2. Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy
Spirit,"
That verse disproves the trinity. The conjunction "and" is used to
enumerate a list of three separate things via the figure Polysyndeton.
The verse reads:
BB why do you have eyes that fail to see, and ears that fail to hear?
It appears very obvious to indicate there is a trinity. BB if someone
with a 6th grade education can understand this, why cant you?
Because I am better educated that a sixth grader and know how to read
the Bible. I do have eyes that see and ears that hear what they are
supposed to see and hear from God and His word not from false
teachers.
John, why can't you understand one of the simplest, one of the
easiest to spot, and one of the best know figures of speech used in
the Bible. Look up the figure "Polysyndeton" and you will see that I
am right.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in
the name
1) of the Father
2) and the Son
3) and the Holy Spirit,"
1. Note that there is one name and three persons.
Duh, that is the way it would be in a sentence.
3. 1 Cor. 12:4-6, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same
Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And
there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in
all persons."
1. "Lord" here is probably Jesus. See next verse.
Disproves the trinity. There are three separate entities mentioned.
4. 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of
God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
Disproves the trinity. Three separate entities.
No three as one
No, John read the sentence and pay attention to the words. The three
are enumerated by the conjunction "and" via the figure Polysyndeton.
1) The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ,
2) and the love of God,
3) and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit,
be with you all."
Can't you see that 1+1+1=3
5. Eph. 4:4-6, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you
were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one
baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and
in all."
Disproves the trinity. Do you see the word "one"? Pay attention to
the Greek "heis" and "mia". Heis is the numeral "one" and "mia" is
the feminine.
Yeah yeah
Oh! So you think God is an idiot and does not know how to use words.
Your disrepect for God and His word is noted.
Ephesians 4:4 KJV
[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope
of your calling;
Ephesians 4:5 KJV
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:6 KJV
One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in
you all.
1 (spirit) +1 (Lord) + 1 (God). 1+1+1=3
Notice that God is Father of ALL that precede and that makes God
superior to all before and after God.
6. 1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by
the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and
be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest
measure."
Disproves the trinity. 1+1+1=3
7. Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most
holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21keep yourselves in the love of
God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal
life."
Disproves the trinity. 1+1+1 = 3
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
John
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bible John" |
|
| Title: Re: Verses that backup the Trinity Doctrine |
22 Oct 2005 10:09:43 PM |
|
|
In article <08sll1hn6ok28i4n3hliaonte642odtgve@4ax.com>,
Bible Bob <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
In purpose John. Read the verse above it. Learn to read in context
(like you told someone else to do yesterday).
BB do you know the difference between Essence and Function?
John 10:29 KJV
My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is
able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
John 10:30 KJV
I and [my] Father are one.
The Father is greater than the Son (VS 29). The two are united in
purpose but are different types. One is Spirit and one is human.
BB do you know the difference between Essence and Function?
But i will say that I should listen to Weatherly and not argue with
someone that will not hear the truth.
John
Of course John. Jesus was born of a woman and lived as a normal man
without spirit for about 30 years and it was in that way that he was
tempted in all ways as we yet without sin. Had he had spirit, he
could not have been tempted in the same way or to the same degree that
men are because he would have had an advantage. Then, AFTER, he
receives the spirit from God, what happens? He contends with the
devil and is tempted in all ways but this time spirit is upon him so
that he can say that he was tempted in all ways like those who would
be spiritual men and women (us). Jesus did not begin his ministry
until he was empowered from on high. In like manner, we are not
given our ambassadorship without first being saved and recieving the
gift of holy spirit.
2. Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy
Spirit,"
That verse disproves the trinity. The conjunction "and" is used to
enumerate a list of three separate things via the figure Polysyndeton.
The verse reads:
BB why do you have eyes that fail to see, and ears that fail to hear?
It appears very obvious to indicate there is a trinity. BB if someone
with a 6th grade education can understand this, why cant you?
Because I am better educated that a sixth grader and know how to read
the Bible. I do have eyes that see and ears that hear what they are
supposed to see and hear from God and His word not from false
teachers.
John, why can't you understand one of the simplest, one of the
easiest to spot, and one of the best know figures of speech used in
the Bible. Look up the figure "Polysyndeton" and you will see that I
am right.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in
the name
1) of the Father
2) and the Son
3) and the Holy Spirit,"
1. Note that there is one name and three persons.
Duh, that is the way it would be in a sentence.
3. 1 Cor. 12:4-6, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same
Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And
there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in
all persons."
1. "Lord" here is probably Jesus. See next verse.
Disproves the trinity. There are three separate entities mentioned.
