What is a Biblical Christian?



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Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "Carl"
Date: 10 Jul 2007 04:21:47 PM
Object: What is a Biblical Christian?
The following is an excellent presentation from Al Martin. I urge you to
read it at your leisure.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
What is a Biblical Christian?
by Albert N. Martin
Al Martin is pastor of Trinity Baptist Church, 116 Horseneck Road,
Montville, New Jersey 07045, U.S.A., and an Associate Editor of the Banner
of Truth magazine. This address was given at the Banner of Truth Youth
Conference 1984.
There are many matters concerning which total ignorance and complete
indifference are neither tragic nor fatal. I believe many of you are
probably totally ignorant of Einstein's theory of relativity and if you were
asked to explain it to someone you would really be in a difficulty. Not only
are you ignorant of Einstein's theory of
relativity, you are probably quite indifferent, and that ignorance and
indifference is neither fatal nor tragic. I am sure there are few of us who
can explain all the processes by which a brown cow eats green grass and
gives white milk. It does not keep you from enjoying the milk. But there are
some things concerning which ignorance and indifference are both tragic and
fatal and one such thing is the Bible's answer to the question I am about to
set before you.
"What is a biblical Christian?" In other words, when does a man or woman,
a boy or girl, have the right to take to himself or herself the name
Christian, according to the Scriptures?
We do not want to make the assumption lightly that you are true
Christians. I want to set before you four strands of the Bible's answer to
that question.
1. ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE A CHRISTIAN IS A PERSON WHO HAS FACED
REALISTICALLY THE PROBLEM OF HIS OWN PERSONAL SIN.
Now one of the many unique things about the Christian faith is this -
unlike most of the religions of the world, Christianity is essentially and
fundamentally a sinner's religion. When the angel announced to Joseph the
approaching birth of Jesus Christ, he did so in these words, "Thou shalt
call his name Jesus, for he shall save his
people from their sins" [Matt. 1:21]. The apostle Paul wrote in 1 Timothy
1.15, "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ
Jesus came into the world to save sinners." He came into the world to save
sinners. The Lord Jesus Christ himself says in Luke 5:31-32, "Those that are
healthy do not need a doctor but those who are sick. I did not come to call
the righteous, but sinners to repentance." And the Christian is one who has
faced realistically this problem of
his own personal sin.
When we turn to the Scripture and seek to take in the whole of its
teaching on the subject of sin, right down to its irreducible minimum,
we find that the Scripture tells us that each one of us has a two-fold
personal problem in relation to sin. On the one hand, we have the
problem of a bad record, and on the other, the problem of a bad heart.
If we start in Genesis 3 and read that tragic account of man's
rebellion against God and his fall into sin, then trace the biblical
doctrine of sin all the way through the Old Testament, and on into the
New, right through to the book of Revelation, we shall see that it is
not over- simplification to say that everything the Bible teaches about
the doctrine of sin can be reduced to those two fundamental categories
- the problem of a bad record and the problem of a bad heart.
What do I mean by "the problem of a bad record?" I am using that
terminology to describe what the Scripture sets before us as the
doctrine of human guilt because of sin. The Scripture tells us plainly
that we obtained a bad record long before we had any personal existence
here upon the earth: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the
world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all
have sinned" [Rom. 5:12]. When did the "all" sin? We all sinned in
Adam. He was appointed by God to represent all the human race and when
he sinned we sinned in him and fell with him in his first
transgression. That is why the apostle writes in 1 Corinthians 15:22,
"As in Adam all die." We passed our age of accountability in the Garden
of Eden and from the moment Adam sinned we were charged with guilt. We
fell in him in his first transgression And we are part of the race that
is under condemnation. Furthermore, the Scripture says, after we come
into being at our own conception and subsequent birth additional guilt
accrues to us for our own personal, individual transgressions. The Word
of God teaches that there is not a just man upon the face of the earth
who does good and does not sin [Eccles. 7:20], and every single sin
incurs additional guilt. Our record in heaven is a marred record.
Almighty God measures the totality of our human experience from the
moment of our birth by a standard which is absolutely inflexible; a
standard that touches not only our external needs but also our thoughts
and the very motions and intentions of our hearts; so much so, that the
Lord Jesus said that the stirring of unjust anger is the very essence
of murder, the look with the intention to lust is adultery. And God is
keeping "a detailed record."
That record is among "the books" which will be opened in the day of
judgement [Rev. 20:12]. And there in those books is recorded every
thought, every motive, every intention, every deed, every dimension of
human experience that is contrary to the standard of God's holy law,
either failing to measure up to its standards or transgressing it. We
have the problem of a bad record - a record in which we are charged
with guilt; real guilt for real sin committed against the true and
living God.
That is why Scripture tells us that the entire human race stands
guilty before Almighty God [Rom 3:19].
Has the problem of your own bad record ever become a burning,
pressing personal concern to you? Have you faced the truth that
Almighty God judged you guilty when our first father sinned, and holds
you guilty for every single word you have spoken contrary to perfect
holiness and justice and purity and righteousness? He knows every
object you have touched and taken contrary to the sanctity of property
and every word you have spoken contrary to perfect, absolute truth. Has
this ever broken in upon you, so that you awakened to the fact that
Almighty God has every right to summon you into his presence and to
require you to give an account of every single deed contrary to His
law, which has brought guilt upon your soul?
Certainly we have the problem of a bad record but we have an
additional problem - the problem of a bad heart. We are not only
pronounced guilty in the court of heaven for what we have done. The
Scripture teaches that the problem of our sin is one that arises not
only from what we have done, but from what we are. When Adam sinned he
not only became guilty before God, but defiled and polluted in his own
nature. The Scripture describes it in Jeremiah 17.9, " The heart is
deceitful above all things and desperately wicked; who can know it?"
Jesus describes it in Mark 7:21, "From within, out of the heart of
man, proceed..." and then He names all the various sins that can be
seen in any newspaper on any day - blasphemies, pride, adulteries,
murder. Jesus said that these things rise out of the artesian well of
pollution, the human heart. Notice carefully that he did not say, "For
from without, by the presence of society and its negative influences,
come forth murder and adultery and pride and thievery." That is what
our so-called sociological experts tell us. It is the "condition of
society" that produces crime and rebellion. Jesus says it is the
condition of the human heart. For from within, out of the heart,
proceed these things - lies, selfishness, self-centeredness, total
pre-occupation with my feelings and my desires and my plans and my
perspectives.
We have hearts that the Scripture describes as "desperately wicked"
- the fountain of all forms of iniquity. To change the biblical
imagery, Romans 8:7 reads, "The carnal mind is enmity against God, for
it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be." Paul
says that the carnal mind, that is, the mind that has never been
regenerated by God, is not reflective of some enmity; he calls it
enmity itself. "The carnal mind is enmity against God." The disposition
of every human heart by nature can be visually pictured as a clenched
fist raised the living God.
This is the inward problem of a bad heart - a heart that loves sin,
a heart that is the fountain of sin, a heart that is at enmity with God.
And such is the problem that every one of us has by nature.
Has the problem of your bad heart ever become a pressing personal
concern to you? I am not asking whether you believe in human sinfulness
in theory. Oh, there is such a thing as a sinful nature and a sinful
heart. My question is: Have your bad record and your bad heart ever
become a matter of deep, inward, personal, pressing concern to you?
Have you known anything of real, personal, inward consciousness of the
awfulness of your guilt in the presence of a holy God? - the
horribleness of a heart that is "deceitful above all things and
desperately wicked"?
A Bible Christian is a person who has in all seriousness taken to
heart his own personal problem of sin.
Now the degree to which we feel the awful weight of sin differs from
one person to another. The length of time over which a person is
brought to the consciousness of his bad record and his bad heart
differs. There are many variables, but Jesus Christ as the Great
Physician never brought his healing virtue to any who did not know
themselves to be sinners. He said, "I did not come to call the
righteous, but sinners to repentance" [Matt. 9:13]. Are you a Bible
Christian, one who has taken seriously your personal problem of sin?
2. A BIBLE CHRISTIAN IS ONE WHO HAS SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED THE ONE
DIVINE REMEDY FOR SIN.
In the Bible we are told again and again that Almighty God has taken
the initiative in doing something for man the sinner. The verses some
of us learned in our infancy underscore divine initiative in providing
a remedy for sinful man: "God so loved the world that he gave his only
begotten Son..."; "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he
loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins"; "But
God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us..."
[John 3:16; 1 John 4:10; Eph. 2:4]. You see, the unique feature of the
Christian faith is that it is not a kind of religious self-help where
you patch yourself up with the aid of God. Just as surely as it is a
unique tenet of the Christian faith that Christ is a Savior for
sinners, so it is also a unique tenet of the Christian faith that all
of our true help comes down from above and meets us where we are. We
cannot pull ourselves up by our own boot-strings. God in mercy breaks
in upon the human situation and does something which we could never do
for ourselves.
Now when we turn to the Scripture we find that divine remedy has at
least three simple but profoundly wonderful focal points:
(a) First of all, that divine remedy is bound up in a Person.
Anyone who begins to take seriously the divine remedy for human sin
will notice in the Scripture that the remedy is not a set of ideas, as
though it were just another philosophy, nor is it found in an
institution, it is bound up in a Person. "God so loved the world that
he gave his only begotten Son." "Thou shalt call his name Jesus for he
shall save..."
He, himself, said, "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man
comes to the Father but by me" [John 14:6]. That one divine remedy is
bound up in a Person and that Person is none other than our Lord Jesus
Christ - the eternal Word who became man, uniting to his Godhead a true
human nature.
Here is God's provision for man with his bad record and his bad
heart, a Savior who is both God and man, the two natures joined in the
one Person for ever. And your personal problem of sin, and mine, if it
is ever to be remedied in a biblical way will be remedied only as we
have personal dealings with that Person. Such is the unique strand of
the Christian faith - the sinner in all his need united to the Savior
in all the plenitude of his grace, the sinner in his naked need and the
Savior in his almighty power, brought directly together in the Gospel.
That is the glory of the Gospel!
(b) It is centered in the cross upon which that Person died. A cross
that leads to an empty tomb, yes! And a cross preceded by a life of
perfect obedience, yes! And when we turn to the Scripture we find that
the divine remedy in a unique way is centered in the cross of Jesus
Christ. When he is formally announced by John the Baptist, John points
to him and says, "Behold the Lamb of God who is bearing away the sins
of the world" [John 1:29]. Jesus himself said, "I did not come to be
ministered unto, but to minister and to give my life a ransom for many"
[Matt. 20:28], and true preaching of the Gospel is so much centered in
the cross that Paul says it is the word, or the message of the cross.
The preaching of the cross is "to them who are perishing
foolishness, but unto us who are being saved it is the power of God" [1
Cor. 1:18], and this same apostle went on to say that when he came to
Corinth - that bastion of intellectualism and pagan Greek philosophy
with its set patterns of rhetorical expertise - "I came amongst you
determined to know nothing save Jesus Christ and him as crucified" [1
Cor. 2:2].
You see, God's gracious remedy for sin is not only bound up in a
Person, it is centered in the cross of that Person - not the cross as
an abstract idea, nor as a religious symbol, but the cross in terms of
what God declares it to mean. The cross is the place where God heaped
upon his Son, by imputation, the sins of his people. On that cross
there was substitutionary curse-bearing. In the language of Galatians
3.13, "God made him to be a curse for us"; "God made him to be sin for
us" [2 Cor. 5:21] - the one who knew no sin. It is not the cross as
some nebulous, indefinable symbol of self giving love, it is the cross
as the monumental display of how God can be just and still pardon
guilty sinners; the cross where God, having imputed the sins of his
people to Christ, pronounces judgment on his Son as the representative
of his people. There on the cross God pours out the vials of his wrath,
unmixed with mercy, until his Son cries out, "My God, my God, why have
