| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
18 Aug 2007 10:35:19 AM |
| Object: |
Was There A Cloud Coming? |
Original Contemporary Testimonies:
Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian
"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the
one-and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,]
a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared;
I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were
it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events
that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve
such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops
of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among
the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that
feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by
night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom
was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that,
in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great
noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great
multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars,
VI-V-3).
A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be
believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine,
be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched
for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters
that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset
chariots were seen in the air over the whole country,
and armed battalions speeding through the clouds
and encircling the cities.
Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian
"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the
offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful
by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the
enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision
of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden
lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple.
The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman
voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it,
and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their
departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation
upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient
scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the
very time when the Orient would triumph and from
Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world."
(Histories, Book 5, v. 13).
--
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Jude Alexander" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
18 Aug 2007 03:23:08 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:i54ec35kpt5le5nk4sfkc7t86je3rvi3qh@4ax.com...
Original Contemporary Testimonies:
Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian
"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the
one-and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,]
a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared;
I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were
it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events
that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve
such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops
of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among
the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that
feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by
night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom
was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that,
in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great
noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great
multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars,
VI-V-3).
A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be
believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine,
be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched
for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters
that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset
chariots were seen in the air over the whole country,
and armed battalions speeding through the clouds
and encircling the cities.
Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian
"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the
offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful
by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the
enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision
of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden
lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple.
The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman
voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it,
and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their
departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation
upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient
scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the
very time when the Orient would triumph and from
Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world."
(Histories, Book 5, v. 13).
It's disingenious to accept Josephus as witness to "gospel" (or anybody else
for that matter) so to speak when he agrees with what you believe and reject
his words when they don't.
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
18 Aug 2007 02:13:41 PM |
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"Pastor Knave" < SATAN @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:i54ec35kpt5le5nk4sfkc7t86je3rvi3qh@4ax.com...
Original Contemporary Testimonies:
Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian
"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the
one-and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,]
a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared;
I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were
it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events
that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve
such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops
of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among
the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that
feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by
night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom
was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that,
in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great
noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great
multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars,
VI-V-3).
Pastor Knave's Bible!
According to my Bible they'd been there for years.
2 Kings 6:17
And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he
may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and,
behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about
Elisha.
And they were leaving, until the times of the gentiles had passed:
"Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the
Gentiles be fulfilled" (Luke 21:24).
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "®andy" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
18 Aug 2007 11:04:24 AM |
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Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he
was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went
up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up
into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go
into heaven.
Jesus ascended bodily, visibly, and literally, up into literal
clouds. He will return in like manner.
©2007 pulpitfire.net, pulpitfire.org, pulpitfire.com
--
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself
up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ. †2 Corinthians 10:5
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).
.
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| User: "Spiritman" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
19 Aug 2007 04:06:08 AM |
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On Aug 18, 9:04 am, =AEandy <pulpitf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he
was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went
up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up
into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go
into heaven.
Jesus ascended bodily, visibly, and literally, up into literal
clouds. He will return in like manner. =20
Hello everyone.
I think many spend too much time looking up at the sky. If you were
standing looking up at the sky as Jesus dissappeared out of sight, and
an angel came and said "why stand ye gazing at the sky", would you
think the angel wanted you to continue gazing at the sky? As I see it,
the angel was saying, "why stand ye looking at the sky?", "you
shouldn't be". Or in the same manner, "Going into heaven", "out of
sight", "coming from heaven", "out of sight". In my search for truth
within the scriptures concerning this matter, I go to the source and
consider everything Jesus said about His coming, after all, it is HIS.
Jesus said the same thing as the angel in many ways. Jesus said He
would not be seen "here or there", that they would long to see one of
His days, but they would not see His day, right?
*[Luke 17:20-24] And when he (JESUS) was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The
kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo
here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
*And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall
desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see
it. And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after
them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of
the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven;
so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
JESUS SAID HE WOULD NOT BE HERE OR THERE, AND "HERE OR THERE" IS
ANYWHERE. That includes a little chair somewhere in Jerusalem. I
reckon His throne of glory is not a little chair here or there. As the
lightning shines from one end of heaven to the other, so too is his
throne of glory, not here or there, but everywhere!
How can this be? Jesus spoke more of this to his disciples saying...
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye
see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in
me, and I in you.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is
that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and
I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that
thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will
keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto
him,
and make our abode with him.
You are his Temple. His throne of glory is within you, and all around
you!
As I began to see this a couple years ago, I had this most excellent
dream! In the dream, to make a long story short, I seen Jesus, He
asked me a question, and I guess I answered right, because everyone
around us broke out in applause! And after the question, He said to me
"Isn't it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you never even
knew".
People keep saying "Come Jesus, Come Jesus"...And this is His reply:
"Isnt it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you never even
knew".
__
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
19 Aug 2007 01:05:09 PM |
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"Evilspiritman" <Evilspiritman@q.com> wrote in message
news:1187514368.474675.160060@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 18, 9:04 am, ®andy <pulpitf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he
was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went
up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up
into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go
into heaven.
Jesus ascended bodily, visibly, and literally, up into literal
clouds. He will return in like manner.
Hello everyone.
Bye,
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: " ::: trash of ACC :::" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
19 Aug 2007 07:25:01 AM |
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In news:1187514368.474675.160060@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Spiritman <Spiritman@q.com> typed:
On Aug 18, 9:04 am, ®andy <pulpitf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he
was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went
up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up
into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go
into heaven.
Jesus ascended bodily, visibly, and literally, up into literal
clouds. He will return in like manner.
Hello everyone.
I think many spend too much time looking up at the sky. If you were
standing looking up at the sky as Jesus dissappeared out of sight, and
an angel came and said "why stand ye gazing at the sky", would you
think the angel wanted you to continue gazing at the sky? As I see it,
the angel was saying, "why stand ye looking at the sky?", "you
shouldn't be". Or in the same manner, "Going into heaven", "out of
sight", "coming from heaven", "out of sight". In my search for truth
within the scriptures concerning this matter, I go to the source and
consider everything Jesus said about His coming, after all, it is HIS.
