| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"MikeH" |
| Date: |
20 Jul 2004 04:26:35 PM |
| Object: |
Was Christ just another Martyr? |
How was the Death of Jesus Christ Different from that of others who
have become martyrs?
The scriptures explain that Christ was an innocent man who was tried &
convicted of crimes he had not committed, & then he was tortured to
death. It was not the first cruel & unjust execution in history, nor
the last. Yet, the death of Jesus was unlike any other. How so?
§
Unlike the rest of mankind who are imperfect because they have
inherited sin from our ancestors, Adam & Eve, Jesus was a perfect
human. 1Peter 2:22.
Please note where it states 'He committed no sin.'
§
Another important point is that Jesus was the unique Son of God. In
Matt 3:17 God himself testified to this audibly from the heavens.
Jesus had lived previously in heaven as a Spirit. To carry out his
will, God had miraculously transferred the life of his Son to the womb
of Mary so that he might be born as a human.
§
Because he was God's Son & a perfect human being, his shed blood has
value to provide deliverance for others. Mark 10:45.
So, the death of Jesus Christ was far more than a case of martyrdom
because of refusal to compromise his beliefs?
Faith in & appreciation for Christ's ransom sacrifice can bring us
into a closer relationship with God & put us on the road to
everlasting life. John 17:3.
.
|
|
| User: "Andrew W" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
23 Jul 2004 06:42:36 PM |
|
|
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:40fd8e09.3167042@news.plus.net...
How was the Death of Jesus Christ Different from that of others who
have become martyrs?
The scriptures explain that Christ was an innocent man who was tried &
convicted of crimes he had not committed, & then he was tortured to
death. It was not the first cruel & unjust execution in history, nor
the last. Yet, the death of Jesus was unlike any other. How so?
§
Unlike the rest of mankind who are imperfect because they have
inherited sin from our ancestors, Adam & Eve, Jesus was a perfect
human. 1Peter 2:22.
Please note where it states 'He committed no sin.'
§
Another important point is that Jesus was the unique Son of God. In
Matt 3:17 God himself testified to this audibly from the heavens.
Jesus had lived previously in heaven as a Spirit. To carry out his
will, God had miraculously transferred the life of his Son to the womb
of Mary so that he might be born as a human.
§
Because he was God's Son & a perfect human being, his shed blood has
value to provide deliverance for others. Mark 10:45.
Forgive my ignorance but how is blood from an innocent person of greater
value than blood from a non-innocent person? Blood is blood.
Is this not just another mystical ritual rule which has no real functional
significance?
So, the death of Jesus Christ was far more than a case of martyrdom
because of refusal to compromise his beliefs?
But the question is, did Jesus come to this world of his own free choice,
because if he didn't then it wasn't a sacrifice at all.
Remember that in the scriptures it says that "God sent his only son into the
world".
He didn't actually volunteer to come here.
Faith in & appreciation for Christ's ransom sacrifice can bring us
into a closer relationship with God & put us on the road to
everlasting life. John 17:3.
So then God didn't actually care who died to pay the price just as long as
someone did, even if it wasn't anyone who was guilty of the original crime.
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
--
Andrew W.
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save
you..."
~ Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
23 Jul 2004 11:05:08 PM |
|
|
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101a270$0$19298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:40fd8e09.3167042@news.plus.net...
<snip>
Jesus had lived previously in heaven as a Spirit. To carry out his
will, God had miraculously transferred the life of his Son to the womb
of Mary so that he might be born as a human.
§
Because he was God's Son & a perfect human being, his shed blood has
value to provide deliverance for others. Mark 10:45.
Forgive my ignorance but how is blood from an innocent person of greater
value than blood from a non-innocent person?
It is pure and untainted
Blood is blood.
Spiritually, blood is life, and thus effected by the life lived
Is this not just another mystical ritual rule which has no real functional
significance?
Religion is mystical
So, the death of Jesus Christ was far more than a case of martyrdom
because of refusal to compromise his beliefs?
But the question is, did Jesus come to this world of his own free choice,
because if he didn't then it wasn't a sacrifice at all.
Whoa, so the animals sacrificed prior to His coming all *volunteered* ?
Remember that in the scriptures it says that "God sent his only son into
the
world".
He didn't actually volunteer to come here.
So ?
Faith in & appreciation for Christ's ransom sacrifice can bring us
into a closer relationship with God & put us on the road to
everlasting life. John 17:3.
So then God didn't actually care who died to pay the price just as long as
someone did, even if it wasn't anyone who was guilty of the original
crime.
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
HUH ???
--
Andrew W.
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save
you..."
~ Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Andrew W" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
24 Jul 2004 01:13:34 AM |
|
|
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10g3nvk9bn3mvb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101a270$0$19298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:40fd8e09.3167042@news.plus.net...
<snip>
Forgive my ignorance but how is blood from an innocent person of greater
value than blood from a non-innocent person?
It is pure and untainted
What is a sinner's blood tainted with and why haven't doctors found it by
now?
Blood is blood.
Spiritually, blood is life, and thus effected by the life lived
Blood is physical. It is for the body only. It has nothing to do with the
spiritual.
And why is the Christian God so obsessed with it?
Is this not just another mystical ritual rule which has no real
functional
significance?
Religion is mystical
Really? I would never have guessed.