you abandoned me? Why have you forsaken me?" [Psalm 22.1; Matt. 27:46].
There in the visible world at Calvary, God, as it were was
demonstrating what was happening in the invisible spiritual world. He
shrouds the heavens in total darkness to let all mankind know that he
is plunging his Son into the outer darkness of the hell which your sins
and my sins deserved. Jesus hangs on the cross in the place of an
undefended guilty criminal; he is in the posture of one for whom
society has but one option, "Away with him," "Crucify him," "Hand him
over to death," and God does not intervene. There in the theater of
what men can see, God is treating his Son as a criminal, he is causing
him to feel in the depths of his own soul all of the fury of the wrath
that should have been vented upon us.
(c) A remedy that is adequate for and offered to all without
discrimination. Before we have felt any consciousness of our sin, about
the easiest thing in the world is to think that God can forgive sinners.
But when you and I begin to have any idea at all of what sin is -
we, little worms of the dust, we creatures whose very life and breath
is held in the hands of the God in whom "we live and move and have our
being" [Acts 17:28] - when we begin, I say, to take seriously that we
have dared to defy Almighty God who holds our breath in his hands, the
God who, when angels rebelled against him, did not wait to show mercy
but consigned them to everlasting chains of darkness with no way of
mercy ever planned or revealed to them, then our thoughts are changed.
Once we take seriously the truth that it is this holy God who sees the
effusions of the foul, corrupt human hearts which are yours and mine,
then we say, "O God, how can you be anything other than just; and if
you give me what my sins deserve, there is nothing for me but wrath and
judgement! How can you forgive me and still be just? How can you be a
righteous God and do anything other than consign me to everlasting
punishment with those angels that rebelled." When you begin to take
your sin seriously, forgiveness becomes the most knotty problem with
which your mind has ever wrestled. It is then that we need to know that
God has provided in a Person, and that Person crucified, a remedy that
is adequate for and offered to all without discrimination. When God
begins to make us feel the reality of or sin, if there were any
conditions placed on the availability of Christ we would say, "Surely I
don't meet the conditions, surely I don't qualify," but the wonder of
God's provision is that it comes in these unfettered terms: "Ho,
everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; he who has no money, come,
buy wine and milk without money and without price. Wherefore do you
labour for that which does not satisfy " [Isa. 55:1-2]. "Come unto me,
all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Him
that comes unto me I will in no wise cast out" [Matt. 11:28; John 6:37].
Oh, the beauty of the unfettered offers of mercy in Jesus Christ!
We do not need to have God step out of heaven and tell us that we,
by name, are warranted to come; we have the unfettered offers of mercy
in the words of his own Son, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are
heavy laden, and I will give you rest."
3. A BIBLE CHRISTIAN IS ONE WHO HAS WHOLEHEARTED COMPLIED WITH THE
DIVINE TERMS FOR APPROPRIATING THE DIVINE PROVISION.
The divine terms are two - repent and believe. That is what Jesus
preached, "At that time Jesus came preaching, Repent and believe the
gospel" [Mark 1:15-16]. It is what Paul preached. He says, "I testified
to Jews and Greeks wherever I went, repentance toward God, faith toward
our Lord Jesus Christ" [Acts 20:21]. This is the Gospel that Jesus told
his own to preach [Luke 24:45-46]. He opened their minds to understand
the Scripture and told them it was necessary for Christ to die, and to
be raised again from the dead the third day, that repentance unto
remission of sins should be preached in his name among all the nations,
beginning at Jerusalem.
What are the divine terms for obtaining the divine provision? We
must repent, we must believe. Now because we have to speak in terms of
one word following another, or preceding another, we must not think
that this repentance is divorced from faith or that this faith is ever
divorced from repentance. True faith is permeated with repentance, true
repentance is permeated with faith. They inter-penetrate one another so
that, whenever there is a true appropriation of the divine provision,
there you will find a believing penitent and penitent believer. The one
will never be divorced from the other.
What is repentance? The definition of the Shorter Catechism is an
excellent one: "Repentance unto life is a saving grace, whereby a
sinner, out of a sense of his sin, and apprehension of (that is, a
laying hold of) the mercy of God in Christ, does with grief and hatred
of his sin, turn from it unto God, with full purpose of, and
endeavoring after, new obedience."
Repentance is the prodigal down in the far country coming to his
senses. He left his father's home because he could not stand his
father's government. Everything about his father's will and ways
irritated him. It was a constant block to following the desires of his
own foul, wretched, sin-loving heart. The day came when he said he
wanted what was due him. He went into the far country. When he left he
had a notion of his father, of his government and of his ways, which
was entirely negative, but the Scripture tells us in Luke 15 that down
in the far country he came to himself: "And when he came to himself he
said, I will arise and go to my father and will say unto him, Father, I
have sinned against heaven, and before you, and am no more worthy to be
called your son. Make me as one of your hired servants." And then the
Scripture says he did not sit there and think about it, and write
poetry about it and send telegrams home to Dad. It says, "He rose up
and came to his father." He left all those companions who were his
friends in sin; he loathed and abominated and abhorred everything that
belonged to that lifestyle. He turned his back on it. And what was it
that drew him home? It was the confidence that there was a gracious
father with a large heart and with the righteous rule for his happy,
loving home. And he said, "I will arise and go to my father." He did
not send a telegram saying, "Dad, things are getting rough down here;
my conscience is giving me fits at night; won't you send me some money
to help me out and come and pay me a visit and make me feel good?" Not
at all! He did not need just to feel good, he needed to become good.
And he left the far country. It is a beautiful stroke in our Lord's
picture when he says, "While he was yet a great way off, his father saw
him and had compassion, and ran, and threw his arms around him and
kissed him." The prodigal did not come strutting up to his father,
talking about making a decision to come home. There is a notion that
people can come strutting into enquiry rooms and pray their little
prayer and so do God a favour by making their decision. This has no
more to do with conversion then my name is "Abraham Lincoln." True
repentance involves recognizing that I have sinned against the God of
heaven, who is great and gracious, holy and loving, and that I am not
worthy to be called his son. And yet, when I am prepared to leave my
sin, to turn my back upon it and to come back haltingly, wondering if
indeed there can be mercy for me, then - wonder of wonders! - the
Father meets me, and throws the arms of reconciling love and mercy
about me. I say it not in a sentimental way but in all truth, he
smothers repenting sinners in forgiving and redemptive love.
But note, the father did not throw his arms around the prodigal when
he was still in the hog pens and in the arms of harlots. Do I speak to
some whose hearts are wedded to the world, who love the world's ways?
Perhaps in your personal life, or in relationship to your parents,
or in your social life where you take so lightly the sanctity of the
body, you show what you are. Maybe some of you are involved in
fornication, in heavy petting, in looking at the kind of stuff on
television and in the cinema that feeds your lust, and yet you name the
name of Christ. You live in the hog pens and then go to the house of
God on Sunday. Shame on you! Leave your hog pens, your haunts of sin.
Leave your patterns and practices of fleshly and carnal indulgence.
Repentance is being sorry enough to quite your sin. You will never know
the forgiving mercy of God while you are still wedded to your sins.
Repentance is the soul's divorce from sin but it will always be
joined to faith. What is faith? Faith is the casting of the soul upon
Christ as he is offered to us in the gospel. Forsaking All I Take Him.
That is faith! "As many as received him, to them gave he the right
to become the sons of God, even to them that believe in his name" [John
1:12]. Faith is likened to drinking of Christ. In my soul-thirst I
drink of him. Faith is likened to looking to Christ. Faith is likened
to following Christ, fleeing to Christ. The Bible uses many analogies
and the sum of them all is this, that in the nakedness of my need I
cast myself upon the Savior, trusting him to be to me all that he has
promised to be to needy sinners.
Faith is taking nothing to Christ but an empty hand by which it
takes Christ and all that is in him. And what is in him? Full pardon
for all my sins! His perfect obedience is put to my account. His death
is counted as mine. And the gift of the Spirit is in him. Adoption,
sanctification and ultimately glorification are all in him, and faith,
in taking Christ, receives all that is in him. "But of him are ye in
Christ Jesus, whom God has made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and
sanctification and redemption" [1 Cor. 1:30].
What is a biblical Christian? A biblical Christian is a person who
has wholeheartedly complied with the divine terms for obtaining the
divine provision for sin. Those terms are repentance and faith. I like
to think of them as the hinge on which the door of salvation turns. The
hinge has two plates. One that is screwed to the door and the other
screwed to the door jam. They are held together by a pin and on that
hinge the door turns. Christ is that door, but none enter through him
who do not repent and believe, and there is no true hinge made up only
of repentance. A repentance that is not joined to faith is a legal
repentance. It terminates on yourself and on your sin.
A professed faith that is not joined to repentance is a spurious
faith, for faith is faith in Christ to save me, not in but from my sin.
Repentance and faith are inseparable, and except you repent you will
perish. He that believeth not shall be damned.
4. A BIBLE CHRISTIAN IS A PERSON WHO MANIFESTS IN HIS LIFE THAT HIS
CLAIMS TO REPENTANCE AND FAITH ARE REAL.
Paul said that he preached that men should repent and turn to God
and do works meet for, answering to, consistent with, repentance [Acts
26:20]. "By grace are you saved through faith, and that not of
yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should
boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good
works which God before ordained that we should walk in them" [Eph.
2:8-10]. Paul says in Galatians chapter 5, that faith works by love.
Wherever there is true faith in Christ there will always be
implanted genuine love to Christ and where there is love to Christ
there will always be obedience to Christ. True faith always works by
love, and what does it work? A life of obedience! "He that has my
commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me. He that loves me
not keeps not my sayings" [John 14:21-24]. We are not saved by loving
Christ, we are saved by trusting Christ, but a trust that produces no
love is not real.
True faith works by love, and that which love works is not the
ability to sit on a beautiful starlight night writing poetry about how
exiting it is to be a Christian. It works by causing you to go back
into that home and to obey your father and mother as the Bible tells
you to do, or back to that university campus to take a stand for truth
and righteousness against all the pressure of your peers. True faith
makes you willing and prepared to be counted a fool and crazy, willing
to be considered anachronistic, because you believe that there are
eternal, unchangeable, moral and ethical standards. You are willing to
believe in the sanctity of human life, and to take your stand against
pre-marital sex and the murdering of babies in mothers' wombs. For
Jesus said, "Whoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this
adulterous and sinful generation, of him shall the Son of man be
ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels"
[Mark 8:38]. What is a Bible Christian?
Not one who merely says, "Oh, yes, I know I am a sinner, with a bad
record and a bad heart. I know that God's provision for sinners is in
Christ and in his cross, adequate, freely offered to all, and I know it
comes to all who repent and believe." That is not enough. Do you
profess to repent and believe? Then can you make that profession stick,
not by a life of perfection but by a life of purposeful obedience to
Jesus Christ? "Not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter
the kingdom of heaven," Jesus said, "but he who is doing the will of my
Father who is in heaven" [Matt. 7:21]. In Hebrews 5:8 we read, "He
became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey him." And in
John 2:4, "He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments is
a liar, and the truth is not in him."
Can you make your claim to be a Christian stick from the Bible? Does your
life manifest the fruits of repentance and faith? Do you possess a life of
attachment to Christ, of obedience to Christ and confession of Christ? Is
your behavior marked by adherence to the ways of Christ? Not perfectly - No!
Every day you must pray, "Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who
trespass against us." But you can also say, "For me to live is Christ," or
"Jesus I my cross have taken. All to leave and follow thee. The world behind
me, the cross before me, I have decided to follow Jesus." That is what a
true Christian is. How many of us are real Christians? I leave the answer in
the deep chambers of your own mind and heart. But, remember, answer with an
answer that you will be prepared to live with for eternity. Be content with
no answer but that which will find you comfortable in the death and safe in
the day of judgement.
.