Jesus said the same thing as the angel in many ways. Jesus said He
would not be seen "here or there", that they would long to see one of
His days, but they would not see His day, right?
Not really... You forget that the Angel said, "You men of Galilee, why
do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received up from
you into the sky *will come back in the same way as you saw him going
into the sky*." (Acts 1:11 WEB)
*[Luke 17:20-24] And when he (JESUS) was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The
kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo
here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
*And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall
desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see
it. And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after
them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of
the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven;
so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
JESUS SAID HE WOULD NOT BE HERE OR THERE, AND "HERE OR THERE" IS
ANYWHERE.
Correct, because He will come back the same way he wento into Heaven:
"This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come back
in the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11 WEB)
That includes a little chair somewhere in Jerusalem. I
reckon His throne of glory is not a little chair here or there. As the
lightning shines from one end of heaven to the other, so too is his
throne of glory, not here or there, but everywhere!
This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come back in
the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11 WEB)
How can this be? Jesus spoke more of this to his disciples saying...
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye
see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in
me, and I in you.
Yes, that is what happens with *all* Christian believers - Jesus is *in*
them and alive. That is nothing new for believers.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is
that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and
I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that
thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will
keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto
him, and make our abode with him.
Yes, but it does not mean that the end of the world came in 70 A.D.
You are his Temple. His throne of glory is within you, and all around
you!
Amen!
As I began to see this a couple years ago, I had this most excellent
dream! In the dream, to make a long story short, I seen Jesus, He
asked me a question, and I guess I answered right, because everyone
around us broke out in applause! And after the question, He said to me
"Isn't it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you never even
knew".
People keep saying "Come Jesus, Come Jesus"...And this is His reply:
"Isnt it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you never even
knew".
Jesus in me does not equate to the fact that He will not come back as
promised, the way He disappeared in the sky,
::: trash :::
.
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| User: "Abrams1117" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
19 Aug 2007 11:36:05 AM |
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On Aug 19, 5:25 am, " ::: trash of ACC :::" <veral...@lycos.com>
wrote:
Innews:1187514368.474675.160060@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Spiritman <Spirit...@q.com> typed:
On Aug 18, 9:04 am, =AEandy <pulpitf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he
was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went
up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up
into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go
into heaven.
Jesus ascended bodily, visibly, and literally, up into literal
clouds. He will return in like manner.
Hello everyone.
I think many spend too much time looking up at the sky. If you were
standing looking up at the sky as Jesus dissappeared out of sight, and
an angel came and said "why stand ye gazing at the sky", would you
think the angel wanted you to continue gazing at the sky? As I see it,
the angel was saying, "why stand ye looking at the sky?", "you
shouldn't be". Or in the same manner, "Going into heaven", "out of
sight", "coming from heaven", "out of sight". In my search for truth
within the scriptures concerning this matter, I go to the source and
consider everything Jesus said about His coming, after all, it is HIS.
Jesus said the same thing as the angel in many ways. Jesus said He
would not be seen "here or there", that they would long to see one of
His days, but they would not see His day, right?
Not really... You forget that the Angel said, "You men of Galilee, why
do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received up from
you into the sky *will come back in the same way as you saw him going
into the sky*." (Acts 1:11 WEB)
*[Luke 17:20-24] And when he (JESUS) was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The
kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo
here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
*And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall
desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see
it. And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after
them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of
the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven;
so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
JESUS SAID HE WOULD NOT BE HERE OR THERE, AND "HERE OR THERE" IS
ANYWHERE.
Correct, because He will come back the same way he wento into Heaven:
"This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come back
in the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11 WEB)
That includes a little chair somewhere in Jerusalem. I
reckon His throne of glory is not a little chair here or there. As the
lightning shines from one end of heaven to the other, so too is his
throne of glory, not here or there, but everywhere!
This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come back in
the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11 WEB)
How can this be? Jesus spoke more of this to his disciples saying...
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye
see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in
me, and I in you.
Yes, that is what happens with *all* Christian believers - Jesus is *in*
them and alive. That is nothing new for believers.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is
that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and
I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that
thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will
keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto
him, and make our abode with him.
Yes, but it does not mean that the end of the world came in 70 A.D.
You are his Temple. His throne of glory is within you, and all around
you!
Amen!
As I began to see this a couple years ago, I had this most excellent
dream! In the dream, to make a long story short, I seen Jesus, He
asked me a question, and I guess I answered right, because everyone
around us broke out in applause! And after the question, He said to me
"Isn't it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you never even
knew".
People keep saying "Come Jesus, Come Jesus"...And this is His reply:
"Isnt it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you never even
knew".
Jesus in me does not equate to the fact that He will not come back as
promised, the way He disappeared in the sky,
::: little child :::
True.
In the same way the preterists insist Zechariah 14 is not about the
beginning of a thousand year reign because it isn't mentioned in this
chapter. It's a foolish concept because there is not a single teaching
that is found in every chapter.
Here is another example of how they think.
Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided
in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the
city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished;
and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of
the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as
when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which
is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave
in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there
shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove
toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Verse 4 says, 'And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of
Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east'.
Some preterists insist that Jesus Christ would have to stand on both
sides of the mount as it divides to fulfill this prophecy!
Yet, verse 4 says he will stand on the mount 'in that day'. To
fulfill the prophecy he only has to stand on it 'in that day'.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.
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| User: " ::: trash of ACC :::" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
19 Aug 2007 07:50:52 PM |
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In news:1187541365.391812.212480@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com,
Abrams1117 <John1117@peoplepc.com> typed:
On Aug 19, 5:25 am, " ::: trash of ACC :::" <veral...@lycos.com>
wrote:
Innews:1187514368.474675.160060@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Spiritman <Spirit...@q.com> typed:
On Aug 18, 9:04 am, ®andy <pulpitf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he
was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went
up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up
into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go
into heaven.