But the question is, did Jesus come to this world of his own free
choice,
because if he didn't then it wasn't a sacrifice at all.
Whoa, so the animals sacrificed prior to His coming all *volunteered* ?
Lol.
If the animals were to volunteer, then they would be the ones who are
credited for the sacrifice, not the humans.
But because the animals were the ones that lost their lives instead of the
humans, the humans are not credited either. The only loss for the humans is
that they now have a few less animals running around, but what happens to
the dead animals? They usually get eaten by the very same humans, and since
humans have to kill and eat animals to survive anyway, it's no loss at all.
Sometimes they might burn the animals but then the only thing God is going
to get out of it is a bunch of smoke.
The whole thing is a circus, is it not?
Remember that in the scriptures it says that "God sent his only son into
the
world".
He didn't actually volunteer to come here.
So ?
Lol.
One has to go of their own accord for it to be 'their' sacrifice, otherwise
the sacrifice is by the one who made him do it.
So then God didn't actually care who died to pay the price just as long
as
someone did, even if it wasn't anyone who was guilty of the original
crime.
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
HUH ???
Arbitrary then.
--
Andrew W.
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save
you..."
~ Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
27 Jul 2004 01:50:42 PM |
|
|
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101fe13$0$16108$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10g3nvk9bn3mvb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101a270$0$19298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:40fd8e09.3167042@news.plus.net...
<snip>
Forgive my ignorance but how is blood from an innocent person of
greater
value than blood from a non-innocent person?
It is pure and untainted
What is a sinner's blood tainted with and why haven't doctors found it by
now?
Going back to the OT, in the law stating not to eat anything with blood
still in it (the blood was to be drained, then that still there cooked out
of it) because spiritually speaking blood symbolizes *life*. Such is why the
creatures sacrificed had to be *without blemish* perfect in form. Such was
the same in relation to Christ's sacrifice.
Blood is blood.
Spiritually, blood is life, and thus effected by the life lived
Blood is physical.
Yes, in the literal, rather than poetically / symbolically, the heart is
also nothing but a pump ! We are not taking materalistically here, but we
are involved in a spiritual matter
It is for the body only. It has nothing to do with the spiritual.
Without spiritual discernment, you are clearly unable to comprehend the
mysteries (mystic quality), of religion. So I am most likely wasting my
breath trying to explain the color blue, to a blind man
And why is the Christian God so obsessed with it?
For its spiritual / mystical meaning, blood is a covering hiding sin from
God, and making us pure in His sight, of course we are "obsessed with it",
by it our afterlife is secured
Is this not just another mystical ritual rule which has no real
functional significance?
Religion is mystical
Really? I would never have guessed.
Sarcasm noted, so why come at it in another way ?
But the question is, did Jesus come to this world of his own free
choice,
because if he didn't then it wasn't a sacrifice at all.
Whoa, so the animals sacrificed prior to His coming all *volunteered* ?
Lol.
If the animals were to volunteer, then they would be the ones who are
credited for the sacrifice, not the humans.
You missed the point and insist on your false primese on the matter. Whether
or not the sacrificed voluntary allowed the sacrifice, although Christ did
volunteer "not my will, but thine will be done", is irrelevant
But because the animals were the ones that lost their lives instead of the
humans, the humans are not credited either. The only loss for the humans
is
that they now have a few less animals running around, but what happens to
the dead animals? They usually get eaten by the very same humans, and
since
humans have to kill and eat animals to survive anyway, it's no loss at
all.
Sometimes they might burn the animals but then the only thing God is going
to get out of it is a bunch of smoke.
The whole thing is a circus, is it not?
Again you lack spiritual discernment, or are being delibrately *ignorant*, I
am not sure which. BTW they were eaten by the priests, and not the ones who
offered it, as part of an act of repentence, to give thanks, or to fulfill a
vow. According to scripture God fully enjoyed the "sweet saviour" / its
smell, IOWs He got much more than "smoke"
For the devout it was much more than a "circus" (But I don't expect you to
comprehend this)
Remember that in the scriptures it says that "God sent his only son
into the world".
He didn't actually volunteer to come here.
So ?
Lol.
One has to go of their own accord for it to be 'their' sacrifice,
otherwise
the sacrifice is by the one who made him do it.
Do you make up the rules as you go along ?
So then God didn't actually care who died to pay the price just as
long as
someone did, even if it wasn't anyone who was guilty of the original
crime.
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
HUH ???
Arbitrary then.
God did care, He chose His pure Son, you were so off base, that your
statement lacked any spiritual insight, and thus my response was "HUH ???"
--
Andrew W.
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save
you..."
~ Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
27 Jul 2004 02:58:38 PM |
|
|
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10gd8vrdfvf1kc6@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101fe13$0$16108$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10g3nvk9bn3mvb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101a270$0$19298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:40fd8e09.3167042@news.plus.net...
<snip>
Forgive my ignorance but how is blood from an innocent person of
greater
value than blood from a non-innocent person?
It is pure and untainted
What is a sinner's blood tainted with and why haven't doctors found it
by
now?
Going back to the OT, in the law stating not to eat anything with blood
still in it (the blood was to be drained, then that still there cooked out
of it) because spiritually speaking blood symbolizes *life*. Such is why
the
creatures sacrificed had to be *without blemish* perfect in form. Such was
the same in relation to Christ's sacrifice.
Blood is blood.