User: "MEHSC MOBERATOR moi@ere47"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 10 Jul 2007 09:35:35 PM
"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:

"What is a biblical Christian?" In other words, when does a man or
woman, a boy or girl, have the right to take to himself or herself the
name Christian, according to the Scriptures?

Very little!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus ... became the repository of of words he did not originate and
probably did not even say. In addition, Christian evangelists imagined
things for him to say - things that gave voice to their own beliefs. For
these reasons, The Jesuys Seminar concluded on a case by case basis that
less than 20 percent of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospels were
actiually spoken by him. ... The message of the parables and aphorisms is
first and foremost the announcement of good news: sinners and outcasts are
welcome in God's kingdom; indeed, God's domain belongs to them. ... God's
domain was for Jesus something already present. It was also something to be
celebrated because it embraces everyone - Jew, Gentile, slave, free, male,
female. ... The kingdom represents an unbrokered relationship to God:
temple and priests are obsolete.
from Robert W. Funk "Honest To Jesus" (Hodder & Stoughton: 1996) p. 41
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We do not want to make the assumption lightly that you are true
Christians.

If I ever return to being a Trew Kristyun - shoot me and put me out of my
misery!

1. ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE A CHRISTIAN IS A PERSON WHO HAS > FACED
REALISTICALLY THE PROBLEM OF HIS OWN PERSONAL SIN.

Churches use false guilt to manipulate and control their parishioners.

2. A BIBLE CHRISTIAN IS ONE WHO HAS SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED THE ONE DIVINE
REMEDY FOR SIN.

Forgiveness is in the nature of God. God never required a human sacrifice to
appease him.
--
He has shown you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God ?
Micah 6:8 RSV

3. A BIBLE CHRISTIAN IS ONE WHO HAS WHOLEHEARTED COMPLIED WITH THE
DIVINE TERMS FOR APPROPRIATING THE DIVINE PROVISION.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What IS the Gospel????
MARK'S GOSPEL (ending at Mark 16:8)
1:15; 4:11; 4:14; 6:12; 9:1;13:9-10 all describe the gospel / good news as
announcing that the kingdom [realm] of God is here so one must turn away
from one's sins. Nothing more! Count how many times Jesus says the "the
kingdom of God is like" in Mark's gospel!
MATTHEW'S GOSPEL
4:17; 4:23; 5:19; 6:33; 7:21; 9:35; 10:7; 11:12; 12:28; 13:11; 13:19; 13:38;
13;52; 18:2; 19:23; 21:31 21:43; 23:13; 24:34; 25:34 ff; 26:13; describe the
gospel / good news as announcing that the kingdom [realm] of heaven is here
so one must turn away from one's sins. Nothing more! (Matthew prefers
'kingdom of heaven" to "kingdom of God") Count how many times Jesus says
the "the kingdom of heaven is like" in Matthew's gospel!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

4. A BIBLE CHRISTIAN IS A PERSON WHO MANIFESTS IN HIS LIFE THAT HIS
CLAIMS TO REPENTANCE AND FAITH ARE REAL.

Like following the Bible???? .............
--
Then God spoke all these words. He said: 'I am Yahweh your God who brought
you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have NO
GODS (INCLUDING JESUS) EXCEPT ME.' - Exodus 20: 1-2
--
Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God {YAHWEH NOT YAHWEH'S HUMAN MESSIAH]
with all your heart and with all
your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest
commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew
22:37-40
--
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A CHRISTUS OBNOXIUM
.... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:
'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.
Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.
And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'
Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
User: "RedFox"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 11 Jul 2007 03:43:00 AM
In article <46944446@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, "MEHSC MOBERATOR" <moi@ere47> wrote:

"Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:

"What is a biblical Christian?" In other words, when does a man or
woman, a boy or girl, have the right to take to himself or herself the
name Christian, according to the Scriptures?


