"Chuck Stamford" <shell__stamford@cox.net> wrote in message
news:k41ji.4443$695.1653@newsfe06.phx...

<gay.highlander@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1183581864.830483.99500@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

On Jul 5, 2:22 am, "Chuck Stamford" <shell__stamf...@cox.net> wrote:

<gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1183543933.189522.20820@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

On Jul 3, 6:08 pm, "Chuck Stamford" <shell__stamf...@cox.net> wrote:

"Pastor Dave" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote in message

news:dg7i839l2t9p9b5kfsef0gccq7hi6m90ei@4ax.com...

Evolutionists say that they aren't claiming that we
came from nothing.

Really? So is evolution as brilliant a theory as they claim?

"...the observable universe COULD HAVE evolved from
an infinitesimal region. It's then tempting to go one
step further and SPECULATE that the entire universe
evolved FROM LITERALLY NOTHING." - Alan Guth
& Steinhartm Scientific Life Americam May 1984, p. 128

Naaa, they're not saying that it all came from nothing,
all by itself! :)

Yeah, they are. And it gets worse - most of them (say they) don't
see
any
religious connotations in the idea.

Chuck Stamford

That's because there is no need for a supernatural being!! Don't you
get that?
Are you all dumb?

Are you smart? If so, then perhaps you'd care to justify your belief
to me
that there really is no need for a Designer of, say, you.

Chuck Stamford- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Don't know what that was all about, since there was no "quoted text" to
hide or show, but I'm sure you have your reasons...

There is no need for a designer - yes it's sad that there is no God
but there it is. Why is there no need?

Well, actually that wasn't the exact question I asked, but close enough I
guess. What I asked you to do is give me your "justification" for
believing the proposition, "There is no need for a Designer to explain
your existence", is true.

Because all biological system

adapt with time. You can see this with bacteria - how they become
immune to anti-biotics. Multiply this by millions of years - it's a
slow process for us to evolve (or rather mammals). Having a designer
is putting a spin on this that is not necessary.

Try analyzing what you've just told me for a moment. I'm supposed to
believe there is no reason to restort to the idea of an intelligent and
powerful Creator, a Designer really, to explain the complex organism I
am...to include *all* of my cognitive faculties, and I'm supposed to do
this because it's true that organisms evolve over time to a changing
environment.

Now is it just me, or did you skip over several premises here to get to
this conclusion? And I was asking you to give me those premises....all
of them....including the ones that work against you: like the fact
Neo-Darwinian theory can't explain the existance of humanity's ability to
reason in the abstract (abstract reasoning having little or nothing to do
with behavior, which is the only thing "visible" to natural selection).
And since the question of whether there is a Designer necessary to
explain that ability in human beings in the absence of the only other
theory standing (Neo-Darwinism) being able to do it is a question
involving abstract reasoning, I think you have yourself a problem trying
to explain that ability in you *without* resort to a Designer.

Chuck Stamford

Don't be silly.
Whatever is so special about, "ability to reason in the abstract"?

Is it any more special than the, "special", gifts that other mammals have
developed in order to advance their species?
Can humans flap their wings and fly?
Can humans swim underwater without equipment?
Get over yourself - you are just another mammal among many others. Mind
you, you do belong to the species that has been responsible for the
extinction of many other species and who look like now ending life on this
planet as we know it.
The microbes will inherit the Earth.
--

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).