Spiritually, blood is life, and thus effected by the life lived
Blood is physical.
Yes, in the literal, rather than poetically / symbolically, the heart is
also nothing but a pump ! We are not taking materalistically here, but we
are involved in a spiritual matter
It is for the body only. It has nothing to do with the spiritual.
Without spiritual discernment, you are clearly unable to comprehend the
mysteries (mystic quality), of religion. So I am most likely wasting my
breath trying to explain the color blue, to a blind man
And why is the Christian God so obsessed with it?
For its spiritual / mystical meaning, blood is a covering hiding sin from
God, and making us pure in His sight, of course we are "obsessed with it",
by it our afterlife is secured
Is this not just another mystical ritual rule which has no real
functional significance?
Religion is mystical
Really? I would never have guessed.
Sarcasm noted, so why come at it in another way ?
But the question is, did Jesus come to this world of his own free
choice,
because if he didn't then it wasn't a sacrifice at all.
Whoa, so the animals sacrificed prior to His coming all *volunteered*
?
Lol.
If the animals were to volunteer, then they would be the ones who are
credited for the sacrifice, not the humans.
You missed the point and insist on your false primese on the matter.
Whether
or not the sacrificed voluntary allowed the sacrifice, although Christ did
volunteer "not my will, but thine will be done", is irrelevant
But because the animals were the ones that lost their lives instead of
the
humans, the humans are not credited either. The only loss for the humans
is
that they now have a few less animals running around, but what happens
to
the dead animals? They usually get eaten by the very same humans, and
since
humans have to kill and eat animals to survive anyway, it's no loss at
all.
Sometimes they might burn the animals but then the only thing God is
going
to get out of it is a bunch of smoke.
The whole thing is a circus, is it not?
Again you lack spiritual discernment, or are being delibrately *ignorant*,
I
am not sure which. BTW they were eaten by the priests, and not the ones
who
offered it, as part of an act of repentence, to give thanks, or to fulfill
a
vow. According to scripture God fully enjoyed the "sweet saviour" / its
smell, IOWs He got much more than "smoke"
For the devout it was much more than a "circus" (But I don't expect you to
comprehend this)
Remember that in the scriptures it says that "God sent his only son
into the world".
He didn't actually volunteer to come here.
So ?
Lol.
One has to go of their own accord for it to be 'their' sacrifice,
otherwise
the sacrifice is by the one who made him do it.
Do you make up the rules as you go along ?
So then God didn't actually care who died to pay the price just as
long as
someone did, even if it wasn't anyone who was guilty of the original
crime.
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
HUH ???
Arbitrary then.
God did care, He chose His pure Son, you were so off base, that your
statement lacked any spiritual insight, and thus my response was "HUH ???"
--
Andrew W.
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save
you..."
~ Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Andrew W" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
28 Jul 2004 04:58:42 AM |
|
|
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10gd8vrdfvf1kc6@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101fe13$0$16108$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Going back to the OT, in the law stating not to eat anything with blood
still in it (the blood was to be drained, then that still there cooked out
of it) because spiritually speaking blood symbolizes *life*. Such is why
the
creatures sacrificed had to be *without blemish* perfect in form. Such was
the same in relation to Christ's sacrifice.
Blood is physical.
Yes, in the literal, rather than poetically / symbolically, the heart is
also nothing but a pump ! We are not taking materalistically here, but we
are involved in a spiritual matter
It is for the body only. It has nothing to do with the spiritual.
Without spiritual discernment, you are clearly unable to comprehend the
mysteries (mystic quality), of religion. So I am most likely wasting my
breath trying to explain the color blue, to a blind man
This is all just primitive (formerly pagan) mystical symbolism and rituals.
You're not serious about this stuff are you?
It's ok to study it as a hobby but surely you can't think that it's all real
in the 21st century.
And why is the Christian God so obsessed with it?
For its spiritual / mystical meaning, blood is a covering hiding sin from
God, and making us pure in His sight, of course we are "obsessed with it",
by it our afterlife is secured
But it's all just symbolic and we can't be punished for real if that's all
it is.
Lol.
If the animals were to volunteer, then they would be the ones who are
credited for the sacrifice, not the humans.
You missed the point and insist on your false primese on the matter.
How do you know that it's my premises that are false?
A large number of people believing ancient mystical stories doesn't make
those stories true.
Whether
or not the sacrificed voluntary allowed the sacrifice, although Christ did
volunteer "not my will, but thine will be done", is irrelevant
He didn't volunteer. He submitted and submit is what slaves do for tyrants.
Sometimes they might burn the animals but then the only thing God is
going
to get out of it is a bunch of smoke.
The whole thing is a circus, is it not?
Again you lack spiritual discernment, or are being delibrately *ignorant*,
I
Discernment is judging whether something you hear is true or moral.
Do you think the god of the bible is moral? If so then why?
What about the bible. What method do you use to test for truth in that?
am not sure which. BTW they were eaten by the priests, and not the ones
who
offered it,
Sounds to me like the priests are the winners then. They get to fill their
bellies with the primest cuts for free.
It would be nice to have a job like that.
as part of an act of repentence, to give thanks, or to fulfill a
vow.
How does burning something show gratitude?
According to scripture God fully enjoyed the "sweet saviour" / its
smell, IOWs He got much more than "smoke"
Yes, smell has far more substance than smoke (sarcasm) and no god should
have to go without the sweet smell of a living thing burning.