4. 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of
God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
Disproves the trinity. Three separate entities.
No three as one
No, John read the sentence and pay attention to the words. The three
are enumerated by the conjunction "and" via the figure Polysyndeton.
1) The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ,
2) and the love of God,
3) and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit,
be with you all."
Can't you see that 1+1+1=3
5. Eph. 4:4-6, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you
were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one
baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and
in all."
Disproves the trinity. Do you see the word "one"? Pay attention to
the Greek "heis" and "mia". Heis is the numeral "one" and "mia" is
the feminine.
Yeah yeah
Oh! So you think God is an idiot and does not know how to use words.
Your disrepect for God and His word is noted.
--
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
John 14:6 Jesus answered, ³I am the way and
the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father
except through me.
AIM-Crucifyself03
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Verses that backup the Trinity Doctrine |
22 Oct 2005 10:58:41 PM |
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On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:09:43 -0700, Bible John
<john.doggett@x-files.gov> wrote:
In article <08sll1hn6ok28i4n3hliaonte642odtgve@4ax.com>,
Bible Bob <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
In purpose John. Read the verse above it. Learn to read in context
(like you told someone else to do yesterday).
BB do you know the difference between Essence and Function?
Do you know the difference between right and wrong, true and false,
hot and cold, idolatry and worship, Jesus and God, heaven and hell,
oranges and apples?
John 10:29 KJV
My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is
able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
John 10:30 KJV
I and [my] Father are one.
The Father is greater than the Son (VS 29). The two are united in
purpose but are different types. One is Spirit and one is human.
BB do you know the difference between Essence and Function?
Do you know the difference between allos and heterosis, between pneuma
and psuche, between, lambano and dechomai, between apo and huper,
between de and kai, between pros and eis, between logos and rhema, or;
between lukos and probaton?
But i will say that I should listen to Weatherly and not argue with
someone that will not hear the truth.
You should not argue with yourself. Maybe if you ignore yourself,
yourself will learn to listen to the truth.
You do not know what truth is John. You condemn people to death based
on a doctrine you do not understand, can not explain, and can not
prove. You are a deceiver and a hypocrite, a false teacher, and of
late a pathetic excuse of a human being.
John
Of course John. Jesus was born of a woman and lived as a normal man
without spirit for about 30 years and it was in that way that he was
tempted in all ways as we yet without sin. Had he had spirit, he
could not have been tempted in the same way or to the same degree that
men are because he would have had an advantage. Then, AFTER, he
receives the spirit from God, what happens? He contends with the
devil and is tempted in all ways but this time spirit is upon him so
that he can say that he was tempted in all ways like those who would
be spiritual men and women (us). Jesus did not begin his ministry
until he was empowered from on high. In like manner, we are not
given our ambassadorship without first being saved and recieving the
gift of holy spirit.
2. Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy
Spirit,"
That verse disproves the trinity. The conjunction "and" is used to
enumerate a list of three separate things via the figure Polysyndeton.
The verse reads:
BB why do you have eyes that fail to see, and ears that fail to hear?
It appears very obvious to indicate there is a trinity. BB if someone
with a 6th grade education can understand this, why cant you?
Because I am better educated than a sixth grader and know how to read
the Bible. I do have eyes that see and ears that hear what they are
supposed to see and hear from God and His word not from false
teachers.
John, why can't you understand one of the simplest, one of the
easiest to spot, and one of the best know figures of speech used in
the Bible. Look up the figure "Polysyndeton" and you will see that I
am right.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in
the name
1) of the Father
2) and the Son
3) and the Holy Spirit,"
1. Note that there is one name and three persons.
Duh, that is the way it would be in a sentence.
3. 1 Cor. 12:4-6, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same
Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And
there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in
all persons."
1. "Lord" here is probably Jesus. See next verse.
Disproves the trinity. There are three separate entities mentioned.
4. 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of
God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
Disproves the trinity. Three separate entities.
No three as one
No, John read the sentence and pay attention to the words. The three
are enumerated by the conjunction "and" via the figure Polysyndeton.
1) The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ,
2) and the love of God,
3) and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit,
be with you all."
Can't you see that 1+1+1=3
5. Eph. 4:4-6, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you
were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one
baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and
in all."
Disproves the trinity. Do you see the word "one"? Pay attention to
the Greek "heis" and "mia". Heis is the numeral "one" and "mia" is
the feminine.
Yeah yeah
Oh! So you think God is an idiot and does not know how to use words.
Your disrepect for God and His word is noted.
Why don't you give up on being the worlds biggest loser and at least
make an attempt to be a winner?
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
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