Very little!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus ... became the repository of of words he did not originate and
probably did not even say. In addition, Christian evangelists imagined
things for him to say - things that gave voice to their own beliefs. For
these reasons, The Jesuys Seminar concluded on a case by case basis that
less than 20 percent of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospels were
actiually spoken by him. ... The message of the parables and aphorisms is
first and foremost the announcement of good news: sinners and outcasts are
welcome in God's kingdom; indeed, God's domain belongs to them. ... God's
domain was for Jesus something already present. It was also something to be
celebrated because it embraces everyone - Jew, Gentile, slave, free, male,
female. ... The kingdom represents an unbrokered relationship to God:
temple and priests are obsolete.

from Robert W. Funk "Honest To Jesus" (Hodder & Stoughton: 1996) p. 41

Absolutely
"What would Jesus himself have thought of Paul? We must remember that
Jesus never knew Paul; the two men never once met. The disciples who knew
Jesus best, such as Peter, James and John, have left no writings behind
them explaining how Jesus seemed to them or what they considered his
mission to have been. Did they agree with the interpretations disseminated
by Paul in his fluent, articulate writings? Or did they perhaps think that
this newcomer to the scene, spinning complicated theories about the place
of Jesus in the scheme of things, was getting everything wrong? Paul
claimed that his interpretations were not just his own invention, but had
come to him by personal inspiration; he claimed that he had personal
acquaintance with the resurrected Jesus, even though he had never met him
during his lifetime. Such acquaintance, he claimed, gained through visions
and transports, was actually superior to acquaintance with Jesus during
his lifetime, when Jesus was much more reticent about his purposes.
We know about Paul not only from his own letters but also from the book of
Acts, which gives a full account of his life. Paul, in fact, is the hero
of Acts, which was written by an admirer and follower of his, namely,
Luke, who was also the author of the Gospel of that name. From Acts, it
would appear that there was some friction between Paul and the leaders of
the 'Jerusalem Church', the surviving companions of Jesus; but this
friction was resolved, and they all became the best of friends, with
common aims and purposes. From certain of Paul's letters, particularly
Galatians, it seems that the friction was more serious than in the picture
given in Acts, which thus appears to be partly a propaganda exercise,
intended to portray unity in the early Church. The question recurs: what
would Jesus have thought of Paul, and what did the Apostles think of him?"

We should remember that the New Testament, as we have it, is much more
dominated by Paul than appears at first sight. As we read it, we come
across the Four Gospels, of which Jesus is the hero, and do not encounter
Paul as a character until we embark on the post-Jesus narrative of Acts.
Then we finally come into contact with Paul himself, in his letters. But
this impression is misleading, for the earliest writings in the New
Testament are actually Paul's letters, which were written about AD 50-60,
while the Gospels were not written until the period AD 70-110. This means
that the theories of Paul were already before the writers of the Gospels
and coloured their interpretations of Jesus' activities. Paul is, in a
sense, present from the very first word of the New Testament. This is, of
course, not the whole story, for the Gospels are based on traditions and
even written sources which go back to a time before the impact of Paul,
and these early traditions and sources are not entirely obliterated in the
final version and give valuable indications of what the story was like
before Paulinist editors pulled it into final shape.
However, the dominant outlook and shaping perspective of the Gospels is
that of Paul, for the simple reason that it was the Paulinist view of what
Jesus' sojourn on Earth had been about that was triumphant in the Church
as it developed in history. Rival interpretations, which at one time had
been orthodox, opposed to Paul's very individual views, now became
heretical and were crowded out of the final version of the writings
adopted by the Pauline Church as the inspired canon of the New Testament.
This explains the puzzling and ambiguous role given in the Gospels to the
companions of Jesus, the twelve disciples. They are shadowy figures, who
are allowed little personality, except of a schematic kind. They are also
portrayed as stupid; they never quite understand what Jesus is up to.
Their importance in the origins of Christianity is played down in a
remarkable way.
For example, we find immediately after Jesus' death that the leader of the
Jerusalem Church is Jesus' brother James. Yet in the Gospels, this James
does not appear at all as having anything to do with Jesus' mission and
story. Instead, he is given a brief mention as one of the brothers of
Jesus who allegedly opposed Jesus during his lifetime and regarded him as
mad. How it came about that a brother who had been hostile to Jesus in his
lifetime suddenly became the revered leader of the Church immediately
after Jesus' death is not explained, though one would have thought that
some explanation was called for.
Later Church legends, of course, filled the gap with stories of the
miraculous conversion of James after the death of Jesus and his
development into a saint. But the most likely explanation is, as will be
argued later, that the erasure of Jesus' brother James (and his other
brothers) from any significant role in the Gospel story is part of the
denigration of the early leaders who had been in close contact with Jesus
and regarded with great suspicion and dismay the Christological theories
of the upstart Paul, flaunting his brand new visions in interpretation of
the Jesus whom he had never met in the flesh."
.


User: "* Rowland Croucher *"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 10 Jul 2007 07:40:26 PM
Carl wrote:
<>

Can you make your claim to be a Christian stick from the Bible?

Another biblical view (about how to know the Lord):
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/579.htm
--
Shalom/Salaam! Rowland Croucher
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/ (20,000 articles 4000 humor)
Blogs - http://rowlandsblogs.blogspot.com/
Justice for Dawn Rowan - http://dawnrowansaga.blogspot.com/
Funny Jokes and Pics - http://funnyjokesnpics.blogspot.com/
.

User: "RedFox"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 11 Jul 2007 03:40:07 AM
In article <f70u35$291$1@news.utelfla.com>, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com> wrote:


"What is a biblical Christian?" In other words, when does a man or woman,
a boy or girl, have the right to take to himself or herself the name
Christian, according to the Scriptures?

What American Fundamentalism best demonstrates is that following the self
destructive Fundamentalist view it is impossible to be BOTH a follower of
Jesus AND a Christian
Pardon me if out of the two I prefer to be the former and not the latter -
despite the fact that that leaves me with the reality that there is very
little information available about the historical Jesus
The end result has to be walking out on a totally deceptive, misled, and
lying church. Christianity is Paulism - it has very little to do with a
real Jesus. Paul was a serial killer a persecutor and a fraud of the
first order
Many Followers of Jesus recognised this in his own time
Many recognise it to this day - and the numbers of people who realise that
the key to the Jesus mystery is Paul's dishonesty and fraud increases
daily.
Something which I did
Long long long ago.
If you are Born Again it is now time to Grow Up
Carl you sound VERY like John Wolf
.

User: "Bible Bob"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 10 Jul 2007 08:34:54 PM
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:21:47 -0400, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:

The following is an excellent presentation from Al Martin. I urge you to
read it at your leisure.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

---

Carl,
What a pathetic bunch of lies! Is this guy nuts? You are nuts for
posting such trash.
What is a Christian? Here is what God said through Luke:
Act 11:26 KJV
And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to
pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and
taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in
Antioch.
A Christian is a disciple of Jesus Christ. That's what it says ands
that is what it means. Before a person can become a "Christian" they
must first confess Jesus as Lord and believe in their heart that God
raised Jesus from the dead (Rom 10:9). Getting saved is not
confessing sins; but confessing the Savior from sin. All this sin
consciousness that men like this guy and you promote is nothing more
than hyperreligious mumbo jumbo. It takes time to become a disciple
and all the garbage the man talks about below doesn't make a person a
disciple of Jesus Christ. Behaving like Jesus Christ is what makes a
person a disciple and to do that one must learn how to behave like
Jesus Christ and that takes time.
It's real simple, get saved and your sins are gone. Sin after you get
saved and you confess to the Father and the blood of Jesus Christ
cleanes you from all unrighteosness. Why don't you religious nut
cases wake up and smell the coffee? Dwelling on sin is sin! In
effect you are saying that your lousy sins are greater than God and
that just is not true.
1Jn 1:7-10 KJV
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have
fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son
cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth
is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his
word is not in us.
I have quoted the above passages to you a number of times concerning
your many sins that you accomplish via your posts. But you spit in
God's face and continue to walk in darkness rather than learn how to
walk in the light and fellowship one with another. Your hate
mongering is sin whether you admit it or not.
BB


What is a Biblical Christian?
by Albert N. Martin

Al Martin is pastor of Trinity Baptist Church, 116 Horseneck Road,
Montville, New Jersey 07045, U.S.A., and an Associate Editor of the Banner
of Truth magazine. This address was given at the Banner of Truth Youth
Conference 1984.

