"AGGreen" <aggreen@spam_me_not.net> wrote in message
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"Milan" <mtklima@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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"AGGreen" <aggreen@nospam.net> wrote in message
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"Milan" <mtklima@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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"Pastor Dave" <1news-group-mail1@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> wrote in

message

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On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:53:06 -0500, "AGGreen"
<aggreen@nospam.net> spake thusly:

***Of course Christ is present in the Eucharist. He said so!

That's why I had to quit going to church. Cannibalism is against

principles.

regards
Milan

***An uneducated action and a dumb response. You have not a clue.

since

Christ God said that the bread and wine were His Body and Blood, did

that

indicate that Christ was canabilistic?

Al

Firstly, it is "cannibalistic", not "canabilistic".
Secondly, if the host is body and blood this would suggest that eating

it

would involve a cannibalistic action.
Thirdly, the line is attributed by the authors of the Gospels to some

guy

called Jesus; not to "Christ God" whoever that may be.

***Read John 6:54. I guess Christ God was telling us to be cannibals.

***You deny the Holy Trinity...the Three in One...God the Father, God

Son, and God the Holy Spirit? Wow!

There is no need to deny the "holy trinity"; it is an absurd invention.

bother?

regards
Milan

<parakaleo@technicianheaven.com> wrote in message
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"AGGreen" <aggreen@nospam.net>, posted this little bit of stuff:
you posted in alt.religion.christian :

<parakaleo@technicianheaven.com> wrote in message
news:fl4cn15murui5589vki58or56poipv1tnh@4ax.com...

***Sorry, Pastor, but your statement is a typical protestant denial of

what

Christ said. It is one of the reasons why I rejected protestantism and
embraced the True Faith...the Body of Christ.

If you embraced Roman Catholicism you embraced heresy and manmade
religion, nothing more.

***I did not. I am not Roman Catholic.

If you are Eastern, Western, Russian, or other "orthodox" the same is
true, though to a lesser degree.

***Oh, good grief NO.

You should not bother looking at "protestantism" or "catholicism," but
should look for Jesus in _Christianity_ and the Bible. You will find
the Real Jesus there, not anywhere else.

***The Holy Orthodox Church (which has no affiliation or connection with
Roman Catholicism) is the Body of Christ. Wghat the Church teaches is
Christ's teaching because the Body of Christ is Christ. there is nothing

in

the teaching of the originalo church founded by Christ God at Pentecost
which is contrary to anything written in Holy Scripture.

Are you going to claim that "The Holy Orthodox Church" has no ties
with Rome? That they didn't break from Rome in the 11th century?
That the "Patriarch" isn't trying to "work with" Rome to reunite the
two groups?

***Some in Holy Orthodoxy seek to mend the fences with the RCC. I am not
necessarily one of them. However, today there are absolutely no theological,
dogmatic, liturgical, or sacramental ties with the RCC.

Last I heard, all of those things were true. If I am wrong, please
_cite_ where I am in error and I will check your citations.

***There is no need for citations. there are no ties as noted above with the
RCC.

When Christ God said This
**IS** my Body and This **IS** my Blood" He didn't mean "this is my
symbolic, make-believe body...etc.

He also said "I _AM_" the way and truth and the light."
Does that mean He is a bunch of blacktop, a philosophical idea, and a
bunch of radiation?

***You are mixing apples and oranges and coming up with a heretical new
juice. "I AM" does not contradict Christ's statement that the Bread and

Wine

are His Body and Prescious Blood.

And your claims do not change that "being" His Body and Blood from
what the Bible shows them to be, His Body and Blood
_in_a_metaphorical_sense_.

***I claim nothing. Christ, through His Holy Body, the Church, claims all.

And all that is necessary for an understanding of the True Faith were
settled in the seven Ecumenical Councils.

They do not become fingers, toes, skin,

flesh, and red, white corpusles mixed with serum.

***No one has claimed this. The change of bread and wine into His Holy Body
and Prescious Blood is accomplished by the Holy Spirit who accomplishes all
during the Divine Liturgy. How this change takes place is a mystical
occurrence that mere man cannot comprehend let alone explain. That it
happens is accepted by faith, upheld by the Holy Spirit. Nonetheless, the
physical Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is, as he taught, real.

In other words, He

_is_ there, but not physically;

***Not so. Your belief is "late-breaking" and has no roots in the ancient
Church that Christ founded at Pentecost.

He is there _spiritually_ just as He

is here at my desk spiritually as well.

No, you are trying to make a metaphor into something it is not.

***O, so Christ's words are metaphors to be interpreted only as you deem
fit.

Your religion has to teach you that because it cannot claim to be the
"sole arbitor of what Jesus meant" if it does not.