God's are spirits BTW so they don't have noses. Except maybe fake gods.
For the devout it was much more than a "circus" (But I don't expect you to
comprehend this)
I comprehend it but I just think that the beings in the upper realms are
looking down and saying "man, what are those silly humans doing now?".
Lol.
One has to go of their own accord for it to be 'their' sacrifice,
otherwise
the sacrifice is by the one who made him do it.
Do you make up the rules as you go along ?
No. It's common sense.
If you want to see made up rules, just read the bible.
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
HUH ???
Arbitrary then.
God did care, He chose His pure Son,
....who was allegedly part of himself. He chose himself in effect.
I think he's a bit self centred don't you?
you were so off base, that your
statement lacked any spiritual insight, and thus my response was "HUH ???"
It wasn't spiritual insight that my statement lacked. It was observation of
any moral purpose.
--
Andrew W.
There's no such thing as free speech in religion and there is no democracy
in heaven.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
28 Jul 2004 02:23:02 PM |
|
|
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:410778d6$0$28538$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10gd8vrdfvf1kc6@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101fe13$0$16108$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
<snip>
Without spiritual discernment, you are clearly unable to comprehend the
mysteries (mystic quality), of religion. So I am most likely wasting my
breath trying to explain the color blue, to a blind man
This is all just primitive (formerly pagan) mystical symbolism and
rituals.
Opinions are entirely irrelevant, as is the evolutionary history, as far as
I am concerned
You're not serious about this stuff are you?
As serious as life and death
It's ok to study it as a hobby but surely you can't think that it's all
real
in the 21st century.
Don't tell me what I can / can't do in any century
I see Spiritual truths behind it all
And why is the Christian God so obsessed with it?
For its spiritual / mystical meaning, blood is a covering hiding sin
from
God, and making us pure in His sight, of course we are "obsessed with
it",
by it our afterlife is secured
But it's all just symbolic and we can't be punished for real if that's all
it is.
God may have other ideas
Lol.
If the animals were to volunteer, then they would be the ones who are
credited for the sacrifice, not the humans.
You missed the point and insist on your false primese on the matter.
How do you know that it's my premises that are false?
Because it doesn't match up with the reality of the faith, as I tried to
point out, whether or not the sacrificed volunteered ITSELF, isn't the
issue, as the OFFERER of the sacrifice, (God in the case of the Christ), is
the issue for us, in accordance with the message, to say otherwise, (as you
have by focusing on the sacrificed), is twisting the message, and asking
questions that can't be answered correctly, as they are totally out of
context (like comparing milking a cow, to space flight)
A large number of people believing ancient mystical stories doesn't make
those stories true.
By the belief itself, it is true to the believer, and THAT is quite enough
Whether or not the sacrificed voluntary allowed the sacrifice, although
Christ did
volunteer "not my will, but thine will be done", is irrelevant
He didn't volunteer. He submitted and submit is what slaves do for
tyrants.
Not that it really matters.
Sometimes they might burn the animals but then the only thing God is
going
to get out of it is a bunch of smoke.
The whole thing is a circus, is it not?
Again you lack spiritual discernment, or are being delibrately
*ignorant*, I
Discernment is judging whether something you hear is true or moral.
Do you think the god of the bible is moral?
I know the God of the New Testament is
If so then why?
No time to write a book
What about the bible. What method do you use to test for truth in that?
am not sure which. BTW they were eaten by the priests, and not the ones
who
offered it,
Sounds to me like the priests are the winners then. They get to fill their
bellies with the primest cuts for free.
It would be nice to have a job like that.
as part of an act of repentence, to give thanks, or to fulfill a
vow.
How does burning something show gratitude?
Ask God, He found enjoyment in the sweet smell
Don't you show your gratitude by doing something which pleases your
benifactor ?
According to scripture God fully enjoyed the "sweet saviour" / its
smell, IOWs He got much more than "smoke"
Yes, smell has far more substance than smoke
Yes, it does
(sarcasm)
ingored
and no god should have to go without the sweet smell of a living thing
burning.
God's are spirits BTW so they don't have noses. Except maybe fake gods.
Opinion is irrelevant, God who was/is spirit was able to smell the *dead*
meat which was burning (it was not alive)
For the devout it was much more than a "circus" (But I don't expect you
to
comprehend this)
I comprehend it but I just think that the beings in the upper realms are
looking down and saying "man, what are those silly humans doing now?".
Hope you know that what you think is not of much import to me
Lol.
One has to go of their own accord for it to be 'their' sacrifice,
otherwise
the sacrifice is by the one who made him do it.
Do you make up the rules as you go along ?
No. It's common sense.
Maybe it is *sense* to you, but it is hardly *common*
If you want to see made up rules, just read the bible.
Read it, and according to it, *you* are the one making up rules (get it ?)
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
HUH ???
Arbitrary then.
God did care, He chose His pure Son,
...who was allegedly part of himself.
EVERYTHING is part of God, so ?
He chose himself in effect.
There is nothing, and no one, else
I think he's a bit self centred don't you?
*YHWH* answers your question, IF you know what it means
you were so off base, that your
statement lacked any spiritual insight, and thus my response was "HUH
???"
It wasn't spiritual insight that my statement lacked. It was observation
of
any moral purpose.