Jesus ascended bodily, visibly, and literally, up into literal
clouds. He will return in like manner.
Hello everyone.
I think many spend too much time looking up at the sky. If you were
standing looking up at the sky as Jesus dissappeared out of sight,
and an angel came and said "why stand ye gazing at the sky", would
you think the angel wanted you to continue gazing at the sky? As I
see it, the angel was saying, "why stand ye looking at the sky?",
"you shouldn't be". Or in the same manner, "Going into heaven",
"out of sight", "coming from heaven", "out of sight". In my search
for truth within the scriptures concerning this matter, I go to the
source and consider everything Jesus said about His coming, after
all, it is HIS. Jesus said the same thing as the angel in many
ways. Jesus said He would not be seen "here or there", that they
would long to see one of His days, but they would not see His day,
right?
Not really... You forget that the Angel said, "You men of Galilee,
why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received
up from you into the sky *will come back in the same way as you saw
him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11 WEB)
*[Luke 17:20-24] And when he (JESUS) was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The
kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say,
Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within
you. *And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye
shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall
not see it. And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go
not after them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that
lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other
part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
JESUS SAID HE WOULD NOT BE HERE OR THERE, AND "HERE OR THERE" IS
ANYWHERE.
Correct, because He will come back the same way he wento into Heaven:
"This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come
back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11
WEB)
That includes a little chair somewhere in Jerusalem. I
reckon His throne of glory is not a little chair here or there. As
the lightning shines from one end of heaven to the other, so too is
his throne of glory, not here or there, but everywhere!
This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come
back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11
WEB)
How can this be? Jesus spoke more of this to his disciples saying...
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye
see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye
in me, and I in you.
Yes, that is what happens with *all* Christian believers - Jesus is
*in* them and alive. That is nothing new for believers.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is
that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father,
and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that
thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he
will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come
unto him, and make our abode with him.
Yes, but it does not mean that the end of the world came in 70 A.D.
You are his Temple. His throne of glory is within you, and all
around you!
Amen!
As I began to see this a couple years ago, I had this most excellent
dream! In the dream, to make a long story short, I seen Jesus, He
asked me a question, and I guess I answered right, because everyone
around us broke out in applause! And after the question, He said to
me "Isn't it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you
never even knew".
People keep saying "Come Jesus, Come Jesus"...And this is His reply:
"Isnt it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you never
even knew".
Jesus in me does not equate to the fact that He will not come back as
promised, the way He disappeared in the sky,
::: little child :::
Thanks! You are very kind.
True.
In the same way the preterists insist Zechariah 14 is not about the
beginning of a thousand year reign because it isn't mentioned in this
chapter. It's a foolish concept because there is not a single teaching
that is found in every chapter.
Yes, it is not necessary that every detail is mentioned again and again.
Here is another example of how they think.
Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided
in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the
city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished;
and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of
the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as
when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which
is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave
in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there
shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove
toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Verse 4 says, 'And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of
Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east'.
Some preterists insist that Jesus Christ would have to stand on both
sides of the mount as it divides to fulfill this prophecy!
On both sides? That is nonsense.
Yet, verse 4 says he will stand on the mount 'in that day'. To
fulfill the prophecy he only has to stand on it 'in that day'.
Yes, and I think the context makes this very clear, as the LORD has a
reason to do so, namely to split up the mount of Olives in the middle.
If one wants to split a hard thing up like a coconut, for example, one
has to hit right at one spot where it cracks, not on two. They often
really make no sense and have to change Scripture to their liking so it
fits to the rest of this false approach of Bible interpretation. Why do
they not simply read the text? Why do they have to write novels just to
interpret a very simple thing that would not really need much
explanation?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Abrams1117" |
|
| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
19 Aug 2007 09:59:29 PM |
|
|
On Aug 19, 5:50 pm, " ::: trash of ACC :::" <veral...@lycos.com>
wrote:
Innews:1187541365.391812.212480@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com,
Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> typed:
On Aug 19, 5:25 am, " ::: trash of ACC :::" <veral...@lycos.com>
wrote:
Innews:1187514368.474675.160060@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Spiritman <Spirit...@q.com> typed:
On Aug 18, 9:04 am, =AEandy <pulpitf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he
was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went
up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up
into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go
into heaven.
Jesus ascended bodily, visibly, and literally, up into literal
clouds. He will return in like manner.
Hello everyone.
I think many spend too much time looking up at the sky. If you were
standing looking up at the sky as Jesus dissappeared out of sight,
and an angel came and said "why stand ye gazing at the sky", would
you think the angel wanted you to continue gazing at the sky? As I
see it, the angel was saying, "why stand ye looking at the sky?",
"you shouldn't be". Or in the same manner, "Going into heaven",
"out of sight", "coming from heaven", "out of sight". In my search
for truth within the scriptures concerning this matter, I go to the
source and consider everything Jesus said about His coming, after
all, it is HIS. Jesus said the same thing as the angel in many
ways. Jesus said He would not be seen "here or there", that they
would long to see one of His days, but they would not see His day,
right?
Not really... You forget that the Angel said, "You men of Galilee,
why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received
up from you into the sky *will come back in the same way as you saw
him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11 WEB)
*[Luke 17:20-24] And when he (JESUS) was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The
kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say,
Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within
you. *And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye
shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall
not see it. And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go
not after them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that
lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other
part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
JESUS SAID HE WOULD NOT BE HERE OR THERE, AND "HERE OR THERE" IS
ANYWHERE.
Correct, because He will come back the same way he wento into Heaven:
"This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come
back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11
WEB)
That includes a little chair somewhere in Jerusalem. I
reckon His throne of glory is not a little chair here or there. As
the lightning shines from one end of heaven to the other, so too is
his throne of glory, not here or there, but everywhere!
This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come
back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11
WEB)
How can this be? Jesus spoke more of this to his disciples saying...
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye
see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye
in me, and I in you.