There are many matters concerning which total ignorance and complete
indifference are neither tragic nor fatal. I believe many of you are
probably totally ignorant of Einstein's theory of relativity and if you were
asked to explain it to someone you would really be in a difficulty. Not only
are you ignorant of Einstein's theory of
relativity, you are probably quite indifferent, and that ignorance and
indifference is neither fatal nor tragic. I am sure there are few of us who
can explain all the processes by which a brown cow eats green grass and
gives white milk. It does not keep you from enjoying the milk. But there are
some things concerning which ignorance and indifference are both tragic and
fatal and one such thing is the Bible's answer to the question I am about to
set before you.

"What is a biblical Christian?" In other words, when does a man or woman,
a boy or girl, have the right to take to himself or herself the name
Christian, according to the Scriptures?

We do not want to make the assumption lightly that you are true
Christians. I want to set before you four strands of the Bible's answer to
that question.

1. ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE A CHRISTIAN IS A PERSON WHO HAS FACED
REALISTICALLY THE PROBLEM OF HIS OWN PERSONAL SIN.

Now one of the many unique things about the Christian faith is this -
unlike most of the religions of the world, Christianity is essentially and
fundamentally a sinner's religion. When the angel announced to Joseph the
approaching birth of Jesus Christ, he did so in these words, "Thou shalt
call his name Jesus, for he shall save his
people from their sins" [Matt. 1:21]. The apostle Paul wrote in 1 Timothy
1.15, "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ
Jesus came into the world to save sinners." He came into the world to save
sinners. The Lord Jesus Christ himself says in Luke 5:31-32, "Those that are
healthy do not need a doctor but those who are sick. I did not come to call
the righteous, but sinners to repentance." And the Christian is one who has
faced realistically this problem of
his own personal sin.

When we turn to the Scripture and seek to take in the whole of its
teaching on the subject of sin, right down to its irreducible minimum,
we find that the Scripture tells us that each one of us has a two-fold
personal problem in relation to sin. On the one hand, we have the
problem of a bad record, and on the other, the problem of a bad heart.

If we start in Genesis 3 and read that tragic account of man's
rebellion against God and his fall into sin, then trace the biblical
doctrine of sin all the way through the Old Testament, and on into the
New, right through to the book of Revelation, we shall see that it is
not over- simplification to say that everything the Bible teaches about
the doctrine of sin can be reduced to those two fundamental categories
- the problem of a bad record and the problem of a bad heart.

What do I mean by "the problem of a bad record?" I am using that
terminology to describe what the Scripture sets before us as the
doctrine of human guilt because of sin. The Scripture tells us plainly
that we obtained a bad record long before we had any personal existence
here upon the earth: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the
world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all
have sinned" [Rom. 5:12]. When did the "all" sin? We all sinned in
Adam. He was appointed by God to represent all the human race and when
he sinned we sinned in him and fell with him in his first
transgression. That is why the apostle writes in 1 Corinthians 15:22,
"As in Adam all die." We passed our age of accountability in the Garden
of Eden and from the moment Adam sinned we were charged with guilt. We
fell in him in his first transgression And we are part of the race that
is under condemnation. Furthermore, the Scripture says, after we come
into being at our own conception and subsequent birth additional guilt
accrues to us for our own personal, individual transgressions. The Word
of God teaches that there is not a just man upon the face of the earth
who does good and does not sin [Eccles. 7:20], and every single sin
incurs additional guilt. Our record in heaven is a marred record.
Almighty God measures the totality of our human experience from the
moment of our birth by a standard which is absolutely inflexible; a
standard that touches not only our external needs but also our thoughts
and the very motions and intentions of our hearts; so much so, that the
Lord Jesus said that the stirring of unjust anger is the very essence
of murder, the look with the intention to lust is adultery. And God is
keeping "a detailed record."

That record is among "the books" which will be opened in the day of
judgement [Rev. 20:12]. And there in those books is recorded every
thought, every motive, every intention, every deed, every dimension of
human experience that is contrary to the standard of God's holy law,
either failing to measure up to its standards or transgressing it. We
have the problem of a bad record - a record in which we are charged
with guilt; real guilt for real sin committed against the true and
living God.

That is why Scripture tells us that the entire human race stands
guilty before Almighty God [Rom 3:19].

Has the problem of your own bad record ever become a burning,
pressing personal concern to you? Have you faced the truth that
Almighty God judged you guilty when our first father sinned, and holds
you guilty for every single word you have spoken contrary to perfect
holiness and justice and purity and righteousness? He knows every
object you have touched and taken contrary to the sanctity of property
and every word you have spoken contrary to perfect, absolute truth. Has
this ever broken in upon you, so that you awakened to the fact that
Almighty God has every right to summon you into his presence and to
require you to give an account of every single deed contrary to His
law, which has brought guilt upon your soul?

Certainly we have the problem of a bad record but we have an
additional problem - the problem of a bad heart. We are not only
pronounced guilty in the court of heaven for what we have done. The
Scripture teaches that the problem of our sin is one that arises not
only from what we have done, but from what we are. When Adam sinned he
not only became guilty before God, but defiled and polluted in his own
nature. The Scripture describes it in Jeremiah 17.9, " The heart is
deceitful above all things and desperately wicked; who can know it?"

Jesus describes it in Mark 7:21, "From within, out of the heart of
man, proceed..." and then He names all the various sins that can be
seen in any newspaper on any day - blasphemies, pride, adulteries,
murder. Jesus said that these things rise out of the artesian well of
pollution, the human heart. Notice carefully that he did not say, "For
from without, by the presence of society and its negative influences,
come forth murder and adultery and pride and thievery." That is what
our so-called sociological experts tell us. It is the "condition of
society" that produces crime and rebellion. Jesus says it is the
condition of the human heart. For from within, out of the heart,
proceed these things - lies, selfishness, self-centeredness, total
pre-occupation with my feelings and my desires and my plans and my
perspectives.

We have hearts that the Scripture describes as "desperately wicked"
- the fountain of all forms of iniquity. To change the biblical
imagery, Romans 8:7 reads, "The carnal mind is enmity against God, for
it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be." Paul
says that the carnal mind, that is, the mind that has never been
regenerated by God, is not reflective of some enmity; he calls it
enmity itself. "The carnal mind is enmity against God." The disposition
of every human heart by nature can be visually pictured as a clenched
fist raised the living God.

This is the inward problem of a bad heart - a heart that loves sin,
a heart that is the fountain of sin, a heart that is at enmity with God.

And such is the problem that every one of us has by nature.

Has the problem of your bad heart ever become a pressing personal
concern to you? I am not asking whether you believe in human sinfulness
in theory. Oh, there is such a thing as a sinful nature and a sinful
heart. My question is: Have your bad record and your bad heart ever
become a matter of deep, inward, personal, pressing concern to you?
Have you known anything of real, personal, inward consciousness of the
awfulness of your guilt in the presence of a holy God? - the
horribleness of a heart that is "deceitful above all things and
desperately wicked"?

A Bible Christian is a person who has in all seriousness taken to
heart his own personal problem of sin.

Now the degree to which we feel the awful weight of sin differs from
one person to another. The length of time over which a person is
brought to the consciousness of his bad record and his bad heart
differs. There are many variables, but Jesus Christ as the Great
Physician never brought his healing virtue to any who did not know
themselves to be sinners. He said, "I did not come to call the
righteous, but sinners to repentance" [Matt. 9:13]. Are you a Bible
Christian, one who has taken seriously your personal problem of sin?

2. A BIBLE CHRISTIAN IS ONE WHO HAS SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED THE ONE
DIVINE REMEDY FOR SIN.

In the Bible we are told again and again that Almighty God has taken
the initiative in doing something for man the sinner. The verses some
of us learned in our infancy underscore divine initiative in providing
a remedy for sinful man: "God so loved the world that he gave his only
begotten Son..."; "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he
loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins"; "But
God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us..."
[John 3:16; 1 John 4:10; Eph. 2:4]. You see, the unique feature of the
Christian faith is that it is not a kind of religious self-help where
you patch yourself up with the aid of God. Just as surely as it is a
unique tenet of the Christian faith that Christ is a Savior for
sinners, so it is also a unique tenet of the Christian faith that all
of our true help comes down from above and meets us where we are. We
cannot pull ourselves up by our own boot-strings. God in mercy breaks
in upon the human situation and does something which we could never do
for ourselves.

Now when we turn to the Scripture we find that divine remedy has at
least three simple but profoundly wonderful focal points:

(a) First of all, that divine remedy is bound up in a Person.