It demonstrated a lack of the ability of spiritual observation {the ability
to be a mystic}
--
Andrew W.
There's no such thing as free speech in religion and there is no democracy
in heaven.
Correct it is something *new* a Theocratic-Communistic-Monarchy (have fun
with that one, scripture texts demonstrate this)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
What you *expose* is yourself, like you have here (A blind man trying to
prove more aware than the sighted)
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
27 Jul 2004 02:06:58 PM |
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Another victim of an imperial power.
See Borg Principle: "Resistance is futile". -- L.
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
28 Jul 2004 08:55:33 AM |
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LOL
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4106A7D2.D732968D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Another victim of an imperial power.
See Borg Principle: "Resistance is futile". -- L.
.
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| User: "MikeH" |
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| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
30 Jul 2004 05:00:25 PM |
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"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4106A7D2.D732968D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Another victim of an imperial power.
See Borg Principle: "Resistance is futile". -- L.
Jesus Christ used his free will to serve his Father in heaven because
he loved him. He also used his free will to bring blessings to mankind
by allowing his shed blood to be used as a ransom to buy back what
Adam had lost, perfection.
Jesus Christ was not enslaved to Satan, unlike godless mankind.
"The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one". - 1 John
5:19
"But the lawless one's presence is according to the operation of Satan
with every powerful work & lying signs & portents and with every
unrighteous deception for those who are perishing as a retribution
because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be
saved. - 2 Thess.9-12
.
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| User: "Andrew W" |
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| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
30 Jul 2004 11:25:11 PM |
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"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:410ac4f7.2914487@news.plus.net...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4106A7D2.D732968D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Another victim of an imperial power.
See Borg Principle: "Resistance is futile". -- L.
Jesus Christ used his free will to serve his Father in heaven because
he loved him.
But God had to send Jesus. That means Jesus came primarily out of obedience.
To do it out of love would mean that Jesus would have had to come of his own
accord. There would have been no need to send him.
He also used his free will to bring blessings to mankind
by allowing his shed blood to be used as a ransom to buy back what
Adam had lost, perfection.
If perfection had to be 'bought' back then the God of the bible is a
business man and a Jewish one at that.
A true creator gives life for free and a true creator does not ***** about
the mistakes of his imperfect creations.
Jesus Christ was not enslaved to Satan, unlike godless mankind.
Mankind is godless? Why?
Perhaps God should have spent more time with Adam and Eve instead of letting
them build a relationship with Satan.
And why did God let Satan into the garden in the first place? It was
supposed to be a perfect and safe paradise.
"The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one". - 1 John
5:19
"But the lawless one's presence is according to the operation of Satan
with every powerful work & lying signs & portents and with every
unrighteous deception for those who are perishing as a retribution
because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be
saved. - 2 Thess.9-12
--
Andrew W.
True help is helping another to learn to take care of themselves.
Then they never need to be saved.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
02 Aug 2004 05:50:07 PM |
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I see the "true" creator obeys Andrew's dictates, and lives up to Andrew's
"standards"
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:410b1f2c$0$9811$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:410ac4f7.2914487@news.plus.net...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4106A7D2.D732968D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Another victim of an imperial power.
See Borg Principle: "Resistance is futile". -- L.
Jesus Christ used his free will to serve his Father in heaven because
he loved him.
But God had to send Jesus. That means Jesus came primarily out of
obedience.
To do it out of love would mean that Jesus would have had to come of his
own
accord. There would have been no need to send him.
He also used his free will to bring blessings to mankind
by allowing his shed blood to be used as a ransom to buy back what
Adam had lost, perfection.
If perfection had to be 'bought' back then the God of the bible is a
business man and a Jewish one at that.
A true creator gives life for free and a true creator does not ***** about
the mistakes of his imperfect creations.
Jesus Christ was not enslaved to Satan, unlike godless mankind.
Mankind is godless? Why?
Perhaps God should have spent more time with Adam and Eve instead of
letting
them build a relationship with Satan.
And why did God let Satan into the garden in the first place? It was
supposed to be a perfect and safe paradise.
"The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one". - 1 John
5:19
"But the lawless one's presence is according to the operation of Satan
with every powerful work & lying signs & portents and with every
unrighteous deception for those who are perishing as a retribution
because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be
saved. - 2 Thess.9-12
--
Andrew W.
True help is helping another to learn to take care of themselves.
Then they never need to be saved.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
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| User: "Ray Jestheimier" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
02 Aug 2004 09:11:32 PM |
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10gth8njk649e99@corp.supernews.com...
I see the "true" creator obeys Andrew's dictates, and lives up to Andrew's
"standards"
Almost but not quite. It still has a way to go.
Ray
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
03 Aug 2004 08:32:43 PM |
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Giggles
"Ray Jestheimier" <ray@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ovCPc.203617$IQ4.61455@attbi_s02...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10gth8njk649e99@corp.supernews.com...
I see the "true" creator obeys Andrew's dictates, and lives up to
Andrew's
"standards"
Almost but not quite. It still has a way to go.
Ray
.
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| User: "Julius Southlump" |
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| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
31 Jul 2004 03:21:37 AM |
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"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:410ac4f7.2914487@news.plus.net...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4106A7D2.D732968D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Another victim of an imperial power.
See Borg Principle: "Resistance is futile". -- L.