Yes, that is what happens with *all* Christian believers - Jesus is
*in* them and alive. That is nothing new for believers.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is
that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father,
and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that
thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he
will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come
unto him, and make our abode with him.
Yes, but it does not mean that the end of the world came in 70 A.D.
You are his Temple. His throne of glory is within you, and all
around you!
Amen!
As I began to see this a couple years ago, I had this most excellent
dream! In the dream, to make a long story short, I seen Jesus, He
asked me a question, and I guess I answered right, because everyone
around us broke out in applause! And after the question, He said to
me "Isn't it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you
never even knew".
People keep saying "Come Jesus, Come Jesus"...And this is His reply:
"Isnt it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you never
even knew".
Jesus in me does not equate to the fact that He will not come back as
promised, the way He disappeared in the sky,
::: little child :::
Thanks! You are very kind.
:)
True.
In the same way the preterists insist Zechariah 14 is not about the
beginning of a thousand year reign because it isn't mentioned in this
chapter. It's a foolish concept because there is not a single teaching
that is found in every chapter.
Yes, it is not necessary that every detail is mentioned again and again.
Here is another example of how they think.
Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided
in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the
city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished;
and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of
the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as
when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which
is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave
in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there
shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove
toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Verse 4 says, 'And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of
Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east'.
Some preterists insist that Jesus Christ would have to stand on both
sides of the mount as it divides to fulfill this prophecy!
On both sides? That is nonsense.
That's what our resident preterist says over and over. Just search for
'gumby'.
I don't know how he lives with himself - just typing THAT felt wrong.
And he's the one that says it over and over.
Yet, verse 4 says he will stand on the mount 'in that day'. To
fulfill the prophecy he only has to stand on it 'in that day'.
Yes, and I think the context makes this very clear, as the LORD has a
reason to do so, namely to split up the mount of Olives in the middle.
If one wants to split a hard thing up like a coconut, for example, one
has to hit right at one spot where it cracks, not on two. They often
really make no sense and have to change Scripture to their liking so it
fits to the rest of this false approach of Bible interpretation. Why do
they not simply read the text? Why do they have to write novels just to
interpret a very simple thing that would not really need much
explanation?- Hide quoted text -
If they just read the text we would have lions and lambs living
together, a pure language for everyone, water flowing from Jerusalem
healing the fish in the sea, the blind seeing, the deaf hearing , a
resurrected King David ruling Israel, Jesus Christ ruling on Earth, no
more wars, etc; and preterist can't have any of that since everything
was fulfilled in A.D 70. So, healing of the fish in the sea means....I
forget...maybe a preterist can answer that one?
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.
|
|
|
| User: " ::: trash of ACC :::" |
|
| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
20 Aug 2007 09:52:38 PM |
|
|
In news:1187578769.413313.56000@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
Abrams1117 <John1117@peoplepc.com> typed:
On Aug 19, 5:50 pm, " ::: trash of ACC :::" <veral...@lycos.com>
wrote:
Innews:1187541365.391812.212480@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com,
Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> typed:
On Aug 19, 5:25 am, " ::: trash of ACC :::" <veral...@lycos.com>
wrote:
Innews:1187514368.474675.160060@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Spiritman <Spirit...@q.com> typed:
On Aug 18, 9:04 am, ®andy <pulpitf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he
was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went
up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up
into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go
into heaven.
Jesus ascended bodily, visibly, and literally, up into literal
clouds. He will return in like manner.
Hello everyone.
I think many spend too much time looking up at the sky. If you
were standing looking up at the sky as Jesus dissappeared out of
sight, and an angel came and said "why stand ye gazing at the
sky", would you think the angel wanted you to continue gazing at
the sky? As I see it, the angel was saying, "why stand ye looking
at the sky?", "you shouldn't be". Or in the same manner, "Going
into heaven", "out of sight", "coming from heaven", "out of
sight". In my search for truth within the scriptures concerning
this matter, I go to the source and consider everything Jesus
said about His coming, after all, it is HIS. Jesus said the same
thing as the angel in many ways. Jesus said He would not be seen
"here or there", that they would long to see one of His days, but
they would not see His day, right?
Not really... You forget that the Angel said, "You men of Galilee,
why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received
up from you into the sky *will come back in the same way as you saw
him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11 WEB)
*[Luke 17:20-24] And when he (JESUS) was demanded of the
Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them
and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither
shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom
of God is within you. *And he said unto the disciples, The days
will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son
of man, and ye shall not see it. And they shall say to you, See
here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. For as
the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven,
shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son
of man be in his day.
JESUS SAID HE WOULD NOT BE HERE OR THERE, AND "HERE OR THERE" IS
ANYWHERE.
Correct, because He will come back the same way he wento into
Heaven:
"This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come
back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts
1:11 WEB)
That includes a little chair somewhere in Jerusalem. I
reckon His throne of glory is not a little chair here or there. As
the lightning shines from one end of heaven to the other, so too
is his throne of glory, not here or there, but everywhere!
This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come
back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts
1:11 WEB)
How can this be? Jesus spoke more of this to his disciples
saying...
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but
ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye
in me, and I in you.
Yes, that is what happens with *all* Christian believers - Jesus is
*in* them and alive. That is nothing new for believers.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is
that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father,
and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that
thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he
will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come
unto him, and make our abode with him.
Yes, but it does not mean that the end of the world came in 70 A.D.
You are his Temple. His throne of glory is within you, and all
around you!
Amen!
As I began to see this a couple years ago, I had this most
excellent dream! In the dream, to make a long story short, I seen
Jesus, He asked me a question, and I guess I answered right,
because everyone around us broke out in applause! And after the
question, He said to me "Isn't it amazing! I was within you the
whole time, and you never even knew".
People keep saying "Come Jesus, Come Jesus"...And this is His
reply: "Isnt it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you
never even knew".
Jesus in me does not equate to the fact that He will not come back
as promised, the way He disappeared in the sky,
::: little child :::
Thanks! You are very kind.
:)
True.