Anyone who begins to take seriously the divine remedy for human sin
will notice in the Scripture that the remedy is not a set of ideas, as
though it were just another philosophy, nor is it found in an
institution, it is bound up in a Person. "God so loved the world that
he gave his only begotten Son." "Thou shalt call his name Jesus for he
shall save..."

He, himself, said, "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man
comes to the Father but by me" [John 14:6]. That one divine remedy is
bound up in a Person and that Person is none other than our Lord Jesus
Christ - the eternal Word who became man, uniting to his Godhead a true
human nature.

Here is God's provision for man with his bad record and his bad
heart, a Savior who is both God and man, the two natures joined in the
one Person for ever. And your personal problem of sin, and mine, if it
is ever to be remedied in a biblical way will be remedied only as we
have personal dealings with that Person. Such is the unique strand of
the Christian faith - the sinner in all his need united to the Savior
in all the plenitude of his grace, the sinner in his naked need and the
Savior in his almighty power, brought directly together in the Gospel.
That is the glory of the Gospel!

(b) It is centered in the cross upon which that Person died. A cross
that leads to an empty tomb, yes! And a cross preceded by a life of
perfect obedience, yes! And when we turn to the Scripture we find that
the divine remedy in a unique way is centered in the cross of Jesus
Christ. When he is formally announced by John the Baptist, John points
to him and says, "Behold the Lamb of God who is bearing away the sins
of the world" [John 1:29]. Jesus himself said, "I did not come to be
ministered unto, but to minister and to give my life a ransom for many"
[Matt. 20:28], and true preaching of the Gospel is so much centered in
the cross that Paul says it is the word, or the message of the cross.

The preaching of the cross is "to them who are perishing
foolishness, but unto us who are being saved it is the power of God" [1
Cor. 1:18], and this same apostle went on to say that when he came to
Corinth - that bastion of intellectualism and pagan Greek philosophy
with its set patterns of rhetorical expertise - "I came amongst you
determined to know nothing save Jesus Christ and him as crucified" [1
Cor. 2:2].

You see, God's gracious remedy for sin is not only bound up in a
Person, it is centered in the cross of that Person - not the cross as
an abstract idea, nor as a religious symbol, but the cross in terms of
what God declares it to mean. The cross is the place where God heaped
upon his Son, by imputation, the sins of his people. On that cross
there was substitutionary curse-bearing. In the language of Galatians
3.13, "God made him to be a curse for us"; "God made him to be sin for
us" [2 Cor. 5:21] - the one who knew no sin. It is not the cross as
some nebulous, indefinable symbol of self giving love, it is the cross
as the monumental display of how God can be just and still pardon
guilty sinners; the cross where God, having imputed the sins of his
people to Christ, pronounces judgment on his Son as the representative
of his people. There on the cross God pours out the vials of his wrath,
unmixed with mercy, until his Son cries out, "My God, my God, why have
you abandoned me? Why have you forsaken me?" [Psalm 22.1; Matt. 27:46].
There in the visible world at Calvary, God, as it were was
demonstrating what was happening in the invisible spiritual world. He
shrouds the heavens in total darkness to let all mankind know that he
is plunging his Son into the outer darkness of the hell which your sins
and my sins deserved. Jesus hangs on the cross in the place of an
undefended guilty criminal; he is in the posture of one for whom
society has but one option, "Away with him," "Crucify him," "Hand him
over to death," and God does not intervene. There in the theater of
what men can see, God is treating his Son as a criminal, he is causing
him to feel in the depths of his own soul all of the fury of the wrath
that should have been vented upon us.

(c) A remedy that is adequate for and offered to all without
discrimination. Before we have felt any consciousness of our sin, about
the easiest thing in the world is to think that God can forgive sinners.

But when you and I begin to have any idea at all of what sin is -
we, little worms of the dust, we creatures whose very life and breath
is held in the hands of the God in whom "we live and move and have our
being" [Acts 17:28] - when we begin, I say, to take seriously that we
have dared to defy Almighty God who holds our breath in his hands, the
God who, when angels rebelled against him, did not wait to show mercy
but consigned them to everlasting chains of darkness with no way of
mercy ever planned or revealed to them, then our thoughts are changed.
Once we take seriously the truth that it is this holy God who sees the
effusions of the foul, corrupt human hearts which are yours and mine,
then we say, "O God, how can you be anything other than just; and if
you give me what my sins deserve, there is nothing for me but wrath and
judgement! How can you forgive me and still be just? How can you be a
righteous God and do anything other than consign me to everlasting
punishment with those angels that rebelled." When you begin to take
your sin seriously, forgiveness becomes the most knotty problem with
which your mind has ever wrestled. It is then that we need to know that
God has provided in a Person, and that Person crucified, a remedy that
is adequate for and offered to all without discrimination. When God
begins to make us feel the reality of or sin, if there were any
conditions placed on the availability of Christ we would say, "Surely I
don't meet the conditions, surely I don't qualify," but the wonder of
God's provision is that it comes in these unfettered terms: "Ho,
everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; he who has no money, come,
buy wine and milk without money and without price. Wherefore do you
labour for that which does not satisfy " [Isa. 55:1-2]. "Come unto me,
all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Him
that comes unto me I will in no wise cast out" [Matt. 11:28; John 6:37].

Oh, the beauty of the unfettered offers of mercy in Jesus Christ!

We do not need to have God step out of heaven and tell us that we,
by name, are warranted to come; we have the unfettered offers of mercy
in the words of his own Son, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are
heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

3. A BIBLE CHRISTIAN IS ONE WHO HAS WHOLEHEARTED COMPLIED WITH THE
DIVINE TERMS FOR APPROPRIATING THE DIVINE PROVISION.

The divine terms are two - repent and believe. That is what Jesus
preached, "At that time Jesus came preaching, Repent and believe the
gospel" [Mark 1:15-16]. It is what Paul preached. He says, "I testified
to Jews and Greeks wherever I went, repentance toward God, faith toward
our Lord Jesus Christ" [Acts 20:21]. This is the Gospel that Jesus told
his own to preach [Luke 24:45-46]. He opened their minds to understand
the Scripture and told them it was necessary for Christ to die, and to
be raised again from the dead the third day, that repentance unto
remission of sins should be preached in his name among all the nations,
beginning at Jerusalem.

What are the divine terms for obtaining the divine provision? We
must repent, we must believe. Now because we have to speak in terms of
one word following another, or preceding another, we must not think
that this repentance is divorced from faith or that this faith is ever
divorced from repentance. True faith is permeated with repentance, true
repentance is permeated with faith. They inter-penetrate one another so
that, whenever there is a true appropriation of the divine provision,
there you will find a believing penitent and penitent believer. The one
will never be divorced from the other.

What is repentance? The definition of the Shorter Catechism is an
excellent one: "Repentance unto life is a saving grace, whereby a
sinner, out of a sense of his sin, and apprehension of (that is, a
laying hold of) the mercy of God in Christ, does with grief and hatred
of his sin, turn from it unto God, with full purpose of, and
endeavoring after, new obedience."

Repentance is the prodigal down in the far country coming to his
senses. He left his father's home because he could not stand his
father's government. Everything about his father's will and ways
irritated him. It was a constant block to following the desires of his
own foul, wretched, sin-loving heart. The day came when he said he
wanted what was due him. He went into the far country. When he left he
had a notion of his father, of his government and of his ways, which
was entirely negative, but the Scripture tells us in Luke 15 that down
in the far country he came to himself: "And when he came to himself he
said, I will arise and go to my father and will say unto him, Father, I
have sinned against heaven, and before you, and am no more worthy to be
called your son. Make me as one of your hired servants." And then the
Scripture says he did not sit there and think about it, and write
poetry about it and send telegrams home to Dad. It says, "He rose up
and came to his father." He left all those companions who were his
friends in sin; he loathed and abominated and abhorred everything that
belonged to that lifestyle. He turned his back on it. And what was it
that drew him home? It was the confidence that there was a gracious
father with a large heart and with the righteous rule for his happy,
loving home. And he said, "I will arise and go to my father." He did
not send a telegram saying, "Dad, things are getting rough down here;
my conscience is giving me fits at night; won't you send me some money
to help me out and come and pay me a visit and make me feel good?" Not
at all! He did not need just to feel good, he needed to become good.
And he left the far country. It is a beautiful stroke in our Lord's
picture when he says, "While he was yet a great way off, his father saw
him and had compassion, and ran, and threw his arms around him and
kissed him." The prodigal did not come strutting up to his father,
talking about making a decision to come home. There is a notion that
people can come strutting into enquiry rooms and pray their little
prayer and so do God a favour by making their decision. This has no
more to do with conversion then my name is "Abraham Lincoln." True
repentance involves recognizing that I have sinned against the God of
heaven, who is great and gracious, holy and loving, and that I am not
worthy to be called his son. And yet, when I am prepared to leave my
sin, to turn my back upon it and to come back haltingly, wondering if
indeed there can be mercy for me, then - wonder of wonders! - the
Father meets me, and throws the arms of reconciling love and mercy
about me. I say it not in a sentimental way but in all truth, he
smothers repenting sinners in forgiving and redemptive love.