Jesus Christ used his free will to serve his Father in heaven because
he loved him. He also used his free will to bring blessings to mankind
by allowing his shed blood to be used as a ransom to buy back what
Adam had lost, perfection.
God requires a ransom? Ransoms are what are demanded by kidnappers.
Are you saying that God is a criminal?
Jesus Christ was not enslaved to Satan, unlike godless mankind.
"The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one". - 1 John
5:19
"But the lawless one's presence is according to the operation of Satan
with every powerful work & lying signs & portents and with every
unrighteous deception for those who are perishing as a retribution
because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be
saved. - 2 Thess.9-12
.
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| User: "Renee" |
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| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
31 Jul 2004 06:24:49 PM |
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"Julius Southlump" <js@ouch.com> wrote in message
news:410b5694$0$30773$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:410ac4f7.2914487@news.plus.net...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4106A7D2.D732968D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Another victim of an imperial power.
See Borg Principle: "Resistance is futile". -- L.
Jesus Christ used his free will to serve his Father in heaven because
he loved him. He also used his free will to bring blessings to mankind
by allowing his shed blood to be used as a ransom to buy back what
Adam had lost, perfection.
God requires a ransom? Ransoms are what are demanded by kidnappers.
Are you saying that God is a criminal?
If the wholly babble is to be believed, the bible God is indeed the most
wicked criminal ever!
Renee
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
31 Jul 2004 08:40:13 PM |
|
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Renee wrote:
"Julius Southlump" <js@ouch.com> wrote in message
news:410b5694$0$30773$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:410ac4f7.2914487@news.plus.net...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4106A7D2.D732968D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Another victim of an imperial power.
See Borg Principle: "Resistance is futile". -- L.
Jesus Christ used his free will to serve his Father in heaven because
he loved him. He also used his free will to bring blessings to mankind
by allowing his shed blood to be used as a ransom to buy back what
Adam had lost, perfection.
God requires a ransom? Ransoms are what are demanded by kidnappers.
Are you saying that God is a criminal?
If the wholly babble is to be believed, the bible God is indeed the most
wicked criminal ever!
Renee
===>Indeed. First, he murders millions of unwanted men, animals, babies,
fetuses
because he is "sorry he made them". (Gen. 6)
Then, as if that was not enough, he produces a child, with a married or
betrothed young
girl at that, just to shed his blood for a further cover-up.
No wonder the Gnostic Christians thought he was just a lesser, bungling
deity. -- L.
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
27 Jul 2004 07:09:29 AM |
|
|
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10g3nvk9bn3mvb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101a270$0$19298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:40fd8e09.3167042@news.plus.net...
<snip>
Jesus had lived previously in heaven as a Spirit. To carry out his
will, God had miraculously transferred the life of his Son to the womb
of Mary so that he might be born as a human.
§
Because he was God's Son & a perfect human being, his shed blood has
value to provide deliverance for others. Mark 10:45.
Forgive my ignorance but how is blood from an innocent person of greater
value than blood from a non-innocent person?
It is pure and untainted
Blood is blood.
Spiritually, blood is life, and thus effected by the life lived
Is this not just another mystical ritual rule which has no real
functional
significance?
Religion is mystical
So, the death of Jesus Christ was far more than a case of martyrdom
because of refusal to compromise his beliefs?
But the question is, did Jesus come to this world of his own free
choice,
because if he didn't then it wasn't a sacrifice at all.
Whoa, so the animals sacrificed prior to His coming all *volunteered* ?
Remember that in the scriptures it says that "God sent his only son into
the
world".
He didn't actually volunteer to come here.
So ?
Faith in & appreciation for Christ's ransom sacrifice can bring us
into a closer relationship with God & put us on the road to
everlasting life. John 17:3.
So then God didn't actually care who died to pay the price just as long
as
someone did, even if it wasn't anyone who was guilty of the original
crime.
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
HUH ???
--
Andrew W.
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save
you..."
~ Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
27 Jul 2004 02:58:06 PM |
|
|
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10gchfhmo8728cf@corp.supernews.com...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10g3nvk9bn3mvb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101a270$0$19298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:40fd8e09.3167042@news.plus.net...
<snip>
Jesus had lived previously in heaven as a Spirit. To carry out his
will, God had miraculously transferred the life of his Son to the
womb
of Mary so that he might be born as a human.
§
Because he was God's Son & a perfect human being, his shed blood has
value to provide deliverance for others. Mark 10:45.
Forgive my ignorance but how is blood from an innocent person of
greater
value than blood from a non-innocent person?
It is pure and untainted
Blood is blood.
Spiritually, blood is life, and thus effected by the life lived
Is this not just another mystical ritual rule which has no real
functional
significance?
Religion is mystical
So, the death of Jesus Christ was far more than a case of martyrdom
because of refusal to compromise his beliefs?
But the question is, did Jesus come to this world of his own free
choice,
because if he didn't then it wasn't a sacrifice at all.
Whoa, so the animals sacrificed prior to His coming all *volunteered* ?
Remember that in the scriptures it says that "God sent his only son
into
the
world".
He didn't actually volunteer to come here.
So ?
Faith in & appreciation for Christ's ransom sacrifice can bring us
into a closer relationship with God & put us on the road to
everlasting life. John 17:3.
So then God didn't actually care who died to pay the price just as
long
as
someone did, even if it wasn't anyone who was guilty of the original
crime.