In the same way the preterists insist Zechariah 14 is not about the
beginning of a thousand year reign because it isn't mentioned in
this chapter. It's a foolish concept because there is not a single
teaching that is found in every chapter.
Yes, it is not necessary that every detail is mentioned again and
again.
Here is another example of how they think.
Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided
in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the
city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished;
and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue
of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as
when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives
shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the
west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the
mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the
south.
Verse 4 says, 'And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount
of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east'.
Some preterists insist that Jesus Christ would have to stand on
both sides of the mount as it divides to fulfill this prophecy!
On both sides? That is nonsense.
That's what our resident preterist says over and over. Just search for
'gumby'.
I don't know how he lives with himself - just typing THAT felt wrong.
And he's the one that says it over and over.
It must be an interesting world to live in such a confusion. Everything
might be a surprise, especially if things turn out real that were
assumed to be science fiction.
Yet, verse 4 says he will stand on the mount 'in that day'. To
fulfill the prophecy he only has to stand on it 'in that day'.
Yes, and I think the context makes this very clear, as the LORD has a
reason to do so, namely to split up the mount of Olives in the
middle. If one wants to split a hard thing up like a coconut, for
example, one has to hit right at one spot where it cracks, not on
two. They often really make no sense and have to change Scripture to
their liking so it fits to the rest of this false approach of Bible
interpretation. Why do they not simply read the text? Why do they
have to write novels just to interpret a very simple thing that
would not really need much explanation?- Hide quoted text -
If they just read the text we would have lions and lambs living
together, a pure language for everyone, water flowing from Jerusalem
healing the fish in the sea, the blind seeing, the deaf hearing , a
resurrected King David ruling Israel, Jesus Christ ruling on Earth, no
more wars, etc; and preterist can't have any of that since everything
was fulfilled in A.D 70. So, healing of the fish in the sea means....I
forget...maybe a preterist can answer that one?
Maybe. :-D
The lions and the lamb living together - how much I am longing for this
to come true. And sometimes, when I see the beauty there is in this
world already. I wonder how much more beautiful Heaven must be! I cannot
understand how preterists can assume that this here might be the state
of a redeemed world, neither of a destroyed world.
But the more I have read of them, I assume that they confuse their
Spiritual birth with something else... There must be an important
misunderstanding, but I have not found out where it is exactly.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Abrams1117" |
|
| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
21 Aug 2007 12:08:50 AM |
|
|
On Aug 20, 7:52 pm, " ::: trash of ACC :::" <veral...@lycos.com>
wrote:
Innews:1187578769.413313.56000@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> typed:
On Aug 19, 5:50 pm, " ::: trash of ACC :::" <veral...@lycos.com>
wrote:
Innews:1187541365.391812.212480@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com,
Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> typed:
On Aug 19, 5:25 am, " ::: trash of ACC :::" <veral...@lycos.com>
wrote:
Innews:1187514368.474675.160060@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Spiritman <Spirit...@q.com> typed:
On Aug 18, 9:04 am, =AEandy <pulpitf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he
was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went
up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up
into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go
into heaven.
Jesus ascended bodily, visibly, and literally, up into literal
clouds. He will return in like manner.
Hello everyone.
I think many spend too much time looking up at the sky. If you
were standing looking up at the sky as Jesus dissappeared out of
sight, and an angel came and said "why stand ye gazing at the
sky", would you think the angel wanted you to continue gazing at
the sky? As I see it, the angel was saying, "why stand ye looking
at the sky?", "you shouldn't be". Or in the same manner, "Going
into heaven", "out of sight", "coming from heaven", "out of
sight". In my search for truth within the scriptures concerning
this matter, I go to the source and consider everything Jesus
said about His coming, after all, it is HIS. Jesus said the same
thing as the angel in many ways. Jesus said He would not be seen
"here or there", that they would long to see one of His days, but
they would not see His day, right?
Not really... You forget that the Angel said, "You men of Galilee,
why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received
up from you into the sky *will come back in the same way as you saw
him going into the sky*." (Acts 1:11 WEB)
*[Luke 17:20-24] And when he (JESUS) was demanded of the
Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them
and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither
shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom
of God is within you. *And he said unto the disciples, The days
will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son
of man, and ye shall not see it. And they shall say to you, See
here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. For as
the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven,
shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son
of man be in his day.
JESUS SAID HE WOULD NOT BE HERE OR THERE, AND "HERE OR THERE" IS
ANYWHERE.
Correct, because He will come back the same way he wento into
Heaven:
"This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come
back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts
1:11 WEB)
That includes a little chair somewhere in Jerusalem. I
reckon His throne of glory is not a little chair here or there. As
the lightning shines from one end of heaven to the other, so too
is his throne of glory, not here or there, but everywhere!
This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky *will come
back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky*." (Acts
1:11 WEB)
How can this be? Jesus spoke more of this to his disciples
saying...
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but
ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye
in me, and I in you.
Yes, that is what happens with *all* Christian believers - Jesus is
*in* them and alive. That is nothing new for believers.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is
that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father,
and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that
thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he
will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come
unto him, and make our abode with him.
Yes, but it does not mean that the end of the world came in 70 A.D.
You are his Temple. His throne of glory is within you, and all
around you!
Amen!
As I began to see this a couple years ago, I had this most
excellent dream! In the dream, to make a long story short, I seen
Jesus, He asked me a question, and I guess I answered right,
because everyone around us broke out in applause! And after the
question, He said to me "Isn't it amazing! I was within you the
whole time, and you never even knew".
People keep saying "Come Jesus, Come Jesus"...And this is His
reply: "Isnt it amazing! I was within you the whole time, and you
never even knew".
Jesus in me does not equate to the fact that He will not come back
as promised, the way He disappeared in the sky,
::: little child :::
Thanks! You are very kind.
:)
True.
In the same way the preterists insist Zechariah 14 is not about the
beginning of a thousand year reign because it isn't mentioned in
this chapter. It's a foolish concept because there is not a single
teaching that is found in every chapter.