***Holy Orthodoxy is not MY religion. It is the Church which He and He alone
(not man) created.

No, it is clear _from_ _the_ _language_ _of_ _scripture_ that Jesus is
_not_ talking about body parts and corpusles. He is speaking in a
metaphore. The language demands it.

***Only in your mind to justify your rejection of what Christ instituted.

Sorry, the Body of Christ, The Church, is Chriost's sole arbitor of
what He meant by his sayings.

The Church has ALWAYS interpreted Christ's
words at the institution of the Eucharist to mean EXACTLY what He
said...nothing more, nothing less.

At least since the 11th century when the orthodox broke off from Rome.

***Obviously you have not read the two articles on the Great Schism I posted
in this thread. The Roman Patriarchate went its own way in 1054 A.D. when it
excommunicated the remaining Eastern Patriarchates (of the One Holy Catholic
and Apostolic Church).

Christ's Holy Body, the Holy Orthodox
Church, has always believed Christ meant, literally, what He said.

Your

interpretation is a late-breaking non-development in the

bastardization

of who and what Christ God is. However, be at peace.

You say we "bastardize" Christ's communion, then you are stupid enough
and hypocritical enough to say, "be at peace?"

***Be at peace in your heresy.

I pity your thinking, Al. Christ's body, His church (which
encompasses ALL Christians,

***No, it does not. There are more than 30,000 protestant denominations,
cults, associations, organizations, etc. throughout the world. But,

Christ

founded but ONE Church, not 30,000.

We have (as I count them) 12 denominations of American money. Does
that make the $1.00 bill any less "American money" than a $100.00 bill
is "American money?"

And the 30,000 "denominations" is a made-up number, not an actual
_counted_ number, made up by people like your Orthodox religion.

***Actually, the 30,000 denominations of protestantism is a result of a
United Nations study a few years ago. the study noted that the proliferation
of new cults, sects, and denominations grows at 10-12 new ones every day.
Sad...truly sad.

There are no actual counts to take the number from, and there is no
_honest_ way to make such a count since "Baptist" includes hundreds of
individual congregations, some of which are associated with each other
and others of which are not. Unless you have a magic wand, all you or
anyone else can _honestly_do_ is guess. And the Romans and the
Orthodox have a great vested interest in "guessing high."

***Again, it was the U.N., not the Holy Church.

not just one or two groups of them) has

known that the physical bodyparts are NOT there for all the 2,000
years or so that Christ's church has been around.

The Romans and Orthodox have not been around for 2,000 years or so
either. The Romans began about the end of the third century, and the
Orthodox about the 11th century.

***The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church has existed since Christ
founded her at Pentecost. While the term "Orthodox" gained wide use after
the Great Schism, the term Orthodox East (referring to those patriarchates
in the east...Jerusalem, Constantinople, Alexandria, and Antioch) dates to
the early fifth century, the era when the seeds for the Great Schism were
being sown by Rome.

***Orthodoxy acknowledges the existence of other religious belief systems
claiming to be Christian. But Christ founded but ONE Church...one way of
thinking, one way of salvation.

Christians have _all_ been members of Christ's church from the
beginning through now, and forever in the future. Not a "religious
organization," but a church.

***There is only ONE church faithful to the teachings of Christ and the Holy
Apostles. It ain't Methodist, or Pentecostal, or Evangelical, or Lutheran,
or Roman Catholic. Take a guess which one is the only one so faithful.

Jesus did _not_ found a "religious organization," but a gathering of
followers.

***Christ God had followers, first disciples, then Apostles. But He DID
found the Church, at Pentecost, in Jerusalem, in 33 A.D.

We exist under _many_ organizational names, but we are

_all_ His followers, parts of His church.

***Only one Church has the True Faith, the True Belief, the True
Understanding of Christ's dual nature. All others, including Rome, are
heretical deviations.

ONLY Holy Orthodoxy has preserved untainted
and unchanged that which Christ founded and the Holy Apostles took and
taught in many lands.

Sorry Al, but you are wrong. The so-called "orthodox church" is a
religious organization. It is _not_ like Jesus' original church.

***Nice try. But it won't hold water.

The original did not have
Icons

***The first icon, of the Theotokos, was written by St. Luke the Apostle.

Priests (Everyone who is a Christian is a member of the Royal
Priesthood according to the Bible)

***Uh-oh. Mormonism!! :-(

Mariology

***What is Mariology? It's a Roman Catholic term, I believe. Quite foreign
to the Orthodox.

Or any of the ceremonial garbage that is in the Roman/Orthodox system.

***Obviously, you have no knowledge of the development of liturgical
practices from the first century. You should not make such statements unless
you have studied liturgics.

You won't find _any_ of it in the Bible or in the first century
writings.

***How much of the Holy Fathers of the Church have you read? How about the
complete works of St. John Chrysostom? St. Ambrose of Milan? St. Basil the
Great. St. Issac the Syrian? St. Clement of Alexandria?