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
HUH ???
--
Andrew W.
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save
you..."
~ Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ira Jamison" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
31 Jul 2004 12:25:00 AM |
|
|
Jesus was the only person qualified by the righteous law of God to be
the perfect sacrifice.
And God the Father made Christ for that spacifice purpose. And Christ
was obedient even unto death.
I believe Christ could have rejected the plan of the Father.
Ira
"Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message news:<10gdcu67ujmb477@corp.supernews.com>...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10gchfhmo8728cf@corp.supernews.com...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10g3nvk9bn3mvb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101a270$0$19298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:40fd8e09.3167042@news.plus.net...
<snip>
Jesus had lived previously in heaven as a Spirit. To carry out his
will, God had miraculously transferred the life of his Son to the
womb
of Mary so that he might be born as a human.
§
Because he was God's Son & a perfect human being, his shed blood has
value to provide deliverance for others. Mark 10:45.
Forgive my ignorance but how is blood from an innocent person of
greater
value than blood from a non-innocent person?
It is pure and untainted
Blood is blood.
Spiritually, blood is life, and thus effected by the life lived
Is this not just another mystical ritual rule which has no real
functional
significance?
Religion is mystical
So, the death of Jesus Christ was far more than a case of martyrdom
because of refusal to compromise his beliefs?
But the question is, did Jesus come to this world of his own free
choice,
because if he didn't then it wasn't a sacrifice at all.
Whoa, so the animals sacrificed prior to His coming all *volunteered* ?
Remember that in the scriptures it says that "God sent his only son
into
the
world".
He didn't actually volunteer to come here.
So ?
Faith in & appreciation for Christ's ransom sacrifice can bring us
into a closer relationship with God & put us on the road to
everlasting life. John 17:3.
So then God didn't actually care who died to pay the price just as
long
as
someone did, even if it wasn't anyone who was guilty of the original
crime.
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
HUH ???
--
Andrew W.
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save
you..."
~ Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
|
| User: "Renee" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
31 Jul 2004 06:23:34 PM |
|
|
"Ira Jamison" <shrimplomaine@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2687231.0407302124.38c504ad@posting.google.com...
Jesus was the only person qualified by the righteous law of God to be
the perfect sacrifice.
And God the Father made Christ for that spacifice purpose. And Christ
was obedient even unto death.
I believe Christ could have rejected the plan of the Father.
If the wholly babble is to be believed, he was only dead for three days!
Big whooping sacrifice, eh? <MG>
Renee
Ira
"Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:<10gdcu67ujmb477@corp.supernews.com>...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10gchfhmo8728cf@corp.supernews.com...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10g3nvk9bn3mvb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101a270$0$19298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:40fd8e09.3167042@news.plus.net...
<snip>
Jesus had lived previously in heaven as a Spirit. To carry out
his
will, God had miraculously transferred the life of his Son to the
womb
of Mary so that he might be born as a human.
§
Because he was God's Son & a perfect human being, his shed blood
has
value to provide deliverance for others. Mark 10:45.
Forgive my ignorance but how is blood from an innocent person of
greater
value than blood from a non-innocent person?
It is pure and untainted
Blood is blood.
Spiritually, blood is life, and thus effected by the life lived
Is this not just another mystical ritual rule which has no real
functional
significance?
Religion is mystical
So, the death of Jesus Christ was far more than a case of
martyrdom
because of refusal to compromise his beliefs?
But the question is, did Jesus come to this world of his own free
choice,
because if he didn't then it wasn't a sacrifice at all.
Whoa, so the animals sacrificed prior to His coming all *volunteered*
?
Remember that in the scriptures it says that "God sent his only son
into
the
world".
He didn't actually volunteer to come here.
So ?
Faith in & appreciation for Christ's ransom sacrifice can bring
us
into a closer relationship with God & put us on the road to
everlasting life. John 17:3.
So then God didn't actually care who died to pay the price just as
long
as
someone did, even if it wasn't anyone who was guilty of the
original
crime.
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
HUH ???
--
Andrew W.
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will
save
you..."
~ Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
.
|
|
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| User: "Terrell D Lewis" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
31 Jul 2004 08:45:42 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 23:23:34 GMT, "Renee" <renee@nospam.com> wrote:
If the wholly babble is to be believed, he was only dead for three days!
Big whooping sacrifice, eh? <MG>
Renee
You try it.
Terrell
.
|
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| User: "Renee" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
31 Jul 2004 08:54:27 PM |
|
|
"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:spiog0lidq23mtf6vke6er19h844rv6t54@4ax.com...
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 23:23:34 GMT, "Renee" <renee@nospam.com> wrote:
If the wholly babble is to be believed, he was only dead for three days!
Big whooping sacrifice, eh? <MG>
Renee
You try it.
Try what, being a phony savior, no thanks, I have my pride!
Renee
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
01 Aug 2004 12:12:20 PM |
|
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Giggles :-)
"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:spiog0lidq23mtf6vke6er19h844rv6t54@4ax.com...
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 23:23:34 GMT, "Renee" <renee@nospam.com> wrote:
If the wholly babble is to be believed, he was only dead for three days!
Big whooping sacrifice, eh? <MG>
Renee
You try it.