Yes, it is not necessary that every detail is mentioned again and
again.
Here is another example of how they think.
Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided
in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the
city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished;
and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue
of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as
when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives
shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the
west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the
mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the
south.
Verse 4 says, 'And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount
of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east'.
Some preterists insist that Jesus Christ would have to stand on
both sides of the mount as it divides to fulfill this prophecy!
On both sides? That is nonsense.
That's what our resident preterist says over and over. Just search for
'gumby'.
I don't know how he lives with himself - just typing THAT felt wrong.
And he's the one that says it over and over.
It must be an interesting world to live in such a confusion. Everything
might be a surprise, especially if things turn out real that were
assumed to be science fiction.
Yet, verse 4 says he will stand on the mount 'in that day'. To
fulfill the prophecy he only has to stand on it 'in that day'.
Yes, and I think the context makes this very clear, as the LORD has a
reason to do so, namely to split up the mount of Olives in the
middle. If one wants to split a hard thing up like a coconut, for
example, one has to hit right at one spot where it cracks, not on
two. They often really make no sense and have to change Scripture to
their liking so it fits to the rest of this false approach of Bible
interpretation. Why do they not simply read the text? Why do they
have to write novels just to interpret a very simple thing that
would not really need much explanation?- Hide quoted text -
If they just read the text we would have lions and lambs living
together, a pure language for everyone, water flowing from Jerusalem
healing the fish in the sea, the blind seeing, the deaf hearing , a
resurrected King David ruling Israel, Jesus Christ ruling on Earth, no
more wars, etc; and preterist can't have any of that since everything
was fulfilled in A.D 70. So, healing of the fish in the sea means....I
forget...maybe a preterist can answer that one?
Maybe. :-D
The lions and the lamb living together - how much I am longing for this
to come true. And sometimes, when I see the beauty there is in this
world already. I wonder how much more beautiful Heaven must be! I cannot
understand how preterists can assume that this here might be the state
of a redeemed world, neither of a destroyed world.
But the more I have read of them, I assume that they confuse their
Spiritual birth with something else... There must be an important
misunderstanding, but I have not found out where it is exactly.- Hide quo=
ted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Hi 'LC',
I would love to see a preterist chronology. I assume they believe the
tribulation ended when Jerusalem fell to the Romans. Scripture says
after the tribulation the sun and moon go dark. Hmmm, I still don't
know how they explain that one.
They waste so much time yelling and complaining it's as if they don't
want you to know what they really believe. Instead of wasting any more
time why don't they just respond with what they believe and why?
I doubt that any two ppl will agree on everything. And you don't see
everyone else fighitng like that. Example, Fred replied I read it
differently than you do. He didn't scream you snipped what I said! You
liar! All of that is worthless. I doubt there is a single question PD
has asked that hasn't been answered. He just DOESN'T LIKE THE ANSWERS.
(Just in case he wants to go nuts over this the posts are archived
they still exist and Ive read some of them about: this generation,
Isaiah 19, and lots more) That's why i do not reply directly to PD
anymore. When you threaten someone it's over the edge. Also, there
must be thousands of words between us that mean absolutely nothing.
Just wasted time and energy.
What I believe and why. It's a very simple concept.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
21 Aug 2007 02:24:43 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:08:50 -0700, Abrams1117
<John1117@peoplepc.com> wrote:
I would love to see a preterist chronology.
Is that why you ignored it every time I showed you one?
They waste so much time yelling and complaining
We aren't the ones complaining. That's what you're doing,
right now. In fact, I just snipped a few paragraphs of your
whining about it. And you do it in many messages, liar.
Yet are too cowardly to respond directly and on point.
I know we're not in your kill file, because you do respond
from time to time, by snipping what we wrote and then
complaining that we never answer you.
And I don't show you any respect, because you don't
deserve any. You lie and play dodge ball, when answered
directly and on point, period.
--
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
20 Aug 2007 08:05:49 AM |
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On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:36:05 -0700, Abrams1117
<John1117@peoplepc.com> wrote:
Jesus in me does not equate to the fact that He will not come back as
promised, the way He disappeared in the sky,
::: little child :::
True.
In the same way the preterists insist Zechariah 14 is not about the
beginning of a thousand year reign because it isn't mentioned in this
chapter. It's a foolish concept because there is not a single teaching
that is found in every chapter.
You're right. It's better to insert it where it's not
mentioned and claim that anyone who disagrees
is wrong.
As for the "Jesus in me" remark, that's just another
way of saying, "I know the Bible does say that He
was out of their sight, but I don't like that part,
so I will say that Jesus in me is telling me that's
not true.".
Here is another example of how they think.
The fact is, you're a coward who cannot respond
point by point and chooses to pretend he is honest.
--
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "®andy" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
20 Aug 2007 10:51:58 AM |
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:05:49 -0400,
in article <m84jc3d9rjrioripgik59n75m0g0d201gs@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
You're right. It's better to insert it where it's not
mentioned and claim that anyone who disagrees
is wrong.
Thanks for admitting what preterism does. You look right at a
passage which clearly teaches the body is the seed which is
sown (1 Cor. 15), and which is transformed and raised from the
dead (Php. 3:21). Then you insert the word "shell", where it
does not occur, as if the body is the "shell" of the seed,
rather than what it said, which is that it is the seed. But
you have to do this, because there was no resurrection of
believer's bodies in A.D. 70, and you love the lie of
preterism more than what the Bible plainly teaches.
At almost every point, preterism looks right at a passage of
Scripture, then confidently assert it means almost the exact
opposite of what it plainly states.
You look right at 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, see that it teaches
the church will be caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds,
then confidently assert there is no rapture of the church, or
that if there were, the clouds into which believers are caught
up could be ground "fog". But you have to boldly lie about
and contradict this plain teaching, because the church was not
caught up in A.D. 70, or any time since, and you love the lie
of preterism more than the plain teaching of God's word.