But note, the father did not throw his arms around the prodigal when
he was still in the hog pens and in the arms of harlots. Do I speak to
some whose hearts are wedded to the world, who love the world's ways?

Perhaps in your personal life, or in relationship to your parents,
or in your social life where you take so lightly the sanctity of the
body, you show what you are. Maybe some of you are involved in
fornication, in heavy petting, in looking at the kind of stuff on
television and in the cinema that feeds your lust, and yet you name the
name of Christ. You live in the hog pens and then go to the house of
God on Sunday. Shame on you! Leave your hog pens, your haunts of sin.
Leave your patterns and practices of fleshly and carnal indulgence.
Repentance is being sorry enough to quite your sin. You will never know
the forgiving mercy of God while you are still wedded to your sins.

Repentance is the soul's divorce from sin but it will always be
joined to faith. What is faith? Faith is the casting of the soul upon
Christ as he is offered to us in the gospel. Forsaking All I Take Him.

That is faith! "As many as received him, to them gave he the right
to become the sons of God, even to them that believe in his name" [John
1:12]. Faith is likened to drinking of Christ. In my soul-thirst I
drink of him. Faith is likened to looking to Christ. Faith is likened
to following Christ, fleeing to Christ. The Bible uses many analogies
and the sum of them all is this, that in the nakedness of my need I
cast myself upon the Savior, trusting him to be to me all that he has
promised to be to needy sinners.

Faith is taking nothing to Christ but an empty hand by which it
takes Christ and all that is in him. And what is in him? Full pardon
for all my sins! His perfect obedience is put to my account. His death
is counted as mine. And the gift of the Spirit is in him. Adoption,
sanctification and ultimately glorification are all in him, and faith,
in taking Christ, receives all that is in him. "But of him are ye in
Christ Jesus, whom God has made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and
sanctification and redemption" [1 Cor. 1:30].

What is a biblical Christian? A biblical Christian is a person who
has wholeheartedly complied with the divine terms for obtaining the
divine provision for sin. Those terms are repentance and faith. I like
to think of them as the hinge on which the door of salvation turns. The
hinge has two plates. One that is screwed to the door and the other
screwed to the door jam. They are held together by a pin and on that
hinge the door turns. Christ is that door, but none enter through him
who do not repent and believe, and there is no true hinge made up only
of repentance. A repentance that is not joined to faith is a legal
repentance. It terminates on yourself and on your sin.

A professed faith that is not joined to repentance is a spurious
faith, for faith is faith in Christ to save me, not in but from my sin.

Repentance and faith are inseparable, and except you repent you will
perish. He that believeth not shall be damned.

4. A BIBLE CHRISTIAN IS A PERSON WHO MANIFESTS IN HIS LIFE THAT HIS
CLAIMS TO REPENTANCE AND FAITH ARE REAL.

Paul said that he preached that men should repent and turn to God
and do works meet for, answering to, consistent with, repentance [Acts
26:20]. "By grace are you saved through faith, and that not of
yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should
boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good
works which God before ordained that we should walk in them" [Eph.
2:8-10]. Paul says in Galatians chapter 5, that faith works by love.

Wherever there is true faith in Christ there will always be
implanted genuine love to Christ and where there is love to Christ
there will always be obedience to Christ. True faith always works by
love, and what does it work? A life of obedience! "He that has my
commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me. He that loves me
not keeps not my sayings" [John 14:21-24]. We are not saved by loving
Christ, we are saved by trusting Christ, but a trust that produces no
love is not real.

True faith works by love, and that which love works is not the
ability to sit on a beautiful starlight night writing poetry about how
exiting it is to be a Christian. It works by causing you to go back
into that home and to obey your father and mother as the Bible tells
you to do, or back to that university campus to take a stand for truth
and righteousness against all the pressure of your peers. True faith
makes you willing and prepared to be counted a fool and crazy, willing
to be considered anachronistic, because you believe that there are
eternal, unchangeable, moral and ethical standards. You are willing to
believe in the sanctity of human life, and to take your stand against
pre-marital sex and the murdering of babies in mothers' wombs. For
Jesus said, "Whoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this
adulterous and sinful generation, of him shall the Son of man be
ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels"
[Mark 8:38]. What is a Bible Christian?

Not one who merely says, "Oh, yes, I know I am a sinner, with a bad
record and a bad heart. I know that God's provision for sinners is in
Christ and in his cross, adequate, freely offered to all, and I know it
comes to all who repent and believe." That is not enough. Do you
profess to repent and believe? Then can you make that profession stick,
not by a life of perfection but by a life of purposeful obedience to
Jesus Christ? "Not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter
the kingdom of heaven," Jesus said, "but he who is doing the will of my
Father who is in heaven" [Matt. 7:21]. In Hebrews 5:8 we read, "He
became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey him." And in
John 2:4, "He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments is
a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Can you make your claim to be a Christian stick from the Bible? Does your
life manifest the fruits of repentance and faith? Do you possess a life of
attachment to Christ, of obedience to Christ and confession of Christ? Is
your behavior marked by adherence to the ways of Christ? Not perfectly - No!
Every day you must pray, "Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who
trespass against us." But you can also say, "For me to live is Christ," or
"Jesus I my cross have taken. All to leave and follow thee. The world behind
me, the cross before me, I have decided to follow Jesus." That is what a
true Christian is. How many of us are real Christians? I leave the answer in
the deep chambers of your own mind and heart. But, remember, answer with an
answer that you will be prepared to live with for eternity. Be content with
no answer but that which will find you comfortable in the death and safe in
the day of judgement.

.
User: "Mark T moi@ere48"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 10 Jul 2007 09:45:30 PM
"Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> wrote:

Is this guy nuts?

Probably. ;-)

Before a person can become a "Christian" they
must first confess Jesus as Lord and believe in their heart that God
raised Jesus from the dead (Rom 10:9)

Only according to Paul who never met the historical Jesus of Nazareth.

Getting saved is not confessing sins; but confessing the Savior from sin.

Not according to the bible ............
"Look unto Me [YAHWEH], and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I
[YAHWEH] am God, and there is none else [INCLUDING JESUS OF NAZARETH]."
Isaiah 45:21

1Jn 1:7-10 KJV

Written 90 -120 CE. when the apostle John was dead. Are forgeries the "word
of God"?
--
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A CHRISTUS OBNOXIUM
.... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:
'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.
Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.
And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'
Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
User: "RedFox"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 11 Jul 2007 03:48:14 AM
In article <46944446$2@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, "Mark T" <moi@ere48> wrote:

DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A CHRISTUS OBNOXIUM

... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:

'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.

Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.

And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'

Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178


"I find myself generally in agreement with the criticisms of organized
religion, including Christianity, leveled by Richard Dawkins and Sam
Harris.
Their biggest problem is not their criticism, which I find quite accurate,
but that the Christianity they reject is a very poor representation of
what Christianity was meant to be. It is because they know no other
Christianity than this popular expression, they believe that atheism is
the only viable alternative to the Christianity they have known and
rejected.
They have never explored the essence of Christianity because that essence
lives in such tiny and hidden places.
I think the theism of popular Christianity is dying and that is why many
people think Christianity is dying. The idea that God is a supernatural
being, who inhabits outer space somewhere and who occasionally intervenes
in this world in miraculous ways, is not a credible concept to me. Since
this is the only concept of God that many people can imagine, they see
atheism as the only viable alternative. Nothing reveals better the
bleakness of so much of contemporary Christianity.
I am a believer who is not a theist.
Some people mistakenly assume that an atheist is the same thing as a
non-theist. Nothing could be further from the truth. If anything, I am a
god-intoxicated human being, perhaps even a mystic. I experience God as
'Other,' as 'Transcendence,' as 'Depth,' and as the ultimate meaning of
life. I believe that humanity and divinity are not separate categories,
but represent the eternal spectrum of human experience. Divinity is the
depth dimension of humanity.
I see this God presence lived out in the human life of Jesus of Nazareth.
I search the Scriptures to find images of God that transcend the theistic
images of the childhood of our humanity; the old man in the sky with the
magic power that permeated primitive religious thought. I find it in the
unwillingness of the ancient Jewish writers of our sacred story to have
the name of God spoken by human lips since no human mind can embrace the
reality of God sufficiently to speak the divine name.
I see it in the Jewish commandment that we are never to make an image of
God since nothing made with human hands or constructed by the human mind
can finally be big enough to capture the Holy God.
Yet religious people constantly think that the human creations of
scripture, creeds and doctrines have somehow embraced the wonder of the
holy. These are nothing more, however, than verbal "graven images." I find
the Bible in some places is reduced to defining God in impersonal images
because the personal ones become so false when literalized. So God is
defined in what I call the minority voices of the Bible as like unto the
wind, the rock and even as the power and source of love.
When human beings talk about God, all they are really doing is talking
about their human experience of God. When that truth is faced, certainty
of expression disappears but the experience of God does not. I wish not
only that the people at BeliefNet, but also most religious reporters in
our newspapers and above all the radio preachers, were aware of and could
embrace that human limitation."
-- John Shelby Spong
.