Terrell
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
31 Jul 2004 10:55:54 PM |
|
|
Terrell D Lewis wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 23:23:34 GMT, "Renee" <renee@nospam.com> wrote:
If the wholly babble is to be believed, he was only dead for three days!
Big whooping sacrifice, eh? <MG>
Renee
You try it.
Terrell
===>Most humans would WILLINGLY try it, knowing they
would lie there for two days and then rise and live for ever. -- L.
.
|
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
02 Aug 2004 10:49:25 AM |
|
|
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:410C69CA.33D6B36A@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Terrell D Lewis wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 23:23:34 GMT, "Renee" <renee@nospam.com> wrote:
If the wholly babble is to be believed, he was only dead for three
days!
Big whooping sacrifice, eh? <MG>
Renee
You try it.
Terrell
===>Most humans would WILLINGLY try it, knowing they
would lie there for two days and then rise and live for ever. -- L.
Most humans don't know this
.
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| User: "Renee" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
02 Aug 2004 11:55:08 AM |
|
|
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10gsojscf0nab43@corp.supernews.com...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:410C69CA.33D6B36A@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Terrell D Lewis wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 23:23:34 GMT, "Renee" <renee@nospam.com> wrote:
If the wholly babble is to be believed, he was only dead for three
days!
Big whooping sacrifice, eh? <MG>
Renee
You try it.
Terrell
===>Most humans would WILLINGLY try it, knowing they
would lie there for two days and then rise and live for ever. -- L.
Most humans don't know this
Don't know what?
.
|
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
03 Aug 2004 03:18:42 PM |
|
|
"Renee" <renee@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MluPc.234796$Oq2.122756@attbi_s52...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10gsojscf0nab43@corp.supernews.com...
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:410C69CA.33D6B36A@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Terrell D Lewis wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 23:23:34 GMT, "Renee" <renee@nospam.com> wrote:
If the wholly babble is to be believed, he was only dead for three
days!
Big whooping sacrifice, eh? <MG>
Renee
You try it.
Terrell
===>Most humans would WILLINGLY try it, knowing they
would lie there for two days and then rise and live for ever. -- L.
Most humans don't know this
Don't know what?
===>Most humans would WILLINGLY try it, knowing they
would lie there for two days and then rise and live for ever. -- L.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
31 Jul 2004 08:36:42 PM |
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Renee wrote:
"Ira Jamison" <shrimplomaine@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2687231.0407302124.38c504ad@posting.google.com...
Jesus was the only person qualified by the righteous law of God to be
the perfect sacrifice.
And God the Father made Christ for that spacifice purpose. And Christ
was obedient even unto death.
I believe Christ could have rejected the plan of the Father.
If the wholly babble is to be believed, he was only dead for three days!
===>That would be just a tiny fraction of a moment for a divine being
which Christians claim Jesus to have been.
Big whooping sacrifice, eh? <MG>
Renee
===>Hardly any "sacrifice". -- L.
Ira
"Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:<10gdcu67ujmb477@corp.supernews.com>...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10gchfhmo8728cf@corp.supernews.com...
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10g3nvk9bn3mvb5@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew W" <nospaam_ajwerner@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4101a270$0$19298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"MikeH" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:40fd8e09.3167042@news.plus.net...
<snip>
Jesus had lived previously in heaven as a Spirit. To carry out
his
will, God had miraculously transferred the life of his Son to the
womb
of Mary so that he might be born as a human.
§
Because he was God's Son & a perfect human being, his shed blood
has
value to provide deliverance for others. Mark 10:45.
Forgive my ignorance but how is blood from an innocent person of
greater
value than blood from a non-innocent person?
It is pure and untainted
Blood is blood.
Spiritually, blood is life, and thus effected by the life lived
Is this not just another mystical ritual rule which has no real
functional
significance?
Religion is mystical
So, the death of Jesus Christ was far more than a case of
martyrdom
because of refusal to compromise his beliefs?
But the question is, did Jesus come to this world of his own free
choice,
because if he didn't then it wasn't a sacrifice at all.
Whoa, so the animals sacrificed prior to His coming all *volunteered*
?
Remember that in the scriptures it says that "God sent his only son
into
the
world".
He didn't actually volunteer to come here.
So ?
Faith in & appreciation for Christ's ransom sacrifice can bring
us
into a closer relationship with God & put us on the road to
everlasting life. John 17:3.
So then God didn't actually care who died to pay the price just as
long
as
someone did, even if it wasn't anyone who was guilty of the
original
crime.
The whole thing sounds very pagan to me.
HUH ???
--
Andrew W.
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will
save
you..."
~ Jesus. The Gospel of Thomas.
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Was Christ just another Martyr? |
31 Jul 2004 10:39:18 AM |
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Ira Jamison wrote:
Jesus was the only person qualified by the righteous law of God to be
the perfect sacrifice.
===>That is just Pagan B.S.
SEE: Acts 14:13
"Then the priest of Jupiter,
which was before their city,
brought oxen and garlands unto the gates,
and would have done sacrifice with the people."
ALSO:
Psalm 40:6
"Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire;
mine ears hast thou opened:
burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required."
Psalm 51:16
"For thou desirest not sacrifice;
else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering."
Proverbs 21:3
"To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice."
Hosea 6:6
"For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice;
and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings."
Mark 12:33
"And to love him with all the heart,
and with all the understanding, and with all the soul,
and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself,
is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."
etc. -- L.
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