You do the same thing with Acts 1:9ff, and how it says the
Lord will return in the manner He departed. They saw Him
literally, visibly, and bodily ascend from the ground, up into
the clouds, and were told He would return in the manner they
saw Him depart. But instead of admitting that He will return
visibly, and bodily, from the clouds to the ground, what do
you do? You claim it means He will return invisibly, then
bury your head in Isaiah, where you find a figurative
reference to the Lord riding in the clouds. Then, you insist
that passage in Isaiah must be the absolute controlling
standard for any other reference to the Lord coming in the
clouds. But you have to do things like this, because it's
obvious the Lord did not return in A.D. 70, in the manner He
departed.
Yes, preterism is a bold faced lie, that constantly has to not
only insert ideas into passages which are not there, but labor
to manufacture incremental deviations from what the Bible
plainly teaches, to contend it means a perfect contradiction.
©2007 pulpitfire.net, pulpitfire.org, pulpitfire.com
--
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself
up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ. †2 Corinthians 10:5
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).
.
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| User: "®andy" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
19 Aug 2007 12:48:32 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 02:06:08 -0700,
in article
<1187514368.474675.160060@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Spiritman <Spiritman@q.com> wrote:
*[Luke 17:20-24] And when he (JESUS) was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The
kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo
here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
*And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall
desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see
it. And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after
them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of
the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven;
so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
JESUS SAID HE WOULD NOT BE HERE OR THERE, AND "HERE OR THERE" IS
ANYWHERE. That includes a little chair somewhere in Jerusalem. I
reckon His throne of glory is not a little chair here or there. As the
lightning shines from one end of heaven to the other, so too is his
throne of glory, not here or there, but everywhere!
How can this be?
Run away from Act 1:9 like a coward, you lying preterist.
Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom
of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for,
behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when
ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and
ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not
after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part
under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so
shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of
this generation.
In the context of Luke 17, where He immediately explains to
the disciples what He meant by the phrase "cometh not with
observation", He equates observing God's kingdom with seeing
the "days of the son of man", and Him, personally.
He referred to the present time when they were seeing the days
of the son of man (17:22), to be followed by days when they
would not see one of His days (17:22b - 23, 25), which would
then be followed by "his day", when He would be revealed like
lightening, from one end of heaven to the other (24 ff.).
Thus, He didn't mean the kingdom of God would never come
visibly, but that it would not presently come with the
Pharisees plotting, heretical scrutiny:
1) He gave His answer "when" (aorist tense, indicating at the
point in time) the Pharisees questioned Him. He meant the
kingdom was not, at that time, coming with the Pharisees'
scrutiny. They were looking right at the Son of Man, and were
not seeing one of His days, or admitting He was the King!
2) He used the present tense when He said the kingdom "cometh
not". That doesn't mean the kingdom will not come with
observation, in the future, it means just what the tense
implies, which is that it did not presently, at the time the
Pharisees asked the question, come with their observation and
scrutiny.
3) He immediately contrasts the present time He said the
kingdom would not come with observation, to a future time,
when He uses the future tense to say "Neither shall they say"
(in the future), in His very next statement (Luke 17:21). This
clearly shows that He was referring to the present time the
Pharisees were asking the question, when He said the kingdom
did not presently come with "your" (i.e. the Pharisees')
observation (NIV).
4) The word for "observation" (3907/3906), always refers to
heretical, plotting, scrutiny, in every other occurrence in
the Bible:
Mark 3:2 And they watched <3906> him, whether he would heal
him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
Luke 6:7 And the scribes and Pharisees watched <3906> him,
whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find
an accusation against him.
Luke 14:1 And it came to pass, as he went into the house of
one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day,
that they watched <3906> him.
Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The
kingdom of God cometh not with observation <3907>:
Luke 20:20 And they watched <3906> him, and sent forth spies,
which should feign themselves just men, that they might take
hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the
power and authority of the governor.
Acts 9:24 But their laying await was known of Saul. And they
watched <3906> the gates day and night to kill him.
Galatians 4:10 Ye observe <3906> days, and months, and times,
and years.
Thus, the kind of observation the Pharisees were making, would
NEVER admit that Christ was the King, or that they were
therefore seeing one of the days of the Son of Man, which
Christ then equated with seeing God's kingdom. Seeing the
King, and His coming, IS seeing God's kingdom coming, as
Christ then explained in the following verses of Luke 17.
5) He equates observing God's kingdom with seeing the days of
the son of man, and Him personally.
He equates people in the future, who would claim the kingdom
of God is "Lo here", or "Lo there" (v21), with men saying "See
here", or "See there", in reference to "his day", and His
personal coming (v23-24). He indicated they were seeing the
days of the son of man (17:22), which would be followed by
days when they would not (17:22b - 23, 25), before He would
come again (in "his day") like lightening shining from one end
of the heaven to the other (17:24, 26ff.).
Thus, to see one of the days of the son of man, is to see
God's kingdom coming, and people would see Him coming in "his
day".
©2007 pulpitfire.net, pulpitfire.org, pulpitfire.com
--
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself
up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ. †2 Corinthians 10:5
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).
.
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| User: "Abrams1117" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
19 Aug 2007 03:21:35 PM |
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T-I-L-T
Preterists simply snip or ignore everything you say and then claim
you snipped what they said. They never reply to everything that you
add but scream to high heaven that you didn't respond to what they
said. The funny part is that you can spend the time to look up and add
Scripture while they simple add a long cut and paste made by someone
else. There is no give and take. Only take, condemn, yell, curse and
twist the truth. I still cannot decide if it is the actions of a troll
simply looking to get a rise out of people or if it is true blindness
that is beyond anyone's wild imagination.
When the same thing is posted in response not once, twice or even
fifty times and they simply ignore it they still scream that you did
not respond. You could not make these things up, that's how incredibly
blind they are to what they do. And they expect
you to add it again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and
again, and again and again and again and again and again and again and
again and again - and if you dont' you snipped it BEACUSE YOU CANNOT
ANSWER IT AND YOU ARE A LIAR!