User: "john w"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 11 Jul 2007 02:30:02 AM
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:45:30 +1000, "Mark T" <moi@ere48> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

"Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> wrote:

Is this guy nuts?


Probably. ;-)


Before a person can become a "Christian" they
must first confess Jesus as Lord and believe in their heart that God
raised Jesus from the dead (Rom 10:9)


Only according to Paul who never met the historical Jesus of Nazareth.

Actually, Paul / Saul DID meet the historical Jesus on the road to
Damascus!
It's amusing how so many REJECT so much of the Bible, but ACCEPT
those stories that they think they can use to discredit the rest!
tsk tsk
If you don't believe the Bible, you can't then use it to disprove it!
john w



Getting saved is not confessing sins; but confessing the Savior from sin.


Not according to the bible ............

"Look unto Me [YAHWEH], and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I
[YAHWEH] am God, and there is none else [INCLUDING JESUS OF NAZARETH]."
Isaiah 45:21


1Jn 1:7-10 KJV


Written 90 -120 CE. when the apostle John was dead. Are forgeries the "word
of God"?


--
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A CHRISTUS OBNOXIUM

... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:

'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.

Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.

And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'

Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178

.
User: "Mark T moi@ere52"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 11 Jul 2007 03:11:52 AM
"john w @yahoo.com>" wroteth:

© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

*****!

Paul who never met the historical Jesus of Nazareth.


Actually, Paul / Saul DID meet the historical Jesus on the road to
Damascus!

No, that was a VISION / DREAM. Read ya bible!

If you don't believe the Bible, you can't then use it to disprove it!

Why????
Jesus said in Matthew 5:42, "Give to him that asketh thee, and from
him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." May I have your house
and car and may I borrow your most prized possession?
--
BIBLE - the Fundamentalist Golden Calf which comes in a Trew Kristyun
version that you can supersize with added fries (in Hell).
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
.
User: "Greg grandall11@optusnetdotcomdotau"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 11 Jul 2007 06:08:20 AM
"Mark T" <moi@ere52> wrote in message news:469490c6@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

"john w @yahoo.com>" wroteth:


Actually, Paul / Saul DID meet the historical Jesus on the road to
Damascus!



No, that was a VISION / DREAM. Read ya bible!

Where exactly does the Bible say it was a vision /dream ?
How did the Vision/dream that you claim make Paul blind and result in all
that followed, Please explain.
Greg

If you don't believe the Bible, you can't then use it to disprove it!


Why????

Jesus said in Matthew 5:42, "Give to him that asketh thee, and from
him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." May I have your house
and car and may I borrow your most prized possession?

--
BIBLE - the Fundamentalist Golden Calf which comes in a Trew Kristyun
version that you can supersize with added fries (in Hell).


--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/

FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.

My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall


.
User: "RedFox"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 11 Jul 2007 04:57:09 PM
In article <4694ba1a$0$13845$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Greg"
<grandall11@optusnet(dot)com(dot)au> wrote:

"Mark T" <moi@ere52> wrote in message news:469490c6@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

"john w @yahoo.com>" wroteth:



Actually, Paul / Saul DID meet the historical Jesus on the road to
Damascus!



No, that was a VISION / DREAM. Read ya bible!


Where exactly does the Bible say it was a vision /dream ?
How did the Vision/dream that you claim make Paul blind and result in all
that followed, Please explain.


Greg

Paul is such a liar that it is very difficult to know if he really did go
blind. It is also very difficult to know to what extent Paul's life has
been mythologised by the time his story appears in Acts
Paul himself may well have only referred to his teachings as based on
"revelations" and the Damascus Road story added to the text of his
supposed letters - and to the Acts story - at a later date, long after
Paul's death
What is obvious is that in the first and second centuries a mythmaking
process took place that overlaid the original beliefs of the followers of
Jesus - the Jesus movements - resulting in it being very hard to say if
Jesus himself even existed or if Paul is correctly portrayed
What does seem certain however, is that the troubled man we know as Paul
was originally a vicious persecutor, responsible for serial killings of
christians by abuse of the legal processes of the Roman Empire
Such a man is not to be believed when he claims special relationship with
Jesus and the role of Great Apostle
After letting such a killer mouth off to his hearts content, an American
executioner would still administer the lethal injection - pull the switch
- or drop the gas pellets.
nuff said.
.


User: "john w"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 11 Jul 2007 06:09:54 AM
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:11:52 +1000, "Mark T" <moi@ere52> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

"john w @yahoo.com>" wroteth:

© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.


*****!


Paul who never met the historical Jesus of Nazareth.


Actually, Paul / Saul DID meet the historical Jesus on the road to
Damascus!



No, that was a VISION / DREAM. Read ya bible!


If you don't believe the Bible, you can't then use it to disprove it!


Why????

Why can't you pour sand in your gas tank?
Because it doesn't work!
john w

Jesus said in Matthew 5:42, "Give to him that asketh thee, and from
him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." May I have your house
and car and may I borrow your most prized possession?

--
BIBLE - the Fundamentalist Golden Calf which comes in a Trew Kristyun
version that you can supersize with added fries (in Hell).

.


User: "RedFox"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 11 Jul 2007 04:40:33 PM
In article <n419931ons0uk6joebr8tas945ehmjlgqg@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:

If you don't believe the Bible, you can't then use it to disprove it!

john w

Actually yes you can
You use the contradictions
The onus of proof is not on those who disbelieve in the idea of an
inerrant, literally true Bible - it is on those who claim it is historical
and without error
To my mind such people abuse the Bible and are a stain on Christian culture
===============
"The Bible is not the private property of the Christian churches. The
biblical epic belongs to us all in the form of the Judeo-Christian
heritage......"
Quote
"The questions we now need to be asking ourselves are not whether
religions have cultural and social effect. We have seen enough in our
time, at home and around the world, to know that they do.
The questions will have to be much more critical with respect to the kinds
of effects different religions have had in the making of cultures.
We are just about ready to admit that different cultures are different and
that they do make a difference in the way people think, behave, and relate
to others.
If comparative cultural analysis is the order for the day, don't we as
Americans have to include our own myths and religions? And why not learn
how to evaluate cultures in the light of the social issues and global
horizons that challenge our times?
Why can't we learn to talk about religion and culture in public as we look
for ways to imagine and create the sane societies we desperately need in
our multicultural world?
If we want to do that, and I think we must, the taboo on the Bible that is
now in place will have to be broken.
The Bible is not the private property of the Christian churches. The
biblical epic belongs to us all in the form of the Judeo-Christian
heritage that is supposed to have given our nation its values and ethical
foundation.
The taboo is the sign that we all are complicit in the unacknowledged
agreement to let that story stand. It is time to find out whether we think
that wise. The only way to do that is to learn to talk openly in public
forum about religion, culture, and the Bible."
(Burton Mack - reparagraphed for clarity - from "Who Wrote The New Testament)
.

User: "RedFox"

Title: Re: What is a Biblical Christian? 11 Jul 2007 04:49:22 PM
In article <n419931ons0uk6joebr8tas945ehmjlgqg@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:45:30 +1000, "Mark T" <moi@ere48> wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

"Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> wrote:

Is this guy nuts?


Probably. ;-)


Before a person can become a "Christian" they
must first confess Jesus as Lord and believe in their heart that God
raised Jesus from the dead (Rom 10:9)


Only according to Paul who never met the historical Jesus of Nazareth.


Actually, Paul / Saul DID meet the historical Jesus on the road to
Damascus!

The BIBLICAL evidence is overwhelmingly against that assertion
The Bible makes it clear that the Damascus Road incident took place in the
presence of witnesses none of whom
a) heard a voice
b) saw Jesus appear in any form
The fact that such a damning piece of information appears in the Bible -
and is admitted by Paul himself - can ONLY mean that it is true - there
were no witnesses of a visitation to Paul by the Risen Jesus on the
Damascus Road
What Paul claims for the most part is revelations from the Risen Christ -
however he proceeds to try to shut down any other claims of genuine valid
revelations made by other people - lest they conflict with his own
How it got into the Bible I don't know - but the writers of the Bible
themselves clearly dropped the hint that Paul was a fraud and a liar
If we proceed from that realisation then we recognise that Paul also
informs us that the Eucharist ceremony was his own invention and that it
is likely that the rest of the relevant "revelation" was the Last Supper ,
betrayal and possibly even Crucifixion narrative
What we see in Paul is the process of pagan myth being imposed on the
beliefs of the "followers of the way" - the Jewish followers of Jesus of
Nazareth - a man whose supposed existence may in fact have been
mythological even to those followers.
Christianity is a myth that took over two hundred years of reworking to
create in its present form
.