Could there possibly be a stronger definination of dishonesty to be
found anywhere on any forum?
THE 10,000 LAST DAYS OF PRETERISM
Is this past or future?
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the
LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and
shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Past or future?
Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the
house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains,
and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto
it.
Past or future?
Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith G-D, I will pour out
of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall
prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall
dream dreams:
Past or future?
2 Timothy 3:1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
These Past or future?
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath
appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
James 5:3
Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a
witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have
heaped treasure together for the last days.
2 Peter 3:3
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers,
walking after their own lusts,
Preterists love to use the words 'last days' as if it means only a
few '24 hour days'. Even their interpretation has to include over
10,000 of these last days! That's a whole lot of last 'days'.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
20 Aug 2007 08:11:39 AM |
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On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:21:35 -0700, Abrams1117
<John1117@peoplepc.com> wrote:
T-I-L-T
Preterists simply snip or ignore everything you say
Says the man who continually snips what I say to him
and refuses to respond on point and instead, talks to
others, slamming Preterists and ignores every single
fact he's presented with, especially when he knows
he's wrong. And that's why he does this. Because
attacking me is all he has left. Pathetic! (:
Did you really think I was falling for your game of
ignoring what I wrote and then pasting in a bunch
of passages that are an attempt to change the subject
and then claim I am not responding to Scripture and
that you are a worker of God, because you posted
those Scripture? You have to be stupid, to think
that would work! (:
Now let's take a look at what you are again trying
to dodge, which was my Scriptural response to
your claims.
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 09:19:02 -0700, Abrams1117
<John1117@peoplepc.com> wrote:
On Aug 18, 8:35 am, Pastor Dave
<no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
Original Contemporary Testimonies:
Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian
"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the
one-and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,]
a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared;
I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were
it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events
that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve
such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops
of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among
the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that
feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by
night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom
was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that,
in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great
noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great
multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars,
VI-V-3).
A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be
believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine,
be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched
for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters
that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset
chariots were seen in the air over the whole country,
and armed battalions speeding through the clouds
and encircling the cities.
Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian
"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the
offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful
by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the
enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision
of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden
lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple.
The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman
voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it,
and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their
departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation
upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient
scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the
very time when the Orient would triumph and from
Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world."
(Histories, Book 5, v. 13).
I guess T&J just forgot to add this:
Joel 2:10:
The earth shall quake before them; the heavens
shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark,
and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
It's foolish people like you that take these statements
as physically literal and yet, refuse to believe that
Jesus said, "this generation" and meant it!
Furthermore, you quote passages and demand to be
seen as an angel of God for doing so and claim not
to interpret the Bible, yet you interpret these as being
physically literal.
But what does Scripture say, when we compare
Scripture to Scripture?
You know that "comparing" thing, that you claim
I don't do, when in reality, you don't and when
I show you comparison Scriptures, you run away,
just like you will now!
You wonder why I call you stupid! It's because you
keep pulling the same crap, even after being shown
to be wrong!
Let's look at Joel and then what Peter said about it
and let us note which passages Peter included in his
statement and then you can run away and go attack
me in another thread and pretend it's me running
from your amazing, blinding truths, okay idiot?
Acts 2:14-21
14) But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up
his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and
all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you,
and hearken to my words:
15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing
it is but the third hour of the day.
16) But *_THIS IS THAT_* which was spoken by
the prophet Joel;
17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,
I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons
and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men
shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18) And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will
pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall
prophesy:
19) And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs
in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke:
20) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon
into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord
come:
21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call
on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Now notice what Peter included! The Sun going dark,
the Moon turning to blood, etc., etc.! And he included
ALL OF IT IN HIS TIME!!! He said *THIS* *IS *THAT* !!!
No son, he did NOT say, "But just forget about that,
because Abrams will know more than me in 2007 AD,
so just believe and worship whatever he says!".
Now what?!
You should learn about symbolic language!
Oh wait, that's right, I already told you about this and you
decided to ONCE AGAIN ignore it and then pretend to be
honestly responding to what I have said and then to
complain that I'm lying when I say that you don't respond
on point.
The truth is, it is symbolic language. It was also used in
a FULFILLED PROPHECY about Babylon. And note the
same wording here, as Christ used about His return...
Isaiah 13:6-10
6) Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand;
it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7) Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every
man's heart shall melt:
8) And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows
shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as
a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed
one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel
both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land
desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof
out of it.
10) For the stars of heaven and the constellations
thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be
darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall
not cause her light to shine.
Now you and Freddy can call me Satan and then complain
when that I called you a stupid liar, but as far as I'm
concerned, you are a stupid liar! You repeatedly ignore
the Scriptures and then claim it's me doing it, because
I won't keep responding over and over again to your
Scripture twisting, which you do just as you did here,
when you quote the same Scriptures again, after
ignoring the proof that you are wrong about your
interpretation, for the howmanieth time?!? (:
It's one thing to disagree and discuss. It's quote another
to ignore the facts presented and then claim it's the other
person doing it.
The truth is, you don't like these facts and so, you pretend
they don't exist, as if that erases them. (:
Not only that, but you keep complaining about me not
having a discussion with you and yet, what do you do?
You tell me you're not talking to me anymore and then
chase me from thread to thread, posting insults! But
it's okay, no one will say anything to you for calling me
a liar and calling me Satan, et al, because you're a
Futurist! And it's okay if Futurists do it, right?! (:
See thread, "NAMES THAT ARE CALLED".
--
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Feather" |
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| Title: Re: Was There A Cloud Coming? |
18 Aug 2007 10:41:50 AM |
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On Aug 18, 8:35 am, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
Original Contemporary Testimonies:
Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian
"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the
one-and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,]
a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared;
I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were
it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events
that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve
such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops
of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among
the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that
feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by
night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom
was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that,
in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great
noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great
multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars,
VI-V-3).
A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be
believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine,
be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched
for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters
that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset
chariots